Who exactly will tomorrow's motion assert should be held in contempt of the Commons - the Government or the Attorney General?
The opposition leaders requested a motion holding the Government to be in contempt.
Reports of Bercow's response describe him as finding that there is an arguable case "that a contempt has been committed". Which is a passive voice cop-out. But I don't know his exact words.
The state broadcaster has tried to say that the issue is whether Cox should be held in contempt.
On the eve of the MV debate, the Government has laid the following meme on the table: that it will uphold the "public interest" regardless of what the Commons decides in favour of. Wow. Has that happened before in the past 350 years?
Meanwhile Andrea Leadsom of the ERG, Commons Leader, says Bercow should stand down as chair of the Commons Commission. Even if he were forced to, that wouldn't in itself bring down Bercow as Speaker, any more than suspending Geoffrey Cox would bring down the Government. But battles start with opening shots.
"The House holds the Government to be in contempt of it" is not far off "This House has no confidence in the Government".
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager, and now older.
I found my teenage town (Winchester) dull and provincial, most of my friends were desperate to leave. Some of those who left, later reurned and now appreciate its charms. Those that never left do seem rather dull.
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager, and now older.
I found my teenage town (Winchester) dull and provincial, most of my friends were desperate to leave. Some of those who left, later reurned and now appreciate its charms. Those that never left do seem rather dull.
I'm always staggered by the preponderance of young mothers, or older mothers with surprisingly adult children. Not much else to do, I suppose...
Who exactly will tomorrow's motion assert should be held in contempt of the Commons - the Government or the Attorney General?
The opposition leaders requested a motion holding the Government to be in contempt.
Reports of Bercow's response describe him as finding that there is an arguable case "that a contempt has been committed". Which is a passive voice cop-out. But I don't know his exact words.
The state broadcaster has tried to say that the issue is whether Cox should be held in contempt.
On the eve of the MV debate, the Government has laid the following meme on the table: that it will uphold the "public interest" regardless of what the Commons decides in favour of. Wow. Has that happened before in the past 350 years?
Meanwhile Andrea Leadsom of the ERG, Commons Leader, says Bercow should stand down as chair of the Commons Commission. Even if he were forced to, that wouldn't in itself bring down Bercow as Speaker, any more than suspending Geoffrey Cox would bring down the Government. But battles start with opening shots.
"The House holds the Government to be in contempt of it" is not far off "This House has no confidence in the Government".
We know that the PM is behind refusing to publish this advice. Cox wouldn't refuse on his own.
I really do see this as a resigning matter if she is behind actions found in contempt of the House.
But trust Bercow to stick one to his former colleagues.
As a political nerd, even I cannot get interested in this contempt discussion?
It all seems to be rather a displacement tic to avoid doing the real work, rather like that essay crisis moment when there is a compulsion to reindex the albumn collection alphabetically...
"Herefordshire is more rural than Northumberland? As I said. Hexham JCP covers an area bigger than Herefordshire. And it is the only one."
It depends, of course, on how you define rurality. I think Herefordshire might be unique in England in having no high rise buildings (more than, say, ten storeys high), and no official length of motorway (unless you count the Ross spur (which some don't))
Herefordshire is rural: Northumberland is wild.
I've cycled over the Otterburn Ranges and beyond in Northumberland. An absolutely astonishing area - never been anywhere like it in England.
But I wouldn't move there. I'd move to Herefordshire like a shot.
The BBC's Hugh Schofield in Paris says more moderate members of the movement who said they would be prepared to talk are being shouted down by more extreme elements, and have been receiving death threats.
Interesting to see so many PBers shilling for the vandalisers of the Arc de Triomphe.
I did feel sorry for those Yellow Vests on Saturday who were filmed trying to stop their compatriots pulling up cobbles to throw at the police. Their sense and reason will be drowned out by the idiots who didn't listen to them.
The Gov have behaved like a bunch of muppets. If they didnt want to publish the legal advice, and there are good reasons either way, they should have opposed the motion to publish it in the first place. Once that motion was passed,they were always going to struggle with not publishing. Such incompetence seems typical of May and typical of why the Brexit negotiations have been so badly handled.
Who exactly will tomorrow's motion assert should be held in contempt of the Commons - the Government or the Attorney General?
The opposition leaders requested a motion holding the Government to be in contempt.
Reports of Bercow's response describe him as finding that there is an arguable case "that a contempt has been committed". Which is a passive voice cop-out. But I don't know his exact words.
The state broadcaster has tried to say that the issue is whether Cox should be held in contempt.
On the eve of the MV debate, the Government has laid the following meme on the table: that it will uphold the "public interest" regardless of what the Commons decides in favour of. Wow. Has that happened before in the past 350 years?
Meanwhile Andrea Leadsom of the ERG, Commons Leader, says Bercow should stand down as chair of the Commons Commission. Even if he were forced to, that wouldn't in itself bring down Bercow as Speaker, any more than suspending Geoffrey Cox would bring down the Government. But battles start with opening shots.
"The House holds the Government to be in contempt of it" is not far off "This House has no confidence in the Government".
We know that the PM is behind refusing to publish this advice. Cox wouldn't refuse on his own.
I really do see this as a resigning matter if she is behind actions found in contempt of the House.
Oh well, never mind
But seriously, she is a limpet - going to have to be forced out I think.
This is one of those times when Leavers get irritable if anyone mentions Parliamentary sovereignty.
Nope. Stop making stuff up. Once again May and her clique have done exactly the wrong thing when doing the right thing would have been so much easier. They deserve all they get.
I might have a spot of sympathy for Cox if he had stood his ground and said that the advice had to be published and he considered it a resigning matter. Since he seemingly didn't my sympathy is zero.
The Gov have behaved like a bunch of muppets. If they didnt want to publish the legal advice, and there are good reasons either way, they should have opposed the motion to publish it in the first place. Once that motion was passed,they were always going to struggle with not publishing. Such incompetence seems typical of May and typical of why the Brexit negotiations have been so badly handled.
Actually what I think they should have done is more nuanced. There is no particular point in opposing the release of “advice” on a specific case if they were going to lose. BUT what they should have instigated is a full inquiry into the whole issue of legal advice to the Govt (in general) and whether there should be limits imposed on Parliament in seeking the release of advice (in general) provided to the Govt, or future Govts, in confidence, and whether legal advice/opinion provided to the Govt should have any specific constitutional significance.
Legal advice is an opinion of the law, not a statement of the law, and there is no reason why one opinion should be unique or hold any particular validity over any other. I’m not sure that, once framed as a point of principle, rather than a point of specificity pushed for partisan purposes, whether Parliament would have held its line.
Frankly, the legal advice thing is ridiculous. The Attorney general provides legal advice to the Govt. if Parliament wants its own advice it can commission that for themselves. Legal advice is opinion, not fact. It is delivered for a client and that client is not obliged to act upon it or to make it available to others to influence their course of action.
The AG is an MP and a member of the Government and as such is answerable to Parliament. Since the ultimate arbiter of all legal matters is supposed to be Parliament (given that they actually make the laws) they ned to have all the information before them to be able to make an informed decision.
But trust Bercow to stick one to his former colleagues.
As a political nerd, even I cannot get interested in this contempt discussion?
It all seems to be rather a displacement tic to avoid doing the real work, rather like that essay crisis moment when there is a compulsion to reindex the albumn collection alphabetically...
Yes, that seems pretty likely. This is all just a proxy battle, ultimately irrelevant to the primary issue before parliament right now. Not that contempt is a thing to be just ignored, but the whole refusal to publish, the demand in the first place and the arguments over it are not really mattering when it comes to what we do once the deal is voted down in a week.
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager, and now older.
I found my teenage town (Winchester) dull and provincial, most of my friends were desperate to leave. Some of those who left, later reurned and now appreciate its charms. Those that never left do seem rather dull.
