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  • Options
    Roger said:

    @RichardN

    "They realise in their hearts of hearts that it's a major, major blunder and are casting around in the hope of finding scraps of evidence that it might not be such a disaster after all.

    It is, of course, a disaster after all."

    Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.....you have now written endless posts on the cataclysmic effect of Ed's policy of which of course there are none. Your real problem is that you know it's an election winner. The public believe they've been ripped off and the Tories by allying themselves with the companies look like they're behind it

    One or two of the more illiterate posters have been suggesting that a reduced share price will mean no more investment in infrastructure as though shareholders are paying for it when you and I know it's the customers. To my almost certain knowledge none of them have called on shareholders capital since privatization and one or two have actually bought shares back.

    Any problems will occur later. If you can't see the potential for problems, then there's really little hope for you.

    Do you think magic pixies deliver the electricity when you flick the switch? That the gas comes from some philosophical reaction in the pipes?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,015

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/household-bills/10327960/Fixed-rate-energy-deals-to-disappear-within-days.html

    This was published on Monday.

    "But he urged customers to consider longer-term deals where the price is set for several years. Scottish Power, for example, has a Fixed Price Energy January 2017 tariff. Fixed till that date, it equates to a typical annual cost of £1,350"

    Does anyone know the typical annual cost for a fixed price deal now?

    I have fixed price with EON and currently it is £120 a month for a 4 bed detached in Scotland , so heating on plenty as I work from home. That does not seem expensive to me but may be for some people.
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    Pulpstar said:

    @RobD - I believe there's also a huge capacity constraint in building nuclear power stations, in that the number of suppliers with the necessary expertise and technology is very limited (for example the special steel ultra-high-pressure tanks have to come from Japan). So, even if we went hell for leather on nuclear, and even without any planning delays, it simply wouldn't be possible to come up with a predominantly nuclear solution in a reasonable timescale.

    Without wishing to sound like a Brownite, wasn't that the stuff Forgemasters was going to build with its loan ?
    Yes, but it was always a bit odd that they claimed to need a government guarantee.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I also think Miliband has uncovered a key paradox in the perception of service provision -

    The key paradox Miliband has uncovered is that people want good services and also low taxes.

    They want clean energy and plentiful energy.

    They want successful businesses that don;t pay out rewards.

    They want banks to lend to them but also to be risk averse.

    They want to be able to own a property in Spain but also to opt out of the EU.

    They want their houses to be worth loads but also their kids to be able to get on the ladder.

    In short, they want what all customers who complain about Ryanair want. They want to pay peanuts to be magically bumped up to Upper Class.

    They want they impossible. Most politicians are too scared to disabuse them.
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    Off-topic:

    England 2-0 up. Against the Turks! [I claim Cypriot heritage: Athena may have been my mother though!]

    Anyhoos, sorry JJ,
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    Pulpstar said:

    @RobD - I believe there's also a huge capacity constraint in building nuclear power stations, in that the number of suppliers with the necessary expertise and technology is very limited (for example the special steel ultra-high-pressure tanks have to come from Japan). So, even if we went hell for leather on nuclear, and even without any planning delays, it simply wouldn't be possible to come up with a predominantly nuclear solution in a reasonable timescale.

    Without wishing to sound like a Brownite, wasn't that the stuff Forgemasters was going to build with its loan ?
    Yes, but it was always a bit odd that they claimed to need a government guarantee.
    The energy industry also demands guarantees, whether wind farm or nuclear. It's one of the reasons I'm unsure about whether the industry's taking on enough risk on the investment it pours in.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333

    Smart marketing by nPower: "Why wait for Ed?"

    http://www.npower.com/home/index.htm

    They've been on offer for ages Nick, I organised one a few months ago for an older relative.

    As to the Cons response, ok you heard it here first but there might just not be one. I think that there will be a "known unknown" response at Cons conference - ie something, pretty much analagous to the energy cap, that is in the ballpark but that hadn't been thought of which will be a lightbulb moment for rightists and bring a smile to our face.

    What will it be? Not sure.

