Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New polling finds that leaving the EU with the deal is the lea

13

Comments

  • kle4 said:

    What will England do when jimmy Anderson’s body finally packs in?

    That's like asking what will happen when Her Majesty leaves us, you're not supposed to ask.
    The alternatives are so shit, Jimmy could end up being in the team as long as her maj has been on the throne.
  • Eeek! I clicked on that and got a Norton Security (which i don't have installed) '5 Virus' warning. Site must be infected with malware. Best avoided.
    I get a similar warning on my MacBook.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    IanB2 said:

    Fears are growing internationally that a no-deal Brexit poses a threat to the stability of the global economy, the head of Britain’s leading business body has warned. Carolyn Fairbairn, director-general of the CBI, said the failure to sort out Britain’s departure from the European Union was damaging Britain’s brand abroad and had joined a list of systemic risks to the world economy.

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/oecd-chief-says-wto-brexit-will-seamless-low-cost/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    IanB2 said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    However we might leave, it is becoming increasingly clear that we aren't ready and cannot be made ready by the end of March. Postponement is inevitable. .
    Delay, sure, but after decision. Not remain by the back door kicking into the long grass that parliament is seeking. We should remain, but they should not trick people into it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,738
    Floater said:

    Eeek! I clicked on that and got a Norton Security (which i don't have installed) '5 Virus' warning. Site must be infected with malware. Best avoided.
    Nice try - nothing wrong with the link according to my software
    I hadn't clicked on it but I get a warning too...
  • The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I've been there for two years.

    Only my concern for my fellow Brits wants me to stop it happening.
    Your Fellow Brits voted for it. F*ck 'em.
    I don't blame them.

    I blame the Leave politicians that promised them at Leaving would be easy, that we held all the aces, and there'd be nothing but sunlit uplands.

    Who do you blame, the scam artist(s) or the ones who got scammed?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    kle4 said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I've been there for two years.

    Only my concern for my fellow Brits wants me to stop it happening.
    Your Fellow Brits voted for it. F*ck 'em.
    Funny, we keep being told no one knew what they voted for.
    Let them lash out in all directions if it makes them feel better
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    edited January 2019
    I’d be interested in exactly the same polling on national leaders
  • Jimmy strikes yet again...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So the government and its supporters are still holding the nation to ransom with threats of no deal.

    Nothing
    Has
    Changed.

    Or No Dealers to ransom with threats of remain
    May is perpetually disappointing. Rather than trying to find a compromise she has spent the week spinning against others trying to undermine them to force her deal.


    May has got the only compromise the EU will give and which keeps enough Brexiteers on board, it is People's Vote diehard Remainers and 'Leave means Leave' diehard Leavers refusing to compromise
    Are you arguing that the result in parliament was close enough for there to be another vote?
    Are you arguing there is a closer alternative proposal in Parliament?
    Closer than the biggest defeat in history? Yes.
    You just can't tell us what it is.....
    If May whipped any of alternatives it would beat the deal.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124

    kle4 said:

    What will England do when jimmy Anderson’s body finally packs in?

    That's like asking what will happen when Her Majesty leaves us, you're not supposed to ask.
    The alternatives are so shit, Jimmy could end up being in the team as long as her maj has been on the throne.
    Anderson currently 23-12-32-4.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I've been there for two years.

    Only my concern for my fellow Brits wants me to stop it happening.
    Your Fellow Brits voted for it. F*ck 'em.
    I don't blame them.

    I blame the Leave politicians that promised them at Leaving would be easy, that we held all the aces, and there'd be nothing but sunlit uplands.

    Who do you blame, the scam artist(s) or the ones who got scammed?
    Apparently it’s now ok to vote twice. So don’t worry.
  • dotsdots Posts: 615

    Also (FPT): Here's the data split by 2016 vote. The deal is acceptable to an absolute majority of Leavers, and also a majority of Remainers (once you remove DKs). The No Deal / No Brexit options are predictably polarising.

    To be fair, acceptability is not quite the same as approval, but the Deal looks like the only option for moving on.

    https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/1088097071863947264

    I’m sorry, Tissue, OGH. All lovers of WA and FA. Being extremely on topic here, unless that deal changes quite a lot in a short space of time, in a way appearing completely unlikely, the brexiteers are not voting for it. The parliamentary Labour Party will have to disintegrate with enough voting for it, and that’s not likely either.

    The only definition of leave left in play now is the one between Bernard Jenkins ears, because that is the law of the land, and it should be clear to all of us nothing can stop it. a law created by executive and parliament working in harmony. On 29th of March UK voluntarily rips up its frictionless trade deal with the EU, and the only means of stopping it is the revoke button on the desk of the Prime Minister. Votes won on motions in parliament are meaningless because they don’t carry the power.

    I See Theresa May as completely honest and completely right, it’s impossible to hit that button. The politics of revoke is that our country is tribally divided on this now, that revoke button can’t be hit in the next six months, in fact years or even decades till we come back together in agreement as a people (minus Scotland who with hard brexit will be gone by then) to the extent that button can be hit. The politics just doesn’t allow it. Opposition voices saying she can do it either disingenuous or live in La la land. Any voice saying parliament can stop it equally in la la land.

    It is happening folks, the disorderly brexit with everyone blaming each other.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,694
    edited January 2019

    Jimmy strikes yet again...

    I tell who is man of the match.

    That chap that's been dressed like Charlie Chaplin, replete with morning suit and waistcoat, all day.

    In that heat!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Unicorn hunting remains as popular an activity as ever on pb. If only the EU will drop one of its constant demands since the outset on the offchance that a deal might just about be sellable to a bunch of wingnuts who are only lightly tethered to reality, it'll all be done and dusted.

    That's a bit harsh, Alistair. I would have said Grieve was fairly solidly anchored in reality. Corbyn, of course, is a different matter but we all know he'll vote for No Deal anyway.
    Corbyn has now said No Deal must be ruled out and will consider EUref2 if he cannot get through his plans for a general election or permanent Customs Union
    Corbyn also said he didn't know Paul Eisen, didn't have a seat on a train, had a fully costed manifesto and condemned violence by all sides in Venezuela and Iran.

    I judge him by his deeds, not his words. I still say he is aiming for no deal.
    Whereas those who judge him a Commie Spy a Putin Puppet a terrorist sympathiser and an Anti Semite judge him neither on his words or deeds. They just hope their pathetic smears work better than at GE 2017.

    IMO they would be better off developing some actual policies.

    Except perhaps they are Intellectually Bankrupt and dont have an answer to Corbyns.

    https://twitter.com/the_awakend/status/1029685536951345152

    Explain why Labour let so many of those suspended back in on the quiet.

    His own words and actions speak louder than anything you can offer to try and deflect the criticism


    Oh - this is another lovely Labour member

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/23/labour-candidate-tower-hamlets-fan-banned-bin-laden-hate-preacher/

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,738
    dots said:

    It is happening folks, the disorderly brexit with everyone blaming each other.

    Theresa May will need to be our Gorbachev. If we do get a no deal Brexit, we may be looking at a top-down dissolution of the UK.
  • Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Unicorn hunting remains as popular an activity as ever on pb. If only the EU will drop one of its constant demands since the outset on the offchance that a deal might just about be sellable to a bunch of wingnuts who are only lightly tethered to reality, it'll all be done and dusted.

    That's a bit harsh, Alistair. I would have said Grieve was fairly solidly anchored in reality. Corbyn, of course, is a different matter but we all know he'll vote for No Deal anyway.
    Corbyn has now said No Deal must be ruled out and will consider EUref2 if he cannot get through his plans for a general election or permanent Customs Union
    Corbyn also said he didn't know Paul Eisen, didn't have a seat on a train, had a fully costed manifesto and condemned violence by all sides in Venezuela and Iran.

    I judge him by his deeds, not his words. I still say he is aiming for no deal.
    Whereas those who judge him a Commie Spy a Putin Puppet a terrorist sympathiser and an Anti Semite judge him neither on his words or deeds. They just hope their pathetic smears work better than at GE 2017.

    IMO they would be better off developing some actual policies.

