Two more Swedish polls suggest the Social Democrats and allies and the Coalition will get c.39% each, with the SD's on 18-20%. The Coalition will be very tempted to cut some sort of deal with the SD's if that is the outcome.
They will not touch the SDs with a barge pole!They don't need to.
Er, yes they do. Why would the SD let them get into power if they get no concessions? That’s not a reasonable way to treat a party with 20% of the vote.
They could keep the existing coalition in office and vote against all their legislation. Bringing the Riksdag to a halt might help to concentrate minds.
Add up the Social Democrats, the Moderates, the Greens [ MP ] and the Liberals. The SD can go to hell.
That’s fine. In 4 years’ time, the SD can campaign on a ‘they’re all the same’ platform. Their % of the vote will rise further and the Moderates will shrink.
The SDs are fascists.
To be fair, they only have Fascist roots and founders, they have moderated their positions to curry votes
Two more Swedish polls suggest the Social Democrats and allies and the Coalition will get c.39% each, with the SD's on 18-20%. The Coalition will be very tempted to cut some sort of deal with the SD's if that is the outcome.
They will not touch the SDs with a barge pole!They don't need to.
+1. Their relationship with the SDs is like Merkel's with the AfD - seen as ideologically repulsive (despite some recent efforts to clean up their act), and a direct threat to their voter base. It's as likely as the Tories having a pact with UKIP if UKIP started taking more of their votes.
But if they get more votes than the Social Democrat alliance, they'll form a minority government.
Off topic - has anyone seen the video doing the rounds on social media of Beto O'Rourke talking about NFL players "taking the knee" during the national anthem...what an impressive politician !
Two more Swedish polls suggest the Social Democrats and allies and the Coalition will get c.39% each, with the SD's on 18-20%. The Coalition will be very tempted to cut some sort of deal with the SD's if that is the outcome.
They will not touch the SDs with a barge pole!They don't need to.
Er, yes they do. Why would the SD let them get into power if they get no concessions? That’s not a reasonable way to treat a party with 20% of the vote.
They could keep the existing coalition in office and vote against all their legislation. Bringing the Riksdag to a halt might help to concentrate minds.
Add up the Social Democrats, the Moderates, the Greens [ MP ] and the Liberals. The SD can go to hell.
That’s fine. In 4 years’ time, the SD can campaign on a ‘they’re all the same’ platform. Their % of the vote will rise further and the Moderates will shrink.
Could be a Social Democrat and Moderate Grand Coalition a la Germany if neither the centre left nor the centre right blocks have a majority with the Swedish Democrats like the AfD becoming the main opposition party
That level of delusion is really crying out for an intervention.
Whilst that may be true I think we should leave the precedents of putting political opponents in mental hospitals set by his good friends in the Soviet Union alone.
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
Two more Swedish polls suggest the Social Democrats and allies and the Coalition will get c.39% each, with the SD's on 18-20%. The Coalition will be very tempted to cut some sort of deal with the SD's if that is the outcome.
They will not touch the SDs with a barge pole!They don't need to.
Er, yes they do. Why would the SD let them get into power if they get no concessions? That’s not a reasonable way to treat a party with 20% of the vote.
They could keep the existing coalition in office and vote against all their legislation. Bringing the Riksdag to a halt might help to concentrate minds.
Add up the Social Democrats, the Moderates, the Greens [ MP ] and the Liberals. The SD can go to hell.
That’s fine. In 4 years’ time, the SD can campaign on a ‘they’re all the same’ platform. Their % of the vote will rise further and the Moderates will shrink.
Could be a Social Democrat and Moderate Grand Coalition a la Germany if neither the centre left nor the centre right blocks have a majority with the Swedish Democrats like the AfD becoming the main opposition party
Your posts aren't so entertaining now they are no longer backed by absolutely conclusive polling evidence.
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
But for it to be an argument, it should have some basis in reality. Not a conspiracy theory.
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
No it’s not it’s seriously nuts.
The Warsaw Pact was the military arm of a system that walled people in and shot them if they tried to leave. NATO was a spectacularly successful defence against that.
You can be as hippy dippy as you like, it doesn’t excuse it.
On topic, dire news for the Tories if Corbyn's ratings have really fallen so far and yet barely moved the needle on voting intention
It's certainly worth keeping an eye on that phenomenon. It suggests to me that Labour have a lot of potential upside when they get a leader who is not a disgrace. They need to decide if they want power or to be a slightly shoddy protest group.
Their tactic last time was to take advantage of the media's requirement to give equal time during an election, based on the belief that when the public actually saw Corbyn speak for himself, they'd like him.
It appeared to work, though it's possible to argue that actually May did it all for him. Still, the party hasn't had a lot of luck with centrists since the extremely charismatic Blair, and it'd completely suck the energy out of the base if he was replaced with somebody who they didn't agree with politically. So I'm not at all convinced that replacing him is the safer bet.
He's a loser. He's lost already and he will lose again bigly. Do you agree with him that the Attlee government promoted NATO as part of a conspiracy to have a cold war with the Soviet Union?
He said this in 2014, shortly after Russia had seized the Crimea using military force.
Uh, no?
Aren't we taking about trying to predict election results here? Whether or not you like him accounts for at most one vote, so it doesn't seem very relevant
Oh I agree, my views count for nothing. But he is not going to get the easy ride he did in 2017 again. Idiotic, frankly imbecilic statements like that, will damage a party which, as you point out, has so far retained its support. Last time JC lifted the Labour vote, next time if he stands, he will be a drag on it.
I certainly wouldn't rule it out. The Tories have had an opportunity to learn what didn't work against him last time.
We've got a bizarre situation where neither of the leaders of our main political parties are actually fit for purpose. But one is merely useless, the other is a dangerous fool. It's a sub optimal choice.
The advantage for Labour is they have reasonable alternatives (e.g. Thornberry, Starmer) where the Conservatives have who?
On topic, dire news for the Tories if Corbyn's ratings have really fallen so far and yet barely moved the needle on voting intention
It's certainly worth keeping an eye on that phenomenon. It suggests to me that Labour have a lot of potential upside when they get a leader who is not a disgrace. They need to decide if they want power or to be a slightly shoddy protest group.
Their tactic last time was to take advantage of the media's requirement to give equal time during an election, based on the belief that when the public actually saw Corbyn speak for himself, they'd like him.
It appeared to work, though it's possible to argue that actually May did it all for him. Still, the party hasn't had a lot of luck with centrists since the extremely charismatic Blair, and it'd completely suck the energy out of the base if he was replaced with somebody who they didn't agree with politically. So I'm not at all convinced that replacing him is the safer bet.
He's a loser. He's lost already and he will lose again bigly. Do you agree with him that the Attlee government promoted NATO as part of a conspiracy to have a cold war with the Soviet Union?
He said this in 2014, shortly after Russia had seized the Crimea using military force.
Uh, no?
Aren't we taking about trying to predict election results here? Whether or not you like him accounts for at most one vote, so it doesn't seem very relevant
Oh I agree, my views count for nothing. But he is not going to get the easy ride he did in 2017 again. Idiotic, frankly imbecilic statements like that, will damage a party which, as you point out, has so far retained its support. Last time JC lifted the Labour vote, next time if he stands, he will be a drag on it.
I certainly wouldn't rule it out. The Tories have had an opportunity to learn what didn't work against him last time.
We've got a bizarre situation where neither of the leaders of our main political parties are actually fit for purpose. But one is merely useless, the other is a dangerous fool. It's a sub optimal choice.
The advantage for Labour is they have reasonable alternatives (e.g. Thornberry, Starmer) where the Conservatives have who?
I imagine Corbyn will choose his successor unless he has to go against his will
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
No it’s not it’s seriously nuts.
The Warsaw Pact was the military arm of a system that walled people in and shot them if they tried to leave. NATO was a spectacularly successful defence against that.
You can be as hippy dippy as you like, it doesn’t excuse it.
