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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,261
    O'Rourke might have engendered a degree of resentment amongst Democrats, but he can certainly fundraise...
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/434482-orourke-raises-61m-on-campaigns-first-day-exceeding-all-rivals
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683

    Sky reporting Olly Robins to be sacked

    Seems a bit late to me

    Quite. What's he done wrong? The deal he negotiated is the one that the government insists is optimal.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Sky reporting Olly Robins to be sacked

    Seems a bit late to me

    About 18 months too late. He was the brains behind the two massive defeats on the deal he brought to Parliament. Name any other organisation than the Civil Service where you would still be in a job after such an unholy failure to perform.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    Scott_P said:
    Wow. How long is long? We're surely talking about a year to eighteen months here.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Long extension runs out just as Lab (under Jezza or someone else) can blame the mayhem on the Cons and sweep to victory.

    Oh and drinks are on @williamglenn
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited March 2019
    Amazing to think that as things stand we leave the EU NEXT WEEK deal or no deal!!! :open_mouth:
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    Sky reporting Olly Robins to be sacked

    Seems a bit late to me

    Quite. What's he done wrong? The deal he negotiated is the one that the government insists is optimal.
    He tried to face the reality of Mays red lines . He’s not a miracle worker and the ERG want his head on a stake for not believing enough in unicorns .
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Scott_P said:
    Further proof that Brexit is a disaster and national humiliation.

    The French are laughing at us.
    That brexit metaphor gif of the guy trying to cross a plastic traffic wall and knocking the whole thing over in a great 100m-long cascade then trying to pick it up again has been showing up among unpolitical people in my Japanese twitter stream, laughing at brexit seems to have quite a lot of international traction at this point.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    nico67 said:

    Sky reporting Olly Robins to be sacked

    Seems a bit late to me

    Quite. What's he done wrong? The deal he negotiated is the one that the government insists is optimal.
    He tried to face the reality of Mays red lines . He’s not a miracle worker and the ERG want his head on a stake for not believing enough in unicorns .
    Where can we pre-order his book?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Interesting . This looks like the last chance for the deal and the final push to get MPs to agree . I expect May to resign after getting the extension and say a new leader needs to reset the negotiations .
    But the Commons will at that point take over anyway. So end of Brexit.

    Good riddance.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Sky reporting Olly Robins to be sacked

    Seems a bit late to me

    Quite. What's he done wrong? The deal he negotiated is the one that the government insists is optimal.
    The deal he negotiated is the one we've got. Nothing more.

    Both sides of the House blew it a very loud rapsberry. The loudest ever heard in the Chamber.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited March 2019
    If the below posts prove correct then the only thing now saving Brexit is Jeremy Corbyn. If he tables a No Confidence motion it will unite the Tories behind a new leader.

    Which might be what he wants.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2019
    The 2nd ref petition is on 96,700 signatures.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/235138
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited March 2019
    She'd better do a shrug. She owes the nation a shrug.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387

    Sean_F said:

    Utterly delusional. "If Britain leaves the European Union as planned on 29 March" . . . do the maths, that if is not going to happen!

    At least I say I'm OK with Remain or an extension over May's deal. These guys are just insane.
    It is really staggering that people can be elected to parliament and yet be sooo incredibly stupid. There really ought to be IQ and aptitude tests. After all companies use them and so do the civil service as part of selection criteria. Maybe Corbyn will not want it done retrospectively tho!!
    It's possible for someone to be highly intelligent and also to subordinate their intelligence to self-interest, passion, pique, and peer pressure.
    Indeed. A minority of them on both sides of the house are just plain old thickos though. It isn't good enough.
    Guto Bebb is plainly thick.
    It couldn't have been achieved without the efforts of the ERG.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497

    Sean_F said:

    Utterly delusional. "If Britain leaves the European Union as planned on 29 March" . . . do the maths, that if is not going to happen!

    At least I say I'm OK with Remain or an extension over May's deal. These guys are just insane.
    It is really staggering that people can be elected to parliament and yet be sooo incredibly stupid. There really ought to be IQ and aptitude tests. After all companies use them and so do the civil service as part of selection criteria. Maybe Corbyn will not want it done retrospectively tho!!
    It's possible for someone to be highly intelligent and also to subordinate their intelligence to self-interest, passion, pique, and peer pressure.
    Indeed. A minority of them on both sides of the house are just plain old thickos though. It isn't good enough.
    Well, the House ought to be representative of the Nation. Or so we are told!
    Yes indeed. There are at least half the voting electorate (or about 37% of the total) that think we have had enough of experts. However, if I need a hip operation I think I might want to be sure the surgeon knows what she/he is doing. I'd also prefer MPs to have a reasonable ability to pass a logic test!
    I am going into hospital on Thursday for an operation on my spine, and I have been telling myself that the surgeon’s done thousands of op’s, probably 100’s like this one, and anyway he won’t be working alone.
    See also my comment on Peter Bone's education.

