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  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    alex. said:

    I’m not sure that local councils will have done much planning for EU elections, and one can imagine they will therefore be totally chaotic, and quite possibly widely open to post election legal challenges.

    I know they have tried to plan ahead for various scenarios, including the awful prospect of EU elections, referendum and GE all in the same year, but preparations would have been fully underway a long time ago in the ordinary course of things, it will probably not be pretty.
    Councils are used to running elections, and hardly had much notice for the last GE, after all. Compared with the myriad risks of a crash out Brexit in three weeks time, running the EU elections would be a piece of cake.
    Yes, even our local borough council has made contingency plans and offer advice to intending candidates.
    I would expect contingency planning to be better in areas without other elections (ie. locals) to preoccupy them. I wonder also if some may have also been discouraged from making such plans by their political leaders? Especially as any costs incurred will not be reimbursable if they don’t happen.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    Danny565 said:

    What exactly is the big objection to taking part in European elections?

    People keep using that as if it's a knockout argument against a long extension, but, of all the worries the general public have about delaying Brexit, I doubt that would be one of the main ones (after all, people who don't think we should be taking part in the elections can always choose to stay home).

    Tommy Robinson MEP.
    Why is the UK scared of the consequences of PR when other EU countries aren't? Having wasted my vote in all UK GEs since 1974, I'm sick of FPTP. It delivers extreme governments (Thatcher, 1983 and 1987) with majorities of 100-140 on ~41% of the popular vote.

  • I doubt the EU is enthused about having a cohort of deranged MEPs with Thor-sized axes to grind.

    Thor has a hammer, NOT an axe!
    He has an axe now.

    https://marvelcinematicuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Stormbreaker
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited March 2019

    Just catching up... so Mueller turns out to be a damp squib, is that right?

    We don't know yet either way, all we know is that he didn't recommend indictment.
    That isn't correct. That was Friday's news, there is more info now.

    "The special counsel did not find that any US person or Trump campaign official conspired or knowingly co-ordinated with Russia."

    There is the issue of if he obstructed justice.

    Mr Barr's summary says the special counsel report "ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment".

    "The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other - as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction," the letter read.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47688187
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    alex. said:

    She needs to change the game. Take the Kyle-Wilson deal, it'll get the WA through (assuming Leave wins) and save her job.

    Sorry if I am boring you but that amendment would require us to take part in the EU elections from the 12th April.
    Theoretical question - what would happen if we revoked article 50, but failed to get the Euro election legislation through Parliament in time?

    We would be in breach of our obligations as EU members (by denying our citizens right to representation). Anyone could take legal action, and would eventually succeed. If the Government refused to hold them ever we would I believe be subject to huge daily Commission fines, indefinitely.

    That said, if the Government said "Oh, sorry, we'll have them next month", I think the courts would shrug and say "That's OK then."
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1109953628973031424

    This is the worst deal in history.

    But you could become PM!

    I can vote for this, if the leader resigns and holds a contest.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited March 2019

    Danny565 said:

    What exactly is the big objection to taking part in European elections?

    People keep using that as if it's a knockout argument against a long extension, but, of all the worries the general public have about delaying Brexit, I doubt that would be one of the main ones (after all, people who don't think we should be taking part in the elections can always choose to stay home).

    Tommy Robinson MEP.
    Why is the UK scared of the consequences of PR when other EU countries aren't? Having wasted my vote in all UK GEs since 1974, I'm sick of FPTP. It delivers extreme governments (Thatcher, 1983 and 1987) with majorities of 100-140 on ~41% of the popular vote.
    Thank goodness it did (although I'd strongly disagree with the word 'extreme' - it was more a government able to deal with a completely toxic inheritance, which previous governments hadn't been able to deal with for a decade or more). The alternative is what we have now. Is that better? Or perhaps you prefer the Israeli-style parliament, which governments in thrall to tiny and genuinely extreme single-issue parties?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    alex. said:
    It’s a movie sequel

    The common market strikes back
    European Judgment Day
    The wrath of Can’t Brexit
    Is it a Christmas movie like Die Hard 2?
    Common Market 2 : Brexit Softer
    Perhaps today is Brexit Club Day, where all get detention, but come out different.

    Today is indeed Breakfast Club Day, 35 years from that famous detention, lets dance!

    https://youtu.be/ZbGlWN6Z0OA

    Am I the only one who thinks Allison better looking before her Molly Ringwold makeover?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Danny565 said:

    Of all the many reasons for and against delaying, taking part in an election seems pretty...second-order.

    Yup, it's scraping the barrel as a reason to oppose extension. (The real reason to oppose extension is that once you do it once, there's no reason to ever stop...)

    It mainly came up because TMay tried to use the elections to throw sand in the gears of any future extension, and drew up a timetable with the aim that further extensions would cause disruption. But the EU, not being born yesterday and not wanting their elections disrupted, rejected that timetable and imposed one that prevents her vandalizing their parliament.
  • If you're not following Tom Newton Dunn on Twitter, he's got an insider in the Tory WhatsApp group, which is highly amusing.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1109953628973031424

    This is the worst deal in history.

    But you could become PM!

    I can vote for this, if the leader resigns and holds a contest.

    Reckon it must be quite a blunt knife. Anyway, given the DUP ave said they will vote against the Govt in a VONC if the deal passes, isn’t the question of her agreeing to quit a bit moot anyway?

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Just catching up... so Mueller turns out to be a damp squib, is that right?

    We don't know yet either way, all we know is that he didn't recommend indictment.
    That isn't correct. That was Friday's news, there is more info now.

    "The special counsel did not find that any US person or Trump campaign official conspired or knowingly co-ordinated with Russia."

    There is the issue of if he obstructed justice.

    Mr Barr's summary says the special counsel report "ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment".

    "The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other - as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction," the letter read.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47688187
    I wouldn't particularly trust Barr's summary.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited March 2019

    Just catching up... so Mueller turns out to be a damp squib, is that right?

