I see Daniel Hannan has belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies. His salty tears get no sympathy from me.
Why don't you tweet him and tell him straight?
He won't because what Mr Meeks has claimed is once again utter garbage.
I particularly like the way he states that no one gets 100% of what they want and then immediately expresses his expectation that what would emerge would be exactly what he wanted.
He is oddly vague about how Remain supporters could have got the genuine belief that the Brexit vote was all about immigration. Perhaps space didn't permit him to explain.
For two years Leave supporters have been exhorting erstwhile Remain supporters to put their shoulder to the wheel. Now they complain that Brexit should have been implemented by true believers. Talk about having your cake and eating it.
We need a Speaker Act, and fixed terms for the post.
All this fuss because Bercow pissed off David Cameron -- who is not even in parliament any more.
He pissed off more than Dave.
David Leakey's interview utterly damns Bercow.
Bercow is personally rude, politically inconsistent but has always been consistently pompous.
That’s why no-one likes him.
If MPs wanted Bercow out then their opportunity was 10 months ago at the start of the new parliament. It has been said that Bercow champions backbenchers over ministers. Perhaps there is something in that because his continued presence suggests most MPs either want him to stay or at worst do not feel very strongly about it.
On Brexit a Norway style deal would be the best option but I have no idea how we arrive there. Furthermore, Brexiters would be justified in feeling betrayed. However I believe it is time to stop abusing each other, remainers to levers and levers to remainers
Maybe naive but the end result will have to be a compromise and the Country needs to move on
May was dreadful yesterday and seems to be completely distracted, though I doubt anyone on here would be much different in the circumstances.
Replacing TM will not change the direction of travel and even Boris would not be able to change the maths. We are heading for a soft Brexit, no matter who leads the Country
May is the problem not the solution. Personally I don't want Boris as PM but someone like Javid, Hunt or one of the younger intake with Gove in one of the Great Offices would certainly be able to take us forward in a way that May seems to be incapable of doing.
I still have my £100 bet with Richard N that we end up in EFTA/EEA and I am not giving up hope on it yet.
Given that requires free movement and Leave would not have won without promising to end it that is very unlikely to happen, especially as neither the Tories nor Corbyn support it
I know it is very unlikely. But it would still be my preferred compromise solution.
It is very unlikely precisely because working class Leave voters would be furious, agreed
Surely all you need to do is say "Brexit means Brexit" for a while to ensure UKIP dies out, then let the negotiations get bogged down in tedious details that nobody understands, and by then everyone's forgotten what they thought in 2016 anyway.
By the next general election in 2022 if free movement is not ended UKIP may revive
This is just project fear.
UKIP are a busted flush and anyone in the mainstream parties should have the confidence to take them on. The time to treat them as an acceptable adjunct to the Eurosceptic wing of the Tories is over.
UKIP are only a busted flush as the Tories and Labour have promised to implement Brexit and end free movement. If they both reversed that course UKIP would instantly fill the gap in the market for Leave voters who feel betrayed
Maybe a new party, but not UKIP. The comedy party leadership antics have made UKIP a generally recognised laughing stock.
We need a Speaker Act, and fixed terms for the post.
All this fuss because Bercow pissed off David Cameron -- who is not even in parliament any more.
He pissed off more than Dave.
David Leakey's interview utterly damns Bercow.
Bercow is personally rude, politically inconsistent but has always been consistently pompous.
That’s why no-one likes him.
Once a Monday Club Twat always a Monday Club Twat as an old Oxonian once told me.
I wonder if he still supports forced repatriation of darkies?
I agree that we need term limits for the speaker ... and the PM. Parliaments can in theory last five years but I think eight years is a more reasonable limit than ten.
There've been two PMs since 1945 who got to 10 or 11 years. People couldn't wait to see the back of them.
I see Daniel Hannan has belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies. His salty tears get no sympathy from me.
Why don't you tweet him and tell him straight?
He won't because what Mr Meeks has claimed is once again utter garbage.
I particularly like the way he states that no one gets 100% of what they want and then immediately expresses his expectation that what would emerge would be exactly what he wanted.
He is oddly vague about how Remain supporters could have got the genuine belief that the Brexit vote was all about immigration. Perhaps space didn't permit him to explain.
For two years Leave supporters have been exhorting erstwhile Remain supporters to put their shoulder to the wheel. Now they complain that Brexit should have been implemented by true believers. Talk about having your cake and eating it.
And yet nowhere does he say what you claimed:
"belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies"
There is nothing there that could even be obliquely read as supporting your claim.
I see Daniel Hannan has belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies. His salty tears get no sympathy from me.
Why don't you tweet him and tell him straight?
He won't because what Mr Meeks has claimed is once again utter garbage.
I particularly like the way he states that no one gets 100% of what they want and then immediately expresses his expectation that what would emerge would be exactly what he wanted.
He is oddly vague about how Remain supporters could have got the genuine belief that the Brexit vote was all about immigration. Perhaps space didn't permit him to explain.
For two years Leave supporters have been exhorting erstwhile Remain supporters to put their shoulder to the wheel. Now they complain that Brexit should have been implemented by true believers. Talk about having your cake and eating it.
And yet nowhere does he say what you claimed:
"belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies"
There is nothing there that could even be obliquely read as supporting your claim.
So when he says the problem is that Remainers "genuinely believe that the only real issue for Leavers was immigration", you don't think that has anything to do with the nature of the Leave campaign?
We need a Speaker Act, and fixed terms for the post.
All this fuss because Bercow pissed off David Cameron -- who is not even in parliament any more.