    As for EdM and your lot, the narrative, at quite a subconscious level is already dividing those who applaud the shift left from those who are more Blairite. Hence my thought that there will be no direct response from the coalition. The media/mood is doing all they could hope for in bringing into focus the leftwards lurch. No need to gild the lily and they will let it ride.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Polruan said:


    Actually, I'm very fond of tim and there's definitely something missing today. And his status as an unpaid solitary enthusiast seems pretty clear.

    For today, we are all tim.

    Speak for yourself, sunshine. I thought the tim troll tag-team were a bunch of twats and hopefully they have fusked off for good.

  • Options
    GeoffM said:

    Polruan said:


    Actually, I'm very fond of tim and there's definitely something missing today. And his status as an unpaid solitary enthusiast seems pretty clear.

    For today, we are all tim.

    Speak for yourself, sunshine. I thought the tim troll tag-team were a bunch of twats and hopefully they have fusked off for good.

    I'm with you. Well said.
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    English-Ladies [FA] football could learn summinck about Rugby-Union. All Rugby-Northern kicks do not assure that the "janice-foreigner!" needs to scrum forward...
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    Off-topic:

    England 2-0 up. Against the Turks! [I claim Cypriot heritage: Athena may have been my mother though!]

    Anyhoos, sorry JJ,

    No need to apologise. I'm not Turkish, and we both despise football.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    Suddenly all the energy companies seem to be offering long term fixed deals under standard rate. We didn't get involved in Syria either. Ed does these things for his own political gain, but both are broadly popular.

    Perhaps Ed will be seen as the 'lucky' choice
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited September 2013


    The energy industry also demands guarantees, whether wind farm or nuclear. It's one of the reasons I'm unsure about whether the industry's taking on enough risk on the investment it pours in.

    That's different, though. The energy industry operates in a heavily regulated environment very subject to political interference and with a market rigged by governments. It's not unreasonable in that environment to insist on some guarantee that they won't have the rug pulled from under their feet having invested billions in it. Forgemasters were asking for guarantees on a loan for developing pressure vessels, which one would have thought would be a bankable proposition with venture capitalists.
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    Suddenly all the energy companies seem to be offering long term fixed deals under standard rate. We didn't get involved in Syria either. Ed does these things for his own political gain, but both are broadly popular.

    Perhaps Ed will be seen as the 'lucky' choice

    Are they under standard rate?
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    TOPPING said:

    Smart marketing by nPower: "Why wait for Ed?"

    http://www.npower.com/home/index.htm

    They've been on offer for ages Nick, I organised one a few months ago for an older relative.

    As to the Cons response, ok you heard it here first but there might just not be one. I think that there will be a "known unknown" response at Cons conference - ie something, pretty much analagous to the energy cap, that is in the ballpark but that hadn't been thought of which will be a lightbulb moment for rightists and bring a smile to our face.

    What will it be? Not sure.

    As for EdM and your lot, the narrative, at quite a subconscious level is already dividing those who applaud the shift left from those who are more Blairite. Hence my thought that there will be no direct response from the coalition. The media/mood is doing all they could hope for in bringing into focus the leftwards lurch. No need to gild the lily and they will let it ride.
    Yes, I know, that's why I said smart marketing rather than a direct response. It does put in perspective the horror scenarios over no price rises - there is a specific cost (the difference between this offer and the best offer without the guarantee) and it's not the doomsday-infinity that some comments have suggested.

    Not responding at all is an option - the obvious place to strike back would be fuel prices, another popular cause. The challenge will be to find something that doesn't cost the Treasury money. But I'm sure they'll have a go, and fully expect the polls to be as you were in 2-3 weeks. But the months are ticking away.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Power companies could hedge against price fluctuations in wholesale prices to cover the risky period of the Miliband govt. Like any insurance this would add cost, so a company could put up prices sooner rather than later and cover the period with futures contracts.

    All potentially a nice little earner in the financial derivatives market, those city boys can thank Ed for their bonuses!

    Pulpstar said:

    Suddenly all the energy companies seem to be offering long term fixed deals under standard rate. We didn't get involved in Syria either. Ed does these things for his own political gain, but both are broadly popular.

