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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Forget the 70s, new voters can’t even remember the 90s

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    OGH and family has done the gorge. We did it 25-odd years ago when I was about 11. I remember it as being moderately pleasant, but long.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Sounds fascinating.

    Charles said:

    O/T but wanted to let people know about our new exhibition - 31 Jan through 27 April at 2 Temple Place. It's a collaboration with the Museums of Cambridge. Below is from the press release so apologies for the marketing speak!


    Thanks - everyone welcome (free entry). Wanted to do something a bit more science-y this time round... Already planning ideas for the 2015 exhibition, so always happy to listen to suggestions :)
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    @Polruan

    'As an interesting footnote, it's not about left vs right any more, it's about big vs small, capital vs people.'

    In a nutshell.
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    SeanT said:

    Has any pb-er ever walked the Samaria gorge in Crete? I have a chance to do it tomorrow, but a lot of websites say it is overrated, touristy, crowded, boring, 6 hours, yada yada

    Others say it is mindblowing and beautiful.

    Hmpft!

    Yes, but probably around 30 years ago. Not crowded then, so fine. If it is now I wouldn't bother.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It is a masterpiece of pure Prescott-ery, updated to suit our new Leader.

    One word is a tragedy, a million are a statistic.

    All power to the Soviets, smash the Kulaks and wreckers!
    MikeK said:

    The Hunt for Ed October!

    Comrades! This is your captain! It is an honour to speak to you today! And I'm honoured to be sailing with you on the maiden voyage of our Motherland's most recent achievement. And once more, we play our dangerous game. A game of chess... against our old adversary, the Conservative Party! For a hundred years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game... and played it well. But today, the game is different. WE have the advantage! It reminds me of the heady days of 1945 and Clement Atlee, when the world trembled at the sound of our Nationalisations. Now they will tremble again - at the sound of our silence. The order is: engage the Energy Policy Freeze! Comrades! Our own activists don't know our full potential! They will do everything possible to test us, but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our activists behind! We will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest parliamentary constituency, and listen to their braying and tittering... while we conduct Anti-Austerity debates! And when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Brighton, where the sun is warm, and so is the... comradeship. A great day, comrades! We sail into history!

    Can I have all this in Russian. It doesn't make sense in English.
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    RedRag1RedRag1 Posts: 527

    The Hunt for Ed October!

    Comrades! This is your captain! It is an honour to speak to you today! And I'm honoured to be sailing with you on the maiden voyage of our Motherland's most recent achievement. And once more, we play our dangerous game. A game of chess... against our old adversary, the Conservative Party! For a hundred years, your fathers before you and your older brothers played this game... and played it well. But today, the game is different. WE have the advantage! It reminds me of the heady days of 1945 and Clement Atlee, when the world trembled at the sound of our Nationalisations. Now they will tremble again - at the sound of our silence. The order is: engage the Energy Policy Freeze! Comrades! Our own activists don't know our full potential! They will do everything possible to test us, but they will only test their own embarrassment. We will leave our activists behind! We will pass through the Conservative patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest parliamentary constituency, and listen to their braying and tittering... while we conduct Anti-Austerity debates! And when we are finished, the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Brighton, where the sun is warm, and so is the... comradeship. A great day, comrades! We sail into history!

    *** Wipes tear from eye ***
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,449
    edited September 2013

    It is a masterpiece of pure Prescott-ery, updated to suit our new Leader.

    One word is a tragedy, a million are a statistic.

    All power to the Soviets, smash the Kulaks and wreckers!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRsiwBoUQPM
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    Interesting article Henry, didn't Labour try a much derided "Don't let them take us back to the '80s" in 2010 which was widely seen to have backfired (pun intended)

    On the question of Scottish separation, the SNP persists in believing the date of independence is within the gift of 8% of the UK, not the remaining 92% - as with the EU, NATO, British passports and Sterling, they may yet be disabused of the notion.

    Meanwhile BBC news is saying that Eck is claiming that Cameron "will be dragged kicking & screaming" to a debate:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-24297286

    As Cameron observes, "It is a well understood and reasonable principle that you get to pick your own team's captain, but not your opponent's as well."
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Now that is a book worth buying. Do it.
    SeanT said:

    OK ta! So maybe I won't do the gorge. F*CK THE GORGE.

    Indeed, I might go so far as to write an anti-travel book, all about overrated places you shouldn't bother going to see, called F*CK THE GORGE.

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    SeanT said:

    . F*CK THE GORGE.

    I misread that and thought Alanbrooke had been on the sherry.....

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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    The 1970s were great. Funk weekenders, 'Columbo', midget gems, making compilation tapes with your new cassette deck, out from after breakfast 'til teatime. I rest my case.
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    edited September 2013
    Carola said:

    The 1970s were great. Funk weekenders, 'Columbo', midget gems, making compilation tapes with your new cassette deck, out from after breakfast 'til teatime. I rest my case.

    Oh, and most of my top 10 favourite films.
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    SeanT said:

    OK ta! So maybe I won't do the gorge. F*CK THE GORGE.

    Indeed, I might go so far as to write an anti-travel book, all about overrated places you shouldn't bother going to see, called F*CK THE GORGE.

    That would be an interesting list. What's your number one?
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    Carola said:

    The 1970s were great. Funk weekenders, 'Columbo', midget gems, making compilation tapes with your new cassette deck, out from after breakfast 'til teatime. I rest my case.

    And you need to remember that when people refer to past decades the political and economic events are not always foremost in their minds. People have personal memories of the past and simply condemning a policy as "back to the 70s" does not resonate with most people, even those who were alive at the time.

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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    felix said:

    I agree but unfortunately all the main parties are still beholden to the 'science' of global warming and apparently hold the extraordinarily stupid belief that somehow we can stop this on our own. The perspective of history on these matters will not be kind to any of our current political masters.

    It shows how the BBC can completely dominate politics.

