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  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362

    Has Bercow been invited to the funeral? Will he take Sally with him? Can she tweet from St Paul?

    That's just so stupidly grim you know it might happen.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,831
    taffys said:

    HL

    One of the best books I've ever read on WW1 is Gordon Corrgan's 'mud, blood and poppycock'. It explodes all sorts of blackaddering myths about the British army in WW1 and Haig in particular.

    One of the cleverest point Corrigan makes is that Haig had no precedent whatsoever. He commanded an army many times bigger than anything any Briton had ever commanded before.

    Another brilliant point is executions of British servicemen. There were 300 or so, even though there were 3,000 sentences of death by court martial in the field that came across Hague's desk (he had the final say).

    He commuted 9 in 10.

    just bought it - thanks for the tip!

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Thatcher funeral coverage on BBC criticised.

    http://tinyurl.com/cgyyzbk
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    edited April 2013
    I'm sure the point has been made in the last few days on here that Mrs T's EU rebate has been worth £75bn so £10m or whatever for her funeral is peanuts. She was a huge World figure and penny pinching sends out completely the wrong message about Britain. Trust Mr Smithson in his present red tinged glasses once again to pick up on a mean spirited poll in a pathetic little paper.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,380
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    hughp said:

    Avery LP - List of State Funerals etc. What an interesting list ! The decision to have a state funeral for Lord Carson seems really strange, and the decision to have one for Lord Napier of Magdala (whose only claim to fame was a very easy military victory over the Emperor of Ethiopia) must have been questionable even at the time, but otherwise the choice of who to have state funerals for seems to have been remarkably sound, and reflects unexpected credit on those who took the necessary decisions.

    The State funeral of Lord Carson was held in Belfast which did somewhat narrow or focus the field of mourning.

    He was however a Kent boy.

    A Man of Kent or a Kentish Man?

    Born Dublin, died Minster.

    So an adopted son of Kent.
    Ah, an immigrant.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    hughp said:

    Avery LP - List of State Funerals etc. What an interesting list ! The decision to have a state funeral for Lord Carson seems really strange, and the decision to have one for Lord Napier of Magdala (whose only claim to fame was a very easy military victory over the Emperor of Ethiopia) must have been questionable even at the time, but otherwise the choice of who to have state funerals for seems to have been remarkably sound, and reflects unexpected credit on those who took the necessary decisions.

    The State funeral of Lord Carson was held in Belfast which did somewhat narrow or focus the field of mourning.

    He was however a Kent boy.

    A Man of Kent or a Kentish Man?

    Born Dublin, died Minster.

    So an adopted son of Kent.
    Ah, an immigrant.

    But definitely not romany.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,517
    Carlotta's link to Behr's piece in the NS in turn links to this beautifully-phrased argument by a Marxist on why he's not dancing on any graves:

    http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2013/04/six-theses-on-the-death-of-margaret-thatcher.html
  • BoredInParisBoredInParis Posts: 46
    edited April 2013
    taffys said:

    HL

    One of the best books I've ever read on WW1 is Gordon Corrgan's 'mud, blood and poppycock'. It explodes all sorts of blackaddering myths about the British army in WW1 and Haig in particular.

    One of the cleverest point Corrigan makes is that Haig had no precedent whatsoever. He commanded an army many times bigger than anything any Briton had ever commanded before.

    Another brilliant point is executions of British servicemen. There were 300 or so, even though there were 3,000 sentences of death by court martial in the field that came across Hague's desk (he had the final say).

    He commuted 9 in 10.

    It is a book that I would firmly recommend for anyone interested in that war.

    I don't think its necessarily difficult to hold conflicting views of the war - that it was a great waste of life and a long and brutal struggle but also that it was a difficult war to organize and that many of the 'facts' of the war are based in untruths and logical fallacies. It may seem obvious, linking armies to planes to artillery. But only 10 years before the war, there weren't even planes. I imagine you'd find similar statistics about communications and artillery.

