The compromise on the customs union question is obvious and is apparently going to be taken. Britain will remain in something that is substantially the customs union for a time-limited and potentially renewable period while the zealots use the time to do extra Charms classes at Hogwarts to come up with a magical solution.
So the UK will end up in position in which it continues to suffer most of the disadvantages of EU membership but enjoys few of the advantages. The exact opposite of the prospectus offered by Leave at the referendum.
Yup: if this is really what is on offer we may as well stay in.
Indeed but Leavers are obsessives, any politician who proposed that would get Jo Cox’d.
Is the toxic environment we live.
Far better we Leave and if people see it is a disaster we rejoin on worse terms than we currently have.
Joining the Euro might be the ultimate legacy of Farage, Gove, and Boris.
Hmm, haven’t some been arguing we should stay in?
Yes, but talk is cheap, the ones who deliver it will be the ones accused of treason.
So they would only be “Jo Cox’d” if they went through with it? Hmmm.
I like to think that they would simply get demolished at the ballot box.
The far right is on the rise once again in the UK.
Sadly.
You are referring to the rise in reported hate crime? Electorally, I see no evidence of this.
No. I’m taking about the arrests/trials of members of National Action, Britain First, and the EDL.
The compromise on the customs union question is obvious and is apparently going to be taken. Britain will remain in something that is substantially the customs union for a time-limited and potentially renewable period while the zealots use the time to do extra Charms classes at Hogwarts to come up with a magical solution.
So the UK will end up in position in which it continues to suffer most of the disadvantages of EU membership but enjoys few of the advantages. The exact opposite of the prospectus offered by Leave at the referendum.
Yup: if this is really what is on offer we may as well stay in.
Indeed but Leavers are obsessives, any politician who proposed that would get Jo Cox’d.
Is the toxic environment we live.
Far better we Leave and if people see it is a disaster we rejoin on worse terms than we currently have.
Joining the Euro might be the ultimate legacy of Farage, Gove, and Boris.
Hmm, haven’t some been arguing we should stay in?
Yes, but talk is cheap, the ones who deliver it will be the ones accused of treason.
So they would only be “Jo Cox’d” if they went through with it? Hmmm.
I like to think that they would simply get demolished at the ballot box.
Despite the "project fear" about civil unrest, what's the democratic argument against a referendum between the deal and Remain as long as it's accepted that the deal represents an earnest attempt to negotiation the best withdrawal terms?
The EU would no doubt push for the worst terms possible to ensure they won the second round. And the idea that Leave would get another shot had Remain won is fanciful.
Agree on the first, but I think another EU referendum would have been inevitable if the first had been won 52:48 by Remain. The EU will be constantly changing to accommodate the issues with the Eurozone. That made another referendum almost inevitable.
Yeah, in the medium/long term. At some point we’d have been compelled to join the Euro or leave.
The compromise on the customs union question is obvious and is apparently going to be taken. Britain will remain in something that is substantially the customs union for a time-limited and potentially renewable period while the zealots use the time to do extra Charms classes at Hogwarts to come up with a magical solution.
Even the Guardian admit he said it won’t be easy in practice. It should be easy because the UK is in full alignment with EU law and regulations.
Indeed it seems hard to disagree with this:
However, he went on to concede that securing a deal would probably not be easy in practice. “The only reason that we wouldn’t come to a free and open agreement is because politics gets in the way of economics,” Fox said.
The compromise on the customs union question is obvious and is apparently going to be taken. Britain will remain in something that is substantially the customs union for a time-limited and potentially renewable period while the zealots use the time to do extra Charms classes at Hogwarts to come up with a magical solution.
So the UK will end up in position in which it continues to suffer most of the disadvantages of EU membership but enjoys few of the advantages. The exact opposite of the prospectus offered by Leave at the referendum.
Yup: if this is really what is on offer we may as well stay in.
Indeed but Leavers are obsessives, any politician who proposed that would get Jo Cox’d.
Is the toxic environment we live.
Far better we Leave and if people see it is a disaster we rejoin on worse terms than we currently have.
Joining the Euro might be the ultimate legacy of Farage, Gove, and Boris.
Hmm, haven’t some been arguing we should stay in?
Yes, but talk is cheap, the ones who deliver it will be the ones accused of treason.
So they would only be “Jo Cox’d” if they went through with it? Hmmm.
I like to think that they would simply get demolished at the ballot box.
Despite the "project fear" about civil unrest, what's the democratic argument against a referendum between the deal and Remain as long as it's accepted that the deal represents an earnest attempt to negotiation the best withdrawal terms?
The EU would no doubt push for the worst terms possible to ensure they won the second round. And the idea that Leave would get another shot had Remain won is fanciful.
Agree on the first, but I think another EU referendum would have been inevitable if the first had been won 52:48 by Remain. The EU will be constantly changing to accommodate the issues with the Eurozone. That made another referendum almost inevitable.
Additionally the domestic political dynamics would probably have heavily favoured it. That's why all sorts of people from Boris to Farage were hoping to be on the losing side of a close Remain win for their own reasons.
The compromise on the customs union question is obvious and is apparently going to be taken. Britain will remain in something that is substantially the customs union for a time-limited and potentially renewable period while the zealots use the time to do extra Charms classes at Hogwarts to come up with a magical solution.
So the UK will end up in position in which it continues to suffer most of the disadvantages of EU membership but enjoys few of the advantages. The exact opposite of the prospectus offered by Leave at the referendum.
Yup: if this is really what is on offer we may as well stay in.