    For 20 odd years they've been pushing the official global warming narrative in almost every TV and radio program while covering up that the actual warming started to flat-line 15 years ago. Because of that the bulk of the public still believe the official version and because of that even those politicians who've realized the whole thing's been a fraud for years don't want to risk rocking the boat.

    Large chunks of British politics are Kafka politics because of the gap between the BBC version of reality and the truth and as being "mainstream" basically means conforming to the fairy tale BBC version of reality you get the growth in "others."
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    SeanT said:

    Now that is a book worth buying. Do it.

    SeanT said:

    OK ta! So maybe I won't do the gorge. F*CK THE GORGE.

    Indeed, I might go so far as to write an anti-travel book, all about overrated places you shouldn't bother going to see, called F*CK THE GORGE.

    All of Crete is a bit F*CK THE GORGE. There are truly sublime moments, but they are all besieged by hideously overdone, oversold, overrun, overrated tacky touristy tat-fests.

    I can't decide whether it's great despite the crowds, or just gruesome. I literally don't understand these tourists who crowd into the same fish restaurants on the same swarming waterfronts with the exact same menus in English, surrounded by Germans, Swedes, Brits and Yanks - and sit there thinking they are in "Greece".

    What is that about? Maybe my job has turned me into a horrible travel snob, yet my job IS to sell these places to travellers. The paradoxes multiply. I shall drink more mediocre Greek wine.

    Not that I do much non-walking travelling (*), but I generally find the best of a place - the real place - out of season once the tourists have wimped off.

    (*) Although the best way of getting to know a place is by walking through it. The exception, perhaps, being gorges ...
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
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    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    SeanT said:

    Now that is a book worth buying. Do it.

    SeanT said:

    OK ta! So maybe I won't do the gorge. F*CK THE GORGE.

    Indeed, I might go so far as to write an anti-travel book, all about overrated places you shouldn't bother going to see, called F*CK THE GORGE.

    All of Crete is a bit F*CK THE GORGE. There are truly sublime moments, but they are all besieged by hideously overdone, oversold, overrun, overrated tacky touristy tat-fests.

    I can't decide whether it's great despite the crowds, or just gruesome. I literally don't understand these tourists who crowd into the same fish restaurants on the same swarming waterfronts with the exact same menus in English, surrounded by Germans, Swedes, Brits and Yanks - and sit there thinking they are in "Greece".

    What is that about? Maybe my job has turned me into a horrible travel snob, yet my job IS to sell these places to travellers. The paradoxes multiply. I shall drink more mediocre Greek wine.

    Great post Sean. I went to Southern Spain on holiday years ago, and the coast was exactly as you describe. Depressing. How I yearned for France which, whatever you think of it, is very French.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Versailles is crap. Massive queues, too crowded and the surly attitudes of a declining civilization.

    Give it a miss.
    SeanT said:

    Carola said:

    SeanT said:

    OK ta! So maybe I won't do the gorge. F*CK THE GORGE.

    Indeed, I might go so far as to write an anti-travel book, all about overrated places you shouldn't bother going to see, called F*CK THE GORGE.

    That would be an interesting list. What's your number one?
    The Amalfi coast. Totally ruined.

    Nearby Naples has ten times the mystery and magic, and tons of majestic art to boot, and yet almost zero tourists, because of its seedy reputation.

    Grazie, Camorristi!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    surbiton said:
    I don't think the argument is if it is a problem or not, it is what the solution should be.
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    Labour for 70s

    Tories for 1870s!
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,062
    Omnium said:

    I remember the 70s all too well. I wasn't very old, but the lessons stuck. The unions, I learned, are intrinsically bad. If you ever give power to the uneducated then the dire circumstances of that decade are the inevitable result. I'm bitter too about my education - despite the state spending vast sums on the system it was only by luck that I managed to realise that knowledge was a cornucopia of good things.

    Noone really knew prior to the 70s just how bad the policies of the left in practice would be. Those policies and those themes nearly brought what had once been the greatest nation in the world to her knees. I doubt we'll really ever recover, but we should never forget that low point.

    New voters however should make up their minds as they see it. I regard it as a little unfortunate that they will almost certainly not have been told of the pervasive failure of left wing ideas - "destroy by attention" is entirely absent from the curriculum, as in "build by inattention". The facts are withheld by state employees who actually pay to conspire in the programme of disinformation of the left. They do this because the left's ideology plays on peoples shortcomings. The fear of being found out to be faulty will propel most people to making 'insurance payments' of a far greater worth.

    The conclusions from the 70s experience, which are surely valid today, shouldn't be forgotten.

    A very funny post.
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    Interesting article Henry, didn't Labour try a much derided "Don't let them take us back to the '80s" in 2010 which was widely seen to have backfired (pun intended)

    On the question of Scottish separation, the SNP persists in believing the date of independence is within the gift of 8% of the UK, not the remaining 92% - as with the EU, NATO, British passports and Sterling, they may yet be disabused of the notion.

    Meanwhile BBC news is saying that Eck is claiming that Cameron "will be dragged kicking & screaming" to a debate:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-24297286

    As Cameron observes, "It is a well understood and reasonable principle that you get to pick your own team's captain, but not your opponent's as well."

    Kudos to whomsoever came up with the "It is a well understood and reasonable principle that you get to pick your own team's captain, but not your opponent's as well." line.
    It has squashed and crushed Salmond's goading in a single sentence.


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    Carola said:

    The 1970s were great. Funk weekenders, 'Columbo', midget gems, making compilation tapes with your new cassette deck, out from after breakfast 'til teatime. I rest my case.

    And you need to remember that when people refer to past decades the political and economic events are not always foremost in their minds. People have personal memories of the past and simply condemning a policy as "back to the 70s" does not resonate with most people, even those who were alive at the time.

