Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed
Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed Nothing has changed
She will say nothing has changed but I understand the backstop concerns and for that reason I will go back to the EU and they will be nice and write a three page addendum on page 586 of the WA which will clarify that the backstop remains as is but they will add some old bollocks which will sound vaguely conciliatory and which I will then hold a press conference about and proclaim victory and then I'll have the vote.
So far so good - we just await the some old bollocks bit.
This surely isn't the sort of statement that will be enough when your back's against the wall, as May is? Cameron always excelled in a crisis (until 2016 at least)
Just can't see who will be inspired by this. Delay, renegotiate, follow me just because etc etc
TMay is actually handling this total humiliation quite well.
She's hated from all sides because she's right.
As with BBC bias when both sides are claiming it, there probably is none.
Those on the fringes won't like it but she's right to try and seek concessions/confirm the language and then go through with the vote. A compromise it might be but it's the best result for the country.
Anybody with any political nous would have known they would be right here, right now if they presented May's deal to the House. Why she has persisted for so long will be a fascinating part of the diaries no doubt being assiduously written up nightly.
I very much doubt that we will ever see May's memoirs published. For the same reason that we will never see Cameron's - there is absolutely no way that they could justify their actions which in hindsight will be seen to be the most crass misjudgements in modern political history.
Anybody with any political nous would have known they would be right here, right now if they presented May's deal to the House. Why she has persisted for so long will be a fascinating part of the diaries no doubt being assiduously written up nightly.
I very much doubt that we will ever see May's memoirs published. For the same reason that we will never see Cameron's - there is absolutely no way that they could justify their actions which in hindsight will be seen to be the most crass misjudgements in modern political history.
I think we will, "A Journey" sold reasonably well...
The twats are interrupting the outside broadcasts again. Haven't they got jobs to go to, kids to pick up from school etc etc etc?
It’s called democracy. The networks have no more right to be there than they do. Let them broadcast from a studio if the snowflakes can’t take a bit of heckling.
The twats are interrupting the outside broadcasts again. Haven't they got jobs to go to, kids to pick up from school etc etc etc?
It’s called democracy. The networks have no more right to be there than they do. Let them broadcast from a studio if the snowflakes can’t take a bit of heckling.
Just spotted this YouGov questions and answer in the results page. Exercise for the reader to add the categories up as they see fit
1. The European Court of Justice has ruled the UK can cancel Brexit without the permission of the other member states. Imagine that the government did cancel Brexit, and Britain remained a member of the EU. How would you mostly feel? Delighted 23% Pleased 7% Relieved 13% Wouldn't mind either way 8% Disappointed 8% Angry 6% Betrayed 24%
The government's defeat in the vote is already built into the narrative. The WA will be defeated but Mrs May will already be on a plane on her way to seeking concessions. All the next 24 hours is about is politicians impotently strutting their self-importance.
The twats are interrupting the outside broadcasts again. Haven't they got jobs to go to, kids to pick up from school etc etc etc?
It’s called democracy. The networks have no more right to be there than they do. Let them broadcast from a studio if the snowflakes can’t take a bit of heckling.
It's called bad manners.
Believe me, journalists have no right on god’s green earth to accuse others of bad manners. Bring on the protesters, they add to the gaiety of the nation. And anything that can drown out the inane ramblings of Laura K is to be actively encouraged.
Just spotted this YouGov questions and answer in the results page. Exercise for the reader to add the categories up as they see fit
1. The European Court of Justice has ruled the UK can cancel Brexit without the permission of the other member states. Imagine that the government did cancel Brexit, and Britain remained a member of the EU. How would you mostly feel? Delighted 23% Pleased 7% Relieved 13% Wouldn't mind either way 8% Disappointed 8% Angry 6% Betrayed 24%
Only 30% angry or betrayed. Go for it!
MPs expenses should be remembered in the context of public anger. It was a lot worse than 30%! On the same subject the issue and anger has dissipated over time. So, I agree retract Article 50 and stop this madness.
If Bercow is going to call every backbencher who wants to speak presumably Leadsom's statement won't be for hours.
While he is an annoying and pompous blob of humanity, I think he is right in this instance. From both a moral perspective as well as a technical perspective regarding parliamentary procedure.
