Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Blairites offer Ed some advice

SystemSystem Posts: 12,179
edited April 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Blairites offer Ed some advice

In recent weeks and days, the architects of Labour’s victories in 1997, 2001 and 2005 have been commenting upon the leadership of Ed Miliband and the broader approach of the party.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I am First?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Latest YouGov / The Sun results 15th April - CON 31%, LAB 39%, LD 12%, UKIP 12%; APP -30
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    edited April 2013
    YouGov

    On the question regarding the qualities of each party leader, the highest score for each leader is "None of these".

    Cameron is 46 (0)
    Miliband scores 51 (+1)
    Clegg scores 60 (+2)

    Surely a country in search of a leader who leads and is decisive and has a vision - a Churchill or a Thatcher?

    Edit:

    Scores for the quality; "a natural leader":

    Cameron: 12 (-2)
    Miliband: 5 (0)
    Clegg: 3 (-1)
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    edited April 2013
    "@TSEofPB The Blairties offer Ed some advice"

    I can see that the microphones are attached to Blair's tie, but is it really his neckwear offering Miliband advice? ;)
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    Is the TonyBlairFaithFoundation the Tony Blair "Faith Foundation" or the "Tony Blair Faith" Foundation?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Brent Crude at $99.5 in early trading - will there be a technical bounce?
  • Will there be a reduction at the pumps?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    OT

    My PB ads this morning are for Littlewoods dresses. Do they know something that I do not?
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    Whether you're a Blairite or not it's a genuine question as to whether Miliband can continue to offer very little apart from protest until closer to the election.

    Does he need set piece policies or photo-ops to show that he is different from Brown and Blair - and not just different from Cameron and Clegg?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    tim said:

    If there's anyone around who believes the next election will be fought on "Tory cuts vs Labour spending" as Mandelson warns then they deserve criticism.

    The next election will be fought on the Tories inability to cut and save money.

    The big area Blair got wrong, along with all govts over the last 35 years is housing, Miliband will make that the central plank of a growth and benefit cuts programme as the Tories offer an alternative of house price inflation and debt-fuelled growth coupled with a rising benefit bill.



    Please name which benefits will be cut and quantify the savings that will be made per annum.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    rEd knows best - how to win GEs, how to spend your money, why Hollande is great, what shops you need in town, how much bosses should be paid , where he can park and you can't etc etc etc....
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Just catching up on the Boston bombings - how absolutely awful, at 4hrs in - it will have hit the charity runners and their supporters hardest - what a totally harmless bunch if ever there was one. That only 3 are reported dead so far is remarkable, I gather its now 17 critically injured/many with limbs missing.

    And to think a group of people will be sat there this morning feeling pleased with themselves. Revolting.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    Financier said:

    OT

    My PB ads this morning are for Littlewoods dresses. Do they know something that I do not?

    Did you see the story this week about Facebook advertisers complaining about the unpleasant groups/pages their ads ended up on? It's quite an absurd complaint: the ads are all targeted at the user, not the page, so if my Internet usage makes their algorithm target me with nice charity adverts but I then choose to look at the "why Indian girls get raped" page, then it's my fault, not facebook's, that the ad ends up there. How are the advertisers or others complaining too dumb to see that?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,433
    @tim

    Ed will certainly talk about housing whether he'll actually do anything is another matter. For a start off where is he going to build the houses ? He'll not say before an election in case he scares the voters, and after an election "difficult decisions" will be the last thing he'll be wanting to make.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,433
    TGOHF said:

    rEd knows best - how to win GEs, how to spend your money, why Hollande is great, what shops you need in town, how much bosses should be paid , where he can park and you can't etc etc etc....

    Il Dorke a sempre raggione.
  • dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    tim said:



    The big area Blair got wrong, along with all govts over the last 35 years is housing, Miliband will make that the central plank of a growth and benefit cuts programme as the Tories offer an alternative of house price inflation



    If Miliband can sell house price deflation (or at least the deflating of the bubble) he'll be a fine politician indeed.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    What's going on here?

    RT @JackofKent: Lib Dem MPs will renege today on explicit manifesto commitment to make it harder for companies to sue for libel. Shameful. #LibelReform
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,838
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Financier, one can only assume the site has mistaken you for Mr/Miss Punter.
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    tim said:

    If there's anyone around who believes the next election will be fought on "Tory cuts vs Labour spending" as Mandelson warns then they deserve criticism.

    The next election will be fought on the Tories inability to cut and save money.

    The big area Blair got wrong, along with all govts over the last 35 years is housing, Miliband will make that the central plank of a growth and benefit cuts programme as the Tories offer an alternative of house price inflation and debt-fuelled growth coupled with a rising benefit bill.

    If Miliband can actually do something about housing then he will be popular with many who can't upgrade. It's one area where the government don't seem to be up to much.

