The other good thing about another coalition with the Lib Dems is that we'd have another plebiscite on electoral reform, as that would be on one their red lines.
I can't wait for more discussions on electoral voting systems.
Off topic, I need some advice from PBers about poppies.
Every year, I end up with a new poppy, and post remembrance Sunday, I put my old poppy in an old tin, as throwing them in a bin seems disrespectful.
Now this tin is heaving, what should I do with these old poppies?
I buy a new one most days, as it feels like cheating to leave home already wearing one.
@Charles -- you know posh people who run stuff. Please get the Sainsbury's top brass to place the commendable "round up your bill for Poppies/Red Noses/whatever" button on the front of the system where the check-out till operators can actually find it without needing to call for help to navigate through three menu layers. Thanks in advance.
[Telegraph:] In public, the Liberal Democrats have said they will form a coalition, should it become necessary, with whichever party wins the most public support.
Unless I've missed the news the official LibDem position is a lot less clear than that. Their exact wording last time was something about the winner having the right to be the first to try to form a government, but: 1) They wouldn't clarify (despite being asked) whether that was seats or votes. 2) When this was tested in 2010 having the right to be the first to try to form a government turned out to mean being the first party they would negotiate with. It didn't stop them trying to cut a deal with Lab, or at least pretending to try to cut a deal with them to satisfy their base and/or extract more concessions from Con.
To be fair, it was Feb 1974 all over again. Whoever won that election, it was clear that the Tories had lost it. Likewise in 2010; Labour had lost
The parties that finished 2nd and 4th forming a government, that would be an abomination.
And lead to the spontaneous combustion of Paul Dacre?
You make that sound like a bad thing
Only from the point of view of his nearest and dearest. Which I am not.
Incidentally, Baxter leaves out the Nats and the Irish. SDLP would give Lab another 3, 5 SF wouldn't turn up. Scenario for a Lab minority methinks.
All parties have their serial rebels, would Ed really want to run a minority government with the likes of Diane Abbott and John McDonnell on the backbenches?
Neal Hudson @resi_analyst 54m ONS historic mortgage repayment affordability and the new #Help2Buy2 figures pic.twitter.com/71ZBEEvzoR
God help these people when interest rates rise, Cameron and Osbornes victims.
You need to understand that the majority of First time buyer loans on that timeframe will be interest only whereas HTB2 is only available as repayment.
If the interest rate goes up from say 4% to 6%, an interest only mortage payment increases by 50% whereas a 25 year repayment mortgage increases by 22%. Therefore, it is those on interest only mortgages that are more vulnerable to rate rises than those on HTB2.
I'll be watching the Panorama documentary with interest tonight to see if they understand this policy and its implications any better than you.
Looks brilliant - would drag us into the 21st century - once we have shot down the bird botherers and the usual anti-progress anti HS2 anti everything Ukip types.
@SeanT "I agree the Kipper vote is disconcertingly hard. Their supporters are ANGRY. Anger is the best motivator in politics"
I agree with that.
Unfortunately for the Tories, the anti-Tory left / centre is also ANGRY and motivated, and forms a solid 2010 Lib/Lab block that will see Miliband in No 10 if something doesn't change fairly dramatically.
Unfortunately for the Tories, the anti-Tory left / centre is also ANGRY and motivated, and forms a solid 2010 Lib/Lab block that will see Miliband in No 10 if something doesn't change fairly dramatically.
Not half as angry as they will be when they discover they've been conned by Miliband.
@SeanT "I agree the Kipper vote is disconcertingly hard. Their supporters are ANGRY. Anger is the best motivator in politics"
I agree with that.
Unfortunately for the Tories, the anti-Tory left / centre is also ANGRY and motivated, and forms a solid 2010 Lib/Lab block that will see Miliband in No 10 if something doesn't change fairly dramatically.
Oh dear all these angry middle class english people, they'll be refusing to say sorry the next time someone bumps into them. Where will it end ?
Populus @PopulusPolls 8m New Populus Voting Intention figures: Lab 39 (=); Cons 31 (-1); LD 11 (-1); UKIP 10 (+1); Oth 7 (-1) Tables here: http://popu.lu/s_vi111113
Still no sign of the issues exciting the PB Tories feeding through. The revolt over Falkirk and BBC licence fees can only be days away.
I discovered last night that Falkirk was in 2011 'voted' the prettiest town in Scotland.
Curious, don't you think?
I think the most profound thing I've ever read on here was the post last night likening Falkirk to Sarajevo.
Typically snide and stupid sarcasm.
Yesterday lots of responses here wrt Falkirk were along the lines of "most people have ever heard of that little town a long way away". Dr Foxinsoxuk commented, quite pertinently given that it was Remembrance Sunday, that that reaction was similar to the one that people would have had about Sarajevo, presumably when Archduke Ferdinand was killed though he didn't specify. The implication being that just because people haven't heard of the place and it's far away, it doesn't mean it won't become massively more significant.
BBC piece accidentally forgets to tell us about the Labour leadership.
BBC links to Her Majesty's Daily Telegraph which says: "More than half of the Cabinet, including David Cameron, the Prime Minister, George Osborne, the Chancellor, and Nick Clegg, the Deputy Prime Minister, are thought to have gone to private school and are independently very wealthy".
So maybe Sir John Major forgot to mention Labour in his speech, or maybe Labour no longer runs the country. Or both.
Though the Getelarph also says: "Similar concerns about social mobility were voiced by Michael Gove, the Education secretary who went to state school" but did not Gove go to Robert Gordon's in Scotland?
