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  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Roger said:

    Re the brain drain.

    It will be a little known fact that in advertising and allied services the UK punches well above its weight. Such is the reputation of the industry that it 's fair to say the sun never sets where British technicians and creatives aren't working. I myself have shot for for over 30 countries. Reputations count for a lot and hailing from the the first 'go to' country when a client is looking to shoot an ad is a huge advantage.

    I heard this week that a large Japanese agency who were about to buy a small UK hot shop have pulled out. The reason given were worries the UK might lose some of its pan European business.

    In 1982 when Colin Welland picked up the Oscar for 'Chariots of Fire' he famously (and presciently)) said "The British are Coming!". Well they came and thanks to the morons in Hartlepool it looks like they're now going.

    Those people in Hartlepool who actually live in this county must be crying themselves to sleep at problems for jet setting ad execs! This is almost as laughable as the People’s vote moaning about museum collections yesterday. If I had not seen you post here for years I would think you were a parody.
    It's the jet setting ad execs' taxes that are paying the Hartlepudlians' benefits though.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Pulpstar said:

    Roger said:

    Re the brain drain.

    It will be a little known fact that in advertising and allied services the UK punches well above its weight. Such is the reputation of the industry that it 's fair to say the sun never sets where British technicians and creatives aren't working. I myself have shot for for over 30 countries. Reputations count for a lot and hailing from the the first 'go to' country when a client is looking to shoot an ad is a huge advantage.

    I heard this week that a large Japanese agency who were about to buy a small UK hot shop have pulled out. The reason given were worries the UK might lose some of its pan European business.

    In 1982 when Colin Welland picked up the Oscar for 'Chariots of Fire' he famously (and presciently)) said "The British are Coming!". Well they came and thanks to the morons in Hartlepool it looks like they're now going.

    What is a "hot shop" ?
    Ad agencies are often called 'shops' and 'hot' is used to mean creative so generally small creative agencies as opposed to the more traditional large agencies.
  • Rexel56 said:

    BA219 LHR to Denver in tight holding pattern overhead here (N York’s Cumbria border) at 19,000ft...

    I took that flight back in December 2010 when I briefly worked in Boulder.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301

    Roger said:

    Re the brain drain.

    It will be a little known fact that in advertising and allied services the UK punches well above its weight. Such is the reputation of the industry that it 's fair to say the sun never sets where British technicians and creatives aren't working. I myself have shot for for over 30 countries. Reputations count for a lot and hailing from the the first 'go to' country when a client is looking to shoot an ad is a huge advantage.

    I heard this week that a large Japanese agency who were about to buy a small UK hot shop have pulled out. The reason given were worries the UK might lose some of its pan European business.

    In 1982 when Colin Welland picked up the Oscar for 'Chariots of Fire' he famously (and presciently)) said "The British are Coming!". Well they came and thanks to the morons in Hartlepool it looks like they're now going.

    Those people in Hartlepool who actually live in this county must be crying themselves to sleep at problems for jet setting ad execs! This is almost as laughable as the People’s vote moaning about museum collections yesterday. If I had not seen you post here for years I would think you were a parody...
    ... and you a fool.
    Service industry exports make rather a large contribution to the UK's economy.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/bulletins/internationaltradeinservices/2016
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:
    Don't expect any prosecutions, if any, for five years.

    Aaron Banks has never struck me as the sharpest tool in the box but I would be very surprised if his Isle of Man company did not lend the money to himself so that he could then lend it to others. Provided he has the paperwork to establish that chain I really don't think where he got the money to lend is likely to be here or there. That would only be the case if he was a man of straw or nominee making it a paper transaction and I find it hard to believe that anyone would seriously suggest that.
    Can't stand the man. He occupies a similar level of loathing reserved for Nigel Farge. That pairing probably cost the Leave campaign votes - for people not wanting to be on the same side as them.

    That said, there was a spectacular amount of guilty-until-proven-innocent by Sarah Montague on WatO. She seemed not to understand the basic concept that it was was for prosecutors to show that any money used by Banks for Leave was dodgy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,898
    edited November 2018
    rpjs said:

    Andrew said:

    RobD said:


    Medical emergency?

    They'd have landed rather than circling surely? I'd have thought some technical problem.

    Looks like they're heading back to London or possibly Manchester.
    A fully-laden and fueled 744 is too heavy to land safely so it has to dispose of some of its fuel to divert or return in one way or another.
    I went on a 777 back in 2010. Looks like they need more capacity.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    Just how tiny was that margin again?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:
    Don't expect any prosecutions, if any, for five years.

    Aaron Banks has never struck me as the sharpest tool in the box but I would be very surprised if his Isle of Man company did not lend the money to himself so that he could then lend it to others. Provided he has the paperwork to establish that chain I really don't think where he got the money to lend is likely to be here or there. That would only be the case if he was a man of straw or nominee making it a paper transaction and I find it hard to believe that anyone would seriously suggest that.
    Can't stand the man. He occupies a similar level of loathing reserved for Nigel Farge. That pairing probably cost the Leave campaign votes - for people not wanting to be on the same side as them.

    That said, there was a spectacular amount of guilty-until-proven-innocent by Sarah Montague on WatO. She seemed not to understand the basic concept that it was was for prosecutors to show that any money used by Banks for Leave was dodgy.
    I agree that without Banks and probably Farage Leave would have won more easily. They were not happy bed fellows for many, including myself.
  • rpjs said:

    Roger said:

    Re the brain drain.