    Perhaps Ed will be seen as the 'lucky' choice

    Are they under standard rate?
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    PAWPAW Posts: 1,074
    Hi, have I dreamt that Ed intends to decarbonise the country by 2030 - that seems to put a maximum life of 15 years on new gas generation - and does he expect to stop gas central heating as well. Apologies for not reading the whole thread.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited September 2013
    @NickP - If I was advising the Tories, I'd recommend no freebies and no direct response. Labour are (sensibly enough) trying to move the debate away from the deficit, the cuts and the mess they left - a debate they've lost - on to different ground where they can make populist gestures (although as I said last night, why the hell couldn't they find something less damaging to make a populist gesture on?). This is best ignored IMO, except to use it as further evidence that Labour are nowhere near being a serious party of government again. The Conservatives should keep the debate firmly on the ground where they have a big advantage. So, my response would be to emphasise that the tough choices are working, the job is not yet finished, and 'Don't let them wreck it again'.

    The last thing they should do is get into a competition of give-aways.
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    For those missing Wee-Timmy:

    Has SoWo posted since his famous "All populists are popular" post. I hope so....

    If people post on t'Internet then they must accept "t'rough wit' smooth". We all make mistakes: To accept them is about growing-up: To accept them is all about growing-up....

    Most folks mean well: Never feel stupid for posting as a fool! [OGH has TSE for that.... ]
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Pulpstar said:

    Suddenly all the energy companies seem to be offering long term fixed deals under standard rate. We didn't get involved in Syria either. Ed does these things for his own political gain, but both are broadly popular.

    Perhaps Ed will be seen as the 'lucky' choice

    The reason why the UK did not get involved in Syria was that the Russians, Syrians and Iranians believed that Obama was about to launch a military strike. This meant that Obama was able to realise his primary goal of securing the removal of chemical weapons from the Syrian theatre of war by means of diplomatic agreement.

    Lucky for all involved Miliband's dithering and duplicity on Syria did not prevent or even delay Obama realising his goal.

    What Miliband did do though was send a signal to the US and the UK's other NATO and European allies, that the UK is unlikely to be as reliable in support of the international community in the future as it has been in the past.

    I suspect Miliband is now seen to be as big a political liability to Washington as he is to British industry and the press.

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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    Smart marketing by nPower: "Why wait for Ed?"

    http://www.npower.com/home/index.htm

    Oh it's N Power is it? There was me thinking it was BA offering flights out of the country.

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    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Bobajob said:

    Bobajob said:

    Off topic - feel bloody sorry for Richard Barnes. Must be mortifying and the guy has done nothing wrong.

    I'd feel sorry for him, except for the fact he's gone for the 'hacked' defence, which I have little time for. It seems to be becoming a stock excuse for user mistake or incompetence.

    I must admit I checked my phone's settings (*) after the story broke. I bet I'm not the only one ...

    (*) Galaxy S2, so fairly low-end. God, it's depressing to think that something so powerful could in any way be low-end ...
    Whatever, he probably panicked. I find this sort of stuff insidious, technology catching people out. I'd much rather attack the guy for his politics than for a silly mistake that could happen to anyone.

    Could happen to anyone? Do we all take pictures like that? Come on, hands up...
    I can honestly say I never have, but clearly people do and so what if they do? It's pretty puerile putting the bloke through media hell because he made a mistake. I'm not a fan of his politics but I feel for him as a human being. He's done nothing wrong.

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    The Conservatives are going to have an open primary to select their 2015 candidate for Tonbridge and Malling. Kent seems to be good ground for UKIP, it'll be interesting to see if that's reflected in the candidate chosen.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/tonbridgeandmalling/

    http://order-order.com/2013/09/26/open-primary-for-tory-seat-for-life/

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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited September 2013

    For those missing Wee-Timmy:

    Has SoWo posted since his famous "All populists are popular" post. I hope so....

    If people post on t'Internet then they must accept "t'rough wit' smooth". We all make mistakes: To accept them is about growing-up: To accept them is all about growing-up....