    So I agree with you about experts.
  • Separate reports of shots at a mosque in Utrecht
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,261

    Sky reporting Olly Robins to be sacked

    Seems a bit late to me

    Quite. What's he done wrong? The deal he negotiated is the one that the government insists is optimal.
    The deal he negotiated is the one we've got. Nothing more.

    Both sides of the House blew it a very loud rapsberry. The loudest ever heard in the Chamber.
    The only thing really wrong with the deal was May's red lines. Given those, it's hard to see anyone doing any better.
    Still, it wouldn't be the first time a subordinate took the fall for her.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    excellent news

    we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
    I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
    Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
    Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).

    I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
    Scots do not get St Andrews day as a holiday, usual whining from southerners spouting lies as ever about how they are hard done by rather than coddled at the expense of the rest of us..
  • If the below posts prove correct then the only thing now saving Brexit is Jeremy Corbyn. If he tables a No Confidence motion it will unite the Tories behind a new leader.

    Which might be what he wants.

    TIG and Lib Dems will not support a vonc
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Scott_P said:
    Further proof that Brexit is a disaster and national humiliation.

    The French are laughing at us.
    That brexit metaphor gif of the guy trying to cross a plastic traffic wall and knocking the whole thing over in a great 100m-long cascade then trying to pick it up again has been showing up among unpolitical people in my Japanese twitter stream, laughing at brexit seems to have quite a lot of international traction at this point.
    “Roy, what the f*ck is going on in your country?” was how a co-worker greeted me the other morning...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    Sky reporting Olly Robins to be sacked

    Seems a bit late to me

    Quite. What's he done wrong? The deal he negotiated is the one that the government insists is optimal.
    The deal he negotiated is the one we've got. Nothing more.

    Both sides of the House blew it a very loud rapsberry. The loudest ever heard in the Chamber.
    The only thing really wrong with the deal was May's red lines. Given those, it's hard to see anyone doing any better.
    Still, it wouldn't be the first time a subordinate took the fall for her.
    The red lines were entirely reasonable. The backstop is not.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    If the below posts prove correct then the only thing now saving Brexit is Jeremy Corbyn. If he tables a No Confidence motion it will unite the Tories behind a new leader.

    Which might be what he wants.

    TIG and Lib Dems will not support a vonc
    I know. I said, it's the one thing which will unite the Tories.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Interesting . This looks like the last chance for the deal and the final push to get MPs to agree . I expect May to resign after getting the extension and say a new leader needs to reset the negotiations .
    Is that "expect" a "think she will" expect or a "think she should"? If it's "think she will", I think that would be out of character.
  • Sean_F said:

    Utterly delusional. "If Britain leaves the European Union as planned on 29 March" . . . do the maths, that if is not going to happen!

    At least I say I'm OK with Remain or an extension over May's deal. These guys are just insane.
    It is really staggering that people can be elected to parliament and yet be sooo incredibly stupid. There really ought to be IQ and aptitude tests. After all companies use them and so do the civil service as part of selection criteria. Maybe Corbyn will not want it done retrospectively tho!!
    It's possible for someone to be highly intelligent and also to subordinate their intelligence to self-interest, passion, pique, and peer pressure.
    Indeed. A minority of them on both sides of the house are just plain old thickos though. It isn't good enough.
    Well, the House ought to be representative of the Nation. Or so we are told!
    Yes indeed. There are at least half the voting electorate (or about 37% of the total) that think we have had enough of experts. However, if I need a hip operation I think I might want to be sure the surgeon knows what she/he is doing. I'd also prefer MPs to have a reasonable ability to pass a logic test!
    I am going into hospital on Thursday for an operation on my spine, and I have been telling myself that the surgeon’s done thousands of op’s, probably 100’s like this one, and anyway he won’t be working alone.
    See also my comment on Peter Bone's education.

    So I agree with you about experts.
    All the very best for Thursday OKC
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    Nigelb said:

    Sky reporting Olly Robins to be sacked

    Seems a bit late to me

    Quite. What's he done wrong? The deal he negotiated is the one that the government insists is optimal.
    The deal he negotiated is the one we've got. Nothing more.

    Both sides of the House blew it a very loud rapsberry. The loudest ever heard in the Chamber.
    The only thing really wrong with the deal was May's red lines. Given those, it's hard to see anyone doing any better.
    Still, it wouldn't be the first time a subordinate took the fall for her.
    The red lines were entirely reasonable. The backstop is not.
    The backstop issue came about because of her red lines .

