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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The issues: Which parties are seen to be best

SystemSystem Posts: 11,742
edited October 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The issues: Which parties are seen to be best

The chart above shows the latest YouGov best party on specific issues tracker. Today’s figures are not remarkable but I thought it useful to post as a reference point.

Read the full story here


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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    I'm not sure that the economy ever becomes an unimportant issue.

    That said, I would expect the message will be "we've made great progress, let us finish the job" or some kind of variant. (combined with get rid of the LibDem monkey on our back*)

    * Not afraid of being accused of being racist by using the term "monkey" as the LibDems don't have any non-white MPs...
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    NextNext Posts: 826
    tim said:

    What we need to know is who is best at killing the Go Home vans?

    I don't know. But I do know that all those people who complained about them have multiplied the reach of the original advertising many times.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I'm curious that most topics polarise voters between the Conservatives and Labour, with the exception of "Europe" and to a lesser extent Immigration and Education.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Off topic, this autumn's moral panic is blond children with Roma:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24626422
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    What's interesting for me is that Labour is in the lead on only 3 topics but on two: jobs and education the lead is quite small and, potentially, vulnerable (more so on jobs I'd have thought).

    Also the Tory's lead on Europe is - considering how much they go on about it - relatively small.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,056
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Charles said:

    I'm not sure that the economy ever becomes an unimportant issue.

    That said, I would expect the message will be "we've made great progress, let us finish the job" or some kind of variant. (combined with get rid of the LibDem monkey on our back*)

    * Not afraid of being accused of being racist by using the term "monkey" as the LibDems don't have any non-white MPs...

    Charles said:

    I'm not sure that the economy ever becomes an unimportant issue.

    That said, I would expect the message will be "we've made great progress, let us finish the job" or some kind of variant. (combined with get rid of the LibDem monkey on our back*)

    * Not afraid of being accused of being racist by using the term "monkey" as the LibDems don't have any non-white MPs...

    The polling suggests that the LDs are seen as restraining the Tories from their baser instincts.

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,209
    A wagon has just turned up to empty the septic tank. It has written along its side:

    "This tank is full of political promises..."

    Arf!
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    EU illegal immigrants STOLE the vans and ran over "tim"

    Irony just sucks ...
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    tim said:

    antifrank said:

    Off topic, this autumn's moral panic is blond children with Roma:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24626422

    Without reading it I'm guessing that gives hope to the parents of missing blonde children does it?

    Two such children are named in the article, without any apparent (or indeed in one of those cases conceivable) connection to the story.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013
    One possible conclusion from the chart is that the LibDems really haven't got a USP; there's no issue which stands out as one they might own, out of those listed. Perhaps they would do better to concentrate their messaging much more heavily on one or at most two specific areas - Europe or Education, perhaps.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    tim said:

    Cyclefree said:

    What's interesting for me is that Labour is in the lead on only 3 topics but on two: jobs and education the lead is quite small and, potentially, vulnerable (more so on jobs I'd have thought).

    Also the Tory's lead on Europe is - considering how much they go on about it - relatively small.

    Miles ahead on Jobs health and education in the marginals polling though.
    And nobody cares about Europe

    Miles ahead on jobs ? and by the graph you could debate on education.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    tim said:

    Cyclefree said:

    What's interesting for me is that Labour is in the lead on only 3 topics but on two: jobs and education the lead is quite small and, potentially, vulnerable (more so on jobs I'd have thought).

    Also the Tory's lead on Europe is - considering how much they go on about it - relatively small.

    Miles ahead on Jobs health and education in the marginals polling though.
    And nobody cares about Europe

    Is there a link for the marginals polling you quote? Thanks.

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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,045
    UKIP should be included in these questions, as with Best PM.

    The most encouraging numbers for the Conservatives are the big lead on the economy, and the fact they're almost level-pegging with Labour on Jobs, an area of historic Labour strength,
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    One possible conclusion from the chart is that the LibDems really haven't got a USP; there's no issue which stands out as one they might own, out of those listed. Perhaps they would do better to concentrate their messaging much more heavily on one or at most two specific areas - Europe or Education, perhaps.

    Van stopping ?
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Cyclefree said:

    tim said:

    Cyclefree said:

    What's interesting for me is that Labour is in the lead on only 3 topics but on two: jobs and education the lead is quite small and, potentially, vulnerable (more so on jobs I'd have thought).

    Also the Tory's lead on Europe is - considering how much they go on about it - relatively small.

    Miles ahead on Jobs health and education in the marginals polling though.
    And nobody cares about Europe

    Is there a link for the marginals polling you quote? Thanks.

    Yes, I would like to see that.
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    Sean_F said:

    UKIP should be included in these questions, as with Best PM.

    The most encouraging numbers for the Conservatives are the big lead on the economy, and the fact they're almost level-pegging with Labour on Jobs, an area of historic Labour strength,

    An interesting sub section of jobs would be creating and preserving jobs.

    There's a good chance the Tories would be seen as better at creating jobs.
    Labour would be seen as better at preserving existing jobs.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 18s
    BREAKING: Sir John Major calls for George Osborne to impose a new profits tax on energy companies to help struggling consumers

  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    tim said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tim said:

    Cyclefree said:

    What's interesting for me is that Labour is in the lead on only 3 topics but on two: jobs and education the lead is quite small and, potentially, vulnerable (more so on jobs I'd have thought).

    Also the Tory's lead on Europe is - considering how much they go on about it - relatively small.

