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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast: Is a no-deal Brexit now the

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Chris said:

    It's beyond me how we ended up sending nearly half the population on three-year residential courses that are of no earthly use to most of them.

    Both my newphews were doing courses that appeared to consist mostly of basic bookkeeping, and both of them dropped out and got jobs instead.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,752
    IanB2 said:

    Chris said:

    It's beyond me how we ended up sending nearly half the population on three-year residential courses that are of no earthly use to most of them.

    Both my newphews were doing courses that appeared to consist mostly of basic bookkeeping, and both of them dropped out and got jobs instead.
    The money would be far better spent on training and education in later life.
  • TheAncientMarinerTheAncientMariner Posts: 227
    edited January 2019

    Who could gave foreseen a few years ago that vacuum cleaners would feature in political propaganda? We are blessed to live in such times.
    In 2014 there was political outrage at the EU reducing the power vacuum cleaners could apply (came into effect in 2017) and then there was Dyson's accusation that European companies were over-estimnating the effectiveness of their vacuum cleaners.

    Vacuum cleaners are old news - and the stories suck.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Excellent podcast

    The most interesting division and born out on PB is the liberal/authoritarian one. Liberals of left and centre are overwhelingly Remain whereas on the right they split evenly. Authoritarians by contrast are ail Leavers. Nothing counter intuitive about that but It does explain why Leaving and Remaining are so visceral.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited January 2019
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Airbus has branded the UK government’s handling of Brexit a “disgrace” and warned the aerospace firm could pull out of the UK if the country crashes out of the EU without a deal.
    In a video message released on Thursday, Tom Enders, the chief executive, warned that if there was a no-deal Brexit, Airbus would have to make “potentially very harmful decisions for the UK”.

    He added: “Please don’t listen to the Brexiteers’ madness which asserts that because have huge plants here we will not move and we will always be here. They are wrong.”

    Not that I don't appreciate the warning in advance now but I'm curious if he managed to make any statements in favour of Ed in GE'15 who didn't want a referendum or Corbyn in GE'17 who didn't want no deal?

    Businesses speaking up now have surely waited too long, any chance they have to turn public opinion is limited. They can pressure politicians but that doesn't require talking in public.

    I just wonder if they are talking in public out of desperation/hope or they have been asked too by politicians they are speaking too.
    Or simply that big business is starting to question the value of the firm promise they were made by government that we would never leave without a deal?
    After what happened with the Brexit vote itself the Prime Minister declaring before the GE that no deal was better than a bad deal should have been a bit of a warning. Big business sat back and let the Tories spin whatever lines they wanted because they thought it suited their purposes.

    Obviously the problem is it isn't their owners(major shareholders generally I guess) who suffer for this.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Re: KLOB et al.

    A good negative strategy during the Potus campaign is dragging up Trumpton’s tweets and comparing him to a child, a baby. Just relentless message discipline about how ridiculous and childish this moron is should be fun. He is very thin skinned.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Southam

    Well, quite.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,289
    edited January 2019
    I'm wondering about advising those who favour a No Deal Brexit about how they could arrange their personal finances and household trading arrangements so they can enjoy a similar experience in their home. I want to be as realistic as possible without playing punitive and being silly.

    It strikes me that the sort of cost and inconvenience impacts you might see from arranging your domestic economics along such lines, are not dissimilar in scale to what the nation will face: I don't want to shirk that there may be little pockets of advantage either:

    A first pitch of some of my ideas:

    - Giving up preferential deals with tie ins: Ask your mortgage provider to cease your special deal and put you onto standard variable instead..Pay the applicable exit and arrangement fees. Same with broadband, TV etc.
    - For gas and electricity, ask for your meters removed and go on pre-pay. As with WTO this is perfectly fine as the government protects you with minimum standards.
    - All deliveries to your door need to be fully checked before entry. If the Amazon driver won't hand around, ignore him and wait for him to leave the parcel with the neighbours or the delivery office. You may need to go to the supermarket instead if you get a shopping delivery. One full trolley a week is your quota but you may grow your own food in the garden.
    - Rather than a long term credit relationship, use payday lenders out of choice. These offer ultimate flexibility of when to pay back and you are again protected by legislation.
    - Avoid getting discounted products, using special offers, tokens or voucher codes. Don't have loyalty relationships that allow you to obtain these.
    - Don't use third party member benefits of any memberships you possess (e.g. AA discounts). Avoid packaged bank accounts even if you use the benefits.
    - If your employer provides any benefits, such as matching a pension above the legal minimum, you must reduce your pension contributions so you don't benefit.
    Etc.

    Thoughts.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Airbus has branded the UK government’s handling of Brexit a “disgrace” and warned the aerospace firm could pull out of the UK if the country crashes out of the EU without a deal.
    In a video message released on Thursday, Tom Enders, the chief executive, warned that if there was a no-deal Brexit, Airbus would have to make “potentially very harmful decisions for the UK”.

    He added: “Please don’t listen to the Brexiteers’ madness which asserts that because have huge plants here we will not move and we will always be here. They are wrong.”

    Not that I don't appreciate the warning in advance now but I'm curious if he managed to make any statements in favour of Ed in GE'15 who didn't want a referendum or Corbyn in GE'17 who didn't want no deal?

    Businesses speaking up now have surely waited too long, any chance they have to turn public opinion is limited. They can pressure politicians but that doesn't require talking in public.

    I just wonder if they are talking in public out of desperation/hope or they have been asked too by politicians they are speaking too.
    Or simply that big business is starting to question the value of the firm promise they were made by government that we would never leave without a deal?
    After what happened with the Brexit vote itself the Prime Minister declaring before the GE that no deal was better than a bad deal should have been a bit of a warning. Big business sat back and let the Tories spin whatever lines they wanted because they thought it suited their purposes.

    Obviously the problem is it isn't their owners(major shareholders generally I guess) who suffer for this.
    To be fair, they did go and knock on government's door and come away with the assurances
  • Roger said:

    Excellent podcast

    The most interesting division and born out on PB is the liberal/authoritarian one. Liberals of left and centre are overwhelingly Remain whereas on the right they split evenly. Authoritarians by contrast are ail Leavers. Nothing counter intuitive about that but It does explain why Leaving and Remaining are so visceral.

