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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » EdM still tight odds on favourite to be next PM

SystemSystem Posts: 11,730
edited October 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » EdM still tight odds on favourite to be next PM

The price assumes that both LAB are in a position to form a government after GE2015 and that Ed is still leader. While the latter is now in less doubt than it was there must always be an element on uncertainty.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    first in the queue.
  • Options
    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Murphy now the same as Nick Clegg.

    LOL
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    If you think Lab are going to do well then Lab most seats 1.88 on Betfair is surely a better bet.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    edited October 2013
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited October 2013
    There's nearly £400 available on this bet at odds of 1.77 or better on Betfair for those that are interested. It's a similar bet to Labour Most Seats, but with the drawback that Nick Clegg might prefer to go with the party with Most Votes in a hung Parliament, so I prefer the slightly worse odds that you can get on that.

    Betfair punters don't seem to have caught up with the recent slight strengthening in Labour's polling, so Labour Most Seats is worth it at 1.86 (5/6).

    EDIT I see that TGOHF makes the same point.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,955
    FPT. @Carlotta

    'Mystic Ed and his Crystal Balls'.....or this - Labour PPB going out tonight:

    Effective I guess but a really nauseating soundtrack.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    tim said:

    Theresa May 66/1
    Ed Miliband 9/4

    Are my bets

    Both from last year

    66/1 on Theresa May seems better value on her being the next Labour Prime Minister than Ed.

    She may cross the floor of the HoC, kick Ed with her leopard pattern shoes, a quick forearm smash to Ed Balls and the Labour party is hers.

  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    Note from Typo Central - there's one in the thread header ("on uncertainty").

    The odds look fairly plausible - we're in the last third of the Parliament and far from swingback the lead seems to be strengthening slightly. Plenty of time for black swans, of course.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    tim said:

    JackW said:

    tim said:

    Theresa May 66/1
    Ed Miliband 9/4

    Are my bets

    Both from last year

    66/1 on Theresa May seems better value on her being the next Labour Prime Minister than Ed.

    She may cross the floor of the HoC, kick Ed with her leopard pattern shoes, a quick forearm smash to Ed Balls and the Labour party is hers.

    It's difficult to which are your attempts at humour and which aren't so fancy a bet on your SNP 12 seats prediction?
    I don't fancy anything about you "tim".

  • Options
    SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,650
    tim said:

    Theresa May 66/1
    Ed Miliband 9/4

    Are my bets

    Both from last year

    Lovely!
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Ed favourite for No.10. Has Dan Hodges begun to write his article yet ?
  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790

    Why is Ed standing next to a giant ice cube?

    He wants to look cool
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,955
    Calling Hunchman. Calling Hunchman. FT index at an all time high. There must be some mistake. We need guidance...
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    surbiton said:

    Ed favourite for No.10. Has Dan Hodges begun to write his article yet ?

    He's been writing it for years; a few times a week he shares the latest draft.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    tim said:

    JackW said:

    tim said:

    JackW said:

    tim said:

    Theresa May 66/1
    Ed Miliband 9/4

    Are my bets

    Both from last year

    66/1 on Theresa May seems better value on her being the next Labour Prime Minister than Ed.

    She may cross the floor of the HoC, kick Ed with her leopard pattern shoes, a quick forearm smash to Ed Balls and the Labour party is hers.

    It's difficult to which are your attempts at humour and which aren't so fancy a bet on your SNP 12 seats prediction?
    I don't fancy anything about you "tim".

    See what I mean.

    I'll assume your SNP prediction is a similar lame joke, but I'm happy to consider bets on Labour in Scotland too.
    If you don't want them the offers available to anyone taking your predictions seriously too
    What I mean "tim" is that as you well know since PB started I have on principle never wagered with other PBers and accordingly setting up these betting straw men just make you appear more of a pillock than you are.

    The "lame joke" on PB is your constant anally retentive wittering and regularly MODERATED drivel contending that all the worlds ills are the fault of the Coalition in general and David Cameron in particular.

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    The "most seats" market deserves higher profile IMHO.

    I see it as "fairer" than a "next PM" market as it doesn't involve backroom deals - Ed might win most seats but yet not be PM (no sniggering).

  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited October 2013
    Some aspects of the next PM market are worthy of note :

    Should you consider as I do that :

    Ed Miliband will never be Prime Minister

    then the market opens very considerably. Cameron continues as PM and we must look at a future Conservative PM down the line - plenty of large odds there - or the next Labour leader after Ed goes in 2015 - again good odds available.

    More short term is the Cameron/Clapham Omnibus option. Here the odds favour May and Hague and even Clegg as stand-in whilst the Conservatives choose one of the former.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    Nice to see my 6/4 on Ed Miliband 'in the green' so to speak.
  • Options
    To get an answer on this, you have to look at the scenario if EdM doesn't win.

    (1) You lose your stake
    (2) You probably have a job to go to

    or
    (1) You win
    (2) You lose your job.

    Is it worthwhile betting on that scenario? Think of it as disaster planning.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TGOHF said:

    The "most seats" market deserves higher profile IMHO.

