Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » We could be heading for crossover in the “UK to leave EU on Ma

2

Comments

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,249

    I have also visited on a number of occasions. I would not say the climb was "gently sloping".

    Would be a bit surprising if it was, given there's a hydroelectric power station on the same slope.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,283

    rkrkrk said:



    It was rather more than 4.5m pounds, and apparently there was more matched funding again. This article gives a sense of what it was spent on. The local councillor seems pleased with it. Apparently there's now an excellent mountain bike centre, new art installation, lifelong learning centre, 7m spent on better road access, etc. As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/amp/

    I do love the way Google has made experts of everyone !!

    I just visit Blaenau regularly, so it is lovely to be corrected by an "expert" who can Google and lives hundreds of miles away.

    Yeah, next thing we'll be having Australians telling us all about Brexit....
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    ydoethur said:

    The problem with perception of places is that it is difficult to get a 'true' picture.

    An outsider might visit a town as part of a holiday trip, or even whilst owning a nearby holiday home, and see only the 'good' bits: they go to a few cafes, visit a museum, go to an outward bounds centre. They don't have to rely on the public transport, or the services, and rarely, if ever, go the dingy parts of the town.

    I feel quite favourably about Blaenau Ffestiniog, based solely on a visit to the Llechwed (sp?) slate caverns as a child that I loved and remember fondly (we still occasionally use the late coasters I bought there). It has been my only interaction with the town. I also know it as a terminus of the Ffestionog Railway. Put together, this means I have a generally positive feel for the place, based on totally spurious information.

    On the other hand, locals can get a rather negative and unfair view of a place they live in - some see only the bad, and the good is ignored, or sadly sometimes even inaccessible to them.

    Interesting game to play in Blaenau. As you drive through (very slowly because despite this much quoted article the roads are shocking) count the number of boarded up pubs.

    When you reach ten, with one still open, you realise this town really isn't taking in the big tourist bucks.

    Can also be done with 'For Sale' signs bs the number of derelict houses.
    There is though a lovely bookshop in Blaenau Ffestiniog, Siop Lyfrau'r Hen Bost. I always spend much money when I visit.

    And Blaenau Ffestiniog is prosperous compared to Ebbw Vale.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,722
    Foxy said:

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    I am even more puzzled by the reference to the "EU millions" being spent in Blaenau.

    Because it is an interesting example of how EU money is spent.

    There was a 4.5 million pound regeneration project in Blaenau Ffestiniog that was partly funded by the EU.

    The project was managed by Miller Research (

    Having been to Blaenau Ffestiniog many times over the last few years, the regeneration project has certainly improved the town.

    But it certainly doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds was spent. It looks like at most hundred thousand pounds was spent.
    The Westminster bubble lot just did not have clue what was going on.

    This video is Clegg visiting South Wales after the vote.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-39425373/nick-clegg-why-did-ebbw-vale-in-wales-vote-brexit
    Million Pound Cleggy hasn't got a clue.

    Blaenau Ffestiniog is wet and wild and proud and strangely beautiful, it just doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds of EU money has been spent on it.

    Ebbw Vale has also been regenerated by "EU millions". It looks desperately poor and dilapidated, with a high street of pound shops and pawnbrokers and tanning parlours.

    The only well-kept building, trim and newly-painted, is the Conservative Club.

    In what is called the shopping centre, there are some statues of emaciated Welsh dragons, poor and fed on scraps.

    God knows what the planners and architects and lawyers spent the EU millions on. Lunches, probably. Ebbw Vale really doesn't even look as though any money has been spent on it in the last twenty years.

    Good ole Million Pound Cleggy. And the LibDems actually don't understand why everyone laughs at them.
    Doesn't sound very appealing, but how is Brexit going to improve things?

    According to https://www.ilivehere.co.uk/statistics-blaenau-gwent-blaenau-gwent-4028.html it has a declining population, of low skills, high benefits dependency and only around 1% not born in the UK.

    Around a century ago Ebbw Vale was a boom town, but hard to see why that should return with Brexit, particularly a WTO Brexit.

    Blaenau Ffestiniog has a (rather good) Kurdish baker. He's presumably the 1%.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    IanB2 said:

    rkrkrk said:



    It was rather more than 4.5m pounds, and apparently there was more matched funding again. This article gives a sense of what it was spent on. The local councillor seems pleased with it. Apparently there's now an excellent mountain bike centre, new art installation, lifelong learning centre, 7m spent on better road access, etc. As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/amp/

    I do love the way Google has made experts of everyone !!

    I just visit Blaenau regularly, so it is lovely to be corrected by an "expert" who can Google and lives hundreds of miles away.

    Yeah, next thing we'll be having Australians telling us all about Brexit....
    Well, it looks as though rkrkrk (who lives thousands of miles away) is another foreign Brexit expert -- just on the other side to our Australian expert.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,626
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    It's possible, but I think Biden will struggle not to run if the poll is representative.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,249

    There is though a lovely bookshop in Blaenau Ffestiniog, Siop Lyfrau'r Hen Bost. I always spend much money when I visit.

    And Blaenau Ffestiniog is prosperous compared to Ebbw Vale.

    I always spend much money too, on trains rather than books.

    But saying it's more prosperous than Ebbw Vale is like saying somebody is less slippery than Blair.
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870

    Of course, when a town like Blaenau Ffestiniog is regenerated by "EU millions", little of the money is actually spent in the town. It mainly goes on consultants and architects, lawyers and planners, who have little actual contact with Blaenau.

    All of this rather begs the question of whether Westminster spends its money any more efficiently.

    My experience (from a few years working for a public body that regularly received EU funding) was that the EU spending was inefficient, yes, but it paled into insignificance next to the millions wasted keeping up with the latest fad from our own national Government.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    I am even more puzzled by the reference to the "EU millions" being spent in Blaenau.

    Because it is an interesting example of how EU money is spent.

    There was a 4.5 million pound regeneration project in Blaenau Ffestiniog that was partly funded by the EU.

    The project was managed by Miller Research (

    Having been to Blaenau Ffestiniog many times over the last few years, the regeneration project has certainly improved the town.

    But it certainly doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds was spent. It looks like at most hundred thousand pounds was spent.
    The Westminster bubble lot just did not have clue what was going on.

    This video is Clegg visiting South Wales after the vote.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-39425373/nick-clegg-why-did-ebbw-vale-in-wales-vote-brexit
    Million Pound Cleggy hasn't got a clue.

    Blaenau Ffestiniog is wet and wild and proud and strangely beautiful, it just doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds of EU money has been spent on it.

    Ebbw Vale has also been regenerated by "EU millions". It looks desperately poor and dilapidated, with a high street of pound shops and pawnbrokers and tanning parlours.

    The only well-kept building, trim and newly-painted, is the Conservative Club.

    In what is called the shopping centre, there are some statues of emaciated Welsh dragons, poor and fed on scraps.

    God knows what the planners and architects and lawyers spent the EU millions on. Lunches, probably. Ebbw Vale really doesn't even look as though any money has been spent on it in the last twenty years.

    Good ole Million Pound Cleggy. And the LibDems actually don't understand why everyone laughs at them.
    Doesn't sound very appealing, but how is Brexit going to improve things?

    According to https://www.ilivehere.co.uk/statistics-blaenau-gwent-blaenau-gwent-4028.html it has a declining population, of low skills, high benefits dependency and only around 1% not born in the UK.

    Around a century ago Ebbw Vale was a boom town, but hard to see why that should return with Brexit, particularly a WTO Brexit.

    Blaenau Ffestiniog has a (rather good) Kurdish baker. He's presumably the 1%.
    Correct. He has a PhD as well (though not in baking).
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,249

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_P said:
    it's just weird more than anything. £11m is almost nothing at a time like this
    I am even more puzzled by the reference to the "EU millions" being spent in Blaenau.

    Because it is an interesting example of how EU money is spent.

    There was a 4.5 million pound regeneration project in Blaenau Ffestiniog that was partly funded by the EU.

    The project was managed by Miller Research (

    Having been to Blaenau Ffestiniog many times over the last few years, the regeneration project has certainly improved the town.

    But it certainly doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds was spent. It looks like at most hundred thousand pounds was spent.
    The Westminster bubble lot just did not have clue what was going on.

    This video is Clegg visiting South Wales after the vote.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-39425373/nick-clegg-why-did-ebbw-vale-in-wales-vote-brexit
    Million Pound Cleggy hasn't got a clue.

    Blaenau Ffestiniog is wet and wild and proud and strangely beautiful, it just doesn't look like 4.5 million pounds of EU money has been spent on it.

    Ebbw Vale has also been regenerated by "EU millions". It looks desperately poor and dilapidated, with a high street of pound shops and pawnbrokers and tanning parlours.

    The only well-kept building, trim and newly-painted, is the Conservative Club.

    In what is called the shopping centre, there are some statues of emaciated Welsh dragons, poor and fed on scraps.

    God knows what the planners and architects and lawyers spent the EU millions on. Lunches, probably. Ebbw Vale really doesn't even look as though any money has been spent on it in the last twenty years.

    Good ole Million Pound Cleggy. And the LibDems actually don't understand why everyone laughs at them.
    Doesn't sound very appealing, but how is Brexit going to improve things?

    According to https://www.ilivehere.co.uk/statistics-blaenau-gwent-blaenau-gwent-4028.html it has a declining population, of low skills, high benefits dependency and only around 1% not born in the UK.

    Around a century ago Ebbw Vale was a boom town, but hard to see why that should return with Brexit, particularly a WTO Brexit.

    Blaenau Ffestiniog has a (rather good) Kurdish baker. He's presumably the 1%.
    Correct. He has a PhD as well (though not in baking).
    So he uses his loaf in other ways as well?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,626
    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    I'm now torn between horror at your lack of principle, and a strong conviction that you should be elevated to the position...
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
    If he makes the debates, his uber-combatative style will be highly entertaining. And I would love to see a Trump-Ojeda debate.

    I'm not sure what kind of President he'd make, but am sorely tempted to put a few quid on next time I'm in the UK...
    250/1 as next POTUS with Shadsy, I couldn't resist...
    With odds-boost on Ladbrokes I just got 250/1 on Ojeda.

    He has declared that he's running.
    I really liked Ojeda. He had a brilliant back story and he was focused on real issues that affected peoples' lives rather than gender neutral toilets and the other bizarre stuff coastal liberals seem obsessed by.

    But he lost, just like Beto. I can't help feeling that the Dems need someone who won. People might well point to Lincoln who also lost his Senate race but that was a very long time ago and that campaign shaped the nation. I think one of the new governors of key States such as Evers in Wisconsin or Gretchin Whitmer in Michigan or even the re-elected Tom Wolfe in Penn must be better bets than interesting guys that lost.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    Beto or Ojeda would be good Veep picks
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,658

    Of course, when a town like Blaenau Ffestiniog is regenerated by "EU millions", little of the money is actually spent in the town. It mainly goes on consultants and architects, lawyers and planners, who have little actual contact with Blaenau.

    All of this rather begs the question of whether Westminster spends its money any more efficiently.