He pissed off more than Dave.
David Leakey's interview utterly damns Bercow.
Bercow is personally rude, politically inconsistent but has always been consistently pompous.
That’s why no-one likes him.
If MPs wanted Bercow out then their opportunity was 10 months ago at the start of the new parliament. It has been said that Bercow champions backbenchers over ministers. Perhaps there is something in that because his continued presence suggests most MPs either want him to stay or at worst do not feel very strongly about it.
Labour MPs like him because he annoys the Tories and takes one of their MPs (at least nominally) out of play.
Bercow still has a few fans on the backbenches elsewhere, or used to, because for all his faults he did institute a few reforms to better hold the Executive to account.
I see Daniel Hannan has belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies. His salty tears get no sympathy from me.
Why don't you tweet him and tell him straight?
He won't because what Mr Meeks has claimed is once again utter garbage.
I particularly like the way he states that no one gets 100% of what they want and then immediately expresses his expectation that what would emerge would be exactly what he wanted.
He is oddly vague about how Remain supporters could have got the genuine belief that the Brexit vote was all about immigration. Perhaps space didn't permit him to explain.
For two years Leave supporters have been exhorting erstwhile Remain supporters to put their shoulder to the wheel. Now they complain that Brexit should have been implemented by true believers. Talk about having your cake and eating it.
And yet nowhere does he say what you claimed:
"belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies"
There is nothing there that could even be obliquely read as supporting your claim.
The genuine belief of Remainers of the paramount importance of immigration.
I see Daniel Hannan has belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies. His salty tears get no sympathy from me.
Why don't you tweet him and tell him straight?
He won't because what Mr Meeks has claimed is once again utter garbage.
I particularly like the way he states that no one gets 100% of what they want and then immediately expresses his expectation that what would emerge would be exactly what he wanted.
He is oddly vague about how Remain supporters could have got the genuine belief that the Brexit vote was all about immigration. Perhaps space didn't permit him to explain.
For two years Leave supporters have been exhorting erstwhile Remain supporters to put their shoulder to the wheel. Now they complain that Brexit should have been implemented by true believers. Talk about having your cake and eating it.
And yet nowhere does he say what you claimed:
"belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies"
There is nothing there that could even be obliquely read as supporting your claim.
The genuine belief of Remainers of the paramount importance of immigration.
Yep you all genuinely believe that. He doesn't say you are right. Indeed you are utterly wrong. As I say you have not even misrepresented what he said you have just made stuff up.
Except EEA means no Customs Union and allegedly Ireland needs a Customs Union?
Are you saying that the claims that Ireland needs a Customs Union were self-serving bulls##t all along?
There is no reason why Customs Union cannot be accommodated. It could even be May's ambitious bespoke arrangement.
Remember, EEA is part of EFTA. Switzerland is in EFTA but not in EEA. The other three countries in EFTA constitutes the EEA.
So we could have an EEA arrangement but not quite by including Customs Union [ Switzerland ]. In the EU, almost, but not quite!
So you get both a FTA [ proxy for being in the SM ] and "a Customs Union" [ proxy for Customs Union. T May can call it Customs arrangement or whatever she likes.
But we will still be outside the EU. So in compliance with the result of the referendum.
Everyone is happy ! We will need a people's vote to ratify this arrangement.
"Labour’s support fell in almost half the 50 most marginal constituencies where all councillors were up for election last week, analysis by a party insider has found.
The study obtained by The Times shows that in 20 of the Westminster seats examined, support for Jeremy Corbyn’s party declined between 2014 and last week. It increased in 23 Westminster seats.
A report accompanying the analysis concluded: “Overall these results are slightly worse than 2014 and nowhere near the level that oppositions have recorded before winning general elections."
I see Daniel Hannan has belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies. His salty tears get no sympathy from me.
Why don't you tweet him and tell him straight?
He won't because what Mr Meeks has claimed is once again utter garbage.
I particularly like the way he states that no one gets 100% of what they want and then immediately expresses his expectation that what would emerge would be exactly what he wanted.
He is oddly vague about how Remain supporters could have got the genuine belief that the Brexit vote was all about immigration. Perhaps space didn't permit him to explain.
For two years Leave supporters have been exhorting erstwhile Remain supporters to put their shoulder to the wheel. Now they complain that Brexit should have been implemented by true believers. Talk about having your cake and eating it.
And yet nowhere does he say what you claimed:
"belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies"
There is nothing there that could even be obliquely read as supporting your claim.
So when he says the problem is that Remainers "genuinely believe that the only real issue for Leavers was immigration", you don't think that has anything to do with the nature of the Leave campaign?
Nope it has everything to do with the arrogance and bias of Remainers who have always refused to accept the result was caused by anything other than xenophobia. You own that one not us.
I see Daniel Hannan has belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies. His salty tears get no sympathy from me.
Why don't you tweet him and tell him straight?
He won't because what Mr Meeks has claimed is once again utter garbage.
I particularly like the way he states that no one gets 100% of what they want and then immediately expresses his expectation that what would emerge would be exactly what he wanted.
He is oddly vague about how Remain supporters could have got the genuine belief that the Brexit vote was all about immigration. Perhaps space didn't permit him to explain.
For two years Leave supporters have been exhorting erstwhile Remain supporters to put their shoulder to the wheel. Now they complain that Brexit should have been implemented by true believers. Talk about having your cake and eating it.
And yet nowhere does he say what you claimed:
"belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies"
There is nothing there that could even be obliquely read as supporting your claim.
The genuine belief of Remainers of the paramount importance of immigration.