Indeed but Leavers are obsessives, any politician who proposed that would get Jo Cox’d.
Is the toxic environment we live.
Far better we Leave and if people see it is a disaster we rejoin on worse terms than we currently have.
Joining the Euro might be the ultimate legacy of Farage, Gove, and Boris.
Hmm, haven’t some been arguing we should stay in?
Yes, but talk is cheap, the ones who deliver it will be the ones accused of treason.
So they would only be “Jo Cox’d” if they went through with it? Hmmm.
I like to think that they would simply get demolished at the ballot box.
The far right is on the rise once again in the UK.
Sadly.
You are referring to the rise in reported hate crime? Electorally, I see no evidence of this.
No. I’m taking about the arrests/trials of members of National Action, Britain First, and the EDL.
That doesn't make them on the rise. If you want to see the far right on the rise look across the EU and across the Atlantic where they're getting elected rather than simply tried for breaking the law (which has always happened).
How long until it all becomes ancient history? Presumably you have no problem being in a political union with a country that dropped bombs on us and killed thousands of our people.
And what about Dresden? Are we guiltless?
Basil Fawlty: Is there something wrong? German Guest: Will you stop talking about the war? Basil Fawlty: Me? You started it. German Guest: We did not! Basil Fawlty: Yes, you did. You invaded Poland!
On a related matter, is anyone going to tonight's Dambusters 75th anniversary gala screening at the Albert Hall or (like me) a live screening at this local cinema? Looking forward to the spanking new 4k digital print.
PB Tories continue to reminisce about a past none of them are old enough to have known.
The endless nostalgia for wartime derring-do is ridiculous, and what's more it is not the way in which those who actually lived through it would behave. I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s when anyone much over 30 could remember the war but there was far less talk of it at that time than there is today. I cannot remember any form of remembrance ceremony at school, the older generation regarded the war as a terrible experience best left in the past and few ever spoke of it. We could do well to follow that example today.
Indeed. My mother was born in 1927 and was a teenager in the war. I remember when growing up there was a long running series about WW2, 'All Our Yesterdays'.
She always turned off the TV as soon as the theme tune started up, saying 'we don't want to see all that again'.
I remember watching Jeremy Isaacs's seminal TV series World at War as a teenager. But my parents would never watch it.
Our car was stopped along the Swiss-French border. Only for a cursory inspection of the booth.
One of my favourite examples of Swiss efficiency was a friend who travelled to France to buy a turkey at a time when (unbeknownst to him) the Swiss were banning turkey imports due to a health scare - he routinely bought food in France because it was cheaper.
At the border, the Swiss asked if he was carrying any poultry, and he said yes. They told him he couldn't bring it in and therefore had a choice of throwing it away or turning back into France.
He thought about it, turned back, and drove 40 km to the next border post, this time hiding the turkey in the boot under a pile of clothes. He drove up to the border and said cheerfully "Nothing to declare". The Swiss customs official smiled delphically: "And what about the turkey, sir?"
That said, there have always been border posts that are only enforced by roving spot checks a kilometer or two inland.
I once turned up at a car ferry in France, in a two-seater car, coming back to the UK to be asked by the French customs officer: "Just the two of you travelling is it, sir?"
The compromise on the customs union question is obvious and is apparently going to be taken. Britain will remain in something that is substantially the customs union for a time-limited and potentially renewable period while the zealots use the time to do extra Charms classes at Hogwarts to come up with a magical solution.
So the UK will end up in position in which it continues to suffer most of the disadvantages of EU membership but enjoys few of the advantages. The exact opposite of the prospectus offered by Leave at the referendum.
Yup: if this is really what is on offer we may as well stay in.
Indeed but Leavers are obsessives, any politician who proposed that would get Jo Cox’d.
Is the toxic environment we live.
Far better we Leave and if people see it is a disaster we rejoin on worse terms than we currently have.
Joining the Euro might be the ultimate legacy of Farage, Gove, and Boris.
Hmm, haven’t some been arguing we should stay in?
Yes, but talk is cheap, the ones who deliver it will be the ones accused of treason.
So they would only be “Jo Cox’d” if they went through with it? Hmmm.
I like to think that they would simply get demolished at the ballot box.
Despite the "project fear" about civil unrest, what's the democratic argument against a referendum between the deal and Remain as long as it's accepted that the deal represents an earnest attempt to negotiation the best withdrawal terms?
The EU would no doubt push for the worst terms possible to ensure they won the second round. And the idea that Leave would get another shot had Remain won is fanciful.
Agree on the first, but I think another EU referendum would have been inevitable if the first had been won 52:48 by Remain. The EU will be constantly changing to accommodate the issues with the Eurozone. That made another referendum almost inevitable.
Additionally the domestic political dynamics would probably have heavily favoured it. That's why all sorts of people from Boris to Farage were hoping to be on the losing side of a close Remain win for their own reasons.
Boris maybe, but you really think Farage wanted to lose the referendum?
The compromise on the customs union question is obvious and is apparently going to be taken. Britain will remain in something that is substantially the customs union for a time-limited and potentially renewable period while the zealots use the time to do extra Charms classes at Hogwarts to come up with a magical solution.
So the UK will end up in position in which it continues to suffer most of the disadvantages of EU membership but enjoys few of the advantages. The exact opposite of the prospectus offered by Leave at the referendum.
Yup: if this is really what is on offer we may as well stay in.
Indeed but Leavers are obsessives, any politician who proposed that would get Jo Cox’d.
Is the toxic environment we live.