    Except perhaps they are Intellectually Bankrupt and dont have an answer to Corbyns.

    https://twitter.com/the_awakend/status/1029685536951345152

    Explain why Labour let so many of those suspended back in on the quiet.

    His own words and actions speak louder than anything you can offer to try and deflect the criticism


    Oh - this is another lovely Labour member

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/23/labour-candidate-tower-hamlets-fan-banned-bin-laden-hate-preacher/

    Yet the other night you said you would vote for a party led by someone who has uttered a well known anti-Semitic trope, someone who was condemned by many Jewish organisations.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    Mortimer said:

    And you’re posting this to highlight that the EU have a weakness in this area? Because that’s what it shows.
    Seems like evidence Hannan knows what he's talking about regarding potential trade opportunities and deals with nations like India.
    Hannan is a proven charlatan with no real interest in trade policy whatsoever.
    Rubbish. Hannan is nothing of the kind. Trade is about the only thing Hannan is genuinely passionate about and he rightly sees the EU as increasingly protectionist.
    The deleted tweet claims we pay a 32% tariff on wine from Chile. Hannan has no passion for trade; it’s purely a prop for his 19th century revivalist act.

    https://twitter.com/albertonardelli/status/785601063294476292?s=21
    Hardly conclusive or definitive.
    It was just the first example that came to mind. Here’s another one: he falsely claims Canadian ice wine is prohibited in the EU.

    image
    He obviously doesn't ever shop in Lidl. Bought some of this for Christmas and very delicious it was too.

    https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/Offers.htm?articleId=17771
    How does that compare to the £14.99 Aldi version (for which we made a one off trip to purchase a few bottles back in November).

    Only asking as lidl will be a shorter walk when it opens later this year
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Drutt said:

    kle4 said:

    What will England do when jimmy Anderson’s body finally packs in?

    That's like asking what will happen when Her Majesty leaves us, you're not supposed to ask.
    The alternatives are so shit, Jimmy could end up being in the team as long as her maj has been on the throne.
    Anderson currently 23-12-32-4.
    I knew he was knocking on a bit, but I thought he was more like 38.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    edited January 2019
    dots said:

    Also (FPT): Here's the data split by 2016 vote. The deal is acceptable to an absolute majority of Leavers, and also a majority of Remainers (once you remove DKs). The No Deal / No Brexit options are predictably polarising.

    To be fair, acceptability is not quite the same as approval, but the Deal looks like the only option for moving on.

    https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/1088097071863947264

    I’m sorry, Tissue, OGH. All lovers of WA and FA. Being extremely on topic here, unless that deal changes quite a lot in a short space of time, in a way appearing completely unlikely, the brexiteers are not voting for it. The parliamentary Labour Party will have to disintegrate with enough voting for it, and that’s not likely either.

    The only definition of leave left in play now is the one between Bernard Jenkins ears, because that is the law of the land, and it should be clear to all of us nothing can stop it. a law created by executive and parliament working in harmony. On 29th of March UK voluntarily rips up its frictionless trade deal with the EU, and the only means of stopping it is the revoke button on the desk of the Prime Minister. Votes won on motions in parliament are meaningless because they don’t carry the power.

    I See Theresa May as completely honest and completely right, it’s impossible to hit that button. The politics of revoke is that our country is tribally divided on this now, that revoke button can’t be hit in the next six months, in fact years or even decades till we come back together in agreement as a people (minus Scotland who with hard brexit will be gone by then) to the extent that button can be hit. The politics just doesn’t allow it. Opposition voices saying she can do it either disingenuous or live in La la land. Any voice saying parliament can stop it equally in la la land.

    It is happening folks, the disorderly brexit with everyone blaming each other.
    I fear you may be right. The only question now is when will we get the first Leaver blaming WTO rules for our suffering and saying we should have gone for an even 'cleaner' break.
  • dotsdots Posts: 615

    Floater said:

    Eeek! I clicked on that and got a Norton Security (which i don't have installed) '5 Virus' warning. Site must be infected with malware. Best avoided.
    Nice try - nothing wrong with the link according to my software
    I hadn't clicked on it but I get a warning too...
    I got a box saying saying ‘warning. McVey Virus. Volunteer for No Deal contingency exercise now for unlock code’. 😐
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So the government and its supporters are still holding the nation to ransom with threats of no deal.

    Nothing
    Has
    Changed.

    Or No Dealers to ransom with threats of remain
    May is perpetually disappointing. Rather than trying to find a compromise she has spent the week spinning against others trying to undermine them to force her deal.


    May has got the only compromise the EU will give and which keeps enough Brexiteers on board, it is People's Vote diehard Remainers and 'Leave means Leave' diehard Leavers refusing to compromise
    Are you arguing that the result in parliament was close enough for there to be another vote?
    Are you arguing there is a closer alternative proposal in Parliament?
    Closer than the biggest defeat in history? Yes.
    You just can't tell us what it is.....
    If May whipped any of alternatives it would beat the deal.
    That's a planet-sized if. Ain't happening.So you are no further forward....
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,604
    It seems to me there are now only two likely possibilities for the state of play on 29th March: either TMs deal (modified a bit?) will have passed and we shall have left, or we will be in the position where TMs deal (modified a bit?) is clearly in process but a delay has been permitted to get the practicalities done. Any takers?
  • Floater said:

    Eeek! I clicked on that and got a Norton Security (which i don't have installed) '5 Virus' warning. Site must be infected with malware. Best avoided.
    Nice try - nothing wrong with the link according to my software
    This is the link to avoid.

    https://bitly.com/a/warning?hash=2S8iRvM&url=http://maielk.trade/?9642

    Nothing to do with your installed software - the site is trying to dupe you into clicking on a button that will doubtless install all sorts of nasties.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2019
    "The global tech war threatens the 'Westphalian order' and liberal democracy

    Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in Davos"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/01/23/global-tech-war-threatens-westphalian-order-liberal-democracy/
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    algarkirk said:

    It seems to me there are now only two likely possibilities for the state of play on 29th March: either TMs deal (modified a bit?) will have passed and we shall have left, or we will be in the position where TMs deal (modified a bit?) is clearly in process but a delay has been permitted to get the practicalities done. Any takers?

    I just don’t see May’s deal passing. WTO terms are also unlikely to be workable as companies panic (note I don’t care I sell software in mainly dollars and euros so my income will remain consistent) so the question really is who blinks first
  • dotsdots Posts: 615
    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fears are growing internationally that a no-deal Brexit poses a threat to the stability of the global economy, the head of Britain’s leading business body has warned. Carolyn Fairbairn, director-general of the CBI, said the failure to sort out Britain’s departure from the European Union was damaging Britain’s brand abroad and had joined a list of systemic risks to the world economy.

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/oecd-chief-says-wto-brexit-will-seamless-low-cost/
    I started stockpiling the breathers, blood thinners and other drugs my family need last week, if any family is going to miss out it will be those who fail to realise we rip up the frictionless trade deal with EU on 29 March, it can’t be stopped, it’s the law, and a law the divided politics can’t stop.

    I think the chaos will last more than six months, but I don’t think the chaos and pain of disorderly exit will define Brexit. there’s a lot of investment into UK not just European but further afield, and a lot of good paying jobs based on that investment. When we rip up frictionless trade with EU how much of that investment depended on being able to exploit the frictionless trade? What can be put in place to mitigate that? It is that equation in coming years that will define Brexit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So the government and its supporters are still holding the nation to ransom with threats of no deal.

    Nothing
    Has
    Changed.

    Or No Dealers to ransom with threats of remain
    May is perpetually disappointing. Rather than trying to find a compromise she has spent the week spinning against others trying to undermine them to force her deal.


    May has got the only compromise the EU will give and which keeps enough Brexiteers on board, it is People's Vote diehard Remainers and 'Leave means Leave' diehard Leavers refusing to compromise
    Are you arguing that the result in parliament was close enough for there to be another vote?
    Are you arguing there is a closer alternative proposal in Parliament?
    Closer than the biggest defeat in history? Yes.
    You just can't tell us what it is.....
    If May whipped any of alternatives it would beat the deal.
    And she should. I am astounded that no matter how many times the EU confirms that she was right to say they won't reopen the deal, she keeps acting like a few people softening on the deal sans a major part of it, is progress.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So the government and its supporters are still holding the nation to ransom with threats of no deal.