Just spotted this YouGov questions and answer in the results page. Exercise for the reader to add the categories up as they see fit
1. The European Court of Justice has ruled the UK can cancel Brexit without the permission of the other member states. Imagine that the government did cancel Brexit, and Britain remained a member of the EU. How would you mostly feel? Delighted 23% Pleased 7% Relieved 13% Wouldn't mind either way 8% Disappointed 8% Angry 6% Betrayed 24%
Only 30% angry or betrayed. Go for it!
MPs expenses should be remembered in the context of public anger. It was a lot worse than 30%! On the same subject the issue and anger has dissipated over time. So, I agree retract Article 50 and stop this madness.
We didn't previously have a 6 month referendum campaign on MPs expenses.
If you want Farage and Nu-kip to make a comeback carry right on.
The government's defeat in the vote is already built into the narrative. The WA will be defeated but Mrs May will already be on a plane on her way to seeking concessions. All the next 24 hours is about is politicians impotently strutting their self-importance.
The whole 'meaningful vote' has been about MPs trying to pretend that they aren't impotent and has been an opportunity for them to posture, preen and act like infants.
There is no realistic prospect of a 'better deal' - particularly as no-one can actually say what that 'better' would actually mean.
Only a small minority want 'no deal' - so what other options exist? None.
If Bercow is going to call every backbencher who wants to speak presumably Leadsom's statement won't be for hours.
Guessing that Stephen Barclay will be punted into the early hours - again! Reckon he hadn't realised that joining the cabinet meant taking the night shift.
Just spotted this YouGov questions and answer in the results page. Exercise for the reader to add the categories up as they see fit
1. The European Court of Justice has ruled the UK can cancel Brexit without the permission of the other member states. Imagine that the government did cancel Brexit, and Britain remained a member of the EU. How would you mostly feel? Delighted 23% Pleased 7% Relieved 13% Wouldn't mind either way 8% Disappointed 8% Angry 6% Betrayed 24%
Only 30% angry or betrayed. Go for it!
MPs expenses should be remembered in the context of public anger. It was a lot worse than 30%! On the same subject the issue and anger has dissipated over time. So, I agree retract Article 50 and stop this madness.
We didn't previously have a 6 month referendum campaign on MPs expenses.
If you want Farage and Nu-kip to make a comeback carry right on.
I think you make the same mistake as did the Tories in 2017, that the 52% will vote for one party. A new party will have few Cllrs and probably no MPs. Farage wants a hard Brexit, I cannot believe sufficient people want to elect a party to represent them who want to deliberately and wilfully wreck the UK economy. Given the dire prospects of continuing with Brexit with no deal, I think ending Brexit is the rational choice before the country. MP expenses as an issue was absolutely terrible and I look back to how members of the public held anything political with contempt when canvassing people. No Brexit would fade as an issue, particularly if demographics are culling those who most vehemently oppose it!
Anecdote alert - acquaintance of mine opines that brexit is a terrible idea which no one even wanted in the first place so it should be cancelled tomorrow. Good to see the debate is not still boiled down to simple answers.
Remainer maths: 52% = "no-one".
Now, if he meant "no-one in my immediate circle of Facebook friends. All five of them." he might not have appeared such a pillock.
Possibly an age thing? The Will of the Pensioners is a more accurate description of those who voted for Brexit - the workers never wanted it.
Really - are you so very sure of that?
Let me save you time, no you are not sure because plenty of workers did and do still want it.
Even some very young workers in my place voted to leave.
Yes quite sure - the polling was overwhelmingly clear and the age divide remains. For example YouGov the week after the referendum
Of course there were plenty of workers and young people who supported Brexit and senior citizens who did not; but they were not in the majority.
I'm really just trolling the 'Will of the People' phrase - clearly hit a nerve!
One in three BAME voters who voted voted for Leave. Leave wouldn't have won without their votes. My Cambodian-Canadian girlfriend voted to Leave. Your smearing of Leave voters as racist is unpleasant and you need to grow up.
No, not all Leave voters are racist, but a lot certainly are, and having spoken to quite a few I doubt they would come through a polygraph test on racism very easily. Not all are completely stupid, but not many I have met will be qualifying for MENSA.
I imagine that few people would qualify for MENSA, and don't think it signifies anything.