Yep you all genuinely believe that. He doesn't say you are right. Indeed you are utterly wrong. As I say you have not even misrepresented what he said you have just made stuff up.
You, like Mr Hannan, are studiously avoiding addressing where that genuine belief comes from. Because the answer is obvious: the referendum campaign based on xenophobic lies.
Except EEA means no Customs Union and allegedly Ireland needs a Customs Union?
Are you saying that the claims that Ireland needs a Customs Union were self-serving bulls##t all along?
There is no reason why Customs Union cannot be accommodated. It could even be May's ambitious bespoke arrangement.
Remember, EEA is part of EFTA. Switzerland is in EFTA but not in EEA. The other three countries in EFTA constitutes the EEA.
So we could have an EEA arrangement but not quite by including Customs Union [ Switzerland ]. In the EU, almost, but not quite!
So you get both a FTA [ proxy for being in the SM ] and "a Customs Union" [ proxy for Customs Union. T May can call it Customs arrangement or whatever she likes.
But we will still be outside the EU. So in compliance with the result of the referendum.
Everyone is happy ! We will need a people's vote to ratify this arrangement.
Switzerland is not in a customs union with the EU. Try again.
Except EEA means no Customs Union and allegedly Ireland needs a Customs Union?
Are you saying that the claims that Ireland needs a Customs Union were self-serving bulls##t all along?
There is no reason why Customs Union cannot be accommodated. It could even be May's ambitious bespoke arrangement. Remember, EEA is part of EFTA.
Switzerland is in EFTA but not in EEA. The other three in EFTA are constitutes the EEA.
So we could have an EEA arrangement but not quite by including Customs Union [ Switzerland ].
So you get both a FTA [ proxy for being in the SM ] and "a Customs Union" [ proxy for Customs Union. T May can call it Customs arrangement or whatever she likes.
But we will still be outside the EU. So in compliance with the result of the referendum.
Everyone is happy ! We will need a people's vote to ratify this arrangement.
No you can't. The EEA has their own customs arrangements.
You could theoretically have EFTA membership and a customs union but you couldn't have EEA and customs union.
I know this retarded, and I don’t mean this in an unkind way, but that photo of Heidi Alexander looks like she’s aged about 22 and someone has added 20 years of aging to it.
Something very youthful about her underlying face.
Except EEA means no Customs Union and allegedly Ireland needs a Customs Union?
Are you saying that the claims that Ireland needs a Customs Union were self-serving bulls##t all along?
There is no reason why Customs Union cannot be accommodated. It could even be May's ambitious bespoke arrangement.
Remember, EEA is part of EFTA. Switzerland is in EFTA but not in EEA. The other three countries in EFTA constitutes the EEA.
So we could have an EEA arrangement but not quite by including Customs Union [ Switzerland ]. In the EU, almost, but not quite!
So you get both a FTA [ proxy for being in the SM ] and "a Customs Union" [ proxy for Customs Union. T May can call it Customs arrangement or whatever she likes.
But we will still be outside the EU. So in compliance with the result of the referendum.
Everyone is happy ! We will need a people's vote to ratify this arrangement.
Nope because unlike the SM, the Customs Union is an integral part of EU membership, not EEA membership. You cannot be in the Customs Union and not an EU member (unless you are so small and insignificant like San Marino or Andorra that it makes no difference).
Being in a separate Customs Union like Turkey means any country with an FTA with the EU can import into your country tariff free but you do not get the reciprocal rights.
I see Daniel Hannan has belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies. His salty tears get no sympathy from me.
Why don't you tweet him and tell him straight?
He won't because what Mr Meeks has claimed is once again utter garbage.
I particularly like the way he states that no one gets 100% of what they want and then immediately expresses his expectation that what would emerge would be exactly what he wanted.
He is oddly vague about how Remain supporters could have got the genuine belief that the Brexit vote was all about immigration. Perhaps space didn't permit him to explain.
For two years Leave supporters have been exhorting erstwhile Remain supporters to put their shoulder to the wheel. Now they complain that Brexit should have been implemented by true believers. Talk about having your cake and eating it.
And yet nowhere does he say what you claimed:
"belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies"
There is nothing there that could even be obliquely read as supporting your claim.
The genuine belief of Remainers of the paramount importance of immigration.
Yep you all genuinely believe that. He doesn't say you are right. Indeed you are utterly wrong. As I say you have not even misrepresented what he said you have just made stuff up.
You, like Mr Hannan, are studiously avoiding addressing where that genuine belief comes from. Because the answer is obvious: the referendum campaign based on xenophobic lies.
It comes from the shortsighted arrogance of remainers who refuse to admit that leavers may not be xenophobic and may have a point on alternative economic arrangements being better.
I see the YouGov Brexit right/wrong poll finding that the gap is down to just 2 points again (43% right v.45% wrong) is getting very little comment on here.
The companies have offered varying explanations for their payments, none of them persuasive. A.T. & T. said that it wanted “insights” into the Trump Administration; that is not something you pay the President’s personal attorney to give you, under any circumstances. (Did the company expect the lowdown on Trump’s next moves? That would possibly be a violation of attorney-client privilege.) It is particularly not something you pay for when, as was the case with A.T. & T., you are trying to get Cohen’s client’s other subordinates to approve a merger. That might be topped by Korea Aerospace’s statement saying that it had turned to Essential Consultants for advice on meeting “accounting standards on production costs.” Korea Aerospace, alongside Lockheed Martin, is currently competing for a defense contract. Columbus Nova, acknowledging to the Times that it had paid Essential Consultants a “consulting fee,” concentrated on denying that the payment had anything to do with Vekselberg. Novartis said that it was looking for advice on medical matters—from Cohen, whose experience in this field, as Rolling Stone recently reported, has involved doing legal work for clinics that were, essentially, insurance-fraud mills….
