Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Which members of the shadow cabinet would resign?
A report said most. It does beg the question why Starmer is still there
Corbyn is more a Brexiteer than ERG
Today a second referendum died
Big G repeating the lie too
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Referendum is party policy. Just get on with it Jezza.
Luciana (I hate Corbyn so much i couldnt bring myself to say a Labour Government would be good) Berger Mike (I hate Corbyn so much i repeat the IRA Hamas Hezbollah slur most weeks) Gapes Chukka( I see an opportunity for me here) Ummana
Have royally fooked this up
Lets blame Corbyn!
When will Corbyn deliver on his promise to members at conference. Get on with it.
Meantime, an interesting article on Kamala Harris's early political career, which makes me look forward to the forthcoming Democratic debates...
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/01/24/kamala-harris-2020-history-224126 As Stearns tells it, Harris rose from her seat at the front of the sanctuary and stepped behind Terence Hallinan, the incumbent who billed himself as “America’s most progressive district attorney.” She told the audience, “You know Terence Hallinan has attacked Bill Fazio for being caught in a massage parlor,” a reference to a 1998 raid. Fazio, a former prosecutor who had run two close races against Hallinan and was now taking a third shot at the office, maintained he was there to conduct interviews for a legal case he was working on. He was never charged with any crime.
Then, Harris walked behind Fazio, Stearns said, and recounted the times her opponent had criticized Hallinan “for people having sex in his office,” referring to an incident in which two of Hallinan’s prosecutors were found in flagrante delicto inside the building.
“And then she walked back to the middle and said, ‘I want to make a commitment to you that my campaign is not going to be about negative attacks,’” said Stearns, who is still a Democratic strategist in the city. “’I believe we need to talk about the issues and the policies and the way we’re going to move our criminal justice system forward.”
The response was immediate. “People just jumped on their feet and gave her a standing ovation,” Stearns said. “And I was at the back of the church, and the look on the face of Terence Hallinan and Bill Fazio was, ‘Oh, shit.’’”
Classic.
X accused Y of doing A Y accused X of doing B
But I am definitely not going to remind you of either A or B.
To be fair, it was in the context of a personal attack on her, so perhaps came across as slightly less cynical. A deft piece of ruthless politics.
The current system we were locked in is great for the wealthy and the poor in eastern europe.
It's not good for the lower skilled members of our community. We have an obligation to look to their interests.
Brexit will allow our politicians the ability to address these deep seated problems. I doubt they will take it, but they should. And if they don't we can sack them and replace them with others who will.
Agree. It will be interesting how this unfolds, starting quite soon. Everyone is underestimating how many sides to the post- Brexit debate there will be. Especially because as soon as we have left it becomes legitimate to debate how we shall rejoin. It won't take the SNP long to start campaigning both to leave the UK and for UK to join the EU. If we leave on 29th March it will start on the 30th.
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Which members of the shadow cabinet would resign?
A report said most. It does beg the question why Starmer is still there
Corbyn is more a Brexiteer than ERG
Today a second referendum died
I think Theresa's going to pull her deal off (with a couple of tweaks) Big G.
I have maintained all along TM deal, maybe tweaked, was a good deal but this record defeat was the result of the two extremes, leave and remain, voting it down on the hope of winning their arguments
With no deal and referendum virtually off the table it has to be this deal or then what
Need the DUP , the ERG and a few Labour "referendum respecters" to get on board with Murrison's amendment.
I understand the government may support it. Just hope Bercow behaves
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Which members of the shadow cabinet would resign?
A report said most. It does beg the question why Starmer is still there
Corbyn is more a Brexiteer than ERG
Today a second referendum died
Big G repeating the lie too
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Referendum is party policy. Just get on with it Jezza.
Luciana (I hate Corbyn so much i couldnt bring myself to say a Labour Government would be good) Berger Mike (I hate Corbyn so much i repeat the IRA Hamas Hezbollah slur most weeks) Gapes Chukka( I see an opportunity for me here) Ummana
Have royally fooked this up
Lets blame Corbyn!
When will Corbyn deliver on his promise to members at conference. Get on with it.
He is exploring all options back him
And will do so for as long as it takes to avoid committing himself to anything.
What are the golden couple (Adonis and Campbell) going to do next?
A burning sense of grievance attached to a well organised campaign structure with widespread popular support is very likely to keep the euro-enthusiasts flame going until the next referendum. Whether that is weeks away or years is the only question.
As the header suggests, Brexit will not help the distressed areas and sectors, so in time is very likely to be reversed.
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Which members of the shadow cabinet would resign?
A report said most. It does beg the question why Starmer is still there
Corbyn is more a Brexiteer than ERG
Today a second referendum died
Big G repeating the lie too
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
If the choice was EUref2 or No Deal I expect significantly more Tory MPs than 10% would back EUref2
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Which members of the shadow cabinet would resign?
A report said most. It does beg the question why Starmer is still there
Corbyn is more a Brexiteer than ERG
Today a second referendum died
I think Theresa's going to pull her deal off (with a couple of tweaks) Big G.
I have maintained all along TM deal, maybe tweaked, was a good deal but this record defeat was the result of the two extremes, leave and remain, voting it down on the hope of winning their arguments
With no deal and referendum virtually off the table it has to be this deal or then what
Need the DUP , the ERG and a few Labour "referendum respecters" to get on board with Murrison's amendment.
I understand the government may support it. Just hope Bercow behaves
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Which members of the shadow cabinet would resign?
A report said most. It does beg the question why Starmer is still there
Corbyn is more a Brexiteer than ERG
Today a second referendum died
No it didn't nothing is dead yet until the end of March, including even the Deal
What do we think of Campbell-Bannerman MEP's response to the Airbus CEO's comments:
"Here we have a German CEO putting EU interests first before his own employees. A disgrace. As with Galileo UK should make plans to take over these plants and sell into the global marketplace with our own planes."
