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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » BoJo’ s controversial burka comments don’t seem to have hurt him in the TMay successor betting

With TMay herself now joining those attacking BoJo for his Burka comments the big danger he faces is not being able to get enough fellow CON MPs to support him in the first rounds of voting to get on the ballot.

Read the full story here

Sean_F

They would aid him.

MarqueeMark

I said at the time that a significant majority of voters would support his view: he doesn't like the face coverings, but wouldn't legislate to prevent them. Unlike the supposedly enlightened Europeans, who are doing just that.

Foxy

Sean_F said:

They would aid him.

Probably.

It is a great fat dead cat on the Brexit table, and shifts the discussion to non EU immigration, which to the average punter matters a lot more than EU migration.

Cynical and divisive, but quite possibly popular.

kle4

Being attention seeking is probably showing good judgement, regrettably. He has an advantage because everyone talks about him and a lot have an opinion about him. I don't like him, at all, regardless of this incident, but he does have a great shot - yes the MPs are key, but while I disagree with HYFUD that they will definitely see him through the last two because he is the best chance of keeping their seats, I think he has a good chance of getting enough to do so.

Sean_F

MarqueeMark said:

I said at the time that a significant majority of voters would support his view: he doesn't like the face coverings, but wouldn't legislate to prevent them. Unlike the supposedly enlightened Europeans, who are doing just that.

I don't doubt that most voters detest the burka. It is detestable.

But, Boris took a swipe at people that was unreasonable (I hate to be in the position of bleeding hearted liberal)

HYUFD

57% of all voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll and 66% of Tory voters wanted to ban it.


https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/31/majority-public-backs-burka-ban/

I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

notme

HYUFD said:

57 of voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll.

I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

Boris didn’t want to,ban them. He wrote against it.

AlastairMeeks

His odds should be shortening. His strategy is clear and there are enough insane Conservatives for it to succeed.

HYUFD

notme said:

HYUFD said:

57 of voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll.

I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

Boris didn’t want to,ban them. He wrote against it.

He can present himself as a relative liberal compared to the alternative then

kle4

notme said:

HYUFD said:

57 of voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll.

I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

Boris didn’t want to,ban them. He wrote against it.

Am I being too snobbish to the public to think that enough people will see 'Boris...Burqa...Controversy' and assume he wants to ban it, and approve?

Boris, for me, is a bit like Corbyn. I do see elements about him which I can see why people like him, but I do not understand why so many do, and why he gets as much of a pass about either certain views that would not be acceptable in others, or expressing said views in a way others would not be able to get away with.

I'm with those thinking his odds should be shortening - I think his behaviour before he quit was pretty lousy, and his explanation of his resignation was lame, and he's so obvious and cynical in his actions now...but it could well work.

Others need to step up, hopefully in better ways.

Sean_F

HYUFD said:

notme said:

HYUFD said:

57 of voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll.

I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

Boris didn’t want to,ban them. He wrote against it.

He can present himself as a relative liberal compared to the alternative then

And that is clever.

AlastairMeeks said:

His odds should be shortening. His strategy is clear and there are enough insane Conservatives for it to succeed.

I agree that his odds should be shortening.

BannedOnTheRun

Have ultra right gangs ever burqa'd up?

Sean_F

kle4 said:

notme said:

HYUFD said:

57 of voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll.

I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

Boris didn’t want to,ban them. He wrote against it.

Am I being too snobbish to the public to think that enough people will see 'Boris...Burqa...Controversy' and assume he wants to ban it, and approve?

Boris, for me, is a bit like Corbyn. I do see elements about him which I can see why people like him, but I do not understand why so many do, and why he gets as much of a pass about either certain views that would not be acceptable in others, or expressing said views in a way others would not be able to get away with.

I don't know. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could spit. If he saw an electoral advantage to being an enthusiastic supporter of the Burka, he would go for it.

But, others see him differently.

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

57% of all voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll and 66% of Tory voters wanted to ban it.


https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/31/majority-public-backs-burka-ban/

I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

I do not think they will only because I suspect the voters thought he was calling for a ban, like some EU countries already have

TOPPING

Whenever I consider the burka it is too easy to fall into the populist trap and echo Boris' comments.