I see Daniel Hannan has belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies. His salty tears get no sympathy from me.
Why don't you tweet him and tell him straight?
He won't because what Mr Meeks has claimed is once again utter garbage.
I particularly like the way he states that no one gets 100% of what they want and then immediately expresses his expectation that what would emerge would be exactly what he wanted.
He is oddly vague about how Remain supporters could have got the genuine belief that the Brexit vote was all about immigration. Perhaps space didn't permit him to explain.
For two years Leave supporters have been exhorting erstwhile Remain supporters to put their shoulder to the wheel. Now they complain that Brexit should have been implemented by true believers. Talk about having your cake and eating it.
And yet nowhere does he say what you claimed:
"belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies"
There is nothing there that could even be obliquely read as supporting your claim.
The genuine belief of Remainers of the paramount importance of immigration.
Yep you all genuinely believe that. He doesn't say you are right. Indeed you are utterly wrong. As I say you have not even misrepresented what he said you have just made stuff up.
You, like Mr Hannan, are studiously avoiding addressing where that genuine belief comes from. Because the answer is obvious: the referendum campaign based on xenophobic lies.
Nope Remainers only ever considered that anti-EU sentiment was driven by xenophobia long before the referendum came along and you went looking for that as an excuse when you lost. It is a reflection of your state of mind not ours.
I know this retarded, and I don’t mean this in an unkind way, but that photo of Heidi Alexander looks like she’s aged about 22 and someone has added 20 years of aging to it.
Something very youthful about her underlying face.
It's a very tightly cropped head shot. Those aren't normally so flattering.
Except EEA means no Customs Union and allegedly Ireland needs a Customs Union?
Are you saying that the claims that Ireland needs a Customs Union were self-serving bulls##t all along?
There is no reason why Customs Union cannot be accommodated. It could even be May's ambitious bespoke arrangement.
Remember, EEA is part of EFTA. Switzerland is in EFTA but not in EEA. The other three countries in EFTA constitutes the EEA.
So we could have an EEA arrangement but not quite by including Customs Union [ Switzerland ]. In the EU, almost, but not quite!
So you get both a FTA [ proxy for being in the SM ] and "a Customs Union" [ proxy for Customs Union. T May can call it Customs arrangement or whatever she likes.
But we will still be outside the EU. So in compliance with the result of the referendum.
Everyone is happy ! We will need a people's vote to ratify this arrangement.
Nope because unlike the SM, the Customs Union is an integral part of EU membership, not EEA membership. You cannot be in the Customs Union and not an EU member (unless you are so small and insignificant like San Marino or Andorra that it makes no difference).
Being in a separate Customs Union like Turkey means any country with an FTA with the EU can import into your country tariff free but you do not get the reciprocal rights.
No one is saying that we have to be in "the" customs union, just "a" customs union which looks surprisingly similar.
The companies have offered varying explanations for their payments, none of them persuasive. A.T. & T. said that it wanted “insights” into the Trump Administration; that is not something you pay the President’s personal attorney to give you, under any circumstances. (Did the company expect the lowdown on Trump’s next moves? That would possibly be a violation of attorney-client privilege.) It is particularly not something you pay for when, as was the case with A.T. & T., you are trying to get Cohen’s client’s other subordinates to approve a merger. That might be topped by Korea Aerospace’s statement saying that it had turned to Essential Consultants for advice on meeting “accounting standards on production costs.” Korea Aerospace, alongside Lockheed Martin, is currently competing for a defense contract. Columbus Nova, acknowledging to the Times that it had paid Essential Consultants a “consulting fee,” concentrated on denying that the payment had anything to do with Vekselberg. Novartis said that it was looking for advice on medical matters—from Cohen, whose experience in this field, as Rolling Stone recently reported, has involved doing legal work for clinics that were, essentially, insurance-fraud mills….
The companies have offered varying explanations for their payments, none of them persuasive. A.T. & T. said that it wanted “insights” into the Trump Administration; that is not something you pay the President’s personal attorney to give you, under any circumstances. (Did the company expect the lowdown on Trump’s next moves? That would possibly be a violation of attorney-client privilege.) It is particularly not something you pay for when, as was the case with A.T. & T., you are trying to get Cohen’s client’s other subordinates to approve a merger. That might be topped by Korea Aerospace’s statement saying that it had turned to Essential Consultants for advice on meeting “accounting standards on production costs.” Korea Aerospace, alongside Lockheed Martin, is currently competing for a defense contract. Columbus Nova, acknowledging to the Times that it had paid Essential Consultants a “consulting fee,” concentrated on denying that the payment had anything to do with Vekselberg. Novartis said that it was looking for advice on medical matters—from Cohen, whose experience in this field, as Rolling Stone recently reported, has involved doing legal work for clinics that were, essentially, insurance-fraud mills….
I see the YouGov Brexit right/wrong poll finding that the gap is down to just 2 points again (43% right v.45% wrong) is getting very little comment on here.
It's slowly moving in a saw tooth pattern towards 'wrong', so this slight correction probably heralds the next shift down.
Except EEA means no Customs Union and allegedly Ireland needs a Customs Union?
Are you saying that the claims that Ireland needs a Customs Union were self-serving bulls##t all along?
There is no reason why Customs Union cannot be accommodated. It could even be May's ambitious bespoke arrangement. Remember, EEA is part of EFTA.