    My experience (from a few years working for a public body that regularly received EU funding) was that the EU spending was inefficient, yes, but it paled into insignificance next to the millions wasted keeping up with the latest fad from our own national Government.
    Perhaps you cannot buck the markets. What is a mining or quarrying town for, when the mine closes? How often do people really want to visit heritage historical sites?

    Leicesters garment mills are now derelict or student flats.

    One of the more interesting social history shows recently was this little gem, though as ever, it was the archive footage that made it:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bjftgj

    It is hard to see how those communities regenerate.

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    Shameless. But I'm in.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,249
    How's this for a truly awesome self-awareness fail?

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/11/10/georgia-governor-race-stacey-abrams-pushed-concede-brian-kemp/1959470002/

    "Stacey Abrams’ antics are a disgrace to democracy and completely ignore the will of the people," a statement from Kemp's campaign read. "Georgia voters have spoken. It’s time for Abrams to listen and concede immediately."
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2018
    Foxy said:

    Of course, when a town like Blaenau Ffestiniog is regenerated by "EU millions", little of the money is actually spent in the town. It mainly goes on consultants and architects, lawyers and planners, who have little actual contact with Blaenau.

    All of this rather begs the question of whether Westminster spends its money any more efficiently.

    My experience (from a few years working for a public body that regularly received EU funding) was that the EU spending was inefficient, yes, but it paled into insignificance next to the millions wasted keeping up with the latest fad from our own national Government.
    Perhaps you cannot buck the markets. What is a mining or quarrying town for, when the mine closes? How often do people really want to visit heritage historical sites?

    Leicesters garment mills are now derelict or student flats.

    One of the more interesting social history shows recently was this little gem, though as ever, it was the archive footage that made it:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bjftgj

    It is hard to see how those communities regenerate.

    The City of Pittsburgh to you.

    This is an iron and steel town that reinvented itself. Very prosperous, I was there over the Summer.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    Foxy said:

    Of course, when a town like Blaenau Ffestiniog is regenerated by "EU millions", little of the money is actually spent in the town. It mainly goes on consultants and architects, lawyers and planners, who have little actual contact with Blaenau.

    All of this rather begs the question of whether Westminster spends its money any more efficiently.

    My experience (from a few years working for a public body that regularly received EU funding) was that the EU spending was inefficient, yes, but it paled into insignificance next to the millions wasted keeping up with the latest fad from our own national Government.
    Perhaps you cannot buck the markets. What is a mining or quarrying town for, when the mine closes? How often do people really want to visit heritage historical sites?

    Leicesters garment mills are now derelict or student flats.

    One of the more interesting social history shows recently was this little gem, though as ever, it was the archive footage that made it:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bjftgj

    It is hard to see how those communities regenerate.

    It is even harder to see how leaving the EU will help them
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    ydoethur said:

    How's this for a truly awesome self-awareness fail?

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/11/10/georgia-governor-race-stacey-abrams-pushed-concede-brian-kemp/1959470002/

    "Stacey Abrams’ antics are a disgrace to democracy and completely ignore the will of the people," a statement from Kemp's campaign read. "Georgia voters have spoken. It’s time for Abrams to listen and concede immediately."

    Didn't Mugabe not tend to feel the same way? The US electoral system has so many similarities.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    edited November 2018
    So with Sinema’s win the Senate is most likely to end up 53-47 to the GOP, assuming the FL recount doesn’t change anything. That makes it just about possible for the Dems to take it in 2020 if they win the presidency (as getting to a 50-50 tie will be enough) but they need a very good presidential candidate.

    AL is almost certainly lost for them so they will need 4 pickups from the GOP.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,249
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    How's this for a truly awesome self-awareness fail?

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/11/10/georgia-governor-race-stacey-abrams-pushed-concede-brian-kemp/1959470002/

    "Stacey Abrams’ antics are a disgrace to democracy and completely ignore the will of the people," a statement from Kemp's campaign read. "Georgia voters have spoken. It’s time for Abrams to listen and concede immediately."

    Didn't Mugabe not tend to feel the same way? The US electoral system has so many similarities.
    Tomorrow being the first anniversary of the coup that toppled him at last:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/1-year-after-mugabe-fall-zimbabwe-asks-what-has-changed/2018/11/12/83d2fc8a-e665-11e8-8449-1ff263609a31_story.html?utm_term=.c1bb8a1b72cb
  • Options
    Good morning, everyone.

    I'll check the markets in a little while, to see if the odds have changed on another referendum.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,980

    Police have spoken to staff at Edinburgh Airport as part of their inquiry into the conduct of former First Minister Alex Salmond.

    It emerged in August that two women had made complaints to the Scottish government about Mr Salmond.

    Airport bosses confirmed that they were "assisting police with inquiries" into a separate alleged incident understood to date from 2008.

    LOL, they are really struggling
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    How's this for a truly awesome self-awareness fail?

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/11/10/georgia-governor-race-stacey-abrams-pushed-concede-brian-kemp/1959470002/

    "Stacey Abrams’ antics are a disgrace to democracy and completely ignore the will of the people," a statement from Kemp's campaign read. "Georgia voters have spoken. It’s time for Abrams to listen and concede immediately."

    Didn't Mugabe not tend to feel the same way? The US electoral system has so many similarities.
    Tomorrow being the first anniversary of the coup that toppled him at last:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/1-year-after-mugabe-fall-zimbabwe-asks-what-has-changed/2018/11/12/83d2fc8a-e665-11e8-8449-1ff263609a31_story.html?utm_term=.c1bb8a1b72cb
    I fear getting rid of Kemp is going to be a lot more challenging. If he looks like losing he just changes the electorate.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Now, now
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    I'm now torn between horror at your lack of principle, and a strong conviction that you should be elevated to the position...
    Now, now. My principles are toleration - if no harm caused - and freedom. All impeccably within the tradition established by JS Mill. After all, what harm does a choccie covered cappuccino do to others?

    (And it still leaves me free to shake my head sadly and silently at others’ odd choices......)
  • Options

    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:



    It was rather more than 4.5m pounds, and apparently there was more matched funding again. This article gives a sense of what it was spent on. The local councillor seems pleased with it. Apparently there's now an excellent mountain bike centre, new art installation, lifelong learning centre, 7m spent on better road access, etc. As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/amp/

    I do love the way Google has made experts of everyone !!

    I just visit Blaenau regularly, so it is lovely to be corrected by an "expert" who can Google and lives hundreds of miles away.

    LOCAL DETAILS SNIPPED FOR LENGTH
    I'm even further away than that! But you asked where the money had gone, and I told you. Sorry you didn't like the answer. If the council rebadged the money to support existing institutions that sounds very sensible to me (and perhaps surprisingly indicative of flexibility on the behalf of EU bureaucracy).

    I'm happy to believe the local councillor that the EU money has helped. It's also notable that the county was the only one in N. Wales that voted remain. That's suggestive of the idea that at least some of the local people think the money has been beneficial.
    You did not tell me. You quoted a puff piece in a newspaper that is mainly wrong.

    You said "As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to. " Please provide some statistical evidence.

    There is more to research than sitting thousands of miles away googling.
    You are playing the man not the ball. The evidence for the 100x claim comes from the article already quoted, which says per-visitor spending rose from 23p to £25. There's your 100x. That it is still only £25 presumably explains why this is not the Welsh El Dorado.
    https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,980

    daodao said:

    daodao said:

    ... There is no public transport between Maentwrog and Blaenau Ffestiniog, so not easily accessible without a private car. ...

    Despite public transport cuts, Arriva run an hourly bus service (3B, Mon-Sat) on the route Blaenau Ffestiniog to Pwllheli via Tan-y-Bwlch/Maentwrog and Porthmadog.

    https://www.traveline.cymru/uploads/OmniPDF/OWPDF__Merged_OT_Files-3_3B_X3_-_Porthmadog_-_Pwllheli_(ACYM_&_CAEL)-5/003MGY5.pdf
    It does not stop at Tan Y Bwlch, which is a steep hill side walk from Maentwrog.
    The bus stops at Tan-y-Bwlch Oakeley Arms, which is about 500 metres via a gently sloping paved driveway from the National Park Centre at Plas Tan-y-Bwlch. I have visited the gardens there on a number of occasions - they are especially beautiful in May when the azaleas and rhododendrons are in bloom. The Ffestiniog Railway station named Tan-y-Bwlch is some distance (at least 1 km) via a steep hill from Tan-y-Bwlch itself. Plas halt on this line also serves the National Park Centre, but again is a steep climb from the centre.
    I have also visited on a number of occasions. I would not say the climb was "gently sloping". Also, the rhododendrons are being eliminated from SNP as an invasive species (who knows, perhaps with EU money!)

    The Plas is the former home of the Oakleys. Like many such homes in North Wales, it is a white elephant, and has large maintenance costs for its owner, Gwynedd Council, which maintains an administrative centre there.

    The only point I am making is that the Lifelong Learning Centre that rkrkrk talks about so breathlessly is not in Blaenau Ffestiniog, nor is it easily accessible from Blaenau Ffestiniog without a private car.

    It has not been designed for the residents of Blaenau in mind. It is a pre-existing, former home of the local landowner that is mainly used by Gwynedd Council & the SNP authority.
    Was not aware the SNP were in power in Wales.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,249

    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:



    It was rather more than 4.5m pounds, and apparently there was more matched funding again. This article gives a sense of what it was spent on. The local councillor seems pleased with it. Apparently there's now an excellent mountain bike centre, new art installation, lifelong learning centre, 7m spent on better road access, etc. As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/amp/

    I do love the way Google has made experts of everyone !!

    I just visit Blaenau regularly, so it is lovely to be corrected by an "expert" who can Google and lives hundreds of miles away.

    LOCAL DETAILS SNIPPED FOR LENGTH
    I'm even further away than that! But you asked where the money had gone, and I told you. Sorry you didn't like the answer. If the council rebadged the money to support existing institutions that sounds very sensible to me (and perhaps surprisingly indicative of flexibility on the behalf of EU bureaucracy).

    I'm happy to believe the local councillor that the EU money has helped. It's also notable that the county was the only one in N. Wales that voted remain. That's suggestive of the idea that at least some of the local people think the money has been beneficial.
    You did not tell me. You quoted a puff piece in a newspaper that is mainly wrong.

    You said "As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to. " Please provide some statistical evidence.

    There is more to research than sitting thousands of miles away googling.
    You are playing the man not the ball. The evidence for the 100x claim comes from the article already quoted, which says per-visitor spending rose from 23p to £25. There's your 100x. That it is still only £25 presumably explains why this is not the Welsh El Dorado.
    https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/
    I have to wonder whether that rise is because with new parking facilities available people are catching the Ffestiniog at Blaenau instead of Porthmadog or Minffordd.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,249
    malcolmg said:

    daodao said:

    daodao said:

    ... There is no public transport between Maentwrog and Blaenau Ffestiniog, so not easily accessible without a private car. ...

