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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How the readership of the main national papers are split on Br

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  • stodge said:

    Chillax, guys. The two sides are inching towards a deal, which will be broadly based on Chequers but not identical. That's how negotiations work.

    Edit: There remains a small risk of an accidental no-deal, but it's less than it was three or four months ago.

    You do realise only you and David Cameron still say "chillax" - the rest of us have almost reached the 2020s.

    I hate it when TSE and others say "Yup" instead of "Yep" :)
    I hate it when people type "Yep" instead of "Yes"!
    Yup, I'm wiv ya on that one
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    Anorak said:

    Chillax, guys. The two sides are inching towards a deal, which will be broadly based on Chequers but not identical. That's how negotiations work.

    What, you mean we can't all run around hysterically at every nuanced pronouncement? That's just not how these things work, you know.
    If in doubt, run about, scream and shout. Why people pay any attention to public pronouncements (other than the universally wise words on PB, ofc) baffles me.

    My current Bremorse level: nil.
    EU sentiment: Fuck 'em and all who sail with them.

    PB Brexit Loon Condition: 2... :D

    (Although I do share the same sentiments)
    Does PBBLC:1 entail nuking Brussels until the frites glow in the dark?
    We can hide it in that giant egg thing they just built. They’d never suspect a thing!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:

    May cracking up in the presser.

    As in "can't contain her laughter", or as in "incoming breakdown"?
    Latter ..


    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1042776321963769856
  • TGOHF said:

    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:

    May cracking up in the presser.

    As in "can't contain her laughter", or as in "incoming breakdown"?
    Latter ..


    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1042776321963769856
    Angry before she started, or in response to the questions?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2018

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    Anorak said:

    Chillax, guys. The two sides are inching towards a deal, which will be broadly based on Chequers but not identical. That's how negotiations work.

    What, you mean we can't all run around hysterically at every nuanced pronouncement? That's just not how these things work, you know.
    If in doubt, run about, scream and shout. Why people pay any attention to public pronouncements (other than the universally wise words on PB, ofc) baffles me.

    My current Bremorse level: nil.
    EU sentiment: Fuck 'em and all who sail with them.
    Well seeing as about 44% of our exports go to "them" then I guess that means a large number of our exporters and their UK employees that rely on them. But hey, as Boris says "Fuck business", fuck everyone that doesn't strut around showing off their narcissistic nationalistic credentials while they hide their miniscule appendages behind their faux patriotism
    And how many of their exports go to “us”?
    Quite a lot. But that won't replace the jobs that will be lost by the headbanger's solution. These little people's jobs are expendable in the eyes of the Brexit purist (and those like Boris and Rees-Mogg who have other forms of income) and their sacrifice will be worth it for the post Brexit Utopia in about 2068 or thereabouts.
    Maybe we sacrifice Wales and the South West, put up a fence and call it Brexitopia. Put a load of one-way turnstiles in the fence and let them get on with it.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Mrs May backed Sir Humphrey in the big chase at Salzburg.

    Seems like it was the wrong horse.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    stodge said:

    Chillax, guys. The two sides are inching towards a deal, which will be broadly based on Chequers but not identical. That's how negotiations work.

    Edit: There remains a small risk of an accidental no-deal, but it's less than it was three or four months ago.

    You do realise only you and David Cameron still say "chillax" - the rest of us have almost reached the 2020s.

    I hate it when TSE and others say "Yup" instead of "Yep" :)
    I hate it when people type "Yep" instead of "Yes"!
    Yup, I'm wiv ya on that one
    Uh-huh....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    TGOHF said:

    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:

    May cracking up in the presser.

    As in "can't contain her laughter", or as in "incoming breakdown"?
    Latter ..


    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1042776321963769856
    It must be the prospect of moving out of Downing Street as Boris moves in. That would do it.....
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:

    May cracking up in the presser.

    As in "can't contain her laughter", or as in "incoming breakdown"?
    Latter ..


    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1042776321963769856
    Angry before she started, or in response to the questions?
    https://twitter.com/jamesmatesitv/status/1042778243512901632
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    TGOHF said:

    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:

    May cracking up in the presser.

    As in "can't contain her laughter", or as in "incoming breakdown"?
    Latter ..


    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1042776321963769856
    It must be the prospect of moving out of Downing Street as Boris moves in. That would do it.....
    May God have mercy on our souls. :o
  • Blimey. I leave the Mac for a couple of hours and it seems that May's world has blown up.

    Have I got this right? EU have flatly rejected Chequers. as just about everyone said they would, except May.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:

    May cracking up in the presser.

    As in "can't contain her laughter", or as in "incoming breakdown"?
    Latter ..


    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1042776321963769856
    It must be the prospect of moving out of Downing Street as Boris moves in. That would do it.....
    Hope not - Boris is a berk.
  • Anorak said:

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    Anorak said:

    Chillax, guys. The two sides are inching towards a deal, which will be broadly based on Chequers but not identical. That's how negotiations work.

    What, you mean we can't all run around hysterically at every nuanced pronouncement? That's just not how these things work, you know.
    If in doubt, run about, scream and shout. Why people pay any attention to public pronouncements (other than the universally wise words on PB, ofc) baffles me.