    It will be a little known fact that in advertising and allied services the UK punches well above its weight. Such is the reputation of the industry that it 's fair to say the sun never sets where British technicians and creatives aren't working. I myself have shot for for over 30 countries. Reputations count for a lot and hailing from the the first 'go to' country when a client is looking to shoot an ad is a huge advantage.

    I heard this week that a large Japanese agency who were about to buy a small UK hot shop have pulled out. The reason given were worries the UK might lose some of its pan European business.

    In 1982 when Colin Welland picked up the Oscar for 'Chariots of Fire' he famously (and presciently)) said "The British are Coming!". Well they came and thanks to the morons in Hartlepool it looks like they're now going.

    Those people in Hartlepool who actually live in this county must be crying themselves to sleep at problems for jet setting ad execs! This is almost as laughable as the People’s vote moaning about museum collections yesterday. If I had not seen you post here for years I would think you were a parody.
    It's the jet setting ad execs' taxes that are paying the Hartlepudlians' benefits though.
    Is it? Or are they using tax efficient wheezes to get out if paying tax?
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:
    Don't expect any prosecutions, if any, for five years.

    Aaron Banks has never struck me as the sharpest tool in the box but I would be very surprised if his Isle of Man company did not lend the money to himself so that he could then lend it to others. Provided he has the paperwork to establish that chain I really don't think where he got the money to lend is likely to be here or there. That would only be the case if he was a man of straw or nominee making it a paper transaction and I find it hard to believe that anyone would seriously suggest that.
    Can't stand the man. He occupies a similar level of loathing reserved for Nigel Farge. That pairing probably cost the Leave campaign votes - for people not wanting to be on the same side as them.

    That said, there was a spectacular amount of guilty-until-proven-innocent by Sarah Montague on WatO. She seemed not to understand the basic concept that it was was for prosecutors to show that any money used by Banks for Leave was dodgy.
    I agree that without Banks and probably Farage Leave would have won more easily. They were not happy bed fellows for many, including myself.
    I completely disagree with this. Leave.EU brought an essential element of the Leave coalition on board that otherwise would not have bothered to vote.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2018
    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    Just how tiny was that margin again?
    Basically the inverse of Arron Bank's ego. That small.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    Just how tiny was that margin again?
    4,441,983 votes in it I hear.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Anorak said:

    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    Just how tiny was that margin again?
    Basically the inverse of Arron Bank's ego. That small.
    Is that even measurable? :o
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,749
    Nigelb said:

    Roger said:

    Re the brain drain.

    It will be a little known fact that in advertising and allied services the UK punches well above its weight. Such is the reputation of the industry that it 's fair to say the sun never sets where British technicians and creatives aren't working. I myself have shot for for over 30 countries. Reputations count for a lot and hailing from the the first 'go to' country when a client is looking to shoot an ad is a huge advantage.

    I heard this week that a large Japanese agency who were about to buy a small UK hot shop have pulled out. The reason given were worries the UK might lose some of its pan European business.

    In 1982 when Colin Welland picked up the Oscar for 'Chariots of Fire' he famously (and presciently)) said "The British are Coming!". Well they came and thanks to the morons in Hartlepool it looks like they're now going.

    Those people in Hartlepool who actually live in this county must be crying themselves to sleep at problems for jet setting ad execs! This is almost as laughable as the People’s vote moaning about museum collections yesterday. If I had not seen you post here for years I would think you were a parody...
    ... and you a fool.
    Service industry exports make rather a large contribution to the UK's economy.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/internationaltrade/bulletins/internationaltradeinservices/2016
    Yes, while not always loved in Hartlepool, Hartlepool's* income does rather depend on taxes paid by City Financiers and @roger's creative hipsters.

    *convenient shorthand for the places economically stagnating, and voting Leave.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    So a 1 in 1000 chance that the Referendum result will be overturned? I will take 500/1 if you are prepared to offer this?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    stjohn said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    So a 1 in 1000 chance that the Referendum result will be overturned? I will take 500/1 if you are prepared to offer this?
    Sorr . ? Y..re .. eaking .up .. *static*
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Anorak said:

    stjohn said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    So a 1 in 1000 chance that the Referendum result will be overturned? I will take 500/1 if you are prepared to offer this?
    Sorr . ? Y..re .. eaking .up .. *static*
    :-)
  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    BA219 now on descent to LHR... pretty dramatic earlier doing tight turns at 19,000ft in a cloudless sky over Forest of Bowland...
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,910
    edited November 2018
    If you want a poll to take home and introduce to your loved ones, here's one from Germany - absolutely extraordinary:

    INSA poll:

    CDU/CSU 25%
    Greens 20%
    AfD 16.5%
    SPD 14%
    Linke 11%
    FDP 9.5%

    Helpfully, Europe Elects have done a seat projection:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1057979785115246592

    Note the increase in the Bundestag to 815 to allow for more representation so you need 408 for a majority.

  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    rpjs said:

    Roger said:

    Re the brain drain.