    I honestly think people don't tend to consider the level of logistics required to fight a war on any scale. In this one, suddenly, all of the old conventions were blown away and people had to learn on their feet. Of course, it was difficult. Of course, there were mistakes. On top of the usual loss of life in any conflict.

    From another discussion a few months make, I made this contribution that only had a few CiFers attacking it:

    "The casualty rate was highest in junior officers, iirc. And Haig's funeral in the 1920s ended up a national holiday. And the usual nonsense about the tactics - the Somme was designed not to break German lines but relieve the beleaguered French garrisons around Verdun. Once combined arms warfare was designed and implemented, the war quickly ended.

    But the scar the war left affected everything - the ill-fated quest for appeasement in the 1930s, the war-injured on the streets of the UK, the towns and villages left with marble towers mourning a real 'lost generation', talented, clever young men with lives ahead of them.Not all would have been great men, not all would have done great things, but they had the potential to."
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @taffys

    Thanks. I know Corrigan's book and it is rather good. Certainly an essential primer for anyone wanting to study or comment on WW1 - his chapter on why the UK had to join in I found particularly compelling. He certainly explodes a lot of myths.

    On WW1 military executions, frankly so much rubbish has been written about these and so many myths established as truth that I long ago gave up entering any debate on the subject.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AveryLP said:



    He was however a Kent boy.

    Is there no Irishman you wont claim? He was a Dubliner!

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Carlotta's link to Behr's piece in the NS in turn links to this beautifully-phrased argument by a Marxist on why he's not dancing on any graves:

    http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2013/04/six-theses-on-the-death-of-margaret-thatcher.html

    Excellent, Nick.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2013
    MORI polling data for Mrs T - slideshow. Slide 6 is very interesting.

    http://www.slideshare.net/IpsosMORI/margaret-thatcher-poll-rating-trends
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Neil said:

    AveryLP said:



    He was however a Kent boy.

    Is there no Irishman you wont claim? He was a Dubliner!

    Catch up, Neil, catch up!

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362
    Neil said:

    AveryLP said:



    He was however a Kent boy.

    Is there no Irishman you wont claim? He was a Dubliner!

    Jedward.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    Catch up, Neil, catch up!

    You'll be claiming the Iron Duke next, Avery!

  • Carlotta's link to Behr's piece in the NS in turn links to this beautifully-phrased argument by a Marxist on why he's not dancing on any graves:

    http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2013/04/six-theses-on-the-death-of-margaret-thatcher.html

    That is really good. Thanks.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    antifrank said:

    It's a little rich to expect the Thatcher estate to pay for a state-provided ceremonial funeral. I can understand the view that Margaret Thatcher should not have been provided with a ceremonial funeral (I'm pretty ambivalent on the subject). But if she is to be given one, the state has to pay.

    If you throw a party for a guest of honour, you don't send them an invoice afterwards for the cost.

    Have you organised a wedding recently? I'm a bit surprised at what passes for normal procedure these days.

    It sounds like £5,000 per head for those in the Cathedral would pay for the whole thing, and most of those said to be attending could afford that without a second thought.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    He certainly explodes a lot of myths.

    I was astonished when I found out British regiments did not generally spend 6 months at a time waist deep in water.

    All regiments were rotated through the line on a weekly or bi weekly basis. Still horrible of course, but not at all what we are led to believe.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT - am thinking of watching Lost - what's it like? I see there are 6 series...
  • I may be missing something but isn't all of this out of Cameron's hands? Wasn't it all decided under Blair and would it not be going against the wishes of Her Majesty?

    It seems to me that the propagandists of the left are creating their own little fantasy world again (the real one rarely fits their zealotry).....

    PS How convenient that it is a poll from the Mirror. First of rule polling. Pollsters won't keep getting work if they don't find in the way their clients want....
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Neil said:


    Catch up, Neil, catch up!

    You'll be claiming the Iron Duke next, Avery!

    We can trade him for the Iron Lady, Neil!