    Most folks mean well: Never feel stupid for posting as a fool! [OGH has TSE for that.... ]

    Fluffy

    If tim has decided to move on or take an extended break it will be a sad loss for the site.

    But it will also be understandable.

    As a committed Blairite tim stood by Labour through thick and thin under Brown.

    But even tim's party loyalty will have been stretched to breaking point by Miliband's antics over Syria and the threat his lurch leftwards poses to British Industry and the economy.

    tim is essentially a shy version of Dan Hodges. He is now speaking with his silence.

    We should all show our deepest respect for what must have been a very difficult personal decision.

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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited September 2013

    The Conservatives are going to have an open primary to select their 2015 candidate for Tonbridge and Malling.

    Very interesting - I wonder who is paying for this?

    There was a suggestion that Wealden might hold an open primary to select Charles Hendry's successor, but I don't know whether that will happen. I suspect not but I could be wrong.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,714
    edited September 2013
    I wonder if Boris might be tempted by the new vacancy at Reigate.
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    @NickP - If I was advising the Tories, I'd recommend no freebies and no direct response. Labour are (sensibly enough) trying to move the debate away from the deficit, the cuts and the mess they left - a debate they've lost - on to different ground where they can make populist gestures (although as I said last night, why the hell couldn't they find something less damaging to make a populist gesture on?). This is best ignored IMO, except to use it as further evidence that Labour are nowhere near being a serious party of government again. The Conservatives should keep the debate firmly on the ground where they have a big advantage. So, my response would be to emphasise that the tough choices are working, the job is not yet finished, and 'Don't let them wreck it again'.

    The last thing they should do is get into a competition of give-aways.

    "Think Labour have learnt their lessons since 2010? They haven't learnt since 1976. Price controls, union dominance, rent controls".
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    The Conservatives are going to have an open primary to select their 2015 candidate for Tonbridge and Malling.

    Very interesting - I wonder who is paying for this?

    There was a suggestion that Wealden might hold an open primary to select Charles Hendry's successor, but I don't know whether that will happen. I suspect not but I could be wrong.
    Does it have to be expensive? They call it a primary, but it's a caucus:

    "Invitations to attend the Open Primary will be delivered to tens of thousands of homes. There will be street stalls, posters in shops, leaflets on shop counters - and we will be making a special effort to involve thousands of first time voters in the process.

    If you would like to attend the Open Primary (you do not need to be a Conservative Party member, nor will there will be any charge) you must pre-register. "

    http://www.tmselects.blogspot.co.uk
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,333

    @NickP - If I was advising the Tories, I'd recommend no freebies and no direct response. Labour are (sensibly enough) trying to move the debate away from the deficit, the cuts and the mess they left - a debate they've lost - on to different ground where they can make populist gestures (although as I said last night, why the hell couldn't they find something less damaging to make a populist gesture on?). This is best ignored IMO, except to use it as further evidence that Labour are nowhere near being a serious party of government again. The Conservatives should keep the debate firmly on the ground where they have a big advantage. So, my response would be to emphasise that the tough choices are working, the job is not yet finished, and 'Don't let them wreck it again'.

    The last thing they should do is get into a competition of give-aways.

    They've got to do something. Disappointing as it may be but there is an important 1-3% that will be swayed by a bribe. Expect Ph.I now and Ph.II in 2015.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    AveryLP said:

    For those missing Wee-Timmy:

    Has SoWo posted since his famous "All populists are popular" post. I hope so....

    If people post on t'Internet then they must accept "t'rough wit' smooth". We all make mistakes: To accept them is about growing-up: To accept them is all about growing-up....

    Most folks mean well: Never feel stupid for posting as a fool! [OGH has TSE for that.... ]

    Fluffy

    If tim has decided to move on or take an extended break it will be a sad loss for the site.

    But it will also be understandable.

    As a committed Blairite tim stood by Labour through thick and thin under Brown.

    But even tim's party loyalty will have been stretched to breaking point by Miliband's antics over Syria and the threat his lurch leftwards poses to British Industry and the economy.

    tim is essentially a shy version of Dan Hodges. He is now speaking with his silence.

    We should all show our deepest respect for what must have been a very difficult personal decision.