    I see it as "fairer" than a "next PM" market as it doesn't involve backroom deals - Ed might win most seats but yet not be PM (no sniggering).

    Might we be allowed a substantial guffaw instead of a barely audible snigger ??

  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    JackW said:

    TGOHF said:

    The "most seats" market deserves higher profile IMHO.

    I see it as "fairer" than a "next PM" market as it doesn't involve backroom deals - Ed might win most seats but yet not be PM (no sniggering).

    Might we be allowed a substantial guffaw instead of a barely audible snigger ??

    I'm visualising Brian Blessed...


  • Options
    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    JackW said:

    tim said:

    JackW said:

    tim said:

    JackW said:

    tim said:

    Theresa May 66/1
    Ed Miliband 9/4

    Are my bets

    Both from last year

    66/1 on Theresa May seems better value on her being the next Labour Prime Minister than Ed.

    She may cross the floor of the HoC, kick Ed with her leopard pattern shoes, a quick forearm smash to Ed Balls and the Labour party is hers.

    It's difficult to which are your attempts at humour and which aren't so fancy a bet on your SNP 12 seats prediction?
    I don't fancy anything about you "tim".

    See what I mean.

    I'll assume your SNP prediction is a similar lame joke, but I'm happy to consider bets on Labour in Scotland too.
    If you don't want them the offers available to anyone taking your predictions seriously too
    What I mean "tim" is that as you well know since PB started I have on principle never wagered with other PBers and accordingly setting up these betting straw men just make you appear more of a pillock than you are.

    The "lame joke" on PB is your constant anally retentive wittering and regularly MODERATED drivel contending that all the worlds ills are the fault of the Coalition in general and David Cameron in particular.

    Translation: "I don't fancy the bet"
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,038
    Mr. Ajob, worth mentioning that some of us never bet with other pbers (or anyone other than bookies/exchanges). It's a perfectly acceptable position to hold.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Bobajob said:

    JackW said:

    tim said:

    JackW said:

    tim said:

    JackW said:

    tim said:

    Theresa May 66/1
    Ed Miliband 9/4

    Are my bets

    Both from last year

    66/1 on Theresa May seems better value on her being the next Labour Prime Minister than Ed.

    She may cross the floor of the HoC, kick Ed with her leopard pattern shoes, a quick forearm smash to Ed Balls and the Labour party is hers.

    It's difficult to which are your attempts at humour and which aren't so fancy a bet on your SNP 12 seats prediction?
    I don't fancy anything about you "tim".

    See what I mean.

    I'll assume your SNP prediction is a similar lame joke, but I'm happy to consider bets on Labour in Scotland too.
    If you don't want them the offers available to anyone taking your predictions seriously too
    What I mean "tim" is that as you well know since PB started I have on principle never wagered with other PBers and accordingly setting up these betting straw men just make you appear more of a pillock than you are.

    The "lame joke" on PB is your constant anally retentive wittering and regularly MODERATED drivel contending that all the worlds ills are the fault of the Coalition in general and David Cameron in particular.

    Translation: "I don't fancy the bet"
    Translation : "tims useful idiot wakes up"

  • Options
    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Mr. Ajob, worth mentioning that some of us never bet with other pbers (or anyone other than bookies/exchanges). It's a perfectly acceptable position to hold.

    I think it was more that the lairdy doth protest too much
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    @Roger - agree - the content is fine, but they've struggled with the music - presumably wary of tipping it into parody.....

    In other news.....Banksy is on a roll in New York:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2479336/Banksy-anonymously-donated-latest-artwork-charity-shop-theyre-thrilled-Nazi-officer.html
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    OT

    For geeks and others who are interested in new technology like screens, etching circuits on graphene, new solar cell efficiency, gallium nitride etc, Solid State Technology magazine is free from: www.electroiq.com
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,561
    I would agree that 12 SNP seats is too high although I think they will increase their number gaining some of the Lib Dem seats up for grabs.

    There is a chance that they might also gain the odd seat off Labour but most of SLABs seats are very safe. In Dundee West, for example, which is a very strong area for the SNP generally and where they hold the Scottish Parliamentary seat, Labour got almost as many votes at the last election as the SNP, Lib Dem and tory put together. It really would require something remarkable to change that.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    tim said:

    Mr. Ajob, worth mentioning that some of us never bet with other pbers (or anyone other than bookies/exchanges). It's a perfectly acceptable position to hold.


    I'm happy to ask for an SNP seats market set up on Betfair if Jack wants to guarantee some input on the other side of the exchange bet, but nobody seriously thinks he believes the SNP will win 12 seats anymore than he thought UKIP would win 5.
    Who do you think will win Argyll & Bute ?
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    I don't see Salmond on the list. If he loses the independence vote he could run for PM?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    DavidL said:

    I would agree that 12 SNP seats is too high although I think they will increase their number gaining some of the Lib Dem seats up for grabs.

    There is a chance that they might also gain the odd seat off Labour but most of SLABs seats are very safe. In Dundee West, for example, which is a very strong area for the SNP generally and where they hold the Scottish Parliamentary seat, Labour got almost as many votes at the last election as the SNP, Lib Dem and tory put together. It really would require something remarkable to change that.