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Sky reporting Olly Robins to be sacked

    Seems a bit late to me

    About 18 months too late. He was the brains behind the two massive defeats on the deal he brought to Parliament. Name any other organisation than the Civil Service where you would still be in a job after such an unholy failure to perform.
    Theresa May brought it to Parliament. Twice.

    The rest of the post I agree with, but the buck stops with May not her subordinate. She should go.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    malcolmg said:

    excellent news

    we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
    I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
    Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
    Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).

    I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
    Scots do not get St Andrews day as a holiday, usual whining from southerners spouting lies as ever about how they are hard done by rather than coddled at the expense of the rest of us..
    Says here they do - 30 November (or 2 December if 30 November falls on a weekend). Are you actually Scottish?

    https://www.gov.scot/publications/bank-holidays/
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2019
    Has anyone informed Theresa May that a slight problem with holding two more meaningful votes is that there are only 270 hours to go to No Deal?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Interesting . This looks like the last chance for the deal and the final push to get MPs to agree . I expect May to resign after getting the extension and say a new leader needs to reset the negotiations .
    Good. Lets do that then. Full leadership contest going to the members to replace her.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    TOPPING said:

    nico67 said:

    Sky reporting Olly Robins to be sacked

    Seems a bit late to me

    Quite. What's he done wrong? The deal he negotiated is the one that the government insists is optimal.
    He tried to face the reality of Mays red lines . He’s not a miracle worker and the ERG want his head on a stake for not believing enough in unicorns .
    Where can we pre-order his book?
    Buy, buy, buy!
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    Separate reports of shots at a mosque in Utrecht

    It looks as if the Dutch Police have got to someone.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    I've been saying for many, many months that this goes down to the last 48 hours.

    Tis the EU way.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    nico67 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sky reporting Olly Robins to be sacked

    Seems a bit late to me

    Quite. What's he done wrong? The deal he negotiated is the one that the government insists is optimal.
    The deal he negotiated is the one we've got. Nothing more.

    Both sides of the House blew it a very loud rapsberry. The loudest ever heard in the Chamber.
    The only thing really wrong with the deal was May's red lines. Given those, it's hard to see anyone doing any better.
    Still, it wouldn't be the first time a subordinate took the fall for her.
    The red lines were entirely reasonable. The backstop is not.
    The backstop issue came about because of her red lines .

    No it did not. None of her red lines required the backstop. There are a plethora of nations which trade with the EU honouring her red lines.
  • AndyJS said:

    Has anyone informed Theresa May that a slight problem with holding two more meaningful votes is that there are only 270 hours to go to No Deal?

    If there is an extension it is possible, but not likely, TM could hold several MV's
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    Scott_P said:
    I guess the EU will grant an extension of an unspecified length with review points, every 6 months say. There is no reasonable hope of this UK parliament being able to settle on any form of withdrawal deal.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,580
    Nigelb said:

    Wow, the resort to Ad Hominem. If only you knew ... but I'll keep my powder dry.

    I envisage a more informed debate and vote in which various options, perhaps with AV - STV - is in place.

    So not a repeat. At all.

    Mind you, not that this would be a bad thing anyway. Your argument is like saying that because Clem Attlee won a landslide in 1945 we should still have a massive Labour majority. Part of the art of democracy is enabling litmus tests of public mood. Clearly much has altered in the last three years.

    To be frank, your intransigence about offering the deal back to the public demonstrates to me that you've lost the argument and, with it, the public.

    Ad hominem in response to Ad hominem. So you have no cause to moan.

    And no, again you show you idiocy. When we elect MPs they go into office. The result of the election is respected. We then have a system whereby after a period of time we re-elect them or not.

    What you are saying is that if, for example, a few more people had voted for Labour MPs at the last election as a means of limiting May's majority (as lots of people seem to claim was the reason) and we had happened to get a Corbyn majority, we should have immediately had another election before he took office because we hadn't actually wanted Corbyn to win.

    Of course that is not how the system does or should work. If the public are asked a question in a vote they have every right to expect that the result of that vote will be respected. Otherwise how are they to believe that democracy has any value at all?
    Except the system for electing MPs does allow for recall votes in some circumstances...

    If sufficient people feel that their leave vote was a result of being lied to, and they deeply regret it, then one might make a case that forcing them to 'respect' the result of that vote is equally toxic to their view of democracy.

    Nope. There is no recall mechanism for an MP just because the electorate didn't like the result of the election or thought they had been lied to. And certainly none that would be enacted before the MP had taken their seat.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Sean_F said:

    Utterly delusional. "If Britain leaves the European Union as planned on 29 March" . . . do the maths, that if is not going to happen!