    Comrades! Wasn't Comrade Ted (Heath) also in office during the 1970s?
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    PBTories link Dan Hodges. OK, I will link Fraser Nelson. Not that I agree with him on hi sconclusions.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/10336902/The-scale-of-Ed-Milibands-ambition-is-both-breathtaking-and-terrifying.html
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,227
    SeanT: agree with you re Naples - a great city! Mind you, I grew up there so am biased.

    Ditto re the French Riviera - went there one summer and loathed it. Never again.

    Not impressed with Greece. Sicily on the other hand is gorgeous.
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    SeanT said:

    Now that is a book worth buying. Do it.

    SeanT said:

    OK ta! So maybe I won't do the gorge. F*CK THE GORGE.

    Indeed, I might go so far as to write an anti-travel book, all about overrated places you shouldn't bother going to see, called F*CK THE GORGE.

    All of Crete is a bit F*CK THE GORGE. There are truly sublime moments, but they are all besieged by hideously overdone, oversold, overrun, overrated tacky touristy tat-fests.

    I can't decide whether it's great despite the crowds, or just gruesome. I literally don't understand these tourists who crowd into the same fish restaurants on the same swarming waterfronts with the exact same menus in English, surrounded by Germans, Swedes, Brits and Yanks - and sit there thinking they are in "Greece".

    What is that about? Maybe my job has turned me into a horrible travel snob, yet my job IS to sell these places to travellers. The paradoxes multiply. I shall drink more mediocre Greek wine.

    Your job isn't (or shouldn't be) to sell these places to the public; it's to show them what they're missing. You should aim to be the Clarkson of the travel world. Top Gear works not because it reviews a Vauxhall Vectra but because it reviews a Pagani Zonda as if it was available to the average man. (and does funny stuff too).

    The tourist spots are always depressing because they're full of tourists - and the tourists are there because it's easy and cheap to get to, and there's something interesting / enjoyable to do when you get there.

    Crete is huge and outside the coasts / large towns, not all that modern. Get up the windy country lanes, sit outside a tavern for half an hour waiting to be served and enjoy the authentic Greek experience.
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    RedRag1RedRag1 Posts: 527
    surbiton said:
    Is that the sound of brakes I can hear. Huge u-turn on the way over the policy if their leader decides he wants something like it.
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    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795


    It shows how the BBC can completely dominate politics.

    For 20 odd years they've been pushing the official global warming narrative in almost every TV and radio program while covering up that the actual warming started to flat-line 15 years ago.
    But it hasn't flat lined for 15 years.

    So the BBC is only telling the truth.
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    BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Really impressed by Ed Miliband's speech on Tuesday.

    Paradigm changing - the Tories have been all over the place since 3pm Tuesday afternoon.

    The Tories look like a team that have been rumbled.

    They need a good conference.
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited September 2013
    We had once a good walk down into Grand Canyon, camping there overnight---doing it in early Spring to miss the crowds.

    But best would be to walk its length:

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Man-Walked-Through-Time/dp/0679723064#reader_0679723064

    Actually there's magic in the UK countryside. For instance alone and somewhere between Bristol and Bath (shades of le grand meaulnes or Wind in the Willows?) at the end of a green way I happened on the ridge of a hill which the farmer had left respected as woods, possibly very ancient. Just peeking into it evoked feelings of another world, primitive and slightly chilling. Maybe it was just the feel of raw wild life, but it reminds me of what this chap may have felt:

    http://tinyurl.com/qxleky6
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    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT: agree with you re Naples - a great city! Mind you, I grew up there so am biased.

    Ditto re the French Riviera - went there one summer and loathed it. Never again.

    Not impressed with Greece. Sicily on the other hand is gorgeous.

    Certo. As the Lombard saying goes "Forza Etna, forza Vesuvio !!! ".

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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    RedRag1 said:

    surbiton said:
    Is that the sound of brakes I can hear. Huge u-turn on the way over the policy if their leader decides he wants something like it.
    Yes, the smell is of burning rubber ! If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    BenM said:



    It shows how the BBC can completely dominate politics.

    For 20 odd years they've been pushing the official global warming narrative in almost every TV and radio program while covering up that the actual warming started to flat-line 15 years ago.
    But it hasn't flat lined for 15 years.

    So the BBC is only telling the truth.


    Kafka politics -> others.
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    corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    edited September 2013
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Now that is a book worth buying. Do it.

    SeanT said:

    OK ta! So maybe I won't do the gorge. F*CK THE GORGE.

    Indeed, I might go so far as to write an anti-travel book, all about overrated places you shouldn't bother going to see, called F*CK THE GORGE.


    What is that about? Maybe my job has turned me into a horrible travel snob, yet my job IS to sell these places to travellers. The paradoxes multiply. I shall drink more mediocre Greek wine.

    Your job isn't (or shouldn't be) to sell these places to the public; it's to show them what they're missing. You should aim to be the Clarkson of the travel world. Top Gear works not because it reviews a Vauxhall Vectra but because it reviews a Pagani Zonda as if it was available to the average man. (and does funny stuff too).



    Crete is huge and outside the coasts / large towns, not all that modern. Get up the windy country lanes, sit outside a tavern for half an hour waiting to be served and enjoy the authentic Greek experience.
    Oi, I know how to do my job, Young Herdson, or I wouldn't be sitting here now in Hania moaning about being paid to go on holiday like the wanker I am. There are probably 1000 aspiring writers trying to get every travel writing gig. Many are called but few are chosen.

    As it happens, I just spent the last two days in an amazing villa in the Cretan countryside, kind of Mies van Der Rohe meets the Minoans. Yes, it was v charming.

    "Breakfast with Le Corbusier. Coffee brewed by Frank Lloyd Wright pic.twitter.com/evP3kUuEXv"

    But, oh, the crowds on the coast. Eeek. There's no denying that Mass Tourism on this scale is quite ugly and rather depressing. Yet this is *my* industry. It is morally perplexing.
    If you want material for a hate piece, Benidorm is well. It's Benidorm.

    Although I suppose Benidorm pretends to be nothing else.