Plenty of people seemingly willing to get out the bunting, put the champagne on ice and stand ready to adore the Prime Minister according to the Mail.
Yes, sterling has soared an incredible two cents against the dollar and the euro.
Barnier has reportedly said we will get a deal unlike that offered to any country - well, that can mean anything but one thing it doesn't seem to mean is the SM for goods which drives a coach and horses through the Chequers Agreement. We may get something like an FTA but it won't be SM membership or anything like it so perhaps one cheer rather than three and of course there's a lot of other detail even at this late stage.
Clearly, no one in the EU wants the UK to crash out without a deal on 29/3/19 (and I doubt the majority do here either) so "something" is being cobbled together with the can kicked down the road again for the transition period but we have an FTA with Lesotho (apparently) so there's nothing to worry about.
On topic, dire news for the Tories if Corbyn's ratings have really fallen so far and yet barely moved the needle on voting intention
It's certainly worth keeping an eye on that phenomenon. It suggests to me that Labour have a lot of potential upside when they get a leader who is not a disgrace. They need to decide if they want power or to be a slightly shoddy protest group.
Their tactic last time was to take advantage of the media's requirement to give equal time during an election, based on the belief that when the public actually saw Corbyn speak for himself, they'd like him.
It appeared to work, though it's possible to argue that actually May did it all for him. Still, the party hasn't had a lot of luck with centrists since the extremely charismatic Blair, and it'd completely suck the energy out of the base if he was replaced with somebody who they didn't agree with politically. So I'm not at all convinced that replacing him is the safer bet.
He's a loser. He's lost already and he will lose again bigly. Do you agree with him that the Attlee government promoted NATO as part of a conspiracy to have a cold war with the Soviet Union?
He said this in 2014, shortly after Russia had seized the Crimea using military force.
Uh, no?
Aren't we taking about trying to predict election results here? Whether or not you like him accounts for at most one vote, so it doesn't seem very relevant
Oh I agree, my views count for nothing. But he is not going to get the easy ride he did in 2017 again. Idiotic, frankly imbecilic statements like that, will damage a party which, as you point out, has so far retained its support. Last time JC lifted the Labour vote, next time if he stands, he will be a drag on it.
I certainly wouldn't rule it out. The Tories have had an opportunity to learn what didn't work against him last time.
We've got a bizarre situation where neither of the leaders of our main political parties are actually fit for purpose. But one is merely useless, the other is a dangerous fool. It's a sub optimal choice.
The advantage for Labour is they have reasonable alternatives (e.g. Thornberry, Starmer) where the Conservatives have who?
Two more Swedish polls suggest the Social Democrats and allies and the Coalition will get c.39% each, with the SD's on 18-20%. The Coalition will be very tempted to cut some sort of deal with the SD's if that is the outcome.
They will not touch the SDs with a barge pole!They don't need to.
Er, yes they do. Why would the SD let them get into power if they get no concessions? That’s not a reasonable way to treat a party with 20% of the vote.
They could keep the existing coalition in office and vote against all their legislation. Bringing the Riksdag to a halt might help to concentrate minds.
Add up the Social Democrats, the Moderates, the Greens [ MP ] and the Liberals. The SD can go to hell.
That’s fine. In 4 years’ time, the SD can campaign on a ‘they’re all the same’ platform. Their % of the vote will rise further and the Moderates will shrink.
The SDs are fascists.
Fascist has a quite broad definition these days, doesn't it?
Thank goodness everyone's much more rigorous over the terms Marxist, Stalinist, Communist etc.
On topic, dire news for the Tories if Corbyn's ratings have really fallen so far and yet barely moved the needle on voting intention
It's certainly worth keeping an eye on that phenomenon. It suggests to me that Labour have a lot of potential upside when they get a leader who is not a disgrace. They need to decide if they want power or to be a slightly shoddy protest group.
Their tactic last time was to take advantage of the media's requirement to give equal time during an election, based on the belief that when the public actually saw Corbyn speak for himself, they'd like him.
It appeared to work, though it's possible to argue that actually May did it all for him. Still, the party hasn't had a lot of luck with centrists since the extremely charismatic Blair, and it'd completely suck the energy out of the base if he was replaced with somebody who they didn't agree with politically. So I'm not at all convinced that replacing him is the safer bet.
He's a loser. He's lost already and he will lose again bigly. Do you agree with him that the Attlee government promoted NATO as part of a conspiracy to have a cold war with the Soviet Union?
He said this in 2014, shortly after Russia had seized the Crimea using military force.
Uh, no?
Aren't we taking about trying to predict election results here? Whether or not you like him accounts for at most one vote, so it doesn't seem very relevant
Oh I agree, my views count for nothing. But he is not going to get the easy ride he did in 2017 again. Idiotic, frankly imbecilic statements like that, will damage a party which, as you point out, has so far retained its support. Last time JC lifted the Labour vote, next time if he stands, he will be a drag on it.
I certainly wouldn't rule it out. The Tories have had an opportunity to learn what didn't work against him last time.
We've got a bizarre situation where neither of the leaders of our main political parties are actually fit for purpose. But one is merely useless, the other is a dangerous fool. It's a sub optimal choice.
The advantage for Labour is they have reasonable alternatives (e.g. Thornberry, Starmer) where the Conservatives have who?
Starmer a charisma free zone, Thornberry Ed Miliband in a skirt
On topic, dire news for the Tories if Corbyn's ratings have really fallen so far and yet barely moved the needle on voting intention
It's certainly worth keeping an eye on that phenomenon. It suggests to me that Labour have a lot of potential upside when they get a leader who is not a disgrace. They need to decide if they want power or to be a slightly shoddy protest group.
Their tactic last time was to take advantage of the media's requirement to give equal time during an election, based on the belief that when the public actually saw Corbyn speak for himself, they'd like him.
It appeared to work, though it's possible to argue that actually May did it all for him. Still, the party hasn't had a lot of luck with centrists since the extremely charismatic Blair, and it'd completely suck the energy out of the base if he was replaced with somebody who they didn't agree with politically. So I'm not at all convinced that replacing him is the safer bet.
He's a loser. He's lost already and he will lose again bigly. Do you agree with him that the Attlee government promoted NATO as part of a conspiracy to have a cold war with the Soviet Union?
He said this in 2014, shortly after Russia had seized the Crimea using military force.
Uh, no?
Aren't we taking about trying to predict election results here? Whether or not you like him accounts for at most one vote, so it doesn't seem very relevant
Oh I agree, my views count for nothing. But he is not going to get the easy ride he did in 2017 again. Idiotic, frankly imbecilic statements like that, will damage a party which, as you point out, has so far retained its support. Last time JC lifted the Labour vote, next time if he stands, he will be a drag on it.
I certainly wouldn't rule it out. The Tories have had an opportunity to learn what didn't work against him last time.
We've got a bizarre situation where neither of the leaders of our main political parties are actually fit for purpose. But one is merely useless, the other is a dangerous fool. It's a sub optimal choice.
The advantage for Labour is they have reasonable alternatives (e.g. Thornberry, Starmer) where the Conservatives have who?
Perhaps an implication that, unlike his predecessor, he has a reasonably good idea about what is going on?
Bold assumption David, if he does he will be the first
I fully accept that it is a bit of a stretch Malcolm. And not one corroborated by his rather lamentable performance with the advice notes. That's why I wondered if it indicated that a deal was indeed imminent. Meeting Barnier for a long meeting on Friday.
For sure I would expect them to come up with some kind of fudge.
Perhaps an implication that, unlike his predecessor, he has a reasonably good idea about what is going on?
Bold assumption David, if he does he will be the first
I fully accept that it is a bit of a stretch Malcolm. And not one corroborated by his rather lamentable performance with the advice notes. That's why I wondered if it indicated that a deal was indeed imminent. Meeting Barnier for a long meeting on Friday.
For sure I would expect them to come up with some kind of fudge.