    Despite public transport cuts, Arriva run an hourly bus service (3B, Mon-Sat) on the route Blaenau Ffestiniog to Pwllheli via Tan-y-Bwlch/Maentwrog and Porthmadog.

    https://www.traveline.cymru/uploads/OmniPDF/OWPDF__Merged_OT_Files-3_3B_X3_-_Porthmadog_-_Pwllheli_(ACYM_&_CAEL)-5/003MGY5.pdf
    It does not stop at Tan Y Bwlch, which is a steep hill side walk from Maentwrog.
    The bus stops at Tan-y-Bwlch Oakeley Arms, which is about 500 metres via a gently sloping paved driveway from the National Park Centre at Plas Tan-y-Bwlch. I have visited the gardens there on a number of occasions - they are especially beautiful in May when the azaleas and rhododendrons are in bloom. The Ffestiniog Railway station named Tan-y-Bwlch is some distance (at least 1 km) via a steep hill from Tan-y-Bwlch itself. Plas halt on this line also serves the National Park Centre, but again is a steep climb from the centre.
    I have also visited on a number of occasions. I would not say the climb was "gently sloping". Also, the rhododendrons are being eliminated from SNP as an invasive species (who knows, perhaps with EU money!)

    The Plas is the former home of the Oakleys. Like many such homes in North Wales, it is a white elephant, and has large maintenance costs for its owner, Gwynedd Council, which maintains an administrative centre there.

    The only point I am making is that the Lifelong Learning Centre that rkrkrk talks about so breathlessly is not in Blaenau Ffestiniog, nor is it easily accessible from Blaenau Ffestiniog without a private car.

    It has not been designed for the residents of Blaenau in mind. It is a pre-existing, former home of the local landowner that is mainly used by Gwynedd Council & the SNP authority.
    Was not aware the SNP were in power in Wales.
    I was equally surprised in 2007 to find Snowdonia National Park had taken power in Scotland. Those pesky timeservers get everywhere!
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,626
    Cyclefree said:

    Now, now

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    I'm now torn between horror at your lack of principle, and a strong conviction that you should be elevated to the position...
    Now, now. My principles are toleration - if no harm caused - and freedom. All impeccably within the tradition established by JS Mill. After all, what harm does a choccie covered cappuccino do to others?

    On that, you have my full support.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:



    It was rather more than 4.5m pounds, and apparently there was more matched funding again. This article gives a sense of what it was spent on. The local councillor seems pleased with it. Apparently there's now an excellent mountain bike centre, new art installation, lifelong learning centre, 7m spent on better road access, etc. As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/amp/

    I do love the way Google has made experts of everyone !!

    I just visit Blaenau regularly, so it is lovely to be corrected by an "expert" who can Google and lives hundreds of miles away.

    LOCAL DETAILS SNIPPED FOR LENGTH
    I'm even further away than that! But you asked where the money had gone, and I told you. Sorry you didn't like the answer. If the council rebadged the money to support existing institutions that sounds very sensible to me (and perhaps surprisingly indicative of flexibility on the behalf of EU bureaucracy).

    I'm happy to believe the local councillor that the EU money has helped. It's also notable that the county was the only one in N. Wales that voted remain. That's suggestive of the idea that at least some of the local people think the money has been beneficial.
    You did not tell me. You quoted a puff piece in a newspaper that is mainly wrong.

    You said "As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to. " Please provide some statistical evidence.

    There is more to research than sitting thousands of miles away googling.
    You are playing the man not the ball. The evidence for the 100x claim comes from the article already quoted, which says per-visitor spending rose from 23p to £25. There's your 100x. That it is still only £25 presumably explains why this is not the Welsh El Dorado.
    https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/
    I have to wonder whether that rise is because with new parking facilities available people are catching the Ffestiniog at Blaenau instead of Porthmadog or Minffordd.
    I was wondering, given the still-low spend and @Foxy's asking who'd want to visit heritage sites, how many of the tourists were on school trips.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    malcolmg said:

    Police have spoken to staff at Edinburgh Airport as part of their inquiry into the conduct of former First Minister Alex Salmond.

    It emerged in August that two women had made complaints to the Scottish government about Mr Salmond.

    Airport bosses confirmed that they were "assisting police with inquiries" into a separate alleged incident understood to date from 2008.

    LOL, they are really struggling
    If he was that way inclined, and there were some rumours, I would have expected several additional women to have come forward. And they haven't. The gossip in Parliament House is that the procedures which he largely introduced will not be found to be article 6 compliant. But the Civil Service will presumably just start again if that is the case.

    I really can't work out what Salmond thinks he is achieving by this.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,626
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
    If he makes the debates, his uber-combatative style will be highly entertaining. And I would love to see a Trump-Ojeda debate.

    I'm not sure what kind of President he'd make, but am sorely tempted to put a few quid on next time I'm in the UK...
    250/1 as next POTUS with Shadsy, I couldn't resist...
    With odds-boost on Ladbrokes I just got 250/1 on Ojeda.

    He has declared that he's running.
    I really liked Ojeda. He had a brilliant back story and he was focused on real issues that affected peoples' lives rather than gender neutral toilets and the other bizarre stuff coastal liberals seem obsessed by.

    But he lost, just like Beto. I can't help feeling that the Dems need someone who won. People might well point to Lincoln who also lost his Senate race but that was a very long time ago and that campaign shaped the nation. I think one of the new governors of key States such as Evers in Wisconsin or Gretchin Whitmer in Michigan or even the re-elected Tom Wolfe in Penn must be better bets than interesting guys that lost.
    With only just over a year to go to the first contest, it could be difficult for anyone not nationally know to establish themselves, given that there are a good half dozen who already have. (Unless you're talking about the VP pick ?)
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    edited November 2018
    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    As someone who finds coffee less palatable than the Devil's mouthwash, I need clarification - will "all the chocolate that one could possibly desire" include hot chocolate? Say from Cafe Florian in Venice, or Cafe Sacher in Vienna? Marshmallows, no cream topping though.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:



    It was rather more than 4.5m pounds, and apparently there was more matched funding again. This article gives a sense of what it was spent on. The local councillor seems pleased with it. Apparently there's now an excellent mountain bike centre, new art installation, lifelong learning centre, 7m spent on better road access, etc. As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/amp/

    I do love the way Google has made experts of everyone !!

    I just visit Blaenau regularly, so it is lovely to be corrected by an "expert" who can Google and lives hundreds of miles away.

    LOCAL DETAILS SNIPPED FOR LENGTH
    I'm even further away than that! But you asked where the money had gone, and I told you. Sorry you didn't like the answer. If the council rebadged the money to support existing institutions that sounds very sensible to me (and perhaps surprisingly indicative of flexibility on the behalf of EU bureaucracy).

    I'm happy to believe the local councillor that the EU money has helped. It's also notable that the county was the only one in N. Wales that voted remain. That's suggestive of the idea that at least some of the local people think the money has been beneficial.
    You did not tell me. You quoted a puff piece in a newspaper that is mainly wrong.

    You said "As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to. " Please provide some statistical evidence.

    There is more to research than sitting thousands of miles away googling.
    You are playing the man not the ball. The evidence for the 100x claim comes from the article already quoted, which says per-visitor spending rose from 23p to £25. There's your 100x. That it is still only £25 presumably explains why this is not the Welsh El Dorado.
    https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/
    Yet again, googling and quoting a newspaper article is not evidence.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    250 is a big price ! I'm on.
  • Options
    AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    edited November 2018
    If we don’t leave in March 2019, it will be because there is no deal so bad that May won’t accept it. Even as a Leaver, I have to agree with Jo Johnson - the Brexit talks have proved to be a complete failure of British statecraft - the biggest since Suez and possibly worse than Suez. Meanwhile, May stands idly by as businesses leave the U.K. (why would they stay if we are going to be bound by a common rule book)and negligently fails to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

    The fact that the Tories seem unable to replace her and willing to see a Corbyn Gov rather than replace May speaks volumes for the political ineptness of today’s Tory parliamentary party.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
    If he makes the debates, his uber-combatative style will be highly entertaining. And I would love to see a Trump-Ojeda debate.

    I'm not sure what kind of President he'd make, but am sorely tempted to put a few quid on next time I'm in the UK...
    250/1 as next POTUS with Shadsy, I couldn't resist...
    With odds-boost on Ladbrokes I just got 250/1 on Ojeda.

    He has declared that he's running.
    I really liked Ojeda. He had a brilliant back story and he was focused on real issues that affected peoples' lives rather than gender neutral toilets and the other bizarre stuff coastal liberals seem obsessed by.

    But he lost, just like Beto. I can't help feeling that the Dems need someone who won. People might well point to Lincoln who also lost his Senate race but that was a very long time ago and that campaign shaped the nation. I think one of the new governors of key States such as Evers in Wisconsin or Gretchin Whitmer in Michigan or even the re-elected Tom Wolfe in Penn must be better bets than interesting guys that lost.
    With only just over a year to go to the first contest, it could be difficult for anyone not nationally know to establish themselves, given that there are a good half dozen who already have. (Unless you're talking about the VP pick ?)
    I think the candidate will be Kamala Harris. The early voting of California gives her an enormous advantage. But I don't think it is too late for the governor of a key state to become more prominent. It has happened many times before.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,249

    ydoethur said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:



    It was rather more than 4.5m pounds, and apparently there was more matched funding again. This article gives a sense of what it was spent on. The local councillor seems pleased with it. Apparently there's now an excellent mountain bike centre, new art installation, lifelong learning centre, 7m spent on better road access, etc. As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/amp/

    I do love the way Google has made experts of everyone !!

    I just visit Blaenau regularly, so it is lovely to be corrected by an "expert" who can Google and lives hundreds of miles away.

    LOCAL DETAILS SNIPPED FOR LENGTH
    I'm even further away than that! But you asked where the money had gone, and I told you. Sorry you didn't like the answer. If the council rebadged the money to support existing institutions that sounds very sensible to me (and perhaps surprisingly indicative of flexibility on the behalf of EU bureaucracy).

    I'm happy to believe the local councillor that the EU money has helped. It's also notable that the county was the only one in N. Wales that voted remain. That's suggestive of the idea that at least some of the local people think the money has been beneficial.
    You did not tell me. You quoted a puff piece in a newspaper that is mainly wrong.

    You said "As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to. " Please provide some statistical evidence.

    There is more to research than sitting thousands of miles away googling.
    You are playing the man not the ball. The evidence for the 100x claim comes from the article already quoted, which says per-visitor spending rose from 23p to £25. There's your 100x. That it is still only £25 presumably explains why this is not the Welsh El Dorado.
    https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/
    I have to wonder whether that rise is because with new parking facilities available people are catching the Ffestiniog at Blaenau instead of Porthmadog or Minffordd.
    I was wondering, given the still-low spend and @Foxy's asking who'd want to visit heritage sites, how many of the tourists were on school trips.
    That is also a good point, but its remote location means day trips wouldn't happen. Residential trips would go there I think, but there aren't as many of those.

    Have a good morning.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    I’
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Police have spoken to staff at Edinburgh Airport as part of their inquiry into the conduct of former First Minister Alex Salmond.

    It emerged in August that two women had made complaints to the Scottish government about Mr Salmond.

    Airport bosses confirmed that they were "assisting police with inquiries" into a separate alleged incident understood to date from 2008.

    LOL, they are really struggling
    If he was that way inclined, and there were some rumours, I would have expected several additional women to have come forward. And they haven't. The gossip in Parliament House is that the procedures which he largely introduced will not be found to be article 6 compliant. But the Civil Service will presumably just start again if that is the case.

