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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Both LAB and CON up 2 in the October ICM phone poll

SystemSystem Posts: 12,250
edited October 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Both LAB and CON up 2 in the October ICM phone poll

Just 27% tell ICM that believe "press should get on with regulating itself
64% say there should be to independent, external regulation

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,315
    Broken, sleazy UKIP and LDs on the slide?
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Leading questions on both Royal Mail and energy prices.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,735
    Funnily enough, the 42% combined Tory/UKIP poll share in the latest ICM is what the Tories alone got in the ICM at this time in the last Parliament (19th October 2008). The combined 50% that Labour and the LDs have got today is 1% less than for the October 2008 poll. Not sure what that tells us though!
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    This bit is interesting:

    More polarised politics may be deepening voters' commitment – 66% of Tory supporters now say they are certain to turn out (up nine points on the month), and 60% of Labour supporters (up three).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,315
    SouthamObserver said:

    Funnily enough, the 42% combined Tory/UKIP poll share in the latest ICM is what the Tories alone got in the ICM at this time in the last Parliament (19th October 2008). The combined 50% that Labour and the LDs have got today is 1% less than for the October 2008 poll. Not sure what that tells us though!

    Oops - almost forgot!

    ICM/The Sunil:

    Progressives 50%
    Tory/UKIP 42%
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Very solid polling from Labour.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    IOS said:

    Very solid polling from Labour.

    Repeat 100 times after me...

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,729
    Very consistent polling across the board:

    ICM (Today): 38/34
    Populus (Today): 39/34
    YouGov (Sunday): 39/34

    Pretty solid for both main Parties - Con only down 3% on 2010 GE in mid term and despite UKIP rise. Signs are Con support is firming up but Lab looks firm as well.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Scrap

    Main thing is we are killing the Tories in the marginals
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    I see the insane Bedroom Tax lurches from flaw to flaw - as an owner of a three-bed house I'd be keen to hear Esther McVey's ideas on how it can be swiftly and cheaply converted to two separate properties.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    O/T Compensation for miscarriages of justice: I think the government's got this one wrong and Jeremy Corbyn's amendment gets the balance right:

    http://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/oct/14/criminal-compensation-reforms-miscarriages-justice
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Do we have ICM without the Spiral of Shame weighting?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    IOS said:

    Scrap

    Main thing is we are killing the Tories in the marginals

    Really? How did this show up in the locals earlier this year? What were the most impressive "gains" you think Labour made on the basis of those results?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    RichardNabavi said:

    Leading questions on both Royal Mail and energy prices.

    Could the font on "LD -2" be any smaller :D

    LDs heading for a taxi..
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    tim said:

    All the supplementaries show how out of touch the PB Tories are,

    Do you have a link to the ICM tables? Couldn't find it myself. Ta!
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Neil

    I am using ashcrofts mega poll.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,826
    @Sunil,

    How about;

    Coalition: 46%
    Fantasists: 46%
    Complete Fantasists: 8%
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    IOS said:

    Neil

    I am using ashcrofts mega poll.

    Not tempted to test your assertion against real world results though? Because Labour failed to overturn some fairly small majorities in quite a few marginals in the locals earlier this year. Ok, differential turnout will be a factor but so too will UKIP's intervention and it didnt look like "killing Tories in the marginals" to me.

    Nor did it look like you were out working the Tories in Cornwall either...

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    tim said:

    All the supplementaries show how out of touch the PB Tories are, press, energy, Royal Mail and obviously the "use it or lose it " Stalinist collectivisation supported by even a majority of Tory voters

    Viva la revolution, Tory comrades.

  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    38/34/ the rest.

    Marginals may indeed be worse but then again they will be the most volatile by definition so still all to play for...

    Amazing how the PBtories get everything wrong on every issue and yet despite our massive influence the evil Blues are st ill within touching distance of what they scored versus the worst prime minister Labout felt like putting the blues up against ever ...

    Remarkable. Just how bad is Labour in opposition? Their failure to outpoll by double digits must surely be a mirror of the supposed terrible failure of Cammo vs Brown...

    Howzat!!
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Neil said:

    IOS said:

    Neil

    I am using ashcrofts mega poll.

    Not tempted to test your assertion against real world results though? Because Labour failed to overturn some fairly small majorities in quite a few marginals in the locals earlier this year. Ok, differential turnout will be a factor but so too will UKIP's intervention and it didnt look like "killing Tories in the marginals" to me.

    Nor did it look like you were out working the Tories in Cornwall either...

    Since when were local elections on derisory turnouts real-world?
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    @MikeL

    When does mid-term end?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    @Tim

    Perhaps sh
    tim said:

    Bobajob said:

    I see the insane Bedroom Tax lurches from flaw to flaw - as an owner of a three-bed house I'd be keen to hear Esther McVey's ideas on how it can be swiftly and cheaply converted to two separate properties.

    Quick bit of papier-mâché, one of the most bizarre statements in a day of comedy, Cameron is backing fox hunting, Osborne actually thinks 160 million Chinese watch Downton Abbbey and the best.