John Major was PM for seven years and did nothing to bring back grammar schools, the surest way of raising social mobility.
Looks brilliant - would drag us into the 21st century - once we have shot down the bird botherers and the usual anti-progress anti HS2 anti everything Ukip types.
It's brilliant - and too far away - and on the wrong side of London.
Just build the bloody 3rd runway at LHR. We all know that this is what will happen, eventually.
And everyone knows Boris will drop the while idea once he's got a constituency somewhere away from Heathrow anyway.
Heathrow is actually a serious asset. It is perfectly positioned on the west of London, where most Brits can reach it easiest (as much as they can reach any London airport). It's just off the M25 and M4, and it can be accessed from central London via fast reliable train in just 15 minutes.
It has also upped its game very impressively of late: check in is fast and smooth, security is swift and painless. I haven't encountered any passport queues for a while.
Build the new runways, allowing more slots and routes, and it could be the best airport in the world.
By your logic the new HK airport would have been built in the middle of TST.
Looks brilliant - would drag us into the 21st century - once we have shot down the bird botherers and the usual anti-progress anti HS2 anti everything Ukip types.
It's brilliant - and too far away - and on the wrong side of London.
Just build the bloody 3rd runway at LHR. We all know that this is what will happen, eventually.
And everyone knows Boris will drop the while idea once he's got a constituency somewhere away from Heathrow anyway.
Heathrow is actually a serious asset. It is perfectly positioned on the west of London, where most Brits can reach it easiest (as much as they can reach any London airport). It's just off the M25 and M4, and it can be accessed from central London via fast reliable train in just 15 minutes.
It has also upped its game very impressively of late: check in is fast and smooth, security is swift and painless. I haven't encountered any passport queues for a while.
Build the new runways, allowing more slots and routes, and it could be the best airport in the world.
Heathrow is loads better than it was going out (especially in T5); it's still pretty crap coming back - you always have to hold before you can land and the passport lines are pretty long - the longest outside of the US in my experience. But overall it's not bad at all. And definitely much easier for most people to get to than Gatwick or anything to the east of London.
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 19s No.10 confirms PM taking personal interest in NHS, with weekly reports on perf targets inc for A&E
Run for the hills, its a personal priority like the Big Society and Police Commissioners.
Changing the subject ? To be fair I initially thought it was your usual trolling - but now I'm beginning to think you are just a bit dim on the old economics front..
That same chart shows that house price growth in Britain is relatively modest (less than Germany, for example), it also shows that British house prices are not as overvalued as many others (e.g. France, Sweden).
Which rather undermines your endless assertions that there is some unsustainable bubble.
That's a chart for house prices since 1975, which shows that British property values have not regained losses incurred since the 2008 crash.
So what the F is your argument now?! That Osborne has deviously and cruelly engineered the first ever property price bubble which sees property prices flatlining? Are you accusing him of deliberately inflating house prices by making house prices stable? I know Osborne is clever but wow.
lol
Looking at the graphs, the only boom since the recession was between Q1 2009 and Q2 2010. Since then the prices have been drifting down / stable.
I fly a lot (as I know you do) but I haven't queued, seriously, for LHR passport checks, in ages. Maybe I've just been lucky? I also have IRIS and an e-Passport, which speeds things up.
Maybe I have been unlucky, but I always seem to have to wait for 20 minutes or more to get through, whereas elsewhere outside of the US it is much swifter - even in in China. Still, it's not a huge problem. Overall Heathrow is a lot better than it was and T5 is as good as anything around that I have seen. And the great news is that once I have done my flight to Singapore on Wednesday I will be a BA gold card holder - so I get access to first class lounges and a lot of priority stuff. I am unfeasibly excited.
That same chart shows that house price growth in Britain is relatively modest (less than Germany, for example), it also shows that British house prices are not as overvalued as many others (e.g. France, Sweden).
Which rather undermines your endless assertions that there is some unsustainable bubble.
If interest rates went back to normal levels, house prices would crash. By any measure they are at the high end of earning/price ratio. There's a danger that with current lax monetary policy and no real effort to deal with the supply problem we'll re-inflate the bubble (that never really burst). The other problem with a housing market like ours is it discourages banks from looking for returns from productive lending.
I don't always agree with Benedict Brogan, but he's got good contacts in the Tory party. He mentions today how a lot of Tory MPs are pretty worried by the direction of the economy (boosting house prices, lax monetary policy, continuing large government borrowing and paltry investment) but if it'll win them the 2015 election, then so be it - just deal with the problems afterwards.
That same chart shows that house price growth in Britain is relatively modest (less than Germany, for example), it also shows that British house prices are not as overvalued as many others (e.g. France, Sweden).
Which rather undermines your endless assertions that there is some unsustainable bubble.
That's a chart for house prices since 1975, which shows that British property values have not regained losses incurred since the 2008 crash.
So what the F is your argument now?! That Osborne has deviously and cruelly engineered the first ever property price bubble which sees property prices flatlining? Are you accusing him of deliberately inflating house prices by making house prices stable? I know Osborne is clever but wow.
lol
I think you're underestimating Tim here by referring to flatlining. If you use the 'percentage change' tab and set the starting point to Q2 2010, it shows that UK prices in real terms have fallen by 11.6% under Osborne's watch, faster than both the US and Japan.