    I really can't work out what Salmond thinks he is achieving by this.
    I’m a bit gobsmacked by the allegations against Lord Lester. I worked with him many years ago. He was very much in favour of promoting women lawyers but always behaved impeccably in my experience. And he has done such good work to help women, both in legislation and in mentoring individual women.

    Really sad if he suddenly lost his judgment and misbehaved in the way alleged.
  • Options

    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:



    It was rather more than 4.5m pounds, and apparently there was more matched funding again. This article gives a sense of what it was spent on. The local councillor seems pleased with it. Apparently there's now an excellent mountain bike centre, new art installation, lifelong learning centre, 7m spent on better road access, etc. As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/amp/

    I do love the way Google has made experts of everyone !!

    I just visit Blaenau regularly, so it is lovely to be corrected by an "expert" who can Google and lives hundreds of miles away.

    LOCAL DETAILS SNIPPED FOR LENGTH
    I'm even further away than that! But you asked where the money had gone, and I told you. Sorry you didn't like the answer. If the council rebadged the money to support existing institutions that sounds very sensible to me (and perhaps surprisingly indicative of flexibility on the behalf of EU bureaucracy).

    I'm happy to believe the local councillor that the EU money has helped. It's also notable that the county was the only one in N. Wales that voted remain. That's suggestive of the idea that at least some of the local people think the money has been beneficial.
    You did not tell me. You quoted a puff piece in a newspaper that is mainly wrong.

    You said "As a result, tourists now spend 100x per head more than they used to. " Please provide some statistical evidence.

    There is more to research than sitting thousands of miles away googling.
    You are playing the man not the ball. The evidence for the 100x claim comes from the article already quoted, which says per-visitor spending rose from 23p to £25. There's your 100x. That it is still only £25 presumably explains why this is not the Welsh El Dorado.
    https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/next-welsh-town-4800-got-millions-eu/
    Yet again, googling and quoting a newspaper article is not evidence.
    Yes it is. It may be a misprint or wrong or misleading but it is evidence. Otoh merely living nearby is not. If you have evidence that the quoted spending figures are wrong, then what are the right figures?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,980
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Police have spoken to staff at Edinburgh Airport as part of their inquiry into the conduct of former First Minister Alex Salmond.

    It emerged in August that two women had made complaints to the Scottish government about Mr Salmond.

    Airport bosses confirmed that they were "assisting police with inquiries" into a separate alleged incident understood to date from 2008.

    LOL, they are really struggling
    If he was that way inclined, and there were some rumours, I would have expected several additional women to have come forward. And they haven't. The gossip in Parliament House is that the procedures which he largely introduced will not be found to be article 6 compliant. But the Civil Service will presumably just start again if that is the case.

    I really can't work out what Salmond thinks he is achieving by this.
    Hard to see what any of them are David. It looks just like muck raking and can understand why he is miffed. Will come to nothing but the SNP will be the losers.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    malcolmg said:

    daodao said:

    daodao said:

    ... There is no public transport between Maentwrog and Blaenau Ffestiniog, so not easily accessible without a private car. ...

    Despite public transport cuts, Arriva run an hourly bus service (3B, Mon-Sat) on the route Blaenau Ffestiniog to Pwllheli via Tan-y-Bwlch/Maentwrog and Porthmadog.

    https://www.traveline.cymru/uploads/OmniPDF/OWPDF__Merged_OT_Files-3_3B_X3_-_Porthmadog_-_Pwllheli_(ACYM_&_CAEL)-5/003MGY5.pdf
    It does not stop at Tan Y Bwlch, which is a steep hill side walk from Maentwrog.
    The bus stops at Tan-y-Bwlch Oakeley Arms, which is about 500 metres via a gently sloping paved driveway from the National Park Centre at Plas Tan-y-Bwlch. I have visited the gardens there on a number of occasions - they are especially beautiful in May when the azaleas and rhododendrons are in bloom. The Ffestiniog Railway station named Tan-y-Bwlch is some distance (at least 1 km) via a steep hill from Tan-y-Bwlch itself. Plas halt on this line also serves the National Park Centre, but again is a steep climb from the centre.
    I have also visited on a number of occasions. I would not say the climb was "gently sloping". Also, the rhododendrons are being eliminated from SNP as an invasive species (who knows, perhaps with EU money!)

    The Plas is the former home of the Oakleys. Like many such homes in North Wales, it is a white elephant, and has large maintenance costs for its owner, Gwynedd Council, which maintains an administrative centre there.

    The only point I am making is that the Lifelong Learning Centre that rkrkrk talks about so breathlessly is not in Blaenau Ffestiniog, nor is it easily accessible from Blaenau Ffestiniog without a private car.

    It has not been designed for the residents of Blaenau in mind. It is a pre-existing, former home of the local landowner that is mainly used by Gwynedd Council & the SNP authority.
    Was not aware the SNP were in power in Wales.
    Do they require their rhodedendrons eliminated? Is the SNP at risk from invasive species? (Unlike Snowdonia National Park...)

    I have been to Blaenau several times. My overriding memory is that each time, the weather was foul. Perhaps people have left for the sunlit uplands, rather than rain-lashed summits?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Oh

    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    As someone who finds coffee less palatable than the Devil's mouthwash, I need clarification - will "all the chocolate that one could possibly desire" include hot chocolate? Say from Cafe Florian in Venice, or Cafe Sacher in Vienna? Marshmallows, no cream topping though.
    Oh I think so. I am, occasionally (ie Xmas) partial to a really good hot chocolate.

    I do think that those disgusting Liptons tea bags so often found in Continental Europe should disappear. There will also need to be training on the critical importance of using boiling water not just hot water out of a tap.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    edited November 2018
    Cyclefree said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Police have spoken to staff at Edinburgh Airport as part of their inquiry into the conduct of former First Minister Alex Salmond.

    It emerged in August that two women had made complaints to the Scottish government about Mr Salmond.

    Airport bosses confirmed that they were "assisting police with inquiries" into a separate alleged incident understood to date from 2008.

    LOL, they are really struggling
    If he was that way inclined, and there were some rumours, I would have expected several additional women to have come forward. And they haven't. The gossip in Parliament House is that the procedures which he largely introduced will not be found to be article 6 compliant. But the Civil Service will presumably just start again if that is the case.

    I really can't work out what Salmond thinks he is achieving by this.
    I’m a bit gobsmacked by the allegations against Lord Lester. I worked with him many years ago. He was very much in favour of promoting women lawyers but always behaved impeccably in my experience. And he has done such good work to help women, both in legislation and in mentoring individual women.

    Really sad if he suddenly lost his judgment and misbehaved in the way alleged.
    The evidence seems overwhelming. I fear that age has diminished his judgement. I would have expected him to retire now rather than face a Bar investigation.
  • Options
    currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171

    If we don’t leave in March 2019, it will be because there is no deal so bad that May won’t accept it. Even as a Leaver, I have to agree with Jo Johnson - the Brexit talks have proved to be a complete failure of British statecraft - the biggest since Suez and possibly worse than Suez. Meanwhile, May stands idly by as businesses leave the U.K. (why would they stay if we are going to be bound by a common rule book)and negligently fails to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

    The fact that the Tories seem unable to replace her and willing to see a Corbyn Gov rather than replace May speaks volumes for the political ineptness of today’s Tory parliamentary party.

    Im interested in how you think you can negotiate with an organisation that will not give any concessions? Its like blaming the police for failing to talk a man down from a high building who is determined to kill himself.
    I really don't think May is standing idly by. It seems to me that she is doing all that she can in what is an incredibly difficult position where all sides are criticising but not giving any solutions.
    It is so easy to criticise, it is much much harder to provide a solution.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Cyclefree said:

    Oh

    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    As someone who finds coffee less palatable than the Devil's mouthwash, I need clarification - will "all the chocolate that one could possibly desire" include hot chocolate? Say from Cafe Florian in Venice, or Cafe Sacher in Vienna? Marshmallows, no cream topping though.
    Oh I think so. I am, occasionally (ie Xmas) partial to a really good hot chocolate.

    I do think that those disgusting Liptons tea bags so often found in Continental Europe should disappear. There will also need to be training on the critical importance of using boiling water not just hot water out of a tap.
    Hang on if we’re banning Yellow Lipton tea where do I sign up? Is this part of Mays Brexit deal? If so I am in.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
    If he makes the debates, his uber-combatative style will be highly entertaining. And I would love to see a Trump-Ojeda debate.

    I'm not sure what kind of President he'd make, but am sorely tempted to put a few quid on next time I'm in the UK...
    250/1 as next POTUS with Shadsy, I couldn't resist...
    With odds-boost on Ladbrokes I just got 250/1 on Ojeda.

    He has declared that he's running.
    I really liked Ojeda. He had a brilliant back story and he was focused on real issues that affected peoples' lives rather than gender neutral toilets and the other bizarre stuff coastal liberals seem obsessed by.

    But he lost, just like Beto. I can't help feeling that the Dems need someone who won. People might well point to Lincoln who also lost his Senate race but that was a very long time ago and that campaign shaped the nation. I think one of the new governors of key States such as Evers in Wisconsin or Gretchin Whitmer in Michigan or even the re-elected Tom Wolfe in Penn must be better bets than interesting guys that lost.
    With only just over a year to go to the first contest, it could be difficult for anyone not nationally know to establish themselves, given that there are a good half dozen who already have. (Unless you're talking about the VP pick ?)
    I think the candidate will be Kamala Harris. The early voting of California gives her an enormous advantage. But I don't think it is too late for the governor of a key state to become more prominent. It has happened many times before.
    It has to be someone on the progressive wing. The base feel Bernie Sanders was robbed by the Democratic establishment in 2016 and won't let it happen again and they will have money via the likes of Steyer. If that is the case, Trump should win again in 2020.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,031
    currystar said:

    If we don’t leave in March 2019, it will be because there is no deal so bad that May won’t accept it. Even as a Leaver, I have to agree with Jo Johnson - the Brexit talks have proved to be a complete failure of British statecraft - the biggest since Suez and possibly worse than Suez. Meanwhile, May stands idly by as businesses leave the U.K. (why would they stay if we are going to be bound by a common rule book)and negligently fails to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

    The fact that the Tories seem unable to replace her and willing to see a Corbyn Gov rather than replace May speaks volumes for the political ineptness of today’s Tory parliamentary party.

    Im interested in how you think you can negotiate with an organisation that will not give any concessions? Its like blaming the police for failing to talk a man down from a high building who is determined to kill himself.
    I really don't think May is standing idly by. It seems to me that she is doing all that she can in what is an incredibly difficult position where all sides are criticising but not giving any solutions.
    It is so easy to criticise, it is much much harder to provide a solution.
    "Im interested in how you think you can negotiate with an organisation that will not give any concessions? "

    Enough of internal Conservative Party politics ... ;)
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172



    Yes it is. It may be a misprint or wrong or misleading but it is evidence. Otoh merely living nearby is not. If you have evidence that the quoted spending figures are wrong, then what are the right figures?