    @BBCNormanS: European Commission suggest there are more Brits claiming benefits in Spain than there are all other EU nationals claiming in UK
    @Tim

    Perhaps she is envisaging some sort of sharing arrangement - two families in the one house. The PB Tories would no doubt fancy that.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    CarlottaVance said:

    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

    If they have somewhere to move them then it could be justified. The problem with the Bedroom Tax is that there simply aren't enough smaller properties in most areas. I am surprised you don't grasp this basic flaw.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,758
    On topic.

    The Lib Dems, how long can they go on in this Zombie state. Surely they have to act at some point.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,061
    Mr. Jonathan, I still can't quite believe they'll only poll 12%. High teens at the lowest, I suspect.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Bobajob said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

    If they have somewhere to move them then it could be justified.
    Indeed. There isn't a single house anywhere in the entire country which is suitable.

  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Jonathan, I still can't quite believe they'll only poll 12%. High teens at the lowest, I suspect.

    That 12% will disguise much variability. Apparently they're only bothering with the seats they're defending plus a few targets. The rest may do well to reach even 12%.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited October 2013
    tim said:

    More bedroom tax cock up

    @ChaabanRabih: Figures from the first 5 months of the Bedroom Tax suggested ministers have significantly overestimated the savings!
    http://t.co/VOXMjygp7j

    That's actually very encouraging indeed. Even the Guardian - the house journal of vested interests - is forced to admit that even a study specifically looking for flaws still finds that the savings will be as much as £320 million in the first year alone. Of course, it will take time for the full benefits of combined savings and better allocation of desperately-needed housing to show through, but for the first year that's a pretty good start.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Bobajob said:

    @MikeL

    When does mid-term end?

    12 months honeymoon, mid term 36 months.

    Therefore mid term ends May 2014.

    Only my view.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Bobajob said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

    If they have somewhere to move them then it could be justified. The problem with the Bedroom Tax is that there simply aren't enough smaller properties in most areas. I am surprised you don't grasp this basic flaw.
    Why wasn't it a problem when Labour did the same in the private rented sector?
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    Jonathan said:

    On topic.

    The Lib Dems, how long can they go on in this Zombie state. Surely they have to act at some point.

    Act in what way? Trash their own record?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,758
    RichardNabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic.

    The Lib Dems, how long can they go on in this Zombie state. Surely they have to act at some point.

    Act in what way? Trash their own record?
    Whatever they're doing,it isn't working for them. Time to try something I'd say. A new face and some new polices.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    MikeL said:

    Very consistent polling across the board:

    ICM (Today): 38/34
    Populus (Today): 39/34
    YouGov (Sunday): 39/34

    Pretty solid for both main Parties - Con only down 3% on 2010 GE in mid term and despite UKIP rise. Signs are Con support is firming up but Lab looks firm as well.

    I think that's right - I'm finding a fair number of people who basically aren't engaging at all and probably won't vote or will maybe give UKIP a shot, but not many people who are BOTH interested and unsure how to vote. I can see the current polls remaining quite stable for a long time, as they have been already, with occasional breakouts either way turning out to be outliers.

  • FattyBolgerFattyBolger Posts: 299

    Cameron on hunting is a dog whistle tailored to a certain ukip demographic. Expect more ofths same
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Jonathan said:

    RichardNabavi said:

    Jonathan said:

    On topic.

    The Lib Dems, how long can they go on in this Zombie state. Surely they have to act at some point.

    Act in what way? Trash their own record?
    Whatever they're doing,it isn't working for them. Time to try something I'd say. A new face and some new polices.
    I agree - elect a new leader and take the party leftwards. Maybe then some of the LD >LAB switchers will return which might help Tory chances.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    I am surprised the Independent is not moderating the comments after this story.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/madeleine-mccann-search-man-pictured-in-two-police-efits-was-seen-carrying-child-on-night-madeleine-disappeared-8879621.html
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    A 12 poll rating for the Lib Dems is their lowest October rating ever for ICM. Previous lowest was 13 in 2011. No sign of a Lib Dem recovery, does not bode well for the EC elections next year. Loss of support of between 3 in 10 and 4 in 10 of their voters.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    FattyBolger said:


    Cameron on hunting is a dog whistle tailored to a certain ukip demographic. Expect more ofths same

    You must be joking! If more than 1% of UKIP support is from the hunting fraternaty I'd be very surprised. Cameron needs a lot more than that to draw even weak UKIPers back to the failing Tories,
    .
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Same council. A different news item. Perfect click bait for the Mail, I would have thought.

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/oct/14/young-single-mothers-focus-e15-newham-rehoused
    CarlottaVance said:

    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    @old_labour Aren't the tin foil hat sites the usual home of those comments?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    If I were to repeat a relative's views of the McCann case on this site, I'd be banned for life.
    dr_spyn said:

    @old_labour Aren't the tin foil hat sites the usual home of those comments?

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,311
    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 1h
    New York Times: "An astonishing £83 billion worth of London properties were purchased in 2012 with no financing — all cash purchases."

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 59m
    Central London property has become both a global reserve currency and a massive money-laundering machine.