    Electoral Calculus has some 'interesting' predictions. Lib Dems to have less seats than Conservatives is one... (3 vs 4)
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    tim said:

    Mr. Ajob, worth mentioning that some of us never bet with other pbers (or anyone other than bookies/exchanges). It's a perfectly acceptable position to hold.


    I'm happy to ask for an SNP seats market set up on Betfair if Jack wants to guarantee some input on the other side of the exchange bet, but nobody seriously thinks he believes the SNP will win 12 seats anymore than he thought UKIP would win 5.
    I can only presume that the Ashcroft polling has given you the heart to go back after that particular projection after Stuart let you down so badly when you sub-contracted thrashing it to him.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    tim said:

    Another triumph for IDS

    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome
    The UK Supreme Court unanimously rules that the Government's 'back-to-work' scheme is illegal

    Maybe he can appeal to the European Courts

    John Major said it all about IDS. He is just incompetent.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    Faisal Islam tweets: Disposable income spent on essentials shot up since 2003 from 19.9% to 27.3%: almost all housing, & pre-2011 pic.twitter.com/qZSFBlhllx

    2011 (vs 2003)
    Housing: 19.4 (+4.7)
    Water: 0.9 (+0.2)
    Gas: 1.3 (+0.5)
    Electric: 1.4 (+0.4)
    Petrol/Diesel: 3.0 (+0.4)
    Total: 26.0 (+6.1)

    For perspective - 2013 vs 2011 total is +1.3
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    DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 712
    edited October 2013
    New Jersey and Virginia game

    Morning all, the game is available below and will close at 7pm Monday:

    http://www.electiongame.co.uk/nj-virginia/

    Many thanks,

    DC
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24659790

    Some farmers are doing something useful.
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    The next PM market is a tricky one to analyse. As others have remarked, there are better ways of betting on Labour to form the next government than to bet on Ed as next PM at these odds (or the slightly better odds available from Ladbrokes). But if it's not Ed, then who? There are three main possibilities which don't involve Ed as next PM:

    1) Cameron falls under a bus before the next election. I don't have much doubt about what would happen in that scenario: William Hague (25/1 at William Hill) would surely be interim PM, whilst the Conservative Party set about finding a new permanent leader. One important point to note: unlike the 'next leader' markets, which usually exclude a temporary or interim leader, I think I'm right in saying this wouldn't apply to next PM - you're either the PM or you're not. Still, the 'under a bus' scenario is pretty remote; 25/1 is no more than reasonable value IMO.

    2) Labour don't do well enough to propel Ed into No 10, Cameron remains as PM, Labour elect a new leader. In this case you want to be on that Labour figure (if only as a trading bet) - Andy Burnham at 66/1 (Ladbrokes) would be a possible long shot for this scenario.

    3) Same as 2, but looking at the possibility of Cameron's replacement instead. Any of Theresa May (14/1), Michael Gove (33/1), George Osborne (whose star will be in the ascendant in this scenario - 33/1), or - this is the long shot - Jeremy Hunt (66/1) might be worth looking at, and of course there's Boris (20/1), although it's hard to see his route to the top from where he is now. I can't say that any of these odds are compelling, but for a small fun bet any of them might provide you with a nice surprise.
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    SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,650
    surbiton said:

    tim said:

    Another triumph for IDS

    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome
    The UK Supreme Court unanimously rules that the Government's 'back-to-work' scheme is illegal

    Maybe he can appeal to the European Courts

    John Major said it all about IDS. He is just incompetent.
    I am guessing they`ll have to shell out compensation for those under the scheme.

    It`s bizarre how the Tories are intent on wrecking their massive lead over Labour on welfare.
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    tim said:

    If Osborne decides he needs another chinless empty glove puppet to front his govt, Jeremy is perfectly suited.

    You underestimate Jeremy Hunt. He's recovered remarkably well from his spot of bother and is putting up a feisty performance at Health - much better than I for one expected.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited October 2013
    surbiton said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24659790

    Some farmers are doing something useful.

    'Environmental campaigners are concerned by the size of the solar farms being proposed.'

    So, yet more of the 'Wrong kind of Green Energy'. It appears to be nigh on impossible to appease these people.


  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SMukesh said:

    surbiton said:

    tim said:

    Another triumph for IDS

    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome
    The UK Supreme Court unanimously rules that the Government's 'back-to-work' scheme is illegal

    Maybe he can appeal to the European Courts

    John Major said it all about IDS. He is just incompetent.
    I am guessing they`ll have to shell out compensation for those under the scheme.

    It`s bizarre how the Tories are intent on wrecking their massive lead over Labour on welfare.
    The main mistake IDS made was in trusting the legal advice given to him by the DWP's lawyers.

    Given the Government introduced new regulations, it's not yet clear how much compensation will need to be paid. It seems that the Government won on the general principle that this was not slave labour, but lost on the detail of how it had used the regulation-making powers available to it.
  • Options
    antifrank said:


    The main mistake IDS made was in trusting the legal advice given to him by the DWP's lawyers.