But where he is wrong, very wrong, is that there are some women who for whatever reason want to wear it. And he had been nasty and bullying in insulting them.

That is rude and horrible to those women who have done nothing other than choose a mode of clothing.

In Britain.

Big_G_NorthWales

AlastairMeeks said:

His odds should be shortening. His strategy is clear and there are enough insane Conservatives for it to succeed.

Only if he gets past his fellow mps

Sunil_Prasannan

TOPPING said:

Whenever I consider the burka it is too easy to fall into the populist trap and echo Boris' comments.

But where he is wrong, very wrong, is that there are some women who for whatever reason want to wear it. And he had been nasty and bullying in insulting them.

That is rude and horrible to those women who have done nothing other than choose a mode of clothing.

In Britain.

Well, they seem to forget the saying of Grand Ayatollah Nudistani:
"It is the Will of Allah (SWT) that we are all born stark raving naked!"

IanB2

Too early to say

Toms

A relevant site and an alternative:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/07/us/elections/results-ohio-special-house-election-district-12.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPGb4STRfKw

Sunil_Prasannan

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

Sunil_Prasannan

FPT

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

What do you mean "except Armagh"? Armagh is majority Catholic.

dixiedean

What exactly did Boris do as FS to suggest he would make a suitable PM?

Sunil_Prasannan

FPT

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Easy.

Glenavy ward connects West Belfast to Lough Neagh. You can see these on my sectarian headcount interesting maps based on the 2001 Census.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm

AlastairMeeks

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AlastairMeeks said:

His odds should be shortening. His strategy is clear and there are enough insane Conservatives for it to succeed.

Only if he gets past his fellow mps

85 should be enough when the time comes. There are probably enough for that.

IanB2

ConHome is strangely quiet on the matter

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1026935953338892288

HYUFD

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

Big_G_NorthWales

dixiedean said:

What exactly did Boris do as FS to suggest he would make a suitable PM?

Nothing at all - indeed showed why he should not - I do not want my PM telling Airbus to FO, and acting irresponsibly the day he resigned , to mention a few reasons

Sunil_Prasannan

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Sunil_Prasannan

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

HYUFD

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war.

Up to 3 million are estimated to have died even in the Bangladesh Liberation War

BannedOnTheRun

If Boris does become PM I'll be rather impressed by the comeback.

Benpointer

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Easy.

Glenavy ward connects West Belfast to Lough Neagh. You can see these on my sectarian headcount interesting maps based on the 2001 Census.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm

Which one is Glenavy ward?

Sunil_Prasannan

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

Sunil_Prasannan

Benpointer said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Easy.

Glenavy ward connects West Belfast to Lough Neagh. You can see these on my sectarian headcount interesting maps based on the 2001 Census.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm

Which one is Glenavy ward?

Light green block connecting the Lough to the dark green West Belfast wards.

HYUFD

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

Alistair

So, I BoJo going to go for it in October then?

I had been assuming that whoever wanted ot hbe next was going to wait for BINO to happen next year then step in with a hearty "Thank You" to May for a hard job well done but now we needed a steely Leaver to navigate us through the choppy waters of BINO.

IanB2

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

Not even a YouGov poll to support that?

Sunil_Prasannan

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

Source please? You seem to care not a jot about the million or so who died because of your botched Partition.

HYUFD

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

Not even a YouGov poll to support that?

Up to 3 million died in the Bangladesh Liberation War alone against Pakistan, a Hindu v Muslim civil war in India would have seen many more deaths than that

kle4

Alistair said:

So, I BoJo going to go for it in October then?

I had been assuming that whoever wanted ot hbe next was going to wait for BINO to happen next year then step in with a hearty "Thank You" to May for a hard job well done but now we needed a steely Leaver to navigate us through the choppy waters of BINO.