    Not quite sure if Brillo thinks this is a bad thing or a good thing.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    The article states that the council has offered them a smaller place that meets their needs, so that does not seem to be the problem here.
    Bobajob said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

    If they have somewhere to move them then it could be justified. The problem with the Bedroom Tax is that there simply aren't enough smaller properties in most areas. I am surprised you don't grasp this basic flaw.
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    Bobajob said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

    If they have somewhere to move them then it could be justified. The problem with the Bedroom Tax is that there simply aren't enough smaller properties in most areas. I am surprised you don't grasp this basic flaw.
    What utter nonsense! Have you looked at make up of the social housing stock in this country? This is the drivel spouted by the left. The most common social housing units are one and two bedroom flats. These are filled with families in cramped conditions who are on a LAs transfer list desperate for a move to larger accommodation. In most areas people who under occupy properties are offered money to move by the LA. Anyone who is in a three bedroom house who wants to move into smaller accommodation can do it instantly. They will get their hand bitten off to swap by a family in smaller accommodation. Check your facts before spinning your party line
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Correction Lib Dems current VI with ICM of 12 is the lowest October figure since 1991. All time lowest was in 1988 with 6.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    FattyBolger said:


    Cameron on hunting is a dog whistle tailored to a certain ukip demographic. Expect more ofths same

    You dont think it's just back-peddling because they know they cant repeal the Hunting Act? Overall I'm not sure this is great politics for Cameron.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    It is understandable that people think the e-fits issued by the Met resemble someone closely involved in the case.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 1h
    New York Times: "An astonishing £83 billion worth of London properties were purchased in 2012 with no financing — all cash purchases."

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 59m
    Central London property has become both a global reserve currency and a massive money-laundering machine.

    Not quite sure if Brillo thinks this is a bad thing or a good thing.

    I think it's a good thing. What about you?

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098
    edited October 2013
    Lab might be holding up because EdM has played a blinder of late with the cap and his use it or lose it which aims to iron out the wrinkles in an unfair society appealing to hardworking families (plus of course miserable leftists) and hence no surprise for the firming of their support.

    Thing is, as GE2015 approaches, this will come to be seen for what it is - tinkering around the edges of an economy which has been saved from the Labour Party by the Tories.

    And much as that support will continue to push for some equalling out of our society it will dawn on many people, perhaps enough for an OM for the Tories, that if they vote in Lab they risk, at some point in the future, going through the whole thing again.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Correction Lib Dems current VI with ICM of 12 is the lowest October figure since 1991. All time lowest was in 1988 with 6.

    And the 1992 GE Lib Dem vote share was 17.8%
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    steve_garner said:

    It is understandable that people think the e-fits issued by the Met resemble someone closely involved in the case.

    They don't look much like Gerry to me.

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Left wing loon tells developers to use it or lose it.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    MarkSenior said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Correction Lib Dems current VI with ICM of 12 is the lowest October figure since 1991. All time lowest was in 1988 with 6.

    And the 1992 GE Lib Dem vote share was 17.8%
    That surge was for a party positioned as an alternative to the incumbent Govt. 2015 will be on a different basis.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    foxinsoxuk said:

    The article states that the council has offered them a smaller place that meets their needs, so that does not seem to be the problem here.

    Bobajob said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

    If they have somewhere to move them then it could be justified. The problem with the Bedroom Tax is that there simply aren't enough smaller properties in most areas. I am surprised you don't grasp this basic flaw.
    The case has nothing to do with the bedroom tax , it appears according to the article to be to do with the council occupation policy which was revised last year .
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    IRELAND must raise corporation tax, Germany’s second biggest party has insisted as it prepared to enter serious coalition talks with Chancellor Angela Merkel.

    "I’m very sorry for Ireland, but the corporate tax rate is simply to low,’’ SPD general secretary Andrea Nahles told reporters in Berlin.

    I can't see Dave getting far in his proposed repatriation of powers from the EU.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    MarkSenior said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Correction Lib Dems current VI with ICM of 12 is the lowest October figure since 1991. All time lowest was in 1988 with 6.

    And the 1992 GE Lib Dem vote share was 17.8%
    That surge was for a party positioned as an alternative to the incumbent Govt. 2015 will be on a different basis.
    Indeed The LDs face a three way squeeze. THE LD>LAB move OGH regularly alludes to, the underplayed LD>UKIP swing and LD>Tories as some right of centre LDs start to fear an Ed majority. And then there's Scotland. 12% next time quite plausible.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098
    old_labour said:

    IRELAND must raise corporation tax, Germany’s second biggest party has insisted as it prepared to enter serious coalition talks with Chancellor Angela Merkel.

    "I’m very sorry for Ireland, but the corporate tax rate is simply to low,’’ SPD general secretary Andrea Nahles told reporters in Berlin.

    I can't see Dave getting far in his proposed repatriation of powers from the EU.

    Huh?

    Have we ever asked Germany to bail us out? Is that a €20 note I see in my wallet?

    No and no.

    there is no comparison.
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    old_labour said:

    IRELAND must raise corporation tax, Germany’s second biggest party has insisted as it prepared to enter serious coalition talks with Chancellor Angela Merkel.

    "I’m very sorry for Ireland, but the corporate tax rate is simply to low,’’ SPD general secretary Andrea Nahles told reporters in Berlin.

    I can't see Dave getting far in his proposed repatriation of powers from the EU.

    How much does Ireland contribute to EU coffers?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    In 2010 Labour won 100% of the council seats in Newham, so this occupation policy was one decided by a Labour council.