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    Can tim explain why William Hague is so often being photographed out and about with Angelina Jolie?

    They make a fine couple.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AveryLP said:


    We can trade him for the Iron Lady, Neil!

    Can we agree on sending the bill for the funeral to the Germans?

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Neil said:

    AveryLP said:


    We can trade him for the Iron Lady, Neil!

    Can we agree on sending the bill for the funeral to the Germans?

    A Kaiser Bill.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362
    AveryLP said:

    Can tim explain why William Hague is so often being photographed out and about with Angelina Jolie?

    They make a fine couple.

    Skinheads often have tattooed molls, it's not uncommon.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Some enquired about the ages of Nancy Reagan and Gorby earlier - since they can't attend - is this chappy the oldest confirmed guest so far?

    RT @MichaelLCrick: Sir Clive Bossom, 95, confirms he'll go to Thatcher funeral. He was MT's PPS when she was junior pensions minister under Macmillan early 60s
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Plato said:

    OT - am thinking of watching Lost - what's it like? I see there are 6 series...</blockquo
    It is totally unbelievable,worth watching to how really bad a series can be

  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    edited April 2013
    I think it's a shame more politicians don't engage fully with Wikipedia (as a Wikipedian). The page-views are modest (thousands a day), but if you could create a well-written biography it would be interesting to a wide audience, and most politicians would love people to know where they come from both literally and metaphorically.

    (NPXMP of this borough's Wikipedia article is unobjectionable.)
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Jonathan said:

    ... if the Tories are serious about moving to the right and think the election can be won there, they'll need a new leader to do it.

    Tony Blair thought the Tories could win from the right.

    http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/viewer.html?doc=202593-doc27
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    RT @bbcthisweek: For those wanting to apply for recorded #bbctw special & can be at a London venue 2000-2230 on Thu May 2, apply here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21929412
  • I know there are fans on here, so I just thought I'd mention that tickets for Depeche Mode's new tour go on sale tomorrow.

    Got mine for an extra date in Manchester in November today!

  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Plato..my comment seems to have tagged on to yours..It really is a terrible series,but do watch it to spot the errors..
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    edited April 2013
    @Mike "......particuarly after the speech by the mum of Dan Hodges, Glenda Jackson.

    What's wrong with 'Double Oscar Winning Actress' or even 'MP for Hampstead and Highgate?'

    Mother of the wretched Dan is just unkind.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Plato..my comment seems to have tagged on to yours..It really is a terrible series,but do watch it to spot the errors..

    Ha! Will do.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,380
    edited April 2013
    BoredinParis posted, inter alia: "The casualty rate was highest in junior officers, iirc."

    There was some work done in Scotland about 5 years ago (I think) which showed that, of the cohorts at school in specific year the late 20's and early 30's, the brightest young men had the shortest lives.
    An 11 year old in 1927 or so was of course 22 in 1939.

    Can't remember the title of the study!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,517
    Grandiose said:

    I think it's a shame more politicians don't engage fully with Wikipedia (as a Wikipedian). The page-views are modest (thousands a day), but if you could create a well-written biography it would be interesting to a wide audience, and most politicians would love people to know where they come from both literally and metaphorically.

    (NPXMP of this borough's Wikipedia article is unobjectionable.)

    I didn't write it, but I've used it a lot in my international travels for my non-partisan work - I've found it opens doors to have a Wikipedia entry as it somehow legitimises you. I think a lot of politicians are shy of the rules about editing these things about themselves - they think they'll get done over by the media if they say anything remotely positive.
  • Why on earth is that idiot Barroso being invited to Maggie's funeral?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    The Spectator are looking for a researcher:
    "If you can make a scatter graph in Excel then you have all the expertise required. What matters most of all is flair, resourcefulness and capacity for hard work."

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/04/wanted-researcher/
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    Plato said:

    Some enquired about the ages of Nancy Reagan and Gorby earlier - since they can't attend - is this chappy the oldest confirmed guest so far?