Switzerland is in EFTA but not in EEA. The other three in EFTA are constitutes the EEA.
So we could have an EEA arrangement but not quite by including Customs Union [ Switzerland ].
So you get both a FTA [ proxy for being in the SM ] and "a Customs Union" [ proxy for Customs Union. T May can call it Customs arrangement or whatever she likes.
But we will still be outside the EU. So in compliance with the result of the referendum.
Everyone is happy ! We will need a people's vote to ratify this arrangement.
No you can't. The EEA has their own customs arrangements.
You could theoretically have EFTA membership and a customs union but you couldn't have EEA and customs union.
I did not mean either EEA exactly or EFTA. Similar - just like T May's ambitious bespoke arrangement. Basically a new definition. Just outside the EU but looks remarkably similar.
We will pay money annually but FoM will be different. Maybe that is what T May has in mind.
O/T. I've just seen a fantastic play which could be made to solve the current Brexit impasse.
- Customs partnership is rejected - MaxFac is embraced - Announcement that first steps are made on the FTA which will prevent the need for a hard border in Ireland because of MaxFac on our only land border - But the compromise is that we extend the transition, just for SM/CU, to March 2022, to allow time for MaxFac and business readiness
This assuages the CU/SM brigade, allows subsequent divergence to please us Brexiteers, cheers business, keeps the Irish border softer than just remaining in the CU, and also prevents any danger of reversal because it finishes before the next GE.
Happy to help, No. 10, happy to help....especially if you need some peers for a year!
O/T. I've just seen a fantastic play which could be made to solve the current Brexit impasse.
- Customs partnership is rejected - MaxFac is embraced - Announcement that first steps are made on the FTA which will prevent the need for a hard border in Ireland because of MaxFac on our only land border - But the compromise is that we extend the transition, just for SM/CU, to March 2022, to allow time for MaxFac and business readiness
This assuages the CU/SM brigade, allows subsequent divergence to please us Brexiteers, cheers business, keeps the Irish border softer than just remaining in the CU, and also prevents any danger of reversal because it finishes before the next GE.
Happy to help, No. 10, happy to help....especially if you need some peers for a year!
Can someone please explain to me what will happen to the Irish border issue should there be no deal with the EU on the day of the UK leaving
It won't happen.
But if it did we would have have customs borders etc erected and suddenly Ireland will be wanting a deal of some sort. Just like almost every other international border anywhere else in the globe.
I see the YouGov Brexit right/wrong poll finding that the gap is down to just 2 points again (43% right v.45% wrong) is getting very little comment on here.
It's slowly moving in a saw tooth pattern towards 'wrong', so this slight correction probably heralds the next shift down.
We need a Speaker Act, and fixed terms for the post.
I don't like fixed terms. But making them the MP for the Palace of Westminster would be a good idea (the electorate being sitting MPs). Then their actual constituency can have a by-election along normal party-political lines.
i agree with this. We border Buckingham and I have friends there; the national media hasn't picked up on the anger the people there feel about being disenfranchised electorally.
I see the YouGov Brexit right/wrong poll finding that the gap is down to just 2 points again (43% right v.45% wrong) is getting very little comment on here.
It's slowly moving in a saw tooth pattern towards 'wrong', so this slight correction probably heralds the next shift down.
O/T. I've just seen a fantastic play which could be made to solve the current Brexit impasse.
- Customs partnership is rejected - MaxFac is embraced - Announcement that first steps are made on the FTA which will prevent the need for a hard border in Ireland because of MaxFac on our only land border - But the compromise is that we extend the transition, just for SM/CU, to March 2022, to allow time for MaxFac and business readiness
This assuages the CU/SM brigade, allows subsequent divergence to please us Brexiteers, cheers business, keeps the Irish border softer than just remaining in the CU, and also prevents any danger of reversal because it finishes before the next GE.
Happy to help, No. 10, happy to help....especially if you need some peers for a year!
JRM rejects your proposal
Try again
JRM is just one MP and will likely oppose whatever ultimate deal is reached.
Can someone please explain to me what will happen to the Irish border issue should there be no deal with the EU on the day of the UK leaving
We have to charge WTO duties to all goods entering the UK. If we do not charge anything, then that has to be the case for all goods import to the UK. Because under WTO rules you cannot discriminate between countries unless there is a FTA with that country.
Except EEA means no Customs Union and allegedly Ireland needs a Customs Union?
Are you saying that the claims that Ireland needs a Customs Union were self-serving bulls##t all along?
There is no reason why Customs Union cannot be accommodated. It could even be May's ambitious bespoke arrangement.
Remember, EEA is part of EFTA. Switzerland is in EFTA but not in EEA. The other three countries in EFTA constitutes the EEA.
So we could have an EEA arrangement but not quite by including Customs Union [ Switzerland ]. In the EU, almost, but not quite!
So you get both a FTA [ proxy for being in the SM ] and "a Customs Union" [ proxy for Customs Union. T May can call it Customs arrangement or whatever she likes.
But we will still be outside the EU. So in compliance with the result of the referendum.
Everyone is happy ! We will need a people's vote to ratify this arrangement.
Nope because unlike the SM, the Customs Union is an integral part of EU membership, not EEA membership. You cannot be in the Customs Union and not an EU member (unless you are so small and insignificant like San Marino or Andorra that it makes no difference).
Being in a separate Customs Union like Turkey means any country with an FTA with the EU can import into your country tariff free but you do not get the reciprocal rights.
No one is saying that we have to be in "the" customs union, just "a" customs union which looks surprisingly similar.