    At least I say I'm OK with Remain or an extension over May's deal. These guys are just insane.
    It is really staggering that people can be elected to parliament and yet be sooo incredibly stupid. There really ought to be IQ and aptitude tests. After all companies use them and so do the civil service as part of selection criteria. Maybe Corbyn will not want it done retrospectively tho!!
    It's possible for someone to be highly intelligent and also to subordinate their intelligence to self-interest, passion, pique, and peer pressure.
    Indeed. A minority of them on both sides of the house are just plain old thickos though. It isn't good enough.
    Well, the House ought to be representative of the Nation. Or so we are told!
    Yes indeed. There are at least half the voting electorate (or about 37% of the total) that think we have had enough of experts. However, if I need a hip operation I think I might want to be sure the surgeon knows what she/he is doing. I'd also prefer MPs to have a reasonable ability to pass a logic test!
    I am going into hospital on Thursday for an operation on my spine, and I have been telling myself that the surgeon’s done thousands of op’s, probably 100’s like this one, and anyway he won’t be working alone.
    See also my comment on Peter Bone's education.

    So I agree with you about experts.
    Best wishes for your op, OKC.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    King Cole, best of luck :)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Good luck King Cole.
  • Scott_P said:
    I guess the EU will grant an extension of an unspecified length with review points, every 6 months say. There is no reasonable hope of this UK parliament being able to settle on any form of withdrawal deal.
    And of course UK would be a full member requiring participation in EU elections next month and full EU involvement. Any restriction by the EU would lead to ECJ challenges
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Scott_P said:
    I guess the EU will grant an extension of an unspecified length with review points, every 6 months say. There is no reasonable hope of this UK parliament being able to settle on any form of withdrawal deal.
    And of course UK would be a full member requiring participation in EU elections next month and full EU involvement. Any restriction by the EU would lead to ECJ challenges
    Those will be 'fun' when they happen.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    Scott_P said:
    If you find that something hinges on the DUP, that's our constitutions little way of telling you the something has gone badly wrong and you need to think again.

    Can we please just cut the crap, get a decent extension, ditch May and try another approach.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    If the below posts prove correct then the only thing now saving Brexit is Jeremy Corbyn. If he tables a No Confidence motion it will unite the Tories behind a new leader.

    Which might be what he wants.

    TIG and Lib Dems will not support a vonc
    TIG- probably not. Lib Dems I'm not so sure, especially if Labour have voted in favour of a 2nd ref by that point
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Scott_P said:
    Wow. How long is long? We're surely talking about a year to eighteen months here.
    Well, 8 months to get rid of May, then time for the new PM to start over.....
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    Separate reports of shots at a mosque in Utrecht

    By the way, that report is far from confirmed.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Best wishes, OKC
  • Y0kel said:

    Separate reports of shots at a mosque in Utrecht

    By the way, that report is far from confirmed.
    Sky just repeated unconfirmed reports, so yes
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,621

    Scott_P said:
    Wow. How long is long? We're surely talking about a year to eighteen months here.
    Plus European elections of MEPs. That'll be fun - really.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    If you find that something hinges on the DUP, that's our constitutions little way of telling you the something has gone badly wrong and you need to think again.

    Can we please just cut the crap, get a decent extension, ditch May and try another approach.
    I think you'll find thats how the system works in parliament, in a no single party majority you depend on minor parties.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683

    Scott_P said:
    I guess the EU will grant an extension of an unspecified length with review points, every 6 months say. There is no reasonable hope of this UK parliament being able to settle on any form of withdrawal deal.
    And of course UK would be a full member requiring participation in EU elections next month and full EU involvement. Any restriction by the EU would lead to ECJ challenges
    The UK's participating in next month's EU elections would be quite a hoot. I wonder if the Leavers will urge some kind of boycott, so that the result can be easily discredited.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    Sean_F said:

    Utterly delusional. "If Britain leaves the European Union as planned on 29 March" . . . do the maths, that if is not going to happen!

    At least I say I'm OK with Remain or an extension over May's deal. These guys are just insane.
    It is really staggering that people can be elected to parliament and yet be sooo incredibly stupid. There really ought to be IQ and aptitude tests. After all companies use them and so do the civil service as part of selection criteria. Maybe Corbyn will not want it done retrospectively tho!!
    It's possible for someone to be highly intelligent and also to subordinate their intelligence to self-interest, passion, pique, and peer pressure.
    Indeed. A minority of them on both sides of the house are just plain old thickos though. It isn't good enough.
    Well, the House ought to be representative of the Nation. Or so we are told!
    Yes indeed. There are at least half the voting electorate (or about 37% of the total) that think we have had enough of experts. However, if I need a hip operation I think I might want to be sure the surgeon knows what she/he is doing. I'd also prefer MPs to have a reasonable ability to pass a logic test!
    I am going into hospital on Thursday for an operation on my spine, and I have been telling myself that the surgeon’s done thousands of op’s, probably 100’s like this one, and anyway he won’t be working alone.
    See also my comment on Peter Bone's education.

