Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Punters start backing O’Rourke again after he tells Oprah he’l

2

Comments

  • _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
  • Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's 19% rating must be a concern for Labour strategists.

    Masterful understatement. The last thing we need is for Brexit to get even more complicated but as soon as that is out of the way he really needs to stand down and let Emily Thornberry take over.
    There seems to be a consensus on here at least. Corbyn has soiled himself over Brexit and I cant see him recovering. His 300,000 storm troopers are more dedicated to Remaining than to him. Thornberry is an excellent alternative. She'll keep the 300,000 on board but with a much wider appeal among neutrals. More important she's witty and feisty. An irresistible combination
    Thank goodness you've said that.

    I've been laying her heavily.
  • So thanks to the brilliance of the ERG we might just remain in the customs union.

    Within the decade we'll rejoin the single market, because it makes sense.

    Then a while after we'll go full rejoin.

    I take back all my criticisms of the ERG.

    I don't think you can be so sure about that.

    It's just as likely we return to a formalised associate member status, not full membership.
  • MaxPB said:

    Hold on I thought the EU weren't going to give us legally binding anything about anything?
    Someone on here once said once that when the rhetoric is Uber strong, universally, that's usually cover for some change in the technical detail.

    Let's wait and see.


  • Still is my 'favourite' piece of clothing.

    £750 for a scarf that looks like a lady's private parts.

    https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/shortcuts/2018/oct/15/fendi-750-pound-vulva-scarf-makes-wearers-look-like-theyre-being-born

    Christ.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,621

    _Anazina_ said:

    >:)

    Testing out these new emojis

    🐷
    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    >:)

    Testing out these new emojis

    🐷
    🐶
    How did you do that!
  • Interesting to see in the YouGov breakdown that the North is now 48% wrong to leave, 39% right to leave. It suggests Corbyn's fear of getting mullered in northern constituencies if he supports Remain/2nd Ref might be misplaced.

    Funnily enough, if a cross party Brexit did pass more akin to Labour's tastes, I'd expect those numbers to change.
  • Can anyone explain what's happening with May's visit to Europe today?
    I've read news articles stating that the EU chiefs have responded by ruling out any legally binding changes, and read other articles stating that the EU have opened the door to legally binding changes which will be determined by end of February.

    What's really going on?

    There will be changes but they're fucking annoyed about it and venting their spleen as a consequence whilst turning up the europhile rhetoric to eleven, as cover.

    At least that'd be my guess based on the latest information.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    So the EU would prefer Corbyn's offer? The man is either a genius or a fool, depending on if he can squeeze it through without the party splitting.
  • Gucci withdraws $890 jumper after blackface backlash

    https://amp.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/feb/07/gucci-withdraws-jumper-blackface-balaclava

    I don’t really buy that it is racist, but what absolute twat would buy such an item of clothing.

    I don't know why the BBC and Guardian keeping reporting and requoting the loudmouth morons on Twitter as if they're somehow representative.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Gucci withdraws $890 jumper after blackface backlash

    https://amp.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/feb/07/gucci-withdraws-jumper-blackface-balaclava

    I don’t really buy that it is racist, but what absolute twat would buy such an item of clothing.

    I don't know why the BBC and Guardian keeping reporting and requoting the loudmouth morons on Twitter as if they're somehow representative.
    It is a bizarre habit. Sometimes 'twitter reacts' is itself the headline story
  • kle4 said:

    Gucci withdraws $890 jumper after blackface backlash

    https://amp.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/feb/07/gucci-withdraws-jumper-blackface-balaclava

    I don’t really buy that it is racist, but what absolute twat would buy such an item of clothing.

    I don't know why the BBC and Guardian keeping reporting and requoting the loudmouth morons on Twitter as if they're somehow representative.
    It is a bizarre habit. Sometimes 'twitter reacts' is itself the headline story
    And then everyone reacts to those reactions.
    It really has a terrible effect on public policy in almost all regards.
  • kle4 said:

    So the EU would prefer Corbyn's offer? The man is either a genius or a fool, depending on if he can squeeze it through without the party splitting.

    The EU prefer it because it'd keep the UK firmly within its orbit.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,621
    On topic: There seems to be an anomaly in the betting on Kasich which perhaps someone can explain.

    As Republican nominee, Kasich is fourth favourite after Trump, Haley and Pence and ahead of Romney and Ryan. He comes into his own if a) Trump decides not to run (30% chance?) and b) the Democrats put up a left winger (50% chance?) Then Kasich might be chosen by mainstream Republicans who wouldn't countenance Pence and could see Kasich attracting independents (and Ohio swing voters).

    He last traded at 26 for the nomination which I think is fair value - perhaps a little long.

    So why is he 140 for the presidency? That makes no sense. If he is chosen as nominee that means that the Republicans think he has a good chance of beating his left-wing Democrat opponent. His odds as president should be no more than say 1.5 times his odds as nominee.

    Is my analysis wrong or is his presidency bet a steal?
  • Can anyone explain what's happening with May's visit to Europe today?
    I've read news articles stating that the EU chiefs have responded by ruling out any legally binding changes, and read other articles stating that the EU have opened the door to legally binding changes which will be determined by end of February.

    What's really going on?

    There will be changes but they're fucking annoyed about it and venting their spleen as a consequence whilst turning up the europhile rhetoric to eleven, as cover.

    At least that'd be my guess based on the latest information.
    If so that seems like good news?
  • kle4 said:

    Gucci withdraws $890 jumper after blackface backlash

    https://amp.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/feb/07/gucci-withdraws-jumper-blackface-balaclava

    I don’t really buy that it is racist, but what absolute twat would buy such an item of clothing.

    I don't know why the BBC and Guardian keeping reporting and requoting the loudmouth morons on Twitter as if they're somehow representative.
    It is a bizarre habit. Sometimes 'twitter reacts' is itself the headline story
    And then everyone reacts to those reactions.
    It really has a terrible effect on public policy in almost all regards.
    The phrases to look out for are “took to social media to...” and “gone viral”. These are basically a trump card over any sense of judging a story by usual means :)
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more opportunity Theresa May is given to diddle about and keep running down the clock, the less likely anything other than her Withdrawal Agreement or Hard Brexit becomes. There's no prospect of Labour's demands getting a look in unless or until a sufficiently large bloc of Tory defectors crosses the floor to embrace it.

    To be frank I thought that the hardcore Conservative Remainers would jump ship as soon as it became obvious, following her response to the Parliamentary defeat of the Deal, that there was no significant likelihood of ever getting a second referendum out of the Prime Minister. Yet as of this moment they remain miserably huddled on the Government benches whilst Labour appears rather more fissiparous than the Tories.

    It is worth remembering at this juncture that the count of departed or expelled MPs in this Parliament presently stands at Labour 6, Conservative 0 and that, however many of Theresa May's MPs might think she's useless, only on Corbyn's side do some of his colleagues take exception to his leadership on the grounds of morality.

    At the end of the day, only two outcomes seem likely - either sufficient consensus builds around the Withdrawal Agreement (whether exactly as presently agreed, or with some tweaks to try to make it more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    kle4 said:

    So the EU would prefer Corbyn's offer? The man is either a genius or a fool, depending on if he can squeeze it through without the party splitting.