Some Leave voters are indeed racist, but so are some Remain voters. There has always been a strand of fascism that is strongly pro a United Europe (eg Sir Oswald Mosley).
There have at various times been UK fascist parties in favour of a united & fascist Europe. There isn't one currently, and hasn't been for some time. Still, I daresay some of these yaks are looking at AFD, Orban, Le Pen etc and feeling all warm & fraternal.
Just spotted this YouGov questions and answer in the results page. Exercise for the reader to add the categories up as they see fit
1. The European Court of Justice has ruled the UK can cancel Brexit without the permission of the other member states. Imagine that the government did cancel Brexit, and Britain remained a member of the EU. How would you mostly feel? Delighted 23% Pleased 7% Relieved 13% Wouldn't mind either way 8% Disappointed 8% Angry 6% Betrayed 24%
Only 30% angry or betrayed. Go for it!
MPs expenses should be remembered in the context of public anger. It was a lot worse than 30%! On the same subject the issue and anger has dissipated over time. So, I agree retract Article 50 and stop this madness.
Perhaps, but that doesn't measure strength of feeling. Cancelling Brexit will not resolve the issues that led to it (on the contrary, the EU is likely to feel reassured that when put to the test, countries will stay, and that the general course of The Project is still fine). It would, however, almost certainly mean that the most potent voice on the right-of-centre would be a radical/populist one, whether that be a Tory Party led by an out-and-out Brexiteer, or a UKIP2.
Anecdote alert - acquaintance of mine opines that brexit is a terrible idea which no one even wanted in the first place so it should be cancelled tomorrow. Good to see the debate is not still boiled down to simple answers.
Remainer maths: 52% = "no-one".
Now, if he meant "no-one in my immediate circle of Facebook friends. All five of them." he might not have appeared such a pillock.
Possibly an age thing? The Will of the Pensioners is a more accurate description of those who voted for Brexit - the workers never wanted it.
Really - are you so very sure of that?
Let me save you time, no you are not sure because plenty of workers did and do still want it.
Even some very young workers in my place voted to leave.
Yes quite sure - the polling was overwhelmingly clear and the age divide remains. For example YouGov the week after the referendum
Of course there were plenty of workers and young people who supported Brexit and senior citizens who did not; but they were not in the majority.
I'm really just trolling the 'Will of the People' phrase - clearly hit a nerve!
One in three BAME voters who voted voted for Leave. Leave wouldn't have won without their votes. My Cambodian-Canadian girlfriend voted to Leave. Your smearing of Leave voters as racist is unpleasant and you need to grow up.
No, not all Leave voters are racist, but a lot certainly are, and having spoken to quite a few I doubt they would come through a polygraph test on racism very easily. Not all are completely stupid, but not many I have met will be qualifying for MENSA.
I imagine that few people would qualify for MENSA, and don't think it signifies anything.
Some Leave voters are indeed racist, but so are some Remain voters. There has always been a strand of fascism that is strongly pro a United Europe (eg Sir Oswald Mosley).
There have at various times been UK fascist parties in favour of a united & fascist Europe. There isn't one currently, and hasn't been for some time. Still, I daresay some of these yaks are looking at AFD, Orban, Le Pen etc and feeling all warm & fraternal.
Generation Identity banners were aplenty on yesterday's demo. They describe themselves as "pan-European".
Mrs M calling on some MPs to be honest that they want a second referendum. But why would anyone vote in one it? Seriously? If they won't implement the result unless THEY like it, there's surely no point at all They promised to implement this one but they had their fingers crossed firmly behind their backs.
I would give up on democracy if that happened. At my age, it would only mean as much tax avoidance as possible (not that I pay a lot), insulting any canvasser who comes to my door, and voting for Joe Stalin or Adolf Hitler. Rage, rage against the dying of the democratic light.
Anecdote alert - acquaintance of mine opines that brexit is a terrible idea which no one even wanted in the first place so it should be cancelled tomorrow. Good to see the debate is not still boiled down to simple answers.
Remainer maths: 52% = "no-one".
Now, if he meant "no-one in my immediate circle of Facebook friends. All five of them." he might not have appeared such a pillock.
Possibly an age thing? The Will of the Pensioners is a more accurate description of those who voted for Brexit - the workers never wanted it.