I have heard of Trotskyists who think like this - "Seize the plants! Launch our own projects!" Haven't heard it from the Conservative Party up to now.
I'm not sure many of our politicans grasp that the WA is the start of the process. Not the end of it...
It's not just the politicians that seem to miss that obvious point, much of the media, and most of the public seem to think that the WA is the end. If May's Deal deserves criticism it ought to be for the political declaration being so flimsy, in the grand scheme of things that's the bit that matters most, not the transition, or even the backstop.
I thought there would be a lot more backing for it.
I am a passionate anti-fan of the 2nd referendum, and I can't really see it happening, but to keep an open mind - if there were to be a pre Brexit GE, the Labour manifesto might include words to the effect of:
"We will seek to negotiate a jobs first Brexit deal and will then ask the public to approve that deal in a referendum."
Labour might possibly win that election, and such a referendum might eventually then take place.
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Which members of the shadow cabinet would resign?
A report said most. It does beg the question why Starmer is still there
Corbyn is more a Brexiteer than ERG
Today a second referendum died
Big G repeating the lie too
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Referendum is party policy. Just get on with it Jezza.
Luciana (I hate Corbyn so much i couldnt bring myself to say a Labour Government would be good) Berger Mike (I hate Corbyn so much i repeat the IRA Hamas Hezbollah slur most weeks) Gapes Chukka( I see an opportunity for me here) Ummana
Have royally fooked this up
Lets blame Corbyn!
I'm ex-Labour and if the extent of the left's ambition is to control the Labour party then fine, you've got it. Given Corbyn's abysmal personal approval ratings at a time when the government is in total disarray the only conclusion to draw is that he is an albatross around the party's neck but it's going to take another GE for the penny to drop.
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Which members of the shadow cabinet would resign?
A report said most. It does beg the question why Starmer is still there
Corbyn is more a Brexiteer than ERG
Today a second referendum died
I think Theresa's going to pull her deal off (with a couple of tweaks) Big G.
I have maintained all along TM deal, maybe tweaked, was a good deal but this record defeat was the result of the two extremes, leave and remain, voting it down on the hope of winning their arguments
With no deal and referendum virtually off the table it has to be this deal or then what
Need the DUP , the ERG and a few Labour "referendum respecters" to get on board with Murrison's amendment.
I understand the government may support it. Just hope Bercow behaves
Meantime, an interesting article on Kamala Harris's early political career, which makes me look forward to the forthcoming Democratic debates...
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/01/24/kamala-harris-2020-history-224126 As Stearns tells it, Harris rose from her seat at the front of the sanctuary and stepped behind Terence Hallinan, the incumbent who billed himself as “America’s most progressive district attorney.” She told the audience, “You know Terence Hallinan has attacked Bill Fazio for being caught in a massage parlor,” a reference to a 1998 raid. Fazio, a former prosecutor who had run two close races against Hallinan and was now taking a third shot at the office, maintained he was there to conduct interviews for a legal case he was working on. He was never charged with any crime.
Then, Harris walked behind Fazio, Stearns said, and recounted the times her opponent had criticized Hallinan “for people having sex in his office,” referring to an incident in which two of Hallinan’s prosecutors were found in flagrante delicto inside the building.
“And then she walked back to the middle and said, ‘I want to make a commitment to you that my campaign is not going to be about negative attacks,’” said Stearns, who is still a Democratic strategist in the city. “’I believe we need to talk about the issues and the policies and the way we’re going to move our criminal justice system forward.”
The response was immediate. “People just jumped on their feet and gave her a standing ovation,” Stearns said. “And I was at the back of the church, and the look on the face of Terence Hallinan and Bill Fazio was, ‘Oh, shit.’’”
Classic.
X accused Y of doing A Y accused X of doing B
But I am definitely not going to remind you of either A or B.
To be fair, it was in the context of a personal attack on her, so perhaps came across as slightly less cynical. A deft piece of ruthless politics.
If Kamala debates Trump, popcorn sales will skyrocket!
Klobuchar may be as effective though, just in a slightly more low key way.
What do we think of Campbell-Bannerman MEP's response to the Airbus CEO's comments:
"Here we have a German CEO putting EU interests first before his own employees. A disgrace. As with Galileo UK should make plans to take over these plants and sell into the global marketplace with our own planes."
I have heard of Trotskyists who think like this - "Seize the plants! Launch our own projects!" Haven't heard it from the Conservative Party up to now.
He's basically a Kipper who fell out with Farage
And why was he invited back to represent the Tories in the European parliament?
The fact that he is totally unknown probably tells you all you need to know about the lack of thought within the higher reaches or indeed any of the reaches of the Tory party.
You'll be pleased to know that I saw John Penrose at a number of fringe events at conference and have a copy of said policy paper at home
The current system we were locked in is great for the wealthy and the poor in eastern europe.
It's not good for the lower skilled members of our community. We have an obligation to look to their interests.
Brexit will allow our politicians the ability to address these deep seated problems. I doubt they will take it, but they should. And if they don't we can sack them and replace them with others who will.
And no Brexit would afford them much the same opportunity. Alastair is quite right; it is an enormous and costly distraction.
What do we think of Campbell-Bannerman MEP's response to the Airbus CEO's comments:
"Here we have a German CEO putting EU interests first before his own employees. A disgrace. As with Galileo UK should make plans to take over these plants and sell into the global marketplace with our own planes."
I have heard of Trotskyists who think like this - "Seize the plants! Launch our own projects!" Haven't heard it from the Conservative Party up to now.