Two more Swedish polls suggest the Social Democrats and allies and the Coalition will get c.39% each, with the SD's on 18-20%. The Coalition will be very tempted to cut some sort of deal with the SD's if that is the outcome.
They will not touch the SDs with a barge pole!They don't need to.
Er, yes they do. Why would the SD let them get into power if they get no concessions? That’s not a reasonable way to treat a party with 20% of the vote.
They could keep the existing coalition in office and vote against all their legislation. Bringing the Riksdag to a halt might help to concentrate minds.
Add up the Social Democrats, the Moderates, the Greens [ MP ] and the Liberals. The SD can go to hell.
That’s fine. In 4 years’ time, the SD can campaign on a ‘they’re all the same’ platform. Their % of the vote will rise further and the Moderates will shrink.
The SDs are fascists.
To be fair, they only have Fascist roots and founders, they have moderated their positions to curry votes
Plenty of people seemingly willing to get out the bunting, put the champagne on ice and stand ready to adore the Prime Minister according to the Mail.
Yes, sterling has soared an incredible two cents against the dollar and the euro.
Barnier has reportedly said we will get a deal unlike that offered to any country - well, that can mean anything but one thing it doesn't seem to mean is the SM for goods which drives a coach and horses through the Chequers Agreement. We may get something like an FTA but it won't be SM membership or anything like it so perhaps one cheer rather than three and of course there's a lot of other detail even at this late stage.
Clearly, no one in the EU wants the UK to crash out without a deal on 29/3/19 (and I doubt the majority do here either) so "something" is being cobbled together with the can kicked down the road again for the transition period but we have an FTA with Lesotho (apparently) so there's nothing to worry about.
To be honest, Chequers was never going to fly. As almost every Leaver on here suggested at the time....
On topic, dire news for the Tories if Corbyn's ratings have really fallen so far and yet barely moved the needle on voting intention
It's certainly worth keeping an eye on that phenomenon. It suggests to me that Labour have a lot of potential upside when they get a leader who is not a disgrace. They need to decide if they want power or to be a slightly shoddy protest group.
Their tactic last time was to take advantage of the media's requirement to give equal time during an election, based on the belief that when the public actually saw Corbyn speak for himself, they'd like him.
It appeared to work, though it's possible to argue that actually May did it all for him. Still, the party hasn't had a lot of luck with centrists since the extremely charismatic Blair, and it'd completely suck the energy out of the base if he was replaced with somebody who they didn't agree with politically. So I'm not at all convinced that replacing him is the safer bet.
He's a loser. He's lost already and he will lose again bigly. Do you agree with him that the Attlee government promoted NATO as part of a conspiracy to have a cold war with the Soviet Union?
He said this in 2014, shortly after Russia had seized the Crimea using military force.
Uh, no?
Aren't we taking about trying to predict election results here? Whether or not you like him accounts for at most one vote, so it doesn't seem very relevant
Oh I agree, my views count for nothing. But he is not going to get the easy ride he did in 2017 again. Idiotic, frankly imbecilic statements like that, will damage a party which, as you point out, has so far retained its support. Last time JC lifted the Labour vote, next time if he stands, he will be a drag on it.
I certainly wouldn't rule it out. The Tories have had an opportunity to learn what didn't work against him last time.
We've got a bizarre situation where neither of the leaders of our main political parties are actually fit for purpose. But one is merely useless, the other is a dangerous fool. It's a sub optimal choice.
The advantage for Labour is they have reasonable alternatives (e.g. Thornberry, Starmer) where the Conservatives have who?
Javid, Hunt. Err...
Boris love him or loathe him is still the most charismatic election winner in the Commons
Plenty of people seemingly willing to get out the bunting, put the champagne on ice and stand ready to adore the Prime Minister according to the Mail.
Yes, sterling has soared an incredible two cents against the dollar and the euro.
Barnier has reportedly said we will get a deal unlike that offered to any country - well, that can mean anything but one thing it doesn't seem to mean is the SM for goods which drives a coach and horses through the Chequers Agreement. We may get something like an FTA but it won't be SM membership or anything like it so perhaps one cheer rather than three and of course there's a lot of other detail even at this late stage.
Clearly, no one in the EU wants the UK to crash out without a deal on 29/3/19 (and I doubt the majority do here either) so "something" is being cobbled together with the can kicked down the road again for the transition period but we have an FTA with Lesotho (apparently) so there's nothing to worry about.
A FTA that ends free movement would be a triumph for May even if it does not replicate Chequers exactly that was merely her opening offer
On topic, dire news for the Tories if Corbyn's ratings have really fallen so far and yet barely moved the needle on voting intention
It's certainly worth keeping an eye on that phenomenon. It suggests to me that Labour have a lot of potential upside when they get a leader who is not a disgrace. They need to decide if they want power or to be a slightly shoddy protest group.
Their tactic last time was to take advantage of the media's requirement to give equal time during an election, based on the belief that when the public actually saw Corbyn speak for himself, they'd like him.
It appeared to work, though it's possible to argue that actually May did it all for him. Still, the party hasn't had a lot of luck with centrists since the extremely charismatic Blair, and it'd completely suck the energy out of the base if he was replaced with somebody who they didn't agree with politically. So I'm not at all convinced that replacing him is the safer bet.
He's a loser. He's lost already and he will lose again bigly. Do you agree with him that the Attlee government promoted NATO as part of a conspiracy to have a cold war with the Soviet Union?
He said this in 2014, shortly after Russia had seized the Crimea using military force.
Uh, no?
Aren't we taking about trying to predict election results here? Whether or not you like him accounts for at most one vote, so it doesn't seem very relevant
Oh I agree, my views count for nothing. But he is not going to get the easy ride he did in 2017 again. Idiotic, frankly imbecilic statements like that, will damage a party which, as you point out, has so far retained its support. Last time JC lifted the Labour vote, next time if he stands, he will be a drag on it.
I certainly wouldn't rule it out. The Tories have had an opportunity to learn what didn't work against him last time.
We've got a bizarre situation where neither of the leaders of our main political parties are actually fit for purpose. But one is merely useless, the other is a dangerous fool. It's a sub optimal choice.
The advantage for Labour is they have reasonable alternatives (e.g. Thornberry, Starmer) where the Conservatives have who?
Javid, Hunt. Err...
Boris love him or loathe him is still the most charismatic election winner in the Commons
Maybe but I was asked for reasonable alternatives and he does not qualify.
On topic, dire news for the Tories if Corbyn's ratings have really fallen so far and yet barely moved the needle on voting intention
It's certainly worth keeping an eye on that phenomenon. It suggests to me that Labour have a lot of potential upside when they get a leader who is not a disgrace. They need to decide if they want power or to be a slightly shoddy protest group.
Their tactic last time was to take advantage of the media's requirement to give equal time during an election, based on the belief that when the public actually saw Corbyn speak for himself, they'd like him.
It appeared to work, though it's possible to argue that actually May did it all for him. Still, the party hasn't had a lot of luck with centrists since the extremely charismatic Blair, and it'd completely suck the energy out of the base if he was replaced with somebody who they didn't agree with politically. So I'm not at all convinced that replacing him is the safer bet.
He's a loser. He's lost already and he will lose again bigly. Do you agree with him that the Attlee government promoted NATO as part of a conspiracy to have a cold war with the Soviet Union?
He said this in 2014, shortly after Russia had seized the Crimea using military force.
Uh, no?
Aren't we taking about trying to predict election results here? Whether or not you like him accounts for at most one vote, so it doesn't seem very relevant
Oh I agree, my views count for nothing. But he is not going to get the easy ride he did in 2017 again. Idiotic, frankly imbecilic statements like that, will damage a party which, as you point out, has so far retained its support. Last time JC lifted the Labour vote, next time if he stands, he will be a drag on it.
I certainly wouldn't rule it out. The Tories have had an opportunity to learn what didn't work against him last time.