    As I have pointed out, the article is riddled with inaccuracies and half-truths. That suggests any data quoted are suspect.

    The journalist is (I believe) quoting a politician. If you want to believe politicians without any questioning, then fine.

    Perhaps a more thoughtful investigator than yourself might ask how the data was even acquired. How would you even go about demonstrating this alleged fact?

    You are yet another example of someone telling people hundreds of miles away that their day-to-day perception is wrong.

    When Scottish matters are discussed, I stay largely silent. I feel I don't know enough about Scotland and am happy to learn from the Scottish posters on pb.com. I recommend it.

    If you have not been to Blaenau recently, then I am not very interested in the results of your google searches. I can google for myself, if I want.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Oh

    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    As someone who finds coffee less palatable than the Devil's mouthwash, I need clarification - will "all the chocolate that one could possibly desire" include hot chocolate? Say from Cafe Florian in Venice, or Cafe Sacher in Vienna? Marshmallows, no cream topping though.
    Oh I think so. I am, occasionally (ie Xmas) partial to a really good hot chocolate.

    I do think that those disgusting Liptons tea bags so often found in Continental Europe should disappear. There will also need to be training on the critical importance of using boiling water not just hot water out of a tap.
    Hang on if we’re banning Yellow Lipton tea where do I sign up? Is this part of Mays Brexit deal? If so I am in.
    We may need to invade and conquer Europe to impose such policies but if they use hot water from a tap to make tea it is really for their own good. Even I, as a leaver, can see that. Presumably all remainers would like this reunification of Europe.
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    Foxy said:

    Of course, when a town like Blaenau Ffestiniog is regenerated by "EU millions", little of the money is actually spent in the town. It mainly goes on consultants and architects, lawyers and planners, who have little actual contact with Blaenau.

    All of this rather begs the question of whether Westminster spends its money any more efficiently.

    My experience (from a few years working for a public body that regularly received EU funding) was that the EU spending was inefficient, yes, but it paled into insignificance next to the millions wasted keeping up with the latest fad from our own national Government.
    Perhaps you cannot buck the markets. What is a mining or quarrying town for, when the mine closes? How often do people really want to visit heritage historical sites?

    Leicesters garment mills are now derelict or student flats.

    One of the more interesting social history shows recently was this little gem, though as ever, it was the archive footage that made it:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bjftgj

    It is hard to see how those communities regenerate.

    Indeed. In the 1950s, County Durham recognised this and decided to actively depopulate such communities, which it called "Category D villages". In some places they succeeded. But it was an intensely unpopular policy with the affected communities. A fascinating episode.

    https://sites.google.com/site/waggonways/category-d
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Oh

    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.



    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    As someone who finds coffee less palatable than the Devil's mouthwash, I need clarification - will "all the chocolate that one could possibly desire" include hot chocolate? Say from Cafe Florian in Venice, or Cafe Sacher in Vienna? Marshmallows, no cream topping though.
    Oh I think so. I am, occasionally (ie Xmas) partial to a really good hot chocolate.

    I do think that those disgusting Liptons tea bags so often found in Continental Europe should disappear. There will also need to be training on the critical importance of using boiling water not just hot water out of a tap.
    Hang on if we’re banning Yellow Lipton tea where do I sign up? Is this part of Mays Brexit deal? If so I am in.
    May is so useless she will probably sign a deal forcing us to drink Liptons tea.

    This is the 1:30 am campaign idly started by me during a bout of insomnia to make me Empress of a new French Empire, mainly because having an Italo/Irishwoman living in London doing that role, would be an amusing way of trolling the French who are far too po-faced with all that “gloire” nonsense for their own good.
  • Options
    currystar said:

    If we don’t leave in March 2019, it will be because there is no deal so bad that May won’t accept it. Even as a Leaver, I have to agree with Jo Johnson - the Brexit talks have proved to be a complete failure of British statecraft - the biggest since Suez and possibly worse than Suez. Meanwhile, May stands idly by as businesses leave the U.K. (why would they stay if we are going to be bound by a common rule book)and negligently fails to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

    The fact that the Tories seem unable to replace her and willing to see a Corbyn Gov rather than replace May speaks volumes for the political ineptness of today’s Tory parliamentary party.

    Im interested in how you think you can negotiate with an organisation that will not give any concessions? Its like blaming the police for failing to talk a man down from a high building who is determined to kill himself.
    I really don't think May is standing idly by. It seems to me that she is doing all that she can in what is an incredibly difficult position where all sides are criticising but not giving any solutions.
    It is so easy to criticise, it is much much harder to provide a solution.
    Really ? What do you think May is actually doing that is so worthy of praise ?
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
    If he makes the debates, his uber-combatative style will be highly entertaining. And I would love to see a Trump-Ojeda debate.

    I'm not sure what kind of President he'd make, but am sorely tempted to put a few quid on next time I'm in the UK...
    250/1 as next POTUS with Shadsy, I couldn't resist...
    With odds-boost on Ladbrokes I just got 250/1 on Ojeda.

    He has declared that he's running.
    I really liked Ojeda. He had a brilliant back story and he was focused on real issues that affected peoples' lives rather than gender neutral toilets and the other bizarre stuff coastal liberals seem obsessed by.

    But he lost, just like Beto. I can't help feeling that the Dems need someone who won. People might well point to Lincoln who also lost his Senate race but that was a very long time ago and that campaign shaped the nation. I think one of the new governors of key States such as Evers in Wisconsin or Gretchin Whitmer in Michigan or even the re-elected Tom Wolfe in Penn must be better bets than interesting guys that lost.
    Sherrod Brown.

    He is the very definition of a generic Dem. Male. White. Unthreateningly Pro Unions. From the crucial rust belty area.

    Stick a Southern black woman in the VP slot (all boxes ticked) and that ticket crushes Trump.
  • Options
    currystar said:

    If we don’t leave in March 2019, it will be because there is no deal so bad that May won’t accept it. Even as a Leaver, I have to agree with Jo Johnson - the Brexit talks have proved to be a complete failure of British statecraft - the biggest since Suez and possibly worse than Suez. Meanwhile, May stands idly by as businesses leave the U.K. (why would they stay if we are going to be bound by a common rule book)and negligently fails to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

    The fact that the Tories seem unable to replace her and willing to see a Corbyn Gov rather than replace May speaks volumes for the political ineptness of today’s Tory parliamentary party.

    Im interested in how you think you can negotiate with an organisation that will not give any concessions? Its like blaming the police for failing to talk a man down from a high building who is determined to kill himself.
    I really don't think May is standing idly by. It seems to me that she is doing all that she can in what is an incredibly difficult position where all sides are criticising but not giving any solutions.
    It is so easy to criticise, it is much much harder to provide a solution.
    The EU offered a number of off-the-peg options. The problem is that Britain and even UKIP and the ERG, let alone the Cabinet, has no idea what it wants.

    As an aside, the Irish border problems do not come from the EU but rather from the Good Friday agreement, the DUP agreement, and the nature of the UK itself.

    The solution is obvious. Suspend Article 50 and set up a royal commission to examine the options and produce a road map. Cameron should have done this before the referendum, and May before triggering Article 50, but it is not too late.

  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    She

    currystar said:

    If we don’t leave in March 2019, it will be because there is no deal so bad that May won’t accept it. Even as a Leaver, I have to agree with Jo Johnson - the Brexit talks have proved to be a complete failure of British statecraft - the biggest since Suez and possibly worse than Suez. Meanwhile, May stands idly by as businesses leave the U.K. (why would they stay if we are going to be bound by a common rule book)and negligently fails to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

    The fact that the Tories seem unable to replace her and willing to see a Corbyn Gov rather than replace May speaks volumes for the political ineptness of today’s Tory parliamentary party.

    Im interested in how you think you can negotiate with an organisation that will not give any concessions? Its like blaming the police for failing to talk a man down from a high building who is determined to kill himself.
    I really don't think May is standing idly by. It seems to me that she is doing all that she can in what is an incredibly difficult position where all sides are criticising but not giving any solutions.
    It is so easy to criticise, it is much much harder to provide a solution.
    Really ? What do you think May is actually doing that is so worthy of praise ?
    She is providing a masterclass in how not to negotiate. This will provide much work to historians, management consultants and psychologists and others. Books will be written. Students will be agog. And all for free.

    If we could only copyright and sell the government’s uselessness as a Terrible Warning to All, we would not need to worry about the post-Brexit economy.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    What is your policy on shoes?
  • Options



    Yes it is. It may be a misprint or wrong or misleading but it is evidence. Otoh merely living nearby is not. If you have evidence that the quoted spending figures are wrong, then what are the right figures?

    As I have pointed out, the article is riddled with inaccuracies and half-truths. That suggests any data quoted are suspect.

    The journalist is (I believe) quoting a politician. If you want to believe politicians without any questioning, then fine.

    Perhaps a more thoughtful investigator than yourself might ask how the data was even acquired. How would you even go about demonstrating this alleged fact?

    You are yet another example of someone telling people hundreds of miles away that their day-to-day perception is wrong.

    When Scottish matters are discussed, I stay largely silent. I feel I don't know enough about Scotland and am happy to learn from the Scottish posters on pb.com. I recommend it.

    If you have not been to Blaenau recently, then I am not very interested in the results of your google searches. I can google for myself, if I want.
    Then do so. Tourism statistics are collected by the Welsh and British Governments, and quite possibly by local authorities. I imagine some of them must be online. If you think the statistics quoted in the article are wrong, tell us what the true figures are.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Cyclefree said:

    This is the 1:30 am campaign idly started by me during a bout of insomnia to make me Empress of a new French Empire, mainly because having an Italo/Irishwoman living in London doing that role, would be an amusing way of trolling the French who are far too po-faced with all that “gloire” nonsense for their own good.

    This will make you love the French.

    https://twitter.com/astroehlein/status/1062197732268539905
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    edited November 2018
    DavidL said:


    We may need to invade and conquer Europe to impose such policies but if they use hot water from a tap to make tea it is really for their own good. Even I, as a leaver, can see that. Presumably all remainers would like this reunification of Europe.

    It was Europe's great loss that it was never absorbed within the British Empire. We could all have had one language (English), one currency (the Pound), one set of electrical plugs, one standard on tea-making temperature.....although heaven knows what pb.com would be left to discuss.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    The pinnacle of the human condition is the old lady.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    What is your policy on shoes?
    Are you angling for a policy commitment on subsidies?
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,169
    I have just heard Nigel Hawthorne on the radio playing someone called Lidington.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    Jonathan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Oh

    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    As someone who finds coffee less palatable than the Devil's mouthwash, I need clarification - will "all the chocolate that one could possibly desire" include hot chocolate? Say from Cafe Florian in Venice, or Cafe Sacher in Vienna? Marshmallows, no cream topping though.
    Oh I think so. I am, occasionally (ie Xmas) partial to a really good hot chocolate.

    I do think that those disgusting Liptons tea bags so often found in Continental Europe should disappear. There will also need to be training on the critical importance of using boiling water not just hot water out of a tap.
    Hang on if we’re banning Yellow Lipton tea where do I sign up? Is this part of Mays Brexit deal? If so I am in.
    Finally, something we can agree on!
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    Dundee may prove an interesting test case in respect of the benefits and limitations of tourist attractions. We have the magnificent V&A, the Discovery and the even more interesting Verdant Works. On the back of the first we have brought in quite a lot of new jobs in hotels, cafes and restaurants.