    We don't know yet either way, all we know is that he didn't recommend indictment.
    That isn't correct. That was Friday's news, there is more info now.

    "The special counsel did not find that any US person or Trump campaign official conspired or knowingly co-ordinated with Russia."

    There is the issue of if he obstructed justice.

    Mr Barr's summary says the special counsel report "ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment".

    "The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other - as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction," the letter read.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47688187
    I wouldn't particularly trust Barr's summary.
    That isn't a summary, it is a direct quote from the report.

    I am sure there is loads of crap in there about Team Trump's dodgy behaviour, but on the core central issue Mueller appears to be very clear.

    My guess would be "self-enrichment" be the most likely motivation for a lot of their behaviour.
  • prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 452
    alex. said:

    She needs to change the game. Take the Kyle-Wilson deal, it'll get the WA through (assuming Leave wins) and save her job.

    Sorry if I am boring you but that amendment would require us to take part in the EU elections from the 12th April.
    Theoretical question - what would happen if we revoked article 50, but failed to get the Euro election legislation through Parliament in time?

    No new legislation is required. European elections are governed by the European Parliamentary Elections Act 2002. All that is needed is for the relevant Secretary of State to make an order setting the date.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Shouldn't Boris agree to vote, along with his chums, for her deal, in exchange for a departure date this summer, AND a rewrite of the rules so top 4 candidates go to membership?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Can I just say, Billions is back and John Malkovich is brilliant in it.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993


    I doubt the EU is enthused about having a cohort of deranged MEPs with Thor-sized axes to grind.

    Thor has a hammer, NOT an axe!
    *

    *other weapons are available: https://xkcd.com/2097/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    alex. said:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1109953628973031424

    This is the worst deal in history.

    But you could become PM!

    I can vote for this, if the leader resigns and holds a contest.

    Reckon it must be quite a blunt knife. Anyway, given the DUP ave said they will vote against the Govt in a VONC if the deal passes, isn’t the question of her agreeing to quit a bit moot anyway?

    Given the Brexiteers on their own are not enough to pass it I assume this plan involves expecting the DUP to back it too in exchange for more money, I mean some new wording which will assuage their concerns? That is, where we were before Bercow made MV3 procedurally more tricky?

    I cannot say I recall hearing much from the DUP since the build up to that anticipated MV3, when a small number of former holdouts were saying they would hold their nose and vote for it at the third time of asking. I really don't see how the ERG crowd justify voting for the deal just because May quits. Ok, it means someone else will head the next phase for sure (rather than just very very likely), someone they hope will be better, but if the deal is bad it is bad, and May standing down doesn't change that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163


    I doubt the EU is enthused about having a cohort of deranged MEPs with Thor-sized axes to grind.

    Thor has a hammer, NOT an axe!
    Of all people to make such an elementary mistake. He does now.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2019
    Just listened to the Westminster Hour on Radio 4, with guests Tom Newton Dunn, Ed Vaizey, and Mark Field, all of whom are Remain supporters.
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    alex. said:

    I’m not sure that local councils will have done much planning for EU elections, and one can imagine they will therefore be totally chaotic, and quite possibly widely open to post election legal challenges.

    I know they have tried to plan ahead for various scenarios, including the awful prospect of EU elections, referendum and GE all in the same year, but preparations would have been fully underway a long time ago in the ordinary course of things, it will probably not be pretty.
    Councils are used to running elections, and hardly had much notice for the last GE, after all. Compared with the myriad risks of a crash out Brexit in three weeks time, running the EU elections would be a piece of cake.
    Yes, even our local borough council has made contingency plans and offer advice to intending candidates.
    I would expect contingency planning to be better in areas without other elections (ie. locals) to preoccupy them. I wonder also if some may have also been discouraged from making such plans by their political leaders? Especially as any costs incurred will not be reimbursable if they don’t happen.
    Given only 11 (I presume larger) local authorities have the faff of sorting candidate lists etc, it should be easy for the others.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited March 2019

    Shouldn't Boris agree to vote, along with his chums, for her deal, in exchange for a departure date this summer, AND a rewrite of the rules so top 4 candidates go to membership?

    Little bit too obviously designed to aid himself, not that that stops him at other times.

    Oh well, I look forward to checking in on the news Monday PM to discover the Cabinet still cannot agree a way forward, and is still split between no deal and customs union factions.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Just catching up... so Mueller turns out to be a damp squib, is that right?

    We don't know yet either way, all we know is that he didn't recommend indictment.
    That isn't correct. That was Friday's news, there is more info now.

    "The special counsel did not find that any US person or Trump campaign official conspired or knowingly co-ordinated with Russia."

    There is the issue of if he obstructed justice.

    Mr Barr's summary says the special counsel report "ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment".

    "The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other - as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction," the letter read.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47688187
    I wouldn't particularly trust Barr's summary.
    That isn't a summary, it is a direct quote from the report.

    I am sure there is loads of crap in there about Team Trump's dodgy behaviour, but on the core central issue Mueller appears to be very clear.

    My guess would be "self-enrichment" be the most likely motivation for a lot of their behaviour.
    Maryland has a self-enrichment case against Trump slowly moving through the courts. Perhaps it will move faster now the Mueller stuff is out of the way. I think they are relying on the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,186
    RoyalBlue said:

    alex. said:
    It’s not Brexit.

    If we take the Single Market or the Customs Union, then we can have our own trade policy or an end to freedom of movement. The combination of the two makes Brexit a total waste of time, which is the intention of Boles and his acolytes.
    Norway, Iceland and Turkey seem to manage outside the EU while in the Single Market or Customs Union
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    88,705 people in Edinburgh have signed the petition. The referendum result there was Remain 187,796; Leave 64,498.

    http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/2100/edinburghs_eu_referendum_results
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    MTimT said:

    Just catching up... so Mueller turns out to be a damp squib, is that right?