    True - leavers want to 'take back control' and pay any economic cost, which ipso facto is authoritarian. Remainers prefer to accept the benefits of the EU customs union and are prepared to accept their inability to control their own destiny as the price.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Pro_Rata said:

    I'm wondering about advising those who favour a No Deal Brexit about how they could arrange their personal finances and household trading arrangements so they can enjoy a similar experience in their home. I want to be as realistic as possible without playing punitive and being silly.

    It strikes me that the sort of cost and inconvenience impacts you might see from arranging your domestic economics along such lines, are not dissimilar in scale to what the nation will face: I don't want to shirk that there may be little pockets of advantage either:

    A first pitch of some of my ideas:

    - Giving up preferential deals with tie ins: Ask your mortgage provider to cease your special deal and put you onto standard variable instead..Pay the applicable exit and arrangement fees. Same with broadband, TV etc.
    - For gas and electricity, ask for your meters removed and go on pre-pay. As with WTO this is perfectly fine as the government protects you with minimum standards.
    - All deliveries to your door need to be fully checked before entry. If the Amazon driver won't hand around, ignore him and wait for him to leave the parcel with the neighbours or the delivery office. You may need to go to the supermarket instead if you get a shopping delivery. One full trolley a week is your quota but you may grow your own food in the garden.
    - Rather than a long term credit relationship, use payday lenders out of choice. These offer ultimate flexibility of when to pay back and you are again protected by legislation.
    - Avoid getting discounted products, using special offers, tokens or voucher codes. Don't have loyalty relationships that allow you to obtain these.
    - Don't use third party member benefits of any memberships you possess (e.g. AA discounts). Avoid packaged bank accounts even if you use the benefits.
    - If your employer provides any benefits, such as matching a pension above the legal minimum, you must reduce your pension contributions so you don't benefit.
    Etc.

    Thoughts.

    Are you feeling Ok?
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006

    HYUFD said:

    Peston reports Local Government by election analysis by Harry Hayfield and internal Tory polling is forecasting a Labour+SNP+LD government in any imminent election with Labour on 254 the SNP 44 and the LDs on 27

    In the 2017 local elections the Conservatives put up a strong performance followed a few weeks later by a poor Conservative performance in the general election.

    Local election results do not convert to general election results so nor do polls.
    They do pick up mood music though. Oppositions often do very well in local government elections, even very poor oppositions. William Hague and IDS had some crackfing results. A good opposition mops up all over the place. 08 and 09 was blisteringly awful for Labour, and this was on top of gains made in the previous cycles of 04 and 05. 12/13/14 was very grim for the conservatives in local government, despite council tax effectively been frozen by government across much of England.

    17 was a cracking council year, 18, expecting an onslaught was essentially same projects national share. I sense that this May will not be too different.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,752
    Pro_Rata said:

    I'm wondering about advising those who favour a No Deal Brexit about how they could arrange their personal finances and household trading arrangements so they can enjoy a similar experience in their home. I want to be as realistic as possible without playing punitive and being silly.

    It strikes me that the sort of cost and inconvenience impacts you might see from arranging your domestic economics along such lines, are not dissimilar in scale to what the nation will face: I don't want to shirk that there may be little pockets of advantage either:

    A first pitch of some of my ideas:

    - Giving up preferential deals with tie ins: Ask your mortgage provider to cease your special deal and put you onto standard variable instead..Pay the applicable exit and arrangement fees. Same with broadband, TV etc.
    - For gas and electricity, ask for your meters removed and go on pre-pay. As with WTO this is perfectly fine as the government protects you with minimum standards.
    - All deliveries to your door need to be fully checked before entry. If the Amazon driver won't hand around, ignore him and wait for him to leave the parcel with the neighbours or the delivery office. You may need to go to the supermarket instead if you get a shopping delivery. One full trolley a week is your quota but you may grow your own food in the garden.
    - Rather than a long term credit relationship, use payday lenders out of choice. These offer ultimate flexibility of when to pay back and you are again protected by legislation.
    - Avoid getting discounted products, using special offers, tokens or voucher codes. Don't have loyalty relationships that allow you to obtain these.
    - Don't use third party member benefits of any memberships you possess (e.g. AA discounts). Avoid packaged bank accounts even if you use the benefits.
    - If your employer provides any benefits, such as matching a pension above the legal minimum, you must reduce your pension contributions so you don't benefit.
    Etc.

    Thoughts.

    Close the doors of your house and nail them shut to give yourself greater control of your environment.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Mr Roger,

    Can you explain why liberals are anti-democratic? They're only keen on it when it supports their views. Otherwise it's called populism?

    Don't they realise subjective judgements (their own) aren't always factual. Still, I suppose they call 'social sciences' science with a straight face too.


  • Roger said:

    Excellent podcast

    The most interesting division and born out on PB is the liberal/authoritarian one. Liberals of left and centre are overwhelingly Remain whereas on the right they split evenly. Authoritarians by contrast are ail Leavers. Nothing counter intuitive about that but It does explain why Leaving and Remaining are so visceral.

    LOL. Once again Roger shows his utter disconnect from the real world. It is the Remainers who are predominantly the authoritarians, wishing for more centralised yet remote authorities to have control over our lives. The EU is, by its very nature, one of the most authoritarian organisations out there. It is no wonder that the man who brought you the Civil Contingencies Act is a big fan.
  • Chris said:

    It's beyond me how we ended up sending nearly half the population on three-year residential courses that are of no earthly use to most of them.

    The cynic might say it was seen as a good way of keeping them off the employment/unemployment numbers for an extra 3 years.

    But whatever the reason, I agree it is a ludicrous situation.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    I'm wondering about advising those who favour a No Deal Brexit about how they could arrange their personal finances and household trading arrangements so they can enjoy a similar experience in their home. I want to be as realistic as possible without playing punitive and being silly.