The current system we were locked in is great for the wealthy and the poor in eastern europe.
It's not good for the lower skilled members of our community. We have an obligation to look to their interests.
Brexit will allow our politicians the ability to address these deep seated problems. I doubt they will take it, but they should. And if they don't we can sack them and replace them with others who will.
Are the interests of low-skilled Germans better protected? If so, how?
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
You're over-egging this somewhat. There's been no demise of the people's vote. This is all just a tactical move to keep the pressure on Corbyn and May.
I thought there would be a lot more backing for it.
I am a passionate anti-fan of the 2nd referendum, and I can't really see it happening, but to keep an open mind - if there were to be a pre Brexit GE, the Labour manifesto might include words to the effect of:
"We will seek to negotiate a jobs first Brexit deal and will then ask the public to approve that deal in a referendum."
Labour might possibly win that election, and such a referendum might eventually then take place.
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Which members of the shadow cabinet would resign?
A report said most. It does beg the question why Starmer is still there
Corbyn is more a Brexiteer than ERG
Today a second referendum died
Big G repeating the lie too
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Referendum is party policy. Just get on with it Jezza.
Luciana (I hate Corbyn so much i couldnt bring myself to say a Labour Government would be good) Berger Mike (I hate Corbyn so much i repeat the IRA Hamas Hezbollah slur most weeks) Gapes Chukka( I see an opportunity for me here) Ummana
Have royally fooked this up
Lets blame Corbyn!
When will Corbyn deliver on his promise to members at conference. Get on with it.
He is exploring all options back him
Members were clear. He needs to extract the fence from his behind and implement Labour Party policy.
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Which members of the shadow cabinet would resign?
A report said most. It does beg the question why Starmer is still there
Corbyn is more a Brexiteer than ERG
Today a second referendum died
I think Theresa's going to pull her deal off (with a couple of tweaks) Big G.
Agree. It sounds improbable, but it is much less improbable than the alternatives. There is at least a thinkable route to TM's deal; there is a thinkable route to no deal, but a huge majority intend to ensure it does not happen. There is no coherent route to any other outcome. Therefore it will happen. If we reach the middle/late March like this it will concentrate minds wonderfully, like being hanged in a fortnight.
Yeah, when May says to Labour "Hey guys, my party is about to destroy its reputation for competence for a generation, fancy rescuing us? Don't worry, I'm sure you won't lose too many of your voters to the Lib Dems and UKIP in the process", how will they be able to resist?
Perfectly good point, but firstly, does Labour want to run the risk of being held responsible for 'no deal'; secondly the best weapon for avoiding blame is the use of abstention - which I think may be a major factor; thirdly the atmosphere if this gets to mid/Late March will be very different from now. Party advantage may seem about as important as in 1940 (though no bets there on that!) Fourth: Corbyn is a committed leaver and this should not be underestimated. Fifth, from a north England perspective Labour voters and leave are very much joined at the hip in large numbers. Sixth, I think there are a decent number of Labour MPs who have no intention of trashing the country.
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
You're over-egging this somewhat. There's been no demise of the people's vote. This is all just a tactical move to keep the pressure on Corbyn and May.
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
There is a lot of chicken counting going on PB this morning.
Way, way a lot of water yet to pass under the bridge.
Exactly. There isn't a single outcome from this whole fiasco, from no deal through deal through referendum through revocation, that looks at all likely right now. Yet we all know that one of them must come to pass.
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
You're over-egging this somewhat. There's been no demise of the people's vote. This is all just a tactical move to keep the pressure on Corbyn and May.
And it is not working. They do not have the numbers and too many labour mps are absolutely opposed to it
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
You're over-egging this somewhat. There's been no demise of the people's vote. This is all just a tactical move to keep the pressure on Corbyn and May.
And it is not working. They do not have the numbers and too many labour mps are absolutely opposed to it
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Which members of the shadow cabinet would resign?
A report said most. It does beg the question why Starmer is still there
Corbyn is more a Brexiteer than ERG
Today a second referendum died
I think Theresa's going to pull her deal off (with a couple of tweaks) Big G.
Agree. It sounds improbable, but it is much less improbable than the alternatives. There is at least a thinkable route to TM's deal; there is a thinkable route to no deal, but a huge majority intend to ensure it does not happen. There is no coherent route to any other outcome. Therefore it will happen. If we reach the middle/late March like this it will concentrate minds wonderfully, like being hanged in a fortnight.
Yeah, when May says to Labour "Hey guys, my party is about to destroy its reputation for competence for a generation, fancy rescuing us? Don't worry, I'm sure you won't lose too many of your voters to the Lib Dems and UKIP in the process", how will they be able to resist?
Perfectly good point, but firstly, does Labour want to run the risk of being held responsible for 'no deal'; secondly the best weapon for avoiding blame is the use of abstention - which I think may be a major factor; thirdly the atmosphere if this gets to mid/Late March will be very different from now. Party advantage may seem about as important as in 1940 (though no bets there on that!) Fourth: Corbyn is a committed leaver and this should not be underestimated. Fifth, from a north England perspective Labour voters and leave are very much joined at the hip in large numbers. Sixth, I think there are a decent number of Labour MPs who have no intention of trashing the country.
If we leave, however it is, will be the government's fault. That is simply the way it is. Which explains why Labour is so fond of its perch up on that there fence.
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Their position seems to be "Corbyn should back a second referendum, even though it's not his personal preference, even though a second referendum is unlikely to have the votes in Parliament to pass, even though a Remain vote is unlikely even if a referendum does happen, and even though it would immensely harm Labour's chances of winning an election".
It's not the most enticing offer in history...
Yeah, but apart from all that....