Looking online, the following crown dependencies appear to belong to The CU although they've always been outside the EU:
Bailiwick of Guernsey Bailiwick of Jersey Isle of Man.
So will they stay in The CU while we get given only A CU?
I see the YouGov Brexit right/wrong poll finding that the gap is down to just 2 points again (43% right v.45% wrong) is getting very little comment on here.
It's slowly moving in a saw tooth pattern towards 'wrong', so this slight correction probably heralds the next shift down.
You have to get marks for trying, I’ll give you that.
O/T. I've just seen a fantastic play which could be made to solve the current Brexit impasse.
- Customs partnership is rejected - MaxFac is embraced - Announcement that first steps are made on the FTA which will prevent the need for a hard border in Ireland because of MaxFac on our only land border - But the compromise is that we extend the transition, just for SM/CU, to March 2022, to allow time for MaxFac and business readiness
This assuages the CU/SM brigade, allows subsequent divergence to please us Brexiteers, cheers business, keeps the Irish border softer than just remaining in the CU, and also prevents any danger of reversal because it finishes before the next GE.
Happy to help, No. 10, happy to help....especially if you need some peers for a year!
JRM rejects your proposal
Try again
JRM is just one MP and will likely oppose whatever ultimate deal is reached.
O/T. I've just seen a fantastic play which could be made to solve the current Brexit impasse.
- Customs partnership is rejected - MaxFac is embraced - Announcement that first steps are made on the FTA which will prevent the need for a hard border in Ireland because of MaxFac on our only land border - But the compromise is that we extend the transition, just for SM/CU, to March 2022, to allow time for MaxFac and business readiness
This assuages the CU/SM brigade, allows subsequent divergence to please us Brexiteers, cheers business, keeps the Irish border softer than just remaining in the CU, and also prevents any danger of reversal because it finishes before the next GE.
Happy to help, No. 10, happy to help....especially if you need some peers for a year!
JRM rejects your proposal
Try again
JRM is just one MP and will likely oppose whatever ultimate deal is reached.
Do you see TM standing up to JRM?
Yes. JRM was against a transition in the first place originally until one is agreed at which point he backed it as he was still getting his ultimate ambition. So long as the ultimate agreement is one that is acceptable May can override naysayers on anything that is transitional.
Except EEA means no Customs Union and allegedly Ireland needs a Customs Union?
Are you saying that the claims that Ireland needs a Customs Union were self-serving bulls##t all along?
There is no reason why Customs Union cannot be accommodated. It could even be May's ambitious bespoke arrangement. Remember, EEA is part of EFTA.
Switzerland is in EFTA but not in EEA. The other three in EFTA are constitutes the EEA.
So we could have an EEA arrangement but not quite by including Customs Union [ Switzerland ].
So you get both a FTA [ proxy for being in the SM ] and "a Customs Union" [ proxy for Customs Union. T May can call it Customs arrangement or whatever she likes.
But we will still be outside the EU. So in compliance with the result of the referendum.
Everyone is happy ! We will need a people's vote to ratify this arrangement.
No you can't. The EEA has their own customs arrangements.
You could theoretically have EFTA membership and a customs union but you couldn't have EEA and customs union.
I did not mean either EEA exactly or EFTA. Similar - just like T May's ambitious bespoke arrangement. Basically a new definition. Just outside the EU but looks remarkably similar.
We will pay money annually but FoM will be different. Maybe that is what T May has in mind.
FoM will be the same but with a different name. Most if not all the leave ministers are pro-immigration. But yes, it may well be what Theresa May has in mind.
Except EEA means no Customs Union and allegedly Ireland needs a Customs Union?
Are you saying that the claims that Ireland needs a Customs Union were self-serving bulls##t all along?
There is no reason why Customs Union cannot be accommodated. It could even be May's ambitious bespoke arrangement.
Remember, EEA is part of EFTA. Switzerland is in EFTA but not in EEA. The other three countries in EFTA constitutes the EEA.
So we could have an EEA arrangement but not quite by including Customs Union [ Switzerland ]. In the EU, almost, but not quite!
So you get both a FTA [ proxy for being in the SM ] and "a Customs Union" [ proxy for Customs Union. T May can call it Customs arrangement or whatever she likes.
But we will still be outside the EU. So in compliance with the result of the referendum.
Everyone is happy ! We will need a people's vote to ratify this arrangement.
Nope because unlike the SM, the Customs Union is an integral part of EU membership, not EEA membership. You cannot be in the Customs Union and not an EU member (unless you are so small and insignificant like San Marino or Andorra that it makes no difference).
Being in a separate Customs Union like Turkey means any country with an FTA with the EU can import into your country tariff free but you do not get the reciprocal rights.
No one is saying that we have to be in "the" customs union, just "a" customs union which looks surprisingly similar.
Like Turkey who suffer from the one way tariff problems. So much so that they had said if the EU signed TTIP they would have to withdraw from their customs union.
Our father who art in threadneedle Street Carney by thine name Thy mortgage come Rates will be low In London as it is in Britain Give us this day our FTSE boost For thine is the cheap mortgage The exporter's and homeowner's friend At least until you get the sack Amen.
Our father who art in threadneedle Street Carney by thine name Thy mortgage come Rates will be low In London as it is in Britain Give us this day our FTSE boost For thine is the cheap mortgage The exporter's and homeowner's friend At least until you get the sack Amen.
I don't actually have a mortgage, but I am an exporter that doesn't often buy items from outside the UK, so am currently very pleased to see Cable having taken a bit of a knock.