    Fear not Mr Pole, I will take one for the team and step up to the mark and continually post that Osborne is useless.
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    edited September 2013

    AveryLP said:

    For those missing Wee-Timmy:

    Has SoWo posted since his famous "All populists are popular" post. I hope so....

    If people post on t'Internet then they must accept "t'rough wit' smooth". We all make mistakes: To accept them is about growing-up: To accept them is all about growing-up....

    Most folks mean well: Never feel stupid for posting as a fool! [OGH has TSE for that.... ]

    Fluffy

    If tim has decided to move on or take an extended break it will be a sad loss for the site.

    But it will also be understandable.

    As a committed Blairite tim stood by Labour through thick and thin under Brown.

    But even tim's party loyalty will have been stretched to breaking point by Miliband's antics over Syria and the threat his lurch leftwards poses to British Industry and the economy.

    tim is essentially a shy version of Dan Hodges. He is now speaking with his silence.

    We should all show our deepest respect for what must have been a very difficult personal decision.

    Fear not Mr Pole, I will take one for the team and step up to the mark and continually post that Osborne our Boy George is useless.
    Let me help you with that until you get the hang of it Alan.
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    TOPPING said:

    @NickP - If I was advising the Tories, I'd recommend no freebies and no direct response. Labour are (sensibly enough) trying to move the debate away from the deficit, the cuts and the mess they left - a debate they've lost - on to different ground where they can make populist gestures (although as I said last night, why the hell couldn't they find something less damaging to make a populist gesture on?). This is best ignored IMO, except to use it as further evidence that Labour are nowhere near being a serious party of government again. The Conservatives should keep the debate firmly on the ground where they have a big advantage. So, my response would be to emphasise that the tough choices are working, the job is not yet finished, and 'Don't let them wreck it again'.

    The last thing they should do is get into a competition of give-aways.

    They've got to do something. Disappointing as it may be but there is an important 1-3% that will be swayed by a bribe. Expect Ph.I now and Ph.II in 2015.
    Find something in the way people pay their bills like over/under charging and prepayment meters that is simple and won't cost the taxpayer under any circumstances.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Grandiose said:

    AveryLP said:

    For those missing Wee-Timmy:

    Has SoWo posted since his famous "All populists are popular" post. I hope so....

    If people post on t'Internet then they must accept "t'rough wit' smooth". We all make mistakes: To accept them is about growing-up: To accept them is all about growing-up....

    Most folks mean well: Never feel stupid for posting as a fool! [OGH has TSE for that.... ]

    Fluffy

    If tim has decided to move on or take an extended break it will be a sad loss for the site.

    But it will also be understandable.

    As a committed Blairite tim stood by Labour through thick and thin under Brown.

    But even tim's party loyalty will have been stretched to breaking point by Miliband's antics over Syria and the threat his lurch leftwards poses to British Industry and the economy.

    tim is essentially a shy version of Dan Hodges. He is now speaking with his silence.

    We should all show our deepest respect for what must have been a very difficult personal decision.

    Fear not Mr Pole, I will take one for the team and step up to the mark and continually post that Osborne our Boy George is useless.
    Let me help you with that until you get the hang of it Alan.
    That's a fair observation now I'll have to practice saying "fop" and "master strategist" too. Hmm this could be harder than I thought.
  • Options
    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    AveryLP said:

    For those missing Wee-Timmy:

    Has SoWo posted since his famous "All populists are popular" post. I hope so....

    If people post on t'Internet then they must accept "t'rough wit' smooth". We all make mistakes: To accept them is about growing-up: To accept them is all about growing-up....

    Most folks mean well: Never feel stupid for posting as a fool! [OGH has TSE for that.... ]

    Fluffy

    If tim has decided to move on or take an extended break it will be a sad loss for the site.

    But it will also be understandable.

    As a committed Blairite tim stood by Labour through thick and thin under Brown.

    But even tim's party loyalty will have been stretched to breaking point by Miliband's antics over Syria and the threat his lurch leftwards poses to British Industry and the economy.

    tim is essentially a shy version of Dan Hodges. He is now speaking with his silence.