    So I agree with you about experts.
    Good luck OKC. :)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Scott_P said:
    Wow. How long is long? We're surely talking about a year to eighteen months here.
    Well, 8 months to get rid of May, then time for the new PM to start over.....
    Extremely doubtful May survives 8 months. If there's a long extension she'll struggle in reality to stay hours past signing the extension into law.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    He still hasn't worked out that Parliament does not have a majority in favour of No Deal.
    Does it need a majority when No Deal on the 29th of March is the law?
    It does, if the government requests, and is granted an extension?
    Yes because TMay's (unilateral if need be) asking for an extension would be complying with Parliament's instruction not to have no deal.
    Now, things become interesting if the EU says No. But, I don't think that's probable.
    Yes, it means the PM would have to pull the revoke lever.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Foxy said:
    Its not just phrasing, one is specifically without a deal the other is not.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    He still hasn't worked out that Parliament does not have a majority in favour of No Deal.
    Does it need a majority when No Deal on the 29th of March is the law?
    It does, if the government requests, and is granted an extension?
    Yes because TMay's (unilateral if need be) asking for an extension would be complying with Parliament's instruction not to have no deal.
    Now, things become interesting if the EU says No. But, I don't think that's probable.
    Yes, it means the PM would have to pull the revoke lever.
    She'd probably try another MV. Which would be interesting because a lot of the ERG would swing back into the No column, and she'd be trying to pitch to Remainers/Soft Brexiters. But how to convince the Remainers that she wouldn't fall back to a 2nd ref or revoke as her next option?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,149
    edited March 2019
    Foxy said:
    Looks like that sums up brexit. Confusion reigns
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    edited March 2019

    malcolmg said:

    excellent news

    we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
    I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
    Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
    Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).

    I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
    Scots do not get St Andrews day as a holiday, usual whining from southerners spouting lies as ever about how they are hard done by rather than coddled at the expense of the rest of us..
    Says here they do - 30 November (or 2 December if 30 November falls on a weekend). Are you actually Scottish?

    https://www.gov.scot/publications/bank-holidays/
    Yes you turnip and given I live in Scotland and do not know anyone who gets it as a holiday , I am a bit of an expert. May be a few coddled public service workers get it but not the majority of workers for certain.
    St Andrew's Day: 30 November

    St Andrew's Day was declared a bank holiday by the Scottish Parliament in 2006, although banks are not required to close if they do not wish to. If 30 November occurs on a weekend, the bank holiday is moved to the following Monday.

    Employers are not required by law to give employees a holiday on the St Andrew's Day bank holiday.
  • Sky breaking news

    Dutch counter terrorism co-ordinator says shots have been fired at several locations and the gunman is on the run
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722

    Foxy said:
    Looks like that sums up brexit. Confusion reigns
    More like con-fission reigns.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Y0kel said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    If you find that something hinges on the DUP, that's our constitutions little way of telling you the something has gone badly wrong and you need to think again.

    Can we please just cut the crap, get a decent extension, ditch May and try another approach.
    I think you'll find thats how the system works in parliament, in a no single party majority you depend on minor parties.
    Yes nasty Tories bribing a bunch of nutters, great system.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    excellent news

    we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
    I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
    Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
    Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).

    I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
    Scots do not get St Andrews day as a holiday, usual whining from southerners spouting lies as ever about how they are hard done by rather than coddled at the expense of the rest of us..
    Says here they do - 30 November (or 2 December if 30 November falls on a weekend). Are you actually Scottish?

    https://www.gov.scot/publications/bank-holidays/
    Yes you turnip and given I live in Scotland and do not know anyone who gets it as a holiday , I am a bit of an expert. May be a few coddled public service workers get it but not the majority of workers for certain.
    Fair enough.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Foxy said:
    YouGov, Survation and Opinium have all shown a swing back towards Labour in the last few days (though still significant leads for the Tories in all but Survation!). Wonder if that's a reaction to latest news events or the TIG effect wearing off. Would be interesting to get a few more polls where TIG are explicitly mentioned as an option.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Scott_P said:
    If true, that is hugely unfair. He is a civil servant. She is the PM. She should take responsibility. Little wonder she can't create or keep a team if that is how she treats those who work for her.
  • malcolmg said:

    Y0kel said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    If you find that something hinges on the DUP, that's our constitutions little way of telling you the something has gone badly wrong and you need to think again.

    Can we please just cut the crap, get a decent extension, ditch May and try another approach.
    I think you'll find thats how the system works in parliament, in a no single party majority you depend on minor parties.
    Yes nasty Tories bribing a bunch of nutters, great system.
    I haven't bribed anyone Malc
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    Scott_P said:
    Wow. How long is long? We're surely talking about a year to eighteen months here.
    Well, 8 months to get rid of May, then time for the new PM to start over.....
    Extremely doubtful May survives 8 months. If there's a long extension she'll struggle in reality to stay hours past signing the extension into law.
    Even if the MV passes I think May will face heavy pressure from the Cabinet and ERG to go immediately.