    Miles ahead on Jobs health and education in the marginals polling though.
    And nobody cares about Europe

    Is there a link for the marginals polling you quote? Thanks.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2013/09/labour-still-on-course-in-the-marginals-but-its-not-over-yet/

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Con-held-Labour-targets-Full-tables.pdf


    Lab double figure leads on health jobs education

    Among 2010 Lib Dems in the key marginals leads for Labour of over 20% on those three
    Thanks.

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,639
    tim said:

    Marxist Marxists everywhere

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 35s
    BREAKING: Sir John Major calls for George Osborne to impose a new profits tax on energy companies to help struggling consumers.

    LOL.

    Masterstroke.

    "God they've got us on this power thing what on earth are we going to do? We've committed ourselves to opposing it but they [gestures outside to the public] seem to like it. We're sc****ed. Any ideas Lynton?"

    "Well....isn't John Major a Tory, a non-posho, quite a popular PM if you see what I mean. Let's get him to float some response. Say a tax or something.

    "People will love that..Tories..men of the people...sensible ideas...and we can claim it will generate the right sort of debate."

    Job done.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    tim said:

    Marxist Marxists everywhere

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 35s
    BREAKING: Sir John Major calls for George Osborne to impose a new profits tax on energy companies to help struggling consumers.

    LOL.

    On this,major living in the real world with the idea of switching looking sillier.

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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    I wonder if the perception is that Labour would be seen as better at preserving existing 'public sector' jobs?

    Sean_F said:

    UKIP should be included in these questions, as with Best PM.

    The most encouraging numbers for the Conservatives are the big lead on the economy, and the fact they're almost level-pegging with Labour on Jobs, an area of historic Labour strength,

    An interesting sub section of jobs would be creating and preserving jobs.

    There's a good chance the Tories would be seen as better at creating jobs.
    Labour would be seen as better at preserving existing jobs.
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    Has Sir John lost his marbles?
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Has Sir John lost his marbles?

    lol
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Daily Mail - Top central banker Alan Greenspan praises Osborne's austerity measures as economic recovery continues to gather speed

    "George Osborne’s economic plan won the backing of one of the biggest figures in global finance yesterday.

    Alan Greenspan, who was chairman of the US Federal Reserve for nearly 20 years, said Britain’s austerity programme is working.

    Record high levels of employment and the recent pick-up in economic output showed he was wrong to doubt the Coalition’s efforts to eradicate the deficit, he admitted.

    His comments, in an interview with the BBC, came at the start of another crucial week for the economy amid signs that the recovery is gaining momentum.

    Official figures are expected to show today that the Government borrowed less last month than in September last year.

    A separate report on Friday is likely to show economic growth in the third quarter of the year was even stronger than the 0.7 per cent clocked up in the second quarter.

    Mr Greenspan, 87, who ran the Fed from 1987 to 2006, said he was surprised the economy was managing to grow at all given the scale of cuts planned by the Chancellor.

    ‘What Britain has done with its austerity programme has worked much better than I thought it would,’ he said.

    ‘I have had discussions with George Osborne and others and as far as I can judge, it is coming out pretty much the way they had expected.’"

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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Has Sir John lost his marbles?

    What of his speech upset you ?

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 18s
    BREAKING: Sir John Major calls for George Osborne to impose a new profits tax on energy companies to help struggling consumers

    I should imagine the energy companies will foil him by refusing to make much profit.

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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 4m
    John Major has just made George Osborne cancel all his afternoon meetings. Kicked over a hornets' nest re emergency energy profits tax

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    NextNext Posts: 826
    edited October 2013

    tim said:

    Marxist Marxists everywhere

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 35s
    BREAKING: Sir John Major calls for George Osborne to impose a new profits tax on energy companies to help struggling consumers.

    LOL.

    On this,major living in the real world with the idea of switching looking sillier.

    The problem is that energy use has been seen for many years as a "bad" thing. Whether it's the petrol tax "escalator" or green taxes.

    The second problem is that all major parties have been wedded to this, so it's hard to undo. Miliband was previously happy with more and more taxes on energy.

    An extra tax or a price freeze will only hit consumers later down the the line, but if that's what the people want...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,944
    Paul Waugh: "Major says he's been told by "three senior members of the Labour party" that it will back a EU referendum. Predicts they will by 2015."
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Has Sir John lost his marbles?

    Perhaps he remembers that he lost an election to a guy promising just such a tax on the privatised utilities.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Caught ITV's The Agenda last night, Ed Miliband's energy price fix didn't fair well at all. Anthony Horowitz was as usual an interesting and well informed guest on the panel, Nick Clegg not so much last night. :)
    TGOHF said:

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 18s
    BREAKING: Sir John Major calls for George Osborne to impose a new profits tax on energy companies to help struggling consumers

    I should imagine the energy companies will foil him by refusing to make much profit.

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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    tim said:

    Paul Waugh: "Major says he's been told by "three senior members of the Labour party" that it will back a EU referendum. Predicts they will by 2015."

    I'm still offering odds, evens for my Tory chums

    You should know tim,even Yvette cooper Quoted one of your post in the commons - lol
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    Tomorrows PMQs, Miliband uses Major to whack the out of touch PM round the head repeatedly.

    What does Ed think is a fair level of profit for an energy company ?