    It will be a little known fact that in advertising and allied services the UK punches well above its weight. Such is the reputation of the industry that it 's fair to say the sun never sets where British technicians and creatives aren't working. I myself have shot for for over 30 countries. Reputations count for a lot and hailing from the the first 'go to' country when a client is looking to shoot an ad is a huge advantage.

    I heard this week that a large Japanese agency who were about to buy a small UK hot shop have pulled out. The reason given were worries the UK might lose some of its pan European business.

    In 1982 when Colin Welland picked up the Oscar for 'Chariots of Fire' he famously (and presciently)) said "The British are Coming!". Well they came and thanks to the morons in Hartlepool it looks like they're now going.

    Those people in Hartlepool who actually live in this county must be crying themselves to sleep at problems for jet setting ad execs! This is almost as laughable as the People’s vote moaning about museum collections yesterday. If I had not seen you post here for years I would think you were a parody.
    It's the jet setting ad execs' taxes that are paying the Hartlepudlians' benefits though.
    Is it? Or are they using tax efficient wheezes to get out if paying tax?
    Yeah, you're probably right, but the PBI that work for them do pay tax. I know I did when I worked for an online agency and in adtech.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    stodge said:

    If you want a poll to take home and introduce to your loved ones, here's one from Germany - absolutely extraordinary:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Helpfully, Europe Elects have done a seat projection:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1057979785115246592

    Note the increase in the Bundestag to 815 to allow for more representation so you need 408 for a majority.

    It has a hundred more seats because of the vote distribution, or did they increase the number of constituencies?
  • stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    ... there may be those looking out at High Streets with a dozen or more betting shops who might argue three or four less would be no bad thing.

    Afternoon.

    Some of the stories that you hear about gambling addiction are horrendous and I feel that the expansion of gambling created by New Labour was one of their more damming errors in government.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:
    Don't expect any prosecutions, if any, for five years.

    Aaron Banks has never struck me as the sharpest tool in the box but I would be very surprised if his Isle of Man company did not lend the money to himself so that he could then lend it to others. Provided he has the paperwork to establish that chain I really don't think where he got the money to lend is likely to be here or there. That would only be the case if he was a man of straw or nominee making it a paper transaction and I find it hard to believe that anyone would seriously suggest that.
    Can't stand the man. He occupies a similar level of loathing reserved for Nigel Farge. That pairing probably cost the Leave campaign votes - for people not wanting to be on the same side as them.

    That said, there was a spectacular amount of guilty-until-proven-innocent by Sarah Montague on WatO. She seemed not to understand the basic concept that it was was for prosecutors to show that any money used by Banks for Leave was dodgy.
    I agree that without Banks and probably Farage Leave would have won more easily. They were not happy bed fellows for many, including myself.
    I completely disagree with this. Leave.EU brought an essential element of the Leave coalition on board that otherwise would not have bothered to vote.
    They will have brought on some but at the cost of others, notably Cameroons.
  • rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    Roger said:

    Re the brain drain.

    It will be a little known fact that in advertising and allied services the UK punches well above its weight. Such is the reputation of the industry that it 's fair to say the sun never sets where British technicians and creatives aren't working. I myself have shot for for over 30 countries. Reputations count for a lot and hailing from the the first 'go to' country when a client is looking to shoot an ad is a huge advantage.

    I heard this week that a large Japanese agency who were about to buy a small UK hot shop have pulled out. The reason given were worries the UK might lose some of its pan European business.

    In 1982 when Colin Welland picked up the Oscar for 'Chariots of Fire' he famously (and presciently)) said "The British are Coming!". Well they came and thanks to the morons in Hartlepool it looks like they're now going.

    Those people in Hartlepool who actually live in this county must be crying themselves to sleep at problems for jet setting ad execs! This is almost as laughable as the People’s vote moaning about museum collections yesterday. If I had not seen you post here for years I would think you were a parody.
    It's the jet setting ad execs' taxes that are paying the Hartlepudlians' benefits though.
    Is it? Or are they using tax efficient wheezes to get out if paying tax?
    Yeah, you're probably right, but the PBI that work for them do pay tax. I know I did when I worked for an online agency and in adtech.
    Probably. But someone who thinks that their jetsetting trumps the "little people" in 'Hartlepool' probably regards tax as for the "little people" too.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    stodge said:

    If you want a poll to take home and introduce to your loved ones, here's one from Germany - absolutely extraordinary:

    INSA poll:

    CDU/CSU 25%
    Greens 20%
    AfD 16.5%
    SPD 14%
    Linke 11%
    FDP 9.5%

    Helpfully, Europe Elects have done a seat projection:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1057979785115246592

    Note the increase in the Bundestag to 815 to allow for more representation so you need 408 for a majority.

    CDU-Grune-FDP looks the only viable Gov't on those numbers.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    stodge said:

    If you want a poll to take home and introduce to your loved ones, here's one from Germany - absolutely extraordinary:

    INSA poll:

    CDU/CSU 25%
    Greens 20%
    AfD 16.5%
    SPD 14%
    Linke 11%
    FDP 9.5%

    Helpfully, Europe Elects have done a seat projection:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1057979785115246592

    Note the increase in the Bundestag to 815 to allow for more representation so you need 408 for a majority.

    815? Is the undisputed title of the most lunatic legislature in Europe held by the HoL finally coming under threat? Time to appoint more nutters. Its not like we are short of them.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    Roger said:

    Re the brain drain.