    It's probably more depressing to go some other spot with a better rep and more to offer and find it sullied.
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    Toms said:

    We had once a good walk down into Grand Canyon, camping there overnight---doing it in early Spring to miss the crowds.

    But best would be to walk its length:

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Man-Walked-Through-Time/dp/0679723064#reader_0679723064

    Actually there's magic in the UK countryside. For instance alone and somewhere between Bristol and Bath (shades of le grand meaulnes or Wind in the Willows?) at the end of a green way I happened on the ridge of a hill which the farmer had left respected as woods, possibly very ancient. Just peeking into it evoked feelings of another world, primitive and slightly chilling. Maybe it was just the feel of raw wild life, but it reminds me of what this chap may have felt:

    http://tinyurl.com/qxleky6

    I've had stacks of those sorts of moments. Sleeping in a long barrow. Camping at the end of Filey Brigg. Walking from Sandwood Bay to Cape Wrath. The remoter parts of Avebury at night. In fact, almost any of the western third of the Ridgeway. Almost spiritual experiences.

    On the other hand, bivvying in a forest when people are out lamping is perhaps exactly the opposite feeling. Sheer, guttural fear.
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    Toms said:

    We had once a good walk down into Grand Canyon, camping there overnight---doing it in early Spring to miss the crowds.

    But best would be to walk its length:

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Man-Walked-Through-Time/dp/0679723064#reader_0679723064

    Actually there's magic in the UK countryside. For instance alone and somewhere between Bristol and Bath (shades of le grand meaulnes or Wind in the Willows?) at the end of a green way I happened on the ridge of a hill which the farmer had left respected as woods, possibly very ancient. Just peeking into it evoked feelings of another world, primitive and slightly chilling. Maybe it was just the feel of raw wild life, but it reminds me of what this chap may have felt:

    http://tinyurl.com/qxleky6

    I've had stacks of those sorts of moments. Sleeping in a long barrow. Camping at the end of Filey Brigg. Walking from Sandwood Bay to Cape Wrath. The remoter parts of Avebury at night. In fact, almost any of the western third of the Ridgeway. Almost spiritual experiences.

    On the other hand, bivvying in a forest when people are out lamping is perhaps exactly the opposite feeling. Sheer, guttural fear.
    Yep. Generally for me they happen only when alone, fitting in with the surroundings, noiseless as possible. One can slip through the countryside disturbing little, surprising wildlife.

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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    As I left work this evening I was treated to some rather lovely young cheerleaders doing their thing to promote the NFL.

    Sometimes working in the smoke has its advantages
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    'Larry the Cat? The Camerons hate him and his presence is a PR stunt.' tonygallagher *fights urge to have positive feelings about Dave*
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    My most over-rated place to visit was the Vatican. Stuffed to the rafters, tours of 30+ (even the official ones) and everything felt a rush. Totally unbecoming of such a place.

    The Borghese couldn't have been more different.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,895
    Evening all :)

    Ah travel, broadens the mind and the waistline too.

    As I've mentioned on here before, I'm a huge fan of Vegas, one of the most relaxing cities on the planet. I genuinely feel at ease there and comfortable in the hubbub.

    This year, Mrs Stodge and I are taking on the Caribbean (well, parts thereof) but a part of me would rather be walking into the Palazzo Casino with $500 to throw around and contemplating lunch in Maggiano's.
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    SeanT said:

    Has any pb-er ever walked the Samaria gorge in Crete? I have a chance to do it tomorrow, but a lot of websites say it is overrated, touristy, crowded, boring, 6 hours, yada yada

    Others say it is mindblowing and beautiful.

    Hmpft!

    Yes. Did it in 2008. It is touristy and the trick is to belt the descent as quickly as possible and get ahead of the crowds so you can enjoy the rest of the walk - though it still pays not to dawdle. You'll experience a heck of a rise in temperature (it was about 5C and drizzly when I set off at the entrance; 30C+ and sunny when I arrived at the coast), so take several layers to remove as it warms.

    There are probably better gorges to walk with far fewer tourists but they'll be more difficult logistically.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    The 1970s were great. Funk weekenders, 'Columbo', midget gems, making compilation tapes with your new cassette deck, out from after breakfast 'til teatime. I rest my case.

    Oh, and most of my top 10 favourite films.
    what are your top 10?
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    The Eden Project. One of the most miserable days of my life.
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    If Obama manages to get a meaningful nuclear deal with Iran, then he'll have written a large chapter of his legacy.

    It's probably more to do with the years-old sanctions and internal Iranian politics than anything he's done, but he'll reap the benefits.
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    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT: agree with you re Naples - a great city! Mind you, I grew up there so am biased.

    It is a great city, and even if you prefer not to drive you can get in some trips out of town as there is conveniently a railway around Vesuvius that goes to Herculaneum and Pompeii - which everyone should visit before the mountain flattens them again. And boat trips to Capri and other places. Interesting wine made from grapes you've never heard of. The one place I didn't visit on my trip and wished I had was the Campi Flegrei.

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    corporeal said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Now that is a book worth buying. Do it.

    SeanT said:

    OK ta! So maybe I won't do the gorge. F*CK THE GORGE.

    Indeed, I might go so far as to write an anti-travel book, all about overrated places you shouldn't bother going to see, called F*CK THE GORGE.


    What is that about? Maybe my job has turned me into a horrible travel snob, yet my job IS to sell these places to travellers. The paradoxes multiply. I shall drink more mediocre Greek wine.

    Your job isn't (or shouldn't be) to sell these places to the public; it's to show them what they're missing. You should aim to be the Clarkson of the travel world. Top Gear works not because it reviews a Vauxhall Vectra but because it reviews a Pagani Zonda as if it was available to the average man. (and does funny stuff too).