    "Oliver Cooper ‏@OliverCooper 7m
    John Major calls for a tax on energy companies' "windfall profits". What windfall profits? Their average profit margin is under 5%."
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited October 2013
    Mike - this polling kind of sucks for me. Not the outcomes but the methodology:

    WTF does 'Best on the NHS' mean? Best at preserving the status quo? Best at serving patients' needs? Best at driving efficiency? Best at protecting the BMA? The NHS is not without huge flaws and is in need of reform - patient interest driven reform. Is the challenge not to preserve but reform the NHS? Very woolly wording.

    On jobs: Well Labour can borrow and spend and create public sector jobs with the 'best' of them. The Tories maybe represent bad news for public sector employment but much better news for employment generally. What is the question asking? Is spending money on non-jobs a good thing or a bad thing? I'd say bad. Others would say good.

    The questions should be alot sharper.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Perhaps that's what Grangemouth refinery needs - a nice profits tax to get it back in shape...........
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    tim said:

    Tomorrows PMQs, Miliband uses Major to whack the out of touch PM round the head repeatedly.

    Unless, of course, Major is trailing what may appear in Osborne's Autumn Statement.....

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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Good afternoon all and well done Sir John Major for saying it as he sees it. A remarkable man, DC and the High Command should be wheeling him out as a weapon against the empty rhetoric of the Labour front bench.

    The energy companies need a shake up and if takes an emergency tax on them to bring them to their senses, so be it. Someone should point out to all Westminster village occupants that there are large parts of the country where houses are not heated by gas or electricity. Both oil and solid fuel are prohibitively expensive.

    That brings me to Grangemouth. I wonder what Eck will do if the American owner announces tomorrow that he will only re-open the plant if the workforce becomes non-unionised and demands UNITE is sent packing.

    UNITE are calling for a new owner with a social conscience, i.e. one which will bow to demands made by UNITE and the Scottish news was reporting at lunchtime that John Swinney is casting around for someone to buy Grangemouth from INEOS.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Patrick said:

    Mike - this polling kind of sucks for me. Not the outcomes but the methodology:

    WTF does 'Best on the NHS' mean? Best at preserving the status quo? Best at serving patients' needs? Best at driving efficiency? Best at protecting the BMA? The NHS is not without huge flaws and is in need of reform - patient interest driven reform. Is the challenge not to preserve but reform the NHS? Very woolly wording.

    On jobs: Well Labour can borrow and spend and create public sector jobs with the 'best' of them. The Tories maybe represent bad news for public sector employment but much better news for employment generally. What is the question asking? Is spending money on non-jobs a good thing or a bad thing? I'd say bad. Others would say good.

    The questions should be alot sharper.

    It lets the voters decide what it is about the NHS that is most important to them that they think their chosen party is best at, rather than the opinion pollster deciding what the issue is beforehand. That has to make it more relevant.

    Where it would be interesting would be in comparing the views of specific groups of voters - which is what tim has picked up on by pointing out the views of 2010 Lib Dems who have switched to Labour.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Kirsty Buchanan ‏@KirstyBuchanan4 1m
    "I can say what I think now," says Sir John Major - and he certainly has #pressgallery #storyfest

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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    You've forgotten what majority winning positions look like after a decade of the chinless chums in charge haven't you.

    I have no interest in winning a majority based on lunatic policies. That's what Labour tries to do, and it's exactly what we should be trying to stop.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    The Labour party then run the danger of being seen as reacting to the Government's agenda, and therefore being bounced into such a pledge at the last minute. Not good politics, if they were going to back it, they should have come out and done so by now to reap any benefits. It also makes you wonder why they have not yet chosen to with the Euro's looming next year.

    Paul Waugh: "Major says he's been told by "three senior members of the Labour party" that it will back a EU referendum. Predicts they will by 2015."

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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    fitalass said:

    Daily Mail - Top central banker Alan Greenspan praises Osborne's austerity measures as economic recovery continues to gather speed

    "George Osborne’s economic plan won the backing of one of the biggest figures in global finance yesterday.

    Alan Greenspan, who was chairman of the US Federal Reserve for nearly 20 years, said Britain’s austerity programme is working.

    Record high levels of employment and the recent pick-up in economic output showed he was wrong to doubt the Coalition’s efforts to eradicate the deficit, he admitted.

    His comments, in an interview with the BBC, came at the start of another crucial week for the economy amid signs that the recovery is gaining momentum.

    Official figures are expected to show today that the Government borrowed less last month than in September last year.

    A separate report on Friday is likely to show economic growth in the third quarter of the year was even stronger than the 0.7 per cent clocked up in the second quarter.

    Mr Greenspan, 87, who ran the Fed from 1987 to 2006, said he was surprised the economy was managing to grow at all given the scale of cuts planned by the Chancellor.

    ‘What Britain has done with its austerity programme has worked much better than I thought it would,’ he said.

    ‘I have had discussions with George Osborne and others and as far as I can judge, it is coming out pretty much the way they had expected.’"

    Given how wrong Greenspan got it in the lead-up to the credit crisis, that's not necessarily quite the endorsement one might wish for.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633



    UNITE are calling for a new owner with a social conscience, i.e. one which will bow to demands made by UNITE and the Scottish news was reporting at lunchtime that John Swinney is casting around for someone to buy Grangemouth from INEOS.

    Why don't UNITE take over the running of the plant.

    Pay rises all round !
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,056
    I'd like to have a look at the 'big 6' energy companies accounts - Also 'wholesale' electricty prices...
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 3m
    Osborne was surely considering windfall tax on energy companies as a riposte to Labour. Major has destroyed element of surprise.

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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    BBC LATEST:Len Wardle, the chairman of the Co-operative Group, is to stand down next year after the mutual group lost control of its banking arm.

