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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,685
    edited September 2013
    taffys said:

    This is one of the biggest disconnects between the rulers and the ruled.

    One of the points made on the Guardian site is that this garment is being worn not for religious purposes, but to challenge the cultural norms of a free democracy. Its a political garment, not a religious one.

    It's hard not to agree with that.

    The only problem for me is enforcement. Imagine being a copper having to nick muslim women for wearing burqas. The lawyers will have a field day.

    They shouldn't be banned in ordinary public situations, just disapproved of. Where they should be banned is in places like schools, colleges, courtrooms, etc.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Of course if it was banned then it wouldn't quite as free a democracy and they would have succeeded with their challenge.''

    Maybe Neil. Does this mean you would sanction the wearing of brownshirts? That's also a political garment, not a religious one, after all.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    taffys said:


    Does this mean you would sanction the wearing of brownshirts?

    I'm not aware that anyone needs my permission to made dubious fashion statements. You should see the shoes TSE goes out in.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ideally women who don't want to wear them would wear something else - without fear of reprisal from within their own communities.

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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited September 2013
    ''Every bleeding heart do gooder will march down the street in a burka, trying to get arrested.''

    Certainly a problem.

    By the way TFS, your image of a woman wearing Agent Provocateur under her burqa whilst chatting politely to relatives is one I've found difficult to shrug off in the past 24 hours.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    I have to confess that I was concerned with the amount of leeway that the Judge apparently gave to the defendant in the recent case. I do not think it is enough for the defendant to show her face when she is giving evidence. Her reaction to the evidence against her is something that juries can and do properly take into account. That should not be hidden from them.

    It also seems to me that it makes it too easy for her not to give evidence and claim an unfair trial as a result. If she had to be uncovered throughout the court proceedings no such argument could be made.

    The charge she faces is a serious one. If convicted she may well be sent to jail. I am not aware of the Prison service allowing those sentenced to wear such clothing. I would have thought the security risk would be unacceptable.

    More generally I am concerned that in indulging this societal norm (and it is not a religous requirement as shown by the countries in the world where muslims do not wear such outfits) we are accepting something that allows women to be treated as different and second class citizens, something to be hidden away and not to take an equal part in our society. The patriarchal mindset and attitudes behind the burqa are contrary to our societal principles and beliefs. I would stop it.

    Dan Hodges makes a good argument for the opposite view but he assumes that this is the free choice of the women. I just don't believe they have a choice which they can freely express. That needs to change.

    The French are not often right but there is an exception to every rule and this might just be it.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756
    taffys said:

    ''Every bleeding heart do gooder will march down the street in a burka, trying to get arrested.''

    Certainly a problem.

    By the way TFS, your image of a woman wearing Agent Provocateur under her burqa whilst chatting politely to relatives is one I've found difficult to shrug off in the past 24 hours.

    I'm beginning to think TFS was talking about himself ;-)
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    Neil said:

    taffys said:


    Does this mean you would sanction the wearing of brownshirts?

    I'm not aware that anyone needs my permission to made dubious fashion statements. You should see the shoes TSE goes out in.
    My awesome shoes (as worn at the PB meet, which still gives Ave It, nightmares)

    TSEofPB ‏@TSEofPB 20 Apr

    My awesome shoes

    pic.twitter.com/maKTXh36KL
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    sladeslade Posts: 1,932
    More random jottings from the Lib Dem conference in Glasgow.
    The biggest attendance in a debate yet for the defence policy motion. Although the motion was comprehensive most of the debate was on Trident, as was the crucial vote. The victory for the official line was partly due to some sections of the 'peace' movement in the party accepting that it could mean disarmament in practice.
    Although not the biggest ever I am still reassured by the attendance. For every attendee in the main auditorium there will be 2,3, or 4 in training sessions, Q and A's with ministers or in the bars.
    Just looking through the 6.15 fringe meetings I am intrigued by Lib Dem Women and Mining. But they are not offering ' snap' so probably not.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Neil said:

    taffys said:


    Does this mean you would sanction the wearing of brownshirts?