    My current Bremorse level: nil.
    EU sentiment: Fuck 'em and all who sail with them.
    Well seeing as about 44% of our exports go to "them" then I guess that means a large number of our exporters and their UK employees that rely on them. But hey, as Boris says "Fuck business", fuck everyone that doesn't strut around showing off their narcissistic nationalistic credentials while they hide their miniscule appendages behind their faux patriotism
    And how many of their exports go to “us”?
    Quite a lot. But that won't replace the jobs that will be lost by the headbanger's solution. These little people's jobs are expendable in the eyes of the Brexit purist (and those like Boris and Rees-Mogg who have other forms of income) and their sacrifice will be worth it for the post Brexit Utopia in about 2068 or thereabouts.
    Maybe we sacrifice Wales and the South West, put up a fence and call it Brexitopia. Put a load of one-way turnstiles in the fence and let them get on with it.
    The problem with that type of "intelligence-cleansing" and ceding territory to the nationalistically insane is that some of the nicest places, such as Cornwall, Norfolk and SW Wales would be completely occupied by the swivel-eyed. We would be forced to take UK holidays in Brighton or Scotland. The latter is only OK once every 10 years when they get decent weather, and you have to avoid Scottish Nationalists trying saying "I don't hate the English but.."
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    They may very well be mistaken on that one..
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Staying in the single market? Yeah, can’t see May agreeing to that.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726
    No deal coming? I hope so.

    We should make a genuine move to free trade, which we can kick-start by unilaterally abolishing tariffs and import duties. That unambiguously improves our welfare. It also removes tariff protection for our producers, which is also a good thing, because a need for such protection demonstrates their lack of competitiveness.

    As far as the Irish border is concerned the EU can tell Varadkar to put up whatever controls are required to protect their industries.
  • RobD said:

    TGOHF said:

    Anorak said:

    TGOHF said:

    May cracking up in the presser.

    As in "can't contain her laughter", or as in "incoming breakdown"?
    Latter ..


    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1042776321963769856
    It must be the prospect of moving out of Downing Street as Boris moves in. That would do it.....
    May God have mercy on our souls. :o
    Well we have already made ourselves an international laughing stocks. Why not go the whole hog? It would give the yanks a bit of respite from thinking they have the biggest twat as a head of government in the G7
  • geoffw said:

    No deal coming? I hope so.

    We should make a genuine move to free trade, which we can kick-start by unilaterally abolishing tariffs and import duties. That unambiguously improves our welfare. It also removes tariff protection for our producers, which is also a good thing, because a need for such protection demonstrates their lack of competitiveness.

    As far as the Irish border is concerned the EU can tell Varadkar to put up whatever controls are required to protect their industries.

    Someone please call nurse...
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    Anorak said:

    Chillax, guys. The two sides are inching towards a deal, which will be broadly based on Chequers but not identical. That's how negotiations work.

    What, you mean we can't all run around hysterically at every nuanced pronouncement? That's just not how these things work, you know.
    If in doubt, run about, scream and shout. Why people pay any attention to public pronouncements (other than the universally wise words on PB, ofc) baffles me.

    My current Bremorse level: nil.
    EU sentiment: Fuck 'em and all who sail with them.
    Well seeing as about 44% of our exports go to "them" then I guess that means a large number of our exporters and their UK employees that rely on them. But hey, as Boris says "Fuck business", fuck everyone that doesn't strut around showing off their narcissistic nationalistic credentials while they hide their miniscule appendages behind their faux patriotism
    And how many of their exports go to “us”?
    Quite a lot. But that won't replace the jobs that will be lost by the headbanger's solution. These little people's jobs are expendable in the eyes of the Brexit purist (and those like Boris and Rees-Mogg who have other forms of income) and their sacrifice will be worth it for the post Brexit Utopia in about 2068 or thereabouts.
    Maybe we sacrifice Wales and the South West, put up a fence and call it Brexitopia. Put a load of one-way turnstiles in the fence and let them get on with it.
    The problem with that type of "intelligence-cleansing" and ceding territory to the nationalistically insane is that some of the nicest places, such as Cornwall, Norfolk and SW Wales would be completely occupied by the swivel-eyed. We would be forced to take UK holidays in Brighton or Scotland. The latter is only OK once every 10 years when they get decent weather, and you have to avoid Scottish Nationalists trying saying "I don't hate the English but.."
    After about 3 years they would have eaten each other rather than receive European aid, and it could be reclaimed. Small price to pay.
  • ....it did not look as if May was feigning anger and alarm. This did feel like significant setback. The further apart the two sides remain, the harder it is to see how they strike a deal in October.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/sep/20/salzburg-eu-summit-brexit-theresa-may-polite-doing-her-job-eu-chiefs-non-committal-verdict-on-mays-brexit-appeal-at-salzburg-politics-live?page=with:block-5ba3a8c1e4b0b62144347a78#block-5ba3a8c1e4b0b62144347a78
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    RobD said:

    Staying in the single market? Yeah, can’t see May agreeing to that.
    That should have been the pro eu supporters position from the beginning instead of trying to invalidate decision, but push the government into one they would see as least damaging, even if it was only temporary until we can agree. But now remaining in the single market will be seen as a defeat and climb down.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    Anorak said:

    Chillax, guys. The two sides are inching towards a deal, which will be broadly based on Chequers but not identical. That's how negotiations work.

    What, you mean we can't all run around hysterically at every nuanced pronouncement? That's just not how these things work, you know.
    If in doubt, run about, scream and shout. Why people pay any attention to public pronouncements (other than the universally wise words on PB, ofc) baffles me.