Politically Winchester has had a lot of drama over the decades. And what else compares with the batty Lib Dem councillor who thought he saw an alien walking up the High Street?
Frankly, the legal advice thing is ridiculous. The Attorney general provides legal advice to the Govt. if Parliament wants its own advice it can commission that for themselves. Legal advice is opinion, not fact. It is delivered for a client and that client is not obliged to act upon it or to make it available to others to influence their course of action.
The AG is an MP and a member of the Government and as such is answerable to Parliament. Since the ultimate arbiter of all legal matters is supposed to be Parliament (given that they actually make the laws) they ned to have all the information before them to be able to make an informed decision.
Well they often do not have the full legal advice like this when making a decision, so they do not necessarily need it, but they have demanded it so the government should have given it to them already. There's been no upside to not giving it.
Frankly, the legal advice thing is ridiculous. The Attorney general provides legal advice to the Govt. if Parliament wants its own advice it can commission that for themselves. Legal advice is opinion, not fact. It is delivered for a client and that client is not obliged to act upon it or to make it available to others to influence their course of action.
The AG is an MP and a member of the Government and as such is answerable to Parliament. Since the ultimate arbiter of all legal matters is supposed to be Parliament (given that they actually make the laws) they ned to have all the information before them to be able to make an informed decision.
Well they often do not have the full legal advice like this when making a decision, so they do not necessarily need it, but they have demanded it so the government should have given it to them already. There's been no upside to not giving it.
Frankly, the legal advice thing is ridiculous. The Attorney general provides legal advice to the Govt. if Parliament wants its own advice it can commission that for themselves. Legal advice is opinion, not fact. It is delivered for a client and that client is not obliged to act upon it or to make it available to others to influence their course of action.
The AG is an MP and a member of the Government and as such is answerable to Parliament. Since the ultimate arbiter of all legal matters is supposed to be Parliament (given that they actually make the laws) they ned to have all the information before them to be able to make an informed decision.
Well they often do not have the full legal advice like this when making a decision, so they do not necessarily need it, but they have demanded it so the government should have given it to them already. There's been no upside to not giving it.
Parliament is not the ultimate arbiter of legal matters. At least not since the creation of the Supreme Court. Parliament can make and change law, it does not rule on the law. That is the role of the courts.
MPs are just showboating now and playing stupid games .
The main points are out there already . The summary is perfectly acceptable . I watched the whole session with the AG .
I’m no Tory supporter and an ardent Remainer but this political point scoring is seriously beginning to grate .
These MPs will still be arguing and playing games as the SS Brexit hits the iceberg . Enough , vote for the damn deal .
I’d love to turn back the clock but the ships sailed ,I fear another EU ref not just because of the fallout but most of the public are to be blunt not to be trusted with anything that doesn’t involve voting for their favourite on Strictly etc.
Given a third of the country think no deal is acceptable , who in their right mind would want another vote !
How stupid do they look? Now EVERYBODY wants to see this advice. The advice that May's Brexit is mortally wounded.
Just publish, and be damned.
+1
The vote is lost, it is not worth risking suspension of Tory MPs.
If everyone votes as I think they will in the VONC, the Government survives by a single vote if the DUP abstain. (IF Cox, Lidington suspended) I've assumed Bercow for, Hermon against the government
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager, and now older.
I found my teenage town (Winchester) dull and provincial, most of my friends were desperate to leave. Some of those who left, later reurned and now appreciate its charms. Those that never left do seem rather dull.
Winchester is one of the most beautiful small cities in the entire world. I can't think of many that have all its advantages - and it is surrounded by swathes of magnificent countryside. (And some shite places like Easteligh, but hey)
At 18 I was glad to leave. It is part of growing up, flying the nest.
MPs are just showboating now and playing stupid games .
The main points are out there already . The summary is perfectly acceptable . I watched the whole session with the AG .
I’m no Tory supporter and an ardent Remainer but this political point scoring is seriously beginning to grate .
These MPs will still be arguing and playing games as the SS Brexit hits the iceberg . Enough , vote for the damn deal .
I’d love to turn back the clock but the ships sailed ,I fear another EU ref not just because of the fallout but most of the public are to be blunt not to be trusted with anything that doesn’t involve voting for their favourite on Strictly etc.
Given a third of the country think no deal is acceptable , who in their right mind would want another vote !
How do we know the main points are there without seeing the full advice that was promised originally? How do we know there isn't something even worse than that which was in the summary?
Whatever one thinks of the contempt argument I struggle to see the justification for holding the AG responsible. His legal advice is provided to his client ie. the Govt. Basic legal principle/precedent says that a lawyer is bound by confidentiality unless released from it by his client.
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager, and now older.
I found my teenage town (Winchester) dull and provincial, most of my friends were desperate to leave. Some of those who left, later reurned and now appreciate its charms. Those that never left do seem rather dull.
Winchester is one of the most beautiful small cities in the entire world. I can't think of many that have all its advantages - and it is surrounded by swathes of magnificent countryside. (And some shite places like Easteligh, but hey)
Whatever one thinks of the contempt argument I struggle to see the justification for holding the AG responsible. His legal advice is provided to his client ie. the Govt. Basic legal principle/precedent says that a lawyer is bound by confidentiality unless released from it by his client.
Very fair point. Could Parliament hold someone else's lawyer in contempt for not disclosing his advice to his client?
MPs are just showboating now and playing stupid games .
The main points are out there already . The summary is perfectly acceptable . I watched the whole session with the AG .
I’m no Tory supporter and an ardent Remainer but this political point scoring is seriously beginning to grate .
These MPs will still be arguing and playing games as the SS Brexit hits the iceberg . Enough , vote for the damn deal .
I’d love to turn back the clock but the ships sailed ,I fear another EU ref not just because of the fallout but most of the public are to be blunt not to be trusted with anything that doesn’t involve voting for their favourite on Strictly etc.
Given a third of the country think no deal is acceptable , who in their right mind would want another vote !
How do we know the main points are there without seeing the full advice that was promised originally? How do we know there isn't something even worse than that which was in the summary?
Of course the AG could change his mind on some of the “main points” and provide some revised advice. As Lord Goldsmith allegedly did in the run up to the Iraq War. Legal advice is opinion not fact.
TBH the aim isn't really to nail Cox for contempt, or even Lidington for that matter. They're both collateral damage.
The aim is to disrupt THE GRID (I can tell you a contempt motion was not on May's timetable) and force May off her pointless one-woman election campaign to nowhere and force her on the defensive by having an almighty bunfight with Parliament over a cover-up.
Whatever one thinks of the contempt argument I struggle to see the justification for holding the AG responsible. His legal advice is provided to his client ie. the Govt. Basic legal principle/precedent says that a lawyer is bound by confidentiality unless released from it by his client.
Very fair point. Could Parliament hold someone else's lawyer in contempt for not disclosing his advice to his client?
TBH the aim isn't really to nail Cox for contempt, or even Lidington for that matter. They're both collateral damage.
The aim is to disrupt THE GRID (I can tell you a contempt motion was not on May's timetable) and force May off her pointless one-woman election campaign to nowhere and force her on the defensive by having an almighty bunfight with Parliament over a cover-up.
Did no one in the No 10 Grid Making Machine spot this one coming?
TBH the aim isn't really to nail Cox for contempt, or even Lidington for that matter. They're both collateral damage.
The aim is to disrupt THE GRID (I can tell you a contempt motion was not on May's timetable) and force May off her pointless one-woman election campaign to nowhere and force her on the defensive by having an almighty bunfight with Parliament over a cover-up.
Did no one in the No 10 Grid Making Machine spot this one coming?
Jeez...
I think May's supposed to be in the "final strait" on this one, putting the finishing touches to the clinching arguments that get those waverers on board.
I don't think "waste two news cycles at war with Parliament, on a hiding to nothing, defending a fiercely stupid cover-up only to climb down at the end of it anyway" was ever on the grid. Maybe on an earlier version?