    I'm not aware that anyone needs my permission to made dubious fashion statements. You should see the shoes TSE goes out in.
    My awesome shoes (as worn at the PB meet, which still gives Ave It, nightmares)

    TSEofPB ‏@TSEofPB 20 Apr

    My awesome shoes

    pic.twitter.com/maKTXh36KL
    Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore.....
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    taffys said:

    ''Every bleeding heart do gooder will march down the street in a burka, trying to get arrested.''

    Certainly a problem.

    By the way TFS, your image of a woman wearing Agent Provocateur under her burqa whilst chatting politely to relatives is one I've found difficult to shrug off in the past 24 hours.

    I'm beginning to think TFS was talking about himself ;-)
    It's certainly a mischievous idea, if it does get banned, but the Mrs would kill me if I stretched her expensive knicks. It would certainly put the arresting officer on the back foot, might give me time to effect an escape.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Great news for Eck

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10315370/NIESR-Independent-Scotland-would-face-decade-of-economic-pain.html

    "The National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) found that a separate Scotland would start life with a “substantial amount” of debt that would need to be reduced over its first 10 years.
    According to its calculations, the money markets would charge a separate Scotland, as a new state, billions of pounds more interest than the UK on its borrowing.

    The economists said that ministers would have to squeeze Scotland's budget by 5.4 per cent to get their finances in order, requiring cuts in public spending or increases in taxation.
    However, they warned this may not be enough if there was an economic shock and Scotland may require control over its own monetary policy, such as interest rates, to stabilise its finances.

    This would mean a separate Scotland having to adopt its own currency as keeping sterling would mean monetary policy being dictated by the Bank of England."

    Based on the NIESR estimates, the Treasury said a separate Scotland would have paid £3 billion more in interest on its borrowing between 2013/14 and 2017/18 than if it had remained part of the UK.
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    TGOHF said:

    Of the 11 LD MPs fighting as 1st time incumbents, 6 have Labour as the main rival.

    When you say main rival do you mean LAB in 2nd place?
    Mainly, but in Cambridge with C in 2nd, Lab are realistically the challenger . The Lab figure could be higher.
    Cambridge last time out Labour grabbed 3rd from the jaws of victory - not helped by their Nazi saluting candidate - who is fighting the seat again.

    The gentrification (caused by a "house price bubble" (c) tim ) is happening slowly inside the city - long term Labour look doomed.

    'Gentrification' in Cambridge simply means that the prices of houses and flats are through the roof. There seems to be little demographic change.

    One Smithson theory that seems to be on the money: it states that the tories are not trying hard enough this close to a GE to win it. He quotes direct experience in Bedford, and claims, accurately, that there is lack of tory activity on the ground all over the country.

    In Cambridge, a three-way marginal held in a university seat by the LDs, the tory candidate is, er, not selected yet.

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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    slade said:


    Just looking through the 6.15 fringe meetings I am intrigued by Lib Dem Women and Mining. But they are not offering ' snap' so probably not.

    You could come to my fringe at 615! (SECC Alsk 2) - pb solidarity and all that? (I don't mind if you're wearing a burqa.) We have the most expensive nibbles on the planet - we asked for vegan and the conference centre said urgh, you don't want our nice chicken nibbles, we'll need to make yours SPECIALLY and it'll COST you.



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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983



    In Cambridge, a three-way marginal held in a university seat by the LDs, the tory candidate is, er, not selected yet.

    Maybe they'll endorse you! ;)
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    Paul Waugh‏@paulwaugh16s
    The EdMilipanda tumblr is up and running. Look into my eyes, not around the eyes, into my eyes...http://edmilipanda.tumblr.com

    The Pandabrothers is the best one.

    More cutting political insight from scraptowers. Labour, ahead, economy, jobs.... bale, gone.

    Shakes head at least Lab maj is nailed on.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Neil said:



    In Cambridge, a three-way marginal held in a university seat by the LDs, the tory candidate is, er, not selected yet.

    Maybe they'll endorse you! ;)
    The Con finished 2nd last time with virtually zero ground game.

    Kippers seemed to do well in the county but didn't feature in the city much.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633



    TGOHF said:

    Of the 11 LD MPs fighting as 1st time incumbents, 6 have Labour as the main rival.