    Of course they would. That's why I've never understood the "May's deal is the only possible deal" line on here.
  • Can anyone explain what's happening with May's visit to Europe today?
    I've read news articles stating that the EU chiefs have responded by ruling out any legally binding changes, and read other articles stating that the EU have opened the door to legally binding changes which will be determined by end of February.

    What's really going on?

    There will be changes but they're fucking annoyed about it and venting their spleen as a consequence whilst turning up the europhile rhetoric to eleven, as cover.

    At least that'd be my guess based on the latest information.
    If so that seems like good news?
    Yes, but no evidence for it yet. Just straws in the wind.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Gucci withdraws $890 jumper after blackface backlash

    https://amp.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/feb/07/gucci-withdraws-jumper-blackface-balaclava

    I don’t really buy that it is racist, but what absolute twat would buy such an item of clothing.

    I don't know why the BBC and Guardian keeping reporting and requoting the loudmouth morons on Twitter as if they're somehow representative.
    To state the obvious, it's classic confirmation bias.

    On a side note, I thought it was ridiculous that the Guardian added "[sic]" after what are clearly examples of American spelling standards. I don't like them either, but pretending that they're somehow errors by the brand is utterly uncalled for.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited February 2019

    Gucci withdraws $890 jumper after blackface backlash

    https://amp.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/feb/07/gucci-withdraws-jumper-blackface-balaclava

    I don’t really buy that it is racist, but what absolute twat would buy such an item of clothing.

    I don't know why the BBC and Guardian keeping reporting and requoting the loudmouth morons on Twitter as if they're somehow representative.
    It’s cheap and fills dead air time/paper. Equally TV loves getting comments from the sort of public that are hanging around regional market square in the mid morning. It’s equally non-illuminating and equally filler.
  • kle4 said:

    Gucci withdraws $890 jumper after blackface backlash

    https://amp.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/feb/07/gucci-withdraws-jumper-blackface-balaclava

    I don’t really buy that it is racist, but what absolute twat would buy such an item of clothing.

    I don't know why the BBC and Guardian keeping reporting and requoting the loudmouth morons on Twitter as if they're somehow representative.
    It is a bizarre habit. Sometimes 'twitter reacts' is itself the headline story
    And then everyone reacts to those reactions.
    It really has a terrible effect on public policy in almost all regards.
    The phrases to look out for are “took to social media to...” and “gone viral”. These are basically a trump card over any sense of judging a story by usual means :)
    Social media rewards those who provide the most fluent echo chamber for followers who already agree with them.
    Unless you're a very major, and disciplined, public character there's no other way to gain lots of followers.
    The most interesting and objective people on Twitter have far fewer followers, I find.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,730
    Barnesian said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    >:)

    Testing out these new emojis

    🐷
    IanB2 said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    >:)

    Testing out these new emojis

    🐷
    🐶
    How did you do that!
    From the emoji keyboard on my phone.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,592

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Well it is remain without the benefits. No point we may as well stay in that scenario

    Leaving is important in itself because of the referendum mandate. if we fail to leave the two truly significant lessons of this horrendous exercise won't ever come home. Firstly that you can't deal with issues of national identity and sovereignty without genuine and wholehearted consent (the 1972-2016 problem); secondly that policy and politics is a tough activity needing grown up thinking (the problem of simplistic campaigns over complex issues).

    Just as a thought exercise: If the Scots had voted for independence, what sorts of horrific and insoluble complexities would have been discovered lurking under the floorboards...

  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    kle4 said:

    Gucci withdraws $890 jumper after blackface backlash

    https://amp.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/feb/07/gucci-withdraws-jumper-blackface-balaclava

    I don’t really buy that it is racist, but what absolute twat would buy such an item of clothing.

    I don't know why the BBC and Guardian keeping reporting and requoting the loudmouth morons on Twitter as if they're somehow representative.
    It is a bizarre habit. Sometimes 'twitter reacts' is itself the headline story
    And then everyone reacts to those reactions.
    It really has a terrible effect on public policy in almost all regards.
    One of David Cameron's better attributes was that he was incredibly good at balanced responses in the face of Twitter lynch mobs. I imagine any future Labour government will have immense difficulty operating under those circumstances, especially given recent changes to afford the members more power.
  • matt said:

    Gucci withdraws $890 jumper after blackface backlash

    https://amp.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/feb/07/gucci-withdraws-jumper-blackface-balaclava

    I don’t really buy that it is racist, but what absolute twat would buy such an item of clothing.

    I don't know why the BBC and Guardian keeping reporting and requoting the loudmouth morons on Twitter as if they're somehow representative.
    It’s cheap and fills dead air time/paper. Equally TV loves getting comments from the sort of public that are hanging around regional market square in the mid morning. It’s equally non-illuminating and equally filler.
    True. Most journalists are both skint and lazy.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    What sort of cowboy operators do the upgrade of the comment system of world class websites?

    Mumsnet has reported itself to the information commissioner after a data breach resulted in users accidentally logging into the accounts of strangers.


    A botched upgrade to the software the forum runs on meant that for three days, if two users tried to log in at the same time, there was the possibility that their accounts would be switched. Each user was able to post as the other, see their account details, and read private messages.

    The company doesn’t know how many user accounts were affected, but says that over the three days the bug was live, from Tuesday afternoon to Thursday morning, about 4,000 users logged in. Of that, only 14 users have reported an issue.

    Mumsnet founder Justine Roberts apologised to users in a post, saying: “You’ve every right to expect your Mumsnet account to be secure and private. We are working urgently to discover exactly how this breach happened and to learn and improve our processes. We will also keep you informed about what is happening. We will of course be reporting this incident to the information commissioner.”

    Mumsnet confirmed to the Guardian that it has now self-referred to the Information Commissioners Office, as it is legally required to do in the event of a data breach.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/07/mumsnet-reports-itself-to-regulator-over-data-breach

    I can't begin to imagine the monstrosity they must have jerry-rigged behind the scenes for that bug to be possible.
    I can.

    It's almost certainly a threading issue. The server will be serving multiple users at once. If the forum software isn't 100% thread-safe, then it's plausible that the user credentials from one thread will get swapped/overwrite another. An absolutely trivial bug and one that's very difficult to nail down.

    I've seen this happen twice in the wild with Rack on Ruby, which is a pretty bullet-proof piece of software. (In one case it was forum developer error, but in another it appears to have been a genuine bug in the Passenger application server.)

    And if it can happen with Rack, it can certainly happen in whatever PHP monstrosity Mumsnet uses. (I don't know for sure that Mumsnet is coded in PHP, but frankly it's that kind of place. Unfortunately when I googled "mumsnet backend" the first result was a thread called "Dog licking her back end", which I could have done without.)
  • 👀
  • Oh my it works.
  • 👀

    🍆
  • DavidL said:

    great. i seem to have won the first three tests.

    Bit like the Windies then. It's a bit sad when we need to hobble their team to have a chance of a result.
    It won't be enough. Now if it were arranged for them to take the field with eight players....
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Barnesian said:

    On topic: There seems to be an anomaly in the betting on Kasich which perhaps someone can explain.

    As Republican nominee, Kasich is fourth favourite after Trump, Haley and Pence and ahead of Romney and Ryan. He comes into his own if a) Trump decides not to run (30% chance?) and b) the Democrats put up a left winger (50% chance?) Then Kasich might be chosen by mainstream Republicans who wouldn't countenance Pence and could see Kasich attracting independents (and Ohio swing voters).