Second voters and the ERG are on a race to the delusional bottom. I originally thought no contest but a late spurt has made it too close to call.
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
Right now a second referendum is as about as dead as May’s deal. No majority for either.
Far from it, if EUref2 or single market and Customs Union get about 300 MPs backing them when the Commons votes for them in the next few weeks even if they fail initially No Dealers will start to shift to the Deal in large numbers to avoid them getting through on the second vote.
If the Deal still fails many Deal backing MPs will then shift to EUref2 or BINO
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Which members of the shadow cabinet would resign?
A report said most. It does beg the question why Starmer is still there
Corbyn is more a Brexiteer than ERG
Today a second referendum died
Big G repeating the lie too
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
One irony is that in pulling the vote and tactically waiting until other options have been tried, they are coming quite close to Labour's official position of prioritising a GE first.
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
There is a lot of chicken counting going on PB this morning.
Way, way a lot of water yet to pass under the bridge.
I do accept that a referendum could find its way onto the agenda but todays surrender by the peoples vote group due to the large number of labour mps opposing it makes it very much less likely
What do we think of Campbell-Bannerman MEP's response to the Airbus CEO's comments:
"Here we have a German CEO putting EU interests first before his own employees. A disgrace. As with Galileo UK should make plans to take over these plants and sell into the global marketplace with our own planes."
I have heard of Trotskyists who think like this - "Seize the plants! Launch our own projects!" Haven't heard it from the Conservative Party up to now.
He's basically a Kipper who fell out with Farage
I worked for Campbell Bannermann as a student at Warwick University when he was Tory candidate for Warwick and Leamington, he was sharp and quite good fun with a colourful love life if I recall
Perfectly good point, but firstly, does Labour want to run the risk of being held responsible for 'no deal'; secondly the best weapon for avoiding blame is the use of abstention - which I think may be a major factor; thirdly the atmosphere if this gets to mid/Late March will be very different from now. Party advantage may seem about as important as in 1940 (though no bets there on that!) Fourth: Corbyn is a committed leaver and this should not be underestimated. Fifth, from a north England perspective Labour voters and leave are very much joined at the hip in large numbers. Sixth, I think there are a decent number of Labour MPs who have no intention of trashing the country.
1. Depends how risk averse they are, but it's likely that the Tories will take much more of the blame. 2. I don't think the reaction to May's deal getting through because Labour abstains would very different to it getting through because Labour supports. In fact it'd likely be better for May, because nobody would be able to use the "you only got this through with Labour support" line. So I don't think this would help much 3. I don't think so, but really this is just guesswork either way. 4. & 5. No Deal is leaving? 6. Sure, and I think this is the most important factor in Labour possibly voting for the deal. But the actual situation is likely to look more like them sticking their necks out with absolutely no guarantee the vote will pass anyway.
Perfectly good point, but firstly, does Labour want to run the risk of being held responsible for 'no deal'; secondly the best weapon for avoiding blame is the use of abstention - which I think may be a major factor; thirdly the atmosphere if this gets to mid/Late March will be very different from now. Party advantage may seem about as important as in 1940 (though no bets there on that!) Fourth: Corbyn is a committed leaver and this should not be underestimated. Fifth, from a north England perspective Labour voters and leave are very much joined at the hip in large numbers. Sixth, I think there are a decent number of Labour MPs who have no intention of trashing the country.
Some thoughts on those points: 1: there's a strong feeling in the party that we shouldn't be blackmailed into supporting something we think is bad for the country and our voters, and that we can defend that position successfully 2: abstention is pathetic and will (I predict) not be used as the main tactic 3: agree atmosphere will change as the clock ticks awasy - not sure in what direction, though 4: Corbyn is opposed to leaving. He's said so publicly, and privately (to me personally), and he's notorious in pragmatic circles for NOT being willing to say stuff he doesn't mean for the sake of political convenience. The most we can get him to do is not comment (e.g. he's not said anything about Trident for a long time, but I've no doubt he's still against) 5: There's polling data on this - the number are significant but not huge, because although many Labour MPs represent Leave seats, most Labour voters in most Leave seats backed remain. 6: yes, of course. But I think they tend to draw different conclusions from that to yours. tbh there is scope for more than one genuine, patriotic view of all this, and we shouldn't portray each other as reckless arsonists because we disagree.
What do we think of Campbell-Bannerman MEP's response to the Airbus CEO's comments:
"Here we have a German CEO putting EU interests first before his own employees. A disgrace. As with Galileo UK should make plans to take over these plants and sell into the global marketplace with our own planes."
I have heard of Trotskyists who think like this - "Seize the plants! Launch our own projects!" Haven't heard it from the Conservative Party up to now.
He's basically a Kipper who fell out with Farage
I worked for Campbell Bannermann as a student at Warwick University when he was Tory candidate for Warwick and Leamington, he was sharp and quite good fun with a colourful love life if I recall
What do we think of Campbell-Bannerman MEP's response to the Airbus CEO's comments:
"Here we have a German CEO putting EU interests first before his own employees. A disgrace. As with Galileo UK should make plans to take over these plants and sell into the global marketplace with our own planes."
I have heard of Trotskyists who think like this - "Seize the plants! Launch our own projects!" Haven't heard it from the Conservative Party up to now.
Good idea. They make the wings, that's what does the flying. I know there's a bit in the middle but it can't be very important.
Did Mr Meeks really say "Labour, less weighed down by the obsessions of a lunatic mainstream"? Is he kidding us? It is a party that is led by its own lunatic fringe. Whatever one might say that is negative about Mrs May (and there is a lot), one can at least say she is not of the lunatic fringe, and while the ERG has certainly held the Tory mainstream to ransom (I hope that is not forgotten), it has not yet got one of its boneheads in a party leadership position.