We've got a bizarre situation where neither of the leaders of our main political parties are actually fit for purpose. But one is merely useless, the other is a dangerous fool. It's a sub optimal choice.
The advantage for Labour is they have reasonable alternatives (e.g. Thornberry, Starmer) where the Conservatives have who?
Javid, Hunt. Err...
Boris love him or loathe him is still the most charismatic election winner in the Commons
On topic, dire news for the Tories if Corbyn's ratings have really fallen so far and yet barely moved the needle on voting intention
It's certainly worth keeping an eye on that phenomenon. It suggests to me that Labour have a lot of potential upside when they get a leader who is not a disgrace. They need to decide if they want power or to be a slightly shoddy protest group.
Their tactic last time was to take advantage of the media's requirement to give equal time during an election, based on the belief that when the public actually e safer bet.
He's a loser. He's lost already and he will lose again bigly. Do you agree with him that the Attlee government promoted NATO as part of a conspiracy to have a cold war with the Soviet Union?
He said this in 2014, shortly after Russia had seized the Crimea using military force.
Uh, no?
Aren't we taking about trying to predict election results here? Whether or not you like him accounts for at most one vote, so it doesn't seem very relevant
Oh I agree, my views count for nothing. But he is not going to get the easy ride he did in 2017 again. Idiotic, frankly imbecilic statements like that, will damage a party which, as you point out, has so far retained its support. Last time JC lifted the Labour vote, next time if he stands, he will be a drag on it.
I certainly wouldn't rule it out. The Tories have had an opportunity to learn what didn't work against him last time.
We've got a bizarre situation where neither of the leaders of our main political parties are actually fit for purpose. But one is merely useless, the other is a dangerous fool. It's a sub optimal choice.
The advantage for Labour is they have reasonable alternatives (e.g. Thornberry, Starmer) where the Conservatives have who?
Javid, Hunt. Err...
Boris love him or loathe him is still the most charismatic election winner in the Commons
He is yesterdays news
We will see, if May gets a Deal that passes the Commons you are probably right, if there is No Deal or a permanent transition in effect all bets are off
Perhaps an implication that, unlike his predecessor, he has a reasonably good idea about what is going on?
Bold assumption David, if he does he will be the first
I fully accept that it is a bit of a stretch Malcolm. And not one corroborated by his rather lamentable performance with the advice notes. That's why I wondered if it indicated that a deal was indeed imminent. Meeting Barnier for a long meeting on Friday.
For sure I would expect them to come up with some kind of fudge.
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
It’s as if he (and you) are unaware of the gulags, the repressions, the way dissidents were locked up in mental hospitals, the genocide perpetrated on the Ukrainian people, the 1953 uprising by East Germany, the show trials in the Warsaw pact countries, the killings and forced suicides, the Berlin Wall, the shooting of those who wanted to escape their prison, the 1956 Hungarian uprising, the multiple Polish rebellions, the 1968 uprising in Czechoslovakia and so on and so forth. It’s as if he’s wholly unaware of - or ignores - the reality of life in the Soviet Union in the years before 1948 and its deliberate undermining of any attempt to create a normal democratic society in the countries liberated from Nazism. Those countries exchanged one brutal totalitarian regime for another. Their liberation did not come until 1989.
There is nothing idealistic about defending the vile regime which was the Soviet Union.
Rubbish - one may not agree with all of it, but Corbyn made many valid points.
NATO is obsolescent. A common EU armed force should be created to replace it for the defence of Europe, from Brest to Brest, in tandem with a common EU foreign policy. The EU should be the sole representative of Europe on the UN security council west of the River Bug.
On topic, dire news for the Tories if Corbyn's ratings have really fallen so far and yet barely moved the needle on voting intention
It's certainly worth keeping an eye on that phenomenon. It suggests to me that Labour have a lot of potential upside when they get a leader who is not a disgrace. They need to decide if they want power or to be a slightly shoddy protest group.
Their tactic last time was to take advantage of the media's requirement to give equal time during an election, based on the belief that when the ed with somebody who they didn't agree with politically. So I'm not at all convinced that replacing him is the safer bet.
He's a loser. He's lost already and he will lose again bigly. Do you agree with him that the Attlee government promoted NATO as part of a conspiracy to have a cold war with the Soviet Union?
He said this in 2014, shortly after Russia had seized the Crimea using military force.
Uh, no?
Aren't we taking about trying to predict election results here? Whether or not you like him accounts for at most one vote, so it doesn't seem very relevant
Oh I agree, my views count for nothing. But he is not going to get the easy ride he did in 2017 again. Idiotic, frankly imbecilic statements like that, will damage a party which, as you point out, has so far retained its support. Last time JC lifted the Labour vote, next time if he stands, he will be a drag on it.
I certainly wouldn't rule it out. The Tories have had an opportunity to learn what didn't work against him last time.
We've got a bizarre situation where neither of the leaders of our main political parties are actually fit for purpose. But one is merely useless, the other is a dangerous fool. It's a sub optimal choice.
The advantage for Labour is they have reasonable alternatives (e.g. Thornberry, Starmer) where the Conservatives have who?
Javid, Hunt. Err...
Boris love him or loathe him is still the most charismatic election winner in the Commons
Maybe but I was asked for reasonable alternatives and he does not qualify.
Your reasonable is not most Tory members reasonable
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
No it’s not it’s seriously nuts.
The Warsaw Pact was the military arm of a system that walled people in and shot them if they tried to leave. NATO was a spectacularly successful defence against that.
You can be as hippy dippy as you like, it doesn’t excuse it.
"Nonsense! The Berlin Wall was built by NATO!!!"
Lol!
About 20% of East Germany’s population has fled by the time the wall went up. I seem to recall the rate was up to over 300k per annum by the Summer of 1961 so given a population of about 16M and one assumes a working population of about half that the place was disappearing before their very eyes, despite being the workers’ paradise. So Ulbricht built a wall and had anyone crossing it shot. It was later bolstered by anti personnel mines for good measure.
Of course Hungary, and Czechoslovakia were suppressed at the point of a gun in 56 and 68. Romania had every typewriter registered and each household was allowed a dazzling 40w bulb to light the nights. Poland was put under martial law in 81 for getting the wrong idea too. There were of course no free elections and anyone who spoke out, like Havel for instance, ended up in the slammer or worse.
Yet Roger admires the hippy idealism of Corbyn. Words really fail me.
When? Last week? last yea?. There’s no way I’d support that sort of language but I cringe a bit when I recall some of my remarks in student days.
60 years ago!
2913 apparently. Verifiable facts seem a little thin on the ground. For instance I'd be interested to know who the 'controversial pro-Palestinian group with links to the far right' was. Also 'while Mr Corbyn ordered her out of the room' immediately followed by 'The Labour leader - then a backbench MP - said: "Can you all quietly leave the room please?"' seems somewhat at odds.
Rubbish - one may not agree with all of it, but Corbyn made many valid points.
NATO is obsolescent. A common EU armed force should be created to replace it for the defence of Europe, from Brest to Brest, in tandem with a common EU foreign policy. The EU should be the sole representative of Europe on the UN security council west of the River Bug.
Corbyn is beyond parody in this. It’s just totally nuts. I’d laugh if it were not so serious.
When? Last week? last yea?. There’s no way I’d support that sort of language but I cringe a bit when I recall some of my remarks in student days.
60 years ago!
In 2013 and there is video.
Corbyn leaves me speechless and disgusted and is not fit to lead a major UK party sadly
Can anyone image how long TM would last if she behaved this way
Any other Party leader. The LibDems had the local difficulty of a leader with slightly embarrassing views on gays and sin --> gone. The UKIP leader had a racist girlfriend --> gone. The Tories just had a quiet man, turning up the volume --> gone.
Two more Swedish polls suggest the Social Democrats and allies and the Coalition will get c.39% each, with the SD's on 18-20%. The Coalition will be very tempted to cut some sort of deal with the SD's if that is the outcome.