There is no way Sky can risk its PL coverage, so you can expect a huge upswing in the price it pays for its next deal. As a result, I'd expect a few more Americans to be sniffing around for clubs. Number one target will be Tottenham Hotspur, but Everton and Newcastle may also benefit. Not so good for the fans though, as the Americans are much more sensible with their cash than the Roman and the Arabs.
Maybe I have been unlucky, but I always seem to have to wait for 20 minutes or more to get through, whereas elsewhere outside of the US it is much swifter - even in in China. Still, it's not a huge problem. Overall Heathrow is a lot better than it was and T5 is as good as anything around that I have seen. And the great news is that once I have done my flight to Singapore on Wednesday I will be a BA gold card holder - so I get access to first class lounges and a lot of priority stuff. I am unfeasibly excited.
Congratulations on your elevation, SO... Flyertalk is this way
and you can discuss the shocking abominations of the towels being a degree too hot while the Grand Siecle is a degree too cold to your heart's content.
FWIW I've been really impressed with T5 passport control lately - mostly travelling with a 6yo so electronic gates aren't an option, but I don't remember the last time I waited more than 10 minutes.
If interest rates went back to normal levels, house prices would crash. By any measure they are at the high end of earning/price ratio. There's a danger that with current lax monetary policy and no real effort to deal with the supply problem we'll re-inflate the bubble (that never really burst). The other problem with a housing market like ours is it discourages banks from looking for returns from productive lending.
I don't always agree with Benedict Brogan, but he's got good contacts in the Tory party. He mentions today how a lot of Tory MPs are pretty worried by the direction of the economy (boosting house prices, lax monetary policy, continuing large government borrowing and paltry investment) but if it'll win them the 2015 election, then so be it - just deal with the problems afterwards.
I don't think anybody is suggesting we're out of the mess yet, it can't be fixed in a few years.
The question is, would you want the people who got us into the mess back into office, when they haven't shown the slightest bit of contrition about what they have done?
That same chart shows that house price growth in Britain is relatively modest (less than Germany, for example), it also shows that British house prices are not as overvalued as many others (e.g. France, Sweden).
Which rather undermines your endless assertions that there is some unsustainable bubble.
That's a chart for house prices since 1975, which shows that British property values have not regained losses incurred since the 2008 crash.
So what the F is your argument now?! That Osborne has deviously and cruelly engineered the first ever property price bubble which sees property prices flatlining? Are you accusing him of deliberately inflating house prices by making house prices stable? I know Osborne is clever but wow.
lol
I think you're underestimating Tim here by referring to flatlining. If you use the 'percentage change' tab and set the starting point to Q2 2010, it shows that UK prices in real terms have fallen by 11.6% under Osborne's watch, faster than both the US and Japan.
bubbLOLe
11% is arguably not nearly enough. And its only this year that Osborne has started his help to buy scheme. The concern is where we are NOW heading. We are now seeing projections of large increases in house prices over the next five years, whilst the economy remains weak or weakish. That can't be good.
norman smith @BBCNormanS 8m No 10 say Govt looking at further steps to curb union "leverage" outside home of bosses @unitetheunion #grangemouth
Chris Mason @ChrisMasonBBC 3h No 10 this morning accused Labour of Mr Burnham of being " in danger of wishing there is going to be a crisis this winter."
"BBC pays seven times more to Labour MPs, figures show The corporation paid more than £32,000 in fees to Labour MPs whilst only shelling out £4,650 to their Tory counterparts in the past year"
Maybe I have been unlucky, but I always seem to have to wait for 20 minutes or more to get through, whereas elsewhere outside of the US it is much swifter - even in in China. Still, it's not a huge problem. Overall Heathrow is a lot better than it was and T5 is as good as anything around that I have seen. And the great news is that once I have done my flight to Singapore on Wednesday I will be a BA gold card holder - so I get access to first class lounges and a lot of priority stuff. I am unfeasibly excited.
Congratulations on your elevation, SO... Flyertalk is this way
and you can discuss the shocking abominations of the towels being a degree too hot while the Grand Siecle is a degree too cold to your heart's content.
FWIW I've been really impressed with T5 passport control lately - mostly travelling with a 6yo so electronic gates aren't an option, but I don't remember the last time I waited more than 10 minutes.
I do freely admit my gold card fixation is embarrassing. And I'll only have it a year. But I am excited. And pathetically grateful. Sad, but true.
If interest rates went back to normal levels, house prices would crash. By any measure they are at the high end of earning/price ratio. There's a danger that with current lax monetary policy and no real effort to deal with the supply problem we'll re-inflate the bubble (that never really burst). The other problem with a housing market like ours is it discourages banks from looking for returns from productive lending.
I don't always agree with Benedict Brogan, but he's got good contacts in the Tory party. He mentions today how a lot of Tory MPs are pretty worried by the direction of the economy (boosting house prices, lax monetary policy, continuing large government borrowing and paltry investment) but if it'll win them the 2015 election, then so be it - just deal with the problems afterwards.
I don't think anybody is suggesting we're out of the mess yet, it can't be fixed in a few years.
The question is, would you want the people who got us into the mess back into office, when they haven't shown the slightest bit of contrition about what they have done?
I think some people who want them back in office would reject your premise. More accurately, they would argue that the behaviour that got us into the mess was to focus on asset price inflation and allow wage attrition (relative to cost of living) in order to attract capital into the UK in the hope that that would somehow increase prosperity across the income scale; along, of course, with a giant global crisis caused by similar policies in other developed nations.