    It will be a little known fact that in advertising and allied services the UK punches well above its weight. Such is the reputation of the industry that it 's fair to say the sun never sets where British technicians and creatives aren't working. I myself have shot for for over 30 countries. Reputations count for a lot and hailing from the the first 'go to' country when a client is looking to shoot an ad is a huge advantage.

    I heard this week that a large Japanese agency who were about to buy a small UK hot shop have pulled out. The reason given were worries the UK might lose some of its pan European business.

    In 1982 when Colin Welland picked up the Oscar for 'Chariots of Fire' he famously (and presciently)) said "The British are Coming!". Well they came and thanks to the morons in Hartlepool it looks like they're now going.

    Those people in Hartlepool who actually live in this county must be crying themselves to sleep at problems for jet setting ad execs! This is almost as laughable as the People’s vote moaning about museum collections yesterday. If I had not seen you post here for years I would think you were a parody.
    It's the jet setting ad execs' taxes that are paying the Hartlepudlians' benefits though.
    Is it? Or are they using tax efficient wheezes to get out if paying tax?
    Yeah, you're probably right, but the PBI that work for them do pay tax. I know I did when I worked for an online agency and in adtech.
    Probably. But someone who thinks that their jetsetting trumps the "little people" in 'Hartlepool' probably regards tax as for the "little people" too.
    The point remains that industries like these that are going to be clobbered by Brexit pay for a big chunk of Leave-voting communities' income.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited November 2018
    DavidL said:

    stodge said:

    If you want a poll to take home and introduce to your loved ones, here's one from Germany - absolutely extraordinary:

    INSA poll:

    CDU/CSU 25%
    Greens 20%
    AfD 16.5%
    SPD 14%
    Linke 11%
    FDP 9.5%

    Helpfully, Europe Elects have done a seat projection:

    twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1057979785115246592

    Note the increase in the Bundestag to 815 to allow for more representation so you need 408 for a majority.

    815? Is the undisputed title of the most lunatic legislature in Europe held by the HoL finally coming under threat? Time to appoint more nutters. Its not like we are short of them.


    The hereditaries are waiting in the wings.... :D
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,910
    RobD said:


    It has a hundred more seats because of the vote distribution, or did they increase the number of constituencies?

    You have six party groupings all comfortably clearing the 5% threshold and all within (roughly) the range of 10-25% so it's perfectly piossible under the German system to have more seats awarded on the "top up". The Hessen Landtag went from 109 to 137 for the same reason after last Sunday's result.

    Incredibly, the Greens finished second outpolling the SPD by just 94 votes. The CDU/Green Coalition won 69 (CDU 40, Green 29) so can in theory continue with a 1-seat majority.

    I've not heard if that is what will happen or whether any other coalition options are being explored in Hesse.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    stodge said:

    RobD said:


    It has a hundred more seats because of the vote distribution, or did they increase the number of constituencies?

    You have six party groupings all comfortably clearing the 5% threshold and all within (roughly) the range of 10-25% so it's perfectly piossible under the German system to have more seats awarded on the "top up". The Hessen Landtag went from 109 to 137 for the same reason after last Sunday's result.

    Incredibly, the Greens finished second outpolling the SPD by just 94 votes. The CDU/Green Coalition won 69 (CDU 40, Green 29) so can in theory continue with a 1-seat majority.

    I've not heard if that is what will happen or whether any other coalition options are being explored in Hesse.
    PR.... madness!
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    BA219 landed and taxiing to stand.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Scott_P said:
    How does May climb down ? I know the budget being amended isn't quite a confidence motion, but it's damned close.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,910
    Scott_P said:
    The FOBT reduction is possibly the only issue that could bring all the non-Conservative parties including the DUP into the same lobby (and quite a few Conservatives too it would seem).
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Surprise! The UK will need to trade access to fishing waters to get a Brexit deal.

    https://twitter.com/DanielBoffey/status/1057984485499781121
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    How does May climb down ? I know the budget being amended isn't quite a confidence motion, but it's damned close.
    Not really, it happens quite often. A famous example was Ken Clarke being forced to backtrack on increasing VAT on domestic fuel. There were also U-turns on the National Insurance change last year, and by Osborne on the stupid opposition to the 'pasty tax'.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    How does May climb down ? I know the budget being amended isn't quite a confidence motion, but it's damned close.
    Not really, it happens quite often. A famous example was Ken Clarke being forced to backtrack on increasing VAT on domestic fuel.
    OK ! Sorry thought it was more serious than that.
  • RobD said:

    stodge said:

    If you want a poll to take home and introduce to your loved ones, here's one from Germany - absolutely extraordinary:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Helpfully, Europe Elects have done a seat projection:

    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1057979785115246592

    Note the increase in the Bundestag to 815 to allow for more representation so you need 408 for a majority.

    It has a hundred more seats because of the vote distribution, or did they increase the number of constituencies?
    The vote distribution. It looks like the more split the vote - and so the less proportional FPTP becomes, the more seats have to be added to even it out.

    I wonder how high it could go?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    How does May climb down ? I know the budget being amended isn't quite a confidence motion, but it's damned close.
    Did the budget set the date, or was it to come into effect when an order was made? In any case, the extra delay is stupid.
  • Scott_P said:
    May will surely climb down.