They will not touch the SDs with a barge pole!They don't need to.
Er, yes they do. Why would the SD let them get into power if they get no concessions? That’s not a reasonable way to treat a party with 20% of the vote.
They could keep the existing coalition in office and vote against all their legislation. Bringing the Riksdag to a halt might help to concentrate minds.
Add up the Social Democrats, the Moderates, the Greens [ MP ] and the Liberals. The SD can go to hell.
That’s fine. In 4 years’ time, the SD can campaign on a ‘they’re all the same’ platform. Their % of the vote will rise further and the Moderates will shrink.
Could be a Social Democrat and Moderate Grand Coalition a la Germany if neither the centre left nor the centre right blocks have a majority with the Swedish Democrats like the AfD becoming the main opposition party
Your posts aren't so entertaining now they are no longer backed by absolutely conclusive polling evidence.
Although I’m still looking forward hearing more about the liberal democracy that is Hong Kong SAR.
Rubbish - one may not agree with all of it, but Corbyn made many valid points.
NATO is obsolescent. A common EU armed force should be created to replace it for the defence of Europe, from Brest to Brest, in tandem with a common EU foreign policy. The EU should be the sole representative of Europe on the UN security council west of the River Bug.
Rubbish - one may not agree with all of it, but Corbyn made many valid points.
NATO is obsolescent. A common EU armed force should be created to replace it for the defence of Europe, from Brest to Brest, in tandem with a common EU foreign policy. The EU should be the sole representative of Europe on the UN security council west of the River Bug.
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
About 20% of East Germany’s population has fled by the time the wall went up. I seem to recall the rate was up to over 300k per annum by the Summer of 1961 so given a population of about 16M and one assumes a working population of about half that the place was disappearing before their very eyes, despite being the workers’ paradise. So Ulbricht built a wall and had anyone crossing it shot. It was later bolstered by anti personnel mines for good measure.
Of course Hungary, and Czechoslovakia were suppressed at the point of a gun in 56 and 68. Romania had every typewriter registered and each household was allowed a dazzling 40w bulb to light the nights. Poland was put under martial law in 81 for getting the wrong idea too. There were of course no free elections and anyone who spoke out, like Havel for instance, ended up in the slammer or worse.
Yet Roger admires the hippy idealism of Corbyn. Words really fail me.
OTOH the West was quite happy to allow the suppression of democracy in Spain and Portugal until the 1970s, in Greece from 1967-74 and in Turkey to prevent more democratically-supported left-wing parties and Governments being formed.
Wasn't there also covert intervention in Italy to keep the Communists out of Government there as well?
Elsewhere in the world, both East AND West propped up their share of murderous tyrants such as Marcos, Mobutu and Castro to name but three. Democracy was crushed underfoot in the name of keeping the other side out of power.
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
It is like a film script for very dark overblown satire has come to life. An obsessive half mad idiot is propelled to the leadership of a major party by chance events. People are blind to the reality and project many contradictory visions on to him. Hopefully the second half where he becomes PM remains on the cutting room floor.
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
No it’s not it’s seriously nuts.
The Warsaw Pact was the military arm of a system that walled people in and shot them if they tried to leave. NATO was a spectacularly successful defence against that.
You can be as hippy dippy as you like, it doesn’t excuse it.
"Nonsense! The Berlin Wall was built by NATO!!!"
Lol!
About 20% of East Germany’s population has fled by the time the wall went up. I seem to recall the rate was up to over 300k per annum by the Summer of 1961 so given a population of about 16M and one assumes a working population of about half that the place was disappearing before their very eyes, despite being the workers’ paradise. So Ulbricht built a wall and had anyone crossing it shot. It was later bolstered by anti personnel mines for good measure.
Of course Hungary, and Czechoslovakia were suppressed at the point of a gun in 56 and 68. Romania had every typewriter registered and each household was allowed a dazzling 40w bulb to light the nights. Poland was put under martial law in 81 for getting the wrong idea too. There were of course no free elections and anyone who spoke out, like Havel for instance, ended up in the slammer or worse.
Yet Roger admires the hippy idealism of Corbyn. Words really fail me.
Yes, yes, and yes. BUT. Why does Der Linke attract such support in what was the DDR. Russia has a thriving Communist Party. Just as an example the Communists in the Czech Republic achieved their worst result in the last elections... almost 8%.
Plenty of people seemingly willing to get out the bunting, put the champagne on ice and stand ready to adore the Prime Minister according to the Mail.
Yes, sterling has soared an incredible two cents against the dollar and the euro.
Barnier has reportedly said we will get a deal unlike that offered to any country - well, that can mean anything but one thing it doesn't seem to mean is the SM for goods which drives a coach and horses through the Chequers Agreement. We may get something like an FTA but it won't be SM membership or anything like it so perhaps one cheer rather than three and of course there's a lot of other detail even at this late stage.
Clearly, no one in the EU wants the UK to crash out without a deal on 29/3/19 (and I doubt the majority do here either) so "something" is being cobbled together with the can kicked down the road again for the transition period but we have an FTA with Lesotho (apparently) so there's nothing to worry about.
To be honest, Chequers was never going to fly. As almost every Leaver on here suggested at the time....
I suspect most of it was cleared with the EU27 in advance actually.
What we’re really debating is how big the gap is between rhetoric and reality.
When? Last week? last yea?. There’s no way I’d support that sort of language but I cringe a bit when I recall some of my remarks in student days.
60 years ago!
In 2013 and there is video.
Corbyn leaves me speechless and disgusted and is not fit to lead a major UK party sadly
Can anyone image how long TM would last if she behaved this way
Dear god, what are we coming to? JC on one side, BJ on the other. At least he’s not Leader.
Come on OKC. BJ is not remotely as malign as Corbyn
This is why the campaign against Corbyn has been run, sure Boris dog whistles against Muslims but Corbyn opposes the occupation of the Palestinians so he must be a massive racist, I can now morally vote for the person with the racist dog whistling campaign. The long held dreams of the Sun and the Daily Mail coming to fruition.
Rubbish - one may not agree with all of it, but Corbyn made many valid points.
NATO is obsolescent. A common EU armed force should be created to replace it for the defence of Europe, from Brest to Brest, in tandem with a common EU foreign policy. The EU should be the sole representative of Europe on the UN security council west of the River Bug.
Got to agree with Mr DD. Many valid points.
Intelligent thought about the best way of protecting Western Europe in the future is not going to come from someone who rewrites history, does not accept the threat which the Soviet Union was to the West and which Russia under Putin presents now.
Rubbish - one may not agree with all of it, but Corbyn made many valid points.
NATO is obsolescent. A common EU armed force should be created to replace it for the defence of Europe, from Brest to Brest, in tandem with a common EU foreign policy. The EU should be the sole representative of Europe on the UN security council west of the River Bug.
This may have passed you by (much like the actual history of the second half of the 20th century) but we are about to leave the EU. So they will not be a part of our defence. Which is just as well because nearly all their armed forces are one step up from a joke.
Corbyn ‘s rewriting of history would be laughable if he was not a contender for PM.
When? Last week? last yea?. There’s no way I’d support that sort of language but I cringe a bit when I recall some of my remarks in student days.
60 years ago!
In 2013 and there is video.
Corbyn leaves me speechless and disgusted and is not fit to lead a major UK party sadly
Can anyone image how long TM would last if she behaved this way
Dear god, what are we coming to? JC on one side, BJ on the other. At least he’s not Leader.
Come on OKC. BJ is not remotely as malign as Corbyn
I suspect, once in power, he would be worse. He is, after all, probably brighter.
Nothing Boris could possibly do would compare to the damage that would be inflicted by those who think Venezuela is a model to emulate.
Corbyn and those around him are revolutionary socialist cuckoos in a party of democratic socialists and social democrats. They have no commitment to democracy or freedom of the press.