I'd thought so too (although with more a gritted teeth thank you), but perhaps seeing the scale of the disapproval of Chequers (let alone the watered down Chequers which is the best May could hope for) he is seeing his chance to move earlier, before anyone else can assert themselves, and where he can capitalise on people who want no deal to rally to him, but also try to get the vast numbers who theoretically want a deal, but not this one (even though there is no time to negotiate something drastically different).

Charles

Benpointer said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Easy.

Glenavy ward connects West Belfast to Lough Neagh. You can see these on my sectarian headcount interesting maps based on the 2001 Census.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm

Which one is Glenavy ward?

FPT

I stopped listening to Ken L years ago...

Charles

Benpointer said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Easy.

Glenavy ward connects West Belfast to Lough Neagh. You can see these on my sectarian headcount interesting maps based on the 2001 Census.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm

Which one is Glenavy ward?

FPT

I stopped listening to Ken L years ago...

HYUFD

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

Source please? You seem to care not a jot about the million or so who died because of your botched Partition.

Without Partition far more would have died as Muslims in India went to war against the Hindu majority Indian government to fight for their own state

Benpointer

Charles said:

Benpointer said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Easy.

Glenavy ward connects West Belfast to Lough Neagh. You can see these on my sectarian headcount interesting maps based on the 2001 Census.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm

Which one is Glenavy ward?

FPT

I stopped listening to Ken L years ago...

Very wise

Benpointer

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

How can that be an actual 'fact' ?

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/alstewitn/status/1026939378248167424

Sunil_Prasannan

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

Not even a YouGov poll to support that?

Up to 3 million died in the Bangladesh Liberation War alone against Pakistan

The Bangladesh Liberation War was Muslim against Muslim (for the most part). India only directly intervened a fortnight before the Pakistani collapse in Dhaka.

HYUFD

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

How can that be an actual 'fact' ?

See the Bangladesh Liberation War where up to 3 million died.

Partition was only undertaken to avoid an inevitable Indian Civil War

HYUFD

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

Not even a YouGov poll to support that?

Up to 3 million died in the Bangladesh Liberation War alone against Pakistan

The Bangladesh Liberation War was Muslim against Muslim (for the most part). India only directly intervened a fortnight before the Pakistani collapse in Dhaka.

West Pakistani v Bengali after the Pakistani military junta launched Operation Searchlight against Bengali nationalists and intellectuals

Sunil_Prasannan

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

Source please? You seem to care not a jot about the million or so who died because of your botched Partition.

Without Partition far more would have died as Muslims in India went to war against the Hindu majority Indian government to fight for their own state

No polling data to back that up?

Benpointer

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

How can that be an actual 'fact' ?

See the Bangladesh Liberation War where up to 3 million died.

Partition was only undertaken to avoid an inevitable Indian Civil War

At best you might argue 'The evidence indicates...', not 'The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition'.

kle4

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

How can that be an actual 'fact' ?

See the Bangladesh Liberation War where up to 3 million died.

Partition was only undertaken to avoid an inevitable Indian Civil War

I think the point was that whether you are right or not that that is what would have happened, and you're not the first person I've ever seen to suggest it, it cannot be a fact as such since it is by definition a counter factual hypothesis?

Sunil_Prasannan

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

How can that be an actual 'fact' ?

It's HYUFD - anything can be spun to be a "fact"

initforthemoney

Sunil_Prasannan said:

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.

stjohn

Off topic - but BREXIT is never really off topic.

Would a poll of PBers on a second referendum be a good idea?

Possible questions.

1. How did you vote in the 2017 Referendum? Leave or Remain?

2. Do you support a 2nd referendum?

3. If there was a 2nd referendum, with the following questions, how would you vote? (AV type vote with a first and second preference option).

a) Support the Leave Deal negotiated by the government?
b) Support No Deal
c) Support Remain.

I might email Mike and suggest this.

HYUFD

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

Source please? You seem to care not a jot about the million or so who died because of your botched Partition.

Without Partition far more would have died as Muslims in India went to war against the Hindu majority Indian government to fight for their own state

No polling data to back that up?

Well had there been a Civil War with mass deaths it would have been as there was no Partition.