Isn't the likely reason for the Brexit bill delays simply that the clock ticks against rebellious remainer Tory MPs and in favour of hard leavers? Surely there comes a time where the choice will be between supporting the government and no time for any deal at all. Or am I reading too much game-theoretical cunning into a leadership manifestly short on it?
Can someone please explain to me what will happen to the Irish border issue should there be no deal with the EU on the day of the UK leaving
Invasion!
We will quickly reincorporate the Republic into the UK, by amphibious assaults against Dublin Bay, Cork and Rosslare, and a two-pronged land-based strike from South Armagh and County Fermanagh!
On topic, I think the only way Heidi could win selection for the London mayor is with a pre-Corbyn for leader membership. She will be associated with the 'chicken coup' of co-ordinated resignations which is a phrase I don't like but has stuck with Corbyn supporting members. So unless something dramatic happens to the membership in the next few years, I think any successor to Sadiq will come from his left not his right.
Except EEA means no Customs Union and allegedly Ireland needs a Customs Union?
Are you saying that the claims that Ireland needs a Customs Union were self-serving bulls##t all along?
There is no reason why Customs Union cannot be accommodated. It could even be May's ambitious bespoke arrangement.
Remember, EEA is part of EFTA. Switzerland is in EFTA but not in EEA. The other three countries in EFTA constitutes the EEA.
So we could have an EEA arrangement but not quite by including Customs Union [ Switzerland ]. In the EU, almost, but not quite!
So you get both a FTA [ proxy for being in the SM ] and "a Customs Union" [ proxy for Customs Union. T May can call it Customs arrangement or whatever she likes.
But we will still be outside the EU. So in compliance with the result of the referendum.
Everyone is happy ! We will need a people's vote to ratify this arrangement.
Nope because unlike the SM, the Customs Union is an integral part of EU membership, not EEA membership. You cannot be in the Customs Union and not an EU member (unless you are so small and insignificant like San Marino or Andorra that it makes no difference).
Being in a separate Customs Union like Turkey means any country with an FTA with the EU can import into your country tariff free but you do not get the reciprocal rights.
No one is saying that we have to be in "the" customs union, just "a" customs union which looks surprisingly similar.
Looking online, the following crown dependencies appear to belong to The CU although they've always been outside the EU:
Bailiwick of Guernsey Bailiwick of Jersey Isle of Man.
So will they stay in The CU while we get given only A CU?
No.
As the UK withdrawals from the EU, the current Customs arrangements will cease.
The companies have offered varying explanations for their payments, none of them persuasive. A.T. & T. said that it wanted “insights” into the Trump Administration; that is not something you pay the President’s personal attorney to give you, under any circumstances. (Did the company expect the lowdown on Trump’s next moves? That would possibly be a violation of attorney-client privilege.) It is particularly not something you pay for when, as was the case with A.T. & T., you are trying to get Cohen’s client’s other subordinates to approve a merger. That might be topped by Korea Aerospace’s statement saying that it had turned to Essential Consultants for advice on meeting “accounting standards on production costs.” Korea Aerospace, alongside Lockheed Martin, is currently competing for a defense contract. Columbus Nova, acknowledging to the Times that it had paid Essential Consultants a “consulting fee,” concentrated on denying that the payment had anything to do with Vekselberg. Novartis said that it was looking for advice on medical matters—from Cohen, whose experience in this field, as Rolling Stone recently reported, has involved doing legal work for clinics that were, essentially, insurance-fraud mills….
Swampy.
Sewery, rather.
If anything (other than the electorate next time around) does bring down Trump, it will be following the money.
If this does happen Brexit will rapidly prove to be popular.
It would be interesting to see how the Ultra Remainers responded to that
Quite simply is that is the case under the Single Market Transition, why leave? Only a fool would rock the boat, were this to come to pass. I'm glad you have come over to our way of thinking.
I see the YouGov Brexit right/wrong poll finding that the gap is down to just 2 points again (43% right v.45% wrong) is getting very little comment on here.
Our father who art in threadneedle Street Carney by thine name Thy mortgage come Rates will be low In London as it is in Britain Give us this day our FTSE boost For thine is the cheap mortgage The exporter's and homeowner's friend At least until you get the sack Amen.
I don't actually have a mortgage, but I am an exporter that doesn't often buy items from outside the UK, so am currently very pleased to see Cable having taken a bit of a knock.
That's a bit harsh, he gained two councils in SW London and plenty more seats beside.
Comments
He is oddly vague about how Remain supporters could have got the genuine belief that the Brexit vote was all about immigration. Perhaps space didn't permit him to explain.
For two years Leave supporters have been exhorting erstwhile Remain supporters to put their shoulder to the wheel. Now they complain that Brexit should have been implemented by true believers. Talk about having your cake and eating it.
Or indeed anyone else.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/994542340529324032
[after allowing the simulated Tory Majority to be destroyed]
Theresa: Permission to speak freely, sir?
TSE: Granted.
Theresa: I do not believe this was a fair test of my Prime Ministerial abilities.
TSE: And why not?
Theresa: Because... there was no way to win.
TSE: A no-win situation is a possibility every PM may face. Has that never occurred to you?
Theresa: No, sir, it has not.
TSE: And how we deal with Brexit is at least as important as how we deal with life, wouldn't you say?
Theresa: As I indicated, Admiral, that thought had not occurred to me.
TSE: Well, now you have something new to think about. Carry on.
Who one day got stuck in his garage
He campaigned so hard
But let down his guard
And fell to an electoral barrage
I wonder if he still supports forced repatriation of darkies?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44070304
Absolubtely shameful.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/10/andy-burnham-says-labour-hounded-debbie-abrahams-out
There've been two PMs since 1945 who got to 10 or 11 years. People couldn't wait to see the back of them.