Boris love him or loathe him is still the most charismatic election winner in the Commons
If he buried the hatchet with Gove they could be quite a formidable duo.
Not impossible depending on whether an acceptable Deal is negotiated or not
Boris will claim that the deal is a betrayal, regardless of content. To do otherwise would make his resignation look stupid. Gove will support the deal, almost regardless of content. To do otherwise would make his decision to remain in the cabinet look ridiculous. I really don’t see how they end up on the same side, even if you ignore their history.
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
No it’s not it’s seriously nuts.
The Warsaw Pact was the military arm of a system that walled people in and shot them if they tried to leave. NATO was a spectacularly successful defence against that.
You can be as hippy dippy as you like, it doesn’t excuse it.
"Nonsense! The Berlin Wall was built by NATO!!!"
Lol!
About 20% of East Germany’s population has fled by the time the wall went up. I seem to recall the rate was up to over 300k per annum by the Summer of 1961 so given a population of about 16M and one assumes a working population of about half that the place was disappearing before their very eyes, despite being the workers’ paradise. So Ulbricht built a wall and had anyone crossing it shot. It was later bolstered by anti personnel mines for good measure.
Of course Hungary, and Czechoslovakia were suppressed at the point of a gun in 56 and 68. Romania had every typewriter registered and each household was allowed a dazzling 40w bulb to light the nights. Poland was put under martial law in 81 for getting the wrong idea too. There were of course no free elections and anyone who spoke out, like Havel for instance, ended up in the slammer or worse.
Yet Roger admires the hippy idealism of Corbyn. Words really fail me.
Yes, yes, and yes. BUT. Why does Der Linke attract such support in what was the DDR. Russia has a thriving Communist Party. Just as an example the Communists in the Czech Republic achieved their worst result in the last elections... almost 8%.
It is just astonishing that they do attract this support (the 8% who were the elite in the old system? Secret policeman’s nostalgia? God knows. Point is it’s not the “99%” it used to be declared to be is it? And if you really don’t like the current set up nobody tries to fragment you with an anti personnel mine or riddle you with a magazine from an AK47 do they? That’s kind of fundamental.
Of course Corbyn wouldn’t have lasted five minutes in the Soviet block. Straight off to the gulag with him I’m sure for some sort of party impurity!
When I went to Berlin, I quite enjoyed reading the old newspaper reports from East Germany. It seems they and the Russians built the wall, to prevent the jealous Westerners trying to cross into the Socialist paradise that was East Germany. The guards were forced to shoot them in the back because they must have been running backwards towards them.
When I went to Berlin, I quite enjoyed reading the old newspaper reports from East Germany. It seems they and the Russians built the wall, to prevent the jealous Westerners trying to cross into the Socialist paradise that was East Germany. The guards were forced to shoot them in the back because they must have been running backwards towards them.
I'm sure Jezza still holds to that version.
I am sure he learned all about it on the motorcycle trip with Ms Abbott.
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
It’s as if he (and you) are unaware of the gulags, the repressions, the way dissidents were locked up in mental hospitals, the genocide perpetrated on the Ukrainian people, the 1953 uprising by East Germany, the show trials in the Warsaw pact countries, the killings and forced suicides, the Berlin Wall, the shooting of those who wanted to escape their prison, the 1956 Hungarian uprising, the multiple Polish rebellions, the 1968 uprising in Czechoslovakia and so on and so forth. It’s as if he’s wholly unaware of - or ignores - the reality of life in the Soviet Union in the years before 1948 and its deliberate undermining of any attempt to create a normal democratic society in the countries liberated from Nazism. Those countries exchanged one brutal totalitarian regime for another. Their liberation did not come until 1989.
There is nothing idealistic about defending the vile regime which was the Soviet Union.
We're talking then about a time after 1948 when lynchings were a routine part of American life. Where blacks and whites couldn't travel on the same bus or go to the same schools....where genocides in Rwanda and the Congo weren't even stopped. Where wars of unimaginable brutality between Iraq and Iran killed hundreds of thousands. Where apartheid in South Africa and Rhodesia continued unchecked. Where American/UK policy created a bloodbath in Iraq and Libya. Where the war in Syria had more in common with the brutalities of the first world war than anything that happened in Eastern Europe post '48.....
The picture painted by Corbyn rings rather more true than your rather partial anglocentric view of recent history.
Boris love him or loathe him is still the most charismatic election winner in the Commons
If he buried the hatchet with Gove they could be quite a formidable duo.
Not impossible depending on whether an acceptable Deal is negotiated or not
Boris will claim that the deal is a betrayal, regardless of content. To do otherwise would make his resignation look stupid. Gove will support the deal, almost regardless of content. To do otherwise would make his decision to remain in the cabinet look ridiculous. I really don’t see how they end up on the same side, even if you ignore their history.
Gove's wife will ensure be advances his prospects however Brexit turns out
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
It’s as if he (and you) are unaware of the gulags, the repressions, the way dissidents were locked up in mental hospitals, the genocide perpetrated on the Ukrainian people, the 1953 uprising by East Germany, the show trials in the Warsaw pact countries, the killings and forced suicides, the Berlin Wall, the shooting of those who wanted to escape their prison, the 1956 Hungarian uprising, the multiple Polish rebellions, the 1968 uprising in Czechoslovakia and so on and so forth. It’s as if he’s wholly unaware of - or ignores - the reality of life in the Soviet Union in the years before 1948 and its deliberate undermining of any attempt to create a normal democratic society in the countries liberated from Nazism. Those countries exchanged one brutal totalitarian regime for another. Their liberation did not come until 1989.
There is nothing idealistic about defending the vile regime which was the Soviet Union.
We're talking then about a time after 1948 when lynchings were a routine part of American life. Where blacks and whites couldn't travel on the same bus or go to the same schools....where genocides in Rwanda and the Congo weren't even stopped. Where wars of unimaginable brutality between Iraq and Iran killed hundreds of thousands. Where apartheid in South Africa and Rhodesia continued unchecked. Where American/UK policy created a bloodbath in Iraq and Libya. Where the war in Syria had more in common with the brutalities of the first world war than anything that happened in Eastern Europe post '48.....
The picture painted by Corbyn rings rather more true than your rather partial anglocentric view of recent history.
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
No it’s not it’s seriously nuts.
The Warsaw Pact was the military arm of a system that walled people in and shot them if they tried to leave. NATO was a spectacularly successful defence against that.
You can be as hippy dippy as you like, it doesn’t excuse it.
"Nonsense! The Berlin Wall was built by NATO!!!"
Lol!
Of course Hungary, and Czechoslovakia were suppressed at the point of a gun in 56 and 68. Romania had every typewriter registered and each household was allowed a dazzling 40w bulb to light the nights. Poland was put under martial law in 81 for getting the wrong idea too. There were of course no free elections and anyone who spoke out, like Havel for instance, ended up in the slammer or worse.
Yet Roger admires the hippy idealism of Corbyn. Words really fail me.
Yes, yes, and yes. BUT. Why does Der Linke attract such support in what was the DDR. Russia has a thriving Communist Party. Just as an example the Communists in the Czech Republic achieved their worst result in the last elections... almost 8%.
It is just astonishing that they do attract this support (the 8% who were the elite in the old system? Secret policeman’s nostalgia? God knows. Point is it’s not the “99%” it used to be declared to be is it? And if you really don’t like the current set up nobody tries to fragment you with an anti personnel mine or riddle you with a magazine from an AK47 do they? That’s kind of fundamental.
Of course Corbyn wouldn’t have lasted five minutes in the Soviet block. Straight off to the gulag with him I’m sure for some sort of party impurity!
While I agree with your last para, AIUI quite a lot of people recall life in the DDR (especially) as better than now, especially as regards employment and social services.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
No it’s not it’s seriously nuts.
The Warsaw Pact was the military arm of a system that walled people in and shot them if they tried to leave. NATO was a spectacularly successful defence against that.