    But where are they going to be built? And what about everyone else who owns and house and sees its value stagnate or even go down?
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    I'm not sure how Labour are going to persuade the electorate about the Tories inability to cut and save money, when they've spent their entire time in opposition moaning about cuts and savings.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    tim said:



    The big area Blair got wrong, along with all govts over the last 35 years is housing, Miliband will make that the central plank of a growth and benefit cuts programme as the Tories offer an alternative of house price inflation



    If Miliband can sell house price deflation (or at least the deflating of the bubble) he'll be a fine politician indeed.

    Location, location, location.

    Housing needs are greatest in the South East, not in unemployment hot spots. If people are not willing to migrate from South Wales and Merseyside to build them then we will have a plan that basically consists of:

    A government borrowing spree to provide east Europeans with work concreting over the green belt, followed by a collapse in house prices, negative equity and a second round of sub prime mortgage related banking crisis, inflation and the IMF.

    Its a great plan Tim.



  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    @tim - I see in today's yougov that Dave's 'problem' with women has got a whole lot less serious: the defecit to Labour is only 3%, compared to 11% among men.

    What does ICM say?
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    @foxinsoxuk and presumably the only way to avoid a collapse in house prices would be by keeping demand ahead of supply, ie by a massive increase in immigration which would most likely lead to a similar increase in benefit costs
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    tim said:

    ... high benefit spending is a product of three things - ageing population high rents and low pay.

    Don't disagree with that.

    SPA increased to 70+ for people born today
    More houses built on reclaimed land
    And i'm starting to come round to the idea of a living wage
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,433
    @ "living wage"

    do you think E Europeans need greater incentives to come to this country ? Might give us a housing problem.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Mid Term - Labour lead 6 points with ICM

    Smiles ....

    Titters ....

    LOL ....

    ROFLOL ....

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    @Tim: The extra large conservatory policy is, as you say, daft. It'll be interesting to see how much of a rebellion there is on granting councils an opt out. Otherwise the Tories will have annoyed another section of their diminishing band of supporters.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    As Nick Watts observed, a vacancy for 'Awkward former Prime Minister' has recently opened.....but I'm not sure if Ed will listen to Tone, as he appears to believe the 'centre ground has shifted left'. Whether this analysis will survive two more year's data from France, time will tell....

    Interesting Party internals in 'YouGov'. Taking 'Other' as a proxy for UKIP among UKIP supporters (well, at a guess its unlikely to be the Greens or SNP...) we see UKIP supporters are convinced of their policies on Europe and Immigration.....then get a lot less convinced on everything else:

    Which party best for (among VI)

    NHS
    Con: 73
    Lab: 85
    LibD: 55
    UKIP: 27

    Asylum/Immigration
    Con: 70
    Lab: 42
    LibD: 55
    UKIP: 73

    Laura Norder
    Con: 84
    Lab: 62
    LibD: 62
    UKIP: 48

    Education
    Con: 76
    Lab: 76
    LibD: 72
    UKIP: 29

    Tax
    Con: 81
    Lab: 71
    LibD: 71
    UKIP: 42

    Unemployment
    Con: 74
    Lab: 71
    LibD: 52
    UKIP: 34

    Economy in General
    Con: 86
    Lab: 71
    LibD: 60
    UKIP: 39

    Europe
    Con: 67
    Lab: 54
    LibD: 53
    UKIP: 76
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Let fratricide commence!

    James Chapman tweets: "I'm not sure how much he knows how the British public feel from 1st-class lounge at Heathrow,' Mili ally tells @rachelsylveste1 of Blair"
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    3 dead and more than 140 injured in Boston. Whoever did this intended to do very real harm.

    Curious that no-one has yet claimed responsibility, unless random terror is the aim.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,433
    @ Carlotta

    Friend Francois just keeps the good news coming, currently he's trying to work out how his latest 10 billion tax hike affects all the millionaires in his cabinet.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,375

    tim said:



    The big area Blair got wrong, along with all govts over the last 35 years is housing, Miliband will make that the central plank of a growth and benefit cuts programme as the Tories offer an alternative of house price inflation



    If Miliband can sell house price deflation (or at least the deflating of the bubble) he'll be a fine politician indeed.

    I have great doubt he could do much beyond run a bath, anybody who has high hopes on that donkey will be very disappointed indeed.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,433
    @ tim

    "Restricting housing supply as a way of keeping out immigrants.
    Probably the most stupid idea I've ever heard."

    really ? I'd always assumed that was Labour's policy, I mean in 13 years you let house price inflation rip and built two small bungalows wasn't that to keep people out ?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,375
    tim said:

    @dugarbandier

    Someone is going to have to.
    While the Tories fanny about with benefit caps (savings revised down to £110 million per annum and falling) this is where the big money is going

    The Office for Budget Responsibility is predicting further increases in housing benefit despite government attempts to cut the bill.

    The latest forecast from the independent monitoring body, issued alongside the Budget, has increased its predictions by £0.5 billion in 2013/14, £0.6 billion in 2014/5, £0.8 billion in 2015/16 and 2016/17, and £1 billion in 2017/18.