    Given the Government introduced new regulations, it's not yet clear how much compensation will need to be paid. It seems that the Government won on the general principle that this was not slave labour, but lost on the detail of how it had used the regulation-making powers available to it.

    Anyone would think it's unknown for Labour ministers to lose judicial review cases...
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    SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,650

    tim said:

    If Osborne decides he needs another chinless empty glove puppet to front his govt, Jeremy is perfectly suited.

    You underestimate Jeremy Hunt. He's recovered remarkably well from his spot of bother and is putting up a feisty performance at Health - much better than I for one expected.
    He did have to make a `U` turn over allegations of smearing Andy Burnham though on threat of legal action.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013
    SMukesh said:

    He did have to make a `U` turn over allegations of smearing Andy Burnham though on threat of legal action.

    No he didn't, he hasn't smeared anyone, and he's doing a good job of subverting Labour's shameless rewriting of history.
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Tim

    'Duncan Weldon ‏@DuncanWeldon 5m
    ONS - real households' disposable income has been flat since Q2 2009 despite growth of 4.2% in GDP.'

    As we know wages started to stagnate in 2003,but nothing to do with Labour's mass immigration policy.

    The period from 2003 onwards has seen median wages stagnate, and then fall in the aftermath of the 2008-09 recession.
    From 2003 to 2008, median wages were stagnant. Despite growth in GDP of 11 percent over the period, median earnings fell by an annual average of 0.2% percent for men, and for women rose by 0.3 percent a year. Put simply, a middle earner in 2008 did not earn noticeably more than a middle earner in 2003.

    '[PDF]
    Growth without gain? - Resolution Foundation
    www.resolutionfoundation.org/media/.../Growth_without_gain_-_Web.p...‎
    by J Plunkett - ‎2011 - ‎Cited by 12 - ‎Related articles
    to living standards in the UK over the last thirty years? In absolute terms ... was
    strong from 1977 to 2003 but from 2003-08 – before the 2008-09 recession, and.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    What to make of the latest wobble in the direction of Labour's policy on HS2?

    Is this all a proxy war over how much power and discretion Balls has to decide economic policy?
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    tim said:

    If Osborne decides he needs another chinless empty glove puppet to front his govt, Jeremy is perfectly suited.

    You underestimate Jeremy Hunt. He's recovered remarkably well from his spot of bother and is putting up a feisty performance at Health - much better than I for one expected.
    Further in Jeremy Hunt's defence, he also appears to have an entirely normal chin.
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    SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,650

    SMukesh said:

    He did have to make a `U` turn over allegations of smearing Andy Burnham though on threat of legal action.

    No he didn't, he hasn't smeared anyone, and he's doing a good job of subverting Labour's shameless rewriting of history.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24434296

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/07/jeremy-hunt-claims-against-andy-burnham
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    edited October 2013
    By the way, anyone else notice that "our tim" has been somewhat less gobby, indeed has been reduced to resentful speechlessness over HS2. Like all Labour's too-clever-by-half stunts this one has backfired quite spectacularly. A right royal Balls-up. And hero Darling was rowing back sharpish but inelegantly on Channel 4 News last night

    Dave has turned the tables neatly by giving Ed that 'veto'. Cue all those Labour Big City Leader bods...
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    Roger said:

    Calling Hunchman. Calling Hunchman. FT index at an all time high. There must be some mistake. We need guidance...


    I understand Hunchman is to be called before the PB Accounts Committee for an explanation at the next Dirty Dicks meeting.
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    Apparently Lord Justice Richards has just raised the point that as a Privy Counsellor, he is a member of the body whose decision Pressbof are trying to have quashed.
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    @SMukesh - Quite. He didn't smear Andy Burnham, left his tweet up, and didn't retract his words.

    Despite the Labour bluster in the articles you quoted, that remains the case, as far as I know.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    antifrank said:

    SMukesh said:

    surbiton said:

    tim said:

    Another triumph for IDS

    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome
    The UK Supreme Court unanimously rules that the Government's 'back-to-work' scheme is illegal

    Maybe he can appeal to the European Courts

    John Major said it all about IDS. He is just incompetent.
    I am guessing they`ll have to shell out compensation for those under the scheme.

    It`s bizarre how the Tories are intent on wrecking their massive lead over Labour on welfare.
    The main mistake IDS made was in trusting the legal advice given to him by the DWP's lawyers.

    Given the Government introduced new regulations, it's not yet clear how much compensation will need to be paid. It seems that the Government won on the general principle that this was not slave labour, but lost on the detail of how it had used the regulation-making powers available to it.
    That's my (inexpert) reading of the Judgement:

    http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/decided-cases/docs/UKSC_2013_0064_Judgment.pdf

    It sounds more like a case of sloppy drafting - an insufficient follow through on detail - than a fundamental 'it's wrong'.

    My favourite bit:

    "Miss Reilly was born in 1989 and first claimed jobseeker’s allowance in August 2010. Three months later, she got a paid work experience placement at a museum pursuant to a Government scheme, and was paid the minimum wage subsidised by that scheme. When that placement ended, she continued to work voluntarily at the museum, with a view to pursuing a career in museums. She has always complied with the jobseeking conditions, and has been committed to seeking employment. Miss Reilly is no longer claiming jobseeker’s allowance as she has obtained paid employment at a supermarket."