    He last traded at 26 for the nomination which I think is fair value - perhaps a little long.

    So why is he 140 for the presidency? That makes no sense. If he is chosen as nominee that means that the Republicans think he has a good chance of beating his left-wing Democrat opponent. His odds as president should be no more than say 1.5 times his odds as nominee.

    Is my analysis wrong or is his presidency bet a steal?

    No, to the latter. 26 for the nomination is far too short.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited February 2019
    The polls are far from clear at present - Yougov and Opinium have the Tories clearly ahead whilst Ipsos Mori and Survation have the main parties level pegging.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Well it is remain without the benefits. No point we may as well stay in that scenario
    Well yes, I’d prefer to remain but I assume that bird has flown
  • justin124 said:

    The polls are far from clear at present - Yougov and Opinium have the Tories clearly ahead whilst Ipsos Mori and Survation have the main parties level pegging.

    They're not only not clear, they're meaningless, and will remain so until there is some clarity over Brexit.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Twitter is very exercised about the VONC in Luciana Berger:

    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1093571423661105152

    I wonder if this could finally be the trigger for a split in the Labour party.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    matt said:

    Gucci withdraws $890 jumper after blackface backlash

    https://amp.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/feb/07/gucci-withdraws-jumper-blackface-balaclava

    I don’t really buy that it is racist, but what absolute twat would buy such an item of clothing.

    I don't know why the BBC and Guardian keeping reporting and requoting the loudmouth morons on Twitter as if they're somehow representative.
    It’s cheap and fills dead air time. It’s equally non-illuminating and equally filler.
    I scan read that and assumed you were talking about Laura K’s story sourcing strategy.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    🐧🐌🕷🐘🐿
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    What sort of cowboy operators do the upgrade of the comment system of world class websites?

    Mumsnet has reported itself to the information commissioner after a data breach resulted in users accidentally logging into the accounts of strangers.


    A botched upgrade to the software the forum runs on meant that for three days, if two users tried to log in at the same time, there was the possibility that their accounts would be switched. Each user was able to post as the other, see their account details, and read private messages.

    The company doesn’t know how many user accounts were affected, but says that over the three days the bug was live, from Tuesday afternoon to Thursday morning, about 4,000 users logged in. Of that, only 14 users have reported an issue.

    Mumsnet founder Justine Roberts apologised to users in a post, saying: “You’ve every right to expect your Mumsnet account to be secure and private. We are working urgently to discover exactly how this breach happened and to learn and improve our processes. We will also keep you informed about what is happening. We will of course be reporting this incident to the information commissioner.”

    Mumsnet confirmed to the Guardian that it has now self-referred to the Information Commissioners Office, as it is legally required to do in the event of a data breach.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/07/mumsnet-reports-itself-to-regulator-over-data-breach

    I can't begin to imagine the monstrosity they must have jerry-rigged behind the scenes for that bug to be possible.
    I can.

    It's almost certainly a threading issue. The server will be serving multiple users at once. If the forum software isn't 100% thread-safe, then it's plausible that the user credentials from one thread will get swapped/overwrite another. An absolutely trivial bug and one that's very difficult to nail down.

    I've seen this happen twice in the wild with Rack on Ruby, which is a pretty bullet-proof piece of software. (In one case it was forum developer error, but in another it appears to have been a genuine bug in the Passenger application server.)

    And if it can happen with Rack, it can certainly happen in whatever PHP monstrosity Mumsnet uses. (I don't know for sure that Mumsnet is coded in PHP, but frankly it's that kind of place. Unfortunately when I googled "mumsnet backend" the first result was a thread called "Dog licking her back end", which I could have done without.)
    I suspect it's the same bug that you found as my quick look at Mumsnet tells me it runs on Ruby using Phusion Passenger albeit with cloudflare caching.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    You have got to be kidding me

    🌜🌞🌎🔥🍸

    🍺🍺🍺🍺
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,902

    justin124 said:

    The polls are far from clear at present - Yougov and Opinium have the Tories clearly ahead whilst Ipsos Mori and Survation have the main parties level pegging.

    They're not only not clear, they're meaningless, and will remain so until there is some clarity over Brexit.
    What are your thoughts on the UK racing stoppage? One or two are saying the BHA has over-reacted but if there is a new strain of equine flu out and about I don't know what else they can do.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited February 2019

    matt said:

    Gucci withdraws $890 jumper after blackface backlash

    https://amp.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/feb/07/gucci-withdraws-jumper-blackface-balaclava

    I don’t really buy that it is racist, but what absolute twat would buy such an item of clothing.

    I don't know why the BBC and Guardian keeping reporting and requoting the loudmouth morons on Twitter as if they're somehow representative.
    It’s cheap and fills dead air time/paper. Equally TV loves getting comments from the sort of public that are hanging around regional market square in the mid morning. It’s equally non-illuminating and equally filler.
    True. Most journalists are both skint and lazy.
    It’s a more recent interation of the much of Monday newspapers and their “a report today” churnalism, “a report by the Association of British Lavatory Consumable Suppliers revealed that majority of the public prefer to wipe with Andrex and not nettles”.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,621
    Endillion said:

    Barnesian said:

    On topic: There seems to be an anomaly in the betting on Kasich which perhaps someone can explain.

    As Republican nominee, Kasich is fourth favourite after Trump, Haley and Pence and ahead of Romney and Ryan. He comes into his own if a) Trump decides not to run (30% chance?) and b) the Democrats put up a left winger (50% chance?) Then Kasich might be chosen by mainstream Republicans who wouldn't countenance Pence and could see Kasich attracting independents (and Ohio swing voters).

    He last traded at 26 for the nomination which I think is fair value - perhaps a little long.

    So why is he 140 for the presidency? That makes no sense. If he is chosen as nominee that means that the Republicans think he has a good chance of beating his left-wing Democrat opponent. His odds as president should be no more than say 1.5 times his odds as nominee.

    Is my analysis wrong or is his presidency bet a steal?

    No, to the latter. 26 for the nomination is far too short.
    It's a betting opportunity either way.
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    It doesn't meet May's red lines and would destroy the tory party, therefore it will not happen.

  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    eek said:

    I suspect it's the same bug that you found as my quick look at Mumsnet tells me it runs on Ruby using Phusion Passenger albeit with cloudflare caching.

    Wow. In that case: certain versions of Passenger (with Apache, don't know about nginx) b0rk out if you don't send a Content-Length header. I think there's some kind of buffer overrun, but haven't looked into it in any more detail.
  • _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more opportunity Theresa May is given to diddle about and keep running down the clock, the less likely anything other than her Withdrawal Agreement or Hard Brexit becomes. There's no prospect of Labour's demands getting a look in unless or until a sufficiently large bloc of Tory defectors crosses the floor to embrace it.

    To be frank I thought that the hardcore Conservative Remainers would jump ship as soon as it became obvious, following her response to the Parliamentary defeat of the Deal, that there was no significant likelihood of ever getting a second referendum out of the Prime Minister. Yet as of this moment they remain miserably huddled on the Government benches whilst Labour appears rather more fissiparous than the Tories.