    The only question then is who she disappoints by doing so and how much that costs her.

    Are there any Tory MPs with notable links to the betting industry?
  • Scott_P said:
    It's not just Tracy Crouch who feels strongly on this, so that's a silly way of Paul Brand to describe it. It the government backs down (which I think is likely) it will be because they were going to lose an amendment on it.

    As for the lost tax, it's peanuts in the overall scheme of things. The bigger issue is how quickly the bookies can amend the software, but they've had plenty of warning.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Scott_P said:
    I doubt many are going to be worried about that lost revenue, given the source.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    How does May climb down ? I know the budget being amended isn't quite a confidence motion, but it's damned close.
    Not really, it happens quite often. A famous example was Ken Clarke being forced to backtrack on increasing VAT on domestic fuel. There were also U-turns on the National Insurance change last year, and by Osborne on the stupid opposition to the 'pasty tax'.
    Isn't a backdown on something in the budget become a bit of a perennial event now?

    Last year was the proposed NI changes for the self-employed.
    Who can forget pasty tax?

    A six month delay on a change being cancelled will if swiftly retreated on be soon forgotten amongst those. The longer a retreat is postponed, especially if a resignation happens first, the more damage it will do.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,044
    Pulpstar said:

    Roger said:

    Re the brain drain.

    It will be a little known fact that in advertising and allied services the UK punches well above its weight. Such is the reputation of the industry that it 's fair to say the sun never sets where British technicians and creatives aren't working. I myself have shot for for over 30 countries. Reputations count for a lot and hailing from the the first 'go to' country when a client is looking to shoot an ad is a huge advantage.

    I heard this week that a large Japanese agency who were about to buy a small UK hot shop have pulled out. The reason given were worries the UK might lose some of its pan European business.

    In 1982 when Colin Welland picked up the Oscar for 'Chariots of Fire' he famously (and presciently)) said "The British are Coming!". Well they came and thanks to the morons in Hartlepool it looks like they're now going.

    What is a "hot shop" ?
    Greggs
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Topping

    Exactly right. Pointlessly divisive for no good financial reason.
  • Is it just me or is a 15% tax on online gambling quite low? Why should online gambling be less-taxed than VAT? Or even Machine Game Duty or other comparable taxes?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    How does May climb down ? I know the budget being amended isn't quite a confidence motion, but it's damned close.
    Not really, it happens quite often. A famous example was Ken Clarke being forced to backtrack on increasing VAT on domestic fuel. There were also U-turns on the National Insurance change last year, and by Osborne on the stupid opposition to the 'pasty tax'.
    Isn't a backdown on something in the budget become a bit of a perennial event now?

    Last year was the proposed NI changes for the self-employed.
    Who can forget pasty tax?

    A six month delay on a change being cancelled will if swiftly retreated on be soon forgotten amongst those. The longer a retreat is postponed, especially if a resignation happens first, the more damage it will do.
    Yes, it can be framed as the government listening to parliament. In this particular case especially, I don't see it being damaging. It's not as though the bookies have many friends. It would probably be more damaging to persist with it.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    Arron Banks's spectacular whataboutery involving George Soros shows (a) that he is a deeply odious berk and (b) that he is concerned this is going somewhere so he is laying an irrelevant and false trail.

    @alastairmeeks. Before I forget, your article yesterday was really good. I didn’t do as well as you on the quiz!

    Never say never but I would be surprised if had done anything wrong. The answer is a the guy is deeply odious - he lives very near me and has a large number of charity gromit (Wallace and gromit) statues outside the front of his house. It is a narrow country road so you can’t stop to look at them or anything - I can’t stand those who parade their charitable giving.
  • Arron Banks's spectacular whataboutery involving George Soros shows (a) that he is a deeply odious berk and (b) that he is concerned this is going somewhere so he is laying an irrelevant and false trail.

    @alastairmeeks. Before I forget, your article yesterday was really good. I didn’t do as well as you on the quiz!

    Never say never but I would be surprised if had done anything wrong. The answer is a the guy is deeply odious - he lives very near me and has a large number of charity gromit (Wallace and gromit) statues outside the front of his house. It is a narrow country road so you can’t stop to look at them or anything - I can’t stand those who parade their charitable giving.
    That's very kind of you to say so - I always enjoy writing the articles most when I learn a lot myself. I did when putting that one together.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited November 2018
    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    The problem is that opinion has barely shifted since June 2016 and Remain can't be at all confident they wouldn't be defeated again.

    A better route for them is to play it long with Theresa/Robbins vasselhood and campaign to rejoin in 5-10 years.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Scott_P said:
    I did tell everyone to buy at anything better than 30-1 (Nandy leadership)
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2018
    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    The problem is that opinion has barely shifted since June 2016 and Remain can't be at all confident they wouldn't be defeated again.

    A better route for them is to play it long with Theresa's vasselhood and campaign to rejoin in 5-10 years.
    Yes, a campaign targeting 2016 Leave voters by effectively saying to them "You were bought with dodgy money, you must vote differently this time" would be... how shall I put this?... not entirely guaranteed to succeed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    The problem is that opinion has barely shifted since June 2016 and Remain can't be at all confident they wouldn't be defeated again.

    A better route for them is to play it long with Theresa/Robbins vasselhood and campaign to rejoin in 5-10 years.
    Agree.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    Roger said:

    Re the brain drain.