    It strikes me that the sort of cost and inconvenience impacts you might see from arranging your domestic economics along such lines, are not dissimilar in scale to what the nation will face: I don't want to shirk that there may be little pockets of advantage either:

    A first pitch of some of my ideas:

    - Giving up preferential deals with tie ins: Ask your mortgage provider to cease your special deal and put you onto standard variable instead..Pay the applicable exit and arrangement fees. Same with broadband, TV etc.
    - For gas and electricity, ask for your meters removed and go on pre-pay. As with WTO this is perfectly fine as the government protects you with minimum standards.
    - All deliveries to your door need to be fully checked before entry. If the Amazon driver won't hand around, ignore him and wait for him to leave the parcel with the neighbours or the delivery office. You may need to go to the supermarket instead if you get a shopping delivery. One full trolley a week is your quota but you may grow your own food in the garden.
    - Rather than a long term credit relationship, use payday lenders out of choice. These offer ultimate flexibility of when to pay back and you are again protected by legislation.
    - Avoid getting discounted products, using special offers, tokens or voucher codes. Don't have loyalty relationships that allow you to obtain these.
    - Don't use third party member benefits of any memberships you possess (e.g. AA discounts). Avoid packaged bank accounts even if you use the benefits.
    - If your employer provides any benefits, such as matching a pension above the legal minimum, you must reduce your pension contributions so you don't benefit.
    Etc.

    Thoughts.

    Much simpler.

    Quit your old job you weren't happy at, with the hope of getting a better paid and more enjoyable job afterwards but not having signed a new contract yet.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676

    Roger said:

    Excellent podcast

    The most interesting division and born out on PB is the liberal/authoritarian one. Liberals of left and centre are overwhelingly Remain whereas on the right they split evenly. Authoritarians by contrast are ail Leavers. Nothing counter intuitive about that but It does explain why Leaving and Remaining are so visceral.

    LOL. Once again Roger shows his utter disconnect from the real world. It is the Remainers who are predominantly the authoritarians, wishing for more centralised yet remote authorities to have control over our lives. The EU is, by its very nature, one of the most authoritarian organisations out there. It is no wonder that the man who brought you the Civil Contingencies Act is a big fan.
    Roger is correct.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Who could gave foreseen a few years ago that vacuum cleaners would feature in political propaganda? We are blessed to live in such times.

    https://twitter.com/Pamper48/status/1088358070672068608
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,289
    edited January 2019
    IanB2 said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I'm wondering about advising those who favour a No Deal Brexit about how they could arrange their personal finances and household trading arrangements so they can enjoy a similar experience in their home. I want to be as realistic as possible without playing punitive and being silly.

    It strikes me that the sort of cost and inconvenience impacts you might see from arranging your domestic economics along such lines, are not dissimilar in scale to what the nation will face: I don't want to shirk that there may be little pockets of advantage either:

    A first pitch of some of my ideas:

    - Giving up preferential deals with tie ins: Ask your mortgage provider to cease your special deal and put you onto standard variable instead..Pay the applicable exit and arrangement fees. Same with broadband, TV etc.
    - For gas and electricity, ask for your meters removed and go on pre-pay. As with WTO this is perfectly fine as the government protects you with minimum standards.
    - All deliveries to your door need to be fully checked before entry. If the Amazon driver won't hand around, ignore him and wait for him to leave the parcel with the neighbours or the delivery office. You may need to go to the supermarket instead if you get a shopping delivery. One full trolley a week is your quota but you may grow your own food in the garden.
    - Rather than a long term credit relationship, use payday lenders out of choice. These offer ultimate flexibility of when to pay back and you are again protected by legislation.
    - Avoid getting discounted products, using special offers, tokens or voucher codes. Don't have loyalty relationships that allow you to obtain these.
    - Don't use third party member benefits of any memberships you possess (e.g. AA discounts). Avoid packaged bank accounts even if you use the benefits.
    - If your employer provides any benefits, such as matching a pension above the legal minimum, you must reduce your pension contributions so you don't benefit.
    Etc.

    Thoughts.

    Are you feeling Ok?
    Fine, thanks. A Rata flight of fancy on here is not unknown, but today I'm in earnest about seeking the best and most accessible No Deal metaphor possible and felt it needed to be household based..

    Bev C responded to my No Deal survey alarm yesterday along the lines of 'Let them just see it'. I'm afraid I've not reached such a resignation / acceptance stage yet.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    IanB2 said:

    Airbus has branded the UK government’s handling of Brexit a “disgrace” and warned the aerospace firm could pull out of the UK if the country crashes out of the EU without a deal.
    In a video message released on Thursday, Tom Enders, the chief executive, warned that if there was a no-deal Brexit, Airbus would have to make “potentially very harmful decisions for the UK”.

    He added: “Please don’t listen to the Brexiteers’ madness which asserts that because have huge plants here we will not move and we will always be here. They are wrong.”

    Not that I don't appreciate the warning in advance now but I'm curious if he managed to make any statements in favour of Ed in GE'15 who didn't want a referendum or Corbyn in GE'17 who didn't want no deal?

    Businesses speaking up now have surely waited too long, any chance they have to turn public opinion is limited. They can pressure politicians but that doesn't require talking in public.

    I just wonder if they are talking in public out of desperation/hope or they have been asked too by politicians they are speaking too.
    Airbus is an arm of the French state
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,289

    Pro_Rata said:

    I'm wondering about advising those who favour a No Deal Brexit about how they could arrange their personal finances and household trading arrangements so they can enjoy a similar experience in their home. I want to be as realistic as possible without playing punitive and being silly.

    It strikes me that the sort of cost and inconvenience impacts you might see from arranging your domestic economics along such lines, are not dissimilar in scale to what the nation will face: I don't want to shirk that there may be little pockets of advantage either:

    A first pitch of some of my ideas:

    - Giving up preferential deals with tie ins: Ask your mortgage provider to cease your special deal and put you onto standard variable instead..Pay the applicable exit and arrangement fees. Same with broadband, TV etc.
    - For gas and electricity, ask for your meters removed and go on pre-pay. As with WTO this is perfectly fine as the government protects you with minimum standards.
    - All deliveries to your door need to be fully checked before entry. If the Amazon driver won't hand around, ignore him and wait for him to leave the parcel with the neighbours or the delivery office. You may need to go to the supermarket instead if you get a shopping delivery. One full trolley a week is your quota but you may grow your own food in the garden.
    - Rather than a long term credit relationship, use payday lenders out of choice. These offer ultimate flexibility of when to pay back and you are again protected by legislation.
    - Avoid getting discounted products, using special offers, tokens or voucher codes. Don't have loyalty relationships that allow you to obtain these.
    - Don't use third party member benefits of any memberships you possess (e.g. AA discounts). Avoid packaged bank accounts even if you use the benefits.
    - If your employer provides any benefits, such as matching a pension above the legal minimum, you must reduce your pension contributions so you don't benefit.
    Etc.