So thanks to that idiot continuity Blairite Paul Waugh on Twitter, we've been arguing all night about how Labour not having a third seat on the standards committee was a massive own-goal.
And it turns out that the government is trying to long-grass it in the PRIVILEGES committee?
This is exactly the kind of utterly useless and completely wrong analysis from the Twitterati we've come to expect.
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager, and now older.
I found my teenage town (Winchester) dull and provincial, most of my friends were desperate to leave. Some of those who left, later reurned and now appreciate its charms. Those that never left do seem rather dull.
Winchester is one of the most beautiful small cities in the entire world. I can't think of many that have all its advantages - and it is surrounded by swathes of magnificent countryside. (And some shite places like Easteligh, but hey)
When they were building one of the most beautiful small cities in the world, they really should have made better provision for the motor car. It's a bastard place to drive round....
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager
Winchester is one of the most beautiful small cities in the entire world. I can't think of many that have all its advantages - and it is surrounded by swathes of magnificent countryside. (And some shite places like Easteligh, but hey)
At 18 I was glad to leave. It is part of growing up, flying the nest.
I have no particular desire to return.
Well, I wouldn't want to live there, personally, right now (my sister did live there for 15 years, and I stayed many months, so I know it well)
But if you put a gun to my head and said You have to choose five places when you're gonna retire, I think a nice townhouse, near the cathedral, in Winchester, might just make the list.
Sure, I could see that happening to me too, but it is because I am now middle aged.
At 18 though, I was keen to be off to the bigger world, just as others leave places like Corwall, Norfolk, or the Isle of Wight. What appeals aged 55 is not the same as aged 15, and perhaps just as well.
I am Leicester by adoption, but Leicester is a place where most have roots further afield, so it is a welcoming place. Vibrant, gritty, grimy, even dangerous at times, but at least it is not like being suffocated. I like life to have a bit of an edge.
Edinburgh is famously the best British City to live in, but even so, it can crush a persons soul:
TBH the aim isn't really to nail Cox for contempt, or even Lidington for that matter. They're both collateral damage.
The aim is to disrupt THE GRID (I can tell you a contempt motion was not on May's timetable) and force May off her pointless one-woman election campaign to nowhere and force her on the defensive by having an almighty bunfight with Parliament over a cover-up.
Did no one in the No 10 Grid Making Machine spot this one coming?
Jeez...
I think May's supposed to be in the "final strait" on this one, putting the finishing touches to the clinching arguments that get those waverers on board.
I don't think "waste two news cycles at war with Parliament, on a hiding to nothing, defending a fiercely stupid cover-up only to climb down at the end of it anyway" was ever on the grid. Maybe on an earlier version?
One thing that you can count on with May is that her rigid top down plan never lasts long in contact with reality.
Contempt motions might not have been on the number ten grid, but it's not like the grid was a big success anyway. This is just another string on the Angry now. And if MPs And journalists are getting angrier, the vote is going down soon.
Does anyone know how long a contempt motion can take - might disrupt the rest of Business if it's drawn out
"Herefordshire is more rural than Northumberland? As I said. Hexham JCP covers an area bigger than Herefordshire. And it is the only one."
It depends, of course, on how you define rurality. I think Herefordshire might be unique in England in having no high rise buildings (more than, say, ten storeys high), and no official length of motorway (unless you count the Ross spur (which some don't))
In other words its complicated. Northumberland would surely win on other metrics. Population density?
Isle of Wight has no motorways and only one extremely short stretch of dual carriageway outside the hospital. And no buildings more than ten storeys high afaik
But the IoW is part of Hants.
Well, if you’re going to use real county boundaries and not fiat ones, then Northumberland does contain motorways and high-rise buildings as its southern border is the Tyne, all the way to the sea.
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager, and now older.
I found my teenage town (Winchester) dull and provincial, most of my friends were desperate to leave. Some of those who left, later reurned and now appreciate its charms. Those that never left do seem rather dull.
Winchester is one of the most beautiful small cities in the entire world. I can't think of many that have all its advantages - and it is surrounded by swathes of magnificent countryside. (And some shite places like Easteligh, but hey)
When they were building one of the most beautiful small cities in the world, they really should have made better provision for the motor car. It's a bastard place to drive round....
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager, and now older.
I found my teenage town (Winchester) dull and provincial, most of my friends were desperate to leave. Some of those who left, later reurned and now appreciate its charms. Those that never left do seem rather dull.
Winchester is one of the most beautiful small cities in the entire world. I can't think of many that have all its advantages - and it is surrounded by swathes of magnificent countryside. (And some shite places like Easteligh, but hey)
At 18 I was glad to leave. It is part of growing up, flying the nest.
I have no particular desire to return.
Well, I wouldn't want to live there, personally, right now (my sister did live there for 15 years, and I stayed many months, so I know it well)
But if you put a gun to my head and said You have to choose five places when you're gonna retire, I think a nice townhouse, near the cathedral, in Winchester, might just make the list.
I lived in Winchester for almost all of the 90s[1], which was my late 20s and early 30s and I loved the place. I would say that if it wasn’t for meeting my now wife I’d be there still, but I could never have afforded to buy anything there on a local government techie salary so would have probably ended up in Eastleigh.
[1] And I was a Lib Dem activist so got a front-row seat to the local political drama
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager, and now older.
I found my teenage town (Winchester) dull and provincial, most of my friends were desperate to leave. Some of those who left, later reurned and now appreciate its charms. Those that never left do seem rather dull.
Winchester is one of the most beautiful small cities in the entire world. I can't think of many that have all its advantages - and it is surrounded by swathes of magnificent countryside. (And some shite places like Easteligh, but hey)
When they were building one of the most beautiful small cities in the world, they really should have made better provision for the motor car. It's a bastard place to drive round....
Bloody Alfred the Great . No forward planning
Excuse you, but Alfred’s burhs were very well planned for their day!
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager
Winchester is one of the most beautiful small cities in the entire world. I can't think of many that have all its advantages - and it is surrounded by swathes of magnificent countryside. (And some shite places like Easteligh, but hey)
At 18 I was glad to leave. It is part of growing up, flying the nest.
I have no particular desire to return.
Well, I wouldn't want to live there, personally, right now (my sister did live there for 15 years, and I stayed many months, so I know it well)
But if you put a gun to my head and said You have to choose five places when you're gonna retire, I think a nice townhouse, near the cathedral, in Winchester, might just make the list.
It is only by making bad choices that we can really be free. Any dolt can make the easy choice.
How comfortable for you. Those making the choice at least need to start being honest about the choices they are selecting from.
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager, and now older.
I found my teenage town (Winchester) dull and provincial, most of my friends were desperate to leave. Some of those who left, later reurned and now appreciate its charms. Those that never left do seem rather dull.
Winchester is
At 18 I was glad to leave. It is part of growing up, flying the nest.
I have no particular desire to return.
Well, I wouldn't want to live there, personally, right now (my sister did live there for 15 years, and I stayed many months, so I know it well)
But if you put a gun to my head and said You have to choose five places when you're gonna retire, I think a nice townhouse, near the cathedral, in Winchester, might just make the list.
I lived in Winchester for almost all of the 90s[1], which was my late 20s and early 30s and I loved the place. I would say that if it wasn’t for meeting my now wife I’d be there still, but I could never have afforded to buy anything there on a local government techie salary so would have probably ended up in Eastleigh.
[1] And I was a Lib Dem activist so got a front-row seat to the local political drama
None of my schoolmates could afford to buy in Winchester or its surrounding villages, even if they had jobs there. They were mostly shunted off to "affordable" housing in Eastleigh or Southampton, so posh commuters could buy up the places we knew. It is a modern sort of Enclosure movement or Clearances.
"Herefordshire is more rural than Northumberland? As I said. Hexham JCP covers an area bigger than Herefordshire. And it is the only one."