    It is worth remembering at this juncture that the count of departed or expelled MPs in this Parliament presently stands at Labour 6, Conservative 0 and that, however many of Theresa May's MPs might think she's useless, only on Corbyn's side do some of his colleagues take exception to his leadership on the grounds of morality.

    At the end of the day, only two outcomes seem likely - either sufficient consensus builds around the Withdrawal Agreement (whether exactly as presently agreed, or with some tweaks to try to make it more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
    She doesn't need a majority to revoke.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,592

    Twitter is very exercised about the VONC in Luciana Berger:

    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1093571423661105152

    I wonder if this could finally be the trigger for a split in the Labour party.


    If so I'm with the Yvette party. If she were leader I could break the habit of a lifetime and vote Labour

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,621
    _Anazina_ said:

    You have got to be kidding me

    🌜🌞🌎🔥🍸

    🍺🍺🍺🍺

    💰💲🌞🎢🏏🍕
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,621
    Barnesian said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    You have got to be kidding me

    🌜🌞🌎🔥🍸

    🍺🍺🍺🍺

    💰💲🌞🎢🏏🍕
    Little things ....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more opportunity Theresa May is given to diddle about and keep running down the clock, the less likely anything other than her Withdrawal Agreement or Hard Brexit becomes. There's no prospect of Labour's demands getting a look in unless or until a sufficiently large bloc of Tory defectors crosses the floor to embrace it.

    To be frank I thought that the hardcore Conservative Remainers would jump ship as soon as it became obvious, following her response to the Parliamentary defeat of the Deal, that there was no significant likelihood of ever getting a second referendum out of the Prime Minister. Yet as of this moment they remain miserably huddled on the Government benches whilst Labour appears rather more fissiparous than the Tories.

    It is worth remembering at this juncture that the count of departed or expelled MPs in this Parliament presently stands at Labour 6, Conservative 0 and that, however many of Theresa May's MPs might think she's useless, only on Corbyn's side do some of his colleagues take exception to his leadership on the grounds of morality.

    At the end of the day, only two outcomes seem likely - either sufficient consensus builds around the Withdrawal Agreement (whether exactly as presently agreed, or with some tweaks to try to make it more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
    She doesn't need a majority to revoke.
    I think she does.

    But even if she did not, why would she?
  • Barnesian said:

    Endillion said:

    Barnesian said:

    On topic: There seems to be an anomaly in the betting on Kasich which perhaps someone can explain.

    As Republican nominee, Kasich is fourth favourite after Trump, Haley and Pence and ahead of Romney and Ryan. He comes into his own if a) Trump decides not to run (30% chance?) and b) the Democrats put up a left winger (50% chance?) Then Kasich might be chosen by mainstream Republicans who wouldn't countenance Pence and could see Kasich attracting independents (and Ohio swing voters).

    He last traded at 26 for the nomination which I think is fair value - perhaps a little long.

    So why is he 140 for the presidency? That makes no sense. If he is chosen as nominee that means that the Republicans think he has a good chance of beating his left-wing Democrat opponent. His odds as president should be no more than say 1.5 times his odds as nominee.

    Is my analysis wrong or is his presidency bet a steal?

    No, to the latter. 26 for the nomination is far too short.
    It's a betting opportunity either way.
    Yes, there's an inconsistency there but you have to figure which way it is. Personally I'd say the 140 is too long because if he did win the nomination his chances of going all the way would be better than most of the potential Republican nominees.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,621
    Putting the two latest YouGov and Ipsos polls into the EMA shows ... nothing has changed. Well nothing much.

    The Tory lead over Labour has extended to 1.5% and the Tories are 19 short of a majority (they've gained another seat off Labour).
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,621

    eek said:

    I suspect it's the same bug that you found as my quick look at Mumsnet tells me it runs on Ruby using Phusion Passenger albeit with cloudflare caching.

    Wow. In that case: certain versions of Passenger (with Apache, don't know about nginx) b0rk out if you don't send a Content-Length header. I think there's some kind of buffer overrun, but haven't looked into it in any more detail.
    哇。在这种情况下:如果您不发送Content-Length标头,某些版本的Passenger(使用Apache,不知道nginx)b0rk out。我认为有某种缓冲区溢出,但没有更详细地研究它。

    This is the Chinese version if it helps.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,914
    edited February 2019
    matt said:

    It’s a more recent interation of the much of Monday newspapers and their “a report today” churnalism, “a report by the Association of British Lavatory Consumable Suppliers revealed that majority of the public prefer to wipe with Andrex and not nettles”.

    That is the journalistic sin that annoys me the most. I must have heard literally hundreds, maybe even thousands, of stories where the blindingly obvious bias of the entity responsible for the press release — usually with some dubious claim or stat* — has gone uncommented on.

    The press love to run such stories if it bashes the government (of any colour) or has some "the world is going to Hell in a handcart" point to cheer us all up.

    I would estimate that 90% of such stories shouldn't get any airtime, as they are mostly nonsense.

    * In many cases almost certainly voodoo polls of self-selecting members or users.


  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    algarkirk said:

    Twitter is very exercised about the VONC in Luciana Berger:

    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1093571423661105152

    I wonder if this could finally be the trigger for a split in the Labour party.


    If so I'm with the Yvette party. If she were leader I could break the habit of a lifetime and vote Labour

    Not after you had had to watch multiple vacuous statements from her with the accompanied pained looked as if it hurts to speak.
    Reminds me of a 5 year old on the toilet with constipation.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Barnesian said:

    eek said:

    I suspect it's the same bug that you found as my quick look at Mumsnet tells me it runs on Ruby using Phusion Passenger albeit with cloudflare caching.

    Wow. In that case: certain versions of Passenger (with Apache, don't know about nginx) b0rk out if you don't send a Content-Length header. I think there's some kind of buffer overrun, but haven't looked into it in any more detail.
    哇。在这种情况下:如果您不发送Content-Length标头,某些版本的Passenger(使用Apache,不知道nginx)b0rk out。我认为有某种缓冲区溢出,但没有更详细地研究它。

    This is the Chinese version if it helps.
    Splendid. Ruby is a Japanese project (with the rather wonderful guiding development principle MINSWAN: Matz [the creator] Is Nice So We Are Nice). But if I understood any Chinese...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Berger's CLP seems to be absolutely enormous to me. I know it's Liverpool and Labour, but still.
  • Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more opportunity Theresa May is given to diddle about and keep running down the clock, the less likely anything other than her Withdrawal Agreement or Hard Brexit becomes. There's no prospect of Labour's demands getting a look in unless or until a sufficiently large bloc of Tory defectors crosses the floor to embrace it.

    To be frank I thought that the hardcore Conservative Remainers would jump ship as soon as it became obvious, following her response to the Parliamentary defeat of the Deal, that there was no significant likelihood of ever getting a second referendum out of the Prime Minister. Yet as of this moment they remain miserably huddled on the Government benches whilst Labour appears rather more fissiparous than the Tories.

    It is worth remembering at this juncture that the count of departed or expelled MPs in this Parliament presently stands at Labour 6, Conservative 0 and that, however many of Theresa May's MPs might think she's useless, only on Corbyn's side do some of his colleagues take exception to his leadership on the grounds of morality.