    The total rise of £3.7 billion over the five year period comes on top of a £2.3 billion increase in the OBR’s forecast in December released alongside the autumn statement.


    Along with benefits related to low pay.

    The Tories have missed their chance on growth,resorting to stoking up the housing market in desperation.

    They've missed their chance on cuts too, failing to see that high benefit spending is a product of three things - ageing population high rents and low pay.

    @TIM, You have a hard task trying to peddle that labour will fix any one of those 3 issues. They will be too busy raising benefits and borrowing to try and keep their vote onside.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    ""Particularly in respect of the Libor rigging scandal, it seems to me that we will not rebuild trust with the public or affect a culture change in finance until custodial sentences are imposed on those guilty of criminal wrongdoing in your sector."

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jail-dodgy-bankers-says-up-and-coming-labour-star-chuka-umunna-8574070.html

    Is it actually clear that under the Labour government's law at the time the LIBOR rigging was actually illegal, Chuk?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "For one thing, it has exposed the sham of “Labour Party unity”. Ed Miliband hasn’t united Labour – he gave it a shot of Valium. Traumatised by Iraq, the Blair/Brown psychodrama and electoral defeat, the party sought an escape from reality. Miliband’s soothing assurances that the political centre is drifting Left, and that victory only requires adherence to core Labour values, briefly provided it. But now the drugs are wearing off."

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100212294/blairite-barbs-expose-the-frailty-of-labour-unity/
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,433
    @ tim

    given I've been saying I believe immigration should be controlled for as long as I've posted on PB I'm surprised you need to ask.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Ed Miliband has been very lucky. No one has yet noticed that a Greek chorus has walked on stage, offering a commentary on the hero's actions, thanks to the audience's attention being fixed on tomorrow's funeral.

    This seems to have been a pretty concerted push, with Tony Blair, David Blunkett, Alan Milburn, Tessa Jowell, John Reid and Peter Mandelson all breaking cover in the last few days. Are we going to get regular commentaries from them, or is this a one-off? Time will tell.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "US President Barack Obama will snub Lady Thatcher’s funeral by failing to send a single senior member of his administration, The Sun can reveal."

    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4889740/President-Obama-snubs-Thatcher-funeral.html#ixzz2Qbjwd1Jo

    Cue outraged Republicans....
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,433
    @ tim

    I have an open mind on Europe, I'll wait to see what the arguments are.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    @tim can you appreciate the difference between migrants who come to this country with the means to settle and the skills to helpfully contribute to society, and those who come here knowing they'll be supported by the state? That's the kind of discrimination we need at our borders and how most conservatives I know would be happy with free movement of labour.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    You can tell that this was an important intervention, because Polly Toynbee devotes an entire column to how wrong the Blairites are:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/16/tony-blair-loose-horse-grand-national

    I like the metaphor.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited April 2013
    A Labour press release a day
    keeps the policies away.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,930
    I really don't see Ed wanting to take advice from Tone. The Blairite wing of the Labour party has almost left the field now and it is likely that such criticism will strengthen Ed's position with the party that remains rather than weaken it.

    What the Blairites do is highlight the policy vacuum at the heart of Labour. This is becoming a problem for them as people not that interested in politics get the clear impression that they are not being offered an alternative. If that impression becomes more widespread than it is now winning the election will be more difficult than it should be from Labour's current position of strength.

    The Blairites and not being helpful in that respect and it is not surprising Ed is a bit annoyed. But who's fault is it? "The blank sheet of paper" was always a hostage to fortune and the reluctance to write on it is now a problem.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,888
    This is an important and long-running saga that has got remarkably little press:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-22154860
    Major construction firms which set up a "systematic blacklist" of workers appear to be continuing to avoid taking full responsibility for their actions, according to a report by MPs.
    Such blacklisting is wrong on so many levels.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tim said:

    @foxinsox

    If you don't like the single market then campaign to get out.
    And as the HB bill is spent massively in London thats where you need building.Ask Boris.

    I don't think these plans, debated today will help mobility of labour or housing benefit

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22160532

    Extra large conservatories.
    Bloody idiots.

    No i am not a Ukipper. Indeed I may retire to the continent, perhaps Germany or Austria where healthcare is better and housing cheaper.

    My point is that house building in the South East will not create jobs for merseyside unless merseysiders move south. Either we create jobs where the people are, or move the unemployed to where the jobs are. A resettlement programme from the Welsh valleys and merseyside to new towns in the South East may work. Building in the South East without incentives for Britons in distressed regions to move there will do little good to either south or noryh.

    Like i said. Location, location, location.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Plato said:

    Just catching up on the Boston bombings - how absolutely awful, at 4hrs in - it will have hit the charity runners and their supporters hardest - what a totally harmless bunch if ever there was one. That only 3 are reported dead so far is remarkable, I gather its now 17 critically injured/many with limbs missing.

    And to think a group of people will be sat there this morning feeling pleased with themselves. Revolting.