    Is he an ethical banker (misprint).
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    As endorsements go, its the American equivalent of Ed Balls and Gordon Brown admitting that Osborne got it right and they were wrong.
    Cyclefree said:

    fitalass said:

    Daily Mail - Top central banker Alan Greenspan praises Osborne's austerity measures as economic recovery continues to gather speed

    "George Osborne’s economic plan won the backing of one of the biggest figures in global finance yesterday.

    Alan Greenspan, who was chairman of the US Federal Reserve for nearly 20 years, said Britain’s austerity programme is working.

    Record high levels of employment and the recent pick-up in economic output showed he was wrong to doubt the Coalition’s efforts to eradicate the deficit, he admitted.

    His comments, in an interview with the BBC, came at the start of another crucial week for the economy amid signs that the recovery is gaining momentum.

    Official figures are expected to show today that the Government borrowed less last month than in September last year.

    A separate report on Friday is likely to show economic growth in the third quarter of the year was even stronger than the 0.7 per cent clocked up in the second quarter.

    Mr Greenspan, 87, who ran the Fed from 1987 to 2006, said he was surprised the economy was managing to grow at all given the scale of cuts planned by the Chancellor.

    ‘What Britain has done with its austerity programme has worked much better than I thought it would,’ he said.

    ‘I have had discussions with George Osborne and others and as far as I can judge, it is coming out pretty much the way they had expected.’"

    Given how wrong Greenspan got it in the lead-up to the credit crisis, that's not necessarily quite the endorsement one might wish for.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,944
    Major isn't letting tact get in the way of clarity:

    Conservative party "would be better off without Scotland" but UK wouldn't, Sir John Major tells #pressgallery
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    fitalass said:

    Daily Mail - Top central banker Alan Greenspan praises Osborne's austerity measures as economic recovery continues to gather speed

    "George Osborne’s economic plan won the backing of one of the biggest figures in global finance yesterday.

    Alan Greenspan, who was chairman of the US Federal Reserve for nearly 20 years, said Britain’s austerity programme is working.

    Record high levels of employment and the recent pick-up in economic output showed he was wrong to doubt the Coalition’s efforts to eradicate the deficit, he admitted.

    His comments, in an interview with the BBC, came at the start of another crucial week for the economy amid signs that the recovery is gaining momentum.

    Official figures are expected to show today that the Government borrowed less last month than in September last year.

    A separate report on Friday is likely to show economic growth in the third quarter of the year was even stronger than the 0.7 per cent clocked up in the second quarter.

    Mr Greenspan, 87, who ran the Fed from 1987 to 2006, said he was surprised the economy was managing to grow at all given the scale of cuts planned by the Chancellor.

    ‘What Britain has done with its austerity programme has worked much better than I thought it would,’ he said.

    ‘I have had discussions with George Osborne and others and as far as I can judge, it is coming out pretty much the way they had expected.’"

    Fitalass, why are you quoting this ? Do you think being endorsed by Greenspan is a positive development ? The man who didn't see the biggest credit crunch coming up !
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,267

    Good afternoon all and well done Sir John Major for saying it as he sees it. A remarkable man, DC and the High Command should be wheeling him out as a weapon against the empty rhetoric of the Labour front bench.

    The energy companies need a shake up and if takes an emergency tax on them to bring them to their senses, so be it. Someone should point out to all Westminster village occupants that there are large parts of the country where houses are not heated by gas or electricity. Both oil and solid fuel are prohibitively expensive.

    That brings me to Grangemouth. I wonder what Eck will do if the American owner announces tomorrow that he will only re-open the plant if the workforce becomes non-unionised and demands UNITE is sent packing.

    UNITE are calling for a new owner with a social conscience, i.e. one which will bow to demands made by UNITE and the Scottish news was reporting at lunchtime that John Swinney is casting around for someone to buy Grangemouth from INEOS.

    Unite have well and truly stuffed negotiations at Grangemouth , 50% already accepted and more will join as the total closure looms. Ineos are going to win big time, just a pity the workforce were stupid enough to follow unite and Labour. They will pay a heavy price.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Sir John Major sounds as though he has been having a lot of fun today. It must be great being a former Prime Minister sometimes.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:



    UNITE are calling for a new owner with a social conscience, i.e. one which will bow to demands made by UNITE and the Scottish news was reporting at lunchtime that John Swinney is casting around for someone to buy Grangemouth from INEOS.

    Why don't UNITE take over the running of the plant.

    Pay rises all round !
    You may have missed this on the previous thread

    "Given you've obviously researched this what % of the costs at Grangemouth are A.Labour costs. B.Final salary pension cost not funded by pension funds"


    A. £10M a month too high.

    B. £200M and rising.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/grangemouth-alex-salmond-in-hunt-for-buyer-1-3149580

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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,267
    fitalass said:

    The Labour party then run the danger of being seen as reacting to the Government's agenda, and therefore being bounced into such a pledge at the last minute. Not good politics, if they were going to back it, they should have come out and done so by now to reap any benefits. It also makes you wonder why they have not yet chosen to with the Euro's looming next year.

    Paul Waugh: "Major says he's been told by "three senior members of the Labour party" that it will back a EU referendum. Predicts they will by 2015."

    It is only dumb and dumber trying to outdo each other so what is the difference , Tories and Labour are just 2 cheeks of the same arse.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Brendan Miller @Brendan__Miller
    #bbcqt panel this Thursday: @trussliz @CarolineFlintMP @timfarron @OwenJones84 and Peter Hitchens (@ClarkeMicah)
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,267
    fitalass said:

    As endorsements go, its the American equivalent of Ed Balls and Gordon Brown admitting that Osborne got it right and they were wrong.