It depends, of course, on how you define rurality. I think Herefordshire might be unique in England in having no high rise buildings (more than, say, ten storeys high), and no official length of motorway (unless you count the Ross spur (which some don't))
In other words its complicated. Northumberland would surely win on other metrics. Population density?
Isle of Wight has no motorways and only one extremely short stretch of dual carriageway outside the hospital. And no buildings more than ten storeys high afaik
But the IoW is part of Hants.
Well, if you’re going to use real county boundaries and not fiat ones, then Northumberland does contain motorways and high-rise buildings as its southern border is the Tyne, all the way to the sea.
Although. To be pedantic . And this is PB after all Only from Prudhoe eastwards. I live south of the Tyne in Northumberland .
"Herefordshire is more rural than Northumberland? As I said. Hexham JCP covers an area bigger than Herefordshire. And it is the only one."
It depends, of course, on how you define rurality. I think Herefordshire might be unique in England in having no high rise buildings (more than, say, ten storeys high), and no official length of motorway (unless you count the Ross spur (which some don't))
In other words its complicated. Northumberland would surely win on other metrics. Population density?
Isle of Wight has no motorways and only one extremely short stretch of dual carriageway outside the hospital. And no buildings more than ten storeys high afaik
But the IoW is part of Hants.
Well, if you’re going to use real county boundaries and not fiat ones, then Northumberland does contain motorways and high-rise buildings as its southern border is the Tyne, all the way to the sea.
Although. To be pedantic . And this is PB after all Only from Prudhoe eastwards. I live south of the Tyne in Northumberland .
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager
Winchester is one of the most beautiful small cities in the entire world. I can't think of many that have all its advantages - and it is surrounded by swathes of magnificent countryside. (And some shite places like Easteligh, but hey)
At 18 I was glad to leave. It is part of growing up, flying the nest.
I have no particular desire to return.
Well, I wouldn't want to live there, personally, right now (my sister did live there for 15 years, and I stayed many months, so I know it well)
But if you put a gun to my head and said You have to choose five places when you're gonna retire, I think a nice townhouse, near the cathedral, in Winchester, might just make the list.
It is only by making bad choices that we can really be free. Any dolt can make the easy choice.
How comfortable for you. Those making the choice at least need to start being honest about the choices they are selecting from.
Sure, though from an ordinary middle class state school back ground, I have had a range of choices not available to others. To have no choices in life, no ability to escape those options is a terrible fate indeed.
"Herefordshire is more rural than Northumberland? As I said. Hexham JCP covers an area bigger than Herefordshire. And it is the only one."
It depends, of course, on how you define rurality. I think Herefordshire might be unique in England in having no high rise buildings (more than, say, ten storeys high), and no official length of motorway (unless you count the Ross spur (which some don't))
In other words its complicated. Northumberland would surely win on other metrics. Population density?
Isle of Wight has no motorways and only one extremely short stretch of dual carriageway outside the hospital. And no buildings more than ten storeys high afaik
But the IoW is part of Hants.
Well, if you’re going to use real county boundaries and not fiat ones, then Northumberland does contain motorways and high-rise buildings as its southern border is the Tyne, all the way to the sea.
I think Dorset might be the only traditional county without a motorway
"Herefordshire is more rural than Northumberland? As I said. Hexham JCP covers an area bigger than Herefordshire. And it is the only one."
It depends, of course, on how you define rurality. I think Herefordshire might be unique in England in having no high rise buildings (more than, say, ten storeys high), and no official length of motorway (unless you count the Ross spur (which some don't))
In other words its complicated. Northumberland would surely win on other metrics. Population density?
Isle of Wight has no motorways and only one extremely short stretch of dual carriageway outside the hospital. And no buildings more than ten storeys high afaik
But the IoW is part of Hants.
Well, if you’re going to use real county boundaries and not fiat ones, then Northumberland does contain motorways and high-rise buildings as its southern border is the Tyne, all the way to the sea.
I think Dorset might be the only traditional county without a motorway
"Herefordshire is more rural than Northumberland? As I said. Hexham JCP covers an area bigger than Herefordshire. And it is the only one."
It depends, of course, on how you define rurality. I think Herefordshire might be unique in England in having no high rise buildings (more than, say, ten storeys high), and no official length of motorway (unless you count the Ross spur (which some don't))
In other words its complicated. Northumberland would surely win on other metrics. Population density?
Isle of Wight has no motorways and only one extremely short stretch of dual carriageway outside the hospital. And no buildings more than ten storeys high afaik
But the IoW is part of Hants.
Well, if you’re going to use real county boundaries and not fiat ones, then Northumberland does contain motorways and high-rise buildings as its southern border is the Tyne, all the way to the sea.
I think Dorset might be the only traditional county without a motorway
"Herefordshire is more rural than Northumberland? As I said. Hexham JCP covers an area bigger than Herefordshire. And it is the only one."
It depends, of course, on how you define rurality. I think Herefordshire might be unique in England in having no high rise buildings (more than, say, ten storeys high), and no official length of motorway (unless you count the Ross spur (which some don't))
In other words its complicated. Northumberland would surely win on other metrics. Population density?
Isle of Wight has no motorways and only one extremely short stretch of dual carriageway outside the hospital. And no buildings more than ten storeys high afaik
But the IoW is part of Hants.
Well, if you’re going to use real county boundaries and not fiat ones, then Northumberland does contain motorways and high-rise buildings as its southern border is the Tyne, all the way to the sea.
I think Dorset might be the only traditional county without a motorway
Using the historic boundaries as defined pre 1972, I think Glamorgan is the only traditional Welsh county with one.
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
"Ditto my early life in a market town in the Lakes. Adore going back, despised it and everything about it as a teen."
The Lakes are, of course, sublime. The only problem is the tourists. But yes, it is amazing how one's perspectives change from teenhood to middle age. I would love a nice old house in rural Herefordshire right now.
My other half had exactly the same view as Anorak about his market town in the Lakes (maybe the same one?) when young. Now he adores the Lakes and has to be dragged away from the place.
Penrith, which even then i recognised as infinitely more pleasant than some other Cumbrian towns such as Maryport or Workington or Cockermouth. I suspect I would still have hated it even if I'd been living in Keswick surrounded by true splendour.
I also used to hate being 'dragged' fell walking with my Dad. Can't get enough of it now - and I'm fortunate in that my young city-dwelling kids love it too!
It is in the nature of being a restless teenager, and now older.
I found my teenage town (Winchester) dull and provincial, most of my friends were desperate to leave. Some of those who left, later reurned and now appreciate its charms. Those that never left do seem rather dull.
Winchester is one of the most beautiful small cities in the entire world. I can't think of many that have all its advantages - and it is surrounded by swathes of magnificent countryside. (And some shite places like Easteligh, but hey)
At 18 I was glad to leave. It is part of growing up, flying the nest.
I have no particular desire to return.
Well, I wouldn't want to live there, personally, right now (my sister did live there for 15 years, and I stayed many months, so I know it well)
But if you put a gun to my head and said You have to choose five places when you're gonna retire, I think a nice townhouse, near the cathedral, in Winchester, might just make the list.
I lived in Winchester for almost all of the 90s[1], which was my late 20s and early 30s and I loved the place. I would say that if it wasn’t for meeting my now wife I’d be there still, but I could never have afforded to buy anything there on a local government techie salary so would have probably ended up in Eastleigh.
[1] And I was a Lib Dem activist so got a front-row seat to the local political drama
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Assume all this leads to a VONC that the PM loses. A big assumption. If the DUP say here are a list of conservatives who would have our confidence if they were Tory leader then surely those are the only candidates the Tory party could decide from or the palace could use to invite someone to form a government? How would the maths work any other way?
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Assume all this leads to a VONC that the PM loses. A big assumption. If the DUP say here are a list of conservatives who would have our confidence if they were Tory leader then surely those are the only candidates the Tory party could decide from or the palace could use to invite someone to form a government? How would the maths work any other way?