    My current Bremorse level: nil.
    EU sentiment: Fuck 'em and all who sail with them.
    Well seeing as about 44% of our exports go to "them" then I guess that means a large number of our exporters and their UK employees that rely on them. But hey, as Boris says "Fuck business", fuck everyone that doesn't strut around showing off their narcissistic nationalistic credentials while they hide their miniscule appendages behind their faux patriotism
    And how many of their exports go to “us”?
    Quite a lot. But that won't replace the jobs that will be lost by the headbanger's solution. These little people's jobs are expendable in the eyes of the Brexit purist (and those like Boris and Rees-Mogg who have other forms of income) and their sacrifice will be worth it for the post Brexit Utopia in about 2068 or thereabouts.
    Maybe we sacrifice Wales and the South West, put up a fence and call it Brexitopia. Put a load of one-way turnstiles in the fence and let them get on with it.
    The problem with that type of "intelligence-cleansing" and ceding territory to the nationalistically insane is that some of the nicest places, such as Cornwall, Norfolk and SW Wales would be completely occupied by the swivel-eyed. We would be forced to take UK holidays in Brighton or Scotland. The latter is only OK once every 10 years when they get decent weather, and you have to avoid Scottish Nationalists trying saying "I don't hate the English but.."
    After about 3 years they would have eaten each other rather than receive European aid, and it could be reclaimed. Small price to pay.
    You do realise that the EU aid is fully funded by the UK taxpayer?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    Anorak said:

    Chillax, guys. The two sides are inching towards a deal, which will be broadly based on Chequers but not identical. That's how negotiations work.

    What, you mean we can't all run around hysterically at every nuanced pronouncement? That's just not how these things work, you know.
    If in doubt, run about, scream and shout. Why people pay any attention to public pronouncements (other than the universally wise words on PB, ofc) baffles me.

    My current Bremorse level: nil.
    EU sentiment: Fuck 'em and all who sail with them.
    Well seeing as about 44% of our exports go to "them" then I guess that means a large number of our exporters and their UK employees that rely on them. But hey, as Boris says "Fuck business", fuck everyone that doesn't strut around showing off their narcissistic nationalistic credentials while they hide their miniscule appendages behind their faux patriotism
    And how many of their exports go to “us”?
    Quite a lot. But that won't replace the jobs that will be lost by the headbanger's solution. These little people's jobs are expendable in the eyes of the Brexit purist (and those like Boris and Rees-Mogg who have other forms of income) and their sacrifice will be worth it for the post Brexit Utopia in about 2068 or thereabouts.
    Maybe we sacrifice Wales and the South West, put up a fence and call it Brexitopia. Put a load of one-way turnstiles in the fence and let them get on with it.
    The problem with that type of "intelligence-cleansing" and ceding territory to the nationalistically insane is that some of the nicest places, such as Cornwall, Norfolk and SW Wales would be completely occupied by the swivel-eyed. We would be forced to take UK holidays in Brighton or Scotland. The latter is only OK once every 10 years when they get decent weather, and you have to avoid Scottish Nationalists trying saying "I don't hate the English but.."
    After about 3 years they would have eaten each other rather than receive European aid, and it could be reclaimed. Small price to pay.
    You do realise that the EU aid is fully funded by the UK taxpayer?
    When did logic have anything to do with Brexit and the behaviour of its most ardent supporters?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,291
    edited September 2018
    A little tetchy and forced in that clip, but not atypical Maybot and I don't really see meltdown. Did the Q&A get worse?
  • Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    Anorak said:

    Chillax, guys. The two sides are inching towards a deal, which will be broadly based on Chequers but not identical. That's how negotiations work.

    What, you mean we can't all run around hysterically at every nuanced pronouncement? That's just not how these things work, you know.
    If in doubt, run about, scream and shout. Why people pay any attention to public pronouncements (other than the universally wise words on PB, ofc) baffles me.

    My current Bremorse level: nil.
    EU sentiment: Fuck 'em and all who sail with them.
    Well seeing as about 44% of our exports go to "them" then I guess that means a large number of our exporters and their UK employees that rely on them. But hey, as Boris says "Fuck business", fuck everyone that doesn't strut around showing off their narcissistic nationalistic credentials while they hide their miniscule appendages behind their faux patriotism
    And how many of their exports go to “us”?
    Quite a lot. But that won't replace the jobs that will be lost by the headbanger's solution. These little people's jobs are expendable in the eyes of the Brexit purist (and those like Boris and Rees-Mogg who have other forms of income) and their sacrifice will be worth it for the post Brexit Utopia in about 2068 or thereabouts.
    Maybe we sacrifice Wales and the South West, put up a fence and call it Brexitopia. Put a load of one-way turnstiles in the fence and let them get on with it.
    The problem with that type of "intelligence-cleansing" and ceding territory to the nationalistically insane is that some of the nicest places, such as Cornwall, Norfolk and SW Wales would be completely occupied by the swivel-eyed. We would be forced to take UK holidays in Brighton or Scotland. The latter is only OK once every 10 years when they get decent weather, and you have to avoid Scottish Nationalists trying saying "I don't hate the English but.."
    After about 3 years they would have eaten each other rather than receive European aid, and it could be reclaimed. Small price to pay.
    mmm, you are selling me on the idea. Can we at least leave Norfolk out of the scheme?
  • The flaw in the EU's cunning plan....

    https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1042782406896431104
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Anorak said:

    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    Anorak said:

    Chillax, guys. The two sides are inching towards a deal, which will be broadly based on Chequers but not identical. That's how negotiations work.

    What, you mean we can't all run around hysterically at every nuanced pronouncement? That's just not how these things work, you know.
    If in doubt, run about, scream and shout. Why people pay any attention to public pronouncements (other than the universally wise words on PB, ofc) baffles me.