    RT @MichaelLCrick: Sir Clive Bossom, 95, confirms he'll go to Thatcher funeral. He was MT's PPS when she was junior pensions minister under Macmillan early 60s

    Gorby is still relatively young, only 82, but he hasn't been seen out and about much since 2009.

    Using illness as an excuse to avoid overseas travel or unwanted meetings was standard practice in the Soviet Union.

    It is possible it is being used here as Gorbachev never subscribed to the view that the end of communism resulted from the hardline opposition of Reagan and Thatcher. Attending Thatcher's funeral would only give vent to further propagation of this unwanted 'myth'.

    There is also a possibility that current Russian government policy is to marginalise Britain and to undermine the US-UK "special relationship". Whilst I accept this would be current thinking in the Kremlin, I am more inclined to believe that it would act as a spur to Gorbachev to act against official policy.

    I also think the Kremlin should be more concerned with Dave and Angela holing up in Meseburg for the weekend. But Putin only has himself to blame here: the Camerons will be taking their children but not the family dog!

    As for Nancy Reagan, I believe she really is too frail to attend. Her last public engagement was 2009 in the White House and that showed her to be knocking at the gates of heaven. She is ten years older than Gorby. Still, she may never have forgiven Maggie for stealing her Ronnie's affections. Attending the funeral would at least enable us to determine whether she is more Queen Victoria than Vicky Pryce.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    Glad to see Jeremy Clarkson has been invited to the funeral. Obviously going to be a classy affair.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413

    I've used it a lot in my international travels for my non-partisan work - I've found it opens doors to have a Wikipedia entry as it somehow legitimises you.

    Do you also use your portfolio of SeanT quotes?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Roger said:

    Glad to see Jeremy Clarkson has been invited to the funeral. Obviously going to be a classy affair.

    Roger.

    I am so relieved to find you alive and kicking.

  • Roger said:

    Glad to see Jeremy Clarkson has been invited to the funeral. Obviously going to be a classy affair.

    It's got Blair's Mrs as well, now that's really classy.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    @Avery

    Is Brad with the SpAd?

    Only if he hasn't watched Fight Club.

    But then SpAd's often lack life experience.

    Who knows, tim?

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013

    BoredinParis posted, inter alia: "The casualty rate was highest in junior officers, iirc."

    There was some work done in Scotland about 5 years ago (I think) which showed that, of the cohorts at school in specific year the late 20's and early 30's, the brightest young men had the shortest lives.
    An 11 year old in 1927 or so was of course 22 in 1939.

    Can't remember the title of the study!

    OKC.

    Personal memories of WWI were still fresh when I was at prep school in the sixties. Our headmaster had been a pupil at the school at the turn of the century and later went on to fight in WWI.

    On Remembrance Day, he used to read out a separate list of names from the main roll of honour, all of whom were his contemporaries and each of whom had slept in a single named dormitory still being used by the school. Of the eight in the dormitory only one, he himself, had survived the war.

    This special remembrance has had a very strong effect on me since. Especially as it led to my contemporaries, sometimes frivolously but also ghoulishly, speculating on who would have been the survivor in their own dormitory.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280
    "The Tories are badly overplaying the Thatcher cards and it's going to hurt them unless they rein in their hubris soon."

    I quite agree. There should have been a normal funeral, paid for by the family, followed by a memorial service, attended by the great and the good, not all this expensive pomposity / recalls of Parliament and all the rest of it.

    She was a public servant not the Head of State. The responses given by political parties (all of them) when she died were dignified, decent and appropriate (Ed Milliband got this very right and deserves credit - he has gone up in my estimation). And that was all that was needed.

    Now we're going to get the same hoo-ha over every other PM/accusations of bias etc. All very unnecessary
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,873
    'in the week of her demise the country is still totally split over Mrs. Thatcher'

    My country seems reasonably unified.