The Lib Dems could say "here are a list of policies we demand in exchange for confidence and supply".
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Assume all this leads to a VONC that the PM loses. A big assumption. If the DUP say here are a list of conservatives who would have our confidence if they were Tory leader then surely those are the only candidates the Tory party could decide from or the palace could use to invite someone to form a government? How would the maths work any other way?
The Lib Dems could say "here are a list of policies we demand in exchange for confidence and supply".
They've been there, done that. Virtually killed them.
"Herefordshire is more rural than Northumberland? As I said. Hexham JCP covers an area bigger than Herefordshire. And it is the only one."
It depends, of course, on how you define rurality. I think Herefordshire might be unique in England in having no high rise buildings (more than, say, ten storeys high), and no official length of motorway (unless you count the Ross spur (which some don't))
In other words its complicated. Northumberland would surely win on other metrics. Population density?
Isle of Wight has no motorways and only one extremely short stretch of dual carriageway outside the hospital. And no buildings more than ten storeys high afaik
But the IoW is part of Hants.
Well, if you’re going to use real county boundaries and not fiat ones, then Northumberland does contain motorways and high-rise buildings as its southern border is the Tyne, all the way to the sea.
Not technically true. Newcastle was never historically part of Northumberland. It has always been the city and county of Newcastle upon Tyne. Therefore the historic county of Northumberland indeed has no motorways and no high rise depending on your definition of high rise...
I personally live right on the border between Newcastle and present day Northumberland. It’s a fantastic place to live as I have the empty and wild countryside just a short walk alway but also regular buses to the centre of Newcastle in just 30 minutes.
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Assume all this leads to a VONC that the PM loses. A big assumption. If the DUP say here are a list of conservatives who would have our confidence if they were Tory leader then surely those are the only candidates the Tory party could decide from or the palace could use to invite someone to form a government? How would the maths work any other way?
The Lib Dems could say "here are a list of policies we demand in exchange for confidence and supply".
They've been there, done that. Virtually killed them.
Not happening again.
All the surviving LD's have been EU-chipped. The policy list would likely include the UK-stationing of EU army units. May not play well with (all) their putative C&S partners.
"Herefordshire is more rural than Northumberland? As I said. Hexham JCP covers an area bigger than Herefordshire. And it is the only one."
It depends, of course, on how you define rurality. I think Herefordshire might be unique in England in having no high rise buildings (more than, say, ten storeys high), and no official length of motorway (unless you count the Ross spur (which some don't))
In other words its complicated. Northumberland would surely win on other metrics. Population density?
Isle of Wight has no motorways and only one extremely short stretch of dual carriageway outside the hospital. And no buildings more than ten storeys high afaik
But the IoW is part of Hants.
Well, if you’re going to use real county boundaries and not fiat ones, then Northumberland does contain motorways and high-rise buildings as its southern border is the Tyne, all the way to the sea.
I think Dorset might be the only traditional county without a motorway
Using the historic boundaries as defined pre 1972, I think Glamorgan is the only traditional Welsh county with one.
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Assume all this leads to a VONC that the PM loses. A big assumption. If the DUP say here are a list of conservatives who would have our confidence if they were Tory leader then surely those are the only candidates the Tory party could decide from or the palace could use to invite someone to form a government? How would the maths work any other way?
The Lib Dems could say "here are a list of policies we demand in exchange for confidence and supply".
They've been there, done that. Virtually killed them.
Not happening again.
What if the policy was an EU referendum, and it only lasted until the legislation was passed?
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Assume all this leads to a VONC that the PM loses. A big assumption. If the DUP say here are a list of conservatives who would have our confidence if they were Tory leader then surely those are the only candidates the Tory party could decide from or the palace could use to invite someone to form a government? How would the maths work any other way?
The Lib Dems could say "here are a list of policies we demand in exchange for confidence and supply".
They've been there, done that. Virtually killed them.
Not happening again.
What if the policy was an EU referendum, and it only lasted until the legislation was passed?
Then the Tories would face the fate of Clegg's Lib Dems.
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Assume all this leads to a VONC that the PM loses. A big assumption. If the DUP say here are a list of conservatives who would have our confidence if they were Tory leader then surely those are the only candidates the Tory party could decide from or the palace could use to invite someone to form a government? How would the maths work any other way?
The Lib Dems could say "here are a list of policies we demand in exchange for confidence and supply".
They've been there, done that. Virtually killed them.
Not happening again.
What if the policy was an EU referendum, and it only lasted until the legislation was passed?
Then the Tories would face the fate of Clegg's Lib Dems.
Works for the LibDems, and also potentially for TMay. Maybe she can put the DUP band back together after the referendum.
This is one of those times when Leavers get irritable if anyone mentions Parliamentary sovereignty.
What do you think it means?
In my view they are top of the pile when it comes to legislation but not when it comes to executive matters
(If the government were smarter, and passions less inflamed, you’d share the advice on privy council terms. There’s a real issue with publication of legal advice, but MPs should have access to the information ahead of the vote. Sometimes I don’t know why the government picks the fights it does)
The BBC's Hugh Schofield in Paris says more moderate members of the movement who said they would be prepared to talk are being shouted down by more extreme elements, and have been receiving death threats.
Yes, whilst Emperor Macron struts round the globe lecturing anyone and everyone his country descends into anarchy. To think some on this site have been envious of the French being governed by the pompous out of touch Macron.
I’ve been spending a lot of time in France at the moment. Some of the stuff that goes on there is eye opening
This is one of those times when Leavers get irritable if anyone mentions Parliamentary sovereignty.
(If the government were smarter, and passions less inflamed, you’d share the advice on privy council terms. There’s a real issue with publication of legal advice, but MPs should have access to the information ahead of the vote. Sometimes I don’t know why the government picks the fights it does)
It's bad political management, they look shifty with something to hide.
Once the house passed the motion demanding the full legal advice I'm not sure there was anyway round it.
Should never have got to this stage, like you say, could have been shared earlier on Pc terms, but that ship has sailed now I think. Wasted two days on a battle they can't win.
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Assume all this leads to a VONC that the PM loses. A big assumption. If the DUP say here are a list of conservatives who would have our confidence if they were Tory leader then surely those are the only candidates the Tory party could decide from or the palace could use to invite someone to form a government? How would the maths work any other way?
The DUP clearly loves Boris. He went down a storm at their conference.
This is one of those times when Leavers get irritable if anyone mentions Parliamentary sovereignty.
(If the government were smarter, and passions less inflamed, you’d share the advice on privy council terms. There’s a real issue with publication of legal advice, but MPs should have access to the information ahead of the vote. Sometimes I don’t know why the government picks the fights it does)
It's bad political management, they look shifty with something to hide.
Once the house passed the motion demanding the full legal advice I'm not sure there was anyway round it.
Should never have got to this stage, like you say, could have been shared earlier on Pc terms, but that ship has sailed now I think. Wasted two days on a battle they can't win.
It's all a bit amateur.
It’s entirely amateur
But I’m not sure it’s a good precedent for Parliament to be setting
This is one of those times when Leavers get irritable if anyone mentions Parliamentary sovereignty.
(If the government were smarter, and passions less inflamed, you’d share the advice on privy council terms. There’s a real issue with publication of legal advice, but MPs should have access to the information ahead of the vote. Sometimes I don’t know why the government picks the fights it does)
It's bad political management, they look shifty with something to hide.
Once the house passed the motion demanding the full legal advice I'm not sure there was anyway round it.
Should never have got to this stage, like you say, could have been shared earlier on Pc terms, but that ship has sailed now I think. Wasted two days on a battle they can't win.
It's all a bit amateur.