    But I agree if there is a long extension we will be into an early Tory leadership contest and, depending on the outcome, a general election could follow.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited March 2019
    Jonathan said:


    Can we please just cut the crap, get a decent extension, ditch May and try another approach.


    Honestly, what difference would it make? The hardcore ERG won't vote for anything short of a 100% break from the EU. Corbyn won't vote for anything the Tories propose, regardless of the damage caused.

    That doesn't leave much of an overlap to get anything passed.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    Scott_P said:
    I guess the EU will grant an extension of an unspecified length with review points, every 6 months say. There is no reasonable hope of this UK parliament being able to settle on any form of withdrawal deal.
    And of course UK would be a full member requiring participation in EU elections next month and full EU involvement. Any restriction by the EU would lead to ECJ challenges
    The UK's participating in next month's EU elections would be quite a hoot. I wonder if the Leavers will urge some kind of boycott, so that the result can be easily discredited.
    What? And miss out on the salary and expenses?
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Foxy said:
    YouGov, Survation and Opinium have all shown a swing back towards Labour in the last few days (though still significant leads for the Tories in all but Survation!). Wonder if that's a reaction to latest news events or the TIG effect wearing off. Would be interesting to get a few more polls where TIG are explicitly mentioned as an option.
    Actually, in all cases it's been reductions in Con numbers driving it, not increases in Lab. So probably not due to TIGgers switching back to Lab.

    Could also just be random noise, but very similar swings in 3 polls.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sean_F said:

    For those that are interested, here are 37 Conservative MPs who I currently expect to vote against any revival of the meaningful vote (the first 31 are ERGonauts, the next six are from the Remain wing of the party):

    Adam Afriyie (Windsor)
    Lucy Allan (Telford)
    Steve Baker (Wycombe)
    Crispin Blunt (Reigate)
    Peter Bone (Wellingborough)
    Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire)
    Conor Burns (Bournemouth West)
    Christopher Chope (Christchurch)
    Richard Drax (South Dorset)
    James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East)
    Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford)
    Marcus Fysh (Yeovil)
    Chris Green (Bolton West)
    Philip Hollobone (Kettering)
    Adam Holloway (Gravesham)
    Ranil Jayawardena (North East Hampshire)
    Andrea Jenkyns (Morley and Outwood)
    Boris Johnson (Uxbridge and South Ruislip)
    David Jones (Clwyd West)
    Julian Lewis (New Forest East)
    Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet)
    Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall)
    Priti Patel (Witham)
    Owen Paterson (North Shropshire)
    John Redwood (Wokingham)
    Andrew Rosindell (Romford)
    Henry Smith (Crawley)
    Royston Smith (Southampton Itchen)
    Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South)
    Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole)
    Anne-Marie Trevelyan (Berwick-upon-Tweed)

    Guto Bebb (Aberconwy)
    Justine Greening (Putney)
    Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield)
    Sam Gyimah (East Surrey)
    Joseph Johnson (Orpington)
    Phillip Lee (Bracknell)


    Notable omissions include Bill Cash, John Baron, Dominic Raab and Bernard Jenkin, all of whom have been quiet recently so far as I can tell.

    That seems about right, save that I think Lucy Allan has switched.
    Possibly Chris Green too.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    edited March 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    If true, that is hugely unfair. He is a civil servant. She is the PM. She should take responsibility. Little wonder she can't create or keep a team if that is how she treats those who work for her.
    The point is, he is overseen one negotiation, the outcome of which has been disastrously badly received. He can't be within a hundred miles of the REALLY important negotiations on the trade arrangements.

    The corollary of this is that neither can the PM.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    excellent news

    we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
    I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
    Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
    Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).

    I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
    Scots do not get St Andrews day as a holiday, usual whining from southerners spouting lies as ever about how they are hard done by rather than coddled at the expense of the rest of us..
    Says here they do - 30 November (or 2 December if 30 November falls on a weekend). Are you actually Scottish?

    https://www.gov.scot/publications/bank-holidays/
    Yes you turnip and given I live in Scotland and do not know anyone who gets it as a holiday , I am a bit of an expert. May be a few coddled public service workers get it but not the majority of workers for certain.
    Fair enough.
    It is just a con , as per my PS, it is voluntary for banks and employers so just symbolic rubbish. I doubt anyone other than some public sector workers , if at all get it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    Y0kel said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    If you find that something hinges on the DUP, that's our constitutions little way of telling you the something has gone badly wrong and you need to think again.