    Crete is huge and outside the coasts / large towns, not all that modern. Get up the windy country lanes, sit outside a tavern for half an hour waiting to be served and enjoy the authentic Greek experience.
    Oi, I know how to do my job, Young Herdson, or I wouldn't be sitting here now in Hania moaning about being paid to go on holiday like the wanker I am. There are probably 1000 aspiring writers trying to get every travel writing gig. Many are called but few are chosen.

    As it happens, I just spent the last two days in an amazing villa in the Cretan countryside, kind of Mies van Der Rohe meets the Minoans. Yes, it was v charming.

    "Breakfast with Le Corbusier. Coffee brewed by Frank Lloyd Wright pic.twitter.com/evP3kUuEXv"

    But, oh, the crowds on the coast. Eeek. There's no denying that Mass Tourism on this scale is quite ugly and rather depressing. Yet this is *my* industry. It is morally perplexing.
    If you want material for a hate piece, Benidorm is well. It's Benidorm.

    Although I suppose Benidorm pretends to be nothing else.

    It's probably more depressing to go some other spot with a better rep and more to offer and find it sullied.
    Benidorm is somewhere I've been and would happily never go back. However, it hasn't ruined anywhere that was worth visiting and it doesn't pretend to be what it's not so I wouldn't diss it too much.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Equivalent to £200.

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Nowhere near as good as Kew gardens, or the Botanical gardens in Birmingham. I am with you on this one, Eden Project is one hell of grockles.
    Carola said:

    The Eden Project. One of the most miserable days of my life.

  • Options
    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Floater said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    The 1970s were great. Funk weekenders, 'Columbo', midget gems, making compilation tapes with your new cassette deck, out from after breakfast 'til teatime. I rest my case.

    Oh, and most of my top 10 favourite films.
    what are your top 10?
    Tbh it varies. But my favourite decade for film is the 70s. I like the 'mood'. Chinatown, Badlands, Cuckoo's Nest, Harold and Maude, Apocalypse Now, Conversation, French Connection, Taxi Driver, Godfather, Klute, Three Days of the Condor, President's Men, Marathon Man. Crowd pleasers like Jaws and Alien. Jeez, and loads more.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Anthony Well - "Why a Tory/Ukip alliance would benefit Labour":

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/anthonywells/2013/09/why-a-toryukip-alliance-would-benefit-labour/
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Sean T: Venice, agree. Though oddly I find you can walk three streets back from the main drags and the crowds seem to vanish.
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    "‘L’Angleterre est une nation de boutiquiers,’ said Napoleon, and now our greatest grocer’s daughter will be remembered with the highest honour this land can bestow: a shop. The Tories will open “Maggie’s Shop” at their conference and online. Think t-shirts and posters rather than milk and coal."

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/steerpike/2013/09/she-lives-on-in-our-hearts-and-our-wallets/

    Brings a tear to eye.
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    Carola said:

    The Eden Project. One of the most miserable days of my life.

    Isn't there a country house down that way with its own tea plantation?
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    "‘L’Angleterre est une nation de boutiquiers,’ said Napoleon, and now our greatest grocer’s daughter will be remembered with the highest honour this land can bestow: a shop. The Tories will open “Maggie’s Shop” at their conference and online. Think t-shirts and posters rather than milk and coal."

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/steerpike/2013/09/she-lives-on-in-our-hearts-and-our-wallets/

    Brings a tear to eye.

    There's a countdown:

    http://maggiesshop.com/
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    You can imagine my concern: 36 hours after tim's leave of absence, my cat disappeared this morning. What campaign had he set out on now? Was his target 9,999 cats to match his 9,999 vanilla posts?

    12 hours later, i located her at the top of a building site. 5 stories of scaffolding up, to be exact. Even if I wasn't scared of heights it would have been pretty terrifying by torchlight. Fvcking cats. Apologies @AveryLP and @JosiasJessop for my unscheduled departure from the interesting conversations earlier this evening.
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    edited September 2013

    Carola said:

    The Eden Project. One of the most miserable days of my life.

    Isn't there a country house down that way with its own tea plantation?
    There's a brand I think - can't recall the name.

    Edit: http://tregothnan.co.uk/ ?
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    On travel: Granada in Spain. Oodles of history and architecture ( stand where the Reconquista ended after 750 plus years) and the only place in Europe ( world?) where you can have breakfast and decide to go to have lunch outdoors in the warm overlooking the Med or go skiing - skiing for me :-)
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    AndyJS said:
    There will not be a UKIP/Tory pact. All the speculation is rubbish, it won't happen.

    Patrick O'Flynn ‏@oflynnexpress
    BBC SE saying Cam is "not looking for pacts". That's just as well because he isn't getting any.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Carola said:

    Floater said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    The 1970s were great. Funk weekenders, 'Columbo', midget gems, making compilation tapes with your new cassette deck, out from after breakfast 'til teatime. I rest my case.

    Oh, and most of my top 10 favourite films.
    what are your top 10?
    Tbh it varies. But my favourite decade for film is the 70s. I like the 'mood'. Chinatown, Badlands, Cuckoo's Nest, Harold and Maude, Apocalypse Now, Conversation, French Connection, Taxi Driver, Godfather, Klute, Three Days of the Condor, President's Men, Marathon Man. Crowd pleasers like Jaws and Alien. Jeez, and loads more.
    some great films in your list.

    1 film I do not recognize off the top of my head so off to IMDB to read up on it.

    I was quite young when I first saw Jaws, saw it again the other day with my wife and I think we both enjoyed it more this time round.
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    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Ah travel, broadens the mind and the waistline too.

    As I've mentioned on here before, I'm a huge fan of Vegas, one of the most relaxing cities on the planet. I genuinely feel at ease there and comfortable in the hubbub.

    This year, Mrs Stodge and I are taking on the Caribbean (well, parts thereof) but a part of me would rather be walking into the Palazzo Casino with $500 to throw around and contemplating lunch in Maggiano's.

    Mr Stodge - I am off to Vegas on Sunday for 4 nights. I shall be sure to think of PB if I go to Venice casino.

