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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This Morning’s YouGov

SystemSystem Posts: 12,219
edited September 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This Morning’s YouGov

Sun/YouGov Poll
Con 33% (+2)
Lab 40% (-1)
LD 9% (nc)
UKIP 12%(-1)

Changes since last pre Syria poll Con nc, Lab +3, LD -1, UKIP nc

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • All margin of error stuff, however.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.
  • Spending cuts back to being a draw on good/bad for the economy:
    Good: 41 (+2)
    Bad: 41 (-4)

    And Labour still stuck with the blame:
    And who do you think is most to blame for the current spending cuts?
    Coalition: 25 (-3)
    Labour: 36 (+2)

    I expect Ed!s awesome speech at Conference will turn that around......
  • F1: bit more on Ricciardo joining Red Bull:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23938308

    " Team principal Christian Horner said Ricciardo was "very talented, committed, has great attitude and in the end it was a very logical choice".

    Red Bull chose Ricciardo over former world champion Kimi Raikkonen. "

    Really? I don't have proof, but that doesn't make sense and I think it unlikely to be true. Ricciardo really wanted to join Red Bull. They could've had him at any moment. The only reason for there to be speculation and prolonged debate and doubt was because they were after Raikkonen. But, the Finn is the antithesis of an eager young driver, and probably ended up saying No to them, rather than vice versa (or there may have been a mutually insurmountable issue, such as guaranteed equal treatment with Vettel).

    This still leaves Massa's seat under doubt, with Raikkonen, Hulkenberg and Di Resta all potential replacements (personally, I'd go for Hulkenberg).
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    No, it was probably avoided as it does contain some interesting trends.
  • Brogan:

    "First, Parliament was not reborn as a gathering of noble-minded statesmen, but remains a fickle collection of politicians of differing quality and motivation. Next, Britain has not been reduced overnight from goliath to midget – rather, it continues on its unchanged course of relative military decline. Ed Miliband is neither particularly treacherous nor surprisingly cunning, just fundamentally unsuited to be prime minister. And finally, David Cameron is a leader without a majority following, held hostage by a gang of Tory irreconcilables angry that he didn’t win last time and fearful that he won’t win in 2015. The rest, as they say, is noise."

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100233894/cameron-the-quarterback-cant-keep-relying-on-a-hail-mary-pass/
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FPT @tim

    The census had a 94% completion rate, reducing the number of questions is an irrelevance, it would cost the same to collect anyway and reducing the data collected wouldn't push up returns above 94%

    That strikes me as very high - certainly there were some areas of London that I think (from memory) were down to 60% or so. Obviously not representative, but it does mean that you would need to get near complete returns elsewhere to achieve 94%.

    Can you provide a link?

    On the cost, yes the fixed costs are an element of it (I would have thought that you could use an internet based approach to reduce a substantial part of the costs, but obviously you'd need to make sure it is sufficiently comprehensive).

    Another big part of the costs loaded on though is the civil servants involved in the data analysis - that would be reduced by getting rid of inane questions.

    Moreover the principle should be that the government should only do what it is necessary for the government to do. Not what some bloke in Whitehall would like to do.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Financier said:

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    No, it was probably avoided as it does contain some interesting trends.
    Quite an oversight IMHO.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,984
    edited September 2013
    Financier said:

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    No, it was probably avoided as it does contain some interesting trends.
    Don't talk bollocks.

    It hasn't been avoided, I was busy on Sunday, and decided to lead with a more interesting VI poll Sunday (and it's follow up today) and then published a prepared thread OGH Sunday afternoon.

    Yesterday I ran four threads yesterday, three with VI/referendum polls and one betting thread.

    I'm not going to give priority to a 4 month old poll over those threads.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited September 2013

    Financier said:

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    No, it was probably avoided as it does contain some interesting trends.
    Don't talk bollocks.

    It hasn't been avoided, I was busy on Sunday, and decided to lead with a more interesting VI poll Sunday (and it's follow up today) and then published a prepared thread OGH Sunday afternoon.

    Yesterday I ran four threads yesterday, three with VI/referendum polls and one betting thread.

    I'm not going to give priority to a 4 month old poll over those threads.
    Can't you indulge their wild conspiracy theories even just a little bit?

    It would make them so happy ;-)
  • Charles said:

    Financier said:

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    No, it was probably avoided as it does contain some interesting trends.
    Don't talk bollocks.

    It hasn't been avoided, I was busy on Sunday, and decided to lead with a more interesting VI poll Sunday (and it's follow up today) and then published a prepared thread OGH Sunday afternoon.