    It will be a little known fact that in advertising and allied services the UK punches well above its weight. Such is the reputation of the industry that it 's fair to say the sun never sets where British technicians and creatives aren't working. I myself have shot for for over 30 countries. Reputations count for a lot and hailing from the the first 'go to' country when a client is looking to shoot an ad is a huge advantage.

    I heard this week that a large Japanese agency who were about to buy a small UK hot shop have pulled out. The reason given were worries the UK might lose some of its pan European business.

    In 1982 when Colin Welland picked up the Oscar for 'Chariots of Fire' he famously (and presciently)) said "The British are Coming!". Well they came and thanks to the morons in Hartlepool it looks like they're now going.

    Those people in Hartlepool who actually live in this county must be crying themselves to sleep at problems for jet setting ad execs! This is almost as laughable as the People’s vote moaning about museum collections yesterday. If I had not seen you post here for years I would think you were a parody.
    It's the jet setting ad execs' taxes that are paying the Hartlepudlians' benefits though.
    Is it? Or are they using tax efficient wheezes to get out if paying tax?
    Yeah, you're probably right, but the PBI that work for them do pay tax. I know I did when I worked for an online agency and in adtech.
    Probably. But someone who thinks that their jetsetting trumps the "little people" in 'Hartlepool' probably regards tax as for the "little people" too.
    The point remains that industries like these that are going to be clobbered by Brexit pay for a big chunk of Leave-voting communities' income.
    That’s complete nonsense. If Labour got voted in by promising more money on benefits, and investment in their heartlands it wouldn’t delegitimise that result because the beneficiaries of their policies weren’t directly paying for it.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    edited November 2018

    Arron Banks's spectacular whataboutery involving George Soros shows (a) that he is a deeply odious berk and (b) that he is concerned this is going somewhere so he is laying an irrelevant and false trail.

    @alastairmeeks. Before I forget, your article yesterday was really good. I didn’t do as well as you on the quiz!

    Never say never but I would be surprised if had done anything wrong. The answer is a the guy is deeply odious - he lives very near me and has a large number of charity gromit (Wallace and gromit) statues outside the front of his house. It is a narrow country road so you can’t stop to look at them or anything - I can’t stand those who parade their charitable giving.
    That's very kind of you to say so - I always enjoy writing the articles most when I learn a lot myself. I did when putting that one together.
    It suffered the fate of many a good article on here - someone said something about Brexit and it got bumped down!!!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited November 2018

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    The problem is that opinion has barely shifted since June 2016 and Remain can't be at all confident they wouldn't be defeated again.

    A better route for them is to play it long with Theresa's vasselhood and campaign to rejoin in 5-10 years.
    Yes, a campaign targeting 2016 Leave voters by effectively saying to them "You were bought with dodgy money, you must vote differently this time" would be... how shall I put this?... not entirely guaranteed to succeed.
    Of course Leave will start campaigning for real Brexit at the same time... So I guess at some point in the 2020's there will be another referendum that will either be Rejoin or WTO Brexit - I don't think anyone can predict which way that goes.

    Theresa's deal certainly doesn't look sustainable beyond a few years.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    edited November 2018
    It takes real f****** genius to take cutting the maximum bet on FOTBs to £2 and turn it into a bad news story. Very few other than the politically inept May and her even more other worldly Chancellor could have managed it.

    For £100m? I mean, what planet are these people on?
  • Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. L, what's happened?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Just backed Avenatti at 65.0 for POTUS lol
  • Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    I did tell everyone to buy at anything better than 30-1 (Nandy leadership)
    I'm on at a range of around to 25 - 27, so not too bad.

    Always impresses me when she appears on TV.

    But maybe too young and inexperienced at this stage? Depends when Jezza falls I suppose.
  • DavidL said:

    It takes real f****** genius to take cutting the maximum bet on FOTBs to £2 and turn it into a bad news story. Very few other than the politically inept May and her even more other worldly Chancellor could have managed it.

    For £100m? I mean, what planet are these people on?

    The planet where someone lobbied them about lost jobs probably. Which is crazy, since the jobs would go, if they do really go, in October now rather than April.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,206
    edited November 2018
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    The problem is that opinion has barely shifted since June 2016 and Remain can't be at all confident they wouldn't be defeated again.

    A better route for them is to play it long with Theresa's vasselhood and campaign to rejoin in 5-10 years.
    Yes, a campaign targeting 2016 Leave voters by effectively saying to them "You were bought with dodgy money, you must vote differently this time" would be... how shall I put this?... not entirely guaranteed to succeed.
    Of course Leave will start campaigning for real Brexit at the same time... So I guess at some point in the 2020's there will be another referendum that will either be Rejoin or WTO Brexit - I don't think anyone can predict which way that goes.

    Theresa's deal certainly doesn't look sustainable beyond a few years.
    Unless Mogg becomes PM if May gets a Deal WTO terms Brexit is unlikely to be an option in any future EUref2.

    If a FTA agreed eventually there is unlikely to be any EUref2 anyway at most the question may concern rejoining the single market
  • GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    The problem is that opinion has barely shifted since June 2016 and Remain can't be at all confident they wouldn't be defeated again.