    When you say main rival do you mean LAB in 2nd place?
    Mainly, but in Cambridge with C in 2nd, Lab are realistically the challenger . The Lab figure could be higher.
    Cambridge last time out Labour grabbed 3rd from the jaws of victory - not helped by their Nazi saluting candidate - who is fighting the seat again.

    The gentrification (caused by a "house price bubble" (c) tim ) is happening slowly inside the city - long term Labour look doomed.

    'Gentrification' in Cambridge simply means that the prices of houses and flats are through the roof. There seems to be little demographic change.



    I'd disagree with that - a lot - but it would be all anecdotal based on 16yrs of living there.

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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:



    In Cambridge, a three-way marginal held in a university seat by the LDs, the tory candidate is, er, not selected yet.

    Maybe they'll endorse you! ;)
    The Con finished 2nd last time with virtually zero ground game.

    Were the Tory students shipped around to marginals instead? Or not quite fit to be let loose on people's doorsteps?
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    We would be happy to have Lembit as a candidate in our constituency.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:



    In Cambridge, a three-way marginal held in a university seat by the LDs, the tory candidate is, er, not selected yet.

    Maybe they'll endorse you! ;)
    The Con finished 2nd last time with virtually zero ground game.

    Were the Tory students shipped around to marginals instead? Or not quite fit to be let loose on people's doorsteps?
    No idea - I had lots of leaflets and doorstep visits from LDs and Labour - even the good doctor Huppert himself.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    edited September 2013
    @TGOHF

    I would like to think it is the fault of the Telegraph, who had a political writer reporting on this rather than someone with a business brief, but that article struck me as almost incoherent.

    I would certainly accept that an independent Scotland would have to pay more to borrow until it got a "track record" but why this would need Scotland to have its own currency is very unclear.

    I can certainly see that when base rates start to rise to deal with a bubble in London and the SE that could be very uncomfortable for a Scotland where house prices are still falling but I don't see how that could require Scotland to have "its own interest rates". Most relevant rates are fixed by the market in any event, not by governments.

    If Scotland were running a surplus, something that would take the elimination of several of the SNP goodies and quite a bit more tax, then it seems likely to me that their historic debt, which might well have a joint and several liability with RUK, would cost no more than it does at the moment. It may be different as that debt was rolled over but this would be a long term matter which would depend on how much new debt, if any, Scotland was taking on. Why this would involve selling or mortgaging the income flow from the north sea was also obscure.

    Not a great bit of work really.
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    Breakfast in bed? Terrified man finds an 8ft crocodile hidden under his bed after it spent entire night just inches from where he slept

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2423311/Man-40-finds-8ft-crocodile-hidden-bed-spent-entire-night-just-inches-slept.html#ixzz2fALTjAh1
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    DavidL said:

    @TGOHF

    I would like to think it is the fault of the Telegraph, who had a political writer reporting on this rather than someone with a business brief, but that article struck me as almost incoherent.

    Not a great bit of work really.

    Here's the link to the report

    http://niesr.ac.uk/press/scotland’s-currency-options-11595#.Ujh7FcbksYk

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    Lembit Opik = Bit like mop
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    Theresa May on Sky News talking about the Daniel Pelka case, uttering that worthless platitude "Lessons have been learned". Clearly, they haven't learned. Not until someone loses their job, or goes to prison for criminal negligence.

    To stop letting politicians off the hook, interviewers' first question to them should be 'what lessons have been learned?'.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:



    In Cambridge, a three-way marginal held in a university seat by the LDs, the tory candidate is, er, not selected yet.

    Maybe they'll endorse you! ;)
    The Con finished 2nd last time with virtually zero ground game.

    Were the Tory students shipped around to marginals instead? Or not quite fit to be let loose on people's doorsteps?
    No idea - I had lots of leaflets and doorstep visits from LDs and Labour - even the good doctor Huppert himself.

    I'm glad he survived the experience! ;)
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:

    TGOHF said:

    Neil said:



    In Cambridge, a three-way marginal held in a university seat by the LDs, the tory candidate is, er, not selected yet.

    Maybe they'll endorse you! ;)
    The Con finished 2nd last time with virtually zero ground game.

    Were the Tory students shipped around to marginals instead? Or not quite fit to be let loose on people's doorsteps?
    No idea - I had lots of leaflets and doorstep visits from LDs and Labour - even the good doctor Huppert himself.

    I'm glad he survived the experience! ;)
    He didn't have his record to defend back then - I went easy ;)
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    TGOHF said:

    DavidL said:

    @TGOHF

    I would like to think it is the fault of the Telegraph, who had a political writer reporting on this rather than someone with a business brief, but that article struck me as almost incoherent.

    Not a great bit of work really.

    Here's the link to the report

    http://niesr.ac.uk/press/scotland’s-currency-options-11595#.Ujh7FcbksYk

    Thanks. I don't have time to read it all just now but the executive summary is as unconvincing as the Telegraph, if a little more coherent.

    To take an example which Scotland do you think would pay more for its borrowing: a Scotland that was unable to print its own currency and used Sterling or a country that introduced a new, untried currency with the capacity to devalue and print as required? The cost of having our own currency would be horrendous at the moment which is why the SNP has given up on the idea.

    And why would rUK want to take on the existing debt in exchange for the uncertain income flow from the north sea, especially when they would have limited control of it after independence? What is in it for them exactly?



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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited September 2013
    Free school meals for ALL 5,6 & 7 yo's from next Sept - Clegg to announce.

    BRIBE !!
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,685
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    There is no money left (unless you are less than 7 or over 65...)

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    BRIBE 2 to follow (BBC)

    "At a briefing ahead of the announcement the Lib Dems suggested they had got the funding for school lunches in return for allowing Conservative plans for a marriage tax break."
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,685
    Is MyBurningEars around?

    The Electoral Commission has a download with the 2010 election results which you'd expect to be correct:

    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/our-work/our-research/electoral-data
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    TGOHF said:

    Free school meals for ALL 5,6 & 7 yo's from next Sept - Clegg to announce.

    BRIBE !!

    Clegg ain't endorsing lowering the voting age down to infant school, is he?

    Still, I think its a good policy, given the big story today.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308

    Theresa May on Sky News talking about the Daniel Pelka case, uttering that worthless platitude "Lessons have been learned". Clearly, they haven't learned. Not until someone loses their job, or goes to prison for criminal negligence.

    To stop letting politicians off the hook, interviewers' first question to them should be 'what lessons have been learned?'.
    There was quite an interesting critique of the Serious Case review on Today this morning. Basically, the criticism was that the report was written with the benefit of hindsight and with the benefit (if that is the word) of knowing what actually happened. It would have been more useful, it was said, to review the evidence that was before the various officials at the time and ask what alarm bells should have been ringing at that point.

    Of course such a review would be a lot more pointed and involve a lot of second guessing but it might also have provided better guidance about when, how and where those in authority need to intervene.

    Instead we got the usual that no one in particular was to blame (other than the criminals of course), that opportunities to co-ordinate what was known were missed etc etc. The stuff we have heard time and time again.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Sco, NI and Wales to get funds to give free school meals too if they so desire.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @TGOHF

    At least this policy announcement explains why my local Lib Dems have recently u-turned from fierce opposition to the local council's free school meals to supporting it...
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    edited September 2013
    TGOHF said:

    BRIBE 2 to follow (BBC)

    "At a briefing ahead of the announcement the Lib Dems suggested they had got the funding for school lunches in return for allowing Conservative plans for a marriage tax break."


    Since free school meals for all came out of a Tory inspired review then Gove has done well to trade it for a married couple tax break"


    FRIDAY 12 JULY 2013

    "All primary school children could get free school meals under proposals being considered by the Education Secretary, Michael Gove.

    A review of school food recommends that giving out free lunches to all primary pupils could help improve their health and educational achievement. The scheme could be trialled in the most deprived parts of England.

    The review, published this morning, also recommends that headteachers consider banning packed lunches altogether, claiming that just 1 per cent of them meet the nutritional standards of a cooked school meal. The School Food Plan was commissioned by the Education Secretary last year to examine pupils’ unhealthy eating. It was conducted by the co-founders of the Leon restaurant chain, Henry Dimbleby and John Vincent, who say “every word” was endorsed and “signed off” by Mr Gove himself."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/free-school-meals-for-every-primary-school-pupil-education-secretary-michael-gove-joins-the-war-on-packed-lunches-8704861.html
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    TGOHF said:

    Free school meals for ALL 5,6 & 7 yo's from next Sept - Clegg to announce.

    BRIBE !!

    Clegg ain't endorsing lowering the voting age down to infant school, is he?

    Still, I think its a good policy, given the big story today.
    In the year that Margaret Thatcher died bringing back school milk as well was clearly just too much for Conservatives to swallow !!

    Next year perhaps ....

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Nick Clegg - ""I am the leader" and Lib Dems will go on in Govt until May 2015"
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited September 2013
    @David Evershed

    "Dan Hodges makes a good argument for the opposite view but he assumes that this is the free choice of the women. I just don't believe they have a choice which they can freely express. That needs to change."

    Ultra orthodox Jewish women shave their heads and wear wigs for the same reason that Muslim women wear burqas. That is to avoid being attractive to men.

    They are obliged to do this when they get married and continue the practice for the rest of their lives even if they become widowed.

    I very much doubt any of these women would accept that they were doing it because their husbands insisted. It is just part of the traditions and obligations they choose to live their lives by (which incidentally are dwarfed by the obligations placed on their husbands.)

    I know many and I know for certain they would find your attitude patronizing. I don't personally know any Muslim women who wear the burqa but I have no reason to suppose they wouldn't feel the same.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Since free school meals for all came out of a Tory inspired review then Gove has done well to trade it for a married couple tax break"

    Interesting. I guess you will also get the tax break if you are in a gay marriage?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,685
    Roger said:

    @David Evershed

    "Dan Hodges makes a good argument for the opposite view but he assumes that this is the free choice of the women. I just don't believe they have a choice which they can freely express. That needs to change."

    Ultra orthodox Jewish women shave their heads and wear wigs for the same reason that Muslim women wear burqas. That is to avoid being attractive to men.

    They are obliged to do this when they get married and continue the practice for the rest of their lives even if they become widowed.

    I very much doubt any of these women would accept that they were doing it because their husbands insisted. It is just part of the traditions and obligations they choose to live their lives by (which incidentally are dwarfed by the obligations placed on their husbands.)

    I know many and I know for certain they would find your attitude patronizing. I don't personally know any Muslim women who wear the burqa but I have no reason to suppose they wouldn't feel the same.

    You could argue that their attitude is actually insulting to men in that it assumes that men wouldn't be able to control themselves if they didn't cover/shave their hair, etc.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Replying to the news that the Coalition was to fund free school meals for 5-7 year old Ed Miliband said :

    "With soring obesity rates among the young this government is now wasting precious funds on the indolent children of benefit cheats and those scrounging offspring of millionaires who instead of sending their kids to Eton take up places rightly meant for the lovely boys and girls of hard working Guardian readers."
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Bit naughty of Clegg to announce a policy during conference season - puts pressure on Ed for next week to pull a baby panda out of his rear.

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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    TGOHF said:

    Great news for Eck

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10315370/NIESR-Independent-Scotland-would-face-decade-of-economic-pain.html

    "The National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) found that a separate Scotland would start life with a “substantial amount” of debt that would need to be reduced over its first 10 years.
    According to its calculations, the money markets would charge a separate Scotland, as a new state, billions of pounds more interest than the UK on its borrowing.

    The economists said that ministers would have to squeeze Scotland's budget by 5.4 per cent to get their finances in order, requiring cuts in public spending or increases in taxation.
    However, they warned this may not be enough if there was an economic shock and Scotland may require control over its own monetary policy, such as interest rates, to stabilise its finances.

    This would mean a separate Scotland having to adopt its own currency as keeping sterling would mean monetary policy being dictated by the Bank of England."

    Based on the NIESR estimates, the Treasury said a separate Scotland would have paid £3 billion more in interest on its borrowing between 2013/14 and 2017/18 than if it had remained part of the UK.

    Scotland would have to pay different interest rates to the rUK regardless of the currency they use. The Eurozone have different bond yields, as we very well know by now.

    I am not entirely sure why in the long run the Scottish interest rates would necessarily be higher. I am not convinced on that. It would depend both on the monetary policies [ initially same as the rUK or later the ECB, say ] as well as their overall economic performance. If they achieve good growth rates, their bond yields will begin to come down.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    surbiton said:

    TGOHF said:

    Great news for Eck

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10315370/NIESR-Independent-Scotland-would-face-decade-of-economic-pain.html

    "The National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) found that a separate Scotland would start life with a “substantial amount” of debt that would need to be reduced over its first 10 years.
    According to its calculations, the money markets would charge a separate Scotland, as a new state, billions of pounds more interest than the UK on its borrowing.

    The economists said that ministers would have to squeeze Scotland's budget by 5.4 per cent to get their finances in order, requiring cuts in public spending or increases in taxation.
    However, they warned this may not be enough if there was an economic shock and Scotland may require control over its own monetary policy, such as interest rates, to stabilise its finances.

    This would mean a separate Scotland having to adopt its own currency as keeping sterling would mean monetary policy being dictated by the Bank of England."

    Based on the NIESR estimates, the Treasury said a separate Scotland would have paid £3 billion more in interest on its borrowing between 2013/14 and 2017/18 than if it had remained part of the UK.

    Scotland would have to pay different interest rates to the rUK regardless of the currency they use. The Eurozone have different bond yields, as we very well know by now.

    I am not entirely sure why in the long run the Scottish interest rates would necessarily be higher. I am not convinced on that. It would depend both on the monetary policies [ initially same as the rUK or later the ECB, say ] as well as their overall economic performance. If they achieve good growth rates, their bond yields will begin to come down.
    I posted the whole report later - main thrust was that report seemed to suggest that Scotland would be in a better position during a down turn by having own currency.

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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Andrea

    Hard to see past Len for this one.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited September 2013
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    Bit naughty of Clegg to announce a policy during conference season - puts pressure on Ed for next week to pull a baby panda out of his rear.

    The magic money tree is producing - spending more than Labour and giveaways for conference too.
    Marriage breaks for the Mail too.

    "There is no money left"
    All those Lloyds share profits.

    Perhaps Ed could cancel the free meals to pay for his bedroom tax cut ?

    You must be gutted.

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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756

    The Belfast Telegraph has conducted a poll of NI voting intentions. Biggest winner is NOTA with 44% of voters saying they couldn't be bothered. Only 3.8% want a united Ireland.
    Slugger has the vote breakdown by community.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/poll-alliance-on-the-rise-as-unionists-lose-ground-in-voting-intentions-survey-29584151.html

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2013/09/17/voting-intentions-survey-44-wouldnt-vote/
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    Free school meals pay down the debt
    Marriage tax breaks pay down the debt

    Going forward everything pays down the debt

    Perhaps Ed will stand on an austerity platform in 2015 ?
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    Bit naughty of Clegg to announce a policy during conference season - puts pressure on Ed for next week to pull a baby panda out of his rear.

    The magic money tree is producing - spending more than Labour and giveaways for conference too.
    Marriage breaks for the Mail too.

    "There is no money left"
    All those Lloyds share profits.

    Perhaps Ed could cancel the free meals to pay for his bedroom tax cut ?

    You must be gutted.

    Lol tim's smiling through gritted teeth - and the idea came from Gove!
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    felix said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    Bit naughty of Clegg to announce a policy during conference season - puts pressure on Ed for next week to pull a baby panda out of his rear.

    The magic money tree is producing - spending more than Labour and giveaways for conference too.
    Marriage breaks for the Mail too.

    "There is no money left"
    All those Lloyds share profits.

    Perhaps Ed could cancel the free meals to pay for his bedroom tax cut ?

    You must be gutted.

    Lol tim's smiling through gritted teeth - and the idea came from Gove!
    GO, Gove and Clegg finally bring out a big fat Labour Brownite bribe and he's whining ?

    No pleasing some people...
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited September 2013
    @Neil

    Being the local AM he had the membership list before the others.....
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    tim said:

    Free school meals pay down the debt
    Marriage tax breaks pay down the debt

    Going forward everything pays down the debt

    All that extra revenue from cutting the top rate of tax being used to help children. Conservative principles in action.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    TGOHF said:

    felix said:

    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    Bit naughty of Clegg to announce a policy during conference season - puts pressure on Ed for next week to pull a baby panda out of his rear.