    Yesterday I ran four threads yesterday, three with VI/referendum polls and one betting thread.

    I'm not going to give priority to a 4 month old poll over those threads.
    Can't you indulge their wild conspiracy theories even just a little bit?

    It would make them so happy ;-)
    Obviously as a grandchild of immigrants to this country, I'm going to avoid all discussions of immigration.
  • Betting Post

    Backed Wawrinka to beat Berdych in the US Open at 3.15. I think it's a 50/50 shot (Wawrinka's won 6 out of 11 prior meetings, similar proportion on hard courts only), rather than Wawrinka being the outsider as the odds suggest.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    @Charles

    "Although if Vodafone had had to pay tax then it would not have sold the business"

    Charles I'm pretty sure lots of businesses were bought and sold prior to 2005. Companies sell them if there is no strategic fit or they can deploy the cash better elsewhere. Vodaphone's issues with Verizon have been running for years so a sale would have taken place irrespective of what the tax laws were. In Plc world businesses aren't kept just because of tax laws. It's just another example of Labour getting panned by multinationals and the taxpayer picking up the tab. The question now is will the coalition change the law ?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Today prog telling Brownies about full time job stats - shoddy.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Dinner party conversation stopper, a Iosif Vissarionovich bronze death mask - just the thing for the right on, illiberal leftist in your life.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-23931065
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited September 2013
    Scanning through the Ashcroft immigration thing the basic outline seems to be that the voters believe what they read in the papers and are therefore spectacularly misinformed about immigration. This causes them to think it's very bad, but also makes pandering to their misinformation less of a vote-winner than you might hope, because even if you implement the policies they say they want, they won't believe you've done it.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited September 2013

    Financier said:

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    No, it was probably avoided as it does contain some interesting trends.
    Don't talk bollocks.

    It hasn't been avoided, I was busy on Sunday, and decided to lead with a more interesting VI poll Sunday (and it's follow up today) and then published a prepared thread OGH Sunday afternoon.

    Yesterday I ran four threads yesterday, three with VI/referendum polls and one betting thread.

    I'm not going to give priority to a 4 month old poll over those threads.
    Only four threads yesterday !!

    Kindly stop slacking on the job and provide the required "Ed is Crap" diet of hourly threads that will ensure a fit of the vapours for certain Cheshire farmers !!

  • Has anyone else spotted this "PB Tory hysteria"...maybe it's just in Cheshire.
    And another well used meme bites the dust'

    Anoher soaraway poll for the Labour Party..
  • For Mansion read .ordinary terraced house in Fulham Walthamstow, Dulwich...ownned and lived in by ordinary families who are probably strugling to get by, but let's hit them with another bill for 10-20 k a year ... nice one.
  • @JackW - I was worried that guest editing this site during this stint would be a difficult as it is the silly season and not much was happening, as I pointed out to OGH, a few weeks ago, the big polling story according to YouGov was about Jeremy Paxman's beard.

    Perhaps we can get YouGov, ICM or ARSE to poll about Viscount Thurso's beard?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    @JackW - I was worried that guest editing this site during this stint would be a difficult as it is the silly season and not much was happening, as I pointed out to OGH, a few weeks ago, the big polling story according to YouGov was about Jeremy Paxman's beard.

    Perhaps we can get YouGov, ICM or ARSE to poll about Viscount Thurso's beard?

    A poll of 20k wasn't worth a thread but last night's YouGov that happens 5x a week is? Sorry but your intemperate language says rather a lot. It had some fascinating stats in there and was featured in several national papers.
  • Plato said:

    @JackW - I was worried that guest editing this site during this stint would be a difficult as it is the silly season and not much was happening, as I pointed out to OGH, a few weeks ago, the big polling story according to YouGov was about Jeremy Paxman's beard.

    Perhaps we can get YouGov, ICM or ARSE to poll about Viscount Thurso's beard?

    A poll of 20k wasn't worth a thread but last night's YouGov that happens 5x a week is? Sorry but your intemperate language says rather a lot. It had some fascinating stats in there and was featured in several national papers.
    No.

    As I said, a poll that showed an increase of Labour's lead by 6% was an important poll, to put that poll into context, so it seems logical to follow up with the next poll by that organisation to see if that 6% increase was a harbinger or not.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993
    Morning all :)

    I don't usually talk about immigration because living in East Ham I see it up close and personal. As I said the other night, part of what has happened since the recession has been the emergence of a new insularity and a desire to maintain identity. So much of what has happened politically and socially since 2008 can be explained by this as insecurity breeds insularity.