If choosing between a party who did that, but are now beginning to question whether it's a smart idea, and another party who appear focussed on doing the same thing only faster, and with aggressive attempts to remove the safety nets that sought to shield the poor from the worst consequences of the policy, you can see why such people might prefer Labour. Whilst not liking them very much, but nevertheless seeing them as the least worst option by far.
That same chart shows that house price growth in Britain is relatively modest (less than Germany, for example), it also shows that British house prices are not as overvalued as many others (e.g. France, Sweden).
Which rather undermines your endless assertions that there is some unsustainable bubble.
That's a chart for house prices since 1975, which shows that British property values have not regained losses incurred since the 2008 crash.
So what the F is your argument now?! That Osborne has deviously and cruelly engineered the first ever property price bubble which sees property prices flatlining? Are you accusing him of deliberately inflating house prices by making house prices stable? I know Osborne is clever but wow.
lol
Base rates are at 0.5% and prices are almost back to peak
No they're not. From your own link, in real terms, UK house prices are 26% below Q3 2007.
Whilst bank base rates are at 0.5%, mortgage rates for 90%+ (the danger zone) are at 3.5% plus. If the base rate doubles, their rate will increase by about 15% AND, as they are on repayment mortgages, the effect on the repayment is even less.
That same chart shows that house price growth in Britain is relatively modest (less than Germany, for example), it also shows that British house prices are not as overvalued as many others (e.g. France, Sweden).
Which rather undermines your endless assertions that there is some unsustainable bubble.
That's a chart for house prices since 1975, which shows that British property values have not regained losses incurred since the 2008 crash.
So what the F is your argument now?! That Osborne has deviously and cruelly engineered the first ever property price bubble which sees property prices flatlining? Are you accusing him of deliberately inflating house prices by making house prices stable? I know Osborne is clever but wow.
lol
I think you're underestimating Tim here by referring to flatlining. If you use the 'percentage change' tab and set the starting point to Q2 2010, it shows that UK prices in real terms have fallen by 11.6% under Osborne's watch, faster than both the US and Japan.
bubbLOLe
11% is arguably not nearly enough. And its only this year that Osborne has started his help to buy scheme. The concern is where we are NOW heading. We are now seeing projections of large increases in house prices over the next five years, whilst the economy remains weak or weakish. That can't be good.
The concensus is not for large increases in house prices outside of London, where the increases are totally unconnected to HTB2
No they're not. From your own link, in real terms, UK house prices are 26% below Q3 2007.
And of course the fall is much bigger than that outside London. HelpToBuy2 is helping people to buy.... mainly outside London.
This is about stabilising a falling market which has been plagued by excessively low transaction volumes, and which in turn has a knock-on effect on lots of other sectors of the economy.
Of course, if some future Labour Chancellor were stupid enough to keep it going too long, HelpToBuy could become a problem. But it's not a problem at the moment - quite the reverse.
11% is arguably not nearly enough. And its only this year that Osborne has started his help to buy scheme. The concern is where we are NOW heading. We are now seeing projections of large increases in house prices over the next five years, whilst the economy remains weak or weakish. That can't be good.
Its a shame that Labour pumped up house prices by almost 8% between 2009 and 2010. Just think how affordable houses could have been.
No they're not. From your own link, in real terms, UK house prices are 26% below Q3 2007.
And of course the fall is much bigger than that outside London. HelpToBuy2 is helping people to buy.... mainly outside London.
This is about stabilising a falling market which has been plagued by excessively low transaction volumes, and which in turn has a knock-on effect on lots of other sectors of the economy.
Of course, if some future Labour Chancellor were stupid enough to keep it going too long, HelpToBuy could become a problem. But it's not a problem at the moment - quite the reverse.
House prices may be below their peak but they are still well above the long-run average as a proportion of incomes. Which is a very surprising position for them to be in after the longest and deepest recession since the war. In the mid-90s, after the last recession, they were substantially below the long-run average.
I fly a lot (as I know you do) but I haven't queued, seriously, for LHR passport checks, in ages. Maybe I've just been lucky? I also have IRIS and an e-Passport, which speeds things up.
Maybe I have been unlucky, but I always seem to have to wait for 20 minutes or more to get through, whereas elsewhere outside of the US it is much swifter - even in in China. Still, it's not a huge problem. Overall Heathrow is a lot better than it was and T5 is as good as anything around that I have seen. And the great news is that once I have done my flight to Singapore on Wednesday I will be a BA gold card holder - so I get access to first class lounges and a lot of priority stuff. I am unfeasibly excited.
Congrats. Putting up wth all the previous long haul stuff suddenly gets worth it.
Bangkok Airport has a special immigration channel for the over 70's. It was rather satisfying to be directed away from it the other day, until we saw the length of the standard queue and promptly sought our privileges! It's a very short queue usually, for over 70's, pregnant women, those with v small children and monks!
"Property prices reach £247k in August surpassing 2008 peak First-time buyers now paying prices 4.9% higher than same time last year House prices in August 2011 were £218k - almost £30k lower"
No they're not. From your own link, in real terms, UK house prices are 26% below Q3 2007.
And of course the fall is much bigger than that outside London. HelpToBuy2 is helping people to buy.... mainly outside London.
This is about stabilising a falling market which has been plagued by excessively low transaction volumes, and which in turn has a knock-on effect on lots of other sectors of the economy.
Of course, if some future Labour Chancellor were stupid enough to keep it going too long, HelpToBuy could become a problem. But it's not a problem at the moment - quite the reverse.