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Their position seems to be "Corbyn should back a second referendum, even though it's not his personal preference, even though a second referendum is unlikely to have the votes in Parliament to pass, even though a Remain vote is unlikely even if a referendum does happen, and even though it would immensely harm Labour's chances of winning an election".
It's not the most enticing offer in history...
Yeah, but apart from all that....
Second voters and the ERG are on a race to the delusional bottom. I originally thought no contest but a late spurt has made it too close to call.
Brexit itself is the most delusional project this country has ever embarked upon in modern history.
Perfectly good point, but firstly, does Labour want to run the risk of being held responsible for 'no deal'; secondly the best weapon for avoiding blame is the use of abstention - which I think may be a major factor; thirdly the atmosphere if this gets to mid/Late March will be very different from now. Party advantage may seem about as important as in 1940 (though no bets there on that!) Fourth: Corbyn is a committed leaver and this should not be underestimated. Fifth, from a north England perspective Labour voters and leave are very much joined at the hip in large numbers. Sixth, I think there are a decent number of Labour MPs who have no intention of trashing the country.
1. Depends how risk averse they are, but it's likely that the Tories will take much more of the blame. 2. I don't think the reaction to May's deal getting through because Labour abstains would very different to it getting through because Labour supports. In fact it'd likely be better for May, because nobody would be able to use the "you only got this through with Labour support" line. So I don't think this would help much 3. I don't think so, but really this is just guesswork either way. 4. & 5. No Deal is leaving? 6. Sure, and I think this is the most important factor in Labour possibly voting for the deal. But the actual situation is likely to look more like them sticking their necks out with absolutely no guarantee the vote will pass anyway.
Thanks. All very good points, though I think my third point has more weight and slightly less guesswork than you reckon. The approach of deadlines has interesting effects.
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
What happened this morning?
The peoples vote campaign withdrew their amendment due to lack of support from mps. They appealed to Corbyn to back the policy but he cannot do that with members of his shadow cabinet threatening resignations and many of his mps in leave voring areas totally opposed to a referendum
4: Corbyn is opposed to leaving. He's said so publicly, and privately (to me personally), and he's notorious in pragmatic circles for NOT being willing to say stuff he doesn't mean for the sake of political convenience. The most we can get him to do is not comment (e.g. he's not said anything about Trident for a long time, but I've no doubt he's still against)
Can we have some kind of honour rule where everyone saying Corbyn will vote for No Deal has to make a donation to charity/pb.com hosting costs when they turn out to be wrong? I'm happy to make a contribution if I am wrong and he does vote for No Deal Brexit. I've tried enticing a few serial offenders into a bet but they aren't interested sadly...
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
What happened this morning?
The peoples vote campaign withdrew their amendment due to lack of support from mps. They appealed to Corbyn to back the policy but he cannot do that with members of his shadow cabinet threatening resignations and many of his mps in leave voring areas totally opposed to a referendum
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
What happened this morning?
The peoples vote campaign withdrew their amendment due to lack of support from mps. They appealed to Corbyn to back the policy but he cannot do that with members of his shadow cabinet threatening resignations and many of his mps in leave voring areas totally opposed to a referendum
Labour are focused on backing extending Article 50 and the Cooper amendment making that likely to pass. If it does and no alternative found to the Deal or No Deal in the Commons Labour could then swing behind EUref2 and the Peoples' Vote backers in the Commons would then put it forward
What do we think of Campbell-Bannerman MEP's response to the Airbus CEO's comments:
"Here we have a German CEO putting EU interests first before his own employees. A disgrace. As with Galileo UK should make plans to take over these plants and sell into the global marketplace with our own planes."
I have heard of Trotskyists who think like this - "Seize the plants! Launch our own projects!" Haven't heard it from the Conservative Party up to now.
Good idea. They make the wings, that's what does the flying. I know there's a bit in the middle but it can't be very important.
Yes!
Let's view it as an opportunity for British innovation.
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
What happened this morning?
The peoples vote campaign withdrew their amendment due to lack of support from mps. They appealed to Corbyn to back the policy but he cannot do that with members of his shadow cabinet threatening resignations and many of his mps in leave voring areas totally opposed to a referendum
I think you're misreading this. The chances of a second referendum are higher than a week ago because we have seen that group are disciplined and following a better strategy. They are waiting until the right moment, not giving up.
What do we think of Campbell-Bannerman MEP's response to the Airbus CEO's comments:
"Here we have a German CEO putting EU interests first before his own employees. A disgrace. As with Galileo UK should make plans to take over these plants and sell into the global marketplace with our own planes."
I have heard of Trotskyists who think like this - "Seize the plants! Launch our own projects!" Haven't heard it from the Conservative Party up to now.
He's basically a Kipper who fell out with Farage
I worked for Campbell Bannermann as a student at Warwick University when he was Tory candidate for Warwick and Leamington, he was sharp and quite good fun with a colourful love life if I recall
Was he also bonkers ?
He was keen on pointing out he was the great nephew of Sir Henry Campbell Bannermann, the former Liberal PM
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
What happened this morning?
The peoples vote campaign withdrew their amendment due to lack of support from mps. They appealed to Corbyn to back the policy but he cannot do that with members of his shadow cabinet threatening resignations and many of his mps in leave voring areas totally opposed to a referendum
Labour are focused on backing extending Article 50 and the Cooper amendment making that likely to pass. If it does and no alternative found to the Deal or No Deal in the Commons Labour could then swing behind EUref2
The last thing most people want is more Brexit haggling time. Cooper's amendment is just can-kicking - with no end in sight. Those same Labour MPs who would resign frm the Shadow Cabinet tomorrow if Labour supported a second referendum will resign in six or nine months time.