    This morning's poll, like most, means very little. It's not helpful to micro-analyse movements of one or two points and build lofty scenarios from them. Labour have a small but solid lead and Ed Miliband was on the right side of opinion over Syria. Perhaps Cameron, who is more often than not on the right side of that opinion, thought he could convince through argument but he couldn't, for whatever reason, convince Parliament and he certainly hasn't convinced the country.

    Sometimes it's important to recognise, however in the right you think you are and however persuasive your argument may be, that some battles can't be won and it's best to walk away and that seemed to be the Clegg line yesterday. Of course, some will say, that wasn't the Thatcher approach but when you have solid majorities of 100+, you have more room for manoeuvre.
  • On the last thread I wondered how they verified census data. Well, there happens to be a document outlining the strategy, linked on the following page:

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/census/2011/how-our-census-works/how-we-took-the-2011-census/how-we-processed-the-information/data-quality-assurance/index.html

    I've very quickly skimmed it, and it seems like good reading for insomniacs.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Have we had a thread on Clegg's transformation from wimp to warrior? He has been given a free ride since the Syria business.
    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    tim said:

    Financier said:

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    No, it was probably avoided as it does contain some interesting trends.
    Why don't you go away and comment on a site more suited to ill informed anecdote then.
    You could postulate your theory on how the spread of landlines distorts YouGov polling and nobody would suss what a fool you are
    It is only the ignorant and stupid that resort to insults when they realise that they are losing the debate.
  • Have we had a thread on Clegg's transformation from wimp to warrior? He has been given a free ride since the Syria business.

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    I have a thread coming up either today or tomorrow entitled

    "Like Crassus, has Clegg's career ended in Syria?"
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited September 2013
    A failed social group - a terrible indictment.

    " POOR white boys are falling far behind at school, a study shows today.

    It found only 26 per cent of under-privileged white lads on free school meals got five good GCSEs last year.

    That compared to 40 per cent of poor black boys and 63 per cent of pupils, male or female, from all other backgrounds. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5112890/Poor-white-boys-trail-at-school-with-just-14-getting-good-GCSEs-results.html
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Do you reckon his mouth will be stuffed with gold?

    Have we had a thread on Clegg's transformation from wimp to warrior? He has been given a free ride since the Syria business.

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    I have a thread coming up either today or tomorrow entitled

    "Like Crassus, has Clegg's career ended in Syria?"
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited September 2013

    @JackW - I was worried that guest editing this site during this stint would be a difficult as it is the silly season and not much was happening, as I pointed out to OGH, a few weeks ago, the big polling story according to YouGov was about Jeremy Paxman's beard.

    Perhaps we can get YouGov, ICM or ARSE to poll about Viscount Thurso's beard?

    ARSE is still presently on summer recess enjoying a cruise in the Scottish Western Isles but perhaps a follicular related poll might have some merit :

    Q1 - Who do you blame for Mike Smithson's hirsute problems? :

    a. The last Labour government.
    b. The Coalition government.
    c. Both


    Q2 - Should bearded Scottish peer Viscount Thurso succeed David Cameron as PM shortly ?

    a. Unquestionably yes and within the week.
    b. Most definitely yes and within seven days.
    c. Next Tuesday can't come quick enough.
    d. Why isn't Viscountess Thurso measuring for No 10 curtains now.

    ARSE - Better Polling For A Greater Britain

  • Do you reckon his mouth will be stuffed with gold?

    Have we had a thread on Clegg's transformation from wimp to warrior? He has been given a free ride since the Syria business.

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    I have a thread coming up either today or tomorrow entitled

    "Like Crassus, has Clegg's career ended in Syria?"
    This is the Lib Dems, it will be most like to be muesli, not gold.
  • Twitters reporting a major military defection in Syria. Per the Iraq modus operandi, this person will provide conclusive testimony proving US claims about chemical weapons.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Interesting traffic figs

    Damian Thompson @holysmoke
    Monster traffic for Telegraph Blog stars: between 120K and 170K page views this week for @timothy_stanley @brokenbottleboy @DPJHodges
  • Twitters reporting a major military defection in Syria. Per the Iraq modus operandi, this person will provide conclusive testimony proving US claims about chemical weapons.

    If I were Joe Biden's Chief of Staff, I'd start to get very worried.
  • Financier said:


    It is only the ignorant and stupid that resort to insults

    Indeed.

  • Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    re wind farms - was the poll taken when the country was covered in fog?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    So you are voting LD at the next GE then :^ )
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited September 2013
    YEAH!

    World First @World_First
    UK construction PMI = 59.1 vs 56.9 expected and 57.0 previous

    ONS @statisticsONS
    Value of inward #acquisitions £23.4bn in Q2 2013, increasing sizeably from £3.5bn in Q1: bit.ly/1e6GN6L

    Sharpest inc in 6yrs for construction

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTOZT2lCIAEHHJ_.jpg:large
  • Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    I've never quite understood why some Tories believe so strongly that opposing wind farms is a winning issue for them. The polls consistently show strong support even amongst their own supporters.

    I've got severe reservations about them simply because they can't provide guaranteed electricity so there have to be back-up measures.



  • Plato said:

    Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    So you are voting LD at the next GE then :^ )
    Possibly, if as I am led to believe my seat of Sheffield Hallam is now a straight Lib Dem/Labour fight.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited September 2013
    That could be something @SeanT could blog for the Telegraph.

    Good, potential, click bait.

    Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

  • Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    I've never quite understood why some Tories believe so strongly that opposing wind farms is a winning issue for them. The polls consistently show strong support even amongst their own supporters.

    I've got severe reservations about them simply because they can't provide guaranteed electricity so there have to be back-up measures.



    I think it is Nimbyism
  • Stop knocking George - he's the great strategist you know
    tim said:

    @MirrorJames: George Osborne persuaded the PM to recall Parly for #Syria vote against the advice of @WilliamJHague says @RSylvesterTimes

    Hilarious.

  • tim said:

    No change in VI over the summer despite PB Tory hysteria.

    You said that yesterday, and I pointed out that the Labour lead has fallen from more than 9 to less than 6 since May.

  • Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    That should get the monkeys chucking their excrement around.
  • Charles said:

    Financier said:

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    No, it was probably avoided as it does contain some interesting trends.
    Don't talk bollocks.

    It hasn't been avoided, I was busy on Sunday, and decided to lead with a more interesting VI poll Sunday (and it's follow up today) and then published a prepared thread OGH Sunday afternoon.

    Yesterday I ran four threads yesterday, three with VI/referendum polls and one betting thread.

    I'm not going to give priority to a 4 month old poll over those threads.
    Can't you indulge their wild conspiracy theories even just a little bit?

    It would make them so happy ;-)
    Obviously as a grandchild of immigrants to this country, I'm going to avoid all discussions of immigration.
    I am not sure you should TSE.

    I know a fair few second and third generation immigrants who have very strong views on immigration and who surprised me by their view to new immigrants. Whilst they tend not to be overtly racist in their reasoning some of what they say could easily be coming from someone who could trace their family roots back in Britain for hundreds of years. Not saying that would be your view at all but certainly being descended from immigrants in recent history doesn't necessarily seem to make people pro-uncontrolled immigration.

    If you were born here you are as much British/English as the next man and have as much right to have an opinion about immigration, whether positive or negative, as the next person.

    Maybe we should have more second and third generation immigrants talking about their views and perceptions of our immigration policies. The idea that they should keep quiet about it is just wrong.
  • Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    That should get the monkeys chucking their excrement around.
    Unfortunately, the afternoon thread is going to be about something else, and wont get the monkeys excited.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Mr Eagles - why would you avoid discussions on immigration just because your grandparents moved here?

    That's a daft as saying you'll vote X or Y because Grandad did 100yrs ago.
  • For those who missed it, the interview with General Jack Keane on the Today programme (about 8.15) this morning was extremely revealing and informative. I'd very strongly recommend downloading it from the BBC website - the best-informed and authoritative insight into US military and political thinking on Syria that you're likely to find.
  • Stop knocking George - he's the great strategist you know

    tim said:

    @MirrorJames: George Osborne persuaded the PM to recall Parly for #Syria vote against the advice of @WilliamJHague says @RSylvesterTimes

    Hilarious.

    Looks like Osborne is a great parliamentarian as well as a great CotE.

  • Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    I've never quite understood why some Tories believe so strongly that opposing wind farms is a winning issue for them. The polls consistently show strong support even amongst their own supporters.

    I've got severe reservations about them simply because they can't provide guaranteed electricity so there have to be back-up measures.
    The anti-windfarm lobby are a very vocal minority, and the same group would be against any development in their area. I was walking around Grafham Water on Sunday and saw a sign at a arm stating 'no turbines here'. It seemed a good site to me: nothing special about it at all.