    But the City has just suffered a hammer blow by the announced closure of the Michelin Tyre factory, taking 850 skilled and semi skilled jobs out of the City. It follows a series of such blows going back to NCR, Timex, the printing jobs of DC Thomson, Valentines Cards and the take over of Wm Low. A huge proportion of the semi-skilled jobs in the private sector have now gone. Can tourism really take their place and generate enough cash to keep our shops and City centre alive? I have my doubts.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    I

    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    What is your policy on shoes?
    I love them!! I often choose outfits based on the shoes I want to wear that day rather than the other way round.

    One can never have too many shoes or handbags. And nice gloves and scarves.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,780

    currystar said:

    If we don’t leave in March 2019, it will be because there is no deal so bad that May won’t accept it. Even as a Leaver, I have to agree with Jo Johnson - the Brexit talks have proved to be a complete failure of British statecraft - the biggest since Suez and possibly worse than Suez. Meanwhile, May stands idly by as businesses leave the U.K. (why would they stay if we are going to be bound by a common rule book)and negligently fails to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

    The fact that the Tories seem unable to replace her and willing to see a Corbyn Gov rather than replace May speaks volumes for the political ineptness of today’s Tory parliamentary party.

    Im interested in how you think you can negotiate with an organisation that will not give any concessions? Its like blaming the police for failing to talk a man down from a high building who is determined to kill himself.
    I really don't think May is standing idly by. It seems to me that she is doing all that she can in what is an incredibly difficult position where all sides are criticising but not giving any solutions.
    It is so easy to criticise, it is much much harder to provide a solution.
    Really ? What do you think May is actually doing that is so worthy of praise ?
    She is at least trying to find a deal acceptable to everyone. It seems doomed and crap to boot but she is trying while others don't care about a deal and are content to risk crashing out without admitting that risk either because of partisan advantage to get a GE or in pursuit of a perfect brexit which also has no majority support.

    I don't blame people for being unwilling to back Mays crap negotiation but she has tried (left it too late but she has tried )and too many who will vote against are close to being liars as they make it seem their preferred option, be it remain or GE or hard leave new deal, would be simple.

    If they vote down the deal if we get one it's not enough to say May did crap. They need to be honest in how hard their alternatives would be.

  • Options
    F1: Constructors' market 2019 up on Ladbrokes.

    Ferrari and Red Bull are interesting to consider. Bottas is likely the weakest of the top teams' drivers. Ferrari are 3.5, Red Bull are 4.5.

    Hmm. Gasly's an impressive driver who is slightly under the radar because of the attention Verstappen and Leclerc receive. That said, Leclerc is a very good driver and up there with Vettel at Ferrari next year.

    The car matters more than the drivers, although if things are as competitive as expected then the driver does make the difference.

    We saw this year that Mercedes were willing to shove Bottas out of the way, and the Constructors' title was sealed a little time after the Drivers'. Team orders could be in play in every top team.

    Quite tricky to try and decide. I'll keep an eye on it.

    Incidentally, there's 8 on the UK to vote Remain in a 2019 referendum, but I'm not sure if that is a loss or voided if there's no such referendum, so I'm not betting yet.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Cyclefree said:

    I

    Cyclefree said:

    The Cyclefree

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Whether we proceed with Brexit or not the EU is clearly ploughing on regardless.

    French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire said the EU must become an Empire to rival the US and China but projecting its power to promote peace and protect the environment.

    'Power will make the difference: technological power, economic, financial, monetary, cultural power will be crucial. Europe should no longer shy away from playing its power and being an empire of peace.'
    It comes after President Macron last week called for 'a real European army' to protect the continent from growing military threats - including the United States.
    The French President said China and Russia were becoming increasingly powerful, and that the US under President Donald Trump could not be relied upon for defence.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6381521/France-calls-Europe-Empire-rival-China-US.html

    Well, if there is going to be a French-inspired Empire, it is obvious, n’est-ce pas, chers amis, that I should be Empress, what with me being a direct descendant of their last Emperor and all. I am a EU citizen, speak French, am half-Irish and Italian and live in the UK so can, like some wonderful new super-heroine, reconcile everyone with everyone else in lots of languages and, if they misbehave investigate them and tell ‘em off!

    I will await the call in Cumbria-Les-Deux-Eglises........
    There are worse choices.

    The Cyclefree regime will involve coffees of every type - with all the chocolate that one could possibly desire - for all!
    What is your policy on shoes?
    I love them!! I often choose outfits based on the shoes I want to wear that day rather than the other way round.

    One can never have too many shoes or handbags. And nice gloves and scarves.
    When Beryl Reid was building a character to play on stage or screen, she always started with the shoes.....
  • Options
    currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171

    currystar said:

    If we don’t leave in March 2019, it will be because there is no deal so bad that May won’t accept it. Even as a Leaver, I have to agree with Jo Johnson - the Brexit talks have proved to be a complete failure of British statecraft - the biggest since Suez and possibly worse than Suez. Meanwhile, May stands idly by as businesses leave the U.K. (why would they stay if we are going to be bound by a common rule book)and negligently fails to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

    The fact that the Tories seem unable to replace her and willing to see a Corbyn Gov rather than replace May speaks volumes for the political ineptness of today’s Tory parliamentary party.

    Im interested in how you think you can negotiate with an organisation that will not give any concessions? Its like blaming the police for failing to talk a man down from a high building who is determined to kill himself.
    I really don't think May is standing idly by. It seems to me that she is doing all that she can in what is an incredibly difficult position where all sides are criticising but not giving any solutions.
    It is so easy to criticise, it is much much harder to provide a solution.
    Really ? What do you think May is actually doing that is so worthy of praise ?
    She is maintaining a booming economy whilst trying to negotiate the most complicated divorce proceedings ever, with an organisation that is intransigent in the extreme, whilst being criticised all the time by everyone. How she keeps doing it is beyond me. Can you imagine having a working day like she has everyday.at the moment. Her resiliance is incredible. What would your solution be ? And please dont say negotiate better.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    DavidL said:

    Dundee may prove an interesting test case in respect of the benefits and limitations of tourist attractions. We have the magnificent V&A, the Discovery and the even more interesting Verdant Works. On the back of the first we have brought in quite a lot of new jobs in hotels, cafes and restaurants.

    But the City has just suffered a hammer blow by the announced closure of the Michelin Tyre factory, taking 850 skilled and semi skilled jobs out of the City. It follows a series of such blows going back to NCR, Timex, the printing jobs of DC Thomson, Valentines Cards and the take over of Wm Low. A huge proportion of the semi-skilled jobs in the private sector have now gone. Can tourism really take their place and generate enough cash to keep our shops and City centre alive? I have my doubts.

    I stayed in Dundee when I went to the golf at Carnoustie. It did strike me as being quite run down.
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
    If he makes the debates, his uber-combatative style will be highly entertaining. And I would love to see a Trump-Ojeda debate.

    I'm not sure what kind of President he'd make, but am sorely tempted to put a few quid on next time I'm in the UK...
    250/1 as next POTUS with Shadsy, I couldn't resist...
    With odds-boost on Ladbrokes I just got 250/1 on Ojeda.

    He has declared that he's running.
    I really liked Ojeda. He had a brilliant back story and he was focused on real issues that affected peoples' lives rather than gender neutral toilets and the other bizarre stuff coastal liberals seem obsessed by.

    But he lost, just like Beto. I can't help feeling that the Dems need someone who won. People might well point to Lincoln who also lost his Senate race but that was a very long time ago and that campaign shaped the nation. I think one of the new governors of key States such as Evers in Wisconsin or Gretchin Whitmer in Michigan or even the re-elected Tom Wolfe in Penn must be better bets than interesting guys that lost.
    Sherrod Brown.

    He is the very definition of a generic Dem. Male. White. Unthreateningly Pro Unions. From the crucial rust belty area.

    Stick a Southern black woman in the VP slot (all boxes ticked) and that ticket crushes Trump.
    I'm certainly on him after a piece in the Newstatesman. Still available at 22 for nominee.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307

    DavidL said:


    We may need to invade and conquer Europe to impose such policies but if they use hot water from a tap to make tea it is really for their own good. Even I, as a leaver, can see that. Presumably all remainers would like this reunification of Europe.

    It was Europe's great loss that it was never absorbed within the British Empire. We could all have had one language (English), one currency (the Pound), one set of electrical plugs, one standard on tea-making temperature.....although heaven knows what pb.com would be left to discuss.
    Pineapple pizza and Christmas films for a start.
  • Options
    currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    Cyclefree said:

    She

    currystar said:

    If we don’t leave in March 2019, it will be because there is no deal so bad that May won’t accept it. Even as a Leaver, I have to agree with Jo Johnson - the Brexit talks have proved to be a complete failure of British statecraft - the biggest since Suez and possibly worse than Suez. Meanwhile, May stands idly by as businesses leave the U.K. (why would they stay if we are going to be bound by a common rule book)and negligently fails to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

    The fact that the Tories seem unable to replace her and willing to see a Corbyn Gov rather than replace May speaks volumes for the political ineptness of today’s Tory parliamentary party.

    Im interested in how you think you can negotiate with an organisation that will not give any concessions? Its like blaming the police for failing to talk a man down from a high building who is determined to kill himself.
    I really don't think May is standing idly by. It seems to me that she is doing all that she can in what is an incredibly difficult position where all sides are criticising but not giving any solutions.
    It is so easy to criticise, it is much much harder to provide a solution.
    Really ? What do you think May is actually doing that is so worthy of praise ?
    She is providing a masterclass in how not to negotiate. This will provide much work to historians, management consultants and psychologists and others. Books will be written. Students will be agog. And all for free.

    If we could only copyright and sell the government’s uselessness as a Terrible Warning to All, we would not need to worry about the post-Brexit economy.
    So what would you have done better?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,011
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
    If he makes the debates, his uber-combatative style will be highly entertaining. And I would love to see a Trump-Ojeda debate.

    I'm not sure what kind of President he'd make, but am sorely tempted to put a few quid on next time I'm in the UK...
    250/1 as next POTUS with Shadsy, I couldn't resist...
    With odds-boost on Ladbrokes I just got 250/1 on Ojeda.

    He has declared that he's running.
    I really liked Ojeda. He had a brilliant back story and he was focused on real issues that affected peoples' lives rather than gender neutral toilets and the other bizarre stuff coastal liberals seem obsessed by.

    But he lost, just like Beto. I can't help feeling that the Dems need someone who won. People might well point to Lincoln who also lost his Senate race but that was a very long time ago and that campaign shaped the nation. I think one of the new governors of key States such as Evers in Wisconsin or Gretchin Whitmer in Michigan or even the re-elected Tom Wolfe in Penn must be better bets than interesting guys that lost.
    With only just over a year to go to the first contest, it could be difficult for anyone not nationally know to establish themselves, given that there are a good half dozen who already have. (Unless you're talking about the VP pick ?)
    I think the candidate will be Kamala Harris. The early voting of California gives her an enormous advantage. But I don't think it is too late for the governor of a key state to become more prominent. It has happened many times before.
    Trump will likely bear Harris, a coastal elitist liberal from California as she is would go down like a lead balloon in the rustbelt.