"belatedly identified the problem so-called moderate Leavers now face because they fell in behind a campaign fought on xenophobic lies"
There is nothing there that could even be obliquely read as supporting your claim.
Bercow still has a few fans on the backbenches elsewhere, or used to, because for all his faults he did institute a few reforms to better hold the Executive to account.
Although the best individual line in Carry on history has to be
Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it in for me!
Are you saying that the claims that Ireland needs a Customs Union were self-serving bulls##t all along?
But the best line must be:
"I want to be wooed."
"Oh you can be as wooed as you like!"
Neither Lindsay Hoyle, Eleanor Laing, Rosie Winterton nor Bercow (Deputy Speaker/Chairman and 1st and 2nd Deputy ways & Means) vote by convention. 2 Lab, 2 Con
It very marginally increases the power of the non Con, non Lab forces in the house.
Remember, EEA is part of EFTA. Switzerland is in EFTA but not in EEA. The other three countries in EFTA constitutes the EEA.
So we could have an EEA arrangement but not quite by including Customs Union [ Switzerland ]. In the EU, almost, but not quite!
So you get both a FTA [ proxy for being in the SM ] and "a Customs Union" [ proxy for Customs Union. T May can call it Customs arrangement or whatever she likes.
But we will still be outside the EU. So in compliance with the result of the referendum.
Everyone is happy ! We will need a people's vote to ratify this arrangement.
The study obtained by The Times shows that in 20 of the Westminster seats examined, support for Jeremy Corbyn’s party declined between 2014 and last week. It increased in 23 Westminster seats.
A report accompanying the analysis concluded: “Overall these results are slightly worse than 2014 and nowhere near the level that oppositions have recorded before winning general elections."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corbyn-local-election-results-worse-than-2014-marginal-x3nf5x29r
You could theoretically have EFTA membership and a customs union but you couldn't have EEA and customs union.
Something very youthful about her underlying face.
Being in a separate Customs Union like Turkey means any country with an FTA with the EU can import into your country tariff free but you do not get the reciprocal rights.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/is-essential-consultants-a-slush-fund-for-donald-trump
The companies have offered varying explanations for their payments, none of them persuasive. A.T. & T. said that it wanted “insights” into the Trump Administration; that is not something you pay the President’s personal attorney to give you, under any circumstances. (Did the company expect the lowdown on Trump’s next moves? That would possibly be a violation of attorney-client privilege.) It is particularly not something you pay for when, as was the case with A.T. & T., you are trying to get Cohen’s client’s other subordinates to approve a merger. That might be topped by Korea Aerospace’s statement saying that it had turned to Essential Consultants for advice on meeting “accounting standards on production costs.” Korea Aerospace, alongside Lockheed Martin, is currently competing for a defense contract. Columbus Nova, acknowledging to the Times that it had paid Essential Consultants a “consulting fee,” concentrated on denying that the payment had anything to do with Vekselberg. Novartis said that it was looking for advice on medical matters—from Cohen, whose experience in this field, as Rolling Stone recently reported, has involved doing legal work for clinics that were, essentially, insurance-fraud mills….
We will pay money annually but FoM will be different. Maybe that is what T May has in mind.
- Customs partnership is rejected
- MaxFac is embraced
- Announcement that first steps are made on the FTA which will prevent the need for a hard border in Ireland because of MaxFac on our only land border
- But the compromise is that we extend the transition, just for SM/CU, to March 2022, to allow time for MaxFac and business readiness
This assuages the CU/SM brigade, allows subsequent divergence to please us Brexiteers, cheers business, keeps the Irish border softer than just remaining in the CU, and also prevents any danger of reversal because it finishes before the next GE.
Happy to help, No. 10, happy to help....especially if you need some peers for a year!
Try again
But if it did we would have have customs borders etc erected and suddenly Ireland will be wanting a deal of some sort. Just like almost every other international border anywhere else in the globe.
Bailiwick of Guernsey
Bailiwick of Jersey
Isle of Man.
So will they stay in The CU while we get given only A CU?
3 of those 7 need to change their minds amidst a relatively sluggish economy which has been growing for almost 9 years...
More than 80k+ mortgages already >2.5% arrears at this low rate: https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/mortgage-arrears-and-possesions-update-february-2018/
If this does happen Brexit will rapidly prove to be popular.
Carney by thine name
Thy mortgage come
Rates will be low
In London as it is in Britain
Give us this day our FTSE boost
For thine is the cheap mortgage
The exporter's and homeowner's friend
At least until you get the sack
Amen.
I can see the posters now.
What has the Labour Party ever done for the son of a Pakistani bus driver from Tooting?
They made him Prime Minister.
i.e. Do ya feel lucky Soubry-punk?
Kenneth Williams "my name is Stuart Farquhar"
Sid James "Stupid What?"
This is the EU's border with a nation it is in a customs union with:
This is the EU's border with a nation it has no customs union with:
I imagine that the Irish would prefer the second to the first so this whole customs farago is nonsense.
We will quickly reincorporate the Republic into the UK, by amphibious assaults against Dublin Bay, Cork and Rosslare, and a two-pronged land-based strike from South Armagh and County Fermanagh!
EDIT: oops, wrong forum
In fact that is exactly what it is.
Why anyone affords them even the slightest bit of credence given recent experiences is beyond me.
As the UK withdrawals from the EU, the current Customs arrangements will cease.
https://www.gov.gg/Brexit
If anything (other than the electorate next time around) does bring down Trump, it will be following the money.
...£2000 in a brown envelope is barely lunch money, these days.