Did Mr Meeks really say "Labour, less weighed down by the obsessions of a lunatic mainstream"? Is he kidding us? It is a party that is led by its own lunatic fringe. Whatever one might say that is negative about Mrs May (and there is a lot), one can at least say she is not of the lunatic fringe, and while the ERG has certainly held the Tory mainstream to ransom (I hope that is not forgotten), it has not yet got one of its boneheads in a party leadership position.
I was wondering how long it was going to take someone to spot that. All things are relative.
A jobs first Brexit means CU and SM. Norway plus. This is Labour's position.
Better for jobs than all other Brexits. Don't see why people snigger at it. It means what it says and it says what it means.
But it doesn't
The Labour position has (at times) been to have all the benefits of the Single Market without actually being a member of it. Which is impossible. You can't be in the club and out of the club at the same time.
And there is zero evidence that this would be acceptable to the 27 - and even if it were, we don't know the cost of that would be.
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
What happened this morning?
The peoples vote campaign withdrew their amendment due to lack of support from mps. They appealed to Corbyn to back the policy but he cannot do that with members of his shadow cabinet threatening resignations and many of his mps in leave voring areas totally opposed to a referendum
Labour are focused on backing extending Article 50 and the Cooper amendment making that likely to pass. If it does and no alternative found to the Deal or No Deal in the Commons Labour could then swing behind EUref2
You do not seem to be able to react to a change in circumstances.
Re the Cooper amendment there are many voices wanting it limited to three months and of course the EU could say no
The possibility of a referendum has been greatly reduced today just as no deal is almost certainly going to fall.
Perfectly good point, but firstly, does Labour want to run the risk of being held responsible for 'no deal'; secondly the best weapon for avoiding blame is the use of abstention - which I think may be a major factor; thirdly the atmosphere if this gets to mid/Late March will be very different from now. Party advantage may seem about as important as in 1940 (though no bets there on that!) Fourth: Corbyn is a committed leaver and this should not be underestimated. Fifth, from a north England perspective Labour voters and leave are very much joined at the hip in large numbers. Sixth, I think there are a decent number of Labour MPs who have no intention of trashing the country.
Some thoughts on those points: 1: there's a strong feeling in the party that we shouldn't be blackmailed into supporting something we think is bad for the country and our voters, and that we can defend that position successfully 2: abstention is pathetic and will (I predict) not be used as the main tactic 3: agree atmosphere will change as the clock ticks awasy - not sure in what direction, though 4: Corbyn is opposed to leaving. He's said so publicly, and privately (to me personally), and he's notorious in pragmatic circles for NOT being willing to say stuff he doesn't mean for the sake of political convenience. The most we can get him to do is not comment (e.g. he's not said anything about Trident for a long time, but I've no doubt he's still against) 5: There's polling data on this - the number are significant but not huge, because although many Labour MPs represent Leave seats, most Labour voters in most Leave seats backed remain. 6: yes, of course. But I think they tend to draw different conclusions from that to yours. tbh there is scope for more than one genuine, patriotic view of all this, and we shouldn't portray each other as reckless arsonists because we disagree.
Thanks - all good points, though I would like more clarity how certain it is that Corbyn opposes leaving, given the manifesto and his voting record in the past. On your sixth point, as time goes on and the actual choice becomes a binary forced choice between TMs deal or no deal - that is the point at which for most MPs there can only be one answer. I hope.
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
What happened this morning?
The peoples vote campaign withdrew their amendment due to lack of support from mps. They appealed to Corbyn to back the policy but he cannot do that with members of his shadow cabinet threatening resignations and many of his mps in leave voring areas totally opposed to a referendum
Labour are focused on backing extending Article 50 and the Cooper amendment making that likely to pass. If it does and no alternative found to the Deal or No Deal in the Commons Labour could then swing behind EUref2
The last thing most people want is more Brexit haggling time. Cooper's amendment is just can-kicking - with no end in sight. Those same Labour MPs who would resign frm the Shadow Cabinet tomorrow if Labour supported a second referendum will resign in six or nine months time.
Not necessarily true, because quite a few of them think it’s better to stay in the EU - they just don’t think that their electorates will wear it. If the choices are whittled down and it becomes accepted as inevitable, they’ll be delighted to vote and not resign at that point.
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
What happened this morning?
The peoples vote campaign withdrew their amendment due to lack of support from mps. They appealed to Corbyn to back the policy but he cannot do that with members of his shadow cabinet threatening resignations and many of his mps in leave voring areas totally opposed to a referendum
Labour are focused on backing extending Article 50 and the Cooper amendment making that likely to pass. If it does and no alternative found to the Deal or No Deal in the Commons Labour could then swing behind EUref2
The last thing most people want is more Brexit haggling time. Cooper's amendment is just can-kicking - with no end in sight. Those same Labour MPs who would resign frm the Shadow Cabinet tomorrow if Labour supported a second referendum will resign in six or nine months time.
With May it is reported now accepting she will have to delay Brexit if as is likely the Cooper amendment passes, EUref2 or BINO will then come back into play as future amendments as will the Deal as No Deal is pushed into the long grass. Even Macron's finance minister said yesterday Brexit would almost certainly now be delayed
Since the virtual demise of the peoples vote this morning Sky seem to have moved away from the subject. Is Faisal in a corner sobbing ?
What happened this morning?
The peoples vote campaign withdrew their amendment due to lack of support from mps. They appealed to Corbyn to back the policy but he cannot do that with members of his shadow cabinet threatening resignations and many of his mps in leave voring areas totally opposed to a referendum
Labour are focused on backing extending Article 50 and the Cooper amendment making that likely to pass. If it does and no alternative found to the Deal or No Deal in the Commons Labour could then swing behind EUref2
You do not seem to be able to react to a change in circumstances.