    Though Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina are still before California in the Democratic primaries
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    If anyone has not seen They Will Not Grow Old I cannot recommend it highly enough. Utterly remarkable and moving.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,780
    currystar said:

    Cyclefree said:

    She

    currystar said:

    If we don’t leave in March 2019, it will be because there is no deal so bad that May won’t accept it. Even as a Leaver, I have to agree with Jo Johnson - the Brexit talks have proved to be a complete failure of British statecraft - the biggest since Suez and possibly worse than Suez. Meanwhile, May stands idly by as businesses leave the U.K. (why would they stay if we are going to be bound by a common rule book)and negligently fails to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

    The fact that the Tories seem unable to replace her and willing to see a Corbyn Gov rather than replace May speaks volumes for the political ineptness of today’s Tory parliamentary party.

    Im interested in how you think you can negotiate with an organisation that will not give any concessions? Its like blaming the police for failing to talk a man down from a high building who is determined to kill himself.
    I really don't think May is standing idly by. It seems to me that she is doing all that she can in what is an incredibly difficult position where all sides are criticising but not giving any solutions.
    It is so easy to criticise, it is much much harder to provide a solution.
    Really ? What do you think May is actually doing that is so worthy of praise ?
    She is providing a masterclass in how not to negotiate. This will provide much work to historians, management consultants and psychologists and others. Books will be written. Students will be agog. And all for free.

    If we could only copyright and sell the government’s uselessness as a Terrible Warning to All, we would not need to worry about the post-Brexit economy.
    So what would you have done better?
    Pick a strategy a lot sooner for a start. I'm defending May from most attacks as she is opposed by Mps not being honest about the risks and partisan positioning, but she did waste time having a GE and wait a long time to agree an internal Tory position.

    But stuff like cabinet members leaking they were against her position from the start? They can bugger off. At least Davis and Boris resigned rather than that cowardly stance.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,814
    Cyclefree said:

    She

    currystar said:

    If we don’t leave in March 2019, it will be because there is no deal so bad that May won’t accept it. Even as a Leaver, I have to agree with Jo Johnson - the Brexit talks have proved to be a complete failure of British statecraft - the biggest since Suez and possibly worse than Suez. Meanwhile, May stands idly by as businesses leave the U.K. (why would they stay if we are going to be bound by a common rule book)and negligently fails to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

    The fact that the Tories seem unable to replace her and willing to see a Corbyn Gov rather than replace May speaks volumes for the political ineptness of today’s Tory parliamentary party.

    Im interested in how you think you can negotiate with an organisation that will not give any concessions? Its like blaming the police for failing to talk a man down from a high building who is determined to kill himself.
    I really don't think May is standing idly by. It seems to me that she is doing all that she can in what is an incredibly difficult position where all sides are criticising but not giving any solutions.
    It is so easy to criticise, it is much much harder to provide a solution.
    Really ? What do you think May is actually doing that is so worthy of praise ?
    She is providing a masterclass in how not to negotiate. This will provide much work to historians, management consultants and psychologists and others. Books will be written. Students will be agog. And all for free.

    If we could only copyright and sell the government’s uselessness as a Terrible Warning to All, we would not need to worry about the post-Brexit economy.
    We will always, always need new program management frameworks as the previous ones become old hat for no particular reason, One based entirely on the approach used in the Brexit negotiations would still probably make HMG millions.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    Dundee may prove an interesting test case in respect of the benefits and limitations of tourist attractions. We have the magnificent V&A, the Discovery and the even more interesting Verdant Works. On the back of the first we have brought in quite a lot of new jobs in hotels, cafes and restaurants.

    But the City has just suffered a hammer blow by the announced closure of the Michelin Tyre factory, taking 850 skilled and semi skilled jobs out of the City. It follows a series of such blows going back to NCR, Timex, the printing jobs of DC Thomson, Valentines Cards and the take over of Wm Low. A huge proportion of the semi-skilled jobs in the private sector have now gone. Can tourism really take their place and generate enough cash to keep our shops and City centre alive? I have my doubts.

    I stayed in Dundee when I went to the golf at Carnoustie. It did strike me as being quite run down.
    Believe it or not the centre has had quite a lot of money spent on it in recent years although we have made the mistake of building new shopping centres without demolishing old ones. There are high quality jobs connected with the University, a smallish games industry and bio sciences. But the opportunities for Dundonians to earn more than minimum wage are much diminished and the public sector is ever more dominant. I am not sure what the answer is but I fear it is not tourism.
  • Options
    Calling the DUP:

    "To pursue, or indeed to sleep walk into, a no deal Brexit would unravel the carefully tailored economy of Northern Ireland and potentially leave it in tatters."

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/no-deal-brexit-could-leave-northern-ireland-economy-in-tatters/#.W-ndClklSUs.twitter
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,011
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    26% Biden 19% Sanders nobody else double figures. O'Rourke on 8% and Harris and Warren behind him on 5%

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995
  • Options
    Pro_Rata said:

    Cyclefree said:

    She

    currystar said:

    If we don’t leave in March 2019, it will be because there is no deal so bad that May won’t accept it. Even as a Leaver, I have to agree with Jo Johnson - the Brexit talks have proved to be a complete failure of British statecraft - the biggest since Suez and possibly worse than Suez. Meanwhile, May stands idly by as businesses leave the U.K. (why would they stay if we are going to be bound by a common rule book)and negligently fails to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

    The fact that the Tories seem unable to replace her and willing to see a Corbyn Gov rather than replace May speaks volumes for the political ineptness of today’s Tory parliamentary party.

    Im interested in how you think you can negotiate with an organisation that will not give any concessions? Its like blaming the police for failing to talk a man down from a high building who is determined to kill himself.
    I really don't think May is standing idly by. It seems to me that she is doing all that she can in what is an incredibly difficult position where all sides are criticising but not giving any solutions.
    It is so easy to criticise, it is much much harder to provide a solution.
    Really ? What do you think May is actually doing that is so worthy of praise ?
    She is providing a masterclass in how not to negotiate. This will provide much work to historians, management consultants and psychologists and others. Books will be written. Students will be agog. And all for free.

    If we could only copyright and sell the government’s uselessness as a Terrible Warning to All, we would not need to worry about the post-Brexit economy.
    We will always, always need new program management frameworks as the previous ones become old hat for no particular reason, One based entirely on the approach used in the Brexit negotiations would still probably make HMG millions.
    HMG will need millions to pay for the public inquiry into this disaster.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307

    Calling the DUP:

    "To pursue, or indeed to sleep walk into, a no deal Brexit would unravel the carefully tailored economy of Northern Ireland and potentially leave it in tatters."

    http://ukandeu.ac.uk/no-deal-brexit-could-leave-northern-ireland-economy-in-tatters/#.W-ndClklSUs.twitter

    "Carefully tailored"??? The NI economy is a disaster zone already, completely dependent on public subsidy from the mainland.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311
    edited November 2018
    currystar said:

    currystar said:

    If we don’t leave in March 2019, it will be because there is no deal so bad that May won’t accept it. Even as a Leaver, I have to agree with Jo Johnson - the Brexit talks have proved to be a complete failure of British statecraft - the biggest since Suez and possibly worse than Suez. Meanwhile, May stands idly by as businesses leave the U.K. (why would they stay if we are going to be bound by a common rule book)and negligently fails to prepare for a no deal Brexit.

    The fact that the Tories seem unable to replace her and willing to see a Corbyn Gov rather than replace May speaks volumes for the political ineptness of today’s Tory parliamentary party.

    Im interested in how you think you can negotiate with an organisation that will not give any concessions? Its like blaming the police for failing to talk a man down from a high building who is determined to kill himself.
    I really don't think May is standing idly by. It seems to me that she is doing all that she can in what is an incredibly difficult position where all sides are criticising but not giving any solutions.
    It is so easy to criticise, it is much much harder to provide a solution.
    Really ? What do you think May is actually doing that is so worthy of praise ?
    She is maintaining a booming economy whilst trying to negotiate the most complicated divorce proceedings ever, with an organisation that is intransigent in the extreme, whilst being criticised all the time by everyone. How she keeps doing it is beyond me. Can you imagine having a working day like she has everyday.at the moment. Her resiliance is incredible. What would your solution be ? And please dont say negotiate better.
    Economy is indeed strong. But not as strong as any other G7 economy. Suggests the whole region is benefiting from a "tide in" situation. As we saw yesterday with EU growth numbers, the tide may be about to change direction. We'll see what everyone is wearing, shoes included.

    Meanwhile, at least London will maintain its pre-eminence as a financial centre, post-Brexit.

    Oh...

    Cboe is establishing Cboe EU Equities (Cboe EU), a Market Operator in the Netherlands, for the trading of EU-listed symbols.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
    If he makes the debates, his uber-combatative style will be highly entertaining. And I would love to see a Trump-Ojeda debate.

    I'm not sure what kind of President he'd make, but am sorely tempted to put a few quid on next time I'm in the UK...
    250/1 as next POTUS with Shadsy, I couldn't resist...
    With odds-boost on Ladbrokes I just got 250/1 on Ojeda.

    He has declared that he's running.
    I really liked Ojeda. He had a brilliant back story and he was focused on real issues that affected peoples' lives rather than gender neutral toilets and the other bizarre stuff coastal liberals seem obsessed by.

    But he lost, just like Beto. I can't help feeling that the Dems need someone who won. People might well point to Lincoln who also lost his Senate race but that was a very long time ago and that campaign shaped the nation. I think one of the new governors of key States such as Evers in Wisconsin or Gretchin Whitmer in Michigan or even the re-elected Tom Wolfe in Penn must be better bets than interesting guys that lost.
    Sherrod Brown.

    He is the very definition of a generic Dem. Male. White. Unthreateningly Pro Unions. From the crucial rust belty area.

    Stick a Southern black woman in the VP slot (all boxes ticked) and that ticket crushes Trump.
    I'm certainly on him after a piece in the Newstatesman. Still available at 22 for nominee.
    I'd like to say I was tipping him immediatly post 2016 election.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:


    I think the candidate will be Kamala Harris. The early voting of California gives her an enormous advantage. But I don't think it is too late for the governor of a key state to become more prominent. It has happened many times before.

    Trump will likely bear Harris, a coastal elitist liberal from California as she is would go down like a lead balloon in the rustbelt.

    Though Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina are still before California in the Democratic primaries
    Trump barely scraped a win over Hillary Clinton in the rust belt states -- the winning margin was less than 1 per cent in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin -- so let's not get carried away with this factor.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016#Close_races
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    kle4 said:

    [May] is at least trying to find a deal acceptable to everyone. It seems doomed and crap to boot but she is trying while others don't care about a deal and are content to risk crashing out without admitting that risk either because of partisan advantage to get a GE or in pursuit of a perfect brexit which also has no majority support.