    MarkSenior said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    The article states that the council has offered them a smaller place that meets their needs, so that does not seem to be the problem here.

    Bobajob said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

    If they have somewhere to move them then it could be justified. The problem with the Bedroom Tax is that there simply aren't enough smaller properties in most areas. I am surprised you don't grasp this basic flaw.
    The case has nothing to do with the bedroom tax , it appears according to the article to be to do with the council occupation policy which was revised last year .
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    foxinsoxuk said:

    In 2010 Labour won 100% of the council seats in Newham, so this occupation policy was one decided by a Labour council.



    MarkSenior said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    The article states that the council has offered them a smaller place that meets their needs, so that does not seem to be the problem here.

    Bobajob said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

    If they have somewhere to move them then it could be justified. The problem with the Bedroom Tax is that there simply aren't enough smaller properties in most areas. I am surprised you don't grasp this basic flaw.
    The case has nothing to do with the bedroom tax , it appears according to the article to be to do with the council occupation policy which was revised last year .
    Correct
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited October 2013
    When the LD share is so low you wonder why they pull their punches at Labour - can't teach an old white dog new tricks I suppose.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Reading between the lines, it looks like the deceased grandfather had the tenancy.

    Details on succession of a tenancy here.

    http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/when_someone_dies/if_a_tenant_dies/succession_rights
    MarkSenior said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    The article states that the council has offered them a smaller place that meets their needs, so that does not seem to be the problem here.

    Bobajob said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

    If they have somewhere to move them then it could be justified. The problem with the Bedroom Tax is that there simply aren't enough smaller properties in most areas. I am surprised you don't grasp this basic flaw.
    The case has nothing to do with the bedroom tax , it appears according to the article to be to do with the council occupation policy which was revised last year .
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    old_labour said:

    Reading between the lines, it looks like the deceased grandfather had the tenancy.

    Details on succession of a tenancy here.

    http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/when_someone_dies/if_a_tenant_dies/succession_rights

    MarkSenior said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    The article states that the council has offered them a smaller place that meets their needs, so that does not seem to be the problem here.

    Bobajob said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

    If they have somewhere to move them then it could be justified. The problem with the Bedroom Tax is that there simply aren't enough smaller properties in most areas. I am surprised you don't grasp this basic flaw.
    The case has nothing to do with the bedroom tax , it appears according to the article to be to do with the council occupation policy which was revised last year .
    The article says he took over the tenancy in July

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,311
    GeoffM said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 1h
    New York Times: "An astonishing £83 billion worth of London properties were purchased in 2012 with no financing — all cash purchases."

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 59m
    Central London property has become both a global reserve currency and a massive money-laundering machine.

    Not quite sure if Brillo thinks this is a bad thing or a good thing.

    I think it's a good thing. What about you?

    I think the activities that necessitate money laundering are generally bad things. I also think there's something vaguely demeaning about a grown-up economy basing a chunk of itself on suchlike.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    @Next
    @TOPPING

    If the SPD goes into a coalition government, I cannot see them giving the go ahead to changes in the working time directive, and would a renegotiation not need the consent of the other 27 members?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    From the Shelter article:

    For secure council tenancies created after 1 April 2012, there is no right for a family member to succeed, unless the tenancy agreement allows for it.

    http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/when_someone_dies/if_a_tenant_dies/succession_rights
    MarkSenior said:

    old_labour said:

    Reading between the lines, it looks like the deceased grandfather had the tenancy.

    Details on succession of a tenancy here.

    http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/when_someone_dies/if_a_tenant_dies/succession_rights

    MarkSenior said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    The article states that the council has offered them a smaller place that meets their needs, so that does not seem to be the problem here.

    Bobajob said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

    If they have somewhere to move them then it could be justified. The problem with the Bedroom Tax is that there simply aren't enough smaller properties in most areas. I am surprised you don't grasp this basic flaw.
    The case has nothing to do with the bedroom tax , it appears according to the article to be to do with the council occupation policy which was revised last year .
    The article says he took over the tenancy in July

  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    old_labour said:

    From the Shelter article:

    For secure council tenancies created after 1 April 2012, there is no right for a family member to succeed, unless the tenancy agreement allows for it.

    http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/when_someone_dies/if_a_tenant_dies/succession_rights

    MarkSenior said:

    old_labour said:

    Reading between the lines, it looks like the deceased grandfather had the tenancy.

    Details on succession of a tenancy here.

    http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships/when_someone_dies/if_a_tenant_dies/succession_rights

    MarkSenior said:

    foxinsoxuk said:

    The article states that the council has offered them a smaller place that meets their needs, so that does not seem to be the problem here.

    Bobajob said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    "A family of four are facing eviction from their home of more than 30 years due to a council policy to free up housing."

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/family_faces_eviction_from_newham_home_of_30_years_1_2881748

    Evil Tories!
    oh....

    If they have somewhere to move them then it could be justified. The problem with the Bedroom Tax is that there simply aren't enough smaller properties in most areas. I am surprised you don't grasp this basic flaw.
    The case has nothing to do with the bedroom tax , it appears according to the article to be to do with the council occupation policy which was revised last year .
    The article says he took over the tenancy in July

    I repeat according to the article he took over the tenancy in July . The council are according to that Shelter article entitled to remove them for under occupancy but must offer alternative accommodation . The article though seems to say that they cannot do this until 52 weeks after the grandfather's death so they seem to be acting a bit previous .