I picked the Bangladesh Liberation War as the closest possible comparison albeit on a lesser scale than an Indian Civil War

kle4

stjohn said:

Off topic - but BREXIT is never really off topic.

Would a poll of PBers on a second referendum be a good idea?

Possible questions.

1. How did you vote in the 2017 Referendum? Leave or Remain?

2. Do you support a 2nd referendum?

3. If there was a 2nd referendum, with the following questions, how would you vote? (AV type vote with a first and second preference option).

a) Support the Leave Deal negotiated by the government?
b) Support No Deal
c) Support Remain.

Just for fun.

1) Personally I didn't vote any way in the 2017 referendum, I must have missed that one But for 2016: Leave
2) Yes, sort of (depends on the question maybe)
3) Probably a) c)

Philip_Thompson

Alistair said:

So, I BoJo going to go for it in October then?

I had been assuming that whoever wanted ot hbe next was going to wait for BINO to happen next year then step in with a hearty "Thank You" to May for a hard job well done but now we needed a steely Leaver to navigate us through the choppy waters of BINO.

May deserves to go because she was the one who pushed the "no deal is better than a bad deal" line so frequently and now she has at best a potential terrible deal. By her own standards she has failed miserably.

williamglenn

Betting post:
https://twitter.com/alliehbnews/status/1026939183905034243?s=21

HYUFD

initforthemoney said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.

Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.

Sunil_Prasannan

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

How can that be an actual 'fact' ?

See the Bangladesh Liberation War where up to 3 million died.

The Bangladesh Liberation War was Muslim against Muslim (for the most part). India only intervened directly a fortnight before the Pakistani collapse in Dhaka.

The War was caused directly by the crazy idea of partitioning India into two states, where the eastern zone of the Muslim State (what we know today as Bangladesh) is culturally rather different from (western) Pakistan. For example, the Muslim Bengalis wear Hindu garb like Saris and write their language from left to right, like their Hindu neighbouring states.

Benpointer

stjohn said:

Off topic - but BREXIT is never really off topic.

Would a poll of PBers on a second referendum be a good idea?

Possible questions.

1. How did you vote in the 2017 Referendum? Leave or Remain?

2. Do you support a 2nd referendum?

3. If there was a 2nd referendum, with the following questions, how would you vote? (AV type vote with a first and second preference option).

a) Support the Leave Deal negotiated by the government?
b) Support No Deal
c) Support Remain.

I might email Mike and suggest this.

1. Remain
2. Yes
3. c), a)

Edit: Re 3. a) I'm assuming something similar to Chequers get agreed - at present the government has not negotiated a deal, of course.

kle4

Philip_Thompson said:

Alistair said:

So, I BoJo going to go for it in October then?

I had been assuming that whoever wanted ot hbe next was going to wait for BINO to happen next year then step in with a hearty "Thank You" to May for a hard job well done but now we needed a steely Leaver to navigate us through the choppy waters of BINO.

May deserves to go because she was the one who pushed the "no deal is better than a bad deal" line so frequently and now she has at best a potential terrible deal. By her own standards she has failed miserably.

Deserving to go is not really the issue, it's when she goes and what can someone else accomplish and what should they accomplish if she goes now or otherwise in advance of a deal (the prospects of which I am in any case skeptical about). No dealers should have moved against her already, they surely have the numbers at the least for a challenge, but they can always just vote down something later, no worries as far as they are concerned.

But anyone in support of a different deal should definitely have already moved in order to give time to negotiate the deal they want. Boris waiting until September or October means he has a lot more pressure to deliver something, and quickly, whereas 'reluctantly' allowing a bad deal to go through, but then presenting as the champion of harder Brexiters who will set us on the right path of divergence during and after transition would be easier for him, less pressure to immediately deliver.

Night all.

stjohn

kle4 said:

stjohn said:

Off topic - but BREXIT is never really off topic.

Would a poll of PBers on a second referendum be a good idea?

Possible questions.

1. How did you vote in the 2017 Referendum? Leave or Remain?

2. Do you support a 2nd referendum?

3. If there was a 2nd referendum, with the following questions, how would you vote? (AV type vote with a first and second preference option).

a) Support the Leave Deal negotiated by the government?
b) Support No Deal
c) Support Remain.