    My current Bremorse level: nil.
    EU sentiment: Fuck 'em and all who sail with them.
    Well seeing as about 44% of our exports go to "them" then I guess that means a large number of our exporters and their UK employees that rely on them. But hey, as Boris says "Fuck business", fuck everyone that doesn't strut around showing off their narcissistic nationalistic credentials while they hide their miniscule appendages behind their faux patriotism
    And how many of their exports go to “us”?
    Quite a lot. But that won't replace the jobs that will be lost by the headbanger's solution. These little people's jobs are expendable in the eyes of the Brexit purist (and those like Boris and Rees-Mogg who have other forms of income) and their sacrifice will be worth it for the post Brexit Utopia in about 2068 or thereabouts.
    Maybe we sacrifice Wales and the South West, put up a fence and call it Brexitopia. Put a load of one-way turnstiles in the fence and let them get on with it.
    The problem with that type of "intelligence-cleansing" and ceding territory to the nationalistically insane is that some of the nicest places, such as Cornwall, Norfolk and SW Wales would be completely occupied by the swivel-eyed. We would be forced to take UK holidays in Brighton or Scotland. The latter is only OK once every 10 years when they get decent weather, and you have to avoid Scottish Nationalists trying saying "I don't hate the English but.."
    After about 3 years they would have eaten each other rather than receive European aid, and it could be reclaimed. Small price to pay.
    You do realise that the EU aid is fully funded by the UK taxpayer?
    When did logic have anything to do with Brexit and the behaviour of its most ardent supporters?
    Or remainers, evidently.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    This is something of a surprise:
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/407567-poll-most-massachusetts-voters-dont-think-warren-should-run-for-president
    Most Massachusetts voters don't think Warren should run for president in 2020

    If you can't convince your own state then there's really not much point in running.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    geoffw said:

    No deal coming? I hope so.

    We should make a genuine move to free trade, which we can kick-start by unilaterally abolishing tariffs and import duties. That unambiguously improves our welfare. It also removes tariff protection for our producers, which is also a good thing, because a need for such protection demonstrates their lack of competitiveness.

    As far as the Irish border is concerned the EU can tell Varadkar to put up whatever controls are required to protect their industries.

    Someone please call nurse...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4
  • Pro_Rata said:

    A little tetchy and forced in that clip, but not atypical Maybot and I don't really see meltdown. Did the Q&A get worse?
    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1042778437461716992
  • So, a second referendum?

    [_] Norway

    [_] Canada
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    ....it did not look as if May was feigning anger and alarm. This did feel like significant setback. The further apart the two sides remain, the harder it is to see how they strike a deal in October.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/sep/20/salzburg-eu-summit-brexit-theresa-may-polite-doing-her-job-eu-chiefs-non-committal-verdict-on-mays-brexit-appeal-at-salzburg-politics-live?page=with:block-5ba3a8c1e4b0b62144347a78#block-5ba3a8c1e4b0b62144347a78

    We need PM Boris, a withdrawal from NATO and any other security cooperation with the EU, and a concerted effort to persuade Trump to withdraw from Nato too.

    That would give the EU something to think about...
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    >After about 3 years they would have eaten each other rather than receive European aid, and it could be reclaimed. Small price to pay.

    You do realise that the EU aid is fully funded by the UK taxpayer?
    When did logic have anything to do with Brexit and the behaviour of its most ardent supporters?
    Or remainers, evidently.
    Mmmm, because a non-logical statement in a joke is exactly the same as a non-logical position on the future wealth and health of a nation.
  • RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    Anorak said:

    Chillax, guys. The two sides are inching towards a deal, which will be broadly based on Chequers but not identical. That's how negotiations work.

    What, you mean we can't all run around hysterically at every nuanced pronouncement? That's just not how these things work, you know.
    If in doubt, run about, scream and shout. Why people pay any attention to public pronouncements (other than the universally wise words on PB, ofc) baffles me.

    My current Bremorse level: nil.
    EU sentiment: Fuck 'em and all who sail with them.
    Well seeing as about 44% of our exports go to "them" then I guess that means a large number of our exporters and their UK employees that rely on them. But hey, as Boris says "Fuck business", fuck everyone that doesn't strut around showing off their narcissistic nationalistic credentials while they hide their miniscule appendages behind their faux patriotism
    And how many of their exports go to “us”?
    Quite a lot. But that won't replace the jobs that will be lost by the headbanger's solution. These little people's jobs are expendable in the eyes of the Brexit purist (and those like Boris and Rees-Mogg who have other forms of income) and their sacrifice will be worth it for the post Brexit Utopia in about 2068 or thereabouts.
    Maybe we sacrifice Wales and the South West, put up a fence and call it Brexitopia. Put a load of one-way turnstiles in the fence and let them get on with it.
    The problem with that type of "intelligence-cleansing" and ceding territory to the nationalistically insane is that some of the nicest places, such as Cornwall, Norfolk and SW Wales would be completely occupied by the swivel-eyed. We would be forced to take UK holidays in Brighton or Scotland. The latter is only OK once every 10 years when they get decent weather, and you have to avoid Scottish Nationalists trying saying "I don't hate the English but.."
    After about 3 years they would have eaten each other rather than receive European aid, and it could be reclaimed. Small price to pay.
    You do realise that the EU aid is fully funded by the UK taxpayer?
    When did logic have anything to do with Brexit and the behaviour of its most ardent supporters?
    Or remainers, evidently.
    Logic is largely the preserve of those "experts" which leavers prefer to ignore.
  • JonathanD said:

    ....it did not look as if May was feigning anger and alarm. This did feel like significant setback. The further apart the two sides remain, the harder it is to see how they strike a deal in October.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/sep/20/salzburg-eu-summit-brexit-theresa-may-polite-doing-her-job-eu-chiefs-non-committal-verdict-on-mays-brexit-appeal-at-salzburg-politics-live?page=with:block-5ba3a8c1e4b0b62144347a78#block-5ba3a8c1e4b0b62144347a78

    We need PM Boris, a withdrawal from NATO and any other security cooperation with the EU, and a concerted effort to persuade Trump to withdraw from Nato too.