It’s entirely amateur
But I’m not sure it’s a good precedent for Parliament to be setting
It's only a precedent insofar as there is a motion requiring them to hand it over. Nothing of wider application without a motion. Ordinarily, a Govt. would have the numbers to block that motion. Blair had the numbers to block this type of motion from revealing the AG's Iraq War advice.
This is a situation where a minority Govt. couldn't keep that information in the box - and should have realised its sort-of coalition partner was pissed off by the matter. Very poor management of the problem. Just saying "shan't!!" like a three year old deserves them getting covered in Ordure! Ordure!
This is one of those times when Leavers get irritable if anyone mentions Parliamentary sovereignty.
(If the government were smarter, and passions less inflamed, you’d share the advice on privy council terms. There’s a real issue with publication of legal advice, but MPs should have access to the information ahead of the vote. Sometimes I don’t know why the government picks the fights it does)
It's bad political management, they look shifty with something to hide.
Once the house passed the motion demanding the full legal advice I'm not sure there was anyway round it.
Should never have got to this stage, like you say, could have been shared earlier on Pc terms, but that ship has sailed now I think. Wasted two days on a battle they can't win.
It's all a bit amateur.
It’s entirely amateur
But I’m not sure it’s a good precedent for Parliament to be setting
It's only a precedent insofar as there is a motion requiring them to hand it over. Nothing of wider application without a motion. Ordinarily, a Govt. would have the numbers to block that motion. Blair had the numbers to block this type of motion from revealing the AG's Iraq War advice.
This is a situation where a minority Govt. couldn't keep that information in the box - and should have realised its sort-of coalition partner was pissed off by the matter. Very poor management of the problem. Just saying "shan't!!" like a three year old deserves them getting covered in Ordure! Ordure!
This is one of those times when Leavers get irritable if anyone mentions Parliamentary sovereignty.
(If the government were smarter, and passions less inflamed, you’d share the advice on privy council terms. There’s a real issue with publication of legal advice, but MPs should have access to the information ahead of the vote. Sometimes I don’t know why the government picks the fights it does)
It's bad political management, they look shifty with something to hide.
Once the house passed the motion demanding the full legal advice I'm not sure there was anyway round it.
Should never have got to this stage, like you say, could have been shared earlier on Pc terms, but that ship has sailed now I think. Wasted two days on a battle they can't win.
It's all a bit amateur.
It’s entirely amateur
But I’m not sure it’s a good precedent for Parliament to be setting
It's only a precedent insofar as there is a motion requiring them to hand it over. Nothing of wider application without a motion. Ordinarily, a Govt. would have the numbers to block that motion. Blair had the numbers to block this type of motion from revealing the AG's Iraq War advice.
This is a situation where a minority Govt. couldn't keep that information in the box - and should have realised its sort-of coalition partner was pissed off by the matter. Very poor management of the problem. Just saying "shan't!!" like a three year old deserves them getting covered in Ordure! Ordure!
May really needs a Willie doesn’t she
If she had a Willie, she wouldn't be led by it. The bloody difficult woman won't back down - and is just going to get - well, bloody.
Her failings are coming to the fore. Like some exquisite Chinese water torture, she is drowning, drip by drip. In her own tears.
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Assume all this leads to a VONC that the PM loses. A big assumption. If the DUP say here are a list of conservatives who would have our confidence if they were Tory leader then surely those are the only candidates the Tory party could decide from or the palace could use to invite someone to form a government? How would the maths work any other way?
The DUP clearly loves Boris. He went down a storm at their conference.
They will settle for him as PM, I'd say.
Even the present Conservative Party, with it's visceral hatred of Corbyn, would surely shrink from having it's leader imposed by the DUP.
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Assume all this leads to a VONC that the PM loses. A big assumption. If the DUP say here are a list of conservatives who would have our confidence if they were Tory leader then surely those are the only candidates the Tory party could decide from or the palace could use to invite someone to form a government? How would the maths work any other way?
The DUP clearly loves Boris. He went down a storm at their conference.
They will settle for him as PM, I'd say.
Even the present Conservative Party, with it's visceral hatred of Corbyn, would surely shrink from having it's leader imposed by the DUP.
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Assume all this leads to a VONC that the PM loses. A big assumption. If the DUP say here are a list of conservatives who would have our confidence if they were Tory leader then surely those are the only candidates the Tory party could decide from or the palace could use to invite someone to form a government? How would the maths work any other way?
The DUP clearly loves Boris. He went down a storm at their conference.
They will settle for him as PM, I'd say.
Even the present Conservative Party, with it's visceral hatred of Corbyn, would surely shrink from having it's leader imposed by the DUP.
That is the dilemma for the Conservative Party.
What is worse for the UK - a Trot in Number 10 with Corbyn, or a Prat in Number 10 with Boris.
Politics is throwing up an endless round of exquisite dilemmas.
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Assume all this leads to a VONC that the PM loses. A big assumption. If the DUP say here are a list of conservatives who would have our confidence if they were Tory leader then surely those are the only candidates the Tory party could decide from or the palace could use to invite someone to form a government? How would the maths work any other way?
The DUP clearly loves Boris. He went down a storm at their conference.
They will settle for him as PM, I'd say.
Even the present Conservative Party, with it's visceral hatred of Corbyn, would surely shrink from having it's leader imposed by the DUP.
That is the dilemma for the Conservative Party.
What is worse for the UK - a Trot in Number 10 with Corbyn, or a Prat in Number 10 with Boris.
Politics is throwing up an endless round of exquisite dilemmas.
Unlikely. So many in Westminster don't want him. But if it gets to the members, I think he probably still gets it, as the standard bearer for Brexit. Would he really Hard Brexit? I'm not sure he would, when it came down to it. Not out of choice. He'd be looking for some compromise. But at least he would make efforts to achieve that better deal. Unlike May, who has gone as far as she wants - even if it is not as far as she needs.
But I don't think he would shirk from delivering Brexit if he had to - once all the other options had fallen away. And I still wonder whether Hard Brexit might be the way to go. It has the benefit of starting the EU trade negotiations with a clean slate, rather than under the hideously compromised May deal. A trade arangement that could last decades. And there would no doubt be some initial economic hardship (although the death and famine doom will look to be ridiculously over-played when reality arrives).
But I do think - could it be a Black Wednesday Redux? Getting out of a European arrangement that initially caused economic mayhem, but proved self-evidently the right thing to do when it allowed the economy to power head. I could see Boris getting stuck in to deliver that. And at least the Tory MPs could remove him from Number 10 at a later date. The same can not be said if they have facilitated PM Corbyn.
Unlikely. So many in Westminster don't want him. But if it gets to the members, I think he probably still gets it, as the standard bearer for Brexit. Would he really Hard Brexit? I'm not sure he would, when it came down to it. Not out of choice. He'd be looking for some compromise. But at least he would make efforts to achieve that better deal. Unlike May, who has gone as far as she wants - even if it is not as far as she needs.
But I don't think he would shirk from delivering Brexit if he had to - once all the other options had fallen away. And I still wonder whether Hard Brexit might be the way to go. It has the benefit of starting the EU trade negotiations with a clean slate, rather than under the hideously compromised May deal. A trade arangement that could last decades. And there would no doubt be some initial economic hardship (although the death and famine doom will look to be ridiculously over-played when reality arrives).
But I do think - could it be a Black Wednesday Redux? Getting out of a European arrangement that initially caused economic mayhem, but proved self-evidently the right thing to do when it allowed the economy to power head. I could see Boris getting stuck in to deliver that. And at least the Tory MPs could remove him from Number 10 at a later date. The same can not be said if they have facilitated PM Corbyn.
I don't think Black Wednesday was self evidently the right thing to do.
The "lawyer's advice to his client" line about what a cabinet minister does for the Government he belongs to is tiresome. Even on its face it is, because the "client" can be required by the Commons to hand the document over. Cox is a bit of a red herring. The 13 Nov humble address wasn't for Cox or Lidington to be ordered to hand it over. It was for "the following papers (to) be laid before Parliament: any legal advice in full, including that provided by the Attorney General". Theresa May has some responsibility for the contempt. Putting Cox forward as the guy to deal with it is a cheap move by the May group.