    Nothing
    Has
    Changed.

    Or No Dealers to ransom with threats of remain
    May is perpetually disappointing. Rather than trying to find a compromise she has spent the week spinning against others trying to undermine them to force her deal.


    May has got the only compromise the EU will give and which keeps enough Brexiteers on board, it is People's Vote diehard Remainers and 'Leave means Leave' diehard Leavers refusing to compromise
    Are you arguing that the result in parliament was close enough for there to be another vote?
    Are you arguing there is a closer alternative proposal in Parliament?
    Closer than the biggest defeat in history? Yes.
    You just can't tell us what it is.....
    If May whipped any of alternatives it would beat the deal.
    That's a planet-sized if. Ain't happening.So you are no further forward....
    Underlines that May is the problem.
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    dots said:

    Also (FPT): Here's the data split by 2016 vote. The deal is acceptable to an absolute majority of Leavers, and also a majority of Remainers (once you remove DKs). The No Deal / No Brexit options are predictably polarising.

    To be fair, acceptability is not quite the same as approval, but the Deal looks like the only option for moving on.

    https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/1088097071863947264

    I’m sorry, Tissue, OGH. All lovers of WA and FA. Being extremely on topic here, unless that deal changes quite a lot in a short space of time, in a way appearing completely unlikely, the brexiteers are not voting for it. The parliamentary Labour Party will have to disintegrate with enough voting for it, and that’s not likely either.

    The only definition of leave left in play now is the one between Bernard Jenkins ears, because that is the law of the land, and it should be clear to all of us nothing can stop it. a law created by executive and parliament working in harmony. On 29th of March UK voluntarily rips up its frictionless trade deal with the EU, and the only means of stopping it is the revoke button on the desk of the Prime Minister. Votes won on motions in parliament are meaningless because they don’t carry the power.

    I See Theresa May as completely honest and completely right, it’s impossible to hit that button. The politics of revoke is that our country is tribally divided on this now, that revoke button can’t be hit in the next six months, in fact years or even decades till we come back together in agreement as a people (minus Scotland who with hard brexit will be gone by then) to the extent that button can be hit. The politics just doesn’t allow it. Opposition voices saying she can do it either disingenuous or live in La la land. Any voice saying parliament can stop it equally in la la land.

    It is happening folks, the disorderly brexit with everyone blaming each other.
    Yep. 45% happy with no deal. That is the really interesting statistic.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So the government and its supporters are still holding the nation to ransom with threats of no deal.

    Nothing
    Has
    Changed.

    Or No Dealers to ransom with threats of remain
    May is perpetually disappointing. Rather than trying to find a compromise she has spent the week spinning against others trying to undermine them to force her deal.


    May has got the only compromise the EU will give and which keeps enough Brexiteers on board, it is People's Vote diehard Remainers and 'Leave means Leave' diehard Leavers refusing to compromise
    Are you arguing that the result in parliament was close enough for there to be another vote?
    Are you arguing there is a closer alternative proposal in Parliament?
    Closer than the biggest defeat in history? Yes.
    You just can't tell us what it is.....
    If May whipped any of alternatives it would beat the deal.
    And she should. I am astounded that no matter how many times the EU confirms that she was right to say they won't reopen the deal, she keeps acting like a few people softening on the deal sans a major part of it, is progress.
    She’s too arrogant/stubborn/dumb . She wants everyone to move except her essentially blackmailing is to do what she wants despite it being defeated by the biggest parliamentary vote ever.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    What you'd prove would be that people who do stupid nationalistic things blame the results on foreigners, not on doing stupid nationalistic things.

    If someone knows about the First World War and still has this mindset you're not going to suddenly jolt them out of it by making their grandchildren unemployed or temporarily depriving them of cucumbers.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    dots said:

    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fears are growing internationally that a no-deal Brexit poses a threat to the stability of the global economy, the head of Britain’s leading business body has warned. Carolyn Fairbairn, director-general of the CBI, said the failure to sort out Britain’s departure from the European Union was damaging Britain’s brand abroad and had joined a list of systemic risks to the world economy.

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/oecd-chief-says-wto-brexit-will-seamless-low-cost/
    I started stockpiling the breathers, blood thinners and other drugs my family need last week, if any family is going to miss out it will be those who fail to realise we rip up the frictionless trade deal with EU on 29 March, it can’t be stopped, it’s the law, and a law the divided politics can’t stop.

    I think the chaos will last more than six months, but I don’t think the chaos and pain of disorderly exit will define Brexit. there’s a lot of investment into UK not just European but further afield, and a lot of good paying jobs based on that investment. When we rip up frictionless trade with EU how much of that investment depended on being able to exploit the frictionless trade? What can be put in place to mitigate that? It is that equation in coming years that will define Brexit.
    How are you stockpiling prescription drugs?
    Stopping taking them until brexit day?
    Writing your own prescriptions?
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    OllyT said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
    The issue has always been whether 'no deal' is so bad that it is worth the political consequences of not leaving.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    dots said:

    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fears are growing internationally that a no-deal Brexit poses a threat to the stability of the global economy, the head of Britain’s leading business body has warned. Carolyn Fairbairn, director-general of the CBI, said the failure to sort out Britain’s departure from the European Union was damaging Britain’s brand abroad and had joined a list of systemic risks to the world economy.

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/oecd-chief-says-wto-brexit-will-seamless-low-cost/
    I started stockpiling the breathers, blood thinners and other drugs my family need last week, if any family is going to miss out it will be those who fail to realise we rip up the frictionless trade deal with EU on 29 March, it can’t be stopped, it’s the law, and a law the divided politics can’t stop.

    I think the chaos will last more than six months, but I don’t think the chaos and pain of disorderly exit will define Brexit. there’s a lot of investment into UK not just European but further afield, and a lot of good paying jobs based on that investment. When we rip up frictionless trade with EU how much of that investment depended on being able to exploit the frictionless trade? What can be put in place to mitigate that? It is that equation in coming years that will define Brexit.
    How are you stockpiling prescription drugs?
    Stopping taking them until brexit day?
    Writing your own prescriptions?
    Asking for repeat prescriptions a bit early works. I’m told.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited January 2019
    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Unicorn hunting remains as popular an activity as ever on pb. If only the EU will drop one of its constant demands since the outset on the offchance that a deal might just about be sellable to a bunch of wingnuts who are only lightly tethered to reality, it'll all be done and dusted.

    That's a bit harsh, Alistair. I would have said Grieve was fairly solidly anchored in reality. Corbyn, of course, is a different matter but we all know he'll vote for No Deal anyway.
    Corbyn has now said No Deal must be ruled out and will consider EUref2 if he cannot get through his plans for a general election or permanent Customs Union
    Corbyn also said he didn't know Paul Eisen, didn't have a seat on a train, had a fully costed manifesto and condemned violence by all sides in Venezuela and Iran.

    I judge him by his deeds, not his words. I still say he is aiming for no deal.
    Whereas those who judge him a Commie Spy a Putin Puppet a terrorist sympathiser and an Anti Semite judge him neither on his words or deeds. They just hope their pathetic smears work better than at GE 2017.

    IMO they would be better off developing some actual policies.

    Except perhaps they are Intellectually Bankrupt and dont have an answer to Corbyns.

    https://twitter.com/the_awakend/status/1029685536951345152

    Explain why Labour let so many of those suspended back in on the quiet.

    His own words and actions speak louder than anything you can offer to try and deflect the criticism


    Oh - this is another lovely Labour member

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/23/labour-candidate-tower-hamlets-fan-banned-bin-laden-hate-preacher/

    Antisemitism, by which I am especially referring to (anti) Jewish semites, has always for me been impossible to understand. That there are only a few million Jews makes it more unfathomable. I can only surmise that it's based on some kind of jealousy.