    We should all show our deepest respect for what must have been a very difficult personal decision.

    Fear not Mr Pole, I will take one for the team and step up to the mark and continually post that Osborne is useless.
    Good man Alan. It's a worthy and stimulating job, and you will never be short of material.

  • Options
    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    TOPPING said:

    @NickP - If I was advising the Tories, I'd recommend no freebies and no direct response. Labour are (sensibly enough) trying to move the debate away from the deficit, the cuts and the mess they left - a debate they've lost - on to different ground where they can make populist gestures (although as I said last night, why the hell couldn't they find something less damaging to make a populist gesture on?). This is best ignored IMO, except to use it as further evidence that Labour are nowhere near being a serious party of government again. The Conservatives should keep the debate firmly on the ground where they have a big advantage. So, my response would be to emphasise that the tough choices are working, the job is not yet finished, and 'Don't let them wreck it again'.

    The last thing they should do is get into a competition of give-aways.

    They've got to do something. Disappointing as it may be but there is an important 1-3% that will be swayed by a bribe. Expect Ph.I now and Ph.II in 2015.
    I'm expecting a tax cut. Which is needed - I'm paying marginal rates of 60%+ thanks to Ozzy's ineptitude over CB.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    @BaJ

    "and you will never be short of material."

    that's just so depressing a thought :-(
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    For those missing Wee-Timmy:

    Has SoWo posted since his famous "All populists are popular" post. I hope so....

    If people post on t'Internet then they must accept "t'rough wit' smooth". We all make mistakes: To accept them is about growing-up: To accept them is all about growing-up....

    Most folks mean well: Never feel stupid for posting as a fool! [OGH has TSE for that.... ]

    Fluffy

    If tim has decided to move on or take an extended break it will be a sad loss for the site.

    But it will also be understandable.

    As a committed Blairite tim stood by Labour through thick and thin under Brown.

    But even tim's party loyalty will have been stretched to breaking point by Miliband's antics over Syria and the threat his lurch leftwards poses to British Industry and the economy.

    tim is essentially a shy version of Dan Hodges. He is now speaking with his silence.

    We should all show our deepest respect for what must have been a very difficult personal decision.

    Fear not Mr Pole, I will take one for the team and step up to the mark and continually post that Osborne is useless.
    Only Brasenose College has reason to fear Manchester University, Mr. Brooke.
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    SeanT said:

    NB PB Mods, I'm not trying to anschluss yr bandwidth, what is it with the photos that embed? Should we just not post links to photos?

    Hi Sean, it's a default/upgrade with Vanilla, we'd prefer if you didn't post a link to the actual tweet, just posted the the contents of the tweet, and the link to the picture, for example, like this

    sean thomas knox ‏@thomasknox 8h

    To explain. I have been put in a lovely new villa, in the middle of nowhere, on my own. I will be scared in luxury.

    pic.twitter.com/78DYeDuU8V
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Hmm this could be harder than I thought.

    I don't see why. Including random sea-creatures should also fill plenty of space.

    The references don't have to be relevant to anything either, it seems, which you'll quickly find to be a bonus.

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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Five Conservative backbenchers outline what they want from their party before 2015. http://polho.me/14MdNgT
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    Rennard not to face charges:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24290804

    CH4 featured one of the original complainants who hoped this would now mean the Lib Dems got on with their own inquiry....
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    Bobajob said:

    TOPPING said:

    @NickP - If I was advising the Tories, I'd recommend no freebies and no direct response. Labour are (sensibly enough) trying to move the debate away from the deficit, the cuts and the mess they left - a debate they've lost - on to different ground where they can make populist gestures (although as I said last night, why the hell couldn't they find something less damaging to make a populist gesture on?). This is best ignored IMO, except to use it as further evidence that Labour are nowhere near being a serious party of government again. The Conservatives should keep the debate firmly on the ground where they have a big advantage. So, my response would be to emphasise that the tough choices are working, the job is not yet finished, and 'Don't let them wreck it again'.

    The last thing they should do is get into a competition of give-aways.