    Can we please just cut the crap, get a decent extension, ditch May and try another approach.
    I think you'll find thats how the system works in parliament, in a no single party majority you depend on minor parties.
    Yes nasty Tories bribing a bunch of nutters, great system.
    I haven't bribed anyone Malc
    Of course not G, I am just in a ranting mood today.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    If true, that is hugely unfair. He is a civil servant. She is the PM. She should take responsibility. Little wonder she can't create or keep a team if that is how she treats those who work for her.
    Quite. What is distasteful to me is the "No 10 is telling MPs that .. " bit. She should not be doing this as a sacrificial offer in a bargaining game with her MPs.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    Sean_F said:

    Utterly delusional. "If Britain leaves the European Union as planned on 29 March" . . . do the maths, that if is not going to happen!

    At least I say I'm OK with Remain or an extension over May's deal. These guys are just insane.
    It is really staggering that people can be elected to parliament and yet be sooo incredibly stupid. There really ought to be IQ and aptitude tests. After all companies use them and so do the civil service as part of selection criteria. Maybe Corbyn will not want it done retrospectively tho!!
    It's possible for someone to be highly intelligent and also to subordinate their intelligence to self-interest, passion, pique, and peer pressure.
    Indeed. A minority of them on both sides of the house are just plain old thickos though. It isn't good enough.
    Well, the House ought to be representative of the Nation. Or so we are told!
    Yes indeed. There are at least half the voting electorate (or about 37% of the total) that think we have had enough of experts. However, if I need a hip operation I think I might want to be sure the surgeon knows what she/he is doing. I'd also prefer MPs to have a reasonable ability to pass a logic test!
    I am going into hospital on Thursday for an operation on my spine,
    Are you donating it to the PM?

    Good luck!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    I see the truth of the state propaganda unit is coming out , as if we did not know.
    That balloon Robinson was among the worst of them.
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17507633.bbc-journalists-were-out-to-prove-yes-vote-was-foolish-during-indyref/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497
    Many thanks, colleagues, for the good wishes. I hope only to be in for a few days.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Scott_P said:
    Wow. How long is long? We're surely talking about a year to eighteen months here.
    Well, 8 months to get rid of May, then time for the new PM to start over.....
    Extremely doubtful May survives 8 months. If there's a long extension she'll struggle in reality to stay hours past signing the extension into law.
    We can hope. But the limpet genes are strong with this one......
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    excellent news

    we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
    I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
    Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
    Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).

    I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
    Scots do not get St Andrews day as a holiday, usual whining from southerners spouting lies as ever about how they are hard done by rather than coddled at the expense of the rest of us..
    Says here they do - 30 November (or 2 December if 30 November falls on a weekend). Are you actually Scottish?

    https://www.gov.scot/publications/bank-holidays/
    Yes you turnip and given I live in Scotland and do not know anyone who gets it as a holiday , I am a bit of an expert. May be a few coddled public service workers get it but not the majority of workers for certain.
    Fair enough.
    Apologies for being rude to you.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,497
    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    If true, that is hugely unfair. He is a civil servant. She is the PM. She should take responsibility. Little wonder she can't create or keep a team if that is how she treats those who work for her.
    Quite. What is distasteful to me is the "No 10 is telling MPs that .. " bit. She should not be doing this as a sacrificial offer in a bargaining game with her MPs.
    She did the same with her advisors after the GE, did she not. What happened to Harry Truman's 'Buck stops Here" desk notice?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    If true, that is hugely unfair. He is a civil servant. She is the PM. She should take responsibility. Little wonder she can't create or keep a team if that is how she treats those who work for her.
    Quite. What is distasteful to me is the "No 10 is telling MPs that .. " bit. She should not be doing this as a sacrificial offer in a bargaining game with her MPs.
    Fits her profile perfectly, no principles and out only for herself. She would throw her granny under a bus just as easily.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    If true, that is hugely unfair. He is a civil servant. She is the PM. She should take responsibility. Little wonder she can't create or keep a team if that is how she treats those who work for her.
    The point is, he is overseen one negotiation, the outcome of which has been disastrously badly received. He can't be within a hundred miles of the REALLY important negotiations on the trade arrangements.

    The corollary of this is that neither can the PM.
    It was the PM that oversaw the negotiation, Robins was merely the mouthpiece. If it is true that he is being sacked then that is outrageous and transparently unfair. A fact that will not go unnoticed by other civil servants on whom the government relies.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    edited March 2019
    geoffw said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    If true, that is hugely unfair. He is a civil servant. She is the PM. She should take responsibility. Little wonder she can't create or keep a team if that is how she treats those who work for her.
    Quite. What is distasteful to me is the "No 10 is telling MPs that .. " bit. She should not be doing this as a sacrificial offer in a bargaining game with her MPs.
    I know he isn't liked amongst leavers, but he got an agreement to his brief. I doubt he'll have employability issues going forward. Being used as a negotiating pawn like this also sounds like a cut/shut unfair/constructive dismissal case. So I think he'll be fine.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Many thanks, colleagues, for the good wishes. I hope only to be in for a few days.