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Assume all this leads to a VONC that the PM loses. A big assumption. If the DUP say here are a list of conservatives who would have our confidence if they were Tory leader then surely those are the only candidates the Tory party could decide from or the palace could use to invite someone to form a government? How would the maths work any other way?
The DUP clearly loves Boris. He went down a storm at their conference.
They will settle for him as PM, I'd say.
Even the present Conservative Party, with it's visceral hatred of Corbyn, would surely shrink from having it's leader imposed by the DUP.
Don't confuse MM's wet dreams with reality ...
Hardly a wet dream. I've set out in detail my reason why I think it could be Boris.
And better the prat than the Trot, every time - at least the prat can be moved out of Downing Street.
"Herefordshire is more rural than Northumberland? As I said. Hexham JCP covers an area bigger than Herefordshire. And it is the only one."
It depends, of course, on how you define rurality. I think Herefordshire might be unique in England in having no high rise buildings (more than, say, ten storeys high), and no official length of motorway (unless you count the Ross spur (which some don't))
In other words its complicated. Northumberland would surely win on other metrics. Population density?
Isle of Wight has no motorways and only one extremely short stretch of dual carriageway outside the hospital. And no buildings more than ten storeys high afaik
But the IoW is part of Hants.
Well, if you’re going to use real county boundaries and not fiat ones, then Northumberland does contain motorways and high-rise buildings as its southern border is the Tyne, all the way to the sea.
I think Dorset might be the only traditional county without a motorway
Using the historic boundaries as defined pre 1972, I think Glamorgan is the only traditional Welsh county with one.
The western end of the M4 is in Carmarthenshire.
And the Severn Bridges (both of them) lead to Monmouthshire.
But even that pales in comparison to Hyufd's extraordinary claim on the last thread that there are ferries from Ullapool to Inverness. I still have a vision of the old Suilven steaming through solid granite towards Garve...
Unlikely. So many in Westminster don't want him. But if it gets to the members, I think he probably still gets it, as the standard bearer for Brexit. Would he really Hard Brexit? I'm not sure he would, when it came down to it. Not out of choice. He'd be looking for some compromise. But at least he would make efforts to achieve that better deal. Unlike May, who has gone as far as she wants - even if it is not as far as she needs.
But I don't think he would shirk from delivering Brexit if he had to - once all the other options had fallen away. And I still wonder whether Hard Brexit might be the way to go. It has the benefit of starting the EU trade negotiations with a clean slate, rather than under the hideously compromised May deal. A trade arangement that could last decades. And there would no doubt be some initial economic hardship (although the death and famine doom will look to be ridiculously over-played when reality arrives).
But I do think - could it be a Black Wednesday Redux? Getting out of a European arrangement that initially caused economic mayhem, but proved self-evidently the right thing to do when it allowed the economy to power head. I could see Boris getting stuck in to deliver that. And at least the Tory MPs could remove him from Number 10 at a later date. The same can not be said if they have facilitated PM Corbyn.
Looking at your post and the Jim Pickard post below, I find that I have to restrain myself from wishing genuine ill on leavers. As for their fantasies of Singapore on the North Sea, I’d understood much of the public we’re resolutely statist, pro-support for nationalisation various and very keen to have other people taxed.
Vermionously vile, with a default lie setting, Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn are the perfect standard bearers for Brexit.
These conversations should have been had in Cabinet two years ago. Not when looking down the barrel of Brexit.
An egregious failure of Government.
Who was Brexit secretary at the time? Who was foreign secretary? Grayling has been Transport Secretary since July 2016. He dislikes the EU. Leavers’ key skill really is blaming others and shirking responsibility.
Pharmacy Magazine, a magazine which is widely read among community pharmacists...... pharmacists in 'chemists' ........ has this (slightly edited, but not to change thrust)
'Concerns have been expressed by the MHRA and by the Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry that there was insufficient cold warehouse storage to stockpile sufficient amounts of medicines such as insulin should the flow of medicines into the UK be disrupted by a no deal Brexit. The Sec of State for Health (etc!) said: “Community pharmacies, like everybody else should support the prime minister’s deal, which will make sure that that eventuality does not occur.” In the run up to the cabinet’s approving the draft Brexit plan, he reportedly told colleagues he could not guarantee that a no deal scenario and the medicine supply issues that could ensue from this would not lead to patient fatalities.'
Now I'm an optimist, and am sure it won't be as bad as worst case, but I'm only 'sure'. I've been in commercial situations where 'worst case', although considered unlikely, actually happened.
Unlikely. So many in Westminster don't want him. But if it gets to the members, I think he probably still gets it, as the standard bearer for Brexit. Would he really Hard Brexit? I'm not sure he would, when it came down to it. Not out of choice. He'd be looking for some compromise. But at least he would make efforts to achieve that better deal. Unlike May, who has gone as far as she wants - even if it is not as far as she needs.
But I don't think he would shirk from delivering Brexit if he had to - once all the other options had fallen away. And I still wonder whether Hard Brexit might be the way to go. It has the benefit of starting the EU trade negotiations with a clean slate, rather than under the hideously compromised May deal. A trade arangement that could last decades. And there would no doubt be some initial economic hardship (although the death and famine doom will look to be ridiculously over-played when reality arrives).
But I do think - could it be a Black Wednesday Redux? Getting out of a European arrangement that initially caused economic mayhem, but proved self-evidently the right thing to do when it allowed the economy to power head. I could see Boris getting stuck in to deliver that. And at least the Tory MPs could remove him from Number 10 at a later date. The same can not be said if they have facilitated PM Corbyn.
I don't think Black Wednesday was self evidently the right thing to do.
With hindsight it had proved to be
At the time it was a balance between politics and economics with the politicians deciding in favour of politics
Unlikely. So many in Westminster don't want him. But if it gets to the members, I think he probably still gets it, as the standard bearer for Brexit. Would he really Hard Brexit? I'm not sure he would, when it came down to it. Not out of choice. He'd be looking for some compromise. But at least he would make efforts to achieve that better deal. Unlike May, who has gone as far as she wants - even if it is not as far as she needs.
But I don't think he would shirk from delivering Brexit if he had to - once all the other options had fallen away. And I still wonder whether Hard Brexit might be the way to go. It has the benefit of starting the EU trade negotiations with a clean slate, rather than under the hideously compromised May deal. A trade arangement that could last decades. And there would no doubt be some initial economic hardship (although the death and famine doom will look to be ridiculously over-played when reality arrives).
But I do think - could it be a Black Wednesday Redux? Getting out of a European arrangement that initially caused economic mayhem, but proved self-evidently the right thing to do when it allowed the economy to power head. I could see Boris getting stuck in to deliver that. And at least the Tory MPs could remove him from Number 10 at a later date. The same can not be said if they have facilitated PM Corbyn.
Looking at your post and the Jim Pickard post below, I find that I have to restrain myself from wishing genuine ill on leavers. As for their fantasies of Singapore on the North Sea, I’d understood much of the public we’re resolutely statist, pro-support for nationalisation various and very keen to have other people taxed....
For a fraction of the cost of Brexit, we could purchase the Isle of Wight, and donate it to the Mogg/Redwood tendency so they could live out their Singapore fantasy.
There’s probably somewhere around half a million Brits who’d join them. They might fall a bit short of their sub minimum wage worker target, though.
Comments
The opposition leaders requested a motion holding the Government to be in contempt.
Reports of Bercow's response describe him as finding that there is an arguable case "that a contempt has been committed". Which is a passive voice cop-out. But I don't know his exact words.
The state broadcaster has tried to say that the issue is whether Cox should be held in contempt.