    At the end of the day, only two outcomes seem likely - either sufficient consensus builds around the Withdrawal Agreement (whether exactly as presently agreed, or with some tweaks to try to make it more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
    She doesn't need a majority to revoke.
    I think she does.

    But even if she did not, why would she?
    Does she, Sean? I don't think so. She could just write a letter, no?

    Why would she? Well, if I were in her shoes and I had to make the dreadful choice between No Deal or Revoke, I'd choose the latter. Marginal choice, it's true, but on balance I'd figure the long-term damage to the Country, Party and my own reputation would be less.

    I know you don't share that view, and you are by no means alone, but I'm trying to look at impartially. From a betting viewpoint, I'd certainly think that option should be less the 7/1 currnetly available.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    algarkirk said:

    Twitter is very exercised about the VONC in Luciana Berger:

    https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1093571423661105152

    I wonder if this could finally be the trigger for a split in the Labour party.


    If so I'm with the Yvette party. If she were leader I could break the habit of a lifetime and vote Labour
    I've voted Labour precisely once in my life: 2015. History has judged my vote kindly.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Barnesian said:

    Putting the two latest YouGov and Ipsos polls into the EMA shows ... nothing has changed. Well nothing much.

    The Tory lead over Labour has extended to 1.5% and the Tories are 19 short of a majority (they've gained another seat off Labour).

    Yougov, Survation and Ipsos Mori have been in their respective corners for some time - only Opinium appears to have changed its tune somewhat.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Barnesian said:

    eek said:

    I suspect it's the same bug that you found as my quick look at Mumsnet tells me it runs on Ruby using Phusion Passenger albeit with cloudflare caching.

    Wow. In that case: certain versions of Passenger (with Apache, don't know about nginx) b0rk out if you don't send a Content-Length header. I think there's some kind of buffer overrun, but haven't looked into it in any more detail.
    哇。在这种情况下:如果您不发送Content-Length标头,某些版本的Passenger(使用Apache,不知道nginx)b0rk out。我认为有某种缓冲区溢出,但没有更详细地研究它。

    Eat your heart out Alanbrooke!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    Brilliant link via @OKC for those who missed it!
    Recipies for Brexit Britain:
    https://www.britishcouncil.org/organisation/policy-insight-research/defence-english-cooking


  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    I know it's Guido but he has the figures.

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1093605316439138304

    Even with Brexit the UK economy will probably grow better than elsewhere in Europe..
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's 19% rating must be a concern for Labour strategists.

    Masterful understatement. The last thing we need is for Brexit to get even more complicated but as soon as that is out of the way he really needs to stand down and let Emily Thornberry take over.
    If Thornberry is the answer, you have to wonder what the heck is the question.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,193
    edited February 2019
    According to the latest Iowa caucus poll a few days ago, Biden leads on 29%, Harris is second on 18%, Sanders third on 15%, Warren 4th on 11% and O'Rourke fifth on 6%.
    In the general election Biden leads Trump 51% to 49% in Iowa but Trump leads Harris 53% to 47%, Sanders 51% to 50%, Warren 52% to 48%
    https://www.emerson.edu/news-events/emerson-college-today-unpublished/iowa-poll-one-year-out-caucus-biden-leads-democratic-field-third-party-candidacy-helps-trump
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    eek said:

    I know it's Guido but he has the figures.

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1093605316439138304

    Even with Brexit the UK economy will probably grow better than elsewhere in Europe..

    The EU predicted figures for Britain are based on existing trade arrangements, so no Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1093516463103606784?s=19
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,730
    kyf_100 said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's 19% rating must be a concern for Labour strategists.

    Masterful understatement. The last thing we need is for Brexit to get even more complicated but as soon as that is out of the way he really needs to stand down and let Emily Thornberry take over.
    If Thornberry is the answer, you have to wonder what the heck is the question.
    Which politician should have been played by Patricia Routledge?
  • What special place in EU heaven is reserved for those who sold remaining in the EU in the referendum without once mentioning "ever closer union", the only truth of the EU?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,219
    Happy year of the 🐷
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,730
    edited February 2019

    What special place in EU heaven is reserved for those who sold remaining in the EU in the referendum without once mentioning "ever closer union", the only truth of the EU?

    An opt-out was one of the most prominent aspects of what Cameron was proposing. Surprised you missed it...

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pms-statement-following-european-council-meeting-19-february-2016

    Luckily useful idiots campaigned to Leave instead, so that pledge was able to be torn up.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    I know it's Guido but he has the figures.

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1093605316439138304

    Even with Brexit the UK economy will probably grow better than elsewhere in Europe..

    The EU predicted figures for Britain are based on existing trade arrangements, so no Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1093516463103606784?s=19
    That's very interesting. Malta top. I'm not really surprised. They embrace immigrants and it has a definite socialist feel to it. Very cheap public transport and utility bills are subsidised.
  • kyf_100 said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's 19% rating must be a concern for Labour strategists.

    Masterful understatement. The last thing we need is for Brexit to get even more complicated but as soon as that is out of the way he really needs to stand down and let Emily Thornberry take over.
    If Thornberry is the answer, you have to wonder what the heck is the question.
    Which politician should have been played by Patricia Routledge?
    Good one.
  • Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more opportunity Theresa May is given to diddle about and keep running down the clock, the less likely anything other than her Withdrawal Agreement or Hard Brexit becomes. There's no prospect of Labour's demands getting a look in unless or until a sufficiently large bloc of Tory defectors crosses the floor to embrace it.

    To be frank I thought that the hardcore Conservative Remainers would jump ship as soon as it became obvious, following her response to the Parliamentary defeat of the Deal, that there was no significant likelihood of ever getting a second referendum out of the Prime Minister. Yet as of this moment they remain miserably huddled on the Government benches whilst Labour appears rather more fissiparous than the Tories.

    It is worth remembering at this juncture that the count of departed or expelled MPs in this Parliament presently stands at Labour 6, Conservative 0 and that, however many of Theresa May's MPs might think she's useless, only on Corbyn's side do some of his colleagues take exception to his leadership on the grounds of morality.

    At the end of the day, only two outcomes seem likely - either sufficient consensus builds around the Withdrawal Agreement (whether exactly as presently agreed, or with some tweaks to try to make it more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
    She doesn't need a majority to revoke.
    I think she does.

    But even if she did not, why would she?
    Does she, Sean? I don't think so. She could just write a letter, no?

    Why would she? Well, if I were in her shoes and I had to make the dreadful choice between No Deal or Revoke, I'd choose the latter. Marginal choice, it's true, but on balance I'd figure the long-term damage to the Country, Party and my own reputation would be less.

    I know you don't share that view, and you are by no means alone, but I'm trying to look at impartially. From a betting viewpoint, I'd certainly think that option should be less the 7/1 currnetly available.
    That's confirmation bias, Peter, based on what you want to happen.
    It's not value.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    I know it's Guido but he has the figures.

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1093605316439138304

    Even with Brexit the UK economy will probably grow better than elsewhere in Europe..

    The EU predicted figures for Britain are based on existing trade arrangements, so no Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1093516463103606784?s=19
    That's very interesting. Malta top. I'm not really surprised. They embrace immigrants and it has a definite socialist feel to it. Very cheap public transport and utility bills are subsidised.
    Eastern Europe is growing strongly, likely to continue to catch up with Western Europe. Our East European diaspora is likely to be a particularly important segment of our economy, if we retain close trading links. Nice to see Greece recovering well too.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,730
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    I know it's Guido but he has the figures.