    It was Miss Reilly who claimed (dismissed) that forcing her to work on an unpaid placement in a Poundland was a breach of her Human Rights..... and had she known it was not required would not have done so....then would she have got her job in the supermarket?


  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    @SMukesh - Quite. He didn't smear Andy Burnham, left his tweet up, and didn't retract his words.

    Despite the Labour bluster in the articles you quoted, that remains the case, as far as I know.

    He was still going to sue, wasn't he?

    Yeah, right.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24739354 Talk about a compensation culture...
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    @JohnO - Quite.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    When is Hunt up in court against Burnham ?

    He hasn't apologised nor retracted - Burnham said on live radio he wouldn't back down...
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    When is Hunt up in court against Burnham ?

    He hasn't apologised nor retracted - Burnham said on live radio he wouldn't back down...
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    surbiton said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24659790

    Some farmers are doing something useful.

    'Environmental campaigners are concerned by the size of the solar farms being proposed.'

    So, yet more of the 'Wrong kind of Green Energy'. It appears to be nigh on impossible to appease these people.
    One of the solar farms proposed is being funded by the green energy firm Good Energy.

    Do not pretend that any political grouping has monolithic views. I am sure that you would be able to find individual environmental campaigners to oppose just about every type of green energy, but they would likely be different individuals for different things, while every type of green energy would have majority support amongst those that self-identify as green.

    Do you see how that works?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876

    @SMukesh - Quite. He didn't smear Andy Burnham, left his tweet up, and didn't retract his words.

    Despite the Labour bluster in the articles you quoted, that remains the case, as far as I know.

    Talking of bluster - how's Burnham's legal case against Hunt progressing?

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    Hunt vs Burnham - What a battle of the political titans.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    Hunt vs Burnham - What a battle of the political titans.

    Make up references vs make up in handbag



  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:

    SMukesh said:

    surbiton said:

    tim said:

    Another triumph for IDS

    PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome
    The UK Supreme Court unanimously rules that the Government's 'back-to-work' scheme is illegal

    Maybe he can appeal to the European Courts

    John Major said it all about IDS. He is just incompetent.
    I am guessing they`ll have to shell out compensation for those under the scheme.

    It`s bizarre how the Tories are intent on wrecking their massive lead over Labour on welfare.
    The main mistake IDS made was in trusting the legal advice given to him by the DWP's lawyers.

    Given the Government introduced new regulations, it's not yet clear how much compensation will need to be paid. It seems that the Government won on the general principle that this was not slave labour, but lost on the detail of how it had used the regulation-making powers available to it.
    That's my (inexpert) reading of the Judgement:

    http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/decided-cases/docs/UKSC_2013_0064_Judgment.pdf

    It sounds more like a case of sloppy drafting - an insufficient follow through on detail - than a fundamental 'it's wrong'.

    My favourite bit:

    "Miss Reilly was born in 1989 and first claimed jobseeker’s allowance in August 2010. Three months later, she got a paid work experience placement at a museum pursuant to a Government scheme, and was paid the minimum wage subsidised by that scheme. When that placement ended, she continued to work voluntarily at the museum, with a view to pursuing a career in museums. She has always complied with the jobseeking conditions, and has been committed to seeking employment. Miss Reilly is no longer claiming jobseeker’s allowance as she has obtained paid employment at a supermarket."

    It was Miss Reilly who claimed (dismissed) that forcing her to work on an unpaid placement in a Poundland was a breach of her Human Rights..... and had she known it was not required would not have done so....then would she have got her job in the supermarket?


    The spelling police will be after you, Ms Vance. "Judgments" in the legal sense only ever have one E (though the spelling with two Es is in more common usage in other senses). It's a nice judgement which spelling to use on which occasion.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    Lynton Crosby and David Camerons rearguard action on behalf of the tobacco companies beginning to pay off

    October 30, 2013: The number of smokers trying to quit with NHS help has fallen for the first time since 2008, new figures show.

    http://www.hscic.gov.uk/article/3670/Fewer-smokers-trying-to-kick-the-habit-with-NHS-help


    Next you will be telling us there is a drop in the number of people quitting snuff and laudanum ?

    Next week - sales of cassettes drops to new record low - blame Cameron.


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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    tim said:

    Lynton Crosby and David Camerons rearguard action on behalf of the tobacco companies beginning to pay off

    October 30, 2013: The number of smokers trying to quit with NHS help has fallen for the first time since 2008, new figures show.

    http://www.hscic.gov.uk/article/3670/Fewer-smokers-trying-to-kick-the-habit-with-NHS-help

    Nah, tim, now that Labour, albeit through gritted teeth, will support HS2, whither that 'wheeze' about spending all that money on that massive housebuilding programme?