Just for fun.

1) Personally I didn't vote any way in the 2017 referendum, I must have missed that one But for 2016: Leave
2) Yes, sort of (depends on the question maybe)
3) Probably a) c)

OK. My go.

1. 2016 I was Remain.

2. Yes.

3. Probably a). Then c).

Philip_Thompson

HYUFD said:

initforthemoney said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.

Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.

Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?

HYUFD

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

How can that be an actual 'fact' ?

See the Bangladesh Liberation War where up to 3 million died.

The Bangladesh Liberation War was Muslim against Muslim (for the most part). India only intervened directly a fortnight before the Pakistani collapse in Dhaka.

The War was caused directly by the crazy idea of partitioning India into two states, where the eastern zone of the Muslim State (what we know today as Bangladesh) is culturally rather different from (western) Pakistan. For example, the Muslim Bengalis wear Hindu garb like Saris and write their language from left to right, like their Hindu neighbouring states.

That is just an argument for creating Bangladesh at the start not for not partitioning India and creating Pakistan as well

Benpointer

williamglenn said:

Betting post:
https://twitter.com/alliehbnews/status/1026939183905034243?s=21

Except he won't, will he.

Awb683

Boris is to be congratulated for his comments.

Awb683

No deal is the way to go.

TOPPING

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

HYUFD my old China, you can't say "the facts are" and then follow it with a conditional "would have".

HYUFD

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

initforthemoney said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.

Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.

Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?

Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader

Benpointer

Awb683 said:

No deal is the way to go.

You're looking very appropriately red in the face there Awb

Ishmael_Z

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

initforthemoney said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.

Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.

Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?

No deal is better than a bad deal is necessarily true, and even if it wasn't the whole essence of negotiation is pretending that it is. Citizens of nowhere meant Starbucks.

ralphmalph

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

initforthemoney said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.

Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.

Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?

Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader

This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1026945528997834754

Foxy

williamglenn said:

Betting post:
https://twitter.com/alliehbnews/status/1026939183905034243?s=21

Hargreaves also thinks that Britain needs a Corbyn government to teach us all a lesson. He has gone all swivel eyed. Brexit does that to people.

https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1026716729454546944?s=19

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1026945686942699520

kle4

ralphmalph said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

initforthemoney said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.

Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.

Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?

Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader

This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.

Many things are. I would imagine it is due to a perception of who would replace each leader if they were removed. Despite her words which inspired 'crush the saboteurs' headlines, May is clearly not offering the hard Brexit red meat her base probably wants. A replacement, whoever it is, would probably tack harder, and be worse in their eyes.

With Corbyn, despite the base adoring him, perhaps LDs think he would be replaced by an improvement.

Foxy

ralphmalph said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

initforthemoney said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.

Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.

Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?

Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader

This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.

Easier to beat! LD target seats are nearly all Tory held.

rottenborough

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1026945686942699520

What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?

HYUFD

ralphmalph said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

initforthemoney said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.

Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.

Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?

Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader

This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.

As the alternative is probably Boris or Corbyn

Roger

I think Boris was feeling sorry for Jeremy

Benpointer

ralphmalph said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

initforthemoney said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.

Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.

Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?

Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader

This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.

"...always keep a-hold of Nurse
For fear of finding something worse."

kle4

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1026945686942699520

A bit extreme for being insulting and oafish. More pressingly, it is surely not the most insulting thing he has ever said.

Benpointer

rottenborough said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1026945686942699520

What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?

Precisely this:

HYUFD

kle4 said:

ralphmalph said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

initforthemoney said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.

Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.

Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?

Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader

This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.

Many things are. I would imagine it is due to a perception of who would replace each leader if they were removed. Despite her words which inspired 'crush the saboteurs' headlines, May is clearly not offering the hard Brexit red meat her base probably wants. A replacement, whoever it is, would probably tack harder, and be worse in their eyes.

With Corbyn, despite the base adoring him, perhaps LDs think he would be replaced by an improvement.