    We don't know yet either way, all we know is that he didn't recommend indictment.
    That isn't correct. That was Friday's news, there is more info now.

    "The special counsel did not find that any US person or Trump campaign official conspired or knowingly co-ordinated with Russia."

    There is the issue of if he obstructed justice.

    Mr Barr's summary says the special counsel report "ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment".

    "The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other - as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction," the letter read.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47688187
    I wouldn't particularly trust Barr's summary.
    That isn't a summary, it is a direct quote from the report.

    I am sure there is loads of crap in there about Team Trump's dodgy behaviour, but on the core central issue Mueller appears to be very clear.

    My guess would be "self-enrichment" be the most likely motivation for a lot of their behaviour.
    Maryland has a self-enrichment case against Trump slowly moving through the courts. Perhaps it will move faster now the Mueller stuff is out of the way. I think they are relying on the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution.
    Here's a story on it: https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-emoluments-suit-maryland-trump-20181204-story.html
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    alex. said:
    It’s not Brexit.

    If we take the Single Market or the Customs Union, then we can have our own trade policy or an end to freedom of movement. The combination of the two makes Brexit a total waste of time, which is the intention of Boles and his acolytes.
    Norway, Iceland and Turkey seem to manage outside the EU while in the Single Market or Customs Union
    You misread what he wrote - one or the other, but not both.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,186
    alex. said:

    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    alex. said:
    It’s not Brexit.

    If we take the Single Market or the Customs Union, then we can have our own trade policy or an end to freedom of movement. The combination of the two makes Brexit a total waste of time, which is the intention of Boles and his acolytes.
    Norway, Iceland and Turkey seem to manage outside the EU while in the Single Market or Customs Union
    You misread what he wrote - one or the other, but not both.
    Effectively we have to have both at least temporarily to avoid a hard border in Ireland anyway
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,186
    edited March 2019
    Yes Biden leads Trump 47% to 40%. Sanders also beats Trump more narrowly 44% to 41%.

    However Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump also leads Warren 42% to 40%
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    edited March 2019
    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    What exactly is the big objection to taking part in European elections?

    People keep using that as if it's a knockout argument against a long extension, but, of all the worries the general public have about delaying Brexit, I doubt that would be one of the main ones (after all, people who don't think we should be taking part in the elections can always choose to stay home).

    I doubt the EU is enthused about having a cohort of deranged MEPs with Thor-sized axes to grind. They’re already facing a chaotic European Parliament and having British MEPs would only make things worse.
    Would it be that bad? You'd presumably get a cohort of Brexit party MEPs, and many Tory ones, who would be huge pains in the arse, but every single other MEP would be massively in favour of the EU.
    My understanding is the EU genuinely fears that even without the UK participation there will be a very large number of Eurosceptic or EU-hostile MEPs returned from Poland, Hungary, Italy and even the Netherlands, France and Germany. Not enough to take power of course but enough to make things very difficult in the Parliament. The addition of a notable number of British openly anti-EU MEPs would make life very much more difficult.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    HYUFD said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    alex. said:
    It’s not Brexit.

    If we take the Single Market or the Customs Union, then we can have our own trade policy or an end to freedom of movement. The combination of the two makes Brexit a total waste of time, which is the intention of Boles and his acolytes.
    Norway, Iceland and Turkey seem to manage outside the EU while in the Single Market or Customs Union
    But not both. And the Turkey deal is very bad.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,186
    edited March 2019
    HYUFD said:

    Yes Biden leads Trump 47% to 40%. Sanders also beats Trump more narrowly 44% to 41%.

    However Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump also leads Warren 42% to 40%
    Biden leads early national polling of Democratic voters on 31%, Sanders is second on 23% and Harris and O'Rourke a distant third on 8% each. Warren is on just 4%, tied with Booker for last
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    HYUFD said:

    Yes Biden leads Trump 47% to 40%. Sanders also beats Trump more narrowly 44% to 41%.

    However Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump also leads Warren 42% to 40%
    But, then there is Pete Buttigieg...

    Dark horse, surprise, who I am on at 110.

    Making progress in Iowa:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/435520-buttigieg-surges-to-third-place-in-new-iowa-poll
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    alex. said:

    For someone still taking the Conservative whip he is showing a remarkable flexibility in his idea of loyalty to the leader.
    Well he’s just quit his local association, so probably doesn’t fancy his chances of fighting the next election. Is he recovered from his health issues as well.

    And, er, not as much flexibility as Johnson!
    He announced when he quit the association that he would not stand again.
  • HYUFD said:

    Yes Biden leads Trump 47% to 40%. Sanders also beats Trump more narrowly 44% to 41%.

    However Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump also leads Warren 42% to 40%
    But, then there is Pete Buttigieg...

    Dark horse, surprise, who I am on at 110.

    Making progress in Iowa:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/435520-buttigieg-surges-to-third-place-in-new-iowa-poll
    Easily the most fascinating candidate.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    What exactly is the big objection to taking part in European elections?

    People keep using that as if it's a knockout argument against a long extension, but, of all the worries the general public have about delaying Brexit, I doubt that would be one of the main ones (after all, people who don't think we should be taking part in the elections can always choose to stay home).

    I doubt the EU is enthused about having a cohort of deranged MEPs with Thor-sized axes to grind. They’re already facing a chaotic European Parliament and having British MEPs would only make things worse.
    Would it be that bad? You'd presumably get a cohort of Brexit party MEPs, and many Tory ones, who would be huge pains in the arse, but every single other MEP would be massively in favour of the EU.
    My understanding is the EU genuinely fears that even without the UK participation there will be a very large number of Eurosceptic or EU-hostile MEPs returned from Poland, Hungary, Italy and even the Netherlands, France and Germany. Not enough to take power of course but enough to make things very difficult in the Parliament. The addition of a notable number of British openly anti-EU MEPs would make life very much more difficult.
    I read the other day that Junker may have to stay on, as the MEPs could not agree a new commission following a populist surge.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    What is IDS driving there? Looks interesting.
    Morgan Roadster. He's exactly the type of prick who would have one.
    What's wrong with them?
    They are shoddily built overpriced junk bought by mugs.