    Hmm, tricky one for the two Eds, isn't it. Big goal to Dave, wouldn't you agree?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    Interesting YouGov infographic on consumer confidence:

    http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/10/30/infographic-consumers-road-recovery/
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,955
    @Carlotta

    I love the Banksy with the Nazi officer! Reminds me of the book 'How Green we're the Nazis?'
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    @tim - Fear not, I'm positively pulsating with calm and tranquility.

    No, that wasn't the plan, was it? I believe you yourself - on this very blog no less - were speculating on those billions being spent elsewhere and that would have included the housebuilding programme which now magically would have become affordable on the Tories own figures!

    Poor Ed. And it looked soooo promising. Blame Balls. You know you want to. I won't grass on you.
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    RandomRandom Posts: 107
    edited October 2013
    Apologies for calling back to last night's thread, but I've just seen some interesting polling which calls into question the apparent consensus that the Republicans need to burn the Tea Party if they want to stand a chance in 2016 -


    "42% Identify with Obama Politically, 42% with the Tea Party

    Voters are evenly divided when asked whether they agree more politically with President Obama or with the average member of the Tea Party. But an enormous partisan gap colors virtually all opinions of the Tea Party.

    A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 42% of Likely U.S. Voters think the president’s views are closest to their own when it comes to the major issues facing the country. But just as many (42%) say their views come closest to those of the average Tea Party member instead. Sixteen percent (16%) are not sure."

    So basically people want the Republicans to run a campaign based on the 16% who are neither Tea Party nor Obama supporters? Good luck with that.

    (And before anybody else says it, yes the down-thread polling is all over the place. I do think the most interesting and relevant bit however is - "When it comes to the major issues facing the nation, 77% of Democrats say Obama’s views are closest to their own. Seventy-six percent (76%) of Republicans and 51% of unaffiliated voters identify more closely with the average member of the Tea Party. " - if you want to win unaffiliateds you won't do it by burning the Tea Party.)

    (From "http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/october_2013/42_identify_with_obama_politically_42_with_the_tea_party"= apologies, first attempt to insert it as a link failed.)
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    Oh dear, not good news for the Grand Soviet of the Heroes of the Armed-Wing of the Labour Party.
    Ninety-one per cent of police officers believe it is time for the organisation that represents them, the Police Federation, to change, an independent review has suggested.

    The survey of 12,500 police officers also found 64% are dissatisfied with the performance of the federation.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    Roger said:

    @Carlotta

    I love the Banksy with the Nazi officer! Reminds me of the book 'How Green we're the Nazis?'

    It's very clever because its set off an on-line bidding war - last time I checked over $210,000 - with funds to go to a homeless charity - and I do have some sympathy for his devastating insult of the 'Freedom Tower' - 'It looks like something they would build in Canada.....'
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    tim said:

    Lynton Crosby and David Camerons rearguard action on behalf of the tobacco companies beginning to pay off

    October 30, 2013: The number of smokers trying to quit with NHS help has fallen for the first time since 2008, new figures show.

    http://www.hscic.gov.uk/article/3670/Fewer-smokers-trying-to-kick-the-habit-with-NHS-help

    Are you Spanish? Do you understand that if you over-fish unsustainably then the population left to fish in deminishes...?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    tim said:

    Lynton Crosby and David Camerons rearguard action on behalf of the tobacco companies beginning to pay off

    October 30, 2013: The number of smokers trying to quit with NHS help has fallen for the first time since 2008, new figures show.

    http://www.hscic.gov.uk/article/3670/Fewer-smokers-trying-to-kick-the-habit-with-NHS-help

    There's good news when you search for it.

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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    Random said:

    Apologies for calling back to last night's thread, but I've just seen some interesting polling which calls into question the apparent consensus that the Republicans need to burn the Tea Party if they want to stand a chance in 2016 -


    "42% Identify with Obama Politically, 42% with the Tea Party

    Voters are evenly divided when asked whether they agree more politically with President Obama or with the average member of the Tea Party. But an enormous partisan gap colors virtually all opinions of the Tea Party.

    A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 42% of Likely U.S. Voters think the president’s views are closest to their own when it comes to the major issues facing the country. But just as many (42%) say their views come closest to those of the average Tea Party member instead. Sixteen percent (16%) are not sure."

    So basically people want the Republicans to run a campaign based on the 16% who are neither Tea Party nor Obama supporters? Good luck with that.

    (And before anybody else says it, yes the down-thread polling is all over the place. I do think the most interesting and relevant bit however is - "When it comes to the major issues facing the nation, 77% of Democrats say Obama’s views are closest to their own. Seventy-six percent (76%) of Republicans and 51% of unaffiliated voters identify more closely with the average member of the Tea Party. " - if you want to win unaffiliateds you won't do it by burning the Tea Party.)

    (From "http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/october_2013/42_identify_with_obama_politically_42_with_the_tea_party"= apologies, first attempt to insert it as a link failed.)

    Level-pegging is certainly enough for the Republicans to hold onto the House, and the majority of State legistlatures. But to win the Presidency, they need some of that 16%.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,161
    Random said:

    Apologies for calling back to last night's thread, but I've just seen some interesting polling which calls into question the apparent consensus that the Republicans need to burn the Tea Party if they want to stand a chance in 2016 -


    "42% Identify with Obama Politically, 42% with the Tea Party

    Voters are evenly divided when asked whether they agree more politically with President Obama or with the average member of the Tea Party. But an enormous partisan gap colors virtually all opinions of the Tea Party.