  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 1h
    New York Times: "An astonishing £83 billion worth of London properties were purchased in 2012 with no financing — all cash purchases."

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 59m
    Central London property has become both a global reserve currency and a massive money-laundering machine.

    Not quite sure if Brillo thinks this is a bad thing or a good thing.

    Stamp duty is really high 7% purchases over £2million. Not bad money for the mere changing of ownership.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098
    old_labour said:

    @Next
    @TOPPING

    If the SPD goes into a coalition government, I cannot see them giving the go ahead to changes in the working time directive, and would a renegotiation not need the consent of the other 27 members?

    I think we can expect to see a lot of mumbo jumbo and extremely technical "concessions" following any negotiations by Cam after GE2015 plus one easy-to-understand marquee measure affecting a UK eurosceptic hot button that will be used to declare a victory going into the referendum.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Theuniondivvie said:

    GeoffM said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 1h
    New York Times: "An astonishing £83 billion worth of London properties were purchased in 2012 with no financing — all cash purchases."

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 59m
    Central London property has become both a global reserve currency and a massive money-laundering machine.

    Not quite sure if Brillo thinks this is a bad thing or a good thing.

    I think it's a good thing. What about you?

    I think the activities that necessitate money laundering are generally bad things. I also think there's something vaguely demeaning about a grown-up economy basing a chunk of itself on suchlike.
    London's global preeminence really gets the Nats' goat like nothing else.

    It's a constant source of joy.

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    TGOHF said:

    When the LD share is so low you wonder why they pull their punches at Labour - can't teach an old white dog new tricks I suppose.

    National vote share matters not with first past the post. There's no point in having hundreds of second places - you need to win seats.

    As the massive Ashcroft phone poll showed the LDs are doing well where they need to be - in CON-LD battlesgrounds and in some of the other seats they'll be defending. Elsewhere they will do appallingly.

    I'm betting that the LDs will suffer 150+ lost deposits.

    I can see a situation where UKIP come in third place on votes with only one or two seats. The LDs in fourth place could have 35-45 seats including one or two gains from the Tories.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited October 2013
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 1h
    New York Times: "An astonishing £83 billion worth of London properties were purchased in 2012 with no financing — all cash purchases."

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 59m
    Central London property has become both a global reserve currency and a massive money-laundering machine.

    Not quite sure if Brillo thinks this is a bad thing or a good thing.

    This sounds a very big number but it is not counter-intuitive.

    Say the properties bought averaged £2.5 million each then this would suggest around 33,000 properties were sold out of a total of 3.8 million private dwellings in the London Boroughs. If the average was £1.5 million we are talking around 55,300 properties.

    Many of the purchases would have been the two prime boroughs of RBKC and Westminister, but a substantial proportion will have been in Camden, Richmond, Kingston, Wandsworth, Hammersmith and Fulham.

    The big two have 65,000 and 92,000 private dwellingss respectively and the second tier average around 60,000 apiece.

    So the feeling on the ground will be that around one in ten properties in the prime boroughs were sold to foreigners last year with about one in twenty in the second tier boroughs. This level of demand is consistent with a 10% increase in property prices over the period.

    As for property being a suitable destination for "laundered money", this stretches credulity a little. The prime property market is not very liquid, ownership is registered by a range of authorities, legal action can relatively easily taken to frustrate sales and property wealth is highly visible.

  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Evening all, regarding our friends the Yellow Peril, we know an increasing number of the old timers have decided to hang up their parliamentary swords and return to their shooting lodges or expect elevation to the red benches. There is a great deal of speculation about those who can expect to be put to the sword by the ungrateful voters in hitherto urban Labour seats (possibly Simon Hughes excepted). As they have no fewer than 27 seats which would fall on a 5% swing, are there serious prospects of defection to either the Tory or Labour parties by any LibDem MPs (Jeremy Browne excluded since having heard about his potential jump, it is less likely to happen)?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,519
    In Australia, Tanya Pilbersek is elected Labor's deputy leader following Bill Shorten's election as Kevin Rudd's successor as leader on Sunday. Several left faction former Ministers who did not back Shorten's opponent, Anthony Albanese, have been voted out of the Shadow Cabinet, with full positions, including that to be given to Albanese, to be announced on Friday.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-14/labor-mps-slam-factional-cabals-in-frontbench-voting/5021804
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    AveryLP said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 1h
    New York Times: "An astonishing £83 billion worth of London properties were purchased in 2012 with no financing — all cash purchases."

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 59m
    Central London property has become both a global reserve currency and a massive money-laundering machine.

    Not quite sure if Brillo thinks this is a bad thing or a good thing.

    This sounds a very big number but it is not counter-intuitive.

    Say the properties bought averaged £2.5 million each then this would suggest around 33,000 properties were sold out of a total of 3.8 million private dwellings in the London Boroughs. If the average was £1.5 million we are talking around 55,300 properties.

    Many of the purchases would have been the two prime boroughs of RBKC and Westminister, but a substantial proportion will have been in Camden, Richmond, Kingston, Wandsworth, Hammersmith and Fulham.