    The important thing is to make sure people who are effected by wind farms are compensated.

    My views on wind farms (as expressed passim on here) are nuanced. I've got no problem with many developments, but am rabidly against farms on moorland, and especially wilderness.

    As you say, there're also the problems of the intermittent nature of the power produced, as well as the cost.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ah the heady days of June......


    http://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2013/06/13/in-praise-of-lord-ashcroft-the-uks-leading-commissioner-of-political-polling/

    "To back his position Ashcroft has commissioned a mass of polling which suggests that the strategy that is being followed is probably not going to work.

    Ashcroft has ploughed huge amounts into expensive phone polling and big sample online surveys simply because he is a seeker after knowledge. Very generously he has made the full details of his polling available to others. He’s also been very responsive to points raised by poll watchers like me."
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Have we had a thread on Clegg's transformation from wimp to warrior? He has been given a free ride since the Syria business.

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    I have a thread coming up either today or tomorrow entitled

    "Like Crassus, has Clegg's career ended in Syria?"
    A pedantic w@nker notes: Carrhae (now Harran) is now in Turkey.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993

    Have we had a thread on Clegg's transformation from wimp to warrior? He has been given a free ride since the Syria business.

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    I have a thread coming up either today or tomorrow entitled

    "Like Crassus, has Clegg's career ended in Syria?"
    Well, as an LD, I look forward to seeing how you are going to present this. As late as last Wednesday, Nick, along with Paddy Ashdown and Shirley Williams, penned a piece in the London Evening Standard supporting military action as a way of upholding international law covering the possession and use of chemical weapons.

    That said, Nick couldn't carry the Parliamentary Party last Thursday though I thought he argued the case well in the HoC. I detect he's as anxious to move on as others are to re-visit but the point, as I mentioned in my previous, is that public opinion was and remains strongly opposed to British intervention of any kind in Syria at this time.

    Whether Cameron and Clegg thought they had a window of opportunity following the chemical attack to obtain authorisation for action I don't know but Ban Ki-Moon closed that down on the Thursday morning when he said his inspectors needed more time. Perhaps No.10 thought the Inspectors would have a report written much more quickly than has been the case.

    As for Nick's "career", on the assumptions that the Liberal Democrats will be a reduced Parliamentary presence and on the Opposition benches, I suspect Nick will step down fairly quickly after the election.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Stop knocking George - he's the great strategist you know

    tim said:

    @MirrorJames: George Osborne persuaded the PM to recall Parly for #Syria vote against the advice of @WilliamJHague says @RSylvesterTimes

    Hilarious.

    Looks like Osborne is a great parliamentarian as well as a great CotE.

    The Budget this year went off without a hitch - the economy is picking up in all sectors. Expect a thread about 2005 or something shortly.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,984
    edited September 2013
    @RichardT

    It's one of those topics that really doesn't get me excited, at various stages on here, and elsewhere I've either accused of being an Islamophobe or someone has said, I'm so English/British from my posts that I can't possibly be grandchild of immigrants to this country.

    It gets so confusing and the discussion is so binary.

    Either you're a racist if you want some control on immigration or you're wanting to see the British enslaved if you're in favour of some immigration.
  • Ishmael_X said:

    Have we had a thread on Clegg's transformation from wimp to warrior? He has been given a free ride since the Syria business.

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    I have a thread coming up either today or tomorrow entitled

    "Like Crassus, has Clegg's career ended in Syria?"
    A pedantic w@nker notes: Carrhae (now Harran) is now in Turkey.

    I know, but he was appointed Governor of Syria, and that's where it all went wrong for him
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    @RichardT

    It's one of those topics that really doesn't get me excited, at various stages on here, and elsewhere I've either accused of being an Islamophobe or someone has said, I'm so English/British from my posts that I can't possibly be grandchild of immigrants to this country.

    It gets so confusing and the discussion is so binary.

    Either you're a racist if you want some control on immigration or you're wanting to see the British enslaved if you're in favour of some immigration.

    So why then ignore a huge poll full of nuances just because its from May. You're arguing with yourself and losing.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited September 2013
    I can't have PBers criticising TSE's choice of topics for threads. This is unacceptable.

    His tastes in music, on the other hand...
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    I know a Scottish landowner who founded and chaired the Glenbollocks Preservation Society to protect the pristine beauty of Glenbollocks from windmills. One day he got a letter from MegaEvilWindfarmCorp with some proposals for the use of his barren acres. His letter of resignation, in order to spend more time with his income stream, was in the post to the Glenbