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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    DavidL said:


    If more unions follow the GMB it may not even be necessary.

    @BBCNormanS: Iam Lavery chair of Labour Trade Union Group - Its likely other unions will follow example of @gmb_union

    @BBCNormanS: Ian Lavery - Ed Miliband shd have been aware of the consequences of his union reforms and likely loss of funds
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    If Westminster is often a bubble, on frenzied days like last Thursday it becomes even more so. Everyone is waiting for the latest news. What can easily happen, and what seems to have, is for Parliament to forget about the world outside entirely until it is over.

    As the Telegraph reports, some Labour MPs, as they left the parliamentary lobby giddy with unexpected victory, were rudely jolted back to reality by pictures of Syrian victims of incendiary bombs, as a reminder of what had just collectively been achieved by voting down intervention, without necessarily meaning to. The hangover had begun.

    It is particularly easy to miss the impact of such things in the wider party, the decent people who organise raffles and knock on doors. Over the weekend, I was in touch with two centre-left colleagues (and no, neither was Dan Hodges), one of whom was seriously considering leaving a party of which he had not only been a member for a generation, but had worked for during more than a decade.

    The other would have resigned, but it was Saturday and she couldn’t get through to the membership department. Another typical story from one young member leaving is blogged here.
    http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2013/09/04/syria-the-hangover/
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Surely this loss of funding is part of how even a successful plan was going to work? Reduce perceived influence and turn to private donors who are now more motivated to donate. 3% of the budget would seem like a good amount to get the ball rolling - to ask private donors to make up £1m is not asking for peanuts but the GMB slashing funding looks good on the influence.
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,548
    Just looking at the details of Jesse Norman's constituency. Turns out the Lib Dems nearly won the seat in 2010, 2,000 behind on a straight 2 way fight. Interesting counterfactual: had the Lib Dems won, do you think Lords Reform and thus the boundary changes would have gone through had Jesse Norman not been in parliament? Maybe a much better outcome for Dave in the long run?

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    Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited September 2013

    Well, I think Hopi is right on his points about the Labour rule-change, but, yes, I think the whole idea of the Bill (so beloved of the left) is dross. The reason is not just bad drafting, it's that the concept is doomed from the start. I don't think it's possible to distinguish 'good' lobbying from 'bad' lobbying, and I don't even think that in principle one should try to: it's freedom of speech, innit? If Lord Sainsbury were to want to take out a full page ad in the Nottingham Post saying 'Vote for Nick Palmer, he's a great guy', then that would fine by me.

    On that basis, a responsible government would be proposing the repeal of parts IV, IVA, V, VI, VIII and chapter II of part VII of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, among other enactments which restrict donations and expenditure.

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    Well, I think Hopi is right on his points about the Labour rule-change, but, yes, I think the whole idea of the Bill (so beloved of the left) is dross. The reason is not just bad drafting, it's that the concept is doomed from the start. I don't think it's possible to distinguish 'good' lobbying from 'bad' lobbying, and I don't even think that in principle one should try to: it's freedom of speech, innit? If Lord Sainsbury were to want to take out a full page ad in the Nottingham Post saying 'Vote for Nick Palmer, he's a great guy', then that would fine by me.

    On that basis, a responsible government would be proposing the repeal of parts IV, IVA, V, VI, VIII and chapter II of part VII of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, among other enactments which restrict donations.

    I think that's the point ultimately behind the bill. It's a load of crap, but it's there to spike the wheels of those which want to control 'lobbying' by one group of people (the 'bad' people), but protect it from others (the 'good' people).

    It'll bubble along in the background, but it'll never make it to the statute book.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,349

    Well, I think Hopi is right on his points about the Labour rule-change, but, yes, I think the whole idea of the Bill (so beloved of the left) is dross. The reason is not just bad drafting, it's that the concept is doomed from the start. I don't think it's possible to distinguish 'good' lobbying from 'bad' lobbying, and I don't even think that in principle one should try to: it's freedom of speech, innit? If Lord Sainsbury were to want to take out a full page ad in the Nottingham Post saying 'Vote for Nick Palmer, he's a great guy', then that would fine by me.

    On that basis, a responsible government would be proposing the repeal of parts IV, IVA, V, VI, VIII and chapter II of part VII of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, among other enactments which restrict donations and expenditure.

    As an alternative to the lobbying bill that has much to commend it.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,953
    edited September 2013
    Seems the job of president is really aging Obama -

    On the campaign trail in NH in 2008 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe751kMBwms He looks no more than early 40s (Was 47)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23962304 I think he looks late 50s now, perhaps 60.