    The big two have 65,000 and 92,000 private dwellingss respectively and the second tier average around 60,000 apiece.

    So the feeling on the ground will be that around one in ten properties in the prime boroughs were sold to foreigners last year with about one in twenty in the second tier boroughs. This level of demand is consistent with a 10% increase in property prices over the period.

    As for property being a suitable destination for "laundered money", this stretches credulity a little. The prime property market is not very liquid, ownership is registered by a range of authorities, legal action can relatively easily taken to frustrate sales and property wealth is highly visible.

    Money-laundering is often through cash businesses.

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited October 2013
    Brilliant Guardian piece by my old Magdalen College Oxford colleague, Stewart Wood (now Lord)

    http://goo.gl/niep3s

    This hits the nail on the head

    "None of us feel the economy in aggregate statistics. The Tories' chaotic response to Labour's proposal on energy prices has revealed a blindspot about a fundamental problem with our economy: that the connection between growth and family incomes has snapped, and needs to be restored.

    Cameron's problem is not just that he doesn't understand how much the cost of living crisis is biting with Britain's families; nor that he doesn't believe in government taking urgent action to do something about it. It is that he is wedded to a political strategy that relies on pointing people towards GDP graphs produced by the Treasury, and telling voters that their life experience shouldn't affect how they vote.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,519
    OGH National vote share normally determines national swing and the rough number of seats changing hands, Ashcroft's poll has shown quite clearly the LDs will lose seats, including some to the Tories
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited October 2013
    ITN have got video footage of yesterdays terrorist arrests...not sure that was quite textbook as the first guy nearly gets away, before being given the boot by another plod.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2458345/London-terror-suspect-arrest-caught-CCTV.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,519
    edited October 2013
    Mark Senior/Norm/Morris Dancer In 1979, pre-SDP the Liberals got 13%, now most centre-left leaning SDP voters have returned to Labour, only the true ideological old Liberal Party remains, so their vote share will probably return to what it typically got pre the formation of the SDP-Alliance.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    MikeSmithson said:

    Brilliant Guardian piece by my old Magdalen College Oxford colleague, Stewart Wood (now Lord)

    http://goo.gl/niep3s

    This hits the nail on the head

    "None of us feel the economy in aggregate statistics. The Tories' chaotic response to Labour's proposal on energy prices has revealed a blindspot about a fundamental problem with our economy: that the connection between growth and family incomes has snapped, and needs to be restored.

    Cameron's problem is not just that he doesn't understand how much the cost of living crisis is biting with Britain's families; nor that he doesn't believe in government taking urgent action to do something about it. It is that he is wedded to a political strategy that relies on pointing people towards GDP graphs produced by the Treasury, and telling voters that their life experience shouldn't affect how they vote.

    Labour peer pens a " cost of living crisis " piece of garbage.

  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Easterross said:

    Evening all, regarding our friends the Yellow Peril, we know an increasing number of the old timers have decided to hang up their parliamentary swords and return to their shooting lodges or expect elevation to the red benches. There is a great deal of speculation about those who can expect to be put to the sword by the ungrateful voters in hitherto urban Labour seats (possibly Simon Hughes excepted). As they have no fewer than 27 seats which would fall on a 5% swing, are there serious prospects of defection to either the Tory or Labour parties by any LibDem MPs (Jeremy Browne excluded since having heard about his potential jump, it is less likely to happen)?

    I still fancy my chances of winning my bet that the first defection of this parliament will be of a Labour or Conservative MP and not a Lib Dem MP .
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    MikeSmithson said:

    Brilliant Guardian piece by my old Magdalen College Oxford colleague, Stewart Wood (now Lord)

    http://goo.gl/niep3s

    This hits the nail on the head

    "None of us feel the economy in aggregate statistics. The Tories' chaotic response to Labour's proposal on energy prices has revealed a blindspot about a fundamental problem with our economy: that the connection between growth and family incomes has snapped, and needs to be restored.

    Cameron's problem is not just that he doesn't understand how much the cost of living crisis is biting with Britain's families; nor that he doesn't believe in government taking urgent action to do something about it. It is that he is wedded to a political strategy that relies on pointing people towards GDP graphs produced by the Treasury, and telling voters that their life experience shouldn't affect how they vote.

    Or maybe it takes 12 months plus for the beneficial effects to filter through.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,311
    MonikerDiCanio said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    GeoffM said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 1h
    New York Times: "An astonishing £83 billion worth of London properties were purchased in 2012 with no financing — all cash purchases."

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 59m
    Central London property has become both a global reserve currency and a massive money-laundering machine.

    Not quite sure if Brillo thinks this is a bad thing or a good thing.

    I think it's a good thing. What about you?

    I think the activities that necessitate money laundering are generally bad things. I also think there's something vaguely demeaning about a grown-up economy basing a chunk of itself on suchlike.
    London's global preeminence really gets the Nats' goat like nothing else.

    It's a constant source of joy.

    Pre-eminence as Ruritanian husk and playground for Eurotrash? Dream on Monica.

    Are you wearing your Kipper or SCon codpiece tonight? What surge are ye predicting for either in Dunfermline next week?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    MikeSmithson said:

    Brilliant Guardian piece by my old Magdalen College Oxford colleague, Stewart Wood (now Lord)

    http://goo.gl/niep3s

    This hits the nail on the head

    "None of us feel the economy in aggregate statistics. The Tories' chaotic response to Labour's proposal on energy prices has revealed a blindspot about a fundamental problem with our economy: that the connection between growth and family incomes has snapped, and needs to be restored.