    Thoughts.

    Much simpler.

    Quit your old job you weren't happy at, with the hope of getting a better paid and more enjoyable job afterwards but not having signed a new contract yet.
    In a market where it takes 7 years to sign a typical contract, but does allow to do a bit of zero hours in the meantime...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited January 2019
    CD13 said:

    Mr Roger,

    Can you explain why liberals are anti-democratic? They're only keen on it when it supports their views. Otherwise it's called populism?

    Don't they realise subjective judgements (their own) aren't always factual. Still, I suppose they call 'social sciences' science with a straight face too.

    You’re on the wrong board, try the Daily Mail.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Roger said:

    Excellent podcast

    The most interesting division and born out on PB is the liberal/authoritarian one. Liberals of left and centre are overwhelingly Remain whereas on the right they split evenly. Authoritarians by contrast are ail Leavers. Nothing counter intuitive about that but It does explain why Leaving and Remaining are so visceral.

    LOL. Once again Roger shows his utter disconnect from the real world. It is the Remainers who are predominantly the authoritarians, wishing for more centralised yet remote authorities to have control over our lives. The EU is, by its very nature, one of the most authoritarian organisations out there. It is no wonder that the man who brought you the Civil Contingencies Act is a big fan.
    Nonsense. It was and is a mutually agreed set of rules.

    Your revenge fantasy of poor little Britain getting bullied by the nasty big boy EU for the past 40 years may fuel your burning sense of injustice but bears little relation to reality.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,752
    edited January 2019

    Chris said:

    It's beyond me how we ended up sending nearly half the population on three-year residential courses that are of no earthly use to most of them.

    The cynic might say it was seen as a good way of keeping them off the employment/unemployment numbers for an extra 3 years.

    But whatever the reason, I agree it is a ludicrous situation.
    I don't suppose unemployment would be higher, as a percentage, if they were in the jobs market instead of studying. The country would be better off, they would be better off. The only people worse off would be university teaching staff. If we're going to have a job creation scheme for university teaching staff, why not tailor their teaching to people's needs and the requirements of modern society, rather than squandering resources by forcing people to undergo an inappropriate form of higher education?
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    IanB2 said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    I'm wondering about advising those who favour a No Deal Brexit about how they could arrange their personal finances and household trading arrangements so they can enjoy a similar experience in their home. I want to be as realistic as possible without playing punitive and being silly.

    It strikes me that the sort of cost and inconvenience impacts you might see from arranging your domestic economics along such lines, are not dissimilar in scale to what the nation will face: I don't want to shirk that there may be little pockets of advantage either:

    A first pitch of some of my ideas:

    - Giving up preferential deals with tie ins: Ask your mortgage provider to cease your special deal and put you onto standard variable instead..Pay the applicable exit and arrangement fees. Same with broadband, TV etc.
    - For gas and electricity, ask for your meters removed and go on pre-pay. As with WTO this is perfectly fine as the government protects you with minimum standards.
    - All deliveries to your door need to be fully checked before entry. If the Amazon driver won't hand around, ignore him and wait for him to leave the parcel with the neighbours or the delivery office. You may need to go to the supermarket instead if you get a shopping delivery. One full trolley a week is your quota but you may grow your own food in the garden.
    - Rather than a long term credit relationship, use payday lenders out of choice. These offer ultimate flexibility of when to pay back and you are again protected by legislation.
    - Avoid getting discounted products, using special offers, tokens or voucher codes. Don't have loyalty relationships that allow you to obtain these.
    - Don't use third party member benefits of any memberships you possess (e.g. AA discounts). Avoid packaged bank accounts even if you use the benefits.
    - If your employer provides any benefits, such as matching a pension above the legal minimum, you must reduce your pension contributions so you don't benefit.
    Etc.

    Thoughts.

    Are you feeling Ok?
    I think there is merit in looking at a fall back wto as doable, but actually much worse terms than what a bilateral trade agreement gets you.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Roger said:

    Excellent podcast

    The most interesting division and born out on PB is the liberal/authoritarian one. Liberals of left and centre are overwhelingly Remain whereas on the right they split evenly. Authoritarians by contrast are ail Leavers. Nothing counter intuitive about that but It does explain why Leaving and Remaining are so visceral.

    LOL. Once again Roger shows his utter disconnect from the real world. It is the Remainers who are predominantly the authoritarians, wishing for more centralised yet remote authorities to have control over our lives. The EU is, by its very nature, one of the most authoritarian organisations out there. It is no wonder that the man who brought you the Civil Contingencies Act is a big fan.
    “The EU is, by its very nature, one of the most authoritarian organisations out there.”

    Hyperbole much?

    In the *actual* real world, the EU allows us to trade, move, marry, and settle across a continent.

    Whereas the Brexiters want to stop all that.

    Clearly, too, Brexiters tend to come from the more authoritarian spectrum. Support for Brexit is highly correlated with support for capital punishment, for example.

    None so blind as them that won’t see.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Have we got any genuine bitter end no dealers left on here? Have they all converted to May's fucking shit deal?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    Dura_Ace said:

    Have we got any genuine bitter end no dealers left on here? Have they all converted to May's fucking shit deal?

    Philip Thompson favours No Deal over May's deal, and is as it happens, very liberal
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    It's beyond me how we ended up sending nearly half the population on three-year residential courses that are of no earthly use to most of them.

    The cynic might say it was seen as a good way of keeping them off the employment/unemployment numbers for an extra 3 years.