    That would give the EU something to think about...
    You'd rather they accepted Chequers?
  • So, a second referendum?

    [_] Norway

    [_] Canada

    I know this is totally unrelated to your comment, but every time I see your name I think "drinks are free".
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,615
    There is something very British about the fact that a third of Mail readers would vote remain and a third of FT readers would vote leave. A thoughtful conversation between those two groups would be illuminating
  • JonathanD said:

    ....it did not look as if May was feigning anger and alarm. This did feel like significant setback. The further apart the two sides remain, the harder it is to see how they strike a deal in October.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/sep/20/salzburg-eu-summit-brexit-theresa-may-polite-doing-her-job-eu-chiefs-non-committal-verdict-on-mays-brexit-appeal-at-salzburg-politics-live?page=with:block-5ba3a8c1e4b0b62144347a78#block-5ba3a8c1e4b0b62144347a78

    We need PM Boris, a withdrawal from NATO and any other security cooperation with the EU, and a concerted effort to persuade Trump to withdraw from Nato too.

    That would give the EU something to think about...
    I really don't think that an EU outside Nato with the ability of Gazprom/Putin to blackmail Germany over Gas supplies is a recipe for a safer world. Do you?
  • A rather unusual winter GE looks a little more likely this pm.
  • JonathanD said:

    ....it did not look as if May was feigning anger and alarm. This did feel like significant setback. The further apart the two sides remain, the harder it is to see how they strike a deal in October.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/sep/20/salzburg-eu-summit-brexit-theresa-may-polite-doing-her-job-eu-chiefs-non-committal-verdict-on-mays-brexit-appeal-at-salzburg-politics-live?page=with:block-5ba3a8c1e4b0b62144347a78#block-5ba3a8c1e4b0b62144347a78

    We need PM Boris, a withdrawal from NATO and any other security cooperation with the EU, and a concerted effort to persuade Trump to withdraw from Nato too.

    That would give the EU something to think about...
    Your name is Vladimir Putin and I claim my £5
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    Guardian:
    May: EU criticism of Chequers plan is 'negotiating tactic'
    British PM tries to downplay unexpectedly strong criticism of UK proposals by European leaders at Salzburg summit...


    'Tis but a scratch...
  • Miss Vance, given May's own party (both wings) dislikes Chequers, and the EU doesn't want, this does sound like her initial desire to sound a 'strong'* note after the election result.

    *And by 'strong' I mean 'one that bears no relation to reality'.
  • "She won't just roll over. She'll do a full-on Frank Spencer and bring down the whole set with her."
  • So, a second referendum?

    [_] Norway

    [_] Canada

    I know this is totally unrelated to your comment, but every time I see your name I think "drinks are free".
    I am actually Andrew Ridgeley.

    (Unfortunately for the sake of my bank balance, this is not true.)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Nigelb said:

    Guardian:
    May: EU criticism of Chequers plan is 'negotiating tactic'
    British PM tries to downplay unexpectedly strong criticism of UK proposals by European leaders at Salzburg summit...


    'Tis but a scratch...

    To be fair, they did say parts of it were okay ;)
  • Strange times we live in. I find myself agreeing with Alastair Campbell. Well, as Churchill once said; "if Hitler invaded Hell..."
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    So, a second referendum?

    [_] Norway

    [_] Canada

    I know this is totally unrelated to your comment, but every time I see your name I think "drinks are free".
    I am actually Andrew Ridgeley.

    (Unfortunately for the sake of my bank balance, this is not true.)
    Talk about right place, right time. A lucky sod, considering his fairly mediocre talent.
  • I look forward to the campaign proposing continued freedom of movement....sure fire winner!
  • It's even madder than that, the clause to keep the border open which is potentially scuppering the deal wouldn't apply anyway if there is a deal. It's Alice in Wonderland stuff.
  • Anorak said:

    So, a second referendum?

    [_] Norway

    [_] Canada

    I know this is totally unrelated to your comment, but every time I see your name I think "drinks are free".
    I am actually Andrew Ridgeley.

    (Unfortunately for the sake of my bank balance, this is not true.)
    Talk about right place, right time. A lucky sod, considering his fairly mediocre talent.
    I never realised he had so much in common with Theresa May
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,814
    edited September 2018
    Miss Vance, quite. I can see this lending support for a second vote, but the idea the Leave option would* be Norway is a concept marinated in daftness.

    Edited extra bit: should*
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389

    Anorak said:

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    Anorak said:

    Chillax, guys. The two sides are inching towards a deal, which will be broadly based on Chequers but not identical. That's how negotiations work.

    What, you mean we can't all run around hysterically at every nuanced pronouncement? That's just not how these things work, you know.
    If in doubt, run about, scream and shout. Why people pay any attention to public pronouncements (other than the universally wise words on PB, ofc) baffles me.