    There are a lot of ways in which they are technically deficient but the sliding pillar front suspension is particularly egregious - a technology that was largely abandoned by the motor industry before WW2. It is very maintenance intensive and doesn't camber out under compression which gives the car absolutely savage handling characteristics.

    It's a rolling metaphor for Brexit: a poorly executed pastiche of something that never actually existed.
    Cheers. Unless it is an E-Type which I have loved since I was a kid, a car is just a box to get me comfortably from A to B so I have never paid much attention to anything beyond is it comfortable and is it reliable. I drive a Galaxy which is a breize block on wheels. But it will carry all manner of rubbish in the back and doesn't break down much.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    HYUFD said:

    Yes Biden leads Trump 47% to 40%. Sanders also beats Trump more narrowly 44% to 41%.

    However Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump also leads Warren 42% to 40%
    But, then there is Pete Buttigieg...

    Dark horse, surprise, who I am on at 110.

    Making progress in Iowa:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/435520-buttigieg-surges-to-third-place-in-new-iowa-poll
    Easily the most fascinating candidate.
    The audacity of hope, as someone apparently once said.

    I've seen a few clips. He is very, very good. A surprise could be coming in the debates.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,186

    HYUFD said:

    Yes Biden leads Trump 47% to 40%. Sanders also beats Trump more narrowly 44% to 41%.

    However Trump beats Harris 41% to 39% and Trump also leads Warren 42% to 40%
    But, then there is Pete Buttigieg...

    Dark horse, surprise, who I am on at 110.

    Making progress in Iowa:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/435520-buttigieg-surges-to-third-place-in-new-iowa-poll
    Biden leads in Iowa there on 25% but only a fraction ahead of Sanders on 24%.

    Buttigieg is third on 11% a bit further back, just ahead of Harris on 10%
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    A Customs Union is the only one of the seven with a hope of getting a majority and Tory MPs will be warned against voting for it.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    What is IDS driving there? Looks interesting.
    Morgan Roadster. He's exactly the type of prick who would have one.
    What's wrong with them?
    They are shoddily built overpriced junk bought by mugs.

    There are a lot of ways in which they are technically deficient but the sliding pillar front suspension is particularly egregious - a technology that was largely abandoned by the motor industry before WW2. It is very maintenance intensive and doesn't camber out under compression which gives the car absolutely savage handling characteristics.

    It's a rolling metaphor for Brexit: a poorly executed pastiche of something that never actually existed.
    Cheers. Unless it is an E-Type which I have loved since I was a kid, a car is just a box to get me comfortably from A to B so I have never paid much attention to anything beyond is it comfortable and is it reliable. I drive a Galaxy which is a breize block on wheels. But it will carry all manner of rubbish in the back and doesn't break down much.
    We had a VW Sharan - the same thing. It was great but had no street cred at all except with minicab drivers or large families
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,305

    kle4 said:

    She needs to change the game. Take the Kyle-Wilson deal, it'll get the WA through (assuming Leave wins) and save her job.

    Sorry if I am boring you but that amendment would require us to take part in the EU elections from the 12th April.
    It's be really great if we could avoid those, if only for the poor staff organising them, but is it in enough peoples' interest to avoid them?
    ERG and others would create a firestorm in the HOC at the mere idea
    They are only 100 or so out of 650; they have not the power to stop it.
    .
    Its worth noting that even the ERG are now fracturing & bickering among themselves as we head to the Brexit last chance saloon blame game.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,305

    Just catching up... so Mueller turns out to be a damp squib, is that right?

    Mueller Light?
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,305

    Danny565 said:

    What exactly is the big objection to taking part in European elections?

    People keep using that as if it's a knockout argument against a long extension, but, of all the worries the general public have about delaying Brexit, I doubt that would be one of the main ones (after all, people who don't think we should be taking part in the elections can always choose to stay home).

    I doubt the EU is enthused about having a cohort of deranged MEPs with Thor-sized axes to grind. They’re already facing a chaotic European Parliament and having British MEPs would only make things worse.
    Agreed, even the possibility of Nigel Farage returning to the European Parliament has had some in Brussels reaching for the smelling salts. ;)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    fitalass said:

    Just catching up... so Mueller turns out to be a damp squib, is that right?

    Mueller Light?
    That’s not to say that Trump is in the clear, however.

    Over the course of the investigation, Mueller got convictions or guilty pleas from Trump’s campaign chairman, deputy campaign chairman, national security advisor and longtime personal attorney and indicted his longtime confidant, Roger Stone.

    In those two years, the public learned that his son, son-in-law and campaign manager met with Russians promising dirt on Hillary Clinton in Trump Tower; that Trump pursued a construction project in Moscow well into the election; and that his campaign manager handed valuable polling data to a contact the FBI believes has ties to Russian intelligence.

    Spin-off investigations were opened by other federal prosecutors into Trump’s hush money payments to a porn star, his inauguration committee’s fundraising and his business. And the president faces other serious legal trouble in everything from a defamation lawsuit from a woman who claimed sexual harassment to constitutional questions about his Washington hotel, not to mention the lingering questions left by Barr’s summary, which House Democrats have vowed to get answers on.


    http://time.com/5557878/mueller-report-barr-trump-politics/
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,305
    edited March 2019

    fitalass said:

    Just catching up... so Mueller turns out to be a damp squib, is that right?

    Mueller Light?
    That’s not to say that Trump is in the clear, however.

    Over the course of the investigation, Mueller got convictions or guilty pleas from Trump’s campaign chairman, deputy campaign chairman, national security advisor and longtime personal attorney and indicted his longtime confidant, Roger Stone.