    But whatever the reason, I agree it is a ludicrous situation.
    I don't suppose unemployment would be higher, as a percentage, if they were in the jobs market instead of studying. The country would be better off, they would be better off. The only people worse off would be university teaching staff. If we're going to have a job creation scheme for university teaching staff, why not tailor their teaching to people's needs and the requirements of modern society, rather than squandering resources by forcing people to undergo an inappropriate form of higher education?
    The trouble with these debates is that they treat the HE system as one homogeneous bloc, when it's not. At one end you have Oxbridge and Russell group, research-led, with high number of extremely well paying foreign undergrads (maybe 40% in some cases, I don't have figures to hand), and almost all UK students will leave and get a job. At the other end all sorts of former polys, ex-tech and teaching colleges, former agricultural schools etc, that are now classed as unis. In the pre-92 days these places would be doing all manner of technical training, 2 year degrees, HNDs, pre-entry courses, joint industrial training courses etc etc. Do they still? Some amazing stuff is done at this end, but a lot of seat filling and there are also a lot of problems, no least with the financial future of many of these institutions.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    The disconnect between many Leavers and Remainers is simple.

    Leavers often like the idea of a trading relationship. It has many advantages. That's why the idea of a "common market" or a European Economic Community" was quite popular in the 1970s. It's also why the Remain campaign concentrated on economics and instigated Project Fear.

    They're not so keen on the idea of political union as a massive add-on. This is a political option not a necessity. The UK government can instigate FOM if it wants to but a trading partner doing so makes little sense.

    One of my young nephews in Boston voted Remain (he's young and unlearned) basically because he thinks he can go abroad at the drop of a hat and get a job if he gets bored here. I did suggest Poland, Lithuania or Rumania if he really wanted adventure as they're nearly empty. I doubt if he ever will - he's currently working in Norfolk, trying to grow another finger and felling homesick.


  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,157
    edited January 2019
    The way Brexit is driving business to relocate to the EU and especially Airbus today must be a wake up call to our mps to put ERG back in their box and get a deal or remain, and do it quickly
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,773
    There is certainly a debate to be had over whether the whole 1992 'big bang' conversion of all polys into unis (and removing from local authority control) was, with hindsight, a massive mistake.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    Re the liberal/authoritarian divide, it doesn't take account of the authoritarian liberals, a group that is strongly represented in Parliament.

    They may have liberal beliefs on race, sex, immigration, but favour authoritarian means of implementing them, such as curbs on speech, getting opponents fired from their jobs, or employment quotas.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited January 2019
    Genuine question for the PB financial brains trust.

    If we get a no deal Brexit and our worst fears are realised what exchange rate band with the euro do they see the pound settling at?

    I can't decide whether the drop in rates since 2016 has now largely discounted the effects of Brexit or is there a lot to come.

    Would I be fairly safe to work on the basis of parity with the euro being the worst case scenario? I am stress-testing our finances for possible retirement in a eurozone country!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,502

    The way Brexit is driving business to relocate to the EU and especially Airbus today must be a wake up call to our mps to put ERG back in their box and get a deal or remain, and do it quickly

    Leavers have been talking about 'civil disobedience' if we don't Leave. Any more job losses and it will be difficult for Leave politicians to visit some areas!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. NorthWales, if recent form is a guide, what'll happen is prevarication occurs until most businesses thinking of it relocate, and *then* we end up backing May's daft deal. So, we lose some business *and* end up with her half-baked deal.

    It'd be interesting to know what someone who was both competent and sought to maximise the advantages of leaving, rather than, as she saw it, minimising the cost and maintaining the closest possible links with the EU, would have come up with as a deal.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    sought to maximise the advantages of leaving

    The maximum of zero is zero...
  • Mr. NorthWales, if recent form is a guide, what'll happen is prevarication occurs until most businesses thinking of it relocate, and *then* we end up backing May's daft deal. So, we lose some business *and* end up with her half-baked deal.

    It'd be interesting to know what someone who was both competent and sought to maximise the advantages of leaving, rather than, as she saw it, minimising the cost and maintaining the closest possible links with the EU, would have come up with as a deal.

    Sadly in respect of your second paragraph no such person exists, especially in ERG
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    The way Brexit is driving business to relocate to the EU and especially Airbus today must be a wake up call to our mps to put ERG back in their box and get a deal or remain, and do it quickly

    The Ergonauts won't give a fuck about Airbus. They assume that Brexit will open up new export markets for the De Havilland Comet.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    The way Brexit is driving business to relocate to the EU and especially Airbus today must be a wake up call to our mps to put ERG back in their box and get a deal or remain, and do it quickly

    Leavers have been talking about 'civil disobedience' if we don't Leave. Any more job losses and it will be difficult for Leave politicians to visit some areas!
    Overall, though, employment is very strong, which probably explains why such warnings don't cut through - that and the fact that big business' reputation is in the toilet.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    The way Brexit is driving business to relocate to the EU and especially Airbus today must be a wake up call to our mps to put ERG back in their box and get a deal or remain, and do it quickly

    The Ergonauts won't give a fuck about Airbus. They assume that Brexit will open up new export markets for the De Havilland Comet.
    Or the penny farthing
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Orange is the new tartan?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    Mr. NorthWales, aye, the ERG's approach has been rather counter-productive.

    Mr. P, getting away from ever closer union is a very good thing. And no, I don't think Cameron's declaration was worth any more than Blair's promised CAP reform.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited January 2019
    OllyT said:

    I can't decide whether the drop in rates since 2016 has now largely discounted the effects of Brexit or is there a lot to come.

    Under $1.20 for a messy exit surely? Current rates are assuming a close deal, with a sizeable chance of remain.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    BBC reporting that Alex Salmond has been arrested...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Scott_P said:
    Why? With no traffic moving, should be safer than ever for the little darlings to get to school....

    Oh, you mean they would have to walk? All the way to school? Cuz Mummy can't DRIVE them any more? Oh the horror....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Mr. P, getting away from ever closer union is a very good thing.

    No, it really isn't.

    As we are finding out.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    TudorRose said:

    BBC reporting that Alex Salmond has been arrested...

    Just saw the same...

    what a mess!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,502

    Dura_Ace said:

    The way Brexit is driving business to relocate to the EU and especially Airbus today must be a wake up call to our mps to put ERG back in their box and get a deal or remain, and do it quickly

    The Ergonauts won't give a fuck about Airbus. They assume that Brexit will open up new export markets for the De Havilland Comet.
    Or the penny farthing
    We do seem to be heading for a new Victorian age. Although, as Cmdr (?) Dura Ace will, I'm sure attest, without the 'control of the seas' Navy we had then.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Scott_P said:

    Mr. P, getting away from ever closer union is a very good thing.

