Twitter norman smith @BBCNormanS 5m Labour's Pat McFadden says he warned CWU when they opposed Labour's partial sell off of Royal Mail they risked privatisation by Tory Govt.
Lucky they weren't stupid enough to fall for that one. After all, under Labour's plans employees were going to get nothing, under the coalition's plans they'll get 10% of the company, furthering the long-established union aim of securing for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry. Or something like that.
@Plato - Ed was in the cabinet which proposed it, wasn't he?
He was so I assume he supported it = just wondering where the relevant vote was for the rest of his team/him for clarification before pouring scorn on him!
I dont think £2,000 quite represents the full fruits of their industry.
Of course not, they'll get the dividends and growth on top of that, assuming they don't grab the money and run. Anyway it's £2,000 more fruits than Mandy was dishing out to them.
You disapprove of workers having a stake in their employers? Odd, I always thought that was a key demand of the left. Maybe you're part of some obscure splinter group which opposes employee participation?
I dont think £2,000 quite represents the full fruits of their industry.
Of course not, they'll get the dividends and growth on top of that, assuming they don't grab the money and run. Anyway it's £2,000 more fruits than Mandy was dishing out to them.
You think the Government is selling it off on the cheap?! Or you dont believe the market is capable of valuing the company properly? Because £2,000 is the likely market value of what they are being offered.
Twitter norman smith @BBCNormanS 5m Labour's Pat McFadden says he warned CWU when they opposed Labour's partial sell off of Royal Mail they risked privatisation by Tory Govt.
Lucky they weren't stupid enough to fall for that one. After all, under Labour's plans employees were going to get nothing, under the coalition's plans they'll get 10% of the company, furthering the long-established union aim of securing for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry. Or something like that.
Also known as a bung from the Tory government..
I believe the BBC refers to this sort of thing as a ‘sweetner’ …!
Actually tim I had typed you another longer reply prior to that which has disappeared into the ether.
But in summary while you like to type outrage, I've already told you my comments relate to how they handled the PR. But rant away if it keeps you happy since it's a slow afternoon. Since I'm currently going through a lottery project myself I'll be happy to listen to all your vast experience on the workings of the organisation and getting grants. Or will your bus pull over ?
wrt OUTRAGE, the only thing today worth getting outraged about is how that useless pudding Jacqui Smith got a plum job in healthcare with no relevant qualifications unless it was experience of treating wrist RSI injuries.
You think the Government is selling it off on the cheap?! Or you dont believe the market is capable of valuing the company properly? Because £2,000 is the likely market value of what they are being offered.
Yes, and with the fruits of their labour it might grow. That's the idea, right? Anyway I'd hazard a guess that for the average postie £2,000 worth of shares is a significant amount.
Those employees who participated (against the advice of the union!) in the privatisation of National Freight Corporation did fantastically well - a share was worth £1.65 at the time fo the float in 1982 and six years later was worth £74. Good for them, though of course the past is no guarantee blah blah blah.
You think the Government is selling it off on the cheap?! Or you dont believe the market is capable of valuing the company properly? Because £2,000 is the likely market value of what they are being offered.
Yes, and with the fruits of their labour it might grow. That's the idea, right? Anyway I'd hazard a guess that for the average postie £2,000 worth of shares is a significant amount.
£2,000 might be a significant amount but I think you'll find the reason that staff are opposed to privatisation is that they dont believe it's enough to sell their terms and conditions for.
£2,000 might be a significant amount but I think you'll find the reason that staff are opposed to privatisation is that they dont believe it's enough to sell their terms and conditions for.
The reason staff are opposed to privatisation, to the extent they are, is no doubt because their union has been telling them how terrible it will be, in a re-run of the scare stories of the eighties.
We've been here before, and the simple fact is that privatisation has been one of those very few government policies which has been an unmitigated success, for employees as much as for customers - so much so, indeed, that it's been copied all over the western world and even incorporated into the way the EU directives work.
£2,000 might be a significant amount but I think you'll find the reason that staff are opposed to privatisation is that they dont believe it's enough to sell their terms and conditions for.
The reason staff are opposed to privatisation, to the extent they are, is no doubt because their union has been telling them how terrible it will be, in a re-run of the scare stories of the eighties.
I think the view that workers are mindless zombies led by the noses by some evil overcaste to oppose risking their terms and conditions for a £2,000 bung speaks volumes.
Mr. Finch, afraid I'll have to leave that for the better informed chaps to answer.
Miss Plato, that seems odd by the Lottery and a clever/good move by B&Q.
What I found so odd is that poppies are dirt cheap - grow in poor soil like ox-eye daisies and are perennials so once planted they grow like weeds.
It's a cheap as chips and enduring initiative that's entirely maintenance free - the Lottery Fund deserves shooting over this totally apolitical idea. It's about honouring the dead.
Poppy seeds - 2000 for £2.69 from a reputable grower ( thompson and morgan ) so say you buy 2 million to guarantee a million that £2690. I'll bet the salaries they spent evaluating the thing to say "No" cost more. And it'll cost more in press management and PR to explain why they wouldn't spend £3k.