    My current Bremorse level: nil.
    EU sentiment: Fuck 'em and all who sail with them.
    Well seeing as about 44% of our exports go to "them" then I guess that means a large number of our exporters and their UK employees that rely on them. But hey, as Boris says "Fuck business", fuck everyone that doesn't strut around showing off their narcissistic nationalistic credentials while they hide their miniscule appendages behind their faux patriotism
    And how many of their exports go to “us”?
    Quite a lot. But that won't replace the jobs that will be lost by the headbanger's solution. These little people's jobs are expendable in the eyes of the Brexit purist (and those like Boris and Rees-Mogg who have other forms of income) and their sacrifice will be worth it for the post Brexit Utopia in about 2068 or thereabouts.
    Maybe we sacrifice Wales and the South West, put up a fence and call it Brexitopia. Put a load of one-way turnstiles in the fence and let them get on with it.
    The problem with that type of "intelligence-cleansing" and ceding territory to the nationalistically insane is that some of the nicest places, such as Cornwall, Norfolk and SW Wales would be completely occupied by the swivel-eyed. We would be forced to take UK holidays in Brighton or Scotland. The latter is only OK once every 10 years when they get decent weather, and you have to avoid Scottish Nationalists trying saying "I don't hate the English but.."
    It's not all bad, you'd still have Liverpool, West Belfast, and Inner London.
  • I look forward to the campaign proposing continued freedom of movement....sure fire winner!
    Freedom of movement is something Theresa May rather wishes she personally had right now
  • “There is no counter proposal on the table at the moment that actually deals, delivers on what we need to do and respects the integrity of the United Kingdom and respects the result of the referendum,” May told a news conference after meeting EU leaders in Salzburg, Austria.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-may-proposal-deal/uks-may-says-there-is-no-eu-counter-proposal-for-brexit-deal-idUSKCN1M02AF
  • A rather unusual winter GE looks a little more likely this pm.

    The problem would not go away with a GE unless labour promised a referendum on the EU and won

    There is no way I see how the circle can be squared and it will be upto the HOC to resolve a way through

    I do not think the EU are helping their case by calling for a second referendum obviously encouraged by many in the UK. I expect it to annoy a lot of people

    As I said previously as a moderate conservative member I despair at the ultra Brexiteers, who have failed when given the chance (yes you, Boris and Davis) and want to march us and our families jobs over the edge with their impossible dream
  • It's even madder than that, the clause to keep the border open which is potentially scuppering the deal wouldn't apply anyway if there is a deal. It's Alice in Wonderland stuff.
    Disagreements start because of misunderstandings. The assumption that you can predict how others will behave. All of this process shows that our EU friends still don't understand us and vice versa. Sad.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    It's even madder than that, the clause to keep the border open which is potentially scuppering the deal wouldn't apply anyway if there is a deal. It's Alice in Wonderland stuff.
    Yes, all this effort expended on a what if. Why not just work on the FTA?
  • Not sure if it is connected but the pound is doing well this afternoon upto 1.33 dollars/ 1.13 euros
  • RobD said:

    It's even madder than that, the clause to keep the border open which is potentially scuppering the deal wouldn't apply anyway if there is a deal. It's Alice in Wonderland stuff.
    Yes, all this effort expended on a what if. Why not just work on the FTA?
    Because an FTA cannot deliver a border without infrastructure. Therefore if you want an FTA it has to be GB-only.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    It's even madder than that, the clause to keep the border open which is potentially scuppering the deal wouldn't apply anyway if there is a deal. It's Alice in Wonderland stuff.
    Yes, all this effort expended on a what if. Why not just work on the FTA?
    Because an FTA cannot deliver a border without infrastructure. Therefore if you want an FTA it has to be GB-only.
    Even the EU have said a technological solution to that is possible.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301
    Nigelb said:

    This is something of a surprise:
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/407567-poll-most-massachusetts-voters-dont-think-warren-should-run-for-president
    Most Massachusetts voters don't think Warren should run for president in 2020

    If you can't convince your own state then there's really not much point in running.

    I note Warren is still second favourite on Betfair.
    That seems.... unlikely.
  • I look forward to the campaign proposing continued freedom of movement....sure fire winner!
    I don't. It is going to be grievous. Truly divisionary.

    But, it looks more likely as Parliament is deadlocked and Chequers was the last roll of the dice.

  • I look forward to the campaign proposing continued freedom of movement....sure fire winner!
    It certainly would be.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's even madder than that, the clause to keep the border open which is potentially scuppering the deal wouldn't apply anyway if there is a deal. It's Alice in Wonderland stuff.
    Yes, all this effort expended on a what if. Why not just work on the FTA?
    Because an FTA cannot deliver a border without infrastructure. Therefore if you want an FTA it has to be GB-only.
    Even the EU have said a technological solution to that is possible.
    Technology in ports. If you accept that then what's the problem with a GB FTA?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726

    A rather unusual winter GE looks a little more likely this pm.

    The problem would not go away with a GE unless labour promised a referendum on the EU and won

    There is no way I see how the circle can be squared and it will be upto the HOC to resolve a way through

    I do not think the EU are helping their case by calling for a second referendum obviously encouraged by many in the UK. I expect it to annoy a lot of people

    As I said previously as a moderate conservative member I despair at the ultra Brexiteers, who have failed when given the chance (yes you, Boris and Davis) and want to march us and our families jobs over the edge with their impossible dream
    Blimey, EU calling for a second referendum - what has got into them?
  • Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    RobD said:

    John_M said:

    Anorak said:

    Chillax, guys. The two sides are inching towards a deal, which will be broadly based on Chequers but not identical. That's how negotiations work.