    In those two years, the public learned that his son, son-in-law and campaign manager met with Russians promising dirt on Hillary Clinton in Trump Tower; that Trump pursued a construction project in Moscow well into the election; and that his campaign manager handed valuable polling data to a contact the FBI believes has ties to Russian intelligence.

    Spin-off investigations were opened by other federal prosecutors into Trump’s hush money payments to a porn star, his inauguration committee’s fundraising and his business. And the president faces other serious legal trouble in everything from a defamation lawsuit from a woman who claimed sexual harassment to constitutional questions about his Washington hotel, not to mention the lingering questions left by Barr’s summary, which House Democrats have vowed to get answers on.


    http://time.com/5557878/mueller-report-barr-trump-politics/
    Absolutely spot on Carlotta, hence my comment of Mueller Light which I pinched from a comment elsewhere to sum up just this situation.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited March 2019
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Just catching up... so Mueller turns out to be a damp squib, is that right?

    Mueller Light?
    That’s not to say that Trump is in the clear, however.

    Over the course of the investigation, Mueller got convictions or guilty pleas from Trump’s campaign chairman, deputy campaign chairman, national security advisor and longtime personal attorney and indicted his longtime confidant, Roger Stone.

    In those two years, the public learned that his son, son-in-law and campaign manager met with Russians promising dirt on Hillary Clinton in Trump Tower; that Trump pursued a construction project in Moscow well into the election; and that his campaign manager handed valuable polling data to a contact the FBI believes has ties to Russian intelligence.

    Spin-off investigations were opened by other federal prosecutors into Trump’s hush money payments to a porn star, his inauguration committee’s fundraising and his business. And the president faces other serious legal trouble in everything from a defamation lawsuit from a woman who claimed sexual harassment to constitutional questions about his Washington hotel, not to mention the lingering questions left by Barr’s summary, which House Democrats have vowed to get answers on.


    http://time.com/5557878/mueller-report-barr-trump-politics/
    Absolutely spot on Carlotta, hence my comment of Mueller Light which I pinched from a comment elsewhere to sum up just this situation.
    And this "Total EXONERATION" is simply not true:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1109918388133023744
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Just catching up... so Mueller turns out to be a damp squib, is that right?

    Mueller Light?
    That’s not to say that Trump is in the clear, however.

    Over the course of the investigation, Mueller got convictions or guilty pleas from Trump’s campaign chairman, deputy campaign chairman, national security advisor and longtime personal attorney and indicted his longtime confidant, Roger Stone.

    In those two years, the public learned that his son, son-in-law and campaign manager met with Russians promising dirt on Hillary Clinton in Trump Tower; that Trump pursued a construction project in Moscow well into the election; and that his campaign manager handed valuable polling data to a contact the FBI believes has ties to Russian intelligence.

    Spin-off investigations were opened by other federal prosecutors into Trump’s hush money payments to a porn star, his inauguration committee’s fundraising and his business. And the president faces other serious legal trouble in everything from a defamation lawsuit from a woman who claimed sexual harassment to constitutional questions about his Washington hotel, not to mention the lingering questions left by Barr’s summary, which House Democrats have vowed to get answers on.


    http://time.com/5557878/mueller-report-barr-trump-politics/
    Absolutely spot on Carlotta, hence my comment of Mueller Light which I pinched from a comment elsewhere to sum up just this situation.
    And this "Total EXONERATION" is simply not true:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1109918388133023744
    So out of character for him, he's usually so measured and restrained on these matters.
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    alex. said:

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    alex. said:

    I’m not sure that local councils will have done much planning for EU elections, and one can imagine they will therefore be totally chaotic, and quite possibly widely open to post election legal challenges.

    I know they have tried to plan ahead for various scenarios, including the awful prospect of EU elections, referendum and GE all in the same year, but preparations would have been fully underway a long time ago in the ordinary course of things, it will probably not be pretty.
    Councils are used to running elections, and hardly had much notice for the last GE, after all. Compared with the myriad risks of a crash out Brexit in three weeks time, running the EU elections would be a piece of cake.
    Yes, even our local borough council has made contingency plans and offer advice to intending candidates.
    I would expect contingency planning to be better in areas without other elections (ie. locals) to preoccupy them. I wonder also if some may have also been discouraged from making such plans by their political leaders? Especially as any costs incurred will not be reimbursable if they don’t happen.
    European elections (and candidate verification) are managed on a regional level, not local. Local councils are only overseas in the administration process.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    Danny565 said:

    What exactly is the big objection to taking part in European elections?

    People keep using that as if it's a knockout argument against a long extension, but, of all the worries the general public have about delaying Brexit, I doubt that would be one of the main ones (after all, people who don't think we should be taking part in the elections can always choose to stay home).

    Tommy Robinson MEP.
    Why is the UK scared of the consequences of PR when other EU countries aren't? Having wasted my vote in all UK GEs since 1974, I'm sick of FPTP. It delivers extreme governments (Thatcher, 1983 and 1987) with majorities of 100-140 on ~41% of the popular vote.
    Blair got handed majority power for five years on the back of 35% of the popular vote; that's how fraudulent a system we have.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    The key is whether parliament will be content to let May run the indicative process or whether trust in her has now gone and they take over themselves.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    IanB2 said:

    The key is whether parliament will be content to let May run the indicative process or whether trust in her has now gone and they take over themselves.
    And whether they have the votes for it.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    IanB2 said:

    The key is whether parliament will be content to let May run the indicative process or whether trust in her has now gone and they take over themselves.
    And whether they have the votes for it.....
    I think they do. It was awful close last time such a matter was considered.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The key is whether parliament will be content to let May run the indicative process or whether trust in her has now gone and they take over themselves.
    And whether they have the votes for it.....
    I think they do. It was awful close last time such a matter was considered.
    Surely Bercow wouldn't let them vote on the same motion twice? :o
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The key is whether parliament will be content to let May run the indicative process or whether trust in her has now gone and they take over themselves.
    And whether they have the votes for it.....
    I think they do. It was awful close last time such a matter was considered.
    Surely Bercow wouldn't let them vote on the same motion twice? :o
    In all seriousness given the Commons regularly allows amendments so substantial to be considered they utterly wreck the purpose of the original motion I dont think any rules are iron clad.

    But I think your faux surprise is right, since we all know Bercow would allow anything he would prefer. It shouldn't be hard to tweak things a bit to justify.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    rcs1000 said:
    It would be very amusing to see all these wily, hardened national political veterans upstaged by such a person (it was less amusing when Trump upstaged political veterans). Who's running South Bend while he is doing all this though?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Just catching up... so Mueller turns out to be a damp squib, is that right?

    We don't know yet either way, all we know is that he didn't recommend indictment.
    That isn't correct. That was Friday's news, there is more info now.

    "The special counsel did not find that any US person or Trump campaign official conspired or knowingly co-ordinated with Russia."

    There is the issue of if he obstructed justice.

    Mr Barr's summary says the special counsel report "ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment".

    "The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other - as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction," the letter read.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47688187
    I wouldn't particularly trust Barr's summary.
    That isn't a summary, it is a direct quote from the report.

    I am sure there is loads of crap in there about Team Trump's dodgy behaviour, but on the core central issue Mueller appears to be very clear.

    My guess would be "self-enrichment" be the most likely motivation for a lot of their behaviour.
    IIUC it's a summary that includes a bunch of quotes from the report, none of which go so far as to quote an entire sentence.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The key is whether parliament will be content to let May run the indicative process or whether trust in her has now gone and they take over themselves.
    And whether they have the votes for it.....
    I think they do. It was awful close last time such a matter was considered.
    Surely Bercow wouldn't let them vote on the same motion twice? :o
    It's an amendment, not a motion which helps Remain so it may well be a different case....
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    alex. said:
    I can't even work out which ones are supposed to be serious any more.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    alex. said:
    I can't even work out which ones are supposed to be serious any more.
    I think its BRINO 7.4
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    What is IDS driving there? Looks interesting.
    Morgan Roadster. He's exactly the type of prick who would have one.
    What's wrong with them?
    They are shoddily built overpriced junk bought by mugs.

    There are a lot of ways in which they are technically deficient but the sliding pillar front suspension is particularly egregious - a technology that was largely abandoned by the motor industry before WW2. It is very maintenance intensive and doesn't camber out under compression which gives the car absolutely savage handling characteristics.

    It's a rolling metaphor for Brexit: a poorly executed pastiche of something that never actually existed.
    Cheers. Unless it is an E-Type which I have loved since I was a kid, a car is just a box to get me comfortably from A to B so I have never paid much attention to anything beyond is it comfortable and is it reliable. I drive a Galaxy which is a breize block on wheels. But it will carry all manner of rubbish in the back and doesn't break down much.
    Scanning through this morning I found this, with which I can completely agree. Comfort, safety and reliability are what I want in a car, plus of course economy. I've had one fairly flash car in my life; a Golf Cabriolet, which, in my (and my wife's) 40's was one late despairing effort to recapture the spirit of youth...... open top, wind in hair, etc.
    The family had grown up and had cars of their own so the fact that there wasn't much space in the back wasn't a problem!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Just crap. It is their impossibility to please that he appears blind to.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    The key is whether parliament will be content to let May run the indicative process or whether trust in her has now gone and they take over themselves.
    And whether they have the votes for it.....
    I think they do. It was awful close last time such a matter was considered.
    Surely Bercow wouldn't let them vote on the same motion twice? :o
    The substantive is different and so even if amended the amended substantive is also different. So there isn't any vote on the same proposition as before.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    What is IDS driving there? Looks interesting.
    Morgan Roadster. He's exactly the type of prick who would have one.
    What's wrong with them?
    They are shoddily built overpriced junk bought by mugs.

    There are a lot of ways in which they are technically deficient but the sliding pillar front suspension is particularly egregious - a technology that was largely abandoned by the motor industry before WW2. It is very maintenance intensive and doesn't camber out under compression which gives the car absolutely savage handling characteristics.

    It's a rolling metaphor for Brexit: a poorly executed pastiche of something that never actually existed.
    Cheers. Unless it is an E-Type which I have loved since I was a kid, a car is just a box to get me comfortably from A to B so I have never paid much attention to anything beyond is it comfortable and is it reliable. I drive a Galaxy which is a breize block on wheels. But it will carry all manner of rubbish in the back and doesn't break down much.
    Scanning through this morning I found this, with which I can completely agree. Comfort, safety and reliability are what I want in a car, plus of course economy. I've had one fairly flash car in my life; a Golf Cabriolet, which, in my (and my wife's) 40's was one late despairing effort to recapture the spirit of youth...... open top, wind in hair, etc.
    The family had grown up and had cars of their own so the fact that there wasn't much space in the back wasn't a problem!
    I do not drive so am driven in a great range of minicabs, from which my conclusions are that Priuses are very smooth, and Ford makes the best seats.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    IanB2 said:

    The key is whether parliament will be content to let May run the indicative process or whether trust in her has now gone and they take over themselves.
    And whether they have the votes for it.....
    Almost for sure they did by the weekend. As I said, the question is whether May's approach either persuades them not to press the matter or some of their Tory support to trust May instead. Again.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914

    Just catching up... so Mueller turns out to be a damp squib, is that right?

    We don't know yet either way, all we know is that he didn't recommend indictment.
    That isn't correct. That was Friday's news, there is more info now.

    "The special counsel did not find that any US person or Trump campaign official conspired or knowingly co-ordinated with Russia."

    There is the issue of if he obstructed justice.

    Mr Barr's summary says the special counsel report "ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment".