House prices may be below their peak but they are still well above the long-run average as a proportion of incomes. Which is a very surprising position for them to be in after the longest and deepest recession since the war. In the mid-90s, after the last recession, they were substantially below the long-run average.
People like you and tim who moan (unjustifiably, if you're outside London) about house price increases might like to suggest what they'd prefer. Would it be better if prices were still plumetting, as in Italy, Portugal, Greece and Spain? Would that be better for confidence and the economy? Perhaps a cross reference with the GDP growth stats, and unemployment rates, for these nations, would clarify things.
But stoking up the market with a flood of cheap credit cannot be wise. In my view interest-only borrowing should not be permissible on residential property - it stacks the market in favour of buy-to-let landlords as it is now virtually impossible for people who actually want to live in the property they are buying to get an interest-only loan.
It is undoubtedly the case that house prices in Leamington Spa and surrounds, so not London, are now higher than they have ever been. Wages are not rising at a similar pace. Because of Help to Buy and very low interest rates this is not currently a problem. However, it could certainly become one if wages do not start rising, but interest rates do.
I don't think anybody is suggesting we're out of the mess yet, it can't be fixed in a few years.
The question is, would you want the people who got us into the mess back into office, when they haven't shown the slightest bit of contrition about what they have done?
. Whilst not liking them very much, but nevertheless seeing them as the least worst option by far.
So Labour are gonna halt immigration, are they? We won't go back to the free for all of the noughties, importing cheap workers? How are they going to do that - quit the EU? Are they going to impose more draconian visa and migration rules than the Tories?
For many, Labour will never be forgiven for opening the immigration floodgates, an inundation which probably impacted more on working class living standards than anything any government has done since 1945.
They show no real signs of remorse for this, nor any plans for not repeating the tragic mistakes.
Leaving aside that there's not unanimity about the cause/effect going on here, it's not a dividing line between the parties. It's a function of free movement of labour in an economic union area which both Labour and the Tories are going to retain in its present form. The Tories would have to shift massively to the left of their current neo-lib stance before it was really questioned, as opposed to posturing to appease the backbenchers.
If you're arguing that it might be rational for Labour voters to migrate en masse to UKIP well, yeah, there's a certain logic to that (even leaving immigration aside, wouldn't UKIP be considered to the left of Labour on some economic issues?)
It is undoubtedly the case that house prices in Leamington Spa and surrounds, so not London, are now higher than they have ever been. Wages are not rising at a similar pace. Because of Help to Buy and very low interest rates this is not currently a problem. However, it could certainly become one if wages do not start rising, but interest rates do.
True around this part of Manchester / Cheshire too. We're seeing signs of gentrification outside the posh bits. Presumably this is a good sign.
The Tories make their contempt for the trades union movement absolutely clear at all times. While they are so obviously and openly opposed to what has always been a pillar of white working class culture in this country, they'll struggle to win WWC votes - and the further north they go from London the more so this will be. Unite has more members in the private sector than in the public - though many members of the WWC do, of course, work in the public sector, something else that the Tories have made plain they thoroughly dislike.
The Tories make their contempt for the trades union movement absolutely clear at all times. While they are so obviously and openly opposed to what has always been a pillar of white working class culture in this country, they'll struggle to win WWC votes - and the further north they go from London the more so this will be. Unite has more members in the private sector than in the public - though many members of the WWC do, of course, work in the public sector, something else that the Tories have made plain they thoroughly dislike.
As a Tory, I hereby declare myself "intensely relaxed" at the party being on the side of employer's wives and children being intimidated by union goons. Surely even Ed isn't daft enough to put himself on the wrong side of this one. Is he?
The Tories make their contempt for the trades union movement absolutely clear at all times. While they are so obviously and openly opposed to what has always been a pillar of white working class culture in this country, they'll struggle to win WWC votes - and the further north they go from London the more so this will be. Unite has more members in the private sector than in the public - though many members of the WWC do, of course, work in the public sector, something else that the Tories have made plain they thoroughly dislike.
As a Tory, I hereby declare myself "intensely relaxed" at the party being on the side of employer's wives and children being intimidated by union goons. Surely even Ed isn't daft enough to put himself on the wrong side of this one. Is he?
I doubt any politician - or any decent person - would condone such behaviour. My point was about general Tory mood music on unions and the public sector. Neither is going to be hugely appealing to white working class voters (or working class voters of any other colour for that matter), even if it does strike a nerve in other parts of the electorate.
The Tories make their contempt for the trades union movement absolutely clear at all times. While they are so obviously and openly opposed to what has always been a pillar of white working class culture in this country, they'll struggle to win WWC votes - and the further north they go from London the more so this will be. Unite has more members in the private sector than in the public - though many members of the WWC do, of course, work in the public sector, something else that the Tories have made plain they thoroughly dislike.
The problem is, what should we do with the following people? Ignore them?
My mother (aged 77 and retired from part time work / bringing up five or six children) My mother in law (aged 78, retired, ex housewife) My gardener The guy who runs the corner shop
The Tories make their contempt for the trades union movement absolutely clear at all times. While they are so obviously and openly opposed to what has always been a pillar of white working class culture in this country, they'll struggle to win WWC votes - and the further north they go from London the more so this will be. Unite has more members in the private sector than in the public - though many members of the WWC do, of course, work in the public sector, something else that the Tories have made plain they thoroughly dislike.
Don't you think Labour will also struggle to get WWC votes?
They have treated the WWC with utter contempt and will be punished for taking their support for granted.
I doubt any politician - or any decent person - would condone such behaviour. My point was about general Tory mood music on unions and the public sector. Neither is going to be hugely appealing to white working class voters (or working class voters of any other colour for that matter), even if it does strike a nerve in other parts of the electorate.
As someone who was intimidated in the 70s (at school) and 80s (working in the South Yorks coalfield area and going to work), I would be supportive of a party that cracked down on hooligan behaviour.
Why wouldn't the Tory views appeal to such people?
The Tories make their contempt for the trades union movement absolutely clear at all times. While they are so obviously and openly opposed to what has always been a pillar of white working class culture in this country, they'll struggle to win WWC votes - and the further north they go from London the more so this will be. Unite has more members in the private sector than in the public - though many members of the WWC do, of course, work in the public sector, something else that the Tories have made plain they thoroughly dislike.
Don't you think Labour will also struggle to get WWC votes?
They have treated the WWC with utter contempt and will be punished for taking their support for granted.
Swings to Labour comparing todays Populus with 2010 voting are highest among C1s at 10% and C2's at 8.5% Of course in PB Toryworld this isn't happening..
I'm not a Tory and have never voted Tory, I'm just a realist.
"Labour should “apologise” for its poor record of building social housing, the party’s own London housing spokesman has said.
Tom Copley said it galled him that Margaret Thatcher’s government built more council flats and houses in a single year than Tony Blair and Gordon Brown managed over 13 years in power.
His remarks were attacked as too “bleak” by one of Labour leader Ed Miliband’s top lieutenants. But the Coalition Government’s housing minister said Mr Copley was right and called on Mr Miliband to say sorry."
"Labour should “apologise” for its poor record of building social housing, the party’s own London housing spokesman has said.
Tom Copley said it galled him that Margaret Thatcher’s government built more council flats and houses in a single year than Tony Blair and Gordon Brown managed over 13 years in power.
His remarks were attacked as too “bleak” by one of Labour leader Ed Miliband’s top lieutenants. But the Coalition Government’s housing minister said Mr Copley was right and called on Mr Miliband to say sorry."
Margaret Thatcher’s government built more council flats and houses in a single year than Tony Blair and Gordon Brown managed over 13 years in power.
20 weeks in jail for trying to hang a cat ? This is exactly why British jails are so overcrowded, custodial sentences for things that really don't merit them. I realise trying to hang a cat is not a very nice thing to do but a 20 week prison sentence ? Sentence him to 6 weeks unpaid voluntary work at a cat sanctuary for goodness sake. What a waste of taxpayers money.
Off topic, I need some advice from PBers about poppies.
Every year, I end up with a new poppy, and post remembrance Sunday, I put my old poppy in an old tin, as throwing them in a bin seems disrespectful.
Now this tin is heaving, what should I do with these old poppies?
I buy a new one most days, as it feels like cheating to leave home already wearing one.
@Charles -- you know posh people who run stuff. Please get the Sainsbury's top brass to place the commendable "round up your bill for Poppies/Red Noses/whatever" button on the front of the system where the check-out till operators can actually find it without needing to call for help to navigate through three menu layers. Thanks in advance.
My supermarket contacts are all from the previous generation I'm afraid. I could mention it to Peter Davis if you want, but he's unlikely to want to micromanage to that level of detail
20 weeks in jail for trying to hang a cat ? This is exactly why British jails are so overcrowded, custodial sentences for things that really don't merit them. I realise trying to hang a cat is not a very nice thing to do but a 20 week prison sentence ? Sentence him to 6 weeks unpaid voluntary work at a cat sanctuary for goodness sake. What a waste of taxpayers money.
I don't know where you get your morals from Hortence, I would have given him a year in solitary. It's not just the hanging of a cat from a shed beam but the stealing of a neighbours property and pet to commit murder of a loved animal.
Looks brilliant - would drag us into the 21st century - once we have shot down the bird botherers and the usual anti-progress anti HS2 anti everything Ukip types.
It's brilliant - and too far away - and on the wrong side of London.
Just build the bloody 3rd runway at LHR. We all know that this is what will happen, eventually.
And everyone knows Boris will drop the while idea once he's got a constituency somewhere away from Heathrow anyway.
Heathrow is actually a serious asset. It is perfectly positioned on the west of London, where most Brits can reach it easiest (as much as they can reach any London airport). It's just off the M25 and M4, and it can be accessed from central London via fast reliable train in just 15 minutes.
It has also upped its game very impressively of late: check in is fast and smooth, security is swift and painless. I haven't encountered any passport queues for a while.
Build the new runways, allowing more slots and routes, and it could be the best airport in the world.
Heathrow is loads better than it was going out (especially in T5); it's still pretty crap coming back - you always have to hold before you can land and the passport lines are pretty long - the longest outside of the US in my experience. But overall it's not bad at all. And definitely much easier for most people to get to than Gatwick or anything to the east of London.
I fly a lot (as I know you do) but I haven't queued, seriously, for LHR passport checks, in ages. Maybe I've just been lucky? I also have IRIS and an e-Passport, which speeds things up.
The last 3 trips I've had (all last week, so maybe it was a specific problem) have been a nightmare with queues back into the hall. And which idiot closed IRIS - it was great.
But JFK, is and remains the worst airport for immigration. Except LAX.