    A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 42% of Likely U.S. Voters think the president’s views are closest to their own when it comes to the major issues facing the country. But just as many (42%) say their views come closest to those of the average Tea Party member instead. Sixteen percent (16%) are not sure."

    So basically people want the Republicans to run a campaign based on the 16% who are neither Tea Party nor Obama supporters? Good luck with that.

    They're not polling supporter or not, they're polling a forced choice of tea party against Obama.

    If you do a straight approval question you get more like 31% support, eg
    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politics/cnn-poll-congress-approval/

    Admittedly that was during the shutdown and Rasmussen sees more Republicans than CNN, but I doubt you'll find them above the mid-30s on a non-forced approval question.

    A Tea Party candidate for POTUS could certainly make it into the 30s, maybe even the low 40s.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    DavidL said:

    I would agree that 12 SNP seats is too high although I think they will increase their number gaining some of the Lib Dem seats up for grabs.

    There is a chance that they might also gain the odd seat off Labour but most of SLABs seats are very safe. In Dundee West, for example, which is a very strong area for the SNP generally and where they hold the Scottish Parliamentary seat, Labour got almost as many votes at the last election as the SNP, Lib Dem and tory put together. It really would require something remarkable to change that.

    Surely the number of SNP seats will turn on the Referendum result. Lose badly, and they'll probably go backwards. Lose narrowly, and the result will probably be as you suggest. Win, and they'll sweep the board.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    Roger said:

    Calling Hunchman. Calling Hunchman. FT index at an all time high. There must be some mistake. We need guidance...

    If Hunchman was right, we'd now be roasting bits of dog over braziers.

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    Sean_F said:

    Surely the number of SNP seats will turn on the Referendum result. Lose badly, and they'll probably go backwards. Lose narrowly, and the result will probably be as you suggest. Win, and they'll sweep the board.

    Depends who they wish to negotiate with, no: Cameron and his English lowlanders or Divided Ed and his Glasgae union bosses? Surely the latter would give-up the North Sea in order to spite them-their Engerlisch folk...?
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Calling Hunchman. Calling Hunchman. FT index at an all time high. There must be some mistake. We need guidance...

    If Hunchman was right, we'd now be roasting bits of dog over braziers.

    Hunchman will be right eventually.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,161

    Oh dear, not good news for the Grand Soviet of the Heroes of the Armed-Wing of the Labour Party.

    Ninety-one per cent of police officers believe it is time for the organisation that represents them, the Police Federation, to change, an independent review has suggested.

    The survey of 12,500 police officers also found 64% are dissatisfied with the performance of the federation.
    Support an unspecified change, do they? Anthony Wells has a good post about polling questions like that.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/8286

    I'm imagining him writing it then going through it again later editing out the swears.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    Captain Underpants in spat with fellow Old Cheltonian and Lib Dem MP, Martin Horwood:

    "Chris and I did indeed sit next to each other in English classes many moons ago,” he informed me. “We studied Macbeth and Chaucer’s The Miller’s Tale, from memory. At least one of those was a guide to politics of a kind. In those days, Chris was more interested in theatre than politics. Arguably, he still is."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10412322/Chris-Bryant-in-a-schoolboy-spat-with-Martin-Horwood.html
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Neil said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    Calling Hunchman. Calling Hunchman. FT index at an all time high. There must be some mistake. We need guidance...

    If Hunchman was right, we'd now be roasting bits of dog over braziers.

    Hunchman will be right eventually.
    Hunchman forecast a collapse of the stock markets in August . That was a specific forecast that will never ever be correct except in a parallel universe . What will be interesting is how he explains how he made loads of money personally despite being wrong ..
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @MarkSenior

    What I meant is that if you consistently forecast a market collapse for long enough you will eventually be right. Hunchman's misfortune has been to be forecasting one all the way through a longish bull run. The stars must not have been in alignment. Or the waves were disrupted. But he always posts with such good grace so he is a favourite contributor of mine.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,161
    OT do we reckon McAuliffe is nailed on now or is there still a chance of an upset? There's a little bit left below 90%:

    https://www.predictious.com/politics/virginia-gubernatorial-election-2013/terry-mcauliffe
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    RandomRandom Posts: 107



    They're not polling supporter or not, they're polling a forced choice of tea party against Obama.

    Only for the headline figure. The down-poll questions appear to be just about the Tea Party
    If you do a straight approval question you get more like 31% support, eg
    http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politics/cnn-poll-congress-approval/

    Admittedly that was during the shutdown and Rasmussen sees more Republicans than CNN, but I doubt you'll find them above the mid-30s on a non-forced approval question.
    Rasmussen is more up to date (polling done Oct 26th-26th). And asking straight approval questions is distorted by the fact that registered Democrats - who are unlikely to vote Republican almost regardless of who the candidate is - absolutely loathe the Tea Party, by much larger margins than registered Republicans support it. The key numbers, given we were constantly being told last night that the Republicans need to reach out to the centre ground to stand the chance are surely the unaffiliateds, and Rasmussen shows they break in favour of the Tea Party.