    Best wishes OKC.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    G

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    If true, that is hugely unfair. He is a civil servant. She is the PM. She should take responsibility. Little wonder she can't create or keep a team if that is how she treats those who work for her.
    The point is, he is overseen one negotiation, the outcome of which has been disastrously badly received. He can't be within a hundred miles of the REALLY important negotiations on the trade arrangements.

    The corollary of this is that neither can the PM.
    It’s “disastrously badly received” because the lies, loud and repeated from leavers have been accepted as truth by enough gullible fools. There’s no easy solution but people like Johnson, like The Telegraph, like Mogg continue to express those lies without remorse. I hope they suffer in this life and rot in hell (or in the case of the Telegaph, wither and die). It would be deserved.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    justin124 said:

    Sean_F said:

    For those that are interested, here are 37 Conservative MPs who I currently expect to vote against any revival of the meaningful vote (the first 31 are ERGonauts, the next six are from the Remain wing of the party):

    Adam Afriyie (Windsor)
    Lucy Allan (Telford)
    Steve Baker (Wycombe)
    Crispin Blunt (Reigate)
    Peter Bone (Wellingborough)
    Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire)
    Conor Burns (Bournemouth West)
    Christopher Chope (Christchurch)
    Richard Drax (South Dorset)
    James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East)
    Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford)
    Marcus Fysh (Yeovil)
    Chris Green (Bolton West)
    Philip Hollobone (Kettering)
    Adam Holloway (Gravesham)
    Ranil Jayawardena (North East Hampshire)
    Andrea Jenkyns (Morley and Outwood)
    Boris Johnson (Uxbridge and South Ruislip)
    David Jones (Clwyd West)
    Julian Lewis (New Forest East)
    Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet)
    Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall)
    Priti Patel (Witham)
    Owen Paterson (North Shropshire)
    John Redwood (Wokingham)
    Andrew Rosindell (Romford)
    Henry Smith (Crawley)
    Royston Smith (Southampton Itchen)
    Ross Thomson (Aberdeen South)
    Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole)
    Anne-Marie Trevelyan (Berwick-upon-Tweed)

    Guto Bebb (Aberconwy)
    Justine Greening (Putney)
    Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield)
    Sam Gyimah (East Surrey)
    Joseph Johnson (Orpington)
    Phillip Lee (Bracknell)


    Notable omissions include Bill Cash, John Baron, Dominic Raab and Bernard Jenkin, all of whom have been quiet recently so far as I can tell.

    That seems about right, save that I think Lucy Allan has switched.
    Possibly Chris Green too.
    What happens to the real arithmetic if the Telegraph signatories all abstain?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Of course Olly Robbins might have requested to be removed from any future negotiations. In fact I'd be amazed if he hadn't.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Many thanks, colleagues, for the good wishes. I hope only to be in for a few days.

    Best of luck. Hope all goes well.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218

    Of course Olly Robbins might have requested to be removed from any future negotiations. In fact I'd be amazed if he hadn't.

    He might have had some good private sector offers.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    excellent news

    we can now call in the GFA need for parity of esteem and make 12 July a national holiday too
    I'm sure a holiday in the middle if July would be more popular than one in the middle of March!
    Im still trying to follow the logic of making Paddys day a UK wide holiday but not for George, Andy or Taffy. Seems odd.
    Its already a holiday in Northern Ireland and the Scots get St Andrews (end of November) but nothing for the English (late April) or Welsh (1 March).

    I suspect holidays in warmer weather might be more popular.....could take a leaf out of the former Soviet Union's book and celebrate the end of WWII on May 9th - already a public holiday in the Channel Islands...
    Scots do not get St Andrews day as a holiday, usual whining from southerners spouting lies as ever about how they are hard done by rather than coddled at the expense of the rest of us..
    Says here they do - 30 November (or 2 December if 30 November falls on a weekend). Are you actually Scottish?

    https://www.gov.scot/publications/bank-holidays/
    Yes you turnip and given I live in Scotland and do not know anyone who gets it as a holiday , I am a bit of an expert. May be a few coddled public service workers get it but not the majority of workers for certain.
    Fair enough.
    Apologies for being rude to you.
    Not at all - if we can't have robust exchanges of opinion on here then where?
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Hearing via a CCHQ insider that there will be a Euro Election announcement Friday after her trip to Brussels all things being equal and there is no movement.
    Expect the Tory list to be reinstated as before which will upset many many people.
This discussion has been closed.