    If any Labour member can be rigorously shown, usually by the printed word, to be antisemite, he or she should be summarily relieved of Labour party membership(. full stop) Although I am open to correction here, I think this is where Corbyn is inadequate.
  • dots said:

    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fears are growing internationally that a no-deal Brexit poses a threat to the stability of the global economy, the head of Britain’s leading business body has warned. Carolyn Fairbairn, director-general of the CBI, said the failure to sort out Britain’s departure from the European Union was damaging Britain’s brand abroad and had joined a list of systemic risks to the world economy.

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/oecd-chief-says-wto-brexit-will-seamless-low-cost/
    I started stockpiling the breathers, blood thinners and other drugs my family need last week, if any family is going to miss out it will be those who fail to realise we rip up the frictionless trade deal with EU on 29 March, it can’t be stopped, it’s the law, and a law the divided politics can’t stop.

    I think the chaos will last more than six months, but I don’t think the chaos and pain of disorderly exit will define Brexit. there’s a lot of investment into UK not just European but further afield, and a lot of good paying jobs based on that investment. When we rip up frictionless trade with EU how much of that investment depended on being able to exploit the frictionless trade? What can be put in place to mitigate that? It is that equation in coming years that will define Brexit.
    How are you stockpiling prescription drugs?
    Stopping taking them until brexit day?
    Writing your own prescriptions?
    Asking for repeat prescriptions a bit early works. I’m told.
    Being the son of a doctor also works.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    nielh said:

    OllyT said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
    The issue has always been whether 'no deal' is so bad that it is worth the political consequences of not leaving.
    I don't get the impression that many of the hard leavers are worried about the political consequences. Or indeed any of the consequences.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    dots said:

    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fears are growing internationally that a no-deal Brexit poses a threat to the stability of the global economy, the head of Britain’s leading business body has warned. Carolyn Fairbairn, director-general of the CBI, said the failure to sort out Britain’s departure from the European Union was damaging Britain’s brand abroad and had joined a list of systemic risks to the world economy.

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/oecd-chief-says-wto-brexit-will-seamless-low-cost/
    I started stockpiling the breathers, blood thinners and other drugs my family need last week, if any family is going to miss out it will be those who fail to realise we rip up the frictionless trade deal with EU on 29 March, it can’t be stopped, it’s the law, and a law the divided politics can’t stop.

    I think the chaos will last more than six months, but I don’t think the chaos and pain of disorderly exit will define Brexit. there’s a lot of investment into UK not just European but further afield, and a lot of good paying jobs based on that investment. When we rip up frictionless trade with EU how much of that investment depended on being able to exploit the frictionless trade? What can be put in place to mitigate that? It is that equation in coming years that will define Brexit.
    How are you stockpiling prescription drugs?
    Stopping taking them until brexit day?
    Writing your own prescriptions?
    Asking for repeat prescriptions a bit early works. I’m told.
    Being the son of a doctor also works.
    It is against GMC guidance to precribe for family members, so be careful.

    Creeping forward with repeat prescriptions is quite straightforward to stock up a few extra weeks

    I cannot see this really being a problem myself.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    Floater said:

    Eeek! I clicked on that and got a Norton Security (which i don't have installed) '5 Virus' warning. Site must be infected with malware. Best avoided.
    Nice try - nothing wrong with the link according to my software
    This is the link to avoid.

    https://bitly.com/a/warning?hash=2S8iRvM&url=http://maielk.trade/?9642

    Nothing to do with your installed software - the site is trying to dupe you into clicking on a button that will doubtless install all sorts of nasties.
    Either McVey's account has been hacked; or she's redirecting to a site that's been hacked; or she typed the wrong URL into her tweet, and some enterprising scammer snapped up the mistyped URL to put malware on. (My betting's on the latter FWIW.)

    But it doesn't exactly augur well for those "technological solutions" that Brexiters like her claim will make the backstop unnecessary...
  • Foxy said:

    dots said:

    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fears are growing internationally that a no-deal Brexit poses a threat to the stability of the global economy, the head of Britain’s leading business body has warned. Carolyn Fairbairn, director-general of the CBI, said the failure to sort out Britain’s departure from the European Union was damaging Britain’s brand abroad and had joined a list of systemic risks to the world economy.

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/oecd-chief-says-wto-brexit-will-seamless-low-cost/
    I started stockpiling the breathers, blood thinners and other drugs my family need last week, if any family is going to miss out it will be those who fail to realise we rip up the frictionless trade deal with EU on 29 March, it can’t be stopped, it’s the law, and a law the divided politics can’t stop.

    I think the chaos will last more than six months, but I don’t think the chaos and pain of disorderly exit will define Brexit. there’s a lot of investment into UK not just European but further afield, and a lot of good paying jobs based on that investment. When we rip up frictionless trade with EU how much of that investment depended on being able to exploit the frictionless trade? What can be put in place to mitigate that? It is that equation in coming years that will define Brexit.
    How are you stockpiling prescription drugs?
    Stopping taking them until brexit day?
    Writing your own prescriptions?
    Asking for repeat prescriptions a bit early works. I’m told.
    Being the son of a doctor also works.
    It is against GMC guidance to precribe for family members, so be careful.

    Creeping forward with repeat prescriptions is quite straightforward to stock up a few extra weeks

    I cannot see this really being a problem myself.
    I know, but he knows quite a lot of doctors at our local surgery, some are in fact in neighbours.

    Am on about seven meds at the moment, but I'd struggle without my gabapentin 300.
  • I am not clear on this but if no deal is off the table and the deal is off the table and there are 4 weeks remaining ( ie 26th Feb to 29th March ) to legislate I assume we automatically no deal exit

    I am happy to be wrong
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    dots said:

    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fears are growing internationally that a no-deal Brexit poses a threat to the stability of the global economy, the head of Britain’s leading business body has warned. Carolyn Fairbairn, director-general of the CBI, said the failure to sort out Britain’s departure from the European Union was damaging Britain’s brand abroad and had joined a list of systemic risks to the world economy.

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/oecd-chief-says-wto-brexit-will-seamless-low-cost/
    I started stockpiling the breathers, blood thinners and other drugs my family need last week, if any family is going to miss out it will be those who fail to realise we rip up the frictionless trade deal with EU on 29 March, it can’t be stopped, it’s the law, and a law the divided politics can’t stop.

    I think the chaos will last more than six months, but I don’t think the chaos and pain of disorderly exit will define Brexit. there’s a lot of investment into UK not just European but further afield, and a lot of good paying jobs based on that investment. When we rip up frictionless trade with EU how much of that investment depended on being able to exploit the frictionless trade? What can be put in place to mitigate that? It is that equation in coming years that will define Brexit.
    How are you stockpiling prescription drugs?
    Stopping taking them until brexit day?
    Writing your own prescriptions?
    Asking for repeat prescriptions a bit early works. I’m told.
    Checking my prescription I get two months at a time and I can order a repeat prescription 1 month after the previous has been fulfilled. It states the earliest date for a repeat prescription on the prescription. If that makes sense.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So the government and its supporters are still holding the nation to ransom with threats of no deal.

    Nothing
    Has
    Changed.

    Or No Dealers to ransom with threats of remain
    May is perpetually disappointing. Rather than trying to find a compromise she has spent the week spinning against others trying to undermine them to force her deal.


    May has got the only compromise the EU will give and which keeps enough Brexiteers on board, it is People's Vote diehard Remainers and 'Leave means Leave' diehard Leavers refusing to compromise
    Are you arguing that the result in parliament was close enough for there to be another vote?
    Are you arguing there is a closer alternative proposal in Parliament?
    Closer than the biggest defeat in history? Yes.
    You just can't tell us what it is.....
    If May whipped any of alternatives it would beat the deal.
    And she should. I am astounded that no matter how many times the EU confirms that she was right to say they won't reopen the deal, she keeps acting like a few people softening on the deal sans a major part of it, is progress.
    She’s too arrogant/stubborn/dumb . She wants everyone to move except her essentially blackmailing is to do what she wants despite it being defeated by the biggest parliamentary vote ever.
    Move to what? If permanent customs union, permanent single market and EUref2 are all voted down in the Commons over the next few weeks then the Deal must be reconsidered as the only alternative to No Deal
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So the government and its supporters are still holding the nation to ransom with threats of no deal.