    Two bombs and three dead. I fear the more revolting thing is that whoever is responsible might be feeling disappointed that they didn't kill more.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    @tim why should any of them be claiming JSA? And if they're working, do you have figures on how many claim working tax credits and/or housing benefit? Or how many of them are undercutting the minimum wage?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Such threads wouldn't be complete without the thoughts of Dan Hodges:

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100212294/blairite-barbs-expose-the-frailty-of-labour-unity/

    This is one of Dan Hodges' better articles. The article is worth reading for his reading of the motivations of the Blairites, even if you completely disagree with his opinions about Ed Miliband and his strategy.

    Two smart observations in particular:

    "There is no Blairite “Get Miliband” strategy. Just look at the confused nature of the criticism aimed at the Labour leader. John Reid urged him to toughen his stance on immigration. Blair, in contrast, warned him against a lurch to the Right. David Blunkett was alarmed at Labour playing off “the retired versus the young… the badly housed versus the homeless”. Blair argued that Miliband seems only too happy to avoid difficult policy choices in these areas.

    Tony’s former lieutenants may well be taking a lead from their ex-boss, but they’re not taking orders."

    "Blair has always favoured appropriation over confrontation. If he really believed Miliband was charting a course to political success, he wouldn’t be sabotaging it, he’d be claiming it as his own."
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    tim said:

    If there's anyone around who believes the next election will be fought on "Tory cuts vs Labour spending" as Mandelson warns then they deserve criticism.

    The next election will be fought on the Tories inability to cut and save money.

    The big area Blair got wrong, along with all govts over the last 35 years is housing, Miliband will make that the central plank of a growth and benefit cuts programme as the Tories offer an alternative of house price inflation and debt-fuelled growth coupled with a rising benefit bill.

    tim

    Osborne set two fiscal targets in 2010 as overriding government priorities. To balance the cyclically adjusted current budget (CACB), i.e. eliminate the 'structural deficit', within a five year rolling period and to see Public Sector Net Debt fall as a % of GDP within the 2015-16 fiscal year.

    A mid term snapshot forecast by the OBR shows the government on course for the first target and missing the second by two years. The March 2013 OBR forecast showed marginally improved deadlines for both targets over the previous December 2012 forecast so the official trend is improved performance albeit at a slow rate.

    The principal reason for Osborne extending the deadlines from those first forecast in 2010 has been the deteriorating outlook for global growth over the last three years, particularly within the Eurozone countries, the UK's principal export market.

    Lower growth outcomes have reduced UK government revenues. Yet government spending has been cut to plan and continues to fall in real terms. This means that despite falling revenues the government has been able to reduce Public Sector Net Borrowing (PSNB) in every year of this parliament. PSNB has already fallen by 33% and will continue to fall for the rest of this parliament.

    Even though UK growth has been below that forecast in 2010, it has been higher than all the large EU countries and the differential is increasing rather than reducing, In 2013, the Eurozone is forecast by the IMF to contract by 0.2% whereas the UK is forecast to grow by 0.9%.

    By any objective measure, the UK economy is performing better than its main competitors. Osborne has both "cut and saved money" contrary to your assertions. This means the 2015 Election will most definitely be fought on the ability not inability of the Tories to manage the economy.

    And so on to housing.

    The failure of all prior governments to increase the supply of housing to meet growing demand has been a constraint on economic growth. And yet it is also an opportunity for economic stimulus.

    It is the general policy of the Coalition government to rebalance the economy from public to private sector investment. This means, inter alia, shifting construction projects, where possible, from the responsibility of national and local governments to commercially financed private sector construction, ownership and management.

    The alternative of a massive publicly financed building programme for social housing would require substantial increases in public sector borrowing and incur all the systemic inefficiencies associated with state ownership and delivery.

    Not least of the adverse effects would be the risk of the UK's sovereign borrowing costs rising in response to the resultant reversal of current fiscal consolidation policies. With Public Sector Debt already so high the UK simply cannot afford to allow its borrowing costs to increase. Remember that the annual cost of servicing our current debt exceeds what we pay to defend our country.

    So Osborne is currently addressing the housing problem by creating conditions under which both demand for and supply of new house builds will be stimulated. Maintaining low interest rates, underwriting pricing risk, providing limited and short term equity loans, assisting bank supply of loans are all announced measures.

    We are likely to see further measures taken in connection with the recapitalisation of the banks with the BoE buying mortgage assets from the UK banks. This will have the dual benefit of bringing forward the sale of bank shares as well as freeing capital for lending to the construction sector.

    We have already seen small but positive reversal of trends in construction of private housing and provision of credit to first time buyers. This will now accelerate as Osborne's housing measures are implemented.

    The Tory solution to the housing problem is therefore increased private sector construction and financing. If Labour believe it lies the government borrowing more to finance a massive increase in council house builds then roll on the 2015 General Election debate,

    And on the role of Blair, I somewhat suspect he is far closer to Osborne on this issue than he is to Miliband and Balls.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    6pt lead isn't mid term - its 3 yrs into 5. rEd has less time left than he's been leader - not much time left to sell his vision of Paris on Thames.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    tim said:



    The big area Blair got wrong, along with all govts over the last 35 years is housing, Miliband will make that the central plank of a growth and benefit cuts programme as the Tories offer an alternative of house price inflation



    If Miliband can sell house price deflation (or at least the deflating of the bubble) he'll be a fine politician indeed.