Really - are you so very sure of that?
Let me save you time, no you are not sure because plenty of workers did and do still want it.
Even some very young workers in my place voted to leave.
Yes quite sure - the polling was overwhelmingly clear and the age divide remains. For example YouGov the week after the referendum
Of course there were plenty of workers and young people who supported Brexit and senior citizens who did not; but they were not in the majority.
I'm really just trolling the 'Will of the People' phrase - clearly hit a nerve!
One in three BAME voters who voted voted for Leave. Leave wouldn't have won without their votes. My Cambodian-Canadian girlfriend voted to Leave. Your smearing of Leave voters as racist is unpleasant and you need to grow up.
No, not all Leave voters are racist, but a lot certainly are, and having spoken to quite a few I doubt they would come through a polygraph test on racism very easily. Not all are completely stupid, but not many I have met will be qualifying for MENSA.
I imagine that few people would qualify for MENSA, and don't think it signifies anything.
Some Leave voters are indeed racist, but so are some Remain voters. There has always been a strand of fascism that is strongly pro a United Europe (eg Sir Oswald Mosley).
There have at various times been UK fascist parties in favour of a united & fascist Europe. There isn't one currently, and hasn't been for some time. Still, I daresay some of these yaks are looking at AFD, Orban, Le Pen etc and feeling all warm & fraternal.
Generation Identity banners were aplenty on yesterday's demo. They describe themselves as "pan-European".
Comments
Surely at least for cosmetic reasons the word backstop should be dropped.
She will say nothing has changed but I understand the backstop concerns and for that reason I will go back to the EU and they will be nice and write a three page addendum on page 586 of the WA which will clarify that the backstop remains as is but they will add some old bollocks which will sound vaguely conciliatory and which I will then hold a press conference about and proclaim victory and then I'll have the vote.
So far so good - we just await the some old bollocks bit.
Just can't see who will be inspired by this. Delay, renegotiate, follow me just because etc etc
Anyone would have thought leaving the EU would have consequences....
The latter means that his claim to be able to renegotiate is utterly meaningless.
A decent LOTO could have ripped this apart. Corbyn is stumbling.
Get those letters in, Tory back-benchers...
The same as when Lab criticises the Cons for not spending enough and at the same time for not bringing down the deficit quickly enough.
either
I'm puzzled by Andrew Adonis' assertion
or
I'm puzzled by Andrew Adonis'
Bercow telling May she cannot withdaraw the motion without winning an adjournment division or being discourteous to the House
TROLOLOLOLOLO
The government's defeat in the vote is already built into the narrative. The WA will be defeated but Mrs May will already be on a plane on her way to seeking concessions. All the next 24 hours is about is politicians impotently strutting their self-importance.
Betfair has under 200 MPs backing the deal as the favourite option, now just 2.7 with 4 available as a lay.
On Betfair, the referendum is 1.83 No, 2.04 yes (in 2019).
If you want Farage and Nu-kip to make a comeback carry right on.
There is no realistic prospect of a 'better deal' - particularly as no-one can actually say what that 'better' would actually mean.
Only a small minority want 'no deal' - so what other options exist? None.
blunder
breakdown
debacle
disaster
embarrassment
failure
farce
flap
flop
mess
stunt
washout
abortion
error
miscarriage
route
ruin
screwup
botched situation
dumb thing to do
dumb trick
Vince putting Corby on the spot
Are you married to CatWoman?
Assurances won't cut it.
Graeme Wearden
Graeme Wearden
Sterling has suffered a sharp selloff since Theresa May began giving her statement.
The pound has just a 20-month low against the US dollar at $1.2524, down two cents today - a substantial swing.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/dec/10/brexit-deal-vote-latest-theresa-may-ecj-government-says-ecj-ruling-irrelevant-because-uk-leaving-eu-anyway-politics-live?page=with:block-5c0e8ea7e4b0b950d12fa27a#block-5c0e8ea7e4b0b950d12fa27a
I would give up on democracy if that happened. At my age, it would only mean as much tax avoidance as possible (not that I pay a lot), insulting any canvasser who comes to my door, and voting for Joe Stalin or Adolf Hitler. Rage, rage against the dying of the democratic light.