    Of course people care about a deal. The great bulk of MPs ideally want a deal that does not crash us out of existing trading arrangements, without anything settled in their place. The question though is what price you are prepared to concede for that deal? The ongoing imposition of trade arrangments might be accepted by some - but not that part of our country is effectively annexed and so cannot leave.

    May inherited a poor hand, but

    1. It was given to her by 52% of the voters - more of a mandate than she was ever going to get as a Conservative leader

    2. She shouted loudly to be given the ball, knowing it was a hospital pass

    3. She has since cocked up the basic mechanics of negotiating. Although I don't consider issuing the Article 50 notice when she did as a failure - there was no benefit in putting off discovering we can't get a deal until 2020-1. Industry, the City and investors need to know where we stand as quickly as practical. But she should have stared down the EU on their rigid "we do this before we can do any of that" nonsense. And very publically started the No Deal planning on Day One. Either the EU is concerned about reaching No Deal (in which case it would have shown our true grit and had it as a negotiating factor from the start) or the EU is relaxed about No Deal (in which case we would have maximised the time to get our ducks in a row - and have had a series of micro-deals in place from 30th March 2019). And I can see no likelihood of an extension to the Article 50 notice - why would the EU? They'd only give it if the extra time was used to get the UK public to vote for capitulation to the EU's terms. Given how ornery the UK voters have proven to be, there's a considerable risk they will decide to give the two-fingered salute instead.

    4. She has cocked up having a Parliamentary majority - and the votes she did get were on a manifesto pledge that we would be leaving the Customs Union.

    5. She hung on to the Chequers deal when even the Re-Animator would have given up on it

    6. The Irish border issue has been key since day one. Saying anything other than "piss off" to the backstop was a basic mistake under 3 above.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,002
    Jonathan said:
    I can't imagine May being so solicitous toward la doyenne. She'd have got Brokenshire to push her over so they could nick her house.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited November 2018

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    It is entirely possible that neither Sanders nor Biden ends up throwing their hats into the ring.

    Which means this will be a wide open election.

    If Ojeda makes the TV debates - which is far from a sure thing - then they will be extremely entertaining.
    Ojeda got about the biggest swing in the country it seems,and his official site is now Ojeda for President.

    https://voteojeda.com
    If he makes the debates, his uber-combatative style will be highly entertaining. And I would love to see a Trump-Ojeda debate.

    I'm not sure what kind of President he'd make, but am sorely tempted to put a few quid on next time I'm in the UK...
    250/1 as next POTUS with Shadsy, I couldn't resist...
    With odds-boost on Ladbrokes I just got 250/1 on Ojeda.

    He has declared that he's running.
    I really liked Ojeda. He had a brilliant back story and he was focused on real issues that affected peoples' lives rather than gender neutral toilets and the other bizarre stuff coastal liberals seem obsessed by.

    But he lost, just like Beto. I can't help feeling that the Dems need someone who won. People might well point to Lincoln who also lost his Senate race but that was a very long time ago and that campaign shaped the nation. I think one of the new governors of key States such as Evers in Wisconsin or Gretchin Whitmer in Michigan or even the re-elected Tom Wolfe in Penn must be better bets than interesting guys that lost.
    Sherrod Brown.

    He is the very definition of a generic Dem. Male. White. Unthreateningly Pro Unions. From the crucial rust belty area.

    Stick a Southern black woman in the VP slot (all boxes ticked) and that ticket crushes Trump.
    I'm certainly on him after a piece in the Newstatesman. Still available at 22 for nominee.
    22s? More like 50/1 with SkyBet for nominee and 100/1 for president.

    ETA: 66 years old? No real pezazz. Terrible voice. Can't see it.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    26% Biden 19% Sanders nobody else double figures. O'Rourke on 8% and Harris and Warren behind him on 5%

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995
    O'Rourke in a very good position by the looks of that poll to be honest. If what Cruz's campaign manager says about Beto's awesome ability to campaign voter by voter, county by county, is true, then he should walk Iowa and NH. It's nominee all the way from there potentially.

    But maybe Biden will persuade him to bide his time and join as VP on the ticket?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,311


    Snip

    1. It was given to her by 52% of the voters - more of a mandate than she was ever going to get as a Conservative leader

    2. She shouted loudly to be given the ball, knowing it was a hospital pass

    3. She has since cocked up the basic mechanics of negotiating. Although I don't consider issuing the Article 50 notice when she did as a failure - there was no benefit in putting off discovering we can't get a deal until 2020-1. Industry, the City and investors need to know where we stand as quickly as practical. But she should have stared down the EU on their rigid "we do this before we can do any of that" nonsense. And very publically started the No Deal planning on Day One. Either the EU is concerned about reaching No Deal (in which case it would have shown our true grit and had it as a negotiating factor from the start) or the EU is relaxed about No Deal (in which case we would have maximised the time to get our ducks in a row - and have had a series of micro-deals in place from 30th March 2019). And I can see no likelihood of an extension to the Article 50 notice - why would the EU? They'd only give it if the extra time was used to get the UK public to vote for capitulation to the EU's terms. Given how ornery the UK voters have proven to be, there's a considerable risk they will decide to give the two-fingered salute instead.

    4. She has cocked up having a Parliamentary majority - and the votes she did get were on a manifesto pledge that we would be leaving the Customs Union.

    5. She hung on to the Chequers deal when even the Re-Animator would have given up on it

    6. The Irish border issue has been key since day one. Saying anything other than "piss off" to the backstop was a basic mistake under 3 above.

    Massive misunderstanding of the situation.

    1. You compare the referendum to a GE but that's not allowed (by Brexiters) because in such terms people can vote again. Given it's more profound nature, it was not appropriate to consider only those on the "winning" side.

    2. Yes - she is a politician 99.99% of whom are in politics to make a difference/put into place your vision and this is done most easily as PM.

    3. No point whatsoever in shoulda, woulda, coulda. We are where we are. She didn't prepare for a no deal because she knows (we're coming onto your point 6) that No Deal simply is not an option. All sensible people know this. To have prepared for one would have been the most obvious, and expensive bluff evah. The EU is the immovable object. We are not an unstoppable force.

    4. Yes!

    5. It is the only game in town atm and if the EU relent and allow it then moreso it is the only game in town and will be voted through.

    6. Thorough and profound misunderstanding of the situation in Northern Ireland. Moreso as she indeed didn't commission MIT/Google/Facebook to develop the appropriate "smart" technology. To say nothing of the phytosanitary checks required.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,011

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:


    I think the candidate will be Kamala Harris. The early voting of California gives her an enormous advantage. But I don't think it is too late for the governor of a key state to become more prominent. It has happened many times before.

    Trump will likely bear Harris, a coastal elitist liberal from California as she is would go down like a lead balloon in the rustbelt.

    Though Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina are still before California in the Democratic primaries
    Trump barely scraped a win over Hillary Clinton in the rust belt states -- the winning margin was less than 1 per cent in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin -- so let's not get carried away with this factor.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016#Close_races
    Harris would be even worse than Hillary in the rustbelt
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,626
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:


    I think the candidate will be Kamala Harris. The early voting of California gives her an enormous advantage. But I don't think it is too late for the governor of a key state to become more prominent. It has happened many times before.

    Trump will likely bear Harris, a coastal elitist liberal from California as she is would go down like a lead balloon in the rustbelt.

    Though Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina are still before California in the Democratic primaries
    Trump barely scraped a win over Hillary Clinton in the rust belt states -- the winning margin was less than 1 per cent in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin -- so let's not get carried away with this factor.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016#Close_races
    Harris would be even worse than Hillary in the rustbelt
    And your grounds for that assertion ?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,011
    edited November 2018

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    26% Biden 19% Sanders nobody else double figures. O'Rourke on 8% and Harris and Warren behind him on 5%

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995
    O'Rourke in a very good position by the looks of that poll to be honest. If what Cruz's campaign manager says about Beto's awesome ability to campaign voter by voter, county by county, is true, then he should walk Iowa and NH. It's nominee all the way from there potentially.

    But maybe Biden will persuade him to bide his time and join as VP on the ticket?
    O'Rourke needs to win the 2020 Texas Senate race or 2022 Governors race before considering the presidency and I think even he knows that though VP may be possible as he has been a Congressman
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,031
    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:
    I can't imagine May being so solicitous toward la doyenne. She'd have got Brokenshire to push her over so they could nick her house.
    For God's sake man, cheer up!

    You'd hear a story about a kitten being rescued from a tree and you'd whinge about the type of ladder they'd used ... ;)
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Dura_Ace said:

    Jonathan said:
    I can't imagine May being so solicitous toward la doyenne. She'd have got Brokenshire to push her over so they could nick her house.
    I wouldn't bother trying a set at the Comedy club if I were you. You'd be booed off immediately
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    new thread
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    TOPPING said:



    1. You compare the referendum to a GE but that's not allowed (by Brexiters) because in such terms people can vote again. Given it's more profound nature, it was not appropriate to consider only those on the "winning" side.

    2. Yes - she is a politician 99.99% of whom are in politics to make a difference/put into place your vision and this is done most easily as PM.

    3. No point whatsoever in shoulda, woulda, coulda. We are where we are. She didn't prepare for a no deal because she knows (we're coming onto your point 6) that No Deal simply is not an option. All sensible people know this. To have prepared for one would have been the most obvious, and expensive bluff evah. The EU is the immovable object. We are not an unstoppable force.

    4. Yes!

    5. It is the only game in town atm and if the EU relent and allow it then moreso it is the only game in town and will be voted through.

    6. Thorough and profound misunderstanding of the situation in Northern Ireland. Moreso as she indeed didn't commission MIT/Google/Facebook to develop the appropriate "smart" technology. To say nothing of the phytosanitary checks required.

    1. The losers have had - and continue to have - no engagement with us actually leaving.

    2. What was May's "vision" to deliver Brexit? No-one knows. Still.

    3. "shoulda, woulda, coulda" determines how history is written. And how people vote in future.

    4. OK.

    5. You REALLY think Chequers is STILL the only game in town? "We've found him!"

    6. Varadker canning the work of his predecessor on this was unhelpful. Time (and diaries) will tell if it was his decision alone, or he was doing the work of the EU.

    I look forward to the people who spent 40 years secretly tying us into the "immoveable object" of the EU standing up to take the credit.... And in the absence of something else to coalesce around, Brexit in its No Deal form is the unstoppable force.....
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting early polling on the Democratic nominee shows Biden well out in front, followed by Saunders, with O’Rourke quite some way back:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995

    Of course it is a lot about name recognition at this point, but name recognition does matter...

    26% Biden 19% Sanders nobody else double figures. O'Rourke on 8% and Harris and Warren behind him on 5%

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/12/poll-biden-bernie-beto-lead-2020-dems-983995
    O'Rourke in a very good position by the looks of that poll to be honest. If what Cruz's campaign manager says about Beto's awesome ability to campaign voter by voter, county by county, is true, then he should walk Iowa and NH. It's nominee all the way from there potentially.

    But maybe Biden will persuade him to bide his time and join as VP on the ticket?
    Biden? I don't get pb's love affair with this man who is very old, a lousy campaigner who stuffed up two primary runs, and the ultimate Washington insider having been vice-president for eight years.
This discussion has been closed.