    For me the most overrated place to visit is Paris:

    -The Champs d'Elysses is a long street with trees
    -The Arc de Triomphe is only slightly bigger than the Wellington Arch
    - Notre Damme is nothing special and has long queues
    - The Eiffel Tower looks rusty and doesn't have any good illuminations like Blackpool!
    - They have British weather.

    The only thing I thought worth seeing was the Stade de France.
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    PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    Polruan said:
    I am uncomfortable with you broadening the scope of discussion to the [un]intended social consequences of a rather narrow economic policy being proposed by a party in opposition.

    ...

    Yet Miliband has given the impression that consumers have solely suffered at the hands of evil profiteering capitalists operating in a badly regulated oligopolist industry.

    And this is before government price intervention through environmental subsidies and policy goals are revealed and taken into account in the debate.

    It is poltically dishonest, even if understandable as an electoral tactic, Polruan.

    We are not going to solve all the unfair outcomes of 'neo-liberal' economic orthodoxy in the debate on energy price caps. But if we apply Ockham's razor to the issue of household energy costs, we might at least advance the debate and come closer to finding a solution to at least one issue concerning voters.

    A quick update and correction to my BIS EER stats;

    2001 Jan - 2010 Jan : Decrease of - 23.27%
    2010 Jan - 2013 Aug Increase of + 4.24%

    Updare uses latest data from Aug rather June 2013.
    Correction replaces wrongly transcribed 2010 Jan Index data.

    Net effect is to narrow the spread and impact but without altering the significance of the argument.

    From earlier... the FX point is an interesting one, and not one I'd particularly thought about. However, on the main issue, I think you (deliberately, in some ways) miss my point - because what Miliband is doing only makes any kind of sense if thought about as part of a wider paradigm shift. If, as you suspect, he broadly agrees with your view of the world and economic reality, it's just a peevishly stupid policy, like legislating against the tidal range. If he's trying to signal a deliberate approach to standing up to the market and so on, it makes quite a bit of sense. It's not politically dishonest, because even though some or all of the factors you describe obtain here, the thing he's attacking is also a problem. I don't believe he has said that the problem is solely caused by profiteering capitalists operating in a badly regulated oligopolistic industry. It's just that their input doesn't help. And so should be attacked.

    Anyway, I need to drink more whisky to recover from rescuing my cat, so I'll leave it at that.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,997
    edited September 2013
    "James Delingpole Leads Climate Change Sceptics in Trashing IPCC's 'Sexed-up' Report":

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/509664/20130927/ipcc-climate-change-report-skeptics-royal-society.htm

    "95 per cent of intelligent people know the new IPCC report is utter drivel":

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100237633/95-per-cent-of-intelligent-people-know-the-new-ipcc-report-is-utter-drivel/
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    welshowl said:

    On travel: Granada in Spain. Oodles of history and architecture ( stand where the Reconquista ended after 750 plus years) and the only place in Europe ( world?) where you can have breakfast and decide to go to have lunch outdoors in the warm overlooking the Med or go skiing - skiing for me :-)

    In Catania , Sicily you can have a granita breakfast and then go skiing on Etna. There's also Beirut.

  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,997
    edited September 2013
    I wouldn't mind if the Tories got a majority in 2015 but it looks like the chances of it happening are almost 0% on the current boundaries and with Scotland remaining part of the UK.

    The Tories winning a majority were 3.5 with Betfair yesterday but something must be up because that figure has risen to 4.0 today:

    http://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/market?id=1.101416490
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    Carola said:

    "‘L’Angleterre est une nation de boutiquiers,’ said Napoleon, and now our greatest grocer’s daughter will be remembered with the highest honour this land can bestow: a shop. The Tories will open “Maggie’s Shop” at their conference and online.

    Unbelievable. The Tories are still in thrall to Maggie 23 years after she resigned.

  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,895



    Mr Stodge - I am off to Vegas on Sunday for 4 nights. I shall be sure to think of PB if I go to Venice casino.

    I don't know where you are staying - I hope you're on or near the Strip. Four nights is too short - we usually go for ten days but there you are.

    The Venetian/Palazzo complex is wonderful but the Palazzo Casino is much better. If you're a fan of sports books, go to The Mirage or the Mandalay Bay. Have lunch at Maggiano's - the Lobster Carbonara is sublime.

    For a buffet, the best is Bacchanal in Caesar's Palace though for breakfast it's Peppermill beyond the Wynn.

    Enjoy, my friend.

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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,997
    Only been to mainland Spain once — Barcelona in March 2008. It was a bit disappointing; the place didn't seem to have the atmosphere the guidebooks promised.
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    Comrades,

    Remember, it's "x DEGREES Celsius", not "x Celsius"!

    Grrrr..
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,997
    First post-election German poll:

    CDU/CSU: 43%
    SPD: 26%
    Linke: 10%
    Green: 7%
    AfD: 5%
    FDP: 3%
    Others: 6%

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Front of times,osborne threatens to put brake on green taxes.

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/85621/the_times_saturday_28th_september_2013.html
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    Carola said:

    Floater said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    The 1970s were great. Funk weekenders, 'Columbo', midget gems, making compilation tapes with your new cassette deck, out from after breakfast 'til teatime. I rest my case.

    Oh, and most of my top 10 favourite films.
    what are your top 10?
    Tbh it varies. But my favourite decade for film is the 70s. I like the 'mood'. Chinatown, Badlands, Cuckoo's Nest, Harold and Maude, Apocalypse Now, Conversation, French Connection, Taxi Driver, Godfather, Klute, Three Days of the Condor, President's Men, Marathon Man. Crowd pleasers like Jaws and Alien. Jeez, and loads more.
    some great films in your list.

    1 film I do not recognize off the top of my head so off to IMDB to read up on it.

    I was quite young when I first saw Jaws, saw it again the other day with my wife and I think we both enjoyed it more this time round.
    Jaws is a stone-cold, copper-bottomed, all-time masterpiece. Just brilliant cinema. Spielberg at his youthful best. Incredible pacing.