Re the Cooper amendment there are many voices wanting it limited to three months and of course the EU could say no
The possibility of a referendum has been greatly reduced today just as no deal is almost certainly going to fall.
Once Brexit is delayed thanks to the Cooper amendment everything is in play
The current system we were locked in is great for the wealthy and the poor in eastern europe.
It's not good for the lower skilled members of our community. We have an obligation to look to their interests.
Brexit will allow our politicians the ability to address these deep seated problems. I doubt they will take it, but they should. And if they don't we can sack them and replace them with others who will.
That’s one of the best arguments for and explanations of Brexit I have ever read. In just a few pithy sentences. Bravo.
Except it is not true.
Brexit does not change the forces of globalisation. It was never about the EU. However if Deal and No Deal both cause the predicted damage to the economy the govt has less power to improve things. If we enter the backstop, we will have less influence over key areas of policy than we do today, which no route out.
The current system we were locked in is great for the wealthy and the poor in eastern europe.
It's not good for the lower skilled members of our community. We have an obligation to look to their interests.
Brexit will allow our politicians the ability to address these deep seated problems. I doubt they will take it, but they should. And if they don't we can sack them and replace them with others who will.
That’s one of the best arguments for and explanations of Brexit I have ever read. In just a few pithy sentences. Bravo.
Except that if you sat down to analyse the problem (without the assistance of alcohol) you would quickly realise that not only is Brexit superfluous to any of the actions needed but that it is likely to be a handicap.
Did Mr Meeks really say "Labour, less weighed down by the obsessions of a lunatic mainstream"? Is he kidding us? It is a party that is led by its own lunatic fringe. Whatever one might say that is negative about Mrs May (and there is a lot), one can at least say she is not of the lunatic fringe, and while the ERG has certainly held the Tory mainstream to ransom (I hope that is not forgotten), it has not yet got one of its boneheads in a party leadership position.
Did Mr Meeks really say "Labour, less weighed down by the obsessions of a lunatic mainstream"? Is he kidding us? It is a party that is led by its own lunatic fringe. Whatever one might say that is negative about Mrs May (and there is a lot), one can at least say she is not of the lunatic fringe, and while the ERG has certainly held the Tory mainstream to ransom (I hope that is not forgotten), it has not yet got one of its boneheads in a party leadership position.
I was wondering how long it was going to take someone to spot that. All things are relative.
Mmm, but some pigs are more equal than others. The only way the Tory Party could equal Labour in the general extremity index would be to appoint Nigel Farage to party leader with Tommy Robinson as deputy/chancellor. The Tories certainly have their massive problems with extremists and numpties, but as yet they haven't quite taken over the leadership.
Peoples voter MPs repeating the lie that if Jeremy Corbyn backed it It could pass.
Christ these people are intellectually Bankrupt
Owen Jones 🌹 Verified account
@OwenJones84 4m4 minutes ago More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Adam Payne This is just dishonesty. Even if Labour backed a referendum, a third of the Shadow Cabinet would resign and up to a quarter of Labour MPs would vote against. Less than 10% of Tory MPs would back it: that’s why it’s doomed. So why isn’t Sarah Wollaston blaming her colleagues?
Their position seems to be "Corbyn should back a second referendum, even though it's not his personal preference, even though a second referendum is unlikely to have the votes in Parliament to pass, even though a Remain vote is unlikely even if a referendum does happen, and even though it would immensely harm Labour's chances of winning an election".
It's not the most enticing offer in history...
Yeah, but apart from all that....
Second voters and the ERG are on a race to the delusional bottom. I originally thought no contest but a late spurt has made it too close to call.
Brexit itself is the most delusional project this country has ever embarked upon in modern history.
For sure. Most intelligent people can see that already. The question is whether the country as a whole realises it before, or after.
Did Mr Meeks really say "Labour, less weighed down by the obsessions of a lunatic mainstream"? Is he kidding us? It is a party that is led by its own lunatic fringe. Whatever one might say that is negative about Mrs May (and there is a lot), one can at least say she is not of the lunatic fringe, and while the ERG has certainly held the Tory mainstream to ransom (I hope that is not forgotten), it has not yet got one of its boneheads in a party leadership position.
I was wondering how long it was going to take someone to spot that. All things are relative.
Mmm, but some pigs are more equal than others. The only way the Tory Party could equal Labour in the general extremity index would be to appoint Nigel Farage to party leader with Tommy Robinson as deputy/chancellor. The Tories certainly have their massive problems with extremists and numpties, but as yet they haven't quite taken over the leadership.
Maybe the Tory Party will elevate Nigel Farage to the leadership.
Did Mr Meeks really say "Labour, less weighed down by the obsessions of a lunatic mainstream"? Is he kidding us? It is a party that is led by its own lunatic fringe. Whatever one might say that is negative about Mrs May (and there is a lot), one can at least say she is not of the lunatic fringe, and while the ERG has certainly held the Tory mainstream to ransom (I hope that is not forgotten), it has not yet got one of its boneheads in a party leadership position.
I was wondering how long it was going to take someone to spot that. All things are relative.
I spotted it straightaway but thought it best to let you have your little joke.
Did Mr Meeks really say "Labour, less weighed down by the obsessions of a lunatic mainstream"? Is he kidding us? It is a party that is led by its own lunatic fringe. Whatever one might say that is negative about Mrs May (and there is a lot), one can at least say she is not of the lunatic fringe, and while the ERG has certainly held the Tory mainstream to ransom (I hope that is not forgotten), it has not yet got one of its boneheads in a party leadership position.