Far better we Leave and if people see it is a disaster we rejoin on worse terms than we currently have.
Joining the Euro might be the ultimate legacy of Farage, Gove, and Boris.
Hmm, haven’t some been arguing we should stay in?
Yes, but talk is cheap, the ones who deliver it will be the ones accused of treason.
So they would only be “Jo Cox’d” if they went through with it? Hmmm.
I like to think that they would simply get demolished at the ballot box.
Despite the "project fear" about civil unrest, what's the democratic argument against a reftiation the best withdrawal terms?
The EU would no doubt push for the worst terms possible to ensure they won the second round. And the idea that Leave would get another shot had Remain won is fanciful.
Agree on the first, but I think another EU referendum would have been inevitable if the first had been won 52:48 by Remain. The EU will be constantly changing to accommodate the issues with the Eurozone. That made another referendum almost inevitable.
Additionally the domestic political dynamics would probably have heavily favoured it. That's why all sorts of people from Boris to Farage were hoping to be on the losing side of a close Remain win for their own reasons.
Boris maybe, but you really think Farage wanted to lose the referendum?
There was a young man named Farage Who one day got stuck in his garage He campaigned so hard But let down his guard And fell to an electoral barrage.
How long until it all becomes ancient history? Presumably you have no problem being in a political union with a country that dropped bombs on us and killed thousands of our people.
And what about Dresden? Are we guiltless?
Basil Fawlty: Is there something wrong? German Guest: Will you stop talking about the war? Basil Fawlty: Me? You started it. German Guest: We did not! Basil Fawlty: Yes, you did. You invaded Poland!
On a related matter, is anyone going to tonight's Dambusters 75th anniversary gala screening at the Albert Hall or (like me) a live screening at this local cinema? Looking forward to the spanking new 4k digital print.
PB Tories continue to reminisce about a past none of them are old enough to have known.
The endless nostalgia for wartime derring-do is ridiculous, and what's more it is not the way in which those who actually lived through it would behave. I grew up in the 1960s and 1970s when anyone much over 30 could remember the war but there was far less talk of it at that time than there is today. I cannot remember any form of remembrance ceremony at school, the older generation regarded the war as a terrible experience best left in the past and few ever spoke of it. We could do well to follow that example today.
Indeed. My mother was born in 1927 and was a teenager in the war. I remember when growing up there was a long running series about WW2, 'All Our Yesterdays'.
She always turned off the TV as soon as the theme tune started up, saying 'we don't want to see all that again'.
I remember watching Jeremy Isaacs's seminal TV series World at War as a teenager. But my parents would never watch it.
They still show it in "Yesterday" Channel - they showed the Leningrad episode on Tuesday night.
The compromise on the customs union question is obvious and is apparently going to be taken. Britain will remain in something that is substantially the customs union for a time-limited and potentially renewable period while the zealots use the time to do extra Charms classes at Hogwarts to come up with a magical solution.
So the UK will end up in position in which it continues to suffer most of the disadvantages of EU membership but enjoys few of the advantages. The exact opposite of the prospectus offered by Leave at the referendum.
Yup: if this is really what is on offer we may as well stay in.
Indeed but Leavers are obsessives, any politician who proposed that would get Jo Cox’d.
Is the toxic environment we live.
Far better we Leave and if people see it is a disaster we rejoin on worse terms than we currently have.
Joining the Euro might be the ultimate legacy of Farage, Gove, and Boris.
Hmm, haven’t some been arguing we should stay in?
Yes, but talk is cheap, the ones who deliver it will be the ones accused of treason.
So they would only be “Jo Cox’d” if they went through with it? Hmmm.
I like to think that they would simply get demolished at the ballot box.
The far right is on the rise once again in the UK.
Sadly.
You are referring to the rise in reported hate crime? Electorally, I see no evidence of this.
No. I’m taking about the arrests/trials of members of National Action, Britain First, and the EDL.
Isn’t the EDL like the BNP these days, pretty much nonexistent? I was under the impression Britain first became the home to some of the EDL racists and nutters, but none of this was on the scale of when the BNP were winning council and EU parliament seats and EDL attracted significant numbers for a dust up every other weekend.
All the clips of Britain first I have seen, there never seems to be more than a coach load at most.
The compromise on the customs union question is obvious and is apparently going to be taken. Britain will remain in something that is substantially the customs union for a time-limited and potentially renewable period while the zealots use the time to do extra Charms classes at Hogwarts to come up with a magical solution.
So the UK will end up in position in which it continues to suffer most of the disadvantages of EU membership but enjoys few of the advantages. The exact opposite of the prospectus offered by Leave at the referendum.
Yup: if this is really what is on offer we may as well stay in.
Indeed but Leavers are obsessives, any politician who proposed that would get Jo Cox’d.
Is the toxic environment we live.
Far better we Leave and if people see it is a disaster we rejoin on worse terms than we currently have.
Joining the Euro might be the ultimate legacy of Farage, Gove, and Boris.
Hmm, haven’t some been arguing we should stay in?
Yes, but talk is cheap, the ones who deliver it will be the ones accused of treason.
So they would only be “Jo Cox’d” if they went through with it? Hmmm.
I like to think that they would simply get demolished at the ballot box.
Despite the "project fear" about civil unrest, what's the democratic argument against a referendum between the deal and Remain as long as it's accepted that the deal represents an earnest attempt to negotiation the best withdrawal terms?
The EU would no doubt push for the worst terms possible to ensure they won the second round. And the idea that Leave would get another shot had Remain won is fanciful.