    A better route for them is to play it long with Theresa/Robbins vasselhood and campaign to rejoin in 5-10 years.
    The only way there is going to be a 2nd vote is through some kind of political deadlock and constitutional crisis.

    Oh wait...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,751
    TOPPING said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    The problem is that opinion has barely shifted since June 2016 and Remain can't be at all confident they wouldn't be defeated again.

    A better route for them is to play it long with Theresa/Robbins vasselhood and campaign to rejoin in 5-10 years.
    Agree.
    It’s a moot point until we see the political and public reaction to the exit deal itself.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,910


    The planet where someone lobbied them about lost jobs probably. Which is crazy, since the jobs would go, if they do really go, in October now rather than April.

    This is "Project Fear" from the bookmakers. In East Ham, we've lost a Hills and a Paddy Power - one is now a Savers and the other is a coffee shop. I suspect both employ more than the bookies ever did.

    It's up to the bookies whether they keep shops going which aren't economically viable but don't assume there will suddenly be economic disaster if a few betting shops go.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,044
    I've just read this:

    "Piers Morgan, one of England’s greatest proponent of civil rights, democracy, rule of law and freedom of speech, ..."

    https://canadafreepress.com/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    edited November 2018

    I've just read this:

    "Piers Morgan, one of England’s greatest proponent of civil rights, democracy, rule of law and freedom of speech, ..."

    https://canadafreepress.com/

    I've always thought of him in the same breath as Churchill, Shakespeare, Newton and Nelson.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,301

    DavidL said:

    It takes real f****** genius to take cutting the maximum bet on FOTBs to £2 and turn it into a bad news story. Very few other than the politically inept May and her even more other worldly Chancellor could have managed it.

    For £100m? I mean, what planet are these people on?

    The planet where someone lobbied them about lost jobs probably. Which is crazy, since the jobs would go, if they do really go, in October now rather than April.
    I wonder whether they were planning to scrap the reform altogether? If so, they have miscalculated...
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited November 2018
    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    The problem is that opinion has barely shifted since June 2016 and Remain can't be at all confident they wouldn't be defeated again.

    A better route for them is to play it long with Theresa/Robbins vasselhood and campaign to rejoin in 5-10 years.
    Problem with that is even if they won the actual re-accession process could easily take another 5-10 years after that. And if the UK had left and locked it into an arrangement without much downside to the EU, it's not obvious everyone in the EU with a veto would want to let the UK back in.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Did Corbyn pick up on this in his spontaneous budget response ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301

    I've just read this:

    "Piers Morgan, one of England’s greatest proponent of civil rights, democracy, rule of law and freedom of speech, ..."

    https://canadafreepress.com/

    Well, he does have one thing in common with Paine...
  • Pulpstar said:

    Did Corbyn pick up on this in his spontaneous budget response ?

    lol
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    edited November 2018

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. L, what's happened?

    The budget sought to delay the already announced restriction for another year. Crouch threatened to resign over it. May is now apparently climbing down because she would lose the vote. So we have gone from bravely facing down the gambling industry to being pathetic to being even more pathetic when called on it. As I said, genius!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892
    Nigelb said:

    I've just read this:

    "Piers Morgan, one of England’s greatest proponent of civil rights, democracy, rule of law and freedom of speech, ..."

    https://canadafreepress.com/

    Well, he does have one thing in common with Paine...

    No, no. That’s “pain” , as in pain in the...
  • Mr. L, May has a talent for making even victories seem like defeats.

    Like some sort of anti-Leonidas.
  • DavidL said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. L, what's happened?

    The budget sought to delay the already announced restriction for another year. Crouch threatened to resign over it. May is now apparently climbing down because she would lose the vote. So we have gone from bravely facing down the gambling industry to being pathetic to being even more pathetic when called it. As I said, genius!
    In an otherwise good budget how could the treasury not see how bad delaying this measure to help bookies would look.

    Not in touch seems to ring a bell
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,892

    DavidL said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. L, what's happened?

    The budget sought to delay the already announced restriction for another year. Crouch threatened to resign over it. May is now apparently climbing down because she would lose the vote. So we have gone from bravely facing down the gambling industry to being pathetic to being even more pathetic when called it. As I said, genius!
    In an otherwise good budget how could the treasury not see how bad delaying this measure to help bookies would look.

    Not in touch seems to ring a bell
    Not sure it’s a good budget. It seems to have abandoned the need to eliminate the deficit, if sees us adding to our humongous debt mountain, it basically assumes that we will have a stable period of growth for another 5 years when we have already had 8 in this cycle, it seriously risks us going into the next downturn still in deficit and it contained far too many gimmicks.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    The problem is that opinion has barely shifted since June 2016 and Remain can't be at all confident they wouldn't be defeated again.

    A better route for them is to play it long with Theresa/Robbins vasselhood and campaign to rejoin in 5-10 years.
    Agree.
    It’s a moot point until we see the political and public reaction to the exit deal itself.
    It will be spun by both sides such that everyone will be back where they started understanding-wise and hence the outcome of any vote would once more be uncertain.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    DavidL said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. L, what's happened?

    The budget sought to delay the already announced restriction for another year. Crouch threatened to resign over it. May is now apparently climbing down because she would lose the vote. So we have gone from bravely facing down the gambling industry to being pathetic to being even more pathetic when called it. As I said, genius!
    In an otherwise good budget how could the treasury not see how bad delaying this measure to help bookies would look.

    Not in touch seems to ring a bell
    This is one of the Tories Achilles heels. Policies on things that they haven’t got a clue about. These things cause misery in already deprived communities. Any delay is unacceptable. It like the pasty tax and caravan tax. No Tory goes to Greggs or on caravan holidays - they don’t have a clue how these things come across in communities who do.
  • Me_Me_ Posts: 66
    Isn't Brazilian politics the biggest real House of Cards ever? Bolsonaro just invited the Judge, Moro, that arrested Lula (who would be candidate if not for his now very suspicious condemnation) to be his Justice Minister. He accepted.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    The problem is that opinion has barely shifted since June 2016 and Remain can't be at all confident they wouldn't be defeated again.

    A better route for them is to play it long with Theresa/Robbins vasselhood and campaign to rejoin in 5-10 years.
    Problem with that is even if they won the actual re-accession process could easily take another 5-10 years after that. And if the UK had left and locked it into an arrangement without much downside to the EU, it's not obvious everyone in the EU with a veto would want to let the UK back in.
    No. Europe is not a menu of options from which a country is free to choose any combination. It's amazing how British politicians fail to understand this - May talks of her deal, some Tories want the "Norway option" or the "Canada option" and then we have the Starmer option a "jobs first Brexit". All of these mythical "options" are advanced in the U.K. as serious choices but in practice none are available as they all rely on the agreement of other countries and these countries are not prepared to offer such an agreement. The only "options" available to the U.K. are accepting the EU's terms or a cliff edge departure. And if we leave and then try to rejoin it will be on the EUs terms.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Absolute lunatics, he'll need all his skill to play this googly.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited November 2018
    Nigelb said:
    I saw Dylan first at Birmingham in Spring 1965 when it was still just him and his guitar. Later that year i saw him again when he came on with The Band in the second half. We did not boo because we were in shock.

    Subsequently I thought he was at his peak when I saw him in 1978 at Blackbushe.

    Although I have seen him seven times I no longer go to his concerts because his voice has gone - especially later in the tours. Instead I listen to the many tapes of his old concerts which are still emerging.

    There must be well over 100 fantastic original songs written by Dylan and he is still writing more. He should find other singers to join his Never Ending Tour and help sing his songs for him. Who will tell him?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Scott_P said:
    Schrodinger's Resignation. The wave does not collapse until TMay says so.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    GIN1138 said:

    Anorak said:

    A great deal of wishful thinking on Twitter. While I'd like them to be right, I'm 99.99% sure they have a snowball's chance in hell of overturning the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/NikGammon/status/1057995632525430784

    The problem is that opinion has barely shifted since June 2016 and Remain can't be at all confident they wouldn't be defeated again.

    A better route for them is to play it long with Theresa/Robbins vasselhood and campaign to rejoin in 5-10 years.
    Problem with that is even if they won the actual re-accession process could easily take another 5-10 years after that. And if the UK had left and locked it into an arrangement without much downside to the EU, it's not obvious everyone in the EU with a veto would want to let the UK back in.
    No. Europe is not a menu of options from which a country is free to choose any combination. It's amazing how British politicians fail to understand this - May talks of her deal, some Tories want the "Norway option" or the "Canada option" and then we have the Starmer option a "jobs first Brexit". All of these mythical "options" are advanced in the U.K. as serious choices but in practice none are available as they all rely on the agreement of other countries and these countries are not prepared to offer such an agreement. The only "options" available to the U.K. are accepting the EU's terms or a cliff edge departure. And if we leave and then try to rejoin it will be on the EUs terms.
    You are suggesting the UK shouldn't have bothered sending negotiators, and just accepted whatever as proposed?
  • Mr. Pulpstar, even if he plays it perfectly, it only takes one lunatic, and Pakistan's got thousands of them.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    I did tell everyone to buy at anything better than 30-1 (Nandy leadership)
    I really like Nandy. She comes across as switched on, caring and passionate. All good things for a labour leader.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    At first, Jeremy had the benefit of novelty. A politician who meant what he said. Now, the sparkle has gone, he's just the same as other politicians but without the brains.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220

    Mr. Pulpstar, even if he plays it perfectly, it only takes one lunatic, and Pakistan's got thousands of them.

    Hopefully Khan will hit the mad mullahs for six.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,712
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. L, what's happened?

    The budget sought to delay the already announced restriction for another year. Crouch threatened to resign over it. May is now apparently climbing down because she would lose the vote. So we have gone from bravely facing down the gambling industry to being pathetic to being even more pathetic when called it. As I said, genius!
    In an otherwise good budget how could the treasury not see how bad delaying this measure to help bookies would look.

    Not in touch seems to ring a bell
    Not sure it’s a good budget. It seems to have abandoned the need to eliminate the deficit, if sees us adding to our humongous debt mountain, it basically assumes that we will have a stable period of growth for another 5 years when we have already had 8 in this cycle, it seriously risks us going into the next downturn still in deficit and it contained far too many gimmicks.
    Not sure that's fair - debt as % of GDP falls pretty significantly over the next few years.

    And a deficit of just 1% of GDP is very low by historical standards.

    Given the huge and unavoidable demands on the NHS given the ageing population I think the above is more than a reasonable result.
This discussion has been closed.