You can be as hippy dippy as you like, it doesn’t excuse it.
"Nonsense! The Berlin Wall was built by NATO!!!"
Lol!
Of course Hungary, and Czechoslovakia were suppressed at the point of a gun in 56 and 68. Romania had every typewriter registered and each household was allowed a dazzling 40w bulb to light the nights. Poland was put under martial law in 81 for getting the wrong idea too. There were of course no free elections and anyone who spoke out, like Havel for instance, ended up in the slammer or worse.
Yet Roger admires the hippy idealism of Corbyn. Words really fail me.
Yes, yes, and yes. BUT. Why does Der Linke attract such support in what was the DDR. Russia has a thriving Communist Party. Just as an example the Communists in the Czech Republic achieved their worst result in the last elections... almost 8%.
It is just astonishing that they do attract this support (the 8% who were the elite in the old system? Secret policeman’s nostalgia? God knows. Point is it’s not the “99%” it used to be declared to be is it? And if you really don’t like the current set up nobody tries to fragment you with an anti personnel mine or riddle you with a magazine from an AK47 do they? That’s kind of fundamental.
Of course Corbyn wouldn’t have lasted five minutes in the Soviet block. Straight off to the gulag with him I’m sure for some sort of party impurity!
While I agree with your last para, AIUI quite a lot of people recall life in the DDR (especially) as better than now, especially as regards employment and social services.
I've met people from the former Soviet Union and the former Yugoslavia who missed what they felt was a genuine sense of internationalism between the various peoples of those countries ("it didn't matter if you were Russian, Georgian or Kazakh, we were all Soviet citizens"). Mind you those people were respectively Ukrainian and Serb so I guess they were seeing it from the privileged end.
Boris love him or loathe him is still the most charismatic election winner in the Commons
If he buried the hatchet with Gove they could be quite a formidable duo.
Not impossible depending on whether an acceptable Deal is negotiated or not
Boris will claim that the deal is a betrayal, regardless of content. To do otherwise would make his resignation look stupid. Gove will support the deal, almost regardless of content. To do otherwise would make his decision to remain in the cabinet look ridiculous. I really don’t see how they end up on the same side, even if you ignore their history.
Gove's wife will ensure be advances his prospects however Brexit turns out
When? Last week? last yea?. There’s no way I’d support that sort of language but I cringe a bit when I recall some of my remarks in student days.
60 years ago!
In 2013 and there is video.
Corbyn leaves me speechless and disgusted and is not fit to lead a major UK party sadly
Can anyone image how long TM would last if she behaved this way
Dear god, what are we coming to? JC on one side, BJ on the other. At least he’s not Leader.
Come on OKC. BJ is not remotely as malign as Corbyn
An extraordinary claim! He's a proven criminal. I can't think of a more malign politician around today than BJ. Corbyn by contrast might not be a competent leader but I've never thought him malign.
When? Last week? last yea?. There’s no way I’d support that sort of language but I cringe a bit when I recall some of my remarks in student days.
60 years ago!
In 2013 and there is video.
Corbyn leaves me speechless and disgusted and is not fit to lead a major UK party sadly
Can anyone image how long TM would last if she behaved this way
Dear god, what are we coming to? JC on one side, BJ on the other. At least he’s not Leader.
Come on OKC. BJ is not remotely as malign as Corbyn
An extraordinary claim! He's a proven criminal. I can't think of a more malign politician around today than BJ. Corbyn by contrast might not be a competent leader but I've never thought him malign.
Steady on... he's been convicted in a court of law?
When? Last week? last yea?. There’s no way I’d support that sort of language but I cringe a bit when I recall some of my remarks in student days.
60 years ago!
In 2013 and there is video.
Corbyn leaves me speechless and disgusted and is not fit to lead a major UK party sadly
Can anyone image how long TM would last if she behaved this way
Dear god, what are we coming to? JC on one side, BJ on the other. At least he’s not Leader.
Come on OKC. BJ is not remotely as malign as Corbyn
An extraordinary claim! He's a proven criminal. I can't think of a more malign politician around today than BJ. Corbyn by contrast might not be a competent leader but I've never thought him malign.
Steady on... he's been convicted in a court of law?
When? Last week? last yea?. There’s no way I’d support that sort of language but I cringe a bit when I recall some of my remarks in student days.
60 years ago!
In 2013 and there is video.
Corbyn leaves me speechless and disgusted and is not fit to lead a major UK party sadly
Can anyone image how long TM would last if she behaved this way
Dear god, what are we coming to? JC on one side, BJ on the other. At least he’s not Leader.
Come on OKC. BJ is not remotely as malign as Corbyn
An extraordinary claim! He's a proven criminal. I can't think of a more malign politician around today than BJ. Corbyn by contrast might not be a competent leader but I've never thought him malign.
Steady on... he's been convicted in a court of law?
Boris love him or loathe him is still the most charismatic election winner in the Commons
If he buried the hatchet with Gove they could be quite a formidable duo.
Not impossible depending on whether an acceptable Deal is negotiated or not
Boris will claim that the deal is a betrayal, regardless of content. To do otherwise would make his resignation look stupid. Gove will support the deal, almost regardless of content. To do otherwise would make his decision to remain in the cabinet look ridiculous. I really don’t see how they end up on the same side, even if you ignore their history.
No, Boris will say his resignation was all part of a co-ordinated plot to put pressure on Brussels. A ratcheting up of pressure, to reinforce that the PM could offer Chequers Brexit - but not an inch more.
And, by Jove, it worked! Now we are all happily rowing in behind the Brexit agreement, intent on delivering a propserous new Britain outside the clutches of the Eurocrats, but with trade still going on without a cliff edge, hospitals still functioning with medicines, planes still flying between the UK and European destinations.... By God, it's the very best of Brexits - and a great day to be alive!
Now, Theresa, about you agreeing to step down next week....
Good for them. Delusional fools, but good for them.
Their fellow citizens, who disagreed, had no means of peacefully removing their Govt, expressing disapproval, or even leaving without risking personal physical harm or death.
I loathe the kind of apologist moral equivalence crap spouted by fools like Corbyn and even our own misguided Roger.
I am not sure that stupid really does him justice. It's much more fundamental than that.
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
It is like a film script for very dark overblown satire has come to life. An obsessive half mad idiot is propelled to the leadership of a major party by chance events. People are blind to the reality and project many contradictory visions on to him. Hopefully the second half where he becomes PM remains on the cutting room floor.
I see that for (some) PB Tories the frog of a Boris leadership is just about boiled. Not the first time we'll have had a nasty piece of work for PM I suppose.
"a lot of people recall life in the DDR (especially) as better than now, especially as regards employment and social services."
I'm not surprised. It's called nostalgia. I feel a reverse Four Yorkshiremen sketch coming.
The old Communists in Die Linke do poll well in the East. There is some genuine nostalgia.
There has always been a bit of radical chic assosciated with the Communists, whether the Russian revolutionaries, the Cubans, Che Guevara, or the Communards. Usually best appreciated at a distance, but there nevertheless, in a way that Fascism rarely appeals outside its own nation.
Islamism is the modern equivalent for a sector of society looking for an alternative to the crass commercialism and decadance of modern consumer society. It is a coherent alternative philosophy and idealistic alternative way to structure the world.
I see the appeal myself, though mine is a Christian millenialism.
Rubbish - one may not agree with all of it, but Corbyn made many valid points.
NATO is obsolescent. A common EU armed force should be created to replace it for the defence of Europe, from Brest to Brest, in tandem with a common EU foreign policy. The EU should be the sole representative of Europe on the UN security council west of the River Bug.
Beware the slithy toves.
Corbyn simply doesn't make valid points. He's not about that. He may of course do so accidentally though.
OT, My Greek colleagues really rate the current PAOK side to progress to the knockout stages of the CL. They have tied Benfica away 1:1 and are 2.18 to go through on BF.