    “Margaret Thatcher deserves a ceremonial funeral with full military honours like the Queen Mother and Princess Diana”
    North & Scotland Agree 29% Disagree 51%
    “The Thatcher family, rather than the taxpayer, should pay the bulk of the estimated £10million cost for Margaret Thatcher’s ceremonial funeral”
    North & Scotland Agree 60% Disagree 19%
    “It is appropriate to spend taxpayer’s money on a ceremonial funeral for Margaret Thatcher at the present time”
    North & Scotland Agree 18% Disagree 62%
    “Margaret Thatcher changed Britain – for the better”
    North & Scotland Agree 32% Disagree 45%
    “David Cameron was right to describe Margaret Thatcher as the greatest British peacetime Prime Minister”
    North & Scotland Agree 35% Disagree 44%
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Roger said:

    Glad to see Jeremy Clarkson has been invited to the funeral. Obviously going to be a classy affair.

    It's got Blair's Mrs as well, now that's really classy.
    And Mr and Mrs Terry Wogan - its an all star cast...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Oh good - someone else Maggie has pissed off:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9987468/Margaret-Thatcher-funeral-no-Cristina-Kirchner-invite-another-provocation.html

    "Argentina has criticised the decision to not invite Cristina Kirchner to Margaret Thatcher's funeral, describing it as "another provocation", with regards to the Falkland Islands."

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216



    My country seems reasonably unified.

    North & Scotland

    So you're part of 'The North' now?

    Jolly good....
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013

    Oh good - someone else Maggie has pissed off:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9987468/Margaret-Thatcher-funeral-no-Cristina-Kirchner-invite-another-provocation.html

    "Argentina has criticised the decision to not invite Cristina Kirchner to Margaret Thatcher's funeral, describing it as "another provocation", with regards to the Falkland Islands."

    Might just have been a clever FCO ploy.

    Announce she is not invited, wait for her to complain, then backtrack and issue the invitation.

    What does she do then?

    Much better than giving her the opportunity to flamboyantly decline an original invitation.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2013
    AveryLP said:


    Might just have been a clever FCO ploy.

    Yeeeeeeees, as Jeremy Paxman might say....

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Oh look! A row in the US too!

    "DEMOCRATS ARE BLOCKING RESOLUTION TO HONOR LADY THATCHER"

    http://heritageaction.com/2013/04/democrats-are-blocking-resolution-to-honor-lady-thatcher/

    I wonder if these are 'Irish Freedom Fighting Funders' Democrats?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I stopped reading at "Survation Mirror"

    They should have asked

    "Do you agree that cute nurses should be sacked whilst whilst we splash out millions on an funeral for ex Tory PM Maggie Fatcha" ?

    Perhaps they should do a poll every time the royal family leave the house - as that isn't cheap either.

    Surprised such an obvious push poll got a thread to itself to be honest.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AveryLP said:


    Might just have been a clever FCO ploy.

    Is there no end to Hague's talents? Who else would be capable of running rings 'round the President of Argentina while entertaining Angelina Jolie?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    CV

    It's a shame Kirchner isn't going. Looks like she's well up for all-in hair pulling girly fighting in inappropriate places, like outside a church.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:


    Might just have been a clever FCO ploy.

    Yeeeeeeees, as Jeremy Paxman might say....

    Jeremy Paxman? I trust he hasn't been invited.

    The BBC should know their place. Their job is to cover the funeral not attend it.

    You will be telling me Chris Patten has been invited next.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,873



    So you're part of 'The North' now?

    Jolly good....

    Geographically, indubitably. However feel free to make the case that if it wasn't for those pesky Scousers and Geordies skewing the figures, Scotland would be shown to be jumping at the chance to provide Magrit's funeral meats.

  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    AveryLP said:

    Might just have been a clever FCO ploy.

    Announce she is not invited, wait for her to complain, then backtrack and issue the invitation.

    What does she do then?

    Much better than giving her the opportunity to flamboyantly decline an original invitation.

    I expect they were so overwhelmed by her gracious letter of condolences that they they forgot to include her.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    I wonder if these are 'Irish Freedom Fighting Funders' Democrats?