The Tories make their contempt for the trades union movement absolutely clear at all times. While they are so obviously and openly opposed to what has always been a pillar of white working class culture in this country, they'll struggle to win WWC votes - and the further north they go from London the more so this will be. Unite has more members in the private sector than in the public - though many members of the WWC do, of course, work in the public sector, something else that the Tories have made plain they thoroughly dislike.
They repeatedly say that they think the trade union members are great, but led by idiots.
20 weeks in jail for trying to hang a cat ? This is exactly why British jails are so overcrowded, custodial sentences for things that really don't merit them. I realise trying to hang a cat is not a very nice thing to do but a 20 week prison sentence ? Sentence him to 6 weeks unpaid voluntary work at a cat sanctuary for goodness sake. What a waste of taxpayers money.
I don't know where you get your morals from Hortence, I would have given him a year in solitary. It's not just the hanging of a cat from a shed beam but the stealing of a neighbours property and pet to commit murder of a loved animal.
"Murder", "much loved" ? It's a cat for goodness sake, not some elderly relative. What next ? Mandatory 2 year sentences for accidental killings of goldfish ?
Hortence Withering: Obviously you are not a Christian nor a follower of any of the Judea-Christian religions. If you were, your would know "His eye is on the sparrow". I truly pity you, you sound an empty, sad person.
Hortence Withering: Obviously you are not a Christian nor a follower of any of the Judea-Christian religions. If you were, your would know "His eye is on the sparrow". I truly pity you, you sound an empty, sad person.
Comments
Incidentally, Baxter leaves out the Nats and the Irish. SDLP would give Lab another 3, 5 SF wouldn't turn up. Scenario for a Lab minority methinks.
I can't wait for more discussions on electoral voting systems.
Who can forget the great discussions on AV on pb?
http://testrad.co.uk/
@Charles -- you know posh people who run stuff. Please get the Sainsbury's top brass to place the commendable "round up your bill for Poppies/Red Noses/whatever" button on the front of the system where the check-out till operators can actually find it without needing to call for help to navigate through three menu layers. Thanks in advance.
If the interest rate goes up from say 4% to 6%, an interest only mortage payment increases by 50% whereas a 25 year repayment mortgage increases by 22%. Therefore, it is those on interest only mortgages that are more vulnerable to rate rises than those on HTB2.
I'll be watching the Panorama documentary with interest tonight to see if they understand this policy and its implications any better than you.
tim = Fraser Nelson. All hyperbole and no facts to back it up.
I agree with that.
Unfortunately for the Tories, the anti-Tory left / centre is also ANGRY and motivated, and forms a solid 2010 Lib/Lab block that will see Miliband in No 10 if something doesn't change fairly dramatically.
That's why the LibDems should steer well clear.
Yesterday lots of responses here wrt Falkirk were along the lines of "most people have ever heard of that little town a long way away". Dr Foxinsoxuk commented, quite pertinently given that it was Remembrance Sunday, that that reaction was similar to the one that people would have had about Sarajevo, presumably when Archduke Ferdinand was killed though he didn't specify. The implication being that just because people haven't heard of the place and it's far away, it doesn't mean it won't become massively more significant.
Is that too complicated for you?
I'm not terribly angry. Is there a party available for me?
Abba Reunion Mulled For Waterloo Anniversary
http://news.sky.com/story/1166561/abba-reunion-mulled-for-waterloo-anniversary
If gold or shares go up in price are we facing a credit bubble ?
What about chocolate or eggs ?
Please carry on highlighting the dearth of your point - it is very amusing.
Show us some figures on Uk credit or carry on being a tit.
It is a great airport and reached by train.
http://www.hongkongairport.com/eng/transport/map-of-hk.html
I fly a lot (as I know you do) but I haven't queued, seriously, for LHR passport checks, in ages. Maybe I've just been lucky? I also have IRIS and an e-Passport, which speeds things up.
Maybe I have been unlucky, but I always seem to have to wait for 20 minutes or more to get through, whereas elsewhere outside of the US it is much swifter - even in in China. Still, it's not a huge problem. Overall Heathrow is a lot better than it was and T5 is as good as anything around that I have seen. And the great news is that once I have done my flight to Singapore on Wednesday I will be a BA gold card holder - so I get access to first class lounges and a lot of priority stuff. I am unfeasibly excited.
I don't always agree with Benedict Brogan, but he's got good contacts in the Tory party. He mentions today how a lot of Tory MPs are pretty worried by the direction of the economy (boosting house prices, lax monetary policy, continuing large government borrowing and paltry investment) but if it'll win them the 2015 election, then so be it - just deal with the problems afterwards.
bubbLOLe
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/nov/11/bt-champions-league-deal-hits-bskyb-shares
There is no way Sky can risk its PL coverage, so you can expect a huge upswing in the price it pays for its next deal. As a result, I'd expect a few more Americans to be sniffing around for clubs. Number one target will be Tottenham Hotspur, but Everton and Newcastle may also benefit. Not so good for the fans though, as the Americans are much more sensible with their cash than the Roman and the Arabs.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club-446/
and you can discuss the shocking abominations of the towels being a degree too hot while the Grand Siecle is a degree too cold to your heart's content.
FWIW I've been really impressed with T5 passport control lately - mostly travelling with a 6yo so electronic gates aren't an option, but I don't remember the last time I waited more than 10 minutes.
The question is, would you want the people who got us into the mess back into office, when they haven't shown the slightest bit of contrition about what they have done?
“So let me send one clear message to the Daily Mail: This union is not retreating from leverage, or from the right to peaceful protest."