    No, it really isn't.

    As we are finding out.
    We'll find out when we leave.

    Find out how much horse shit has been generated. And by whom.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    TudorRose said:

    BBC reporting that Alex Salmond has been arrested...

    Just saw the same...

    what a mess!
    Bye Eck!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    TudorRose said:

    BBC reporting that Alex Salmond has been arrested...

    Not sure the world has enough popcorn for this ..
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited January 2019

    We'll find out when we leave.

    Find out how much horse shit has been generated. And by whom.

    Business is already leaving.

    That already tells us how much crap the Brexiteers were peddling.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:

    Not sure the world has enough popcorn for this ..

    Tomorrow would have been better, symbolically...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    It'd be interesting to know what someone who was both competent and sought to maximise the advantages of leaving,

    The problem with that is that there are none.
  • dotsdots Posts: 615
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    AndyJS said:
    If Maduro is no longer President then he has no authority to expel the diplomats.

    Given that Maduro only expelled the diplomats after the US recognised Guaido as interim President it would be extremely bizarre to say the diplomats must leave because President Maduro has ordered it.
    It should be pointed out that the EU does not recognise Maduro as president, either.
    There is widespread international agreement (which includes many South American countries) that Guaidó won the election and the results were fixed.

    I know nothing except what Wikipedia tells me but he doesn't appear to have run in the presidential election at all???
    Yes, I thought most of the opposition boycotted it and it was more about being in charge of the congress which Maduro sidelined and created a new puppet body to replace because he lost control of it?
    Yup, I've now spent a few more minutes on Wikipedia and become a Venezuela expert, and I can confirm that this is correct.
    I've just edited Wikipedia, so you are now - sadly - wrong
    Is there no one is there nothing we can trust?

    Why don’t Davos do it in the summer?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,621
    Sterling very strong this morning.
    Financial markets anticipating a very soft BINO or none at all?
  • Dura_Ace said:

    The way Brexit is driving business to relocate to the EU and especially Airbus today must be a wake up call to our mps to put ERG back in their box and get a deal or remain, and do it quickly

    The Ergonauts won't give a fuck about Airbus. They assume that Brexit will open up new export markets for the De Havilland Comet.
    Or the penny farthing
    We do seem to be heading for a new Victorian age. Although, as Cmdr (?) Dura Ace will, I'm sure attest, without the 'control of the seas' Navy we had then.
    It is becoming very stark and our politicians can only say what they do not want rather than making a decision - deal or remain
  • So we have a Brexit supporting Tory MEP advocating nationalisation, these extremists are economic arsonists.

    https://twitter.com/rbrharrison/status/1088370296221036544?s=21
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Not sure the world has enough popcorn for this ..

    Tomorrow would have been better, symbolically...
    This is why A50 should not be extended - Brexit hogging the news from the fun stuff..
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876
    Scott_P said:

    We'll find out when we leave.

    Find out how much horse shit has been generated. And by whom.

    Business is already leaving.

    That already tells us how much crap the Brexiteers were peddling.
    Record employment.
    Record level of economically active adults.
    Record vacancies.
  • Barnesian said:

    Sterling very strong this morning.
    Financial markets anticipating a very soft BINO or none at all?

    TM deal is there now, the rest is delay and uncertainty
  • DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    We'll find out when we leave.

    Find out how much horse shit has been generated. And by whom.

    Business is already leaving.

    That already tells us how much crap the Brexiteers were peddling.
    Record employment.
    Record level of economically active adults.
    Record vacancies.
    Do you think those records will continue after sustained No Deal?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    The way Brexit is driving business to relocate to the EU and especially Airbus today must be a wake up call to our mps to put ERG back in their box and get a deal or remain, and do it quickly

    Looking on the bright side, we'd been talking as if leaving the EU was taking away opportunities for young British people to travel, but if all the British companies are pissing off to various parts of the continent there should be a lot of opportunities to get hired by these British-run or ex-British-run businesses then move to where they are.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,752
    OllyT said:

    Genuine question for the PB financial brains trust.

    If we get a no deal Brexit and our worst fears are realised what exchange rate band with the euro do they see the pound settling at?

    I can't decide whether the drop in rates since 2016 has now largely discounted the effects of Brexit or is there a lot to come.

    Would I be fairly safe to work on the basis of parity with the euro being the worst case scenario? I am stress-testing our finances for possible retirement in a eurozone country!

    Surely the current exchange rate must be a weighted average of the No Deal rate and the Deal/Remain rate. The betting markets at least are implying a low probability of No Deal. So I don't think you can assume that the current rate has already discounted the possibility of No Deal.

    The Bank of England reportedly said in November the pound could lose a quarter of its value in the event of a "disorderly" Brexit. Exchange rates then weren't very different from now.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    We'll find out when we leave.

    Find out how much horse shit has been generated. And by whom.

    Business is already leaving.

    That already tells us how much crap the Brexiteers were peddling.
    Record employment.
    Record level of economically active adults.
    Record vacancies.
    And the most recent data shows foreign direct investment up on 2016 levels...
  • DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    We'll find out when we leave.

    Find out how much horse shit has been generated. And by whom.

    Business is already leaving.

    That already tells us how much crap the Brexiteers were peddling.
    Record employment.
    Record level of economically active adults.
    Record vacancies.

    Low productivity has its upsides. However, this should worry all of us:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46646900

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Scott_P said:
    Usual sensationalist unionist press, he may have been charged with an offence but I seriously doubt "Arrested". He will not be sitting in a cell.
    What shite reporting.
  • Scott_P said:

    We'll find out when we leave.

    Find out how much horse shit has been generated. And by whom.

    Business is already leaving.

    That already tells us how much crap the Brexiteers were peddling.
    Yeah right business is already leaving ...

    Meanwhile back in the real world:
    1. Britain is growing faster than any other G7 European nation.
    2. Britain's employment rate is at its highest ever record.
    3. Average wages are growing considerably faster now than inflation.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876
    According to the BBC Salmond has been charged with an offence or offences and a report has been sent to the Procurator Fiscal.