OT, My Greek colleagues really rate the current PAOK side to progress to the knockout stages of the CL. They have tied Benfica away 1:1 and are 2.18 to go through on BF.
I have put a tenner on.
Update: PAOK have scored so the value has gone. Still 1.45 though, with a 2:1 aggregate and away goal.
OT, My Greek colleagues really rate the current PAOK side to progress to the knockout stages of the CL. They have tied Benfica away 1:1 and are 2.18 to go through on BF.
I have put a tenner on.
Update: PAOK have scored so the value has gone. Still 1.45 though, with a 2:1 aggregate and away goal.
Though of course PAOK can't go through on the away goal rule now.
"a lot of people recall life in the DDR (especially) as better than now, especially as regards employment and social services."
I'm not surprised. It's called nostalgia. I feel a reverse Four Yorkshiremen sketch coming.
The old Communists in Die Linke do poll well in the East. There is some genuine nostalgia.
There has always been a bit of radical chic assosciated with the Communists, whether the Russian revolutionaries, the Cubans, Che Guevara, or the Communards. Usually best appreciated at a distance, but there nevertheless, in a way that Fascism rarely appeals outside its own nation.
Islamism is the modern equivalent for a sector of society looking for an alternative to the crass commercialism and decadance of modern consumer society. It is a coherent alternative philosophy and idealistic alternative way to structure the world.
I see the appeal myself, though mine is a Christian millenialism.
Any ideology is coherent to those who believe it......
I think Scientology is quite plausible....well it's more plausible than lots of other stuff out there like transubstantiation......when you read the stuff on parallels universes, string theory and quantum physics...wow..that shit is really LSD induced bonkers....
Comments
But if they get more votes than the Social Democrat alliance, they'll form a minority government.
Next week?
Next month?
Before the EU summit on 18/19 October?
Before a special EU summit in November, as Liddington moots?
By Christmas?
Before 29/3/19?
If May’s position truly is NIAUEIA, none of those is feasible and it’s No Deal.
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/shortcuts/2018/aug/29/a-yearning-for-optimism-why-people-are-sharing-richard-curtiss-reflection-on-goodness
I like the idealism. He's not a great speaker but I admire his inner hippy. I can see his appeal the young. It's refreshing that someone's still making those arguments
The Warsaw Pact was the military arm of a system that walled people in and shot them if they tried to leave. NATO was a spectacularly successful defence against that.
You can be as hippy dippy as you like, it doesn’t excuse it.
Plenty of people seemingly willing to get out the bunting, put the champagne on ice and stand ready to adore the Prime Minister according to the Mail.
Yes, sterling has soared an incredible two cents against the dollar and the euro.
Barnier has reportedly said we will get a deal unlike that offered to any country - well, that can mean anything but one thing it doesn't seem to mean is the SM for goods which drives a coach and horses through the Chequers Agreement. We may get something like an FTA but it won't be SM membership or anything like it so perhaps one cheer rather than three and of course there's a lot of other detail even at this late stage.
Clearly, no one in the EU wants the UK to crash out without a deal on 29/3/19 (and I doubt the majority do here either) so "something" is being cobbled together with the can kicked down the road again for the transition period but we have an FTA with Lesotho (apparently) so there's nothing to worry about.
https://twitter.com/SunPolitics/status/1034853232214978560
How can decent labour supporters allow this. They should unite and declare 'not in my name' and take dramatic action and isolate Corbyn and his cabal
60 years ago!
Corbyn leaves me speechless and disgusted and is not fit to lead a major UK party sadly
Can anyone image how long TM would last if she behaved this way
There is nothing idealistic about defending the vile regime which was the Soviet Union.
NATO is obsolescent. A common EU armed force should be created to replace it for the defence of Europe, from Brest to Brest, in tandem with a common EU foreign policy. The EU should be the sole representative of Europe on the UN security council west of the River Bug.
About 20% of East Germany’s population has fled by the time the wall went up. I seem to recall the rate was up to over 300k per annum by the Summer of 1961 so given a population of about 16M and one assumes a working population of about half that the place was disappearing before their very eyes, despite being the workers’ paradise. So Ulbricht built a wall and had anyone crossing it shot. It was later bolstered by anti personnel mines for good measure.
Of course Hungary, and Czechoslovakia were suppressed at the point of a gun in 56 and 68. Romania had every typewriter registered and each household was allowed a dazzling 40w bulb to light the nights. Poland was put under martial law in 81 for getting the wrong idea too. There were of course no free elections and anyone who spoke out, like Havel for instance, ended up in the slammer or worse.
Yet Roger admires the hippy idealism of Corbyn. Words really fail me.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/29/occupation-boardgame-found-in-jersey-attic-pokes-fun-at-nazis
Verifiable facts seem a little thin on the ground. For instance I'd be interested to know who the 'controversial pro-Palestinian group with links to the far right' was.
Also 'while Mr Corbyn ordered her out of the room' immediately followed by 'The Labour leader - then a backbench MP - said: "Can you all quietly leave the room please?"' seems somewhat at odds.
But it seems nothing can remove Jeremy.
Wasn't there also covert intervention in Italy to keep the Communists out of Government there as well?
Elsewhere in the world, both East AND West propped up their share of murderous tyrants such as Marcos, Mobutu and Castro to name but three. Democracy was crushed underfoot in the name of keeping the other side out of power.
What we’re really debating is how big the gap is between rhetoric and reality.
I think it’s rather larger than advertised.
Corbyn ‘s rewriting of history would be laughable if he was not a contender for PM.
Corbyn and those around him are revolutionary socialist cuckoos in a party of democratic socialists and social democrats. They have no commitment to democracy or freedom of the press.
I will have no problem with labour if they rid themselves of Corbyn and his cabal
Of course Corbyn wouldn’t have lasted five minutes in the Soviet block. Straight off to the gulag with him I’m sure for some sort of party impurity!
I'm sure Jezza still holds to that version.
The picture painted by Corbyn rings rather more true than your rather partial anglocentric view of recent history.
There’s a film on Youtube: Mt DDR Tee shirt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmILB8tmm00
"a lot of people recall life in the DDR (especially) as better than now, especially as regards employment and social services."
I'm not surprised. It's called nostalgia. I feel a reverse Four Yorkshiremen sketch coming.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/3559801/How-Boris-Johnson-became-a-war-criminal.html
And, by Jove, it worked! Now we are all happily rowing in behind the Brexit agreement, intent on delivering a propserous new Britain outside the clutches of the Eurocrats, but with trade still going on without a cliff edge, hospitals still functioning with medicines, planes still flying between the UK and European destinations.... By God, it's the very best of Brexits - and a great day to be alive!
Now, Theresa, about you agreeing to step down next week....
Mr Cole
Good for them. Delusional fools, but good for them.
Their fellow citizens, who disagreed, had no means of peacefully removing their Govt, expressing disapproval, or even leaving without risking personal physical harm or death.
I loathe the kind of apologist moral equivalence crap spouted by fools like Corbyn and even our own misguided Roger.
That's an amazing price. Either in UKIP-land or Labour-land, or possibly any other land there's something afoot.
There has always been a bit of radical chic assosciated with the Communists, whether the Russian revolutionaries, the Cubans, Che Guevara, or the Communards. Usually best appreciated at a distance, but there nevertheless, in a way that Fascism rarely appeals outside its own nation.
Islamism is the modern equivalent for a sector of society looking for an alternative to the crass commercialism and decadance of modern consumer society. It is a coherent alternative philosophy and idealistic alternative way to structure the world.
I see the appeal myself, though mine is a Christian millenialism.
Corbyn simply doesn't make valid points. He's not about that. He may of course do so accidentally though.
I have put a tenner on.
EDIT: And Benfica have squared it up.
I think Scientology is quite plausible....well it's more plausible than lots of other stuff out there like transubstantiation......when you read the stuff on parallels universes, string theory and quantum physics...wow..that shit is really LSD induced bonkers....