    Cameron's problem is not just that he doesn't understand how much the cost of living crisis is biting with Britain's families; nor that he doesn't believe in government taking urgent action to do something about it. It is that he is wedded to a political strategy that relies on pointing people towards GDP graphs produced by the Treasury, and telling voters that their life experience shouldn't affect how they vote.

    The above is true but the same could be said of all mainstream party leaders and their minions. They all point to GDP or some such statistic while screwing the british people royaly.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098
    MikeSmithson said:

    Brilliant Guardian piece by my old Magdalen College Oxford colleague, Stewart Wood (now Lord)

    http://goo.gl/niep3s

    This hits the nail on the head

    "None of us feel the economy in aggregate statistics. The Tories' chaotic response to Labour's proposal on energy prices has revealed a blindspot about a fundamental problem with our economy: that the connection between growth and family incomes has snapped, and needs to be restored.

    Cameron's problem is not just that he doesn't understand how much the cost of living crisis is biting with Britain's families; nor that he doesn't believe in government taking urgent action to do something about it. It is that he is wedded to a political strategy that relies on pointing people towards GDP graphs produced by the Treasury, and telling voters that their life experience shouldn't affect how they vote.

    Half right.

    No one indeed intuits the economy via aggregate stats. It is all, as has been well-rehearsed on PB and pubs across the land and subsequently in parliamentary debate, about the cost of living.

    However...

    While knowing the the PSBR is up or down makes no difference to your choice of whether to watch X-Factor or Strictly, there are plenty of authoritative sources, newspapers, commentators on TV & Radio, articles in magazines, blogs for heavens sake, that seem to understand these things and then pronounce on them as to whether they are a Good Thing or a Bad Thing.

    So while it doesn't mean too much on an individual basis it's likely that the feeling will arise whereby it is seen as good if the economy is seen as doing well as defined by a range of commentators.

    That is what will stay the hand of many non-Tories on the night in May 2015 and steer their hand to the Blues.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    MarkSenior said:

    Easterross said:

    Evening all, regarding our friends the Yellow Peril, we know an increasing number of the old timers have decided to hang up their parliamentary swords and return to their shooting lodges or expect elevation to the red benches. There is a great deal of speculation about those who can expect to be put to the sword by the ungrateful voters in hitherto urban Labour seats (possibly Simon Hughes excepted). As they have no fewer than 27 seats which would fall on a 5% swing, are there serious prospects of defection to either the Tory or Labour parties by any LibDem MPs (Jeremy Browne excluded since having heard about his potential jump, it is less likely to happen)?

    I still fancy my chances of winning my bet that the first defection of this parliament will be of a Labour or Conservative MP and not a Lib Dem MP .
    A relatively safe bet given the numbers involved!
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    I believe Sharon Shoesmith produced charts showing how wonderfully Harringey Council was doing in relation to child protection.

    Not many believed her though.
    MikeSmithson said:

    Brilliant Guardian piece by my old Magdalen College Oxford colleague, Stewart Wood (now Lord)

    http://goo.gl/niep3s

    This hits the nail on the head

    "None of us feel the economy in aggregate statistics. The Tories' chaotic response to Labour's proposal on energy prices has revealed a blindspot about a fundamental problem with our economy: that the connection between growth and family incomes has snapped, and needs to be restored.

    Cameron's problem is not just that he doesn't understand how much the cost of living crisis is biting with Britain's families; nor that he doesn't believe in government taking urgent action to do something about it. It is that he is wedded to a political strategy that relies on pointing people towards GDP graphs produced by the Treasury, and telling voters that their life experience shouldn't affect how they vote.

  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    MarkSenior said:

    Easterross said:

    Evening all, regarding our friends the Yellow Peril, we know an increasing number of the old timers have decided to hang up their parliamentary swords and return to their shooting lodges or expect elevation to the red benches. There is a great deal of speculation about those who can expect to be put to the sword by the ungrateful voters in hitherto urban Labour seats (possibly Simon Hughes excepted). As they have no fewer than 27 seats which would fall on a 5% swing, are there serious prospects of defection to either the Tory or Labour parties by any LibDem MPs (Jeremy Browne excluded since having heard about his potential jump, it is less likely to happen)?

    I still fancy my chances of winning my bet that the first defection of this parliament will be of a Labour or Conservative MP and not a Lib Dem MP .
    I would love to see the face of "you-know-who" and his leftie pals on here if a decent, centrist Labour MP defects to the Tories.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    HYUFD said:

    Mark Senior/Norm/Morris Dancer In 1979, pre-SDP the Liberals got 13%, now most centre-left leaning SDP voters have returned to Labour, only the true ideological old Liberal Party remains, so their vote share will probably return to what it typically got pre the formation of the SDP-Alliance.