    I can't believe that in such a sensitive case the Fiscal and quite possibly the Home AD or Sol Gen would not have been involved in the decision to charge. After the fiasco of the judicial review they would want to ensure that there was at the least a sufficiency of evidence.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    Chris said:

    OllyT said:

    Genuine question for the PB financial brains trust.

    If we get a no deal Brexit and our worst fears are realised what exchange rate band with the euro do they see the pound settling at?

    I can't decide whether the drop in rates since 2016 has now largely discounted the effects of Brexit or is there a lot to come.

    Would I be fairly safe to work on the basis of parity with the euro being the worst case scenario? I am stress-testing our finances for possible retirement in a eurozone country!

    Surely the current exchange rate must be a weighted average of the No Deal rate and the Deal/Remain rate. The betting markets at least are implying a low probability of No Deal. So I don't think you can assume that the current rate has already discounted the possibility of No Deal.

    The Bank of England reportedly said in November the pound could lose a quarter of its value in the event of a "disorderly" Brexit. Exchange rates then weren't very different from now.
    And we know from the turmoil on the night of the referendum result how bad the markets are at reading the political pulse. The only poorer reader of it is... well, probably our Prime Minister.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,285

    Roger said:

    Excellent podcast

    The most interesting division and born out on PB is the liberal/authoritarian one. Liberals of left and centre are overwhelingly Remain whereas on the right they split evenly. Authoritarians by contrast are ail Leavers. Nothing counter intuitive about that but It does explain why Leaving and Remaining are so visceral.

    LOL. Once again Roger shows his utter disconnect from the real world. It is the Remainers who are predominantly the authoritarians, wishing for more centralised yet remote authorities to have control over our lives. The EU is, by its very nature, one of the most authoritarian organisations out there. It is no wonder that the man who brought you the Civil Contingencies Act is a big fan.
    Unkind souls would say that you each represent different kinds of disconnect from the 'real world'.
  • malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:
    Usual sensationalist unionist press, he may have been charged with an offence but I seriously doubt "Arrested". He will not be sitting in a cell.
    What shite reporting.
    I seriously would be surprised if he hasn't been arrested if the reports are true. Even if released on bail or otherwise suspects still get arrested and then charged.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    edited January 2019
    DavidL said:

    According to the BBC Salmond has been charged with an offence or offences and a report has been sent to the Procurator Fiscal.

    I can't believe that in such a sensitive case the Fiscal and quite possibly the Home AD or Sol Gen would not have been involved in the decision to charge. After the fiasco of the judicial review they would want to ensure that there was at the least a sufficiency of evidence.

    We will see when it comes out in the wash. Given the sensationalism by unionist press up till now it will be a debacle.
    May help Theresa get off the front pages.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Alex!!!!!!!!!!!! :open_mouth::open_mouth::open_mouth:
  • DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    We'll find out when we leave.

    Find out how much horse shit has been generated. And by whom.

    Business is already leaving.

    That already tells us how much crap the Brexiteers were peddling.
    Record employment.
    Record level of economically active adults.
    Record vacancies.
    Do you think those records will continue after sustained No Deal?
    Yes.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,621
    OllyT said:

    Genuine question for the PB financial brains trust.

    If we get a no deal Brexit and our worst fears are realised what exchange rate band with the euro do they see the pound settling at?

    I can't decide whether the drop in rates since 2016 has now largely discounted the effects of Brexit or is there a lot to come.

    Would I be fairly safe to work on the basis of parity with the euro being the worst case scenario? I am stress-testing our finances for possible retirement in a eurozone country!

    I'm buying a few Euros this morning at > €1.15. I'm waiting a little while longer before I buy overseas equities in bulk. I anticipate sterling going to €1.20 and $1.40 in a couple of month's time.

    On the downside I think you would be fairly safe to work on the basis of parity with the euro being the worst case scenario, though there could be some very short term blips worse than that.

    PS Please understand that I'm guessing! If I were good at this I'd be a very wealthy currency trader.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    GIN1138 said:

    Alex!!!!!!!!!!!! :open_mouth::open_mouth::open_mouth:

    Have faith Gin, no need for smelling salts just yet.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:
    Usual sensationalist unionist press, he may have been charged with an offence but I seriously doubt "Arrested". He will not be sitting in a cell.
    What shite reporting.
    "STV News understands he is not in custody following his arrest on Wednesday.

    A Police Scotland spokesman said: "We can confirm a 64-year-old man has been arrested and charged and a report has been sent to the procurator fiscal.""
  • Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    Excellent podcast

    The most interesting division and born out on PB is the liberal/authoritarian one. Liberals of left and centre are overwhelingly Remain whereas on the right they split evenly. Authoritarians by contrast are ail Leavers. Nothing counter intuitive about that but It does explain why Leaving and Remaining are so visceral.

    LOL. Once again Roger shows his utter disconnect from the real world. It is the Remainers who are predominantly the authoritarians, wishing for more centralised yet remote authorities to have control over our lives. The EU is, by its very nature, one of the most authoritarian organisations out there. It is no wonder that the man who brought you the Civil Contingencies Act is a big fan.
    Unkind souls would say that you each represent different kinds of disconnect from the 'real world'.
    Not really. I freely admit on here that my ideals are not shared by most people and are only ever aspirations. Roger just doesn't understand how the world works and, like many others of an authoritarian bent, thinks he can impose his views and make people change.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    We'll find out when we leave.

    Find out how much horse shit has been generated. And by whom.

    Business is already leaving.

    That already tells us how much crap the Brexiteers were peddling.
    Record employment.
    Record level of economically active adults.
    Record vacancies.

    Low productivity has its upsides. However, this should worry all of us:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46646900

    I don't think that there is any doubt that the uncertainty caused by Brexit has caused at least a pause in investment and the sooner things are resolved the better. That is particularly so given the fragile state of the EZ and the negative trade winds from China and the USA. It is one of the reasons that I would be opposed to any continuation of the Article 50 period for anything other than the most technical of reasons where everyone knew where they stood. The uncertainty is worse than almost any possible outcome because you cannot plan.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677



    We do seem to be heading for a new Victorian age. Although, as Cmdr (?) Dura Ace will, I'm sure attest, without the 'control of the seas' Navy we had then.