    The number of owner occupiers is in decline, while the number of private renters increases. The 2011 figures are:

    Owner occupiers = 64.7% - 3.5 (on 2007)
    Private renters = 17.2% + 3.7

    Perhaps Miliband is too far ahead of the game for this to be an election winner, but if that sort of trend continues then the public mood will inevitably follow.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited April 2013
    @antifrank. "There is no Blairite “Get Miliband” strategy. Just look at the confused nature of the criticism aimed at the Labour leader. John Reid urged him to toughen his stance on immigration. Blair, in contrast, warned him against a lurch to the Right. David Blunkett was alarmed at Labour playing off “the retired versus the young… the badly housed versus the homeless”. Blair argued that Miliband seems only too happy to avoid difficult policy choices in these areas."

    The perfect Hodges article. Not only is Ed crap in every way imaginable but all the Labour bigwigs agree with him.
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    @tim

    Whereas the government could be accused of tinkering round the edges. Maybe that's why Labour aren't far enough ahead, and it's nothing to do with Miliband!

    But then there is:

    Planning reform
    Universal Credit and the 1% cap
    Faster increases in the pension age

    Compared to Labour's years - when few houses were built and the only reform to benefits was massive expansion of working age payments and complicity in splurging money on oldies.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    tim said:



    The big area Blair got wrong, along with all govts over the last 35 years is housing, Miliband will make that the central plank of a growth and benefit cuts programme as the Tories offer an alternative of house price inflation



    If Miliband can sell house price deflation (or at least the deflating of the bubble) he'll be a fine politician indeed.

    The number of owner occupiers is in decline, while the number of private renters increases. The 2011 figures are:

    Owner occupiers = 64.7% - 3.5 (on 2007)
    Private renters = 17.2% + 3.7

    Perhaps Miliband is too far ahead of the game for this to be an election winner, but if that sort of trend continues then the public mood will inevitably follow.
    The percentage may be falling but is that of a larger base ?
  • redcliffe62redcliffe62 Posts: 342
    edited April 2013
    Mining union chap on oz radio said 56% of England's electricity comes from imported coal. That should have been produced from pits in Yorkshire and Durham.

    Had coal not been needed we might say Thatcher was right and coal was obsolete.

    Clearly she was not correct on future coal requirements as it is coming from everywhere to fill a void aused by the shutdown of a once great industry.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,930
    The reduction in the percentage of home ownership is simply a reflection of the difficulty of getting a mortgage in the last 5 years. I have no doubt that the Brits are still totally wedded to Maggie's ideal of a property owning democracy and that they will respond to the policies that Osborne has now put in place to try and address that difficulty.

    If Osborne is open to criticism on this I would say that the restructuring of the banks has not been given a sufficiently urgent priority. I think the government has been held back by apprehension about the likely writing off of the large capital investments made by Brown but if investment and housebuilding are to increase in this country creating banks that have the balance sheet strength to lend freely is key. It really is time we bit the bullet and broke up RBS into good and bad banks.

    And this is yet another conversation that Labour seem to have nothing to say about.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Brogan's morning letter:

    "Good morning. A meeting of backbenchers, a message of defiance from an embattled leader and a desperate appeal for unity. And for a change it wasn't David Cameron. Tories will allow themselves a brief moment to relish overnight reports that Ed Miliband had to give his troops a pep talk at the PLP last night. The troubles besetting the Labour leader are growing. The reverberations from Mr Tony's intervention in the New Statesman last week are still being felt. He reinforced his message in a speech in the US, reported in the Guardian, namely on the perils facing parties and leaders that lose touch with the centre.
    Mr Miliband must be resenting the drip-drip of 'helpful' advice from those associated with Mr Blair, who plainly feel that with David Miliband gone, there is nothing left to be loyal for. Dan Hodges has another of his perceptive pieces of analysis in the Telegraph today, in which he details Labour's 35pc strategy for sneaking over the finish line, which, as Rachel Sylvester explains in the Times (£), amounts to 29pc core vote plus 6pc grumpy Lib Dems. If true, it's unambitious. Tories believe the skids are under Mr Miliband, both on policy and party management. They should look to their own troubles. But when a leader has to issue an appeal for unity, things are not going well. Are Labour wars about to become the theme of this late spring?"
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Mining union chap on oz radio said 56% of England's electricity comes from imported coal. That should have been produced from pits in Yorkshire and Durham. Had coal not been needed we might say Thatcher was right. Clearly she was not.

    Im sure we could be cheese independent but we choose to import - I blame Fatcha.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,687

    "US President Barack Obama will snub Lady Thatcher’s funeral by failing to send a single senior member of his administration, The Sun can reveal."