LD voters dream next general election would be May v Umunna, LD voters nightmare next general election would be Boris v Corbyn

kle4

Roger said:

I think Boris was feeling sorry for Jeremy

People attacking Corbyn helps stabilise May by at least keeping her off the headlins. People talking about Boris, whether in praise or condemnation, helps destablise May, since everyone knows his actions are about succeeding her, and he knows plenty will support what he says (or even merely what they perceive him to have said).

Sunil_Prasannan

kle4 said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1026945686942699520

A bit extreme for being insulting and oafish. More pressingly, it is surely not the most insulting thing he has ever said.

"The dreadful truth is that when people come to see their MP they have run out of better ideas."

MaxPB

rottenborough said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1026945686942699520

What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?

Nothing, Boris isn't in the cabinet.

stjohn

rottenborough said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1026945686942699520

What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?

If she is sensible she will do nothing. He is trying to build a new platform for himself and would be best ignored.

Sunil_Prasannan

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1026945686942699520

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

Benpointer

HYUFD said:

kle4 said:

ralphmalph said:

HYUFD said:

Philip_Thompson said:

HYUFD said:

initforthemoney said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.

Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.

Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?

Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader

This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.

Many things are. I would imagine it is due to a perception of who would replace each leader if they were removed. Despite her words which inspired 'crush the saboteurs' headlines, May is clearly not offering the hard Brexit red meat her base probably wants. A replacement, whoever it is, would probably tack harder, and be worse in their eyes.

With Corbyn, despite the base adoring him, perhaps LDs think he would be replaced by an improvement.

LDs dream next general election would be May v Umunna, LDs nightmare next general election would be Boris v Corbyn

Is that a fact?

kle4

Benpointer said:

rottenborough said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1026945686942699520

What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?

Precisely this:

There's nothing she realistically can do as her position is so weak anyway. I don't think that is what her comments were about. I think they were about fueling the fire, inasmuch as was needed, to keep the story going (while i imagine Lord Sheikhs comments would do that to an extent, the PM commenting directly make it bigger), with a view to trying to impress upon MPs "Really? As much as you don't like me, whenever the next contest comes do you want to be dealing with stories like this all the time?"

Sunil_Prasannan

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FPT

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1026905349826244613

All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.

The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.

What are you going to do with West Belfast?

Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?

The Radcliffe.

"The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!"

And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed

You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.

Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war

Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.

The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition

How can that be an actual 'fact' ?

See the Bangladesh Liberation War where up to 3 million died.

The Bangladesh Liberation War was Muslim against Muslim (for the most part). India only intervened directly a fortnight before the Pakistani collapse in Dhaka.

The War was caused directly by the crazy idea of partitioning India into two states, where the eastern zone of the Muslim State (what we know today as Bangladesh) is culturally rather different from (western) Pakistan. For example, the Muslim Bengalis wear Hindu garb like Saris and write their language from left to right, like their Hindu neighbouring states.

That is just an argument for creating Bangladesh at the start not for not partitioning India and creating Pakistan as well

As I said before, Partition was botched.

Benpointer

kle4 said:

Benpointer said:

rottenborough said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1026945686942699520

What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?

Precisely this:

There's nothing she realistically can do as her position is so weak anyway. I don't think that is what her comments were about. I think they were about fueling the fire, inasmuch as was needed, to keep the story going (while i imagine Lord Sheikhs comments would do that to an extent, the PM commenting directly make it bigger), with a view to trying to impress upon MPs "Really? As much as you don't like me, whenever the next contest comes do you want to be dealing with stories like this all the time?"

That's a good point.

Roger

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1026945686942699520

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

a stupid comment even by your dismal standards

williamglenn

Benpointer said:

rottenborough said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1026945686942699520

What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?

Precisely this:

Flag, quote and say he’s off topic?

GIN1138

Roger said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1026945686942699520

If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

a stupid comment even by your dismal standards

That's not very nice to Sunil.

Stark_Dawning

It might be destructive and cynical, but smart politics from Boris nonetheless. His piece was only ostensibly about banning the burka; its real purpose was to delight his people by having a pop at the daughters of Islam. Looks to have worked like a charm.