    They got 13.8% in 1979 and nearer 15% excluding NI and allowing for uncontested seats ,
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    School accountability reforms announced today. Have to say I've lost interest in all the backroom stuff. I'm taking time out next (school) year and may not go back. A few (at least) months travelling then other work lined up if I want it. Love teaching still, but little we do now has anything to do with it.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/reforming-the-accountability-system-for-secondary-schools

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/249893/Consultation_response_Secondary_School_Accountability_Consultation_14-Oct-13_v3.pdf
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited October 2013
    MikeSmithson said:

    Brilliant Guardian piece by my old Magdalen College Oxford colleague, Stewart Wood (now Lord)

    http://goo.gl/niep3s

    This hits the nail on the head

    "None of us feel the economy in aggregate statistics. The Tories' chaotic response to Labour's proposal on energy prices has revealed a blindspot about a fundamental problem with our economy: that the connection between growth and family incomes has snapped, and needs to be restored.

    Cameron's problem is not just that he doesn't understand how much the cost of living crisis is biting with Britain's families; nor that he doesn't believe in government taking urgent action to do something about it. It is that he is wedded to a political strategy that relies on pointing people towards GDP graphs produced by the Treasury, and telling voters that their life experience shouldn't affect how they vote.

    I don't know what Lord Wood was doing during the noughties but he may well have been chasing Bambi in the deer park, over-indulging in the college port or knocked senseless by the beauty of the choristers singing from the top of Magdalen bell-tower.

    Cameron has spent far more attention to the link between GDP and Real Households' Disposable Income than his predecessors Brown or Blair. This ONS graph demonstrates this fact without admitting any possiblity of dispute.

    image
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    They should have gone to Iceland to see how things should be done.
    SeanT said:

    old_labour said:

    IRELAND must raise corporation tax, Germany’s second biggest party has insisted as it prepared to enter serious coalition talks with Chancellor Angela Merkel.

    "I’m very sorry for Ireland, but the corporate tax rate is simply to low,’’ SPD general secretary Andrea Nahles told reporters in Berlin.

    I can't see Dave getting far in his proposed repatriation of powers from the EU.

    Aha. Ahahahah. AhahahahahHAHAHAHAHHA.

    The fightin' Irish. Bravely resisting the English for 200 years so they can have their heads shoved down the toilet by the Germans.

    You gotta laugh. So I did.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    MikeSmithson said:

    Brilliant Guardian piece by my old Magdalen College Oxford colleague, Stewart Wood (now Lord)

    http://goo.gl/niep3s

    This hits the nail on the head

    "None of us feel the economy in aggregate statistics. The Tories' chaotic response to Labour's proposal on energy prices has revealed a blindspot about a fundamental problem with our economy: that the connection between growth and family incomes has snapped, and needs to be restored.

    Cameron's problem is not just that he doesn't understand how much the cost of living crisis is biting with Britain's families; nor that he doesn't believe in government taking urgent action to do something about it. It is that he is wedded to a political strategy that relies on pointing people towards GDP graphs produced by the Treasury, and telling voters that their life experience shouldn't affect how they vote.

    One thing for sure is that arbitrarily capping the price of things does nothing for long term improvement in the standard of living. For decades the British people have lived beyond their means, encouraged by governments. It will take a decade or two to adjust to realistic levels.

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited October 2013
    @Carola
    If the kids can analyse and understand David Law's expenses, they should be given an A* for maths.

    Do you have to read that crap?
    Carola said:

    School accountability reforms announced today. Have to say I've lost interest in all the backroom stuff. I'm taking time out next (school) year and may not go back. A few (at least) months travelling then other work lined up if I want it. Love teaching still, but little we do now has anything to do with it.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/reforming-the-accountability-system-for-secondary-schools

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/249893/Consultation_response_Secondary_School_Accountability_Consultation_14-Oct-13_v3.pdf

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    @Easterross

    I've been meaning to thank you for your wonderful portrait of Alistair Carmichael last week. After seeing him being interviewed by Andrew Neil yesterday your description was spot on. He's amusing, engaging and tough all at the same time.

    Alex Salmond will find his work cut out dealing with him.

    I've just backed him for next LD leader.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,519
    Mark Senior - The point remains as the lowest they LDs have got since 1979 is the 16% they got in 1992, and anyway the difference between 13% and 13.8% is nothing and on NI and uncontested seats a minor difference in figures can be given as to whether you look at the UK or only the mainland but again the point remains, pre-SDP, post war, and with the exception of Thorpe's 1974 performance the LDs were between 5-15%, post SDP they were between 15-25%, they have now returned to their former figure!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098
    tim said:

    The observation in Woods piece that the Tories are only talking to their Tea Party core with their "Marxist" riffing is a point I've been making on here, it doesn't work when the public is way to the left of Miliband on all these issues.
    Bizarre Michele Bachmann type strategy.

    Supremely clumsy as they have been, the Tories have also presided over an economic recovery.

    No one paying attention to macro-economic factors aside, this will be the overriding narrative come GE2015 - Labour didn't fix the roof when the sun was shining and the Tories fixed a broken economy: don't let Labour ruin it again.

    Will it work? Who knows. Is it a powerful narrative? You bet.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,519
    SeanT/Tim Earlier thread - You support removing charitable status from public schools, of course that status allows them to provide scholarships and bursaries to those who cannot afford the fees, hence the end result would be to make them even more the producer of Osbornes and Camerons rather than those with talent but less privileged backgrounds!
This discussion has been closed.