The bid was for £92k so I'm sure there was more than the cost of the seed involved.
Yes I know, but the lottery is also quite good at giving you a counter proposal say half and telling you maybe to cut out certain aspects or seek alternative funding. To offer nothing was leaving themselves open to a PR headache they didn't need, especially as they gave £100,000 to commemorate pacifists in WW1.
Christ, they're only poppies - I had the child plant some in the front garden a couple of summers ago and very pretty they were too.
Why does this have to be something that the lottery gives money to? It won't cost any more than the paper poppies most people buy each November for the seeds.
The biggest problem will be making sure the local council doesn't cut them down with their lawnmowers before they've flowered.
I think the view that workers are mindless zombies led by the noses by some evil overcaste to oppose risking their terms and conditions for a £2,000 bung speaks volumes.
I think the view that workers are mindless zombies who need to be protected from the evils of working, like most people, in the private sector, from having a stake in their own employer, and from sharing in its success, speaks volumes.
I think the view that workers are mindless zombies led by the noses by some evil overcaste to oppose risking their terms and conditions for a £2,000 bung speaks volumes.
I think the view that workers are mindless zombies who need to be protected from the evils of working, like most people, in the private sector, from having a stake in their own employer, and from sharing in its success, speaks volumes.
You mustnt talk to many employees of the Royal Mail.
Mr. Finch, afraid I'll have to leave that for the better informed chaps to answer.
Miss Plato, that seems odd by the Lottery and a clever/good move by B&Q.
What I found so odd is that poppies are dirt cheap - grow in poor soil like ox-eye daisies and are perennials so once planted they grow like weeds.
It's a cheap as chips and enduring initiative that's entirely maintenance free - the Lottery Fund deserves shooting over this totally apolitical idea. It's about honouring the dead.
Poppy seeds - 2000 for £2.69 from a reputable grower ( thompson and morgan ) so say you buy 2 million to guarantee a million that £2690. I'll bet the salaries they spent evaluating the thing to say "No" cost more. And it'll cost more in press management and PR to explain why they wouldn't spend £3k.
@tim - I don't know why you're so obsessed with that. Lots of industries have a universal service obligation, from telephones to electricity, in most countries in the world (though, oddly, water companies don't in the UK). It has nothing much to do with privatisation; the 'subsidy', as you call it, exists with or without privatisation, is partially mandated by the EU, and remains unchanged.
"Germany is indeed on the hook for €574bn of credits from the Bundesbank to the central banks of Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Cyprus, and Slovenia.
... any EMU state leaving the euro would face likely default on external obligations. "The national central bank would not be able to repay liabilities accumulated in relation to other members of the euro system, which are registered in the internal payments system of the Union (known as Target2)."
Yes, the Silvio threat was well known at the time (I believe it was covered by Bloomberg and the WSJ, all 'sources close to', but pretty specific.) The reason it was not taken that seriously by the Europeans was that the Italian banks had borrowed - through the Target-II system - around €120bn from the ECB.
If Italy had left the Euro, the banks would still have owed €120bn. There was no legal way for the Italian government to allow its banks to be forgiven the money they owed the ECB. So, the Chief Executives of the big Italian banks made it known to the politicians that they would have gone bust (taking the savings of millions of Italians down with them) in the event of Euro-exit.
This has always been the problem with the simple option of Euro exit - there is no way for the government of the day to revalue the Euro denominated debts of the companies in their country.
edit: to add, it is not just Germany on the hook for Target-II; most Northern European governments are in 'credit' and most of the periphery is in 'debit'.
Comments
Those employees who participated (against the advice of the union!) in the privatisation of National Freight Corporation did fantastically well - a share was worth £1.65 at the time fo the float in 1982 and six years later was worth £74. Good for them, though of course the past is no guarantee blah blah blah.
We've been here before, and the simple fact is that privatisation has been one of those very few government policies which has been an unmitigated success, for employees as much as for customers - so much so, indeed, that it's been copied all over the western world and even incorporated into the way the EU directives work.
Why does this have to be something that the lottery gives money to? It won't cost any more than the paper poppies most people buy each November for the seeds.
The biggest problem will be making sure the local council doesn't cut them down with their lawnmowers before they've flowered.
No need for the blooming lottery to pay for them.
I'll buy some as soon as I can get the local council to agree not to mow them all to oblivion from the verges and such-like where I might sow them.
If Italy had left the Euro, the banks would still have owed €120bn. There was no legal way for the Italian government to allow its banks to be forgiven the money they owed the ECB. So, the Chief Executives of the big Italian banks made it known to the politicians that they would have gone bust (taking the savings of millions of Italians down with them) in the event of Euro-exit.
This has always been the problem with the simple option of Euro exit - there is no way for the government of the day to revalue the Euro denominated debts of the companies in their country.
edit: to add, it is not just Germany on the hook for Target-II; most Northern European governments are in 'credit' and most of the periphery is in 'debit'.