    Nothing
    Has
    Changed.

    Or No Dealers to ransom with threats of remain
    May is perpetually disappointing. Rather than trying to find a compromise she has spent the week spinning against others trying to undermine them to force her deal.


    May has got the only compromise the EU will give and which keeps enough Brexiteers on board, it is People's Vote diehard Remainers and 'Leave means Leave' diehard Leavers refusing to compromise
    Are you arguing that the result in parliament was close enough for there to be another vote?
    Are you arguing there is a closer alternative proposal in Parliament?
    Closer than the biggest defeat in history? Yes.
    You just can't tell us what it is.....
    If May whipped any of alternatives it would beat the deal.
    And she should. I am astounded that no matter how many times the EU confirms that she was right to say they won't reopen the deal, she keeps acting like a few people softening on the deal sans a major part of it, is progress.
    She’s too arrogant/stubborn/dumb . She wants everyone to move except her essentially blackmailing is to do what she wants despite it being defeated by the biggest parliamentary vote ever.
    Move to what? If permanent customs union, permanent single market and EUref2 are all voted down in the Commons over the next few weeks then the Deal must be reconsidered as the only alternative to No Deal
    You are highly selective about what can be reconsidered. Why should only the deal be conveniently revived? Why not another less heavily defeated option.
  • Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So the government and its supporters are still holding the nation to ransom with threats of no deal.

    Nothing
    Has
    Changed.

    Or No Dealers to ransom with threats of remain
    May is perpetually disappointing. Rather than trying to find a compromise she has spent the week spinning against others trying to undermine them to force her deal.


    May has got the only compromise the EU will give and which keeps enough Brexiteers on board, it is People's Vote diehard Remainers and 'Leave means Leave' diehard Leavers refusing to compromise
    Are you arguing that the result in parliament was close enough for there to be another vote?
    Are you arguing there is a closer alternative proposal in Parliament?
    Closer than the biggest defeat in history? Yes.
    You just can't tell us what it is.....
    If May whipped any of alternatives it would beat the deal.
    And she should. I am astounded that no matter how many times the EU confirms that she was right to say they won't reopen the deal, she keeps acting like a few people softening on the deal sans a major part of it, is progress.
    She’s too arrogant/stubborn/dumb . She wants everyone to move except her essentially blackmailing is to do what she wants despite it being defeated by the biggest parliamentary vote ever.
    Move to what? If permanent customs union, permanent single market and EUref2 are all voted down in the Commons over the next few weeks then the Deal must be reconsidered as the only alternative to No Deal
    You are highly selective about what can be reconsidered. Why should only the deal be conveniently revived? Why not another less heavily defeated option.
    Which is the less heavily defeated option. We have only had one voted on so far
  • IanB2 said:

    nielh said:

    OllyT said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
    The issue has always been whether 'no deal' is so bad that it is worth the political consequences of not leaving.
    I don't get the impression that many of the hard leavers are worried about the political consequences. Or indeed any of the consequences.
    The political consequences of "no deal" would fall on such as Soubry, Grieve and the bulk of the Labour Party who voted to trigger A50 in the first place.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,134
    edited January 2019
    Luke Johnson, the multimillionaire chairman of collapsed cafe chain Patisserie Valerie, has extracted more than £40m from the business since the cafe group floated on the stock market less than five years ago.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/23/patisserie-valerie-cafes-shut-old-compton-street-london

    What a disgraceful headline / first paragraph. They make it sound like he was up to no good “extracting” money out of the company, when he was just selling some shares and in fact has just lost £13 million of it back and all because it appears a large scale accounting fraud occurred which was nothing to do with him.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    I

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So the government and its supporters are still holding the nation to ransom with threats of no deal.

    Nothing
    Has
    Changed.

    Or No Dealers to ransom with threats of remain
    May is perpetually disappointing. Rather than trying to find a compromise she has spent the week spinning against others trying to undermine them to force her deal.


    May has got the only compromise the EU will give and which keeps enough Brexiteers on board, it is People's Vote diehard Remainers and 'Leave means Leave' diehard Leavers refusing to compromise
    Are you arguing that the result in parliament was close enough for there to be another vote?
    Are you arguing there is a closer alternative proposal in Parliament?
    Closer than the biggest defeat in history? Yes.
    You just can't tell us what it is.....
    If May whipped any of alternatives it would beat the deal.
    And she should. I am astounded that no matter how many times the EU confirms that she was right to say they won't reopen the deal, she keeps acting like a few people softening on the deal sans a major part of it, is progress.
    She’s too arrogant/stubborn/dumb . She wants everyone to move except her essentially blackmailing is to do what she wants despite it being defeated by the biggest parliamentary vote ever.
    Move to what? If permanent customs union, permanent single market and EUref2 are all voted down in the Commons over the next few weeks then the Deal must be reconsidered as the only alternative to No Deal
    You are highly selective about what can be reconsidered. Why should only the deal be conveniently revived? Why not another less heavily defeated option.
    Which is the less heavily defeated option. We have only had one voted on so far
    48:52
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Luke Johnson, the multimillionaire chairman of collapsed cafe chain Patisserie Valerie, has extracted more than £40m from the business since the cafe group floated on the stock market less than five years ago.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/23/patisserie-valerie-cafes-shut-old-compton-street-london

    What a disgraceful headline / first paragraph. They make it sound like he was up to no good “extracting” money out of the company, when he was just selling some shares and in fact has just lost £13 million of it back and all because it appears a large scale accounting fraud occurred which was nothing to do with him.

    Well.. it is the Gruainiad.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469

    IanB2 said:

    nielh said:

    OllyT said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
    The issue has always been whether 'no deal' is so bad that it is worth the political consequences of not leaving.
    I don't get the impression that many of the hard leavers are worried about the political consequences. Or indeed any of the consequences.
    The political consequences of "no deal" would fall on such as Soubry, Grieve and the bulk of the Labour Party who voted to trigger A50 in the first place.
    Rubbish.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    nielh said:

    OllyT said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
    The issue has always been whether 'no deal' is so bad that it is worth the political consequences of not leaving.
    nielh said:

    OllyT said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
    The issue has always been whether 'no deal' is so bad that it is worth the political consequences of not leaving.
    The hardliners have used the fact that most people would wish to honour the referendum result to manoeuvre us into a type of Brexit that would almost certainly have seen them lose the referendum if they had been honest and upfront about their intentions during the campaign.

    Clever but duplicitous. So if the country wants to leave on WTO terms then so be it. There won't be much sympathy in this household if the warnings are accurate. Sadly those that suffer the financial consequences won't be the Moggs and Johnsons of this world.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Every step that has been undertaken, leave and remain, has been heavily trailed in the media, even one on one Cabinet discussions are, what counts as secret in this context?
  • IanB2 said:

    nielh said:

    OllyT said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
    The issue has always been whether 'no deal' is so bad that it is worth the political consequences of not leaving.
    I don't get the impression that many of the hard leavers are worried about the political consequences. Or indeed any of the consequences.
    The political consequences of "no deal" would fall on such as Soubry, Grieve and the bulk of the Labour Party who voted to trigger A50 in the first place.
    Rubbish.
    It would fall on the whole political establishment. No one gets a pass on this
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676

    IanB2 said:

    nielh said:

    OllyT said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
    The issue has always been whether 'no deal' is so bad that it is worth the political consequences of not leaving.
    I don't get the impression that many of the hard leavers are worried about the political consequences. Or indeed any of the consequences.
    The political consequences of "no deal" would fall on such as Soubry, Grieve and the bulk of the Labour Party who voted to trigger A50 in the first place.
    Rubbish.
    It would fall on the whole political establishment. No one gets a pass on this

    IanB2 said:

    nielh said:

    OllyT said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
    The issue has always been whether 'no deal' is so bad that it is worth the political consequences of not leaving.
    I don't get the impression that many of the hard leavers are worried about the political consequences. Or indeed any of the consequences.
    The political consequences of "no deal" would fall on such as Soubry, Grieve and the bulk of the Labour Party who voted to trigger A50 in the first place.
    Rubbish.
    It would fall on the whole political establishmentz. No one gets a pass on this
    The SNP will certainly get a pass. The whole debacle makes their point for them. Westminster/Whitehall is broken.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Scott_P said:
    The timing of the EU and its various establishments and institutions, can at times be exceptional indeed, as the ECJ case on A50 shows.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    IanB2 said:

    nielh said:

    OllyT said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
    The issue has always been whether 'no deal' is so bad that it is worth the political consequences of not leaving.
    I don't get the impression that many of the hard leavers are worried about the political consequences. Or indeed any of the consequences.
    The political consequences of "no deal" would fall on such as Soubry, Grieve and the bulk of the Labour Party who voted to trigger A50 in the first place.
    Rubbish.
    It would fall on the whole political establishment. No one gets a pass on this
    Some more than others. People are not about to start voting for entirely new parties en masse, so they'll have to make the same judgement of least worst.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    edited January 2019
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So the government and its supporters are still holding the nation to ransom with threats of no deal.