On the eve of the MV debate, the Government has laid the following meme on the table: that it will uphold the "public interest" regardless of what the Commons decides in favour of. Wow. Has that happened before in the past 350 years?
Meanwhile Andrea Leadsom of the ERG, Commons Leader, says Bercow should stand down as chair of the Commons Commission. Even if he were forced to, that wouldn't in itself bring down Bercow as Speaker, any more than suspending Geoffrey Cox would bring down the Government. But battles start with opening shots.
"The House holds the Government to be in contempt of it" is not far off "This House has no confidence in the Government".
I found my teenage town (Winchester) dull and provincial, most of my friends were desperate to leave. Some of those who left, later reurned and now appreciate its charms. Those that never left do seem rather dull.
But trust Bercow to stick one to his former colleagues.
[Christ, that's condescending, isn't it]
I really do see this as a resigning matter if she is behind actions found in contempt of the House.
It all seems to be rather a displacement tic to avoid doing the real work, rather like that essay crisis moment when there is a compulsion to reindex the albumn collection alphabetically...
I've cycled over the Otterburn Ranges and beyond in Northumberland. An absolutely astonishing area - never been anywhere like it in England.
But I wouldn't move there. I'd move to Herefordshire like a shot.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1069724413027909637
But seriously, she is a limpet - going to have to be forced out I think.
I might have a spot of sympathy for Cox if he had stood his ground and said that the advice had to be published and he considered it a resigning matter. Since he seemingly didn't my sympathy is zero.
Legal advice is an opinion of the law, not a statement of the law, and there is no reason why one opinion should be unique or hold any particular validity over any other. I’m not sure that, once framed as a point of principle, rather than a point of specificity pushed for partisan purposes, whether Parliament would have held its line.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIJVSzQVqdQ
The main points are out there already . The summary is perfectly acceptable . I watched the whole session with the AG .
I’m no Tory supporter and an ardent Remainer but this political point scoring is seriously beginning to grate .
These MPs will still be arguing and playing games as the SS Brexit hits the iceberg . Enough , vote for the damn deal .
I’d love to turn back the clock but the ships sailed ,I fear another EU ref not just because of the fallout but most of the public are to be blunt not to be trusted with anything that doesn’t involve voting for their favourite on Strictly etc.
Given a third of the country think no deal is acceptable , who in their right mind would want another vote !
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1069695103474827264
I have no particular desire to return.
This Opposition must be the worst in living memory if not way longer.
Once again, the pursuit of ordinary Lab MPs by the purist brigade of Marx-lovers is a f*** up.
The aim is to disrupt THE GRID (I can tell you a contempt motion was not on May's timetable) and force May off her pointless one-woman election campaign to nowhere and force her on the defensive by having an almighty bunfight with Parliament over a cover-up.
It is not a straight lawyer role.
Jeez...
I don't think "waste two news cycles at war with Parliament, on a hiding to nothing, defending a fiercely stupid cover-up only to climb down at the end of it anyway" was ever on the grid. Maybe on an earlier version?
So thanks to that idiot continuity Blairite Paul Waugh on Twitter, we've been arguing all night about how Labour not having a third seat on the standards committee was a massive own-goal.
And it turns out that the government is trying to long-grass it in the PRIVILEGES committee?
This is exactly the kind of utterly useless and completely wrong analysis from the Twitterati we've come to expect.
At 18 though, I was keen to be off to the bigger world, just as others leave places like Corwall, Norfolk, or the Isle of Wight. What appeals aged 55 is not the same as aged 15, and perhaps just as well.
I am Leicester by adoption, but Leicester is a place where most have roots further afield, so it is a welcoming place. Vibrant, gritty, grimy, even dangerous at times, but at least it is not like being suffocated. I like life to have a bit of an edge.
Edinburgh is famously the best British City to live in, but even so, it can crush a persons soul:
https://youtu.be/RCxgqHqakXc
It is only by making bad choices that we can really be free. Any dolt can make the easy choice.
MPs And journalists are getting angrier, the vote is going down soon.
Does anyone know how long a contempt motion can take - might disrupt the rest of
Business if it's drawn out
[1] And I was a Lib Dem activist so got a front-row seat to the local political drama
https://twitter.com/HuffPostUK/status/1069614354457341957
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
The May group will learn tomorrow how many supposed anti-Dealers find it in themselves to cave. It doesn't look as though there will be many. First January general election since 1910?
Not happening again.
I personally live right on the border between Newcastle and present day Northumberland. It’s a fantastic place to live as I have the empty and wild countryside just a short walk alway but also regular buses to the centre of Newcastle in just 30 minutes.
In my view they are top of the pile when it comes to legislation but not when it comes to executive matters
(If the government were smarter, and passions less inflamed, you’d share the advice on privy council terms. There’s a real issue with publication of legal advice, but MPs should have access to the information ahead of the vote. Sometimes I don’t know why the government picks the fights it does)
Once the house passed the motion demanding the full legal advice I'm not sure there was anyway round it.
Should never have got to this stage, like you say, could have been shared earlier on Pc terms, but that ship has sailed now I think. Wasted two days on a battle they can't win.
It's all a bit amateur.
They will settle for him as PM, I'd say.
But I’m not sure it’s a good precedent for Parliament to be setting
https://homesecurity.press/quotes/muppet-characters-sam-the-eagle.html
This is a situation where a minority Govt. couldn't keep that information in the box - and should have realised its sort-of coalition partner was pissed off by the matter. Very poor management of the problem. Just saying "shan't!!" like a three year old deserves them getting covered in Ordure! Ordure!
Her failings are coming to the fore. Like some exquisite Chinese water torture, she is drowning, drip by drip. In her own tears.
What is worse for the UK - a Trot in Number 10 with Corbyn, or a Prat in Number 10 with Boris.
Politics is throwing up an endless round of exquisite dilemmas.
But I don't think he would shirk from delivering Brexit if he had to - once all the other options had fallen away. And I still wonder whether Hard Brexit might be the way to go. It has the benefit of starting the EU trade negotiations with a clean slate, rather than under the hideously compromised May deal. A trade arangement that could last decades. And there would no doubt be some initial economic hardship (although the death and famine doom will look to be ridiculously over-played when reality arrives).
But I do think - could it be a Black Wednesday Redux? Getting out of a European arrangement that initially caused economic mayhem, but proved self-evidently the right thing to do when it allowed the economy to power head. I could see Boris getting stuck in to deliver that. And at least the Tory MPs could remove him from Number 10 at a later date. The same can not be said if they have facilitated PM Corbyn.
An egregious failure of Government.
And better the prat than the Trot, every time - at least the prat can be moved out of Downing Street.
But even that pales in comparison to Hyufd's extraordinary claim on the last thread that there are ferries from Ullapool to Inverness. I still have a vision of the old Suilven steaming through solid granite towards Garve...
Vermionously vile, with a default lie setting, Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn are the perfect standard bearers for Brexit.
Elsewhere, the trend towards idiocracy continues:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/04/politically-motivated-italys-m5s-sacks-peak-board-of-health-experts
'Concerns have been expressed by the MHRA and by the Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry that there was insufficient cold warehouse storage to stockpile sufficient amounts of medicines such as insulin should the flow of medicines into the UK be disrupted by a no deal Brexit.
The Sec of State for Health (etc!) said: “Community pharmacies, like everybody else should support the prime minister’s deal, which will make sure that that eventuality does not occur.”
In the run up to the cabinet’s approving the draft Brexit plan, he reportedly told colleagues he could not guarantee that a no deal scenario and the medicine supply issues that could ensue from this would not lead to patient fatalities.'
Now I'm an optimist, and am sure it won't be as bad as worst case, but I'm only 'sure'. I've been in commercial situations where 'worst case', although considered unlikely, actually happened.
At the time it was a balance between politics and economics with the politicians deciding in favour of politics
There’s probably somewhere around half a million Brits who’d join them. They might fall a bit short of their sub minimum wage worker target, though.