    The story of its making is fascinating. The reason you never see the shark til the end is that the model-sharks didn't work properly so Spielberg had to hint at the threat rather than show it: much more effective.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/08/shark-week-remembering-bruce-the-mechanical-shark-in-jaws/243026/
    I must have seen 'Jaws' a couple of dozen times at least over the years. I went 'shark facts crazy' for about a year when I first saw it as a kid back in '75. I can speak all the dialogue along with it - not in company, obv... that would be really annoying :) (couldn't do it 'cold', but it's a bit like hearing a song you used to know... the words all come back).

    Yes I read about the shark thing. I think they had several, and loads of tech problems with them.

    It's still a great film today.
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    It has been confirmed that Wealden Conservatives will indeed be choosing the candidate to replace Charles Hendry by an open primary. Should be interesting.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    It has been confirmed that Wealden Conservatives will indeed be choosing the candidate to replace Charles Hendry by an open primary. Should be interesting.

    Richard,I'm still waiting on labours U-turn on the energy bill freeze ;-)
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    Good evening, everyone.

    "Worth noting that @David_Cameron's marriage tax alliance actually only worth £3.84 a week to couples. One pint. Next to pointless." - Tom Newton Dunn, on Twitter.

    Hmm. That's what, £200 a year?

    Yet Scots would be swayed aye or nay over £500 a year. How can £500 (a tenner a week) be nation-deciding, but £200 be 'next to pointless'?
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    surbiton said:

    Equivalent to £200.

    So more every year than EdM is offering for just 20 months?
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    Richard,I'm still waiting on labours U-turn on the energy bill freeze ;-)

    Ed has already confirmed that the freeze would be lifted if wholesale prices rose, has he not?
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    SeanT said:

    welshowl said:

    Sean T: Venice, agree. Though oddly I find you can walk three streets back from the main drags and the crowds seem to vanish.

    Yes. there's a main drag which winds from St Mark's Square, past the Rialto, to the Station, which is thronged all the time. But even in high summer if you walk over a few bridges you can find relative peace. And if you go to somewhere like Torcello, it is fabulously hushed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torcello

    Best time to see Venice is in drizzly November or December, when you get grey misty glimpses of anonymous people hurrying over willow-pattern bridges, under masking umbrellas, like parasolled geishas late for work in Shogun era Kyoto.
    I walked the Gorge in '86. It was the first holiday I ever went on with just me and a girl. It was pleasant, but not spectacular, but, we had spent the previous night in a taverna by our apartment, experiencing a raki and sirtaki night, so we were badly hungover, which might have jaded our experience. She dumped me not long after we flew back into East Midlands airport, so I've always avoided Crete ever since.

    The best city I've ever visited was Parma in Italy, beautiful architecture, stunning women, outstanding food and wine, very generous population. Mind you, we did land the day that Parma were playing Marseille in the UEFA cup final in Moscow, which they won, and the whole city was on the streets in blue and yellow, total mayhem. The whole city had a lie in the next morning.

  • Options
    Andy_JS said:

    First post-election German poll:

    CDU/CSU: 43%
    SPD: 26%
    Linke: 10%
    Green: 7%
    AfD: 5%
    FDP: 3%
    Others: 6%

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm

    Have they formed a new government yet?
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    SeanT said:

    I bet Egypt, touristically, if you have the cullions, would be f*cking amazing to visit, this winter.

    You'll be the only visitor, you'll probably see Luxor and Karnak entirely on your own, and you'll have five star hotels so desperate for your custom you can get a suite for £15.

    I have decided anywhere they speak Arabic is off limits, I don't want my head cut off.

    My upcoming holiday plans probably look a bit pedestrian to you... Christmas in Belgium, Barcelona Beer Festival in March, back to the Baltics and maybe the Auvergne (and the Cathar south) in September. But i am seriously thinking if I can roll two years' leave into one in a couple of years and go for a trundle round South east Asia.

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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,062
    Huhne is back!

    On Newsnight.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited September 2013
    Front of guardian,the inspectors right,my doc's surgery is one of the 10% not good enough and I see guardian as Theresa may - the next female prime minister ? ;-)


    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/85622/the_guardian_saturday_28th_september_2013.html
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,997

    Andy_JS said:

    First post-election German poll:

    CDU/CSU: 43%
    SPD: 26%
    Linke: 10%
    Green: 7%
    AfD: 5%
    FDP: 3%
    Others: 6%

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm

    Have they formed a new government yet?
    No, could take months.

    Predictably, Die Linke are calling for a government consisting of themselves, the Greens and SPD.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Comrades,

    Remember, it's "x DEGREES Celsius", not "x Celsius"!

    Grrrr..

    But remember, the same is not true for the Kelvin.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    QCarola said:

    Floater said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    The 1970s were great. Funk weekenders, 'Columbo', midget gems, making compilation tapes with your new cassette deck, out from after breakfast 'til teatime. I rest my case.

    Oh, and most of my top 10 favourite films.
    what are your top 10?
    Tbh it varies. But my favourite decade for film is the 70s. I like the 'mood'. Chinatown, Badlands, Cuckoo's Nest, Harold and Maude, Apocalypse Now, Conversation, French Connection, Taxi Driver, Godfather, Klute, Three Days of the Condor, President's Men, Marathon Man. Crowd pleasers like Jaws and Alien. Jeez, and loads more.
    some great films in your list.

    1 film I do not recognize off the top of my head so off to IMDB to read up on it.

    I was quite young when I first saw Jaws, saw it again the other day with my wife and I think we both enjoyed it more this time round.
    Jaws is a stone-cold, copper-bottomed, all-time masterpiece. Just brilliant cinema. Spielberg at his youthful best. Incredible pacing.