Poor IDS: forgotten already.
Ah yes, fair enough. thankfully he was ruthlessly dispatched> something the PLP has proven unable to do with their equivalent
Did Mr Meeks really say "Labour, less weighed down by the obsessions of a lunatic mainstream"? Is he kidding us? It is a party that is led by its own lunatic fringe. Whatever one might say that is negative about Mrs May (and there is a lot), one can at least say she is not of the lunatic fringe, and while the ERG has certainly held the Tory mainstream to ransom (I hope that is not forgotten), it has not yet got one of its boneheads in a party leadership position.
I was wondering how long it was going to take someone to spot that. All things are relative.
Mmm, but some pigs are more equal than others. The only way the Tory Party could equal Labour in the general extremity index would be to appoint Nigel Farage to party leader with Tommy Robinson as deputy/chancellor. The Tories certainly have their massive problems with extremists and numpties, but as yet they haven't quite taken over the leadership.
Maybe the Tory Party will elevate Nigel Farage to the leadership.
What part of No Deal does Varadkar not understand. If there is No Deal then there will be no customs or single market alignment. He needs to get this through his thick skull and start making some real efforts to help avoid No Deal rather than just repeating the same garbage day in day out.
What part of No Deal does Varadkar not understand. If there is No Deal then there will be no customs or single market alignment. He needs to get this through his thick skull and start making some real efforts to help avoid No Deal rather than just repeating the same garbage day in day out.
If no deal is unsustainable then there will be a deal eventually. The question is on what terms.
Comments
A deft piece of ruthless politics.
As the header suggests, Brexit will not help the distressed areas and sectors, so in time is very likely to be reversed.
He's basically a Kipper who fell out with Farage
"We will seek to negotiate a jobs first Brexit deal and will then ask the public to approve that deal in a referendum."
Labour might possibly win that election, and such a referendum might eventually then take place.
Klobuchar may be as effective though, just in a slightly more low key way.
Alastair is quite right; it is an enormous and costly distraction.
No Brexit at all is the only sensible answer.
Way, way a lot of water yet to pass under the bridge.
Perfectly good point, but firstly, does Labour want to run the risk of being held responsible for 'no deal'; secondly the best weapon for avoiding blame is the use of abstention - which I think may be a major factor; thirdly the atmosphere if this gets to mid/Late March will be very different from now. Party advantage may seem about as important as in 1940 (though no bets there on that!) Fourth: Corbyn is a committed leaver and this should not be underestimated. Fifth, from a north England perspective Labour voters and leave are very much joined at the hip in large numbers. Sixth, I think there are a decent number of Labour MPs who have no intention of trashing the country.
Second voters and the ERG are on a race to the delusional bottom. I originally thought no contest but a late spurt has made it too close to call.
Another option blocked off.
If the Deal still fails many Deal backing MPs will then shift to EUref2 or BINO
Better for jobs than all other Brexits. Don't see why people snigger at it. It means what it says and it says what it means.
2. I don't think the reaction to May's deal getting through because Labour abstains would very different to it getting through because Labour supports. In fact it'd likely be better for May, because nobody would be able to use the "you only got this through with Labour support" line. So I don't think this would help much
3. I don't think so, but really this is just guesswork either way.
4. & 5. No Deal is leaving?
6. Sure, and I think this is the most important factor in Labour possibly voting for the deal. But the actual situation is likely to look more like them sticking their necks out with absolutely no guarantee the vote will pass anyway.
1: there's a strong feeling in the party that we shouldn't be blackmailed into supporting something we think is bad for the country and our voters, and that we can defend that position successfully
2: abstention is pathetic and will (I predict) not be used as the main tactic
3: agree atmosphere will change as the clock ticks awasy - not sure in what direction, though
4: Corbyn is opposed to leaving. He's said so publicly, and privately (to me personally), and he's notorious in pragmatic circles for NOT being willing to say stuff he doesn't mean for the sake of political convenience. The most we can get him to do is not comment (e.g. he's not said anything about Trident for a long time, but I've no doubt he's still against)
5: There's polling data on this - the number are significant but not huge, because although many Labour MPs represent Leave seats, most Labour voters in most Leave seats backed remain.
6: yes, of course. But I think they tend to draw different conclusions from that to yours. tbh there is scope for more than one genuine, patriotic view of all this, and we shouldn't portray each other as reckless arsonists because we disagree.
So it's meaningless drivel.
Thanks. All very good points, though I think my third point has more weight and slightly less guesswork than you reckon. The approach of deadlines has interesting effects.
Let's view it as an opportunity for British innovation.
The Labour position has (at times) been to have all the benefits of the Single Market without actually being a member of it. Which is impossible. You can't be in the club and out of the club at the same time.
And there is zero evidence that this would be acceptable to the 27 - and even if it were, we don't know the cost of that would be.
Re the Cooper amendment there are many voices wanting it limited to three months and of course the EU could say no
The possibility of a referendum has been greatly reduced today just as no deal is almost certainly going to fall.
They are meaningless drivel. In fact almost all the brexit monikers are.
The 'jobs first' brexit is an honourable exception since it does seek to put jobs first.
Whether a Corbyn government, brexit or no brexit, would be good for jobs is a different matter.
Are you a floating voter who would like to vote for Jeremy but are yet to be convinced?
Brexit does not change the forces of globalisation. It was never about the EU. However if Deal and No Deal both cause the predicted damage to the economy the govt has less power to improve things. If we enter the backstop, we will have less influence over key areas of policy than we do today, which no route out.
I hope May said "Here's an idea - I'll take No Deal off the table, when the Trade Union movement takes strike action off the table..."