    The end of the Napoleonic Wars was the peak of British naval power due to the "Two Power Doctrine" ie the RN was expected to surpass the next two largest navies combined.

    We've still for a credible blue water navy of which we can be proud but much of the institutionalised aggression that was a core RN value has gone. In Nelson's navy you could be court martialled for losing a ship but you'd be hung on the spot for choosing not to engage the enemy. I watched that Britain's Biggest Warship thing about QNLZ and all standards of military discipline and dress standard seem to have been abandoned. The atmosphere was more like a floating call centre than a warship.

    (NB every old Jack since the RN was founded in the 16th C. has uttered a similar jeremiad through his white beard.)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    Usual sensationalist unionist press, he may have been charged with an offence but I seriously doubt "Arrested". He will not be sitting in a cell.
    What shite reporting.

    https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1088367062962094080
  • On a very different note, just had a fascinating chat with our mandarin-speaking, HK-based China Editor who was up in Beijing last week. She said that it is very noticeable how many more billboards there are extolling the Communist party and President Xi there are up in the city. She said it was like going back in time.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pro_Rata said:

    I'm wondering about advising those who favour a No Deal Brexit about how they could arrange their personal finances and household trading arrangements so they can enjoy a similar experience in their home. I want to be as realistic as possible without playing punitive and being silly.

    It strikes me that the sort of cost and inconvenience impacts you might see from arranging your domestic economics along such lines, are not dissimilar in scale to what the nation will face: I don't want to shirk that there may be little pockets of advantage either:

    A first pitch of some of my ideas:

    - Giving up preferential deals with tie ins: Ask your mortgage provider to cease your special deal and put you onto standard variable instead..Pay the applicable exit and arrangement fees. Same with broadband, TV etc.
    - For gas and electricity, ask for your meters removed and go on pre-pay. As with WTO this is perfectly fine as the government protects you with minimum standards.
    - All deliveries to your door need to be fully checked before entry. If the Amazon driver won't hand around, ignore him and wait for him to leave the parcel with the neighbours or the delivery office. You may need to go to the supermarket instead if you get a shopping delivery. One full trolley a week is your quota but you may grow your own food in the garden.
    - Rather than a long term credit relationship, use payday lenders out of choice. These offer ultimate flexibility of when to pay back and you are again protected by legislation.
    - Avoid getting discounted products, using special offers, tokens or voucher codes. Don't have loyalty relationships that allow you to obtain these.
    - Don't use third party member benefits of any memberships you possess (e.g. AA discounts). Avoid packaged bank accounts even if you use the benefits.
    - If your employer provides any benefits, such as matching a pension above the legal minimum, you must reduce your pension contributions so you don't benefit.
    Etc.

    Thoughts.

    Question not thought: is this exercise the best use of your time?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    From the Zoomers favourite journalist...

    https://twitter.com/holyroodmandy/status/1088368572894715905
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,876
    edited January 2019
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:
    Usual sensationalist unionist press, he may have been charged with an offence but I seriously doubt "Arrested". He will not be sitting in a cell.
    What shite reporting.
    The BBC speculates that he might appear in court later today. That would mean that he was appearing from custody or possibly an undertaking to appear. Neither seem remotely likely to me on what we know to date. I think the BBC are probably wrong about this.

    Edit, I see the BBC have dropped that suggestion now.
  • TOPPING said:

    Roger said:

    Excellent podcast

    The most interesting division and born out on PB is the liberal/authoritarian one. Liberals of left and centre are overwhelingly Remain whereas on the right they split evenly. Authoritarians by contrast are ail Leavers. Nothing counter intuitive about that but It does explain why Leaving and Remaining are so visceral.

    LOL. Once again Roger shows his utter disconnect from the real world. It is the Remainers who are predominantly the authoritarians, wishing for more centralised yet remote authorities to have control over our lives. The EU is, by its very nature, one of the most authoritarian organisations out there. It is no wonder that the man who brought you the Civil Contingencies Act is a big fan.
    Nonsense. It was and is a mutually agreed set of rules.

    Your revenge fantasy of poor little Britain getting bullied by the nasty big boy EU for the past 40 years may fuel your burning sense of injustice but bears little relation to reality.
    It is far closer to reality than your views of the EU as in any way reformable
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Pro_Rata said:

    I'm wondering about advising those who favour a No Deal Brexit about how they could arrange their personal finances and household trading arrangements so they can enjoy a similar experience in their home. I want to be as realistic as possible without playing punitive and being silly.

    It strikes me that the sort of cost and inconvenience impacts you might see from arranging your domestic economics along such lines, are not dissimilar in scale to what the nation will face: I don't want to shirk that there may be little pockets of advantage either:

    A first pitch of some of my ideas:

    - Giving up preferential deals with tie ins: Ask your mortgage provider to cease your special deal and put you onto standard variable instead..Pay the applicable exit and arrangement fees. Same with broadband, TV etc.
    - For gas and electricity, ask for your meters removed and go on pre-pay. As with WTO this is perfectly fine as the government protects you with minimum standards.
    - All deliveries to your door need to be fully checked before entry. If the Amazon driver won't hand around, ignore him and wait for him to leave the parcel with the neighbours or the delivery office. You may need to go to the supermarket instead if you get a shopping delivery. One full trolley a week is your quota but you may grow your own food in the garden.
    - Rather than a long term credit relationship, use payday lenders out of choice. These offer ultimate flexibility of when to pay back and you are again protected by legislation.
    - Avoid getting discounted products, using special offers, tokens or voucher codes. Don't have loyalty relationships that allow you to obtain these.
    - Don't use third party member benefits of any memberships you possess (e.g. AA discounts). Avoid packaged bank accounts even if you use the benefits.
    - If your employer provides any benefits, such as matching a pension above the legal minimum, you must reduce your pension contributions so you don't benefit.
    Etc.

    Thoughts.

    Much simpler.

    Quit your old job you weren't happy at, with the hope of getting a better paid and more enjoyable job afterwards but not having signed a new contract yet.
    If your employer prevented you seeking a new job while working for them you might have to
This discussion has been closed.