    The story of its making is fascinating. The reason you never see the shark til the end is that the model-sharks didn't work properly so Spielberg had to hint at the threat rather than show it: much more effective.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/08/shark-week-remembering-bruce-the-mechanical-shark-in-jaws/243026/
    One of the most memorable scenes - when the head appears in the hole in the boat - was shot well after principal photography ended in the film editor's swimming pool.....
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    welshowl said:

    On travel: Granada in Spain. Oodles of history and architecture ( stand where the Reconquista ended after 750 plus years) and the only place in Europe ( world?) where you can have breakfast and decide to go to have lunch outdoors in the warm overlooking the Med or go skiing - skiing for me :-)

    In Catania , Sicily you can have a granita breakfast and then go skiing on Etna. There's also Beirut.

    True true, but 1200m of descent?
  • Options
    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    QCarola said:

    Floater said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    The 1970s were great. Funk weekenders, 'Columbo', midget gems, making compilation tapes with your new cassette deck, out from after breakfast 'til teatime. I rest my case.

    Oh, and most of my top 10 favourite films.
    what are your top 10?
    Tbh it varies. But my favourite decade for film is the 70s. I like the 'mood'. Chinatown, Badlands, Cuckoo's Nest, Harold and Maude, Apocalypse Now, Conversation, French Connection, Taxi Driver, Godfather, Klute, Three Days of the Condor, President's Men, Marathon Man. Crowd pleasers like Jaws and Alien. Jeez, and loads more.
    some great films in your list.

    1 film I do not recognize off the top of my head so off to IMDB to read up on it.

    I was quite young when I first saw Jaws, saw it again the other day with my wife and I think we both enjoyed it more this time round.
    Jaws is a stone-cold, copper-bottomed, all-time masterpiece. Just brilliant cinema. Spielberg at his youthful best. Incredible pacing.

    The story of its making is fascinating. The reason you never see the shark til the end is that the model-sharks didn't work properly so Spielberg had to hint at the threat rather than show it: much more effective.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/08/shark-week-remembering-bruce-the-mechanical-shark-in-jaws/243026/
    One of the most memorable scenes - when the head appears in the hole in the boat - was shot well after principal photography ended in the film editor's swimming pool.....
    My favourite 'Jaws' story is that 'Alien' was pitched as 'Jaws in Space'.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited September 2013
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293



    Unbelievable. The Tories are still in thrall to Maggie 23 years after she resigned.



    Because she was a giant amongst pygmies.
  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Have the Tories really managed to give each paper its own exclusive?

    May on Visa Applications (FT)
    Cameron on the marriage tax break (Mail)
    Telegraph on "red lines" for coalition deals
    The Times on green takes

    OK, so the Guardian has the inspectorate on GPs (in his first interview)*, and the Express on house prices**...

    *And the IPCC report, unsurprisingly.
    **I understand Number 10 are all out of policies on Diana being murdered, statins, the weather, or Madeliene McCann.
  • Options
    Carola said:

    SeanT said:

    Floater said:

    QCarola said:

    Floater said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    The 1970s were great. Funk weekenders, 'Columbo', midget gems, making compilation tapes with your new cassette deck, out from after breakfast 'til teatime. I rest my case.

    Oh, and most of my top 10 favourite films.
    what are your top 10?
    Tbh it varies. But my favourite decade for film is the 70s. I like the 'mood'. Chinatown, Badlands, Cuckoo's Nest, Harold and Maude, Apocalypse Now, Conversation, French Connection, Taxi Driver, Godfather, Klute, Three Days of the Condor, President's Men, Marathon Man. Crowd pleasers like Jaws and Alien. Jeez, and loads more.
    some great films in your list.

    1 film I do not recognize off the top of my head so off to IMDB to read up on it.

    I was quite young when I first saw Jaws, saw it again the other day with my wife and I think we both enjoyed it more this time round.
    Jaws is a stone-cold, copper-bottomed, all-time masterpiece. Just brilliant cinema. Spielberg at his youthful best. Incredible pacing.

    The story of its making is fascinating. The reason you never see the shark til the end is that the model-sharks didn't work properly so Spielberg had to hint at the threat rather than show it: much more effective.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/08/shark-week-remembering-bruce-the-mechanical-shark-in-jaws/243026/
    One of the most memorable scenes - when the head appears in the hole in the boat - was shot well after principal photography ended in the film editor's swimming pool.....
    My favourite 'Jaws' story is that 'Alien' was pitched as 'Jaws in Space'.
    Cameron pitched Titanic as "Romeo and Juliet on a boat" and used the initials for the chief protagonists "Rose and Jack" - then marketed it as "2 hours 86 minutes long"!
  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    Good evening, everyone.

    "Worth noting that @David_Cameron's marriage tax alliance actually only worth £3.84 a week to couples. One pint. Next to pointless." - Tom Newton Dunn, on Twitter.

    Hmm. That's what, £200 a year?

    Yet Scots would be swayed aye or nay over £500 a year. How can £500 (a tenner a week) be nation-deciding, but £200 be 'next to pointless'?

    The marriage tax allowance is a beginning. Future (Conservative?) governments could increase that significantly in stages as it became affordable (or politically desirable).

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    perdix said:

    Good evening, everyone.

    "Worth noting that @David_Cameron's marriage tax alliance actually only worth £3.84 a week to couples. One pint. Next to pointless." - Tom Newton Dunn, on Twitter.

    Hmm. That's what, £200 a year?

    Yet Scots would be swayed aye or nay over £500 a year. How can £500 (a tenner a week) be nation-deciding, but £200 be 'next to pointless'?

    The marriage tax allowance is a beginning. Future (Conservative?) governments could increase that significantly in stages as it became affordable (or politically desirable).

    And how much was Ed's price control pledge supposed to save, even less! The magnitude is not the point, it is the direction as you rightly put it.
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    New post

    David Herdson
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    Interesting that the Mail makes the big headline £1,000 and not £200.

    More evidence that the Mail is getting fully behind Cameron.
This discussion has been closed.