    Kinda think they will have matters closer to home on their minds....

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,007
    @redcliffe62

    of all the things she did I don't believe Margaret Thatcher made it illegal to own or run a coal mine.

    The coal is there - go for your life!

    And while you're at it, you could open a manufacturing plant. Perhaps one making Nike shoes. Plenty of demand for those. Or plastic toys.

    The world is your oyster.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited April 2013
    @Tim, The big area Blair got wrong, along with all govts over the last 35 years is housing,

    Labour should nationalize all land with limited compensation then allow the state to choose whatever rent is appropriate for the use of that land. The ideal way to regulate property prices and a notion Shelter had during the housing crises of the early 70's. A suitable slogan might be 'Give the Country back to the People"

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Mining union chap on oz radio said 56% of England's electricity comes from imported coal. That should have been produced from pits in Yorkshire and Durham. Had coal not been needed we might say Thatcher was right. Clearly she was not.

    Shares of generation in 2012 compared with a year earlier:
    " Coal 39.3% (up 10pp), gas 27.5% (down 12pp), nuclear 19.4% (up 1pp), renewables (wind, hydro & bioenergy) 11.3% (up 2pp). Overall low carbon generation was 30.7% (up 3pp).

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/172940/et5_1.xls
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    "US President Barack Obama will snub Lady Thatcher’s funeral by failing to send a single senior member of his administration, The Sun can reveal."

    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4889740/President-Obama-snubs-Thatcher-funeral.html#ixzz2Qbjwd1Jo

    Obama managed to send one to Chavez funeral - I think its yet another mistake by Obama, she was a huge political figure re Reagan and Gorby. Cack handed springs to mind, but after 4+yrs in office - his people can't be let off with not knowing any better.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,930

    Mining union chap on oz radio said 56% of England's electricity comes from imported coal. That should have been produced from pits in Yorkshire and Durham. Had coal not been needed we might say Thatcher was right. Clearly she was not.

    The reason we are importing so much coal at the moment is that it is dirt cheap. And the reason it is dirt cheap is the incredible increase of production of shale gas and oil in the US meaning that they do not need it any more.

    The idea that those pits in the UK which could not survive 30 odd years ago without substantial subsidy would be viable in the current energy market is for the fantasists and Milibands amongst us (these categories may overlap to a large degree).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,687

    As Nick Watts observed, a vacancy for 'Awkward former Prime Minister' has recently opened.....

    Didn't Gordon Brown go straight from Awkward Prime Minister to Awkward former Prime Minister?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,687

    Mining union chap on oz radio said 56% of England's electricity comes from imported coal. That should have been produced from pits in Yorkshire and Durham. Had coal not been needed we might say Thatcher was right. Clearly she was not.

    Are you prepared to pay the price of electricity generated from expensive domestically mined deep coal? I'm thinking probably not....

    There's a reason the pits closed. Price.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    "US President Barack Obama will snub Lady Thatcher’s funeral by failing to send a single senior member of his administration, The Sun can reveal."

    Kinda think they will have matters closer to home on their minds....

    This was decided before Boston.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Roger said:

    @Tim, The big area Blair got wrong, along with all govts over the last 35 years is housing,

    Labour should nationalize all land with limited compensation then allow the state to choose whatever rent is appropriate for the use of that land. The ideal way to regulate property prices and a notion Shelter had during the housing crises of the early 70's. A suitable slogan might be 'Give the Country back to the People"

    Perhaps after the forced collectivisation we should have a purge of the kulaks.

    What could possibly go wrong Comrade roger?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Roger said:

    Labour should nationalize all land with limited compensation

    Hallelujah! The Left is risen! Go for it Ed!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,838
    F1: Betfair and Ladbrokes seem to have their markets up. I'd argue strongly against the New 2013 Winner market (just 3) on Ladbrokes. Of 9 podium spots so far 8 have been taken by 4 drivers (Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso and Raikkonen) with the single extra slot taken by Webber. Vettel, Alonso and Raikkonen have all won already.

    If someone else wins then Hamilton seems likeliest, perhaps followed by Webber.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Last week's tributes to Margaret Thatcher from some Labour MPs were coded attacks on Ed Miliband's leadership - Stuart and Sheerman in particular.

    "What happened in 1979 was a colossal sea change in British politics, and we needed it. We needed something radical to happen to the untidy post-war shambles of a consensus, and Mrs Thatcher was it. It was not about Conservatism or Toryism. The people who said that it was Gladstonian, laissez-faire liberalism were absolutely right, as we know, because that blue liberalism was well known and understood in West Yorkshire. That is what she stood for, and it surprised everyone. Labour Members did not know how to handle it, and partly because of that she had three general election victories. We were trounced. We were a divided party and a divided Opposition, and we had a very long and tough time getting through it. Mrs Thatcher transformed the Labour party. We had to reform and change and get our act together, or we would have ceased to have the presence and power of a major party in our country. We must remember what Mrs Thatcher did for parliamentary democracy."