    Support for the IRA wasnt limited to the Democratic party, Carlotta.

    See, for instance, the odious Peter Thomas King:

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_T._King
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    "Today’s reaction to the former prime minister’s article in the New Statesman certainly has an air of: ‘so what does three-time election winner Tony Blair think he knows about winning elections?’"

    http://labourlist.org/2013/04/labours-angry-brigade-has-misunderstood-blairs-message/
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Something for tim and all the other lefties (and fruitcakes) who keep going on about Cam's and Os's capabilities. This government has achieved more than in 2+ years than Labour did in 13 years - and I've not included stuff including education....
    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451b31c69e2017d4247fd90970c-pi
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Neil said:

    AveryLP said:


    Might just have been a clever FCO ploy.

    Is there no end to Hague's talents?
    Not that I have discovered, Neil.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    tim said:


    Thats not true is it?

    Dont be cynical. It was announced. Doesnt that make it true?

  • RicardohosRicardohos Posts: 258
    Good article Mike. I know a lot of people think MT was great, but I've been surprised by the extent of both antipathy and ambivalence towards her. On both counts there's no doubt Cameron and the Righteous Right have so over-played their hand that they've generated a backlash.
    I think the main element though is that this is so long ago. To be honest, I don't think the majority of voters now give much hoot about it. Those days are long gone, the nation moved on and the biggest problem all this serves is to illustrate that the Conservatives don't seem to have.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Support for the IRA wasnt limited to the Democratic party, Carlotta.

    I remember when Gerry Adams went to the states, he would be asked some hilariously uninformed questions by the media such as; why don't the British just let the Irish rule themselves???

    Adams: ......err......

    Even more hilariously, the Brits send Michael Mates to counter Adams. Talk about the old club f8rt with the soup stained tie dozing on the chesterfield in the corner...
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    If Jimmy Saville had still been alive would he have been on the invite list? He did of course, spend a few Christmas hols with the Thatchers.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    If Jimmy Saville had still been alive would he have been on the invite list? He did of course, spend a few Christmas hols with the Thatchers.

    According to him - but not backed up by the official record. But believe a serial child molester, why not?

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    If Jimmy Saville had still been alive would he have been on the invite list? He did of course, spend a few Christmas hols with the Thatchers.



    Obvious trolling - but unlikely as he would have been on remand facing trial.

    All this indulging tim is rubbing off on you.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    "This government has achieved more than in 2+ years than Labour did in 13 years - and I've not included stuff including education"

    Yes Plato was peddling that load of nonsense months ago. You must be one of Con Home's junior apprentices if you're still being asked to sell that.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,873

    If Jimmy Saville had still been alive would he have been on the invite list? He did of course, spend a few Christmas hols with the Thatchers.

    A couple of tiddlers in the net already.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,602
    If you treat a politician like royalty it is bound to be controversial.

    Personally I have no problem with a public funeral, but there is something moderately ironic about the champion of all things private getting her funeral on the state.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893

    If Jimmy Saville had still been alive would he have been on the invite list? He did of course, spend a few Christmas hols with the Thatchers.

    Don't be absurd.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    If Jimmy Saville had still been alive would he have been on the invite list? He did of course, spend a few Christmas hols with the Thatchers.

    A couple of tiddlers in the net already.
    And the Great Wail - Alax Salmond has confirmed, according to the BBC.....

  • If Jimmy Saville had still been alive would he have been on the invite list? He did of course, spend a few Christmas hols with the Thatchers.

    I suppose that depends if the BBC and others had reacted to some of the whistle blowers, and grassed him to the feds. Anyway, I thought we couldn't talk about him on here?

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    I may be missing something but isn't all of this out of Cameron's hands? Wasn't it all decided

    It was all decided but the Prime Minister ripped up the arrangements, much to the surprise of the Speaker. As the OP says, Cameron may have misread the public mood.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362
    Jonathan said:

    If you treat a politician like royalty it is bound to be controversial.