    Nothing
    Has
    Changed.

    Or No Dealers to ransom with threats of remain
    May is perpetually disappointing. Rather than trying to find a compromise she has spent the l.


    May has got the only compromise the EU will give and which keeps enough Brexiteers on board, it is People's Vote diehard Remainers and 'Leave means Leave' diehard Leavers refusing to compromise
    Are you arguing that the result in parliament was close enough for there to be another vote?
    Are you arguing there is a closer alternative proposal in Parliament?
    Closer than the biggest defeat in history? Yes.
    You just can't tell us what it is.....
    If May whipped any of alternatives it would beat the deal.
    And she should. I am astounded that no matter how many times the EU confirms that she was right to say they won't reopen the deal, she keeps acting like a few people softening on the deal sans a major part of it, is progress.
    She’s too arrogant/stubborn/dumb . She wants everyone to move except her essentially blackmailing is to do what she wants despite it being defeated by the biggest parliamentary vote ever.
    Move to what? If permanent customs union, permanent single market and EUref2 are all voted down in the Commons over the next few weeks then the Deal must be reconsidered as the only alternative to No Deal
    You are highly selective about what can be reconsidered. Why should only the deal be conveniently revived? Why not another less heavily defeated option.
    It depends on the numbers, the Deal could even have got more votes than the alternatives.

    If not, most No Dealers may switch to the Deal to give the Deal a narrow majority rather than risk allowing permanent Customs Union/Single Market or Remain v Deal EUref2 getting a narrow majority on a second vote
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,158
    edited January 2019

    IanB2 said:

    nielh said:

    OllyT said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
    The issue has always been whether 'no deal' is so bad that it is worth the political consequences of not leaving.
    I don't get the impression that many of the hard leavers are worried about the political consequences. Or indeed any of the consequences.
    The political consequences of "no deal" would fall on such as Soubry, Grieve and the bulk of the Labour Party who voted to trigger A50 in the first place.
    Rubbish.
    It would fall on the whole political establishmentz. No one gets a pass on this
    The SNP will certainly get a pass. The whole debacle makes their point for them. Westminster/Whitehall is broken.

    Not really. They are doing everything to stop a UK wide referendum being carried out
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,676
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So the government and its supporters are still holding the nation to ransom with threats of no deal.

    Nothing
    Has
    Changed.

    Or No Dealers to ransom with threats of remain
    May is perpetually disappointing. Rather than trying to find a compromise she has spent the week spinning against others trying to undermine them to force her deal.


    May has got the only compromise the EU will give and which keeps enough Brexiteers on board, it is People's Vote diehard Remainers and 'Leave means Leave' diehard Leavers refusing to compromise
    Are you arguing that the result in parliament was close enough for there to be another vote?
    Are you arguing there is a closer alternative proposal in Parliament?
    Closer than the biggest defeat in history? Yes.
    You just can't tell us what it is.....
    If May whipped any of alternatives it would beat the deal.
    And she should. I am astounded that no matter how many times the EU confirms that she was right to say they won't reopen the deal, she keeps acting like a few people softening on the deal sans a major part of it, is progress.
    She’s too arrogant/stubborn/dumb . She wants everyone to move except her essentially blackmailing is to do what she wants despite it being defeated by the biggest parliamentary vote ever.
    Move to what? If permanent customs union, permanent single market and EUref2 are all voted down in the Commons over the next few weeks then the Deal must be reconsidered as the only alternative to No Deal
    You are highly selective about what can be reconsidered. Why should only the deal be conveniently revived? Why not another less heavily defeated option.
    It depends on the numbers, the Deal could even get more votes than the alternatives.

    If not, No Dealers may switch to the Deal to give the Deal a narrow majority rather than risk allowing permanent Customs Union/Single Market or Remain v EUref2 getting a narrow majority on a second vote
    This is the same stuff we had all Autumn and over Xmas. Nothing has changed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited January 2019
    Jonathan said:

    This is the same stuff we had all Autumn and over Xmas. Nothing has changed.

    Ah, but now it will be different because...because it will, ok? They had no pressure then, and so much time, and it's not like parliamentarians are getting ready to give themselves more time and less pressure now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    So the government and its supporters are still holding the nation to ransom with threats of no deal.

    Nothing
    Has
    Changed.

    Or No Dealers to ransom with threats of remain
    May is perpetually disappointing. Rather than trying to find a compromise she has spent the week spinning against others trying to undermine them to force her deal.


    May has got the only compromise the EU will give and which keeps enough Brexiteers on board, it is People's Vote diehard Remainers and 'Leave means Leave' diehard Leavers refusing to compromise
    Are you arguing that the result in parliament was close enough for there to be another vote?
    Are you arguing there is a closer alternative proposal in Parliament?
    Closer than the biggest defeat in history? Yes.
    You just can't tell us what it is.....
    If May whipped any of alternatives it would beat the deal.
    And she should. I am astoundprogress.
    She’s too arrogant/stubborn/dumb . She wants everyone to move except her essentially blackmailing is to do what she wants despite it being defeated by the biggest parliamentary vote ever.
    Move to what? If permanent customs union, permanent single market and EUref2 are all voted down in the Commons over the next few weeks then the Deal must be reconsidered as the only alternative to No Deal
    You are highly selective about what cer less heavily defeated option.
    It depends on the numbers, the Deal could even get more votes than the alternatives.

    If not, No Dealers may s
    This is the same stuff we had all Autumn and over Xmas. Nothing has changed.
    Everything will have changed once the SM/CU and EUref2 votes have been held, then if they have been defeated too the Deal comes back into play, while if they are only narrowly defeated No Dealers will start to switch to the Deal to avoid BINO or Remain v Deal EUref2 on a second vote
  • Bohemian Rhapsody director Bryan Singer has reportedly been accused of sexually assaulting and sleeping with a string of under-age boys.

    The allegations come from an article in The Atlantic, which quotes four men who it says haven't spoken publicly before.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Floater said:

    Eeek! I clicked on that and got a Norton Security (which i don't have installed) '5 Virus' warning. Site must be infected with malware. Best avoided.
    Nice try - nothing wrong with the link according to my software
    This is the link to avoid.

    https://bitly.com/a/warning?hash=2S8iRvM&url=http://maielk.trade/?9642

    Nothing to do with your installed software - the site is trying to dupe you into clicking on a button that will doubtless install all sorts of nasties.
    Ahh - I just looked at the video - well done for pointing out anything else which would impact peoples systems
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Bohemian Rhapsody director Bryan Singer has reportedly been accused of sexually assaulting and sleeping with a string of under-age boys.

    The allegations come from an article in The Atlantic, which quotes four men who it says haven't spoken publicly before.

    Not the first time with such accusations. Wasn't he kicked off working on the movie part way through or something?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    nielh said:

    OllyT said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
    The issue has always been whether 'no deal' is so bad that it is worth the political consequences of not leaving.
    The point of not making any preparation for two years was to make it so bad, by default. The real worry should for those complicit in this, if we still somehow No Deal Brexit with hardly any planning. Any other sphere of public life, they'd probably be facing criminal charges.
  • If labour are perceived to be trying to block brexit they will pay a heavy price in leave voting areas
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,776
    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Eeek! I clicked on that and got a Norton Security (which i don't have installed) '5 Virus' warning. Site must be infected with malware. Best avoided.
    Nice try - nothing wrong with the link according to my software
    This is the link to avoid.

    https://bitly.com/a/warning?hash=2S8iRvM&url=http://maielk.trade/?9642

    Nothing to do with your installed software - the site is trying to dupe you into clicking on a button that will doubtless install all sorts of nasties.
    Ahh - I just looked at the video - well done for pointing out anything else which would impact peoples systems
    Get to Know WTO?

    These people are insane.

    Bring back Thatcher.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    kle4 said:

    Every step that has been undertaken, leave and remain, has been heavily trailed in the media, even one on one Cabinet discussions are, what counts as secret in this context?
    Good of the Telegraph to explain that 19 is nearly 20, though.
  • kle4 said:

    Bohemian Rhapsody director Bryan Singer has reportedly been accused of sexually assaulting and sleeping with a string of under-age boys.

    The allegations come from an article in The Atlantic, which quotes four men who it says haven't spoken publicly before.

    Not the first time with such accusations. Wasn't he kicked off working on the movie part way through or something?
    He was but I believe that was to do with the way he was treating the actors and crew and also because he went absent for a few days which held up shooting.

    On the sex accusations apparently the courts threw out the most high profile case as being completely groundless. One of the claims was that Singer had assaulted sexually someone in Hawaii and Singer could show he wasn't even on the Islands at the time.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    IanB2 said:

    nielh said:

    OllyT said:

    The "As it stands" gives the game away that Esther knows the writing is on the wall.
    I'm starting to think it would be worth a no deal crisis just to see these people get found out.
    I ham slowly coming to the same conclusion. Not to worry though the leavers will have an excuse for every eventuality
    The issue has always been whether 'no deal' is so bad that it is worth the political consequences of not leaving.
    I don't get the impression that many of the hard leavers are worried about the political consequences. Or indeed any of the consequences.
    The political consequences of "no deal" would fall on such as Soubry, Grieve and the bulk of the Labour Party who voted to trigger A50 in the first place.
    Not. First law of politics: the government is to blame.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    If labour are perceived to be trying to block brexit they will pay a heavy price in leave voting areas

    And if they refuse to back EUref2 with a Remain option they will pay a heavy price in urban voting Remain areas
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,776
    Bet the ERG tweeps are feeling pretty sick tonight. In their endless search for the purist unicorn known to man they have probably thrown their precious away.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537

    If labour are perceived to be trying to block brexit they will pay a heavy price in leave voting areas

    Ironically Cooper's amendment may facilitate Brexit, by making Brexiteers settle for May's deal.
  • If labour are perceived to be trying to block brexit they will pay a heavy price in leave voting areas

    Ironically Cooper's amendment may facilitate Brexit, by making Brexiteers settle for May's deal.
    To be honest just pass the deal and lets move on
  • kle4 said:

    Every step that has been undertaken, leave and remain, has been heavily trailed in the media, even one on one Cabinet discussions are, what counts as secret in this context?
    Amber Rudd must know now she is toast at the next GE. A tiny majority and a constituency that voted Leave. Maybe she is hoping if we stay in she can get some sort of position in Brussels.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,738

    kle4 said:

    Every step that has been undertaken, leave and remain, has been heavily trailed in the media, even one on one Cabinet discussions are, what counts as secret in this context?
    Amber Rudd must know now she is toast at the next GE. A tiny majority and a constituency that voted Leave. Maybe she is hoping if we stay in she can get some sort of position in Brussels.
    Her constituency is majority Remain now, not that in makes much difference to FPTP politics.
  • Luke Johnson, the multimillionaire chairman of collapsed cafe chain Patisserie Valerie, has extracted more than £40m from the business since the cafe group floated on the stock market less than five years ago.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/23/patisserie-valerie-cafes-shut-old-compton-street-london

    What a disgraceful headline / first paragraph. They make it sound like he was up to no good “extracting” money out of the company, when he was just selling some shares and in fact has just lost £13 million of it back and all because it appears a large scale accounting fraud occurred which was nothing to do with him.

    Presumably those people who are classifying the Mail as an unreliable source will be all over this.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,776

    dots said:

    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fears are growing internationally that a no-deal Brexit poses a threat to the stability of the global economy, the head of Britain’s leading business body has warned. Carolyn Fairbairn, director-general of the CBI, said the failure to sort out Britain’s departure from the European Union was damaging Britain’s brand abroad and had joined a list of systemic risks to the world economy.

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/oecd-chief-says-wto-brexit-will-seamless-low-cost/
    I started stockpiling the breathers, blood thinners and other drugs my family need last week, if any family is going to miss out it will be those who fail to realise we rip up the frictionless trade deal with EU on 29 March, it can’t be stopped, it’s the law, and a law the divided politics can’t stop.

    I think the chaos will last more than six months, but I don’t think the chaos and pain of disorderly exit will define Brexit. there’s a lot of investment into UK not just European but further afield, and a lot of good paying jobs based on that investment. When we rip up frictionless trade with EU how much of that investment depended on being able to exploit the frictionless trade? What can be put in place to mitigate that? It is that equation in coming years that will define Brexit.
    How are you stockpiling prescription drugs?
    Stopping taking them until brexit day?
    Writing your own prescriptions?
    Asking for repeat prescriptions a bit early works. I’m told.
    Checking my prescription I get two months at a time and I can order a repeat prescription 1 month after the previous has been fulfilled. It states the earliest date for a repeat prescription on the prescription. If that makes sense.
    I have been refused meds in the past on the basis that I had been given some only a week or two previously and should have enough for a month.

    Like all things NHS, this is probably entirely dependent on your GP, Clinic Commissing Group etc etc.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    edited January 2019

    If labour are perceived to be trying to block brexit they will pay a heavy price in leave voting areas

    Ironically Cooper's amendment may facilitate Brexit, by making Brexiteers settle for May's deal.
    But will it put pressure on Labour MPs in Leave constituencies to support May's Deal? That's the issue.

    They'll get both Brexit and their wished-for election, when the DUP pulls the plug in a subsequent VONC....
  • kle4 said:

    Every step that has been undertaken, leave and remain, has been heavily trailed in the media, even one on one Cabinet discussions are, what counts as secret in this context?
    Amber Rudd must know now she is toast at the next GE. A tiny majority and a constituency that voted Leave. Maybe she is hoping if we stay in she can get some sort of position in Brussels.
    Her constituency is majority Remain now, not that in makes much difference to FPTP politics.
    Believing those opinion polls again William. I would have thought you would have learnt your lesson by now.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    edited January 2019

    Foxy said:

    dots said:

    Floater said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fears are growing internationally that a no-deal Brexit poses a threat to the stability of the global economy, the head of Britain’s leading business body has warned. Carolyn Fairbairn, director-general of the CBI, said the failure to sort out Britain’s departure from the European Union was damaging Britain’s brand abroad and had joined a list of systemic risks to the world economy.

    https://order-order.com/2019/01/22/oecd-chief-says-wto-brexit-will-seamless-low-cost/
    I started stockpiling the breathers, blood thinners and other drugs my family need last week, if any family is going to miss out it will be those who fail to realise we rip up the frictionless trade deal with EU on 29 March, it can’t be stopped, it’s the law, and a law the divided politics can’t stop.

    I think the chaos will last more than six months, but I don’t think the chaos and pain of disorderly exit will define Brexit. there’s a lot of investment into UK not just European but further afield, and a lot of good paying jobs based on that investment. When we rip up frictionless trade with EU how much of that investment depended on being able to exploit the frictionless trade? What can be put in place to mitigate that? It is that equation in coming years that will define Brexit.
    How are you stockpiling prescription drugs?
    Stopping taking them until brexit day?
    Writing your own prescriptions?
    Asking for repeat prescriptions a bit early works. I’m told.
    Being the son of a doctor also works.
    It is against GMC guidance to precribe for family members, so be careful.