    "The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other - as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction," the letter read.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47688187
    I wouldn't particularly trust Barr's summary.
    That isn't a summary, it is a direct quote from the report.

    I am sure there is loads of crap in there about Team Trump's dodgy behaviour, but on the core central issue Mueller appears to be very clear.

    My guess would be "self-enrichment" be the most likely motivation for a lot of their behaviour.
    IIUC it's a summary that includes a bunch of quotes from the report, none of which go so far as to quote an entire sentence.
    Trump is obviously spinning the Mueller Report, we will have to wait to see whether the devil is in the detail.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    IanB2 said:

    Danny565 said:

    What exactly is the big objection to taking part in European elections?

    People keep using that as if it's a knockout argument against a long extension, but, of all the worries the general public have about delaying Brexit, I doubt that would be one of the main ones (after all, people who don't think we should be taking part in the elections can always choose to stay home).

    Tommy Robinson MEP.
    Why is the UK scared of the consequences of PR when other EU countries aren't? Having wasted my vote in all UK GEs since 1974, I'm sick of FPTP. It delivers extreme governments (Thatcher, 1983 and 1987) with majorities of 100-140 on ~41% of the popular vote.
    Blair got handed majority power for five years on the back of 35% of the popular vote; that's how fraudulent a system we have.
    You must be a Lib Dem..
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Just catching up... so Mueller turns out to be a damp squib, is that right?

    We don't know yet either way, all we know is that he didn't recommend indictment.
    That isn't correct. That was Friday's news, there is more info now.

    "The special counsel did not find that any US person or Trump campaign official conspired or knowingly co-ordinated with Russia."

    There is the issue of if he obstructed justice.

    Mr Barr's summary says the special counsel report "ultimately determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment".

    "The Special Counsel therefore did not draw a conclusion - one way or the other - as to whether the examined conduct constituted obstruction," the letter read.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47688187
    I wouldn't particularly trust Barr's summary.
    That isn't a summary, it is a direct quote from the report.

    I am sure there is loads of crap in there about Team Trump's dodgy behaviour, but on the core central issue Mueller appears to be very clear.

    My guess would be "self-enrichment" be the most likely motivation for a lot of their behaviour.
    IIUC it's a summary that includes a bunch of quotes from the report, none of which go so far as to quote an entire sentence.
    No collusion is a good enough headline finding for Trump and probably puts paid to a Republican primary challenge.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497
    edited March 2019

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    What is IDS driving there? Looks interesting.
    Morgan Roadster. He's exactly the type of prick who would have one.
    What's wrong with them?
    They are shoddily built overpriced junk bought by mugs.

    There are a lot of ways in which they are technically deficient but the sliding pillar front suspension is particularly egregious - a technology that was largely abandoned by the motor industry before WW2. It is very maintenance intensive and doesn't camber out under compression which gives the car absolutely savage handling characteristics.

    It's a rolling metaphor for Brexit: a poorly executed pastiche of something that never actually existed.
    Cheers. Unless it is an E-Type which I have loved since I was a kid, a car is just a box to get me comfortably from A to B so I have never paid much attention to anything beyond is it comfortable and is it reliable. I drive a Galaxy which is a breize block on wheels. But it will carry all manner of rubbish in the back and doesn't break down much.
    Scanning through this morning I found this, with which I can completely agree. Comfort, safety and reliability are what I want in a car, plus of course economy. I've had one fairly flash car in my life; a Golf Cabriolet, which, in my (and my wife's) 40's was one late despairing effort to recapture the spirit of youth...... open top, wind in hair, etc.
    The family had grown up and had cars of their own so the fact that there wasn't much space in the back wasn't a problem!
    I do not drive so am driven in a great range of minicabs, from which my conclusions are that Priuses are very smooth, and Ford makes the best seats.
    If I lived somewhere with better public transport, I might well not own a car. People asked us, when I retired and we went down to one car, how we were going to manage, but we're fine. The only place that's really inaccessible without a car is the gym! And I suppose a taxi wouldn't be that expensive.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    This polling expert on R4 saying focus groups are finding a GE is exceptionally unpopular right now, and that she believes calling for one was a big factor in the recent drop in Corbyn/Labour's scores
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    What is IDS driving there? Looks interesting.
    Morgan Roadster. He's exactly the type of prick who would have one.
    What's wrong with them?
    They are shoddily built overpriced junk bought by mugs.

    There are a lot of ways in which they are technically deficient but the sliding pillar front suspension is particularly egregious - a technology that was largely abandoned by the motor industry before WW2. It is very maintenance intensive and doesn't camber out under compression which gives the car absolutely savage handling characteristics.

    It's a rolling metaphor for Brexit: a poorly executed pastiche of something that never actually existed.
    Cheers. Unless it is an E-Type which I have loved since I was a kid, a car is just a box to get me comfortably from A to B so I have never paid much attention to anything beyond is it comfortable and is it reliable. I drive a Galaxy which is a breize block on wheels. But it will carry all manner of rubbish in the back and doesn't break down much.
    Scanning through this morning I found this, with which I can completely agree. Comfort, safety and reliability are what I want in a car, plus of course economy. I've had one fairly flash car in my life; a Golf Cabriolet, which, in my (and my wife's) 40's was one late despairing effort to recapture the spirit of youth...... open top, wind in hair, etc.
    The family had grown up and had cars of their own so the fact that there wasn't much space in the back wasn't a problem!
    I do not drive so am driven in a great range of minicabs, from which my conclusions are that Priuses are very smooth, and Ford makes the best seats.
    If I lived somewhere with better public transport, I might well not own a car. People asked us, when I retired and we went down to one car, how we were going to manage, but we're fine. The only place that's really inaccessible without a car is the gym! And I suppose a taxi wouldn't be that expensive.
    Walk to the gym, walk home again, and skip the bit in the middle. And the membership fee.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    IanB2 said:

    This polling expert on R4 saying focus groups are finding a GE is exceptionally unpopular right now, and that she believes calling for one was a big factor in the recent drop in Corbyn/Labour's scores

    Is Brenda on the focus group?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    rcs1000 said:
    That sounds like a major sex scandal in the making already :hushed:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Guardian: Theresa May’s prospects of getting her Brexit deal through parliament this week dramatically receded on Sunday night after a high-stakes summit with Boris Johnson and other leading hard-Brexiters at her country retreat broke up without agreement.

    Tory rebels present said that the prime minister repeated “all the same lines” about her deal and that nothing new emerged during the three-hour meeting, at which Jacob Rees-Mogg, Iain Duncan Smith and Dominic Raab were also present.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Steve Baker looking uncannily like Jason Bateman in the tweet down thread.

    "I've made a huge mistake"
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,619
    IanB2 said:

    Guardian: Theresa May’s prospects of getting her Brexit deal through parliament this week dramatically receded on Sunday night after a high-stakes summit with Boris Johnson and other leading hard-Brexiters at her country retreat broke up without agreement.

    Tory rebels present said that the prime minister repeated “all the same lines” about her deal and that nothing new emerged during the three-hour meeting, at which Jacob Rees-Mogg, Iain Duncan Smith and Dominic Raab were also present.

    There have been no new lines since December.

    Agree to her deal, or get Fucked-up Brexit/No Brexit. Because that's how it is.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Good morning, everyone.

    When are we getting the next meaningless vote?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    IanB2 said:

    Guardian: Theresa May’s prospects of getting her Brexit deal through parliament this week dramatically receded on Sunday night after a high-stakes summit with Boris Johnson and other leading hard-Brexiters at her country retreat broke up without agreement.

    Tory rebels present said that the prime minister repeated “all the same lines” about her deal and that nothing new emerged during the three-hour meeting, at which Jacob Rees-Mogg, Iain Duncan Smith and Dominic Raab were also present.

    Nothing Has Changed.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    OT. Yesterday evening I wrote this;

    "Strangest thing in the S of France. From Nice to the other side of Beaulieu is in complete lockdown. No boats in the water no cars on the road and all entrances in and out of Beaulieu and Cap ferrat blocked. Just Gendarmes everywhere. It's like the Marie Celeste"

    Today I discovered why; Macron was meeting Chinese President Xi Jinping at the Villa Karylos in Beaulieu to discuss a trade deal.

    Two thoughts.

    1. It's sad to think that Emanuelle Macron and the EU are laying out the red carpet to do a trade deal with China when Theresa May is doing her laundry.

    2. What a strange impression Xi Jinping must have of the finest coastline in the world. No cars no boats and no people!

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    IanB2 said:

    Just crap. It is their impossibility to please that he appears blind to.
    Which facts do you disagree with?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    Good morning, everyone.

    When are we getting the next meaningless vote?

    Voting on the amendments starts 10pm, after a debate from 3.30pm today, I believe. If there is an MV3 tomorrow seems to be favourite, although the chances of it reappearing are receding.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Corbo is going full Marty Feldman. Could this be the beginning of the end?

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jeremy-corbyn-admits-he-is-being-treated-for-eye-condition-th5dhlpcd
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. B2, cheers.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,501
    I pulled out £200 trading on that over the weekend.

    So I’m happy.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,501
    IanB2 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    What is IDS driving there? Looks interesting.
    Morgan Roadster. He's exactly the type of prick who would have one.
    What's wrong with them?
    They are shoddily built overpriced junk bought by mugs.

    There are a lot of ways in which they are technically deficient but the sliding pillar front suspension is particularly egregious - a technology that was largely abandoned by the motor industry before WW2. It is very maintenance intensive and doesn't camber out under compression which gives the car absolutely savage handling characteristics.

    It's a rolling metaphor for Brexit: a poorly executed pastiche of something that never actually existed.
    Cheers. Unless it is an E-Type which I have loved since I was a kid, a car is just a box to get me comfortably from A to B so I have never paid much attention to anything beyond is it comfortable and is it reliable. I drive a Galaxy which is a breize block on wheels. But it will carry all manner of rubbish in the back and doesn't break down much.
    Scanning through this morning I found this, with which I can completely agree. Comfort, safety and reliability are what I want in a car, plus of course economy. I've had one fairly flash car in my life; a Golf Cabriolet, which, in my (and my wife's) 40's was one late despairing effort to recapture the spirit of youth...... open top, wind in hair, etc.
    The family had grown up and had cars of their own so the fact that there wasn't much space in the back wasn't a problem!
    I do not drive so am driven in a great range of minicabs, from which my conclusions are that Priuses are very smooth, and Ford makes the best seats.
    If I lived somewhere with better public transport, I might well not own a car. People asked us, when I retired and we went down to one car, how we were going to manage, but we're fine. The only place that's really inaccessible without a car is the gym! And I suppose a taxi wouldn't be that expensive.
    Walk to the gym, walk home again, and skip the bit in the middle. And the membership fee.
    Gyms are both unpleasant, and a rip off.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,619
    Roger said:

    OT. Yesterday evening I wrote this;

    "Strangest thing in the S of France. From Nice to the other side of Beaulieu is in complete lockdown. No boats in the water no cars on the road and all entrances in and out of Beaulieu and Cap ferrat blocked. Just Gendarmes everywhere. It's like the Marie Celeste"

    Today I discovered why; Macron was meeting Chinese President Xi Jinping at the Villa Karylos in Beaulieu to discuss a trade deal.

    Two thoughts.

    1. It's sad to think that Emanuelle Macron and the EU are laying out the red carpet to do a trade deal with China when Theresa May is doing her laundry.

    2. What a strange impression Xi Jinping must have of the finest coastline in the world. No cars no boats and no people!

    But no gilet jeunes. The lockdown wasn't to spare Xi's blushes.....
This discussion has been closed.