    Personally I have no problem with a public funeral, but there is something moderately ironic about the champion of all things private getting her funeral on the state.

    Given she's dead I doubt they've consulted her on the matter.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Cyclefree said:

    "The Tories are badly overplaying the Thatcher cards and it's going to hurt them unless they rein in their hubris soon."

    I quite agree. There should have been a normal funeral, paid for by the family, followed by a memorial service, attended by the great and the good, not all this expensive pomposity / recalls of Parliament and all the rest of it.

    She was a public servant not the Head of State. The responses given by political parties (all of them) when she died were dignified, decent and appropriate (Ed Milliband got this very right and deserves credit - he has gone up in my estimation). And that was all that was needed.

    Now we're going to get the same hoo-ha over every other PM/accusations of bias etc. All very unnecessary

    Hmm tend to agree. Clearly something dignified and respectful and somewhat out the the ordinary was called for but it does seem a bit overblown (though it is a quietish time news wise - Easter recess and all - unless Kim in N Korea plays with the matches too enthusiastically) and the meeja have to report something.

    Ed M was good yesterday but I don't think his task was a tough as made out in that once you are generous you will in all liklihood get the plaudits. Still he tucked the chance away nicely, so to speak, and I don't think wall to wall Mrs T is playing as well as some in Tory HQ might've thought.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2013

    I may be missing something but isn't all of this out of Cameron's hands? Wasn't it all decided

    It was all decided but the Prime Minister ripped up the arrangements, much to the surprise of the Speaker. As the OP says, Cameron may have misread the public mood.
    Source?

    Apart from The Guardian - which has already been knocked back on some details today....

    And even the Guardian didn't claim that the decision on the Ceremonial Funeral other than pre-dates Cameron's premiership.....
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362
    tim said:

    Perhaps of more interest is whether the letters between Thatcher and Savile will now be released uncensored.

    Censored, Savile's private letters to Mrs Thatcher: Files edited two months ago... AFTER child abuse claims surfaced
    Letter from Jimmy Savile to former PM released under 30-year rule
    Declares his love for her in gushing 1980 note written following a lunch
    Also refers to his 'girl patients' and says 'they all love you'
    But other correspondence between the two has been censored
    Savile spent 11 consecutive New Year's Eves with Mrs Thatcher



    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2253929/Jimmy-Saviles-private-letters-Margaret-Thatcher-Files-edited-2-months-ago.html#ixzz2QAeQa676
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    maybe they've gone the same way as Tony's expenses.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2013
    tim said:

    Savile spent 11 consecutive New Year's Eves with Mrs Thatcher

    According to Savile, and not the official Chequers log - but nice to see you are still peddling the lies of one of the UK's most prolific child molestors....

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013

    If Jimmy Saville had still been alive would he have been on the invite list? He did of course, spend a few Christmas hols with the Thatchers.

    What would concern me more, Mike, would be allowing UKIP youth leaders to pay their last respects to the Blessed Margaret while she is lying in the Chapel of St Mary Undercroft.

    And it is not the closet racists, loonies and fruitcakes which worry me.


  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    edited April 2013
    "It's got Blair's Mrs as well, now that's really classy."

    A pity Jade Goody is no longer with us. Perhaps Sir Mark or the Honorable Carole can persuade Jordan
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2013
    tim said:

    @Carlotta

    How many visits to Chequers are shown in the records you have seen?

    Two - neither at Christmas nor New Year.

    How many have you seen?

    http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article89849.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/image-6-for-the-real-jimmy-saville-gallery-396885890.jpg

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Gordon Brown ruined the life of more children than old Jimmy - and he got an invite.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    AveryLP said:

    hughp said:

    Avery LP - List of State Funerals etc. What an interesting list ! The decision to have a state funeral for Lord Carson seems really strange, and the decision to have one for Lord Napier of Magdala (whose only claim to fame was a very easy military victory over the Emperor of Ethiopia) must have been questionable even at the time, but otherwise the choice of who to have state funerals for seems to have been remarkably sound, and reflects unexpected credit on those who took the necessary decisions.