Agree on the first, but I think another EU referendum would have been inevitable if the first had been won 52:48 by Remain. The EU will be constantly changing to accommodate the issues with the Eurozone. That made another referendum almost inevitable.
Additionally the domestic political dynamics would probably have heavily favoured it. That's why all sorts of people from Boris to Farage were hoping to be on the losing side of a close Remain win for their own reasons.
Boris maybe, but you really think Farage wanted to lose the referendum?
He could have remained (!) an MEP. He does like money.
@Nemtynakht I voted remain and agree with a lot of Gardenwalker points. However, I honestly don't think you could call the EU democratic. We have a voice but the cost of the other benefits is a lack of democracy.
The other point I will make is that if you have a minimum wage somewhere North of Birmingham you are not likely feeling a great deal of the benefits. I hear it repeatedly said that people wouldn't vote to make themselves worse off, and in response I note the number of Labour voting ABC1 types in last years election.
_
It's hard to argue an arrangement where you take the rules from the EU or the US is more democratic than membership where your elected government has a direct say and vote and where you can directly elect a, representative. Nevertheless there is an issue, not just in the UK, with.an institution that is seen as remote and which tends to fall back on legalism.
One of the sad ironies of Brexit is those left behind voting for.an arrangement that is guaranteed to leave them further adrift.
Mr. Glenn, given the Lords et al. deliberately trying to frustrate, dilute and deny our departure, it's hardly knots, rather, an observance of reality that the political class (or a very large chunk of it) places higher importance on the EU than the UK electorate.
Mr. Glenn, given the Lords et al. deliberately trying to frustrate, dilute and deny our departure, it's hardly knots, rather, an observance of reality that the political class (or a very large chunk of it) places higher importance on the EU than the UK electorate.
He could have remained (!) an MEP. He does like money.
If Remain had won UKIP would still have a cause and the Leaver fantasy world of a simple, cost-free Brexit would still be electorally potent. Farage is an oppositionist - he would have been much happier in those circumstances.
The compromise on the customs union question is obvious and is apparently going to be taken. Britain will remain in something that is substantially the customs union for a time-limited and potentially renewable period while the zealots use the time to do extra Charms classes at Hogwarts to come up with a magical solution.
So the UK will end up in position in which it continues to suffer most of the disadvantages of EU membership but enjoys few of the advantages. The exact opposite of the prospectus offered by Leave at the referendum.
Yup: if this is really what is on offer we may as well stay in.
Indeed but Leavers are obsessives, any politician who proposed that would get Jo Cox’d.
Is the toxic environment we live.
Far better we Leave and if people see it is a disaster we rejoin on worse terms than we currently have.
Joining the Euro might be the ultimate legacy of Farage, Gove, and Boris.
Hmm, haven’t some been arguing we should stay in?
Yes, but talk is cheap, the ones who deliver it will be the ones accused of treason.
So they would only be “Jo Cox’d” if they went through with it? Hmmm.
I like to think that they would simply get demolished at the ballot box.
The far right is on the rise once again in the UK.
Sadly.
You are referring to the rise in reported hate crime? Electorally, I see no evidence of this.
No. I’m taking about the arrests/trials of members of National Action, Britain First, and the EDL.
Isn’t the EDL like the BNP these days, pretty much nonexistent? I was under the impression Britain first became the home to some of the EDL racists and nutters, but none of this was on the scale of when the BNP were winning council and EU parliament seats and EDL attracted significant numbers for a dust up every other weekend.
All the clips of Britain first I have seen, there never seems to be more than a coach load at most.
The EDL keep on morphing into the Football Lads’ Alliance, which they say is solely for ordinary football fans.
For some reason they aren’t keen on an ordinary football fan like me turning up.
Tommy Robinson also likes the current UKIP leader who wants Muslims to sign a charter.
He could have remained (!) an MEP. He does like money.
If Remain had won UKIP would still have a cause and the Leaver fantasy world of a simple, cost-free Brexit would still be electorally potent. Farage is an oppositionist - he would have been much happier in those circumstances.
I don't claim to know the man, but I find that very hard to believe.
The compromise on the customs union question is obvious and is apparently going to be taken. Britain will remain in something that is substantially the customs union for a time-limited and potentially renewable period while the zealots use the time to do extra Charms classes at Hogwarts to come up with a magical solution.
So the UK will end up in position in which it continues to suffer most of the disadvantages of EU membership but enjoys few of the advantages. The exact opposite of the prospectus offered by Leave at the referendum.
Yup: if this is really what is on offer we may as well stay in.
Indeed but Leavers are obsessives, any politician who proposed that would get Jo Cox’d.
Is the toxic environment we live.
Far better we Leave and if people see it is a disaster we rejoin on worse terms than we currently have.
Joining the Euro might be the ultimate legacy of Farage, Gove, and Boris.
Hmm, haven’t some been arguing we should stay in?
Yes, but talk is cheap, the ones who deliver it will be the ones accused of treason.
So they would only be “Jo Cox’d” if they went through with it? Hmmm.
I like to think that they would simply get demolished at the ballot box.
Despite the "project fear" about civil unrest, what's the democratic argument against a referendum between the deal and Remain as long as it's accepted that the deal represents an earnest attempt to negotiation the best withdrawal terms?
The EU would no doubt push for the worst terms possible to ensure they won the second round. And the idea that Leave would get another shot had Remain won is fanciful.
Agree on the first, but I think another EU referendum would have been inevitable if the first had been won 52:48 by Remain. The EU will be constantly changing to accommodate the issues with the Eurozone. That made another referendum almost inevitable.