    Creeping forward with repeat prescriptions is quite straightforward to stock up a few extra weeks

    I cannot see this really being a problem myself.
    I know, but he knows quite a lot of doctors at our local surgery, some are in fact in neighbours.

    Am on about seven meds at the moment, but I'd struggle without my gabapentin 300.
    It's a personal worry for me too - one of my prescriptions is only made in Germany right now. Like many others I am ordering ahead to build up a stock.

    Still I'm greatly reassured by all those Brexiteers telling us that all will be fine even if we crash-out with no deal.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,776

    If labour are perceived to be trying to block brexit they will pay a heavy price in leave voting areas

    Ironically Cooper's amendment may facilitate Brexit, by making Brexiteers settle for May's deal.
    But will it put pressure on Labour MPs in Leave constituencies to support May's Deal? That's the issue.

    They'll get both Brexit and their wished-for election, when the DUP pulls the plug in a subsequent VONC....
    May's Deal doesn't pass unless she gets the DUP on the ship. Somehow.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,776
    When does the panic buying start?

    Can't be too many days now.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited January 2019

    Amber Rudd must know now she is toast at the next GE. A tiny majority and a constituency that voted Leave. Maybe she is hoping if we stay in she can get some sort of position in Brussels.

    She's doing exactly what you say you want MPs to do: using her own, well-informed judgement as to what is best for the country, even if it's not party policy.

    As for whether she's toast at the next GE or not, who knows? Ladbrokes doesn't seem to think so. I shall certainly be doing my best to help ensure she's re-elected, as will many other Conservative supporters.
  • If labour are perceived to be trying to block brexit they will pay a heavy price in leave voting areas

    Ironically Cooper's amendment may facilitate Brexit, by making Brexiteers settle for May's deal.
    But will it put pressure on Labour MPs in Leave constituencies to support May's Deal? That's the issue.

    They'll get both Brexit and their wished-for election, when the DUP pulls the plug in a subsequent VONC....
    May's Deal doesn't pass unless she gets the DUP on the ship. Somehow.
    Persuade Sinn Fein to take their seats and back the deal.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Luke Johnson, the multimillionaire chairman of collapsed cafe chain Patisserie Valerie, has extracted more than £40m from the business since the cafe group floated on the stock market less than five years ago.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/23/patisserie-valerie-cafes-shut-old-compton-street-london

    What a disgraceful headline / first paragraph. They make it sound like he was up to no good “extracting” money out of the company, when he was just selling some shares and in fact has just lost £13 million of it back and all because it appears a large scale accounting fraud occurred which was nothing to do with him.

    Presumably those people who are classifying the Mail as an unreliable source will be all over this.
    Why, do you think the article conatins any lies?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626

    kle4 said:

    Every step that has been undertaken, leave and remain, has been heavily trailed in the media, even one on one Cabinet discussions are, what counts as secret in this context?
    Amber Rudd must know now she is toast at the next GE. A tiny majority and a constituency that voted Leave. Maybe she is hoping if we stay in she can get some sort of position in Brussels.
    Her constituency is majority Remain now, not that in makes much difference to FPTP politics.
    I imagine a whole bunch of her activists from 2017 will now melt away....not to mention the Leave voters. I won't be voting Wollaston in Totnes and I sure as hell wouldn't be voting for Rudd if I lived in Hastings, even if it means Labour wins the seat. And I can't see a raft of 2017 Labour voters switching Tory to express their gratitude to her.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited January 2019

    Luke Johnson, the multimillionaire chairman of collapsed cafe chain Patisserie Valerie, has extracted more than £40m from the business since the cafe group floated on the stock market less than five years ago.

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/23/patisserie-valerie-cafes-shut-old-compton-street-london

    What a disgraceful headline / first paragraph. They make it sound like he was up to no good “extracting” money out of the company, when he was just selling some shares and in fact has just lost £13 million of it back and all because it appears a large scale accounting fraud occurred which was nothing to do with him.

    Presumably those people who are classifying the Mail as an unreliable source will be all over this.
    Why, do you think the article conatins any lies?
    No, just deliberately misleading language designed to stir up hatred. Which is exactly what the Mail does.
  • Amber Rudd must know now she is toast at the next GE. A tiny majority and a constituency that voted Leave. Maybe she is hoping if we stay in she can get some sort of position in Brussels.

    She's doing exactly what you say you want MPs to do: using her own, well-informed judgement as to what is best for the country, even if it's not party policy.

    As for whether she's toast at the next GE or not, who knows? Ladbrokes doesn't seem to think so. I shall certainly be doing my best to help ensure she's re-elected, as will many other Conservative supporters.
    I would if I could. She voted for the deal and will so again
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    kle4 said:

    Every step that has been undertaken, leave and remain, has been heavily trailed in the media, even one on one Cabinet discussions are, what counts as secret in this context?
    Amber Rudd must know now she is toast at the next GE. A tiny majority and a constituency that voted Leave. Maybe she is hoping if we stay in she can get some sort of position in Brussels.
    Her constituency is majority Remain now, not that in makes much difference to FPTP politics.
    I imagine a whole bunch of her activists from 2017 will now melt away....not to mention the Leave voters. I won't be voting Wollaston in Totnes and I sure as hell wouldn't be voting for Rudd if I lived in Hastings, even if it means Labour wins the seat. And I can't see a raft of 2017 Labour voters switching Tory to express their gratitude to her.
    Hastings is moving away from the Tories for demographic reasons, similar to Hove and Brighton Pavilion. Even if the Tories win a majority next time they could lose the seat.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    I confess I didn't appreciate the SDP was still a thing.
  • If labour are perceived to be trying to block brexit they will pay a heavy price in leave voting areas

    Ironically Cooper's amendment may facilitate Brexit, by making Brexiteers settle for May's deal.
    But will it put pressure on Labour MPs in Leave constituencies to support May's Deal? That's the issue.

    They'll get both Brexit and their wished-for election, when the DUP pulls the plug in a subsequent VONC....
    May's Deal doesn't pass unless she gets the DUP on the ship. Somehow.
    Persuade Sinn Fein to take their seats and back the deal.
    Seems like the whole of Northern Ireland backs the deal but for the 10 DUP mps
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,776

    kle4 said:

    Every step that has been undertaken, leave and remain, has been heavily trailed in the media, even one on one Cabinet discussions are, what counts as secret in this context?
    Amber Rudd must know now she is toast at the next GE. A tiny majority and a constituency that voted Leave. Maybe she is hoping if we stay in she can get some sort of position in Brussels.
    Her constituency is majority Remain now, not that in makes much difference to FPTP politics.
    I imagine a whole bunch of her activists from 2017 will now melt away....not to mention the Leave voters. I won't be voting Wollaston in Totnes and I sure as hell wouldn't be voting for Rudd if I lived in Hastings, even if it means Labour wins the seat. And I can't see a raft of 2017 Labour voters switching Tory to express their gratitude to her.
    Be careful what you wish for...
  • AndyJS said:

    kle4 said:

    Every step that has been undertaken, leave and remain, has been heavily trailed in the media, even one on one Cabinet discussions are, what counts as secret in this context?
    Amber Rudd must know now she is toast at the next GE. A tiny majority and a constituency that voted Leave. Maybe she is hoping if we stay in she can get some sort of position in Brussels.
    Her constituency is majority Remain now, not that in makes much difference to FPTP politics.
    I imagine a whole bunch of her activists from 2017 will now melt away....not to mention the Leave voters. I won't be voting Wollaston in Totnes and I sure as hell wouldn't be voting for Rudd if I lived in Hastings, even if it means Labour wins the seat. And I can't see a raft of 2017 Labour voters switching Tory to express their gratitude to her.
    Hastings is moving away from the Tories for demographic reasons, similar to Hove and Brighton Pavilion. Even if the Tories win a majority next time they could lose the seat.
    Hmm, not sure about that. It certainly didn't move away from the Tories between 2010 and 2015. A huge amount depends on getting the vote out in the substantial part of the constituency which isn't Hastings town.
This discussion has been closed.