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1093605316439138304

    Even with Brexit the UK economy will probably grow better than elsewhere in Europe..

    The EU predicted figures for Britain are based on existing trade arrangements, so no Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1093516463103606784?s=19
    That's very interesting. Malta top. I'm not really surprised. They embrace immigrants and it has a definite socialist feel to it. Very cheap public transport and utility bills are subsidised.
    Eastern Europe is growing strongly, likely to continue to catch up with Western Europe. Our East European diaspora is likely to be a particularly important segment of our economy, if we retain close trading links. Nice to see Greece recovering well too.
    These figures don't really support @stodge's theory that the single market only benefits Germany and the South-East of England...
  • _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more opportunity Theresa May is given to diddle about and keep running down the clock, the less likely anything other than her Withdrawal Agreement or Hard Brexit becomes. There's no prospect of Labour's demands getting a look in unless or until a sufficiently large bloc of Tory defectors crosses the floor to embrace it.

    To be frank I thought that the hardcore Conservative Remainers would jump ship as soon as it became obvious, following her response to the Parliamentary defeat of the Deal, that there was no significant likelihood of ever getting a second referendum out of the Prime Minister. Yet as of this moment they remain miserably huddled on the Government benches whilst Labour appears rather more fissiparous than the Tories.

    It is worth remembering at this juncture that the count of departed or expelled MPs in this Parliament presently stands at Labour 6, Conservative 0 and that, however many of Theresa May's MPs might think she's useless, only on Corbyn's side do some of his colleagues take exception to his leadership on the grounds of morality.

    At the end of the day, only two outcomes seem likely - either sufficient consensus builds around the Withdrawal Agreement (whether exactly as presently agreed, or with some tweaks to try to make it more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
    She doesn't need a majority to revoke.
    Just a suicide wish
  • What special place in EU heaven is reserved for those who sold remaining in the EU in the referendum without once mentioning "ever closer union", the only truth of the EU?

    An opt-out was one of the most prominent aspects of what Cameron was proposing. Surprised you missed it...

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pms-statement-following-european-council-meeting-19-february-2016

    Luckily useful idiots campaigned to Leave instead, so that pledge was able to be torn up.
    HIs opt out was meaningless and not worth the paper it was scribbled on.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    I know it's Guido but he has the figures.

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1093605316439138304

    Even with Brexit the UK economy will probably grow better than elsewhere in Europe..

    The EU predicted figures for Britain are based on existing trade arrangements, so no Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1093516463103606784?s=19
    That's very interesting. Malta top. I'm not really surprised. They embrace immigrants and it has a definite socialist feel to it. Very cheap public transport and utility bills are subsidised.
    You do realise that Malta has based its economy around tax competition and pass-through business, yes? It’s also an overpopulated dump.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,730

    What special place in EU heaven is reserved for those who sold remaining in the EU in the referendum without once mentioning "ever closer union", the only truth of the EU?

    An opt-out was one of the most prominent aspects of what Cameron was proposing. Surprised you missed it...

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pms-statement-following-european-council-meeting-19-february-2016

    Luckily useful idiots campaigned to Leave instead, so that pledge was able to be torn up.
    HIs opt out was meaningless and not worth the paper it was scribbled on.
    Perhaps, but one thing's for sure: if we'd have taken him up on the offer, we'd have spent a lot less time talking about Europe over the last two years.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    I know it's Guido but he has the figures.

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1093605316439138304

    Even with Brexit the UK economy will probably grow better than elsewhere in Europe..

    The EU predicted figures for Britain are based on existing trade arrangements, so no Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1093516463103606784?s=19
    That's very interesting. Malta top. I'm not really surprised. They embrace immigrants and it has a definite socialist feel to it. Very cheap public transport and utility bills are subsidised.
    Eastern Europe is growing strongly, likely to continue to catch up with Western Europe. Our East European diaspora is likely to be a particularly important segment of our economy, if we retain close trading links. Nice to see Greece recovering well too.
    These figures don't really support @stodge's theory that the single market only benefits Germany and the South-East of England...
    The 2020 figures are once again similar (UK prediction based on existing trading arrangements, ie WA)
    https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1093454719366909952?s=19
  • Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more opportunity Theresa May is given to diddle about and keep running down the clock, the less likely anything other than her Withdrawal Agreement or Hard Brexit becomes. There's no prospect of Labour's demands getting a look in unless or until a sufficiently large bloc of Tory defectors crosses the floor to embrace it.

    Tntly agreed, or with some tweaks to try to make it more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
    She doesn't need a majority to revoke.
    I think she does.

    But even if she did not, why would she?
    Does she, Sean? I don't think so. She could just write a letter, no?

    Why would she? Well, if I were in her shoes and I had to make the dreadful choice between No Deal or Revoke, I'd choose the latter. Marginal choice, it's true, but on balance I'd figure the long-term damage to the Country, Party and my own reputation would be less.

    I know you don't share that view, and you are by no means alone, but I'm trying to look at impartially. From a betting viewpoint, I'd certainly think that option should be less the 7/1 currnetly available.
    That's confirmation bias, Peter, based on what you want to happen.
    It's not value.
    Nobody's immune, Casino, but I'm trying my best.

    Let me ask you this. Imagine the can has been kicked down to the end of the road and we are facing a No Deal exit tomorrow. All other possibilities have been exhausted except that one and Revoke. (Assume for the purposes of this hypothetical but by no means implausible scenario that the PM can still write a letter which revokes A50.) You are a bookie. It's a two-horse race. What odds are you going?

    I'm not trying to trick you into a bet here, and I wouldn't bet on this one anyway. Too many imponderables. But if it were such a two-horse race, I know what my odds would be. You want to tell me yours, or shall I go first?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    I know it's Guido but he has the figures.

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1093605316439138304

    Even with Brexit the UK economy will probably grow better than elsewhere in Europe..

    The EU predicted figures for Britain are based on existing trade arrangements, so no Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1093516463103606784?s=19
    That's very interesting. Malta top. I'm not really surprised. They embrace immigrants and it has a definite socialist feel to it. Very cheap public transport and utility bills are subsidised.
    Eastern Europe is growing strongly, likely to continue to catch up with Western Europe. Our East European diaspora is likely to be a particularly important segment of our economy, if we retain close trading links. Nice to see Greece recovering well too.
    The ethos of the EU; The bigger economies help lift the smaller ones for everyone's long term benefit. How were they to know the UK didn't like sharing a little for the benefit of all?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    kyf_100 said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's 19% rating must be a concern for Labour strategists.

    Masterful understatement. The last thing we need is for Brexit to get even more complicated but as soon as that is out of the way he really needs to stand down and let Emily Thornberry take over.
    If Thornberry is the answer, you have to wonder what the heck is the question.
    Which Labour Politician does Sean T have lurid sexual thoughts about?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,730

    Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more opportunity Theresa May is given to diddle about and keep running down the clock, the less likely anything other than her Withdrawal Agreement or Hard Brexit becomes. There's no prospect of Labour's demands getting a look in unless or until a sufficiently large bloc of Tory defectors crosses the floor to embrace it.