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/mccluskey-unite-will-never-be-browbeaten-by-crosby-cameron-or-the-daily-mail/
norman smith @BBCNormanS 8m
No 10 say Govt looking at further steps to curb union "leverage" outside home of bosses @unitetheunion #grangemouth
Chris Mason @ChrisMasonBBC 3h
No 10 this morning accused Labour of Mr Burnham of being " in danger of wishing there is going to be a crisis this winter."
The corporation paid more than £32,000 in fees to Labour MPs whilst only shelling out £4,650 to their Tory counterparts in the past year"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10440821/BBC-pays-seven-times-more-to-Labour-MPs-figures-show.html
I must be having a bad run on passport control.
If choosing between a party who did that, but are now beginning to question whether it's a smart idea, and another party who appear focussed on doing the same thing only faster, and with aggressive attempts to remove the safety nets that sought to shield the poor from the worst consequences of the policy, you can see why such people might prefer Labour. Whilst not liking them very much, but nevertheless seeing them as the least worst option by far.
Whilst bank base rates are at 0.5%, mortgage rates for 90%+ (the danger zone) are at 3.5% plus. If the base rate doubles, their rate will increase by about 15% AND, as they are on repayment mortgages, the effect on the repayment is even less.
This is about stabilising a falling market which has been plagued by excessively low transaction volumes, and which in turn has a knock-on effect on lots of other sectors of the economy.
Of course, if some future Labour Chancellor were stupid enough to keep it going too long, HelpToBuy could become a problem. But it's not a problem at the moment - quite the reverse.
'Saving the convener's job' nearly cost 800 other employees their jobs at Grangemouth!
Its a shame that Labour pumped up house prices by almost 8% between 2009 and 2010. Just think how affordable houses could have been.
McFly and Busted announce tour plans as McBusted
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/news/a530304/mcfly-and-busted-announce-tour-plans-as-mcbusted.html
Congrats. Putting up wth all the previous long haul stuff suddenly gets worth it.
Bangkok Airport has a special immigration channel for the over 70's. It was rather satisfying to be directed away from it the other day, until we saw the length of the standard queue and promptly sought our privileges!
It's a very short queue usually, for over 70's, pregnant women, those with v small children and monks!
"If you strip the capital out of the equation, house prices increased by a smaller 2.1 per cent in the last 12 months across the UK"
I believe this morning's figures showed the vast majority of HTB2 applications were for properties outside of London.
Duff & Phelps has been appointed as administrator and said it was reviewing the firm's financial position, as well as seeking a sale of the business.
"At this stage redundancies and/or store closures cannot be ruled out," it said.
The shoe chain first went into administration in 2009.
Philip Duffy, Duff & Phelps partner, blamed "difficult trading conditions" for its most recent failure."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24899808
It would appear that retail like a lot of other markets is dividing into bottom end and middle/top end with the lower middle being squeezed.
http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/87974/sign_up_pro.html
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/unite-leader-len-mccluskey-expects-more-smears-1-3183323#.UoCL0NPWeKk.twitter
If you're arguing that it might be rational for Labour voters to migrate en masse to UKIP well, yeah, there's a certain logic to that (even leaving immigration aside, wouldn't UKIP be considered to the left of Labour on some economic issues?)
http://corporate.sky.com/investors/share_price
Ouch.
As a Tory, I hereby declare myself "intensely relaxed" at the party being on the side of employer's wives and children being intimidated by union goons. Surely even Ed isn't daft enough to put himself on the wrong side of this one. Is he?
The woes of Co-op Bank could lead to a phasing out of Co-op Group's financial support of Labour MPs http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24896749 …
I'm shocked...shocked..
My mother (aged 77 and retired from part time work / bringing up five or six children)
My mother in law (aged 78, retired, ex housewife)
My gardener
The guy who runs the corner shop
They have treated the WWC with utter contempt and will be punished for taking their support for granted.
Why wouldn't the Tory views appeal to such people?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-24899550
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/i-want-to-be-londons-first-black-mayor-says-tottenham-mp-david-lammy-8931769.html
"“I am thinking seriously about putting my hat into the ring to be Labour candidate for mayor in 2016."
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Angry-dog-walker-75-tips-poo-over-Cambridge-University-lecturer-for-cycling-too-close-to-her-by-the-Cambridgeshire-Guided-Busway-20131111055250.htm
I guess nothing much happened over the weekend ...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-should-apologise-for-social-housing-failure-8932797.html
"Labour should “apologise” for its poor record of building social housing, the party’s own London housing spokesman has said.
Tom Copley said it galled him that Margaret Thatcher’s government built more council flats and houses in a single year than Tony Blair and Gordon Brown managed over 13 years in power.
His remarks were attacked as too “bleak” by one of Labour leader Ed Miliband’s top lieutenants. But the Coalition Government’s housing minister said Mr Copley was right and called on Mr Miliband to say sorry."
Hardly a travesty - just a failure to understand the competition.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10440821/BBC-pays-seven-times-more-to-Labour-MPs-figures-show.html
I wonder how much Nigel Farrage was paid? Probably a fiver.
I just felt that deserved repeating.
It's not just the hanging of a cat from a shed beam but the stealing of a neighbours property and pet to commit murder of a loved animal.
But JFK, is and remains the worst airport for immigration. Except LAX.
But you only hear what you want to hear.
Obviously you are not a Christian nor a follower of any of the Judea-Christian religions. If you were, your would know "His eye is on the sparrow". I truly pity you, you sound an empty, sad person.