    Cyclefree said:

    fitalass said:

    Daily Mail - Top central banker Alan Greenspan praises Osborne's austerity measures as economic recovery continues to gather speed

    "George Osborne’s economic plan won the backing of one of the biggest figures in global finance yesterday.

    Alan Greenspan, who was chairman of the US Federal Reserve for nearly 20 years, said Britain’s austerity programme is working.

    Record high levels of employment and the recent pick-up in economic output showed he was wrong to doubt the Coalition’s efforts to eradicate the deficit, he admitted.

    His comments, in an interview with the BBC, came at the start of another crucial week for the economy amid signs that the recovery is gaining momentum.

    Official figures are expected to show today that the Government borrowed less last month than in September last year.

    A separate report on Friday is likely to show economic growth in the third quarter of the year was even stronger than the 0.7 per cent clocked up in the second quarter.

    Mr Greenspan, 87, who ran the Fed from 1987 to 2006, said he was surprised the economy was managing to grow at all given the scale of cuts planned by the Chancellor.

    ‘What Britain has done with its austerity programme has worked much better than I thought it would,’ he said.

    ‘I have had discussions with George Osborne and others and as far as I can judge, it is coming out pretty much the way they had expected.’"

    Given how wrong Greenspan got it in the lead-up to the credit crisis, that's not necessarily quite the endorsement one might wish for.

    Failed American praises useless Tory , huzzah all is well in the UK
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,267
    antifrank said:

    Sir John Major sounds as though he has been having a lot of fun today. It must be great being a former Prime Minister sometimes.

    Must have been a good lunch
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,614
    Greenspan was on R4 yesterday being interviewed by Evan Davies. I think I feel a book coming on.

    Seemed quite spritely for his very considerable age but not particularly convincing on dealing with bubbles. He was quick to correct Evan and point out that the wheels came off 3 years after he stood down not 2 but that was really the case for the defence.

    At least he is still willing to look at the facts rather than simply espouse his own prejudices.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Plato said:

    Brendan Miller @Brendan__Miller
    #bbcqt panel this Thursday: @trussliz @CarolineFlintMP @timfarron @OwenJones84 and Peter Hitchens (@ClarkeMicah)

    Empty vessels - will they actually listen to each other or just have a who can yell the loudest contest.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited October 2013
    malcolmg said:

    antifrank said:

    Sir John Major sounds as though he has been having a lot of fun today. It must be great being a former Prime Minister sometimes.

    Tim Shipman (Mail) ‏@ShippersUnbound 4m
    John Major in summary: Tories should have a heart. Eurosceptics are still wrong and still bastards. Energy companies deserve a windfall

    He must have ;-)

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,209
    edited October 2013
    malcolmg said:

    It is only dumb and dumber trying to outdo each other so what is the difference , Tories and Labour are just 2 cheeks of the same arse.

    That doesn't make the centre ground of politics an enticing location to be....

    EDIT: But it does explain Nick Clegg...!

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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    tim said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tim said:

    Tomorrows PMQs, Miliband uses Major to whack the out of touch PM round the head repeatedly.

    Unless, of course, Major is trailing what may appear in Osborne's Autumn Statement.....

    Well if Osborne was considering it it'll look even more reactive now.

    Indeed. I think the Tories undestimate how infuriated people are by the energy companies. My husband, who has no time at all for Labour (or the Tories, for that matter), would happily see the Chief Executives of all the energy companies hung, drawn and quartered.......

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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    malcolmg said:

    It is only dumb and dumber trying to outdo each other so what is the difference , Tories and Labour are just 2 cheeks of the same arse.

    That doesn't make the centre ground of politics an enticing location to be....

    I thought that's where the lib dems are positioned ;-)
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I can barely breath in for laughing - oh my aching sides - ouch

    RT @JihadWidow: I have been told twitter likes cat pics. Here is mine. Ally Ackbar!

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BXLqI2yCYAE9eeF.jpg:large
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,614
    edited October 2013
    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:



    UNITE are calling for a new owner with a social conscience, i.e. one which will bow to demands made by UNITE and the Scottish news was reporting at lunchtime that John Swinney is casting around for someone to buy Grangemouth from INEOS.

    Why don't UNITE take over the running of the plant.

    Pay rises all round !
    You may have missed this on the previous thread

    "Given you've obviously researched this what % of the costs at Grangemouth are A.Labour costs. B.Final salary pension cost not funded by pension funds"


    A. £10M a month too high.

    B. £200M and rising.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/grangemouth-alex-salmond-in-hunt-for-buyer-1-3149580

    These are both major problems, hence the condition of closing the final salary pension scheme and the changes in conditions, but they are not the problem.

    The problem is that the feed stock from the North sea is running out and the site needs to substantially improve it's harbour access to obtain more base material to work the site at anything like full capacity. There has to be an economic case for that capital investment and at the moment there simply isn't.

    Without the new investment the site will die. It does not look good. A government that had Scotland's interests at heart would be moving heaven and earth to involve Westminster on this and try to find a way to subsidise the capital needs without falling foul of EU law. But I can't see that happening either.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,944
    Oborne:

    "Revenge, they say, is a dish best eaten cold. Sir John Major has waited a very long time – 20 years to be precise. And he has chosen to eat it in the press gallery dining room.