Yeah, in the medium/long term. At some point we’d have been compelled to join the Euro or leave.
And how would that have worked exactly? The EU Commission would have drafted a memo with an ultimatum? And the EU parliament would have backed it up? Seems pretty unlikely.
How come Micky Fab MP is getting into trouble for thinking that twat and twit mean the same thing? As far as I know they both usually mean idiot, although twat is perhaps a slightly stronger word than twit. Maybe there's a new meaning I'm not aware of.
The EDL keep on morphing into the Football Lads’ Alliance, which they say is solely fo some reason they aren’t keen on an ordinary football fan like me turning up.
I am guessing it is just because you don’t like watching matches from the pleb seats ;-)
How come Micky Fab MP is getting into trouble for thinking that twat and twit mean the same thing? As far as I know they both usually mean idiot, although twat is perhaps a slightly stronger word than twit. Maybe there's a new meaning I'm not aware of.
The EDL keep on morphing into the Football Lads’ Alliance, which they say is solely fo some reason they aren’t keen on an ordinary football fan like me turning up.
I am guessing it is just because you don’t like watching matches from the pleb seats ;-)
I think it is because there's a lack of Sergio Tacchini, Fred Perry, and Burberry in my wardrobe.
Additionally the domestic political dynamics would probably have heavily favoured it. That's why all sorts of people from Boris to Farage were hoping to be on the losing side of a close Remain win for their own reasons.
Boris maybe, but you really think Farage wanted to lose the referendum? Sort of ... yes.
I do feel like he wanted to win it but his way. He'd rather have lost it than won it the way it was run (by others not him and less focused on migration etc).
The Football Lads Alliance, the group behind marches against what they call “Islamist extremists”, uses a secret Facebook page full of violent, racist and misogynistic posts, targeting Sadiq Khan and Diane Abbott, as well as playing down the crimes of the Finsbury Park mosque attacker, Darren Osborne.
The Observer has gained access to the FLA’s 65,000-strong Facebook group in the run-up to its planned march “against extremism” in Birmingham on 24 March, which anti-racists fear could be the UK’s biggest ever Islamophobic mobilisation.
The page, which is invite-only and monitored by a team of administrators, states the FLA are “not fascist thugs” but includes posts by members calling for Khan, London’s first Muslim mayor, to be “hanged” and for Abbott, Britain’s first black female MP, to be “run over”. There are also posts claiming mosque attacker Osborne is a “scapegoat” and suggesting he was right to plot to kill Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn.
The EDL keep on morphing into the Football Lads’ Alliance, which they say is solely fo some reason they aren’t keen on an ordinary football fan like me turning up.
I am guessing it is just because you don’t like watching matches from the pleb seats ;-)
I think it is because there's a lack of Sergio Tacchini, Fred Perry, and Burberry in my wardrobe.
Not down with hooligan fashion, is Hackett now not cool?
How come Micky Fab MP is getting into trouble for thinking that twat and twit mean the same thing? As far as I know they both usually mean idiot, although twat is perhaps a slightly stronger word than twit. Maybe there's a new meaning I'm not aware of.
Twat has a much older anatomical meaning.
Mr Fabricant must be either naive or saintly to have got to the age of 50-60 without knowing all the rude words in the English language.
I do feel like he wanted to win it but his way. He'd rather have lost it than won it the way it was run (by others not him and less focused on migration etc).
I think the blockquotes got buggered, that was william's reply.
How come Micky Fab MP is getting into trouble for thinking that twat and twit mean the same thing? As far as I know they both usually mean idiot, although twat is perhaps a slightly stronger word than twit. Maybe there's a new meaning I'm not aware of.
Am told that tw@ is also the name for a lady's genitalia.
The EDL keep on morphing into the Football Lads’ Alliance, which they say is solely fo some reason they aren’t keen on an ordinary football fan like me turning up.
I am guessing it is just because you don’t like watching matches from the pleb seats ;-)
I think it is because there's a lack of Sergio Tacchini, Fred Perry, and Burberry in my wardrobe.
Not down with hooligan fashion, is Hackett now not cool?
Mr. Meeks, the Lords have voted to keep us in the customs union and to scrap the departure date. You silly sausage.
Edited extra bit: if anyone wants to spend 50p on silly odds bets, Perez can be had at 1301 each way for the win in Monaco (with boost), Alonso 376, likewise. Pays out fifth the odds top 3.
Unlikely, as it's less chaotic than Azerbaijan usually, but Perez has a good record there and the Force India was relatively good in Azerbaijan. Anyway, pence rather than pounds, but thought I'd mention it.
I see, the same people who are making it impossible for children to use words like pussycat want the most obcene interpretation of every word to be the one that first comes to mind. What wonderful progress.
We need high standards of moral hygiene.
Somebody needs to think of the children. Why won't anyone think of the children?
The EDL keep on morphing into the Football Lads’ Alliance, which they say is solely fo some reason they aren’t keen on an ordinary football fan like me turning up.
I am guessing it is just because you don’t like watching matches from the pleb seats ;-)
I think it is because there's a lack of Sergio Tacchini, Fred Perry, and Burberry in my wardrobe.
That sounds a bit 80s old-school Casual. You can add Kappa jackets, Pringle jumpers and white Puma trainers to the list.
Disclosure: I was never a member of the NME / Gremlins
The EDL keep on morphing into the Football Lads’ Alliance, which they say is solely fo some reason they aren’t keen on an ordinary football fan like me turning up.