    Tntly agreed, or with some tweaks to try to make it more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
    She doesn't need a majority to revoke.
    I think she does.

    But even if she did not, why would she?
    Does she, Sean? I don't think so. She could just write a letter, no?

    Why would she? Well, if I were in her shoes and I had to make the dreadful choice between No Deal or Revoke, I'd choose the latter. Marginal choice, it's true, but on balance I'd figure the long-term damage to the Country, Party and my own reputation would be less.

    I know you don't share that view, and you are by no means alone, but I'm trying to look at impartially. From a betting viewpoint, I'd certainly think that option should be less the 7/1 currnetly available.
    That's confirmation bias, Peter, based on what you want to happen.
    It's not value.
    Nobody's immune, Casino, but I'm trying my best.

    Let me ask you this. Imagine the can has been kicked down to the end of the road and we are facing a No Deal exit tomorrow. All other possibilities have been exhausted except that one and Revoke. (Assume for the purposes of this hypothetical but by no means implausible scenario that the PM can still write a letter which revokes A50.) You are a bookie. It's a two-horse race. What odds are you going?

    I'm not trying to trick you into a bet here, and I wouldn't bet on this one anyway. Too many imponderables. But if it were such a two-horse race, I know what my odds would be. You want to tell me yours, or shall I go first?
    One thing we're already starting to see is Brexiteers proposing revocation as a way to escape the 'trap' of Article 50. With the right framing, it could be surprisingly popular across the spectrum.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    I know it's Guido but he has the figures.

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1093605316439138304

    Even with Brexit the UK economy will probably grow better than elsewhere in Europe..

    The EU predicted figures for Britain are based on existing trade arrangements, so no Brexit.
    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1093516463103606784?s=19
    That's very interesting. Malta top. I'm not really surprised. They embrace immigrants and it has a definite socialist feel to it. Very cheap public transport and utility bills are subsidised.
    Eastern Europe is growing strongly, likely to continue to catch up with Western Europe. Our East European diaspora is likely to be a particularly important segment of our economy, if we retain close trading links. Nice to see Greece recovering well too.
    The ethos of the EU; The bigger economies help lift the smaller ones for everyone's long term benefit. How were they to know the UK didn't like sharing a little for the benefit of all?
    Yes, I for one am very happy with the efforts we made in the last 30 years to bring back Eastern Europe into the mainstream of European Democracy and Economic Liberalism. Certainly still some way to go, but the contributions of our leadership of the EU in this project is something to be rightly proud of.
  • Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more opportunity Theresa May is given to diddle about and keep running down the clock, the less likely anything other than her Withdrawal Agreement or Hard Brexit becomes. There's no prospect of Labour's demands getting a look in unless or until a sufficiently large bloc of Tory defectors crosses the floor to embrace it.

    Tntly agreed, or with some tweaks to try to make it more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
    She doesn't need a majority to revoke.
    I think she does.

    But even if she did not, why would she?
    Does she, Sean? I don't think so. She could just write a letter, no?

    Why would she? Well, if I were in her shoes and I had to make the dreadful choice between No Deal or Revoke, I'd choose the latter. Marginal choice, it's true, but on balance I'd figure the long-term damage to the Country, Party and my own reputation would be less.

    I know you don't share that view, and you are by no means alone, but I'm trying to look at impartially. From a betting viewpoint, I'd certainly think that option should be less the 7/1 currnetly available.
    That's confirmation bias, Peter, based on what you want to happen.
    It's not value.
    Nobody's immune, Casino, but I'm trying my best.

    Let me ask you this. Imagine the can has been kicked down to the end of the road and we are facing a No Deal exit tomorrow. All other possibilities have been exhausted except that one and Revoke. (Assume for the purposes of this hypothetical but by no means implausible scenario that the PM can still write a letter which revokes A50.) You are a bookie. It's a two-horse race. What odds are you going?

    I'm not trying to trick you into a bet here, and I wouldn't bet on this one anyway. Too many imponderables. But if it were such a two-horse race, I know what my odds would be. You want to tell me yours, or shall I go first?
    If it got to that stage, and May was still in office? 4/1. A 2-3 month delay? Odds on. I'd say 4/6.
    I think she's serious.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    kyf_100 said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's 19% rating must be a concern for Labour strategists.

    Masterful understatement. The last thing we need is for Brexit to get even more complicated but as soon as that is out of the way he really needs to stand down and let Emily Thornberry take over.
    If Thornberry is the answer, you have to wonder what the heck is the question.
    Which Labour Politician does Sean T have lurid sexual thoughts about?
    Shami Chakrabarti.

    I've read "Kissing England"...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    kyf_100 said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's 19% rating must be a concern for Labour strategists.

    Masterful understatement. The last thing we need is for Brexit to get even more complicated but as soon as that is out of the way he really needs to stand down and let Emily Thornberry take over.
    If Thornberry is the answer, you have to wonder what the heck is the question.
    Which Labour Politician does Sean T have lurid sexual thoughts about?
    All of them!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's 19% rating must be a concern for Labour strategists.

    Masterful understatement. The last thing we need is for Brexit to get even more complicated but as soon as that is out of the way he really needs to stand down and let Emily Thornberry take over.
    If Thornberry is the answer, you have to wonder what the heck is the question.
    Which Labour Politician does Sean T have lurid sexual thoughts about?
    Shami Chakrabarti.

    I've read "Kissing England"...
    That would be me! love those eyes...
  • Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
    She doesn't need a majority to revoke.
    I think she does.

    But even if she did not, why would she?
    Does she, Sean? I don't think so. She could just write a letter, no?

    Why would she? Well, if I were in her shoes and I had to make the dreadful choice between No Deal or Revoke, I'd choose the latter. Marginal choice, it's true, but on balance I'd figure the long-term damage to the Country, Party and my own reputation would be less.

    I know you don't share that view, and you are by no means alone, but I'm trying to look at impartially. From a betting viewpoint, I'd certainly think that option should be less the 7/1 currnetly available.
    That's confirmation bias, Peter, based on what you want to happen.
    It's not value.
    Nobody's immune, Casino, but I'm trying my best.

    Let me ask you this. Imagine the can has been kicked down to the end of the road and we are facing a No Deal exit tomorrow. All other possibilities have been exhausted except that one and Revoke. (Assume for the purposes of this hypothetical but by no means implausible scenario that the PM can still write a letter which revokes A50.) You are a bookie. It's a two-horse race. What odds are you going?

    I'm not trying to trick you into a bet here, and I wouldn't bet on this one anyway. Too many imponderables. But if it were such a two-horse race, I know what my odds would be. You want to tell me yours, or shall I go first?
    One thing we're already starting to see is Brexiteers proposing revocation as a way to escape the 'trap' of Article 50. With the right framing, it could be surprisingly popular across the spectrum.
    Frankly, William, I think we are in deep shit whatever we do now. I certainly don't think Revoke is an easy answer, whatever side of the divide one might be on.
  • kyf_100 said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's 19% rating must be a concern for Labour strategists.

    Masterful understatement. The last thing we need is for Brexit to get even more complicated but as soon as that is out of the way he really needs to stand down and let Emily Thornberry take over.
    If Thornberry is the answer, you have to wonder what the heck is the question.
    Which Labour Politician does Sean T have lurid sexual thoughts about?
    He's never said, has he? Must be The Beast Of Bolsover though.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's 19% rating must be a concern for Labour strategists.