    Back in 1993 Iain Duncan Smith led the opposition to John Major over Maastricht. Over the gallery lunch today Mr Major led the opposition to Iain Duncan Smith over welfare reform: "Unless Iain Duncan Smith is very lucky, which he may not be, or a genius, which is unproven, he may get some of it wrong."

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100242545/sir-john-major-boosts-ed-miliband-and-undermines-his-old-enemy-iain-duncan-smith-this-is-what-revenge-looks-like/

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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited October 2013
    I thought it quite significant that John Swinney was keen to emphasis that the Scottish Government was now working in partnership with the Westminster Government to find a solution to the dispute on Scotland Tonight last night. But the sheer extent to which relations have now broken down between INEOS and Unite has to be the biggest stumbling block to finding a workable solution at Grangemouth? Neither appear prepared to back down, no matter how high the stakes.
    DavidL said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:



    UNITE are calling for a new owner with a social conscience, i.e. one which will bow to demands made by UNITE and the Scottish news was reporting at lunchtime that John Swinney is casting around for someone to buy Grangemouth from INEOS.

    Why don't UNITE take over the running of the plant.

    Pay rises all round !
    You may have missed this on the previous thread

    "Given you've obviously researched this what % of the costs at Grangemouth are A.Labour costs. B.Final salary pension cost not funded by pension funds"


    A. £10M a month too high.

    B. £200M and rising.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/grangemouth-alex-salmond-in-hunt-for-buyer-1-3149580

    These are both major problems, hence the condition of closing the final salary pension scheme and the changes in conditions, but they are not the problem.

    The problem is that the feed stock from the North sea is running out and the site needs to substantially improve it's harbour access to obtain more base material to work the site at anything like full capacity. There has to be an economic case for that capital investment and at the moment there simply isn't.

    Without the new investment the site will die. It does not look good. A government that had Scotland's interests at heart would be moving heaven and earth to involve Westminster on this and try to find a way to subsidise the capital needs without falling foul of EU law. But I can't see that happening either.

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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Labour must surely be disappointed to not be doing better on jobs. If the recovery does get/continue going to the election then (essentially) "the wrong sort of recovery" is going to be the natural Labour line - benefitting the rich, too few jobs, that sort of thing.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    naked sun worshiping councillor steps down.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-24622478
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    “YouGov best party on specific issues tracker”

    The LDs appear to be well down in third place on all major issues - except when beaten into fourth place by the ‘others’..!

    Time to upgrade ‘dog-poo’ to major status, me thinks.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,944
    Classic Major: "John Major: Calling my colleagues bastards was absolutely unforgivable and my only excuse is it was true."
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Priceless!

    Classic Major: "John Major: Calling my colleagues bastards was absolutely unforgivable and my only excuse is it was true."

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,944
    edited October 2013
    Major's Energy Windfall tax hitting the news:

    Sir John Major calls for windfall tax on energy profits

    Sir John said the government should act if firms asked for unjustified price rises

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24621391#TWEET931203

    What are the odds its leads @6?
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited October 2013
    The problem with arguing that Labour has a lead on issues such as jobs and living standards when the Tories have a lead on the economy is that jobs and living standards are dependent on the economy.

    Sustainable improvements in living standards and reductions in unemployment cannot happen independently of fixing the economy (defining the 'economy' simplistically as growth).

    Of course this economic truth may not translate into popular perception. Voters may believe that unemployment can be reduced and living standards improved without the economy being managed competently.

    But to accept such perceptions at face value implies the assumption that voters are ignorant of the facts. This would be unwise.

    The inconsistency of a Tory lead on the economy with a Labour lead on unemployment more likely results from different perceptions about the nature of the tasks associated with each issue. Fixing the economy may be seen as a 'hard task', involving cuts and tax rises and reductions in services, whereas fixing 'jobs' may be seen more as a 'soft task' caring for the jobless, the vulnerable and disadvantaged.

    It may well be that Labour scores highly on tasks requiring a soft, caring approach whereas the Tories do better when a tough approach is needed. So the fact that the Tories are rated higher on the economy and Labour on jobs may simply reflect public perceptions about the best approach to solving each type of problem.

    If this is the case then there will be not only a prioritised list of issues in the public's mind but a hierarchy of approaches. In economic downtimes, a 'hard' approach may be perceived as being more effective and necessary than a 'soft' approach. A voter might feel that Labour would be better than the Tories in dealing with the unemployed but that the economy needs fixing first making a Conservative or Coalition government overall the better of the two options.

    It would be interesting to see some pollsters getting respondents to rank not only issues on salience but their attitudes to the differing types of approach to problem solving and to see whether certain issues are dependent on others..
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,944
    Either encouraging or pre-emptive blame shifting.....it is in both's interests to see Grangemouth get onto a sustainable basis....
    fitalass said:

    I thought it quite significant that John Swinney was keen to emphasis that the Scottish Government was now working in partnership with the Westminster Government to find a solution to the dispute on Scotland Tonight last night.

    DavidL said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:



    UNITE are calling for a new owner with a social conscience, i.e. one which will bow to demands made by UNITE and the Scottish news was reporting at lunchtime that John Swinney is casting around for someone to buy Grangemouth from INEOS.

    Why don't UNITE take over the running of the plant.

    Pay rises all round !
    You may have missed this on the previous thread

    "Given you've obviously researched this what % of the costs at Grangemouth are A.Labour costs. B.Final salary pension cost not funded by pension funds"


    A. £10M a month too high.

    B. £200M and rising.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/grangemouth-alex-salmond-in-hunt-for-buyer-1-3149580

    These are both major problems, hence the condition of closing the final salary pension scheme and the changes in conditions, but they are not the problem.