I am guessing it is just because you don’t like watching matches from the pleb seats ;-)
I think it is because there's a lack of Sergio Tacchini, Fred Perry, and Burberry in my wardrobe.
That sounds a bit 80s old-school Casual. You can add Kappa jackets, Pringle jumpers and white Puma trainers to the list.
Disclosure: I was never a member of the NME / Gremlins
The EDL keep on morphing into the Football Lads’ Alliance, which they say is solely fo some reason they aren’t keen on an ordinary football fan like me turning up.
I am guessing it is just because you don’t like watching matches from the pleb seats ;-)
I think it is because there's a lack of Sergio Tacchini, Fred Perry, and Burberry in my wardrobe.
That sounds a bit 80s old-school Casual. You can add Kappa jackets, Pringle jumpers and white Puma trainers to the list.
Disclosure: I was never a member of the NME / Gremlins
Every so often the EDL have a protest/rally in Piccadilly Gardens, I've had the pleasure of seeing them up close and personal, it is clear they and I shop in the different circles.
I'm gonna cry if they start wearing Hugo Boss, Ralph Lauren, Prada, Gucci, Salvatore Ferragamo, and LV.
Mr. Meeks, the Lords have voted to keep us in the customs union and to scrap the departure date. You silly sausage.
That doesn't begin to justify your paranoid ravings. Those are votes you dislike. They do not justify attacking the collective integrity of the House of Lords.
The EDL keep on morphing into the Football Lads’ Alliance, which they say is solely fo some reason they aren’t keen on an ordinary football fan like me turning up.
I am guessing it is just because you don’t like watching matches from the pleb seats ;-)
I think it is because there's a lack of Sergio Tacchini, Fred Perry, and Burberry in my wardrobe.
That sounds a bit 80s old-school Casual. You can add Kappa jackets, Pringle jumpers and white Puma trainers to the list.
Disclosure: I was never a member of the NME / Gremlins
Every so often the EDL have a protest/rally in Piccadilly Gardens, I've had the pleasure of seeing them up close and personal, it is clear they and I shop in the different circles.
I'm gonna cry if they start wearing Hugo Boss, Ralph Lauren, Prada, Gucci, Salvatore Ferragamo, and LV.
I'm sure Hugo Boss is a casuals brand.
And let's just say they have a 'legacy' that may have a certain appeal to those on the far-right.
Mr. Meeks, we voted to leave the EU. The Lords decided that they wanted the EU to determine our trade policy. Could you explain how that is not seeking to dilute our departure, and how the Lords voting to scrap an exit date is not seeking to thwart it?
The EDL keep on morphing into the Football Lads’ Alliance, which they say is solely fo some reason they aren’t keen on an ordinary football fan like me turning up.
I am guessing it is just because you don’t like watching matches from the pleb seats ;-)
I think it is because there's a lack of Sergio Tacchini, Fred Perry, and Burberry in my wardrobe.
That sounds a bit 80s old-school Casual. You can add Kappa jackets, Pringle jumpers and white Puma trainers to the list.
Disclosure: I was never a member of the NME / Gremlins
Every so often the EDL have a protest/rally in Piccadilly Gardens, I've had the pleasure of seeing them up close and personal, it is clear they and I shop in the different circles.
I'm gonna cry if they start wearing Hugo Boss, Ralph Lauren, Prada, Gucci, Salvatore Ferragamo, and LV.
I'm sure Hugo Boss is a casuals brand.
And let's just say they have a 'legacy' that may have a certain appeal to those on the far-right.
Stone Island began to be popular because its logo was the same as the British Movement, not that I imagine (m)any know who or what the British Movement was.
Not at all surprised with the Telegraph figures but disappointed to see the Guardian has dropped so much. There is a place for quality hard copy journalism and the best thig I think could happen now would be for the Telegraph to fold and leave the field to the Times and Guardian.
I guess the question is how much is print-to-digital switching (where the papers are not out of pocket, and may even benefit), and how much is people just giving up on traditional media?
The compromise on the customs union question is obvious and is apparently going to be taken. Britain will remain in something that is substantially the customs union for a time-limited and potentially renewable period while the zealots use the time to do extra Charms classes at Hogwarts to come up with a magical solution.
So the UK will end up in position in which it continues to suffer most of the disadvantages of EU membership but enjoys few of the advantages. The exact opposite of the prospectus offered by Leave at the referendum.
Yup: if this is really what is on offer we may as well stay in.
Indeed but Leavers are obsessives, any politician who proposed that would get Jo Cox’d.
Is the toxic environment we live.
Far better we Leave and if people see it is a disaster we rejoin on worse terms than we currently have.
Joining the Euro might be the ultimate legacy of Farage, Gove, and Boris.
It's far better if we have a vote on the deal, reject Brexit heavily, and *then* go through the soul-searching to process why we ever got to that point in the first place. That's the time when we should join the Euro.
How come Micky Fab MP is getting into trouble for thinking that twat and twit mean the same thing? As far as I know they both usually mean idiot, although twat is perhaps a slightly stronger word than twit. Maybe there's a new meaning I'm not aware of.
Am told that tw@ is also the name for a lady's genitalia.
It's a nice name. Sounds elastic. Is she a nice lady? Would I know her?
The compromise on the customs union question is obvious and is apparently going to be taken. Britain will remain in something that is substantially the customs union for a time-limited and potentially renewable period while the zealots use the time to do extra Charms classes at Hogwarts to come up with a magical solution.