    The State funeral of Lord Carson was held in Belfast which did somewhat narrow or focus the field of mourning.

    He was however a Kent boy.

    Which bit of being born and brought up in Castle Lambert, Athenry, sitting as the MP for TCD, serving as Solicitor General for Ireland, and finally walking 'the high road to treason and despair' makes him a Kent boy?

    As an aside - I'm surprised that he had a state funeral (fan of his though I am). Could the decision have been made by Stormont?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    tim said:

    @Carlotta.

    Every Newspaper in the country has reported "regular" visits and a number of New Years Eves.

    All from the same secondary source - Savile's autobiography.....but you go right ahead and believe him....

    .....I had wondered how you'd try to smear Thatcher....now we know.....

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,228
    edited April 2013
    As OGH has now lifted the embargo on discussing Jimmy Savile I wonder whether he could answer a question I asked him months ago, which was this:

    "As a former BBC employee did you ever hear any rumours about Jimmy Saville being a child abuser?"
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362
    tim said:

    @Carlotta.

    Every Newspaper in the country has reported "regular" visits and a number of New Years Eves.

    these would be the same newspapers Labour wants to gag presumably ?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362

    tim said:

    @Carlotta.

    Every Newspaper in the country has reported "regular" visits and a number of New Years Eves.

    All from the same secondary source - Savile's autobiography.....but you go right ahead and believe him....

    .....I had wondered how you'd try to smear Thatcher....now we know.....

    Tim'll Fix It.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Can we re-ban discussion of Jimmy Saville? Please?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854


    ".....I had wondered how you'd try to smear Thatcher....now we know....."

    Thatcher-like Saville-is unsmearable.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Roger said:

    Thatcher-like Saville-is unsmearable.

    Real class Roger, former PM equivalent to Britain's most prolific child molester....
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Charles said:

    AveryLP said:

    hughp said:

    Avery LP - List of State Funerals etc. What an interesting list ! The decision to have a state funeral for Lord Carson seems really strange, and the decision to have one for Lord Napier of Magdala (whose only claim to fame was a very easy military victory over the Emperor of Ethiopia) must have been questionable even at the time, but otherwise the choice of who to have state funerals for seems to have been remarkably sound, and reflects unexpected credit on those who took the necessary decisions.

    The State funeral of Lord Carson was held in Belfast which did somewhat narrow or focus the field of mourning.

    He was however a Kent boy.

    Which bit of being born and brought up in Castle Lambert, Athenry, sitting as the MP for TCD, serving as Solicitor General for Ireland, and finally walking 'the high road to treason and despair' makes him a Kent boy?

    As an aside - I'm surprised that he had a state funeral (fan of his though I am). Could the decision have been made by Stormont?
    Died at his home in Minster, near Canterbury, Charles.

    As to who made the decision it would have to have been Parliament on motion by the government under Baldwin.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,772
    Neil said:

    Can we re-ban discussion of Jimmy Saville? Please?

    Mike started it....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2013
    tim said:

    @Carlotta

    Could you link to the eleven New Years Eve's "official records" please.

    You made the claim that he'd been to 11 New Years - you back it up....

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,736
    I must second the motion set down by Mr. Neil.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    If Jimmy Saville had still been alive would he have been on the invite list? He did of course, spend a few Christmas hols with the Thatchers.

    My ghast has seldom been so flabbered. This from a man who banned any comment on the Saville affair.

    Disgusted from Hurstpierpoint.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    According to the Mail (which I glimpsed but didn't touch in my local coffee bar) Bobby Charlton was a big fan.

    The guardian used to say he had an educated left foot.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362

    If Jimmy Saville had still been alive would he have been on the invite list? He did of course, spend a few Christmas hols with the Thatchers.

    My ghast has seldom been so flabbered. This from a man who banned any comment on the Saville affair.

    Disgusted from Hurstpierpoint.
    Site traffic must be well down.
This discussion has been closed.