    They've got to do something. Disappointing as it may be but there is an important 1-3% that will be swayed by a bribe. Expect Ph.I now and Ph.II in 2015.
    I'm expecting a tax cut. Which is needed - I'm paying marginal rates of 60%+ thanks to Ozzy's ineptitude over CB.
    Perhaps Centrica can pay your child benefit. It's hard to work out which is a less deserving cause.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    @Avery

    piffle Mr Pole, the Oxonian inability to equip its students for real life never ceases to amaze. The poverty of the education in politics, philosopy and economics at Oxford can be seen in giving Jacqui Smith a certificate saying she satisfies the faculty's standards for a graduate.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    SeanT said:

    Significant lack of vigorous debate here. Is someone missing?

    We agreed to all vote Labour while you were in the air. tim got bored and headed off to ConHome to convert them too.

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Perhaps tim is suffering a brown out and lost the power in his pencil. Or possibly he is overwhelmed by customers in the offie buying champers to toast Osborne in thanks for his magnificent management of the economy.

    I hope he has not gone completely. He owes me a pint if more than 50 000 Romanians and Bulgarians arrive in the UK when free movement becomes possible.

    If you need to spark up an argument then perhaps winding up the Scotch will suffice until tim returns to the scene of his crimes.
    SeanT said:

    Significant lack of vigorous debate here. Is someone missing?

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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Hmmm. Gove on QT or early to bed to finish 'Power Trip'... *torn*
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    RedRag1RedRag1 Posts: 527
    Not been on for quite a few hours and I see Tim is one of the hot topics of conversation.

    *** Waves to Tim ***
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    Carola said:

    Hmmm. Gove on QT or early to bed to finish 'Power Trip'... *torn*

    Power trip - I read it in its entirety yesterday,
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    RedRag1RedRag1 Posts: 527
    Andy_JS said:

    I wonder if Boris might be tempted by the new vacancy at Reigate.

    If he did can you imagine the internal fighting in the Tory Party. Cameron would be running round like a headless chicken as paranoid as can be wondering who will be the stalking horse.
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    New thread
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    RedRag1RedRag1 Posts: 527
    welshowl said:

    Smart marketing by nPower: "Why wait for Ed?"

    http://www.npower.com/home/index.htm

    Oh it's N Power is it? There was me thinking it was BA offering flights out of the country.

    I like it. Keeps the policy in public view.
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    I'm beginning to think that Miliband's speech was the worst by a party leader in British political history. Even the Quiet Man didn't set in motion a tidal wave of Wilson/Sunny Jim anti-nostalgia to sweep across the country. At best Miliband is going to get blamed for every energy price hike between now and 2015; at worst he'll be remembered as the man who turned Britain into a business pariah state. Poor show!
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    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Suddenly all the energy companies seem to be offering long term fixed deals under standard rate. We didn't get involved in Syria either. Ed does these things for his own political gain, but both are broadly popular.hi

    Perhaps Ed will be seen as the 'lucky' choice

    The reason why the UK did not get involved in Syria was that the Russians, Syrians and Iranians believed that Obama was about to launch a military strike. This meant that Obama was able to realise his primary goal of securing the removal of chemical weapons from the Syrian theatre of war by means of diplomatic agreement.

    Lucky for all involved Miliband's dithering and duplicity on Syria did not prevent or even delay Obama realising his goal.

    What Miliband did do though was send a signal to the US and the UK's other NATO and European allies, that the UK is unlikely to be as reliable in support of the international community in the future as it has been in the past.

    I suspect Miliband is now seen to be as big a political liability to Washington as he is to British industry and the press.

    Sorry for the delay, just been reading through the comments.

    Er! The one in deep doodoo with the POTUS and other governments is our own dearly beloved PM. He lead the unnecessary charge by bringing back Parliament early and then ballsed it up by losing the vote.

    Check out the photos and videos from Moscow (G whatever) just after. Cameron in second row of group picture plus being ignored by both Obama and Putin. While most of the other leaders are just keeping out of his way.

    I take it you didn't realise that our totally unbiased and free media had suddenly gone quiet over reporting the event.

This discussion has been closed.