So the UK will end up in position in which it continues to suffer most of the disadvantages of EU membership but enjoys few of the advantages. The exact opposite of the prospectus offered by Leave at the referendum.
Yup: if this is really what is on offer we may as well stay in.
Indeed but Leavers are obsessives, any politician who proposed that would get Jo Cox’d.
Is the toxic environment we live.
Far better we Leave and if people see it is a disaster we rejoin on worse terms than we currently have.
Joining the Euro might be the ultimate legacy of Farage, Gove, and Boris.
Hmm, haven’t some been arguing we should stay in?
Yes, but talk is cheap, the ones who deliver it will be the ones accused of treason.
So they would only be “Jo Cox’d” if they went through with it? Hmmm.
I like to think that they would simply get demolished at the ballot box.
Despite the "project fear" about civil unrest, what's the democratic argument against a referendum between the deal and Remain as long as it's accepted that the deal represents an earnest attempt to negotiation the best withdrawal terms?
The EU would no doubt push for the worst terms possible to ensure they won the second round. And the idea that Leave would get another shot had Remain won is fanciful.
Agree on the first, but I think another EU referendum would have been inevitable if the first had been won 52:48 by Remain. The EU will be constantly changing to accommodate the issues with the Eurozone. That made another referendum almost inevitable.
Yeah, in the medium/long term. At some point we’d have been compelled to join the Euro or leave.
I think the fracturing of the EU between those who want to join a superstate and those who do not was inevitable from the creation of the Euro. The mistake the EU made - to my mind - was in failing to realise this, and thinking it was merely about speeds of convergence. This led them to fail to put in place proper structures for those outside the Eurozone.
Additionally the domestic political dynamics would probably have heavily favoured it. That's why all sorts of people from Boris to Farage were hoping to be on the losing side of a close Remain win for their own reasons.
Boris maybe, but you really think Farage wanted to lose the referendum?
Sort of ... yes.
I do feel like he wanted to win it but his way. He'd rather have lost it than won it the way it was run (by others not him and less focused on migration etc).
I did have a momentary thought when he popped up with "that" poster - was he really trying to go so over the top it would stop folk like me voting Leave?
Mr. Meeks, we voted to leave the EU. The Lords decided that they wanted the EU to determine our trade policy. Could you explain how that is not seeking to dilute our departure, and how the Lords voting to scrap an exit date is not seeking to thwart it?
You are seeking to act as arbiter of what true Brexit looks like. More than one permutation is possible. You don't like the House of Lords' preferred permutation. But it's still a form of Brexit. Just one you don't like.
Brexit on a different date is still Brexit. (As it happens, the House of Lords have done the Government a favour. If by chance it is decided that the Article 50 notice needs extending for whatever reason, it would be awkward to have to alter an Act of Parliament as well.)
So the UK will end up in position in which it continues to suffer most of the disadvantages of EU membership but enjoys few of the advantages. The exact opposite of the prospectus offered by Leave at the referendum.
Yup: if this is really what is on offer we may as well stay in.
Indeed but Leavers are obsessives, any politician who proposed that would get Jo Cox’d.
Is the toxic environment we live.
Far better we Leave and if people see it is a disaster we rejoin on worse terms than we currently have.
Joining the Euro might be the ultimate legacy of Farage, Gove, and Boris.
Hmm, haven’t some been arguing we should stay in?
Yes, but talk is cheap, the ones who deliver it will be the ones accused of treason.
So they would only be “Jo Cox’d” if they went through with it? Hmmm.
I like to think that they would simply get demolished at the ballot box.
Despite the "project fear" about civil unrest, what's the democratic argument against a referendum between the deal and Remain as long as it's accepted that the deal represents an earnest attempt to negotiation the best withdrawal terms?
The EU would no doubt push for the worst terms possible to ensure they won the second round. And the idea that Leave would get another shot had Remain won is fanciful.
Agree on the first, but I think another EU referendum would have been inevitable if the first had been won 52:48 by Remain. The EU will be constantly changing to accommodate the issues with the Eurozone. That made another referendum almost inevitable.
Yeah, in the medium/long term. At some point we’d have been compelled to join the Euro or leave.
I think the fracturing of the EU between those who want to join a superstate and those who do not was inevitable from the creation of the Euro. The mistake the EU made - to my mind - was in failing to realise this, and thinking it was merely about speeds of convergence. This led them to fail to put in place proper structures for those outside the Eurozone.
I think that is right. Is it possible that the UK could be the hefty nucleus of an EFTA that consists of all the non-euro EU countries that has enough heft to be more than a rule taker?
Not at all surprised with the Telegraph figures but disappointed to see the Guardian has dropped so much. There is a place for quality hard copy journalism and the best thig I think could happen now would be for the Telegraph to fold and leave the field to the Times and Guardian.
I expect most Telegraph readers would then go to the Mail rather than the Times
Not at all surprised with the Telegraph figures but disappointed to see the Guardian has dropped so much. There is a place for quality hard copy journalism and the best thig I think could happen now would be for the Telegraph to fold and leave the field to the Times and Guardian.
I expect most Telegraph readers would then go to the Mail rather than the Times
That's OK. I would still have reason to scowl at them on the train.
Not at all surprised with the Telegraph figures but disappointed to see the Guardian has dropped so much. There is a place for quality hard copy journalism and the best thig I think could happen now would be for the Telegraph to fold and leave the field to the Times and Guardian.