    The problem is that the feed stock from the North sea is running out and the site needs to substantially improve it's harbour access to obtain more base material to work the site at anything like full capacity. There has to be an economic case for that capital investment and at the moment there simply isn't.

    Without the new investment the site will die. It does not look good. A government that had Scotland's interests at heart would be moving heaven and earth to involve Westminster on this and try to find a way to subsidise the capital needs without falling foul of EU law. But I can't see that happening either.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,056
    SSE: Plenty of impairment (£557m) , Group Equity going up by £964m with a company profit of £489m. £717m of divis !

    Nothing like getting plenty of impairment in on a good year ;) - especially with the falling corp tax.

    Still at least its a British company, seems 4 out of the 6 are actually spanish , french and 2 german :/
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    DavidL said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:



    UNITE are calling for a new owner with a social conscience, i.e. one which will bow to demands made by UNITE and the Scottish news was reporting at lunchtime that John Swinney is casting around for someone to buy Grangemouth from INEOS.

    Why don't UNITE take over the running of the plant.

    Pay rises all round !
    You may have missed this on the previous thread

    "Given you've obviously researched this what % of the costs at Grangemouth are A.Labour costs. B.Final salary pension cost not funded by pension funds"


    A. £10M a month too high.

    B. £200M and rising.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/grangemouth-alex-salmond-in-hunt-for-buyer-1-3149580

    These are both major problems, hence the condition of closing the final salary pension scheme and the changes in conditions, but they are not the problem.

    The problem is that the feed stock from the North sea is running out and the site needs to substantially improve it's harbour access to obtain more base material to work the site at anything like full capacity. There has to be an economic case for that capital investment and at the moment there simply isn't.

    Without the new investment the site will die. It does not look good. A government that had Scotland's interests at heart would be moving heaven and earth to involve Westminster on this and try to find a way to subsidise the capital needs without falling foul of EU law. But I can't see that happening either.

    Correct - £10M a month in salary savings is not feasible from 1,500 workers - as smarter trolls would have noticed :)

    So they need to increase revenue too.

    Good news for Salmond is that it prob wont close before next Sept.

    However for an "oil rich" nation to have to import 80% of it's petrol is embarrassing at best.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,944
    "Introducing facts into the immigration debate is like teaching a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."

    http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2013/10/intellectuals-in-politics.html
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    Absolutely. Bernard Ponsonby was reporting that Alex Salmond's Office has been turned into a branch of ACAS over the last week, but apparently with little success.....

    Either encouraging or pre-emptive blame shifting.....it is in both's interests to see Grangemouth get onto a sustainable basis....

    fitalass said:

    I thought it quite significant that John Swinney was keen to emphasis that the Scottish Government was now working in partnership with the Westminster Government to find a solution to the dispute on Scotland Tonight last night.

    DavidL said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:



    UNITE are calling for a new owner with a social conscience, i.e. one which will bow to demands made by UNITE and the Scottish news was reporting at lunchtime that John Swinney is casting around for someone to buy Grangemouth from INEOS.

    Why don't UNITE take over the running of the plant.

    Pay rises all round !
    You may have missed this on the previous thread

    "Given you've obviously researched this what % of the costs at Grangemouth are A.Labour costs. B.Final salary pension cost not funded by pension funds"


    A. £10M a month too high.

    B. £200M and rising.

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/grangemouth-alex-salmond-in-hunt-for-buyer-1-3149580

    These are both major problems, hence the condition of closing the final salary pension scheme and the changes in conditions, but they are not the problem.

    The problem is that the feed stock from the North sea is running out and the site needs to substantially improve it's harbour access to obtain more base material to work the site at anything like full capacity. There has to be an economic case for that capital investment and at the moment there simply isn't.

    Without the new investment the site will die. It does not look good. A government that had Scotland's interests at heart would be moving heaven and earth to involve Westminster on this and try to find a way to subsidise the capital needs without falling foul of EU law. But I can't see that happening either.

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,209
    tim - so if you are enjoying IDS being outed as not clever enough, presumably you are siding with Osborne who wanted him out?

    What interesting bedfellows you make....
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    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Are the vans now available for hire?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    tim - so if you are enjoying IDS being outed as not clever enough, presumably you are siding with Osborne who wanted him out?

    What interesting bedfellows you make....

    I think we have all noticed that tim is losing the plot - must be the good economic news.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,944
    "Operator Ineos will tell workers at 10 a.m. (0900 GMT) on Wednesday if the Grangemouth oil refinery in Scotland will close down permanently, it said in a statement."

    http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/10/22/scotland-refinery-announcement-idINL5N0IC20S20131022

    Given INEOS track, I'd guess 'closure'......
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    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    tim said:

    Marxist Marxists everywhere

    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 35s
    BREAKING: Sir John Major calls for George Osborne to impose a new profits tax on energy companies to help struggling consumers.

    LOL.

    We are all Marxists now, comrade.
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    Bobajob said:

    Are the vans now available for hire?

    Yes, you apply on-line via the government gateway, once you've been sent your password.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Jezza comes out swinging

    Jeremy Hunt @Jeremy_Hunt
    Need to know will Lab vote to raise 500m 4 NHS from overseas visitors; is it 'diversionary', 'xenophobic' or fairness for British taxpayers?
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Bobajob said:

    Are the vans now available for hire?