    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2013-04-10b.1613.0#g1662.2
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Roger appears to have filled in that blank sheet of paper....
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    @Tim"Enver Roger."

    I fear if Ed does nothing radical he'll lose. Relying on Cameron and co to be worse won't work. It seems like he's hibernating. Blair is right that he won't win from a sedentary position.
  • rogerhrogerh Posts: 282
    Maggie was dead right on the weakness of Labour lead.In May 1995 two years before the 2007 GE, the Labour lead was around 20%, more than doubklle EDs pitiful figure.By the 1997 GE the Labour lead was down to just 11%.A bit of good economic news could easily wipe out the current Labour lead.Labour needs to wake up soon and realise that Millibland is an albatross around their neck.
    Because of Labour,'s inbuilt electoral advantage it is unlikely that the Tories will get an overall majority.However on present polls the SNP would get 30+ seats and could end up holding the balance of power.Nice one!
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    RT @lucymanning: Euro Court of Human Rts stops UK extraditing Haroon Aswat to US to face terror charges incl conspiracy with Abu Hamza.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    edited April 2013
    @redcliffe62 do you have any figures to back up the miner's claim? From what I can find coal provides between a quarter and a third of our electricity. "What a miner said" is hardly a reliable source.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,687
    I have finally been won round to the new format.

    What did it was the "less is more" counter, showing tim on 1,198 posts....
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    @Roger

    We could always annexe Poland and kill two birds with one stone, loads of cheap coal and lots of housebuilding. plenty of space there to resettle miners.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Plato said:

    What's going on here?

    RT @JackofKent: Lib Dem MPs will renege today on explicit manifesto commitment to make it harder for companies to sue for libel. Shameful. #LibelReform

    AFAIUI there was a provision in the original bill that companies had to show financial harm before suing - raising the bar for those with deep pockets to go after people who said disobliging things about them - but this is to be removed, tilting the advantage back in favour of those with Loadsamoney.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited April 2013
    @Foxinsox

    I'm glad you've got the hang of the quotation button. I read and reread a particularly ugly and unpleasant post from you yesterday ("benefit whores stealing our f*cking money") thinking you must be drunk because it didn't sound like you and it was only after skimming the whole thread that I realized you had been quoting SeanT.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,007
    @Roger

    I don't think the "tack right" strategy is sensible for Cameron as it will simply embolden UKIP and his more extreme right wing MPs.

    Do you really think that Ed's best move is to tack left? The question you need to ask is whether the country is at heart extreme (left or right but in your case left) or broadly centrist.

    I think (thanks to M Thatcher, yes and T Blair) the answer is: broadly centrist.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    antifrank said:

    Ed Miliband has been very lucky. No one has yet noticed that a Greek chorus has walked on stage, offering a commentary on the hero's actions, thanks to the audience's attention being fixed on tomorrow's funeral.

    This seems to have been a pretty concerted push, with Tony Blair, David Blunkett, Alan Milburn, Tessa Jowell, John Reid and Peter Mandelson all breaking cover in the last few days. Are we going to get regular commentaries from them, or is this a one-off? Time will tell.

    That's what I was wondering. It seems a concerted push - but why this week when it will get little attention?

    Cynically I thought they were trying to put their objections on the record so that if it all goes wrong at the next election they can said 'we told you so, only a Blairite can win'
  • redcliffe62redcliffe62 Posts: 342

    @redcliffe62 do you have any figures to back up the miner's claim? From what I can find coal provides between a quarter and a third of our electricity. "What a miner said" is hardly a reliable source.

    @redcliffe62 do you have any figures to back up the miner's claim? From what I can find coal provides between a quarter and a third of our electricity. "What a miner said" is hardly a reliable source.

    It was on 612 brisbane radio, he was a mining union organiser from Durham who was about 70 and explained what they lived on for 12 months when the strike was on. Not 100% happy with Scargill either let me add. I agree that the 56% seemed high. He said that figure was current and what was reuired now in what was avery cold winter. I wills ee if it is cached anywhere. It was fascinating from a perspective of social history. He also said her funeral was on his birthday and he would be celebrating both matters.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Moody downgrades China

    Moody's Investor Service kept China's bond rating of 'Aa3' on Tuesday but cut the outlook to 'stable' from 'positive'.

    The credit ratings agency said that the country continues to experience “robust economic growth” but progress has been “less than anticipated” in the process of both reducing latent risks by making local government contingent liabilities more transparent and in reining in rapid credit growth.

    “Therefore, some of the upward pressure on the 'Aa3' rating has eased,” Moody's explained.


    Boy George must be feeling very smug this morning.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,007
    @redcliffe62

    I see you have exploited the Vanilla technology to "disagree" with those, including me, who by posting their own views, disagreed with you.

    Is not the whole point of this forum to explain why you disagree with someone via posting? What is the point of clicking a button to disagree? Where would that leave the cut and thrust of lively debate?