    What, you mean we can't all run around hysterically at every nuanced pronouncement? That's just not how these things work, you know.
    If in doubt, run about, scream and shout. Why people pay any attention to public pronouncements (other than the universally wise words on PB, ofc) baffles me.

    My current Bremorse level: nil.
    EU sentiment: Fuck 'em and all who sail with them.
    Well seeing as about 44% of our exports go to "them" then I guess that means a large number of our exporters and their UK employees that rely on them. But hey, as Boris says "Fuck business", fuck everyone that doesn't strut around showing off their narcissistic nationalistic credentials while they hide their miniscule appendages behind their faux patriotism
    And how many of their exports go to “us”?
    Quite a lot. But that won't replace the jobs that will be lost by the headbanger's solution. These little people's jobs are expendable in the eyes of the Brexit purist (and those like Boris and Rees-Mogg who have other forms of income) and their sacrifice will be worth it for the post Brexit Utopia in about 2068 or thereabouts.
    Maybe we sacrifice Wales and the South West, put up a fence and call it Brexitopia. Put a load of one-way turnstiles in the fence and let them get on with it.
    The problem with that type of "intelligence-cleansing" and ceding territory to the nationalistically insane is that some of the nicest places, such as Cornwall, Norfolk and SW Wales would be completely occupied by the swivel-eyed. We would be forced to take UK holidays in Brighton or Scotland. The latter is only OK once every 10 years when they get decent weather, and you have to avoid Scottish Nationalists trying saying "I don't hate the English but.."
    It's not all bad, you'd still have Liverpool, West Belfast, and Inner London.
    Oh thanks Mr F, I feel much better. How I look forward to the delights of numerous visits to The Cavern Club, The murals of the Falls Road and the East End murder sites of the Kray Twins and Jack the Ripper! I can't wait.
  • To coin a phrase beloved by the Prime Minister, so far as I can see nothing has changed. It's just that some people who had previously been making positive noises are now making negative noises. Or am I missing something obvious?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    All this wishful thinking about a GE is laughable.

    Con MPs may be daft but they aren't stupid.
  • Bumper, meet brickwork.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Not sure if it is connected but the pound is doing well this afternoon upto 1.33 dollars/ 1.13 euros

    Retail sales strong.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    TGOHF said:

    All this wishful thinking about a GE is laughable.

    Con MPs may be daft but they aren't stupid.

    And what about the DUP pulling the plug if May signs up to the EU's proposals on Northern Ireland...?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's even madder than that, the clause to keep the border open which is potentially scuppering the deal wouldn't apply anyway if there is a deal. It's Alice in Wonderland stuff.
    Yes, all this effort expended on a what if. Why not just work on the FTA?
    Because an FTA cannot deliver a border without infrastructure. Therefore if you want an FTA it has to be GB-only.
    Even the EU have said a technological solution to that is possible.
    Technology in ports. If you accept that then what's the problem with a GB FTA?
    And in the warehouse. The problem with it is that the EU is effectively trying to annex a part of the UK.
  • geoffw said:

    A rather unusual winter GE looks a little more likely this pm.

    The problem would not go away with a GE unless labour promised a referendum on the EU and won

    There is no way I see how the circle can be squared and it will be upto the HOC to resolve a way through

    I do not think the EU are helping their case by calling for a second referendum obviously encouraged by many in the UK. I expect it to annoy a lot of people

    As I said previously as a moderate conservative member I despair at the ultra Brexiteers, who have failed when given the chance (yes you, Boris and Davis) and want to march us and our families jobs over the edge with their impossible dream
    Blimey, EU calling for a second referendum - what has got into them?
    They all agreed it would be a good idea apparently and said so
  • TGOHF said:

    All this wishful thinking about a GE is laughable.

    Con MPs may be daft but they aren't stupid.

    No sure that post will age well.
  • To coin a phrase beloved by the Prime Minister, so far as I can see nothing has changed. It's just that some people who had previously been making positive noises are now making negative noises. Or am I missing something obvious?

    I think the most noteworthy development is the increasing focus on asking Labour to rule out a second referendum.

    https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/1042767167928918016
  • Tusk remarks:

    At our EU27 working lunch today we had a good discussion on Brexit, which once again reconfirmed our full unity. Let me highlight three points.

    First, we reconfirmed that there will be no Withdrawal Agreement without a solid, operational and legally binding Irish backstop. And we continue to fully support Michel Barnier in his efforts to find such a model.

    Second, we agreed to have a joint political declaration that provides as much clarity as possible on the future relations. Everybody shared the view that while there are positive elements in the Chequers proposal, the suggested framework for economic cooperation will not work. Not least because it risks undermining the Single Market.

    Third, we also discussed the timetable for further negotiations. The moment of truth for Brexit negotiations will be the October European Council. In October we expect maximum progress and results in the Brexit talks. Then we will decide whether conditions are there to call an extraordinary summit in November to finalise and formalise the deal.


    http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2018/09/20/remarks-by-president-donald-tusk-after-the-salzburg-informal-summit/
  • The front pages are going to be a bloodbath tonight:

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1042788680665051136
  • Have they all just laid a wreath to a concept called British Credibility ?
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's even madder than that, the clause to keep the border open which is potentially scuppering the deal wouldn't apply anyway if there is a deal. It's Alice in Wonderland stuff.
    Yes, all this effort expended on a what if. Why not just work on the FTA?
    Because an FTA cannot deliver a border without infrastructure. Therefore if you want an FTA it has to be GB-only.
    Even the EU have said a technological solution to that is possible.
    Technology in ports. If you accept that then what's the problem with a GB FTA?
    And in the warehouse. The problem with it is that the EU is effectively trying to annex a part of the UK.
    Would you accept it if the Northern Ireland Assembly voted for it?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    geoffw said:

    A rather unusual winter GE looks a little more likely this pm.