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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited October 2013
    with markets, its sometimes a good idea to look at conventional wisdom and then do the opposite. Absolutely nobody called the 2008 banking crisis, not even the off the chart contrarians

    Nobody is predicting a big surge in equities that will blast away previous records and herald 'the return of the stock' as a real hot investment item.

    So that may well happen. It hasn't happened since pre 87 and all markets are cyclical.

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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291

    Captain Underpants in spat with fellow Old Cheltonian and Lib Dem MP, Martin Horwood:

    "Chris and I did indeed sit next to each other in English classes many moons ago,” he informed me. “We studied Macbeth and Chaucer’s The Miller’s Tale, from memory. At least one of those was a guide to politics of a kind. In those days, Chris was more interested in theatre than politics. Arguably, he still is."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10412322/Chris-Bryant-in-a-schoolboy-spat-with-Martin-Horwood.html

    Nothing to fear, nothing to hide...unless you are a Labour front bencher who airbrushes the CV to omit references to his (or her) schooling.
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    Looks like the Education debate might be fun this afternoon

    The substantive motion, in the name of the Leader of the Oppoisition, is '[t]hat this House endorses the view that in state funded schools teachers should be qualified or working towards qualified teacher status while they are teaching.' Given the recent speech by the Deputy Prime Minister, it will be difficult to see how the Liberal Democrats can plausibly oppose the substantive motion.

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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Random said:

    and Rasmussen shows they break in favour of the Tea Party.

    And yet disastrous Tea Party candidates have cost the GOP the Senate over the last couple of cycles by losing almost unloseable elections.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013

    Looks like the Education debate might be fun this afternoon

    The substantive motion, in the name of the Leader of the Oppoisition, is '[t]hat this House endorses the view that in state funded schools teachers should be qualified or working towards qualified teacher status while they are teaching.' Given the recent speech by the Deputy Prime Minister, it will be difficult to see how the Liberal Democrats can plausibly oppose the substantive motion.

    Hard to see how anyone could oppose that.

    However, it doesn't address the actual point, which is whether teachers should exclusively be drawn from those with a specific named UK qualification, with no discretion given to head teachers and governors at all.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Not bloody Rasmussen !!!

    ARG !!! .... and not them either !!!
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,161
    Random said:

    The key numbers, given we were constantly being told last night that the Republicans need to reach out to the centre ground to stand the chance are surely the unaffiliateds, and Rasmussen shows they break in favour of the Tea Party.

    It was never safe to assume people identifying as independent were in the centre. Romney won them by 5 points even as he lost to Obama by 3. But it's even less so after the Republicans caved on the shutdown, because some Tea Party people are narked off enough not to identify as Republican any more. That doesn't mean they're swing voters who might vote for Hillary in 2016.
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    RandomRandom Posts: 107
    Neil said:

    Random said:

    and Rasmussen shows they break in favour of the Tea Party.

    And yet disastrous Tea Party candidates have cost the GOP the Senate over the last couple of cycles by losing almost unloseable elections.
    I would suggest the key word there is "disastrous" rather than "Tea Party". The likes of Christine O'Donnell would lose regardless of the label they ran under.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    dr_spyn said:

    Captain Underpants in spat with fellow Old Cheltonian and Lib Dem MP, Martin Horwood:

    "Chris and I did indeed sit next to each other in English classes many moons ago,” he informed me. “We studied Macbeth and Chaucer’s The Miller’s Tale, from memory. At least one of those was a guide to politics of a kind. In those days, Chris was more interested in theatre than politics. Arguably, he still is."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10412322/Chris-Bryant-in-a-schoolboy-spat-with-Martin-Horwood.html

    Nothing to fear, nothing to hide...unless you are a Labour front bencher who airbrushes the CV to omit references to his (or her) schooling.
    Cheltenham Boys College eh? That's reet posh.
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    Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited October 2013

    Hard to see how anyone could oppose that.

    However, it doesn't address the actual point, which is whether teachers should exclusively be drawn from those with a specific named UK qualification, with no discretion to head teachers and governors at all.

    It must follow from the unsuccessful attempt to amend the opposition motion that Her Majesty's Government (or at least the Conservative Party) intends to vote against it.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Daily Politics - A la Blackadder is Hunky Dinky Dunky going to put the knitting needles up his nose and claim to be mad !!
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''And yet disastrous Tea Party candidates have cost the GOP the Senate over the last couple of cycles by losing almost unloseable elections. ''

    Are the tea party really about winning elections? they surely know they'll never take real power in America.

    Its all about circling the wagons isn't it? Custer's last stand? that sort of thing?
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    o/t - Suspicions that the Irish Labour party leader's wish to hold a gay marriage referendum in Ireland in 2014 may not be delivered. That would be a shame as Paddy Power gave very generous odds on it earlier in the year.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/same-sex-union-referendum-to-pose-problems-for-fine-gael-1.1577316
This discussion has been closed.