    He is 52.
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited September 2013

    On that basis, a responsible government would be proposing the repeal of parts IV, IVA, V, VI, VIII and chapter II of part VII of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, among other enactments which restrict donations and expenditure.

    Yes, or, failing that, at least ensuring that direct expenditure by Labour's paymasters is covered by the same rules, which is part of what the new Bill tries to do. If we are going to have rules on spending, we should obviously remove that gigantic loophole, but my personal preference would be to scrap the lot.
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    Pulpstar said:

    Seems the job of president is really aging Obama -

    On the campaign trail in NH in 2008 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe751kMBwms He looks no more than early 40s (Was 47)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23962304 I think he looks late 50s now, perhaps 60.

    He is 52.

    Blooning hell yes... look at him in 2008

    http://transition2008.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/changing-washington-obamas-first-100-days/

    Not good for his health at all.
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    Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited September 2013
    DavidL said:

    As an alternative to the lobbying bill that has much to commend it.

    I tend to agree, but the government is proposing more restrictions on freedom of expression as an answer to unjustifiable restrictions on freedom of expression. That is madness.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    So now that the GMB have cut £1m off labour's budget will the Co-op bank review it's lending facilities ? Any SME in this position would find it's facility chopped PDQ.

    Think of the old ladies suffering so Labour can get bailed out

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/10285153/Former-Co-op-director-Roger-Gorvin-attacks-unethical-bank-over-rescue.html

    "Roger Gorvin, who was an executive member of the bank's main board before his retirement in 1993, said the Co-op Group seemed to want to "minimise its involvement" in the bank's rescue in order to "retain capital to solve its own trading problems" and inflict the pain on the bank's bondholders instead.

    He said the bank had attempted to paint some holders of its bonds, who are expected to lose half of their investments under the bank's restructuring plan, as "pseudo institutional" and "well able to take the strain of a substantial haircut". But Mr Gorvin said: "This is simply not true and the [Co-op] Group needs to reassess its thinking on this matter."

    He cited the example of a friend who, at the age of almost 80, would have to move house if his income were cut under the restructuring plans"
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I wonder if Labour were included in these latest figures ??

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/10281808/Co-op-Bank-loan-value-deficit-grows-to-3.6bn.html

    "The struggling lender downgraded the “fair value” of its loan book by £4.2bn between the end of last year and June, wiping nearly 13pc off the value of its £29bn portfolio.

    Cutting the value of its loans means the difference between the assumed market price of the loans and the “carrying value” of what the bank reckons them to be worth has reversed from a £37m credit to a £3.6bn deficit in just six months.

    In the notes to its latest accounts, the Co-op said the change came after the bank “reviewed and improved the methods used to calculate the fair values”."
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    Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited September 2013

    Yes, or, failing that, at least ensuring that direct expenditure by Labour's paymasters is covered by the same rules, which is part of what the new Bill tries to do. If we are going to have rules on spending, we should obviously remove that gigantic loophole, but my personal preference would be to scrap the lot.

    That might just about justify Part 2, but Part 1 of the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill is absurd on any rational basis, and it is extraordinary that is being proposed by a "Conservative" government.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    TGOHF said:

    So now that the GMB have cut £1m off labour's budget will the Co-op bank review it's lending facilities ? Any SME in this position would find it's facility chopped PDQ.

    Think of the old ladies suffering so Labour can get bailed out

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/10285153/Former-Co-op-director-Roger-Gorvin-attacks-unethical-bank-over-rescue.html

    "Roger Gorvin, who was an executive member of the bank's main board before his retirement in 1993, said the Co-op Group seemed to want to "minimise its involvement" in the bank's rescue in order to "retain capital to solve its own trading problems" and inflict the pain on the bank's bondholders instead.

    He said the bank had attempted to paint some holders of its bonds, who are expected to lose half of their investments under the bank's restructuring plan, as "pseudo institutional" and "well able to take the strain of a substantial haircut". But Mr Gorvin said: "This is simply not true and the [Co-op] Group needs to reassess its thinking on this matter."

    He cited the example of a friend who, at the age of almost 80, would have to move house if his income were cut under the restructuring plans"
    I think the fun will be how can the directors extend a loan to Labour when in truth they should be reducing their exposure especially after the GMB news.
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    Good to see you back, Marf! Nice cartoon as always!
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