    The problem would not go away with a GE unless labour promised a referendum on the EU and won

    There is no way I see how the circle can be squared and it will be upto the HOC to resolve a way through

    I do not think the EU are helping their case by calling for a second referendum obviously encouraged by many in the UK. I expect it to annoy a lot of people

    As I said previously as a moderate conservative member I despair at the ultra Brexiteers, who have failed when given the chance (yes you, Boris and Davis) and want to march us and our families jobs over the edge with their impossible dream
    Blimey, EU calling for a second referendum - what has got into them?
    They all agreed it would be a good idea apparently and said so
    Default position of the EU.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    Danny565 said:

    TGOHF said:

    All this wishful thinking about a GE is laughable.

    Con MPs may be daft but they aren't stupid.

    And what about the DUP pulling the plug if May signs up to the EU's proposals on Northern Ireland...?
    I can't help thinking that a GE now would produce a similar result to that of last year. Which could mean the Conservatives falling just short of the number needed to form any government at all, or just scraping a majority.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    It's even madder than that, the clause to keep the border open which is potentially scuppering the deal wouldn't apply anyway if there is a deal. It's Alice in Wonderland stuff.
    Yes, all this effort expended on a what if. Why not just work on the FTA?
    Because an FTA cannot deliver a border without infrastructure. Therefore if you want an FTA it has to be GB-only.
    Even the EU have said a technological solution to that is possible.
    Technology in ports. If you accept that then what's the problem with a GB FTA?
    And in the warehouse. The problem with it is that the EU is effectively trying to annex a part of the UK.
    We could say that, though the Irish would probably say that takes quite a bit of chutzpah for anyone British to suggest it
  • geoffw said:

    A rather unusual winter GE looks a little more likely this pm.

    The problem would not go away with a GE unless labour promised a referendum on the EU and won

    There is no way I see how the circle can be squared and it will be upto the HOC to resolve a way through

    I do not think the EU are helping their case by calling for a second referendum obviously encouraged by many in the UK. I expect it to annoy a lot of people

    As I said previously as a moderate conservative member I despair at the ultra Brexiteers, who have failed when given the chance (yes you, Boris and Davis) and want to march us and our families jobs over the edge with their impossible dream
    Blimey, EU calling for a second referendum - what has got into them?
    They all agreed it would be a good idea apparently and said so
    Default position of the EU.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.

    Vote again, until you get the result we want.....
    I think you kid yourself that "they" want us to change "our" minds.
  • Mr. Glenn, subsidiary/devolved political bodies don't get to unilaterally declare independence or decide which country's laws and regulations they wish to apply.

    Otherwise you'd have businesses in the UK paying Irish corporation tax, individuals choosing to adopt the American First Amendment for free speech (and maybe the Second Amendment too).

    If the Northern Irish people choose to leave the UK, that would have to be respected. But it is not for a temporary crop of politicians to unilaterally make such a decision without a democratic mandate via a referendum.

    Mr. D, indeed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301

    Tusk remarks:

    At our EU27 working lunch today we had a good discussion on Brexit, which once again reconfirmed our full unity. Let me highlight three points.

    First, we reconfirmed that there will be no Withdrawal Agreement without a solid, operational and legally binding Irish backstop. And we continue to fully support Michel Barnier in his efforts to find such a model.

    Second, we agreed to have a joint political declaration that provides as much clarity as possible on the future relations. Everybody shared the view that while there are positive elements in the Chequers proposal, the suggested framework for economic cooperation will not work. Not least because it risks undermining the Single Market.

    Third, we also discussed the timetable for further negotiations. The moment of truth for Brexit negotiations will be the October European Council. In October we expect maximum progress and results in the Brexit talks. Then we will decide whether conditions are there to call an extraordinary summit in November to finalise and formalise the deal.


    http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2018/09/20/remarks-by-president-donald-tusk-after-the-salzburg-informal-summit/

    May described the discussions as "frank".
    I think we know what that means.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726

    geoffw said:

    A rather unusual winter GE looks a little more likely this pm.

    The problem would not go away with a GE unless labour promised a referendum on the EU and won

    There is no way I see how the circle can be squared and it will be upto the HOC to resolve a way through

    I do not think the EU are helping their case by calling for a second referendum obviously encouraged by many in the UK. I expect it to annoy a lot of people

    As I said previously as a moderate conservative member I despair at the ultra Brexiteers, who have failed when given the chance (yes you, Boris and Davis) and want to march us and our families jobs over the edge with their impossible dream
    Blimey, EU calling for a second referendum - what has got into them?
    They all agreed it would be a good idea apparently and said so
    No doubt.
    Has the idea of a second referendum ever occurred to them before, I wonder?

    Among other points, she stressed that there would be no second referendum on Brexit. For Brussels, that statement is heard as “no second referendum on Brexit while May is prime minister.”
    https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-leaders-avoid-rocking-brexit-boat-salzburg-ireland-border/
This discussion has been closed.