    Are you planning a house move to Bumpkinshire?

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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    Interesting snippet from the Culture Committee evidence as we've often chewed it over without knowing for sure:

    Hall revealed the make-up of the audience for Question Time. It was 30% Conservative supporters, 30% Labour supporters, 10% Lib Dems, 10% Ukip or another minor party, 5% others and 15% don't knows, he said.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,944
    edited October 2013
    IF Grangemouth closes, it will be interesting to see if either the SNP or Labour attempt to make political capital out of it in the Dunfermline bye-election

    When MG Rover closed in the run up to the 2005 GE, Con & Labour treated it as a 'natural disaster' and neither side sought to apportion blame...
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    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Always had a soft spot for Major - a much underestimated politician IMO who defied political gravity to win in 1992 and then got five years of futile badger baiting from the frothing Tory right for his troubles. A cricket fan and a decent human being - sounds like good stuff from the old campaigner today.
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    R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391
    Major's speech has highlighted something about the modern Tory Party that has puzzled me for a while. Just when, and why, did they become so ideological, Rightwing, and - frankly - downright unpleasant?

    A successful modern Tory Party should surely be, excuse the phrase, One Nation? Broadly liberal and inclusive, supportive of small business and community enterprise, of individual endevour but finding ways to give the hard-pressed a leg up, champions of efficient free markets but not afraid to intervene, suspicious of but not outright hostile to the power of the State as force for good, etc.

    Instead we have the current crop sticking up for a rotten little clutch of massive energy companies, consistently demonising or at best dismissing those in poverty or unemployment, attacking charities and trade unions, doing fiscal favours for millionaires and big business, farming out chunks of our NHS to big business. Go home vans....go home vans!

    It's baffling, because the centre is where the votes are. Instead, their wait for a majority looks like extending to 28 years at least. Cameron's detox PR was briefly promising, but never had any substance. Instead they seem wedded to a warped, corporatist ultra-Thatcherite ideology.

    Sir John gave a glimpse of a Tory Party I could almost vote for. Hard-nosed and pragmatic, but not the Nasty Party it has once again become.

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    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Oborne:

    "Revenge, they say, is a dish best eaten cold. Sir John Major has waited a very long time – 20 years to be precise. And he has chosen to eat it in the press gallery dining room.

    Back in 1993 Iain Duncan Smith led the opposition to John Major over Maastricht. Over the gallery lunch today Mr Major led the opposition to Iain Duncan Smith over welfare reform: "Unless Iain Duncan Smith is very lucky, which he may not be, or a genius, which is unproven, he may get some of it wrong."

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100242545/sir-john-major-boosts-ed-miliband-and-undermines-his-old-enemy-iain-duncan-smith-this-is-what-revenge-looks-like/

    Served cold, not eaten.
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    This could be a very interesting week indeed.

    Grangemouth could become the new Polmaise where the only thing the trade unions achieved was the closure of the plant and total job losses for all concerned.

    The new owners of the Coop Bank could call in Ed and Ed and ask how they intend to repay their indebtedness, failing which call in Labour's overdraft and borrowings.

    Ed and Ed could have an interesting time on Friday explaining how the UK economy is stagnating.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,944
    Bobajob said:

    Always had a soft spot for Major

    I saw him speak at a dinner once - much more impressive in person than on the TV - he was also very clear eyed about the Euro - 'Helmut' saw it as a way of anchoring Eastern Europe into the West, while 'Mitterand' wanted a seat on the board of the Bundesbank.....it was transparent what he thought of their respective motives.....

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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    I assume we are in for lots of outlier polls in the next couple of weeks. Should be fun watching everyone argue over whether something is margin of error or more significant while the wider population get their priorities right with Halloween, Guy Fawkes, Strictly and X Factor.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    This could be a very interesting week indeed.

    Grangemouth could become the new Polmaise where the only thing the trade unions achieved was the closure of the plant and total job losses for all concerned.

    The new owners of the Coop Bank could call in Ed and Ed and ask how they intend to repay their indebtedness, failing which call in Labour's overdraft and borrowings.

    Ed and Ed could have an interesting time on Friday explaining how the UK economy is stagnating.

    Ed could be in for an interesting time, explaining how his Unite 'bosses' have managed to force the closure of a major piece of energy infrastucture.
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    A dose of reality for Kippers and BOOers from Hugo Dixon:

    http://blogs.reuters.com/hugo-dixon/2013/10/21/brexit-process-would-be-messy/

    Not that they'll listen.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,944

    This could be a very interesting week indeed.

    Grangemouth could become the new Polmaise where the only thing the trade unions achieved was the closure of the plant and total job losses for all concerned.

    The new owners of the Coop Bank could call in Ed and Ed and ask how they intend to repay their indebtedness, failing which call in Labour's overdraft and borrowings.

    Ed and Ed could have an interesting time on Friday explaining how the UK economy is stagnating.

    Ed could be in for an interesting time, explaining how his Unite 'bosses' have managed to force the closure of a major piece of energy infrastucture.
    The announcement is two hours before PMQs.....

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    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Bobajob said:

    Are the vans now available for hire?

    Yes, you apply on-line via the government gateway, once you've been sent your password.
    Splendid news. I shall look forward to taking them for a spin some time in 2015, after I have been fined and locked up.

    Bobajob said:

    Are the vans now available for hire?

    Are you planning a house move to Bumpkinshire?

    No - I need to smuggle in some immigrants to boost the Labour vote in my Tory suburb.

This discussion has been closed.