    The magic money tree is producing - spending more than Labour and giveaways for conference too.
    Marriage breaks for the Mail too.

    "There is no money left"
    All those Lloyds share profits.

    Perhaps Ed could cancel the free meals to pay for his bedroom tax cut ?

    You must be gutted.

    Lol tim's smiling through gritted teeth - and the idea came from Gove!
    GO, Gove and Clegg finally bring out a big fat Labour Brownite bribe and he's whining ?

    No pleasing some people...
    I predict a lot more wailing and gnashing of teeth from timville before May 2015. Sit back and enjoy the fun. I know I will.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891


    @TGOHF

    "puts pressure on Ed for next week to pull a baby panda out of his rear."

    http://www.teknemedia.net/esposizioni/2011/TKimg4df08a8c33e4a.jpg
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Quick send the Rainbow Warrior down to Adelaide

    http://www.pointcarbon.com/news/1.2574941

    "The new Australian Cabinet will be the first in six years to not have a ministerial role for climate change issues, merging instead global warming with the wider environment portfolio.
    Announcing his Cabinet on Monday, incoming Prime Minister Tony Abbott appointed Greg Hunt, the Liberal-National Coalition’s spokesman on climate change issues since 2009, as the new Minister for the Environment.(Hunt) will have responsibility for the abolition of the carbon tax.."
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Of course these free school meals aren't included in the all new and splendid "wages vs inflation" calculations.

    Nor tax cuts - including a marriage tax cut.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Oh dear - lol.

    @paulwaugh: Lib Dem free school meals policy will be funded by spending cuts elsewhere, I'm told.!
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    edited September 2013
    O/T Global Climate

    The world remains anamoulously warm - August 2013 was the 4th warmest August ever recorded according to NOAA.

    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2013/8

    Examples of poor interpretation of science:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/10294082/Global-warming-No-actually-were-cooling-claim-scientists.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/Global-cooling-Arctic-ice-caps-grows-60-global-warming-predictions.html

    Just mirrors some of the right-wing fruitcakes on here I guess...
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    TGOHF said:

    Oh dear - lol.

    @paulwaugh: Lib Dem free school meals policy will be funded by spending cuts elsewhere, I'm told.!


    Time to finally end the free school milk scheme?
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,214
    DavidL said:

    I have to confess that I was concerned with the amount of leeway that the Judge apparently gave to the defendant in the recent case. I do not think it is enough for the defendant to show her face when she is giving evidence. Her reaction to the evidence against her is something that juries can and do properly take into account. That should not be hidden from them.

    It also seems to me that it makes it too easy for her not to give evidence and claim an unfair trial as a result. If she had to be uncovered throughout the court proceedings no such argument could be made.

    The charge she faces is a serious one. If convicted she may well be sent to jail. I am not aware of the Prison service allowing those sentenced to wear such clothing. I would have thought the security risk would be unacceptable.

    More generally I am concerned that in indulging this societal norm (and it is not a religous requirement as shown by the countries in the world where muslims do not wear such outfits) we are accepting something that allows women to be treated as different and second class citizens, something to be hidden away and not to take an equal part in our society. The patriarchal mindset and attitudes behind the burqa are contrary to our societal principles and beliefs. I would stop it.

    Dan Hodges makes a good argument for the opposite view but he assumes that this is the free choice of the women. I just don't believe they have a choice which they can freely express. That needs to change.

    The French are not often right but there is an exception to every rule and this might just be it.

    Good post. I too think the Judge was wrong not to say that the jury needed to see her reactions to others evidence.

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    No threads on PB.com as yet on this weekend's important German Elections!

    Today's Times has an interesting piece by Andrew Gimson suggesting that the recently-formed, eurosceptic AfD (Alternative for Germany) party appears capable of winning more than the 5% of votes necessary to entitle it to seats in the Bundestag and could win as much as 7%-9% of the vote - apparently the pollsters are having some difficulty in determining their true level of support.
    Should they indeed enter the Bundestag, who knows just how well they might do in next year's Euro elections.
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    The Belfast Telegraph has conducted a poll of NI voting intentions. Biggest winner is NOTA with 44% of voters saying they couldn't be bothered. Only 3.8% want a united Ireland.
    Slugger has the vote breakdown by community.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/poll-alliance-on-the-rise-as-unionists-lose-ground-in-voting-intentions-survey-29584151.html

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2013/09/17/voting-intentions-survey-44-wouldnt-vote/

    Has there ever been a poll of NI residents where they were asked what party they would vote for if they lived on the GB mainland?
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Should they indeed enter the Bundestag, who knows just how well they might do in next year's Euro elections.''