I expect most Telegraph readers would then go to the Mail rather than the Times
I suspect the Guardian is heading to all-digital. Tabloid move was first step. I hoped to have reached old age before that happens as I enjoy a proper paper, but not so likely now I fear.
I think the fracturing of the EU between those who want to join a superstate and those who do not was inevitable from the creation of the Euro. The mistake the EU made - to my mind - was in failing to realise this, and thinking it was merely about speeds of convergence. This led them to fail to put in place proper structures for those outside the Eurozone.
I wrote something along those lines at the time of the referendum. But the interesting thing is that Brexit seems to have pushed Euro & non-Euro members alike into a greater appreciation of the EU. Perhaps things will change once Brexit has actually happened, or whenever the next financial crisis hits the EU.
I guess the question is how much is print-to-digital switching (where the papers are not out of pocket, and may even benefit), and how much is people just giving up on traditional media?
Daily Mirror has a left wing bias but its Brexit readers are moving to Conservative.
Telegraph has a right wing bias but its Remain readers are moving to Labour.
Hence their circulation decline is faster than the others?
Comments
However, he went on to concede that securing a deal would probably not be easy in practice. “The only reason that we wouldn’t come to a free and open agreement is because politics gets in the way of economics,” Fox said.
Who one day got stuck in his garage
He campaigned so hard
But let down his guard
And fell to an electoral barrage.
This is proof that looking at a word can make you hear a sound differently:
twitter.com/meanpIastic/status/997109379819163649
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/997088812206567424
All the clips of Britain first I have seen, there never seems to be more than a coach load at most.
I voted remain and agree with a lot of Gardenwalker points. However, I honestly don't think you could call the EU democratic. We have a voice but the cost of the other benefits is a lack of democracy.
The other point I will make is that if you have a minimum wage somewhere North of Birmingham you are not likely feeling a great deal of the benefits. I hear it repeatedly said that people wouldn't vote to make themselves worse off, and in response I note the number of Labour voting ABC1 types in last years election.
_
It's hard to argue an arrangement where you take the rules from the EU or the US is more democratic than membership where your elected government has a direct say and vote and where you can directly elect a, representative. Nevertheless there is an issue, not just in the UK, with.an institution that is seen as remote and which tends to fall back on legalism.
One of the sad ironies of Brexit is those left behind voting for.an arrangement that is guaranteed to leave them further adrift.
Mr. Glenn, given the Lords et al. deliberately trying to frustrate, dilute and deny our departure, it's hardly knots, rather, an observance of reality that the political class (or a very large chunk of it) places higher importance on the EU than the UK electorate.
For some reason they aren’t keen on an ordinary football fan like me turning up.
Tommy Robinson also likes the current UKIP leader who wants Muslims to sign a charter.
https://youtu.be/IKAdiM2pYsQ
I am guessing it is just because you don’t like watching matches from the pleb seats ;-)
Sort of ... yes.
I do feel like he wanted to win it but his way. He'd rather have lost it than won it the way it was run (by others not him and less focused on migration etc).
The Football Lads Alliance, the group behind marches against what they call “Islamist extremists”, uses a secret Facebook page full of violent, racist and misogynistic posts, targeting Sadiq Khan and Diane Abbott, as well as playing down the crimes of the Finsbury Park mosque attacker, Darren Osborne.
The Observer has gained access to the FLA’s 65,000-strong Facebook group in the run-up to its planned march “against extremism” in Birmingham on 24 March, which anti-racists fear could be the UK’s biggest ever Islamophobic mobilisation.
The page, which is invite-only and monitored by a team of administrators, states the FLA are “not fascist thugs” but includes posts by members calling for Khan, London’s first Muslim mayor, to be “hanged” and for Abbott, Britain’s first black female MP, to be “run over”. There are also posts claiming mosque attacker Osborne is a “scapegoat” and suggesting he was right to plot to kill Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/17/football-lads-alliance-secret-facebook-page-racism-violence-sexism
1) They put their prices up
2) Changed their sizes
By all accounts he's highly rated. But to win, he needs the car, and to be the top (or equal) driver there. Not backing it myself, but worth a look.
Edited extra bit: if anyone wants to spend 50p on silly odds bets, Perez can be had at 1301 each way for the win in Monaco (with boost), Alonso 376, likewise. Pays out fifth the odds top 3.
Unlikely, as it's less chaotic than Azerbaijan usually, but Perez has a good record there and the Force India was relatively good in Azerbaijan. Anyway, pence rather than pounds, but thought I'd mention it.
Somebody needs to think of the children. Why won't anyone think of the children?
Disclosure: I was never a member of the NME / Gremlins
I'm gonna cry if they start wearing Hugo Boss, Ralph Lauren, Prada, Gucci, Salvatore Ferragamo, and LV.
https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/997075908572930050
And let's just say they have a 'legacy' that may have a certain appeal to those on the far-right.
Metro?
Standard?
At what did they start to have reservations about Neil Hamilton, I wonder.
I do feel like he wanted to win it but his way. He'd rather have lost it than won it the way it was run (by others not him and less focused on migration etc).
I did have a momentary thought when he popped up with "that" poster - was he really trying to go so over the top it would stop folk like me voting Leave?
Anyway, Farage was always a twat and not a twit.
Brexit on a different date is still Brexit. (As it happens, the House of Lords have done the Government a favour. If by chance it is decided that the Article 50 notice needs extending for whatever reason, it would be awkward to have to alter an Act of Parliament as well.)
NEW THREAD
Telegraph has a right wing bias but its Remain readers are moving to Labour.
Hence their circulation decline is faster than the others?