    Masterful understatement. The last thing we need is for Brexit to get even more complicated but as soon as that is out of the way he really needs to stand down and let Emily Thornberry take over.
    If Thornberry is the answer, you have to wonder what the heck is the question.
    Which Labour Politician does Sean T have lurid sexual thoughts about?
    Shami Chakrabarti.

    I've read "Kissing England"...
    Mr T posted about his Ms Thornberry fantasies last night
  • Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more opportunity Theresa May is given to diddle about and keep running down the clock, the less likely anything other than her Withdrawal Agreement or Hard Brexit becomes. There's no prospect of Labour's demands getting a look in unless or until a sufficiently large bloc of Tory defectors crosses the floor to embrace it.

    Tntly agreed, or with some tweaks to try to make it more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
    She doesn't need a majority to revoke.
    I think she does.

    But even if she did not, why would she?
    Does she, Sean? I don't think so. She could just write a letter, no?e.
    That's confirmation bias, Peter, based on what you want to happen.
    It's not value.
    Nobody's immune, Casino, but I'm trying my best.

    Let me ask you this. Imagine the can has been kicked down to the end of the road and we are facing a No Deal exit tomorrow. All other possibilities have been exhausted except that one and Revoke. (Assume for the purposes of this hypothetical but by no means implausible scenario that the PM can still write a letter which revokes A50.) You are a bookie. It's a two-horse race. What odds are you going?

    I'm not trying to trick you into a bet here, and I wouldn't bet on this one anyway. Too many imponderables. But if it were such a two-horse race, I know what my odds would be. You want to tell me yours, or shall I go first?
    If it got to that stage, and May was still in office? 4/1. A 2-3 month delay? Odds on. I'd say 4/6.
    I think she's serious.
    Might even be 5/1.

    May is like a limpet once she sticks to a policy.

    I know it may be 7/1 or 8/1 now but you did say the scenario was one minute to midnight.

    She would can kick.
  • Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
    She doesn't need a majority to revoke.
    I think she does.

    But even if she did not, why would she?
    Does she, Sean? I don't think so. She could just write a letter, no?

    Why would she? Well, if I were in her shoes and I had to make the dreadful choice between No Deal or Revoke, I'd choose the latter. Marginal choice, it's true, but on balance I'd figure the long-term damage to the Country, Party and my own reputation would be less.

    I know you don't share that view, and you are by no means alone, but I'm trying to look at impartially. From a betting viewpoint, I'd certainly think that option should be less the 7/1 currnetly available.
    That's confirmation bias, Peter, based on what you want to happen.
    It's not value.
    I'm not trying to trick you into a bet here, and I wouldn't bet on this one anyway. Too many imponderables. But if it were such a two-horse race, I know what my odds would be. You want to tell me yours, or shall I go first?
    One thing we're already starting to see is Brexiteers proposing revocation as a way to escape the 'trap' of Article 50. With the right framing, it could be surprisingly popular across the spectrum.
    Frankly, William, I think we are in deep shit whatever we do now. I certainly don't think Revoke is an easy answer, whatever side of the divide one might be on.
    The EU could probably end this now by putting Cameron's deal back on the table in a draft treaty with a promise to look at reform of free movement in future, with some political guidelines appended to it, and to say all sides had learned lessons from this.

    But, that's never going to happen. They're far too myopic and inflexible.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    kyf_100 said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's 19% rating must be a concern for Labour strategists.

    Masterful understatement. The last thing we need is for Brexit to get even more complicated but as soon as that is out of the way he really needs to stand down and let Emily Thornberry take over.
    If Thornberry is the answer, you have to wonder what the heck is the question.
    Which politician should have been played by Patricia Routledge?
    I hand you a Bucket, er, Bouquet for that one.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
    She doesn't need a majority to revoke.
    I think she does.

    But even if she did not, why would she?
    Does she, Sean? I don't think so. She could just write a letter, no?

    Why would she? Well, if I were in her shoes and I had to make the dreadful choice between No Deal or Revoke, I'd choose the latter. Marginal choice, it's true, but on balance I'd figure the long-term damage to the Country, Party and my own reputation would be less.

    I know you don't share that view, and you are by no means alone, but I'm trying to look at impartially. From a betting viewpoint, I'd certainly think that option should be less the 7/1 currnetly available.
    That's confirmation bias, Peter, based on what you want to happen.
    It's not value.
    I'm not trying to trick you into a bet here, and I wouldn't bet on this one anyway. Too many imponderables. But if it were such a two-horse race, I know what my odds would be. You want to tell me yours, or shall I go first?
    One thing we're already starting to see is Brexiteers proposing revocation as a way to escape the 'trap' of Article 50. With the right framing, it could be surprisingly popular across the spectrum.
    Frankly, William, I think we are in deep shit whatever we do now. I certainly don't think Revoke is an easy answer, whatever side of the divide one might be on.
    The EU could probably end this now by putting Cameron's deal back on the table in a draft treaty with a promise to look at reform of free movement in future, with some political guidelines appended to it, and to say all sides had learned lessons from this.

    But, that's never going to happen. They're far too myopic and inflexible.
    Perhaps we should have a #peoplesvote on it :)
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Scott_P said:
    That's deeply misleading. I'm sure she'd welcome Juncker's resignation at this, er, juncture.
  • Sean_F said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Interesting news from Brussels - the EU says Labour’s policy could offer a route out of the impasse. Permanent Customs Union would be a gigantic relief for our business, and many others.

    Let’s do it.

    Tusk saying that has probably just reduced its chances.
    The more opportunity Theresa May is given to diddle about and keep running down the clock, the less likely anything other than her Withdrawal Agreement or Hard Brexit becomes. There's no prospect of Labour's demands getting a look in unless or until a sufficiently large bloc of Tory defectors crosses the floor to embrace it.

    Tntly agreed, or with some tweaks to try to make it more palatable) and it makes it onto the statute book, or Parliament continues to decline to vote for it and No Deal happens. Where does the necessary majority of votes come from for anything else?
    She doesn't need a majority to revoke.
    I think she does.

    But even if she did not, why would she?
    Does she, Sean? I don't think so. She could just write a letter, no?e.
    That's confirmation bias, Peter, based on what you want to happen.
    It's not value.
    Nobody's immune, Casino, but I'm trying my best.

    Let50.) You are a bookie. It's a two-horse race. What odds are you going?

    I'm not trying to trick you into a bet here, and I wouldn't bet on this one anyway. Too many imponderables. But if it were such a two-horse race, I know what my odds would be. You want to tell me yours, or shall I go first?
    If it got to that stage, and May was still in office? 4/1. A 2-3 month delay? Odds on. I'd say 4/6.
    I think she's serious.
    Might even be 5/1.

    May is like a limpet once she sticks to a policy.

    I know it may be 7/1 or 8/1 now but you did say the scenario was one minute to midnight.

    She would can kick.
    Well I was trying to simplify the situation as much as possible, and the reality is never likely to be that simple. Yes, in practice I guess she'd find a way to kick the can again, but let's say it really came down to Revoke or No Deal.

    Personally I'd make it 8/11 Revoke if the only other runner was ND. And I really am wearing my punter's hat here, or trying to.
This discussion has been closed.