    There are a couple of other polls on Conhome that suggest the political tide is flowing with David Cameron as he heads for re-negotiations in 2014.

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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,685

    No threads on PB.com as yet on this weekend's important German Elections!

    Today's Times has an interesting piece by Andrew Gimson suggesting that the recently-formed, eurosceptic AfD (Alternative for Germany) party appears capable of winning more than the 5% of votes necessary to entitle it to seats in the Bundestag and could win as much as 7%-9% of the vote - apparently the pollsters are having some difficulty in determining their true level of support.
    Should they indeed enter the Bundestag, who knows just how well they might do in next year's Euro elections.

    Latest polls:

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,685
    Jonathan Freedland:

    "Washington DC shootings: America's gun disease diminishes its soft power

    The spate of shootings in the US and the lack of political will to tackle gun control shows the country as a basket case, not a model state"


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/17/washington-dc-shootings-america-gun-disease
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    Andy_JS said:

    Jonathan Freedland:

    "Washington DC shootings: America's gun disease diminishes its soft power

    The spate of shootings in the US and the lack of political will to tackle gun control shows the country as a basket case, not a model state"


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/17/washington-dc-shootings-america-gun-disease

    Their eagerness to use violence in their dispute with Assad is reflected in the violence on their own streets.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    @Sunil

    "Their eagerness to use violence in their dispute with Assad is reflected in the violence on their own streets."

    Indeed. This even moreso


    http://www.ateneonline-aol.it/img/beauty.jpg
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,685
    edited September 2013

    Andy_JS said:

    Jonathan Freedland:

    "Washington DC shootings: America's gun disease diminishes its soft power

    The spate of shootings in the US and the lack of political will to tackle gun control shows the country as a basket case, not a model state"


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/17/washington-dc-shootings-america-gun-disease

    Their eagerness to use violence in their dispute with Assad is reflected in the violence on their own streets.
    Ordinary people in America need guns to protect themselves from the government — which has nuclear weapons and daisy cutters. Makes sense...
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756


    The Belfast Telegraph has conducted a poll of NI voting intentions. Biggest winner is NOTA with 44% of voters saying they couldn't be bothered. Only 3.8% want a united Ireland.
    Slugger has the vote breakdown by community.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/poll-alliance-on-the-rise-as-unionists-lose-ground-in-voting-intentions-survey-29584151.html

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2013/09/17/voting-intentions-survey-44-wouldnt-vote/

    Has there ever been a poll of NI residents where they were asked what party they would vote for if they lived on the GB mainland?
    I've not come across one Sunil. My guess is NI is more like Northern constituencies. Belfast, Derry Bann and Lagan Valley would most likely return a mix of Lab\LDs North Down and S. Antrim probably Con., the rural constituencies would probably be Con\LD marginals.
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    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Free school meals is a good idea and should go some way to reimbursing me for the idiotic CB tax hike when my boy starts school next year. As I am also married, who knows, I could end up better off. Why Ozzy forced me into the SA system only to pay me back with my own money is a question only he can answer.
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    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Andy_JS said:

    Jonathan Freedland:

    "Washington DC shootings: America's gun disease diminishes its soft power

    The spate of shootings in the US and the lack of political will to tackle gun control shows the country as a basket case, not a model state"


    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/17/washington-dc-shootings-america-gun-disease

    Yup. Ban them. Obama should just do it.

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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,756
    Bobajob said:

    Free school meals is a good idea and should go some way to reimbursing me for the idiotic CB tax hike when my boy starts school next year. As I am also married, who knows, I could end up better off. Why Ozzy forced me into the SA system only to pay me back with my own money is a question only he can answer.

    That's the story of tax and spending BaJ. They take your money off you, take a cut and then give it back expecting you to be grateful.
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