    Several people, including me in a particularly acute, witty manner, have pointed out that UK coal is uneconomic to produce. Pls explain why you disagree with this.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,234

    Mining union chap on oz radio said 56% of England's electricity comes from imported coal. That should have been produced from pits in Yorkshire and Durham. Had coal not been needed we might say Thatcher was right. Clearly she was not.

    Are you prepared to pay the price of electricity generated from expensive domestically mined deep coal? I'm thinking probably not....

    There's a reason the pits closed. Price.

    UK Coal have tried to get open cast coal mines extended, but have been stopped by 'enviromental' and NIMBY concerns.

    See here: http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Concerns-noise-dust-lead-objection-coal-mining-plan/story-11589884-detail/story.html#axzz2Qc5p30EY

    This is the sort of economically viable coal production we need though. But it is certainly not Thatcherite free market concerns that are stopping it being mined.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Pulpstar said:

    Mining union chap on oz radio said 56% of England's electricity comes from imported coal. That should have been produced from pits in Yorkshire and Durham. Had coal not been needed we might say Thatcher was right. Clearly she was not.

    Are you prepared to pay the price of electricity generated from expensive domestically mined deep coal? I'm thinking probably not....

    There's a reason the pits closed. Price.

    UK Coal have tried to get open cast coal mines extended, but have been stopped by 'enviromental' and NIMBY concerns.

    See here: http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Concerns-noise-dust-lead-objection-coal-mining-plan/story-11589884-detail/story.html#axzz2Qc5p30EY

    This is the sort of economically viable coal production we need though. But it is certainly not Thatcherite free market concerns that are stopping it being mined.
    Same has happened in South Wales.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    So inflation stable before the recent big drop in oil prices ?

    Perhaps 1% benefit rise was too generous.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,838
    F1: less furore about Bahrian this year, and a couple of interesting pieces on the political situation there and the impact of F1:
    http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/perceptions-and-realities-in-bahrain/

    http://blogs.espnf1.com/The_Inside_Line/archives/2013/04/reflections_on_bahrain.php
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,687
    TGOHF said:

    Roger appears to have filled in that blank sheet of paper....

    The shortest suicide note in history?

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Roger said:



    Labour should nationalize all land with limited compensation then allow the state to choose whatever rent is appropriate for the use of that land.

    Just as well you live in France eh Citizen Roger... power to the people!!
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    @TOPPING
    TOPPING said:


    Several people, including me in a particularly acute, witty manner, have pointed out that UK coal is uneconomic to produce. Pls explain why you disagree with this.

    In the World of the Magic Money Tree, you can borrow money from China to pay miners to dig coal you then can't sell, thus generating economic growth.

    See BenM or Ed Balls for details
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    On topic

    @patrickwintour: Ed miliband's personal leadership ratings published yesterday were his worst in an ICM-Guardian poll since he became leader.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Charles said:

    antifrank said:

    Ed Miliband has been very lucky. No one has yet noticed that a Greek chorus has walked on stage, offering a commentary on the hero's actions, thanks to the audience's attention being fixed on tomorrow's funeral.

    This seems to have been a pretty concerted push, with Tony Blair, David Blunkett, Alan Milburn, Tessa Jowell, John Reid and Peter Mandelson all breaking cover in the last few days. Are we going to get regular commentaries from them, or is this a one-off? Time will tell.

    That's what I was wondering. It seems a concerted push - but why this week when it will get little attention?

    Cynically I thought they were trying to put their objections on the record so that if it all goes wrong at the next election they can said 'we told you so, only a Blairite can win'
    I think we are in danger of over analysis. The date of the New Statesman's centenary was decided a century ago. When Blair wrote his article no one could foresee that Thatcher (who also had Bladder cancer, the death certificate shows)would pop her clogs. The old gal may have done Ed a favour - though I suspect coverage may pick up in Friday after the funeral is over.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    glassfet said:

    On topic

    @patrickwintour: Ed miliband's personal leadership ratings published yesterday were his worst in an ICM-Guardian poll since he became leader.

    Yet all the lefty "experts" on here keep telling us the blank sheet is a smart move.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TGOHF said:

    tim said:



    The big area Blair got wrong, along with all govts over the last 35 years is housing, Miliband will make that the central plank of a growth and benefit cuts programme as the Tories offer an alternative of house price inflation



    If Miliband can sell house price deflation (or at least the deflating of the bubble) he'll be a fine politician indeed.

    The number of owner occupiers is in decline, while the number of private renters increases. The 2011 figures are:

    Owner occupiers = 64.7% - 3.5 (on 2007)
    Private renters = 17.2% + 3.7

    Perhaps Miliband is too far ahead of the game for this to be an election winner, but if that sort of trend continues then the public mood will inevitably follow.
    The percentage may be falling but is that of a larger base ?
    It's where those percentages are that matter.

    The stat that worries me is how the age of first time buyers is increasing. Believe it may be as high as mid/late 30s now. You are creating a class of people who have never owned and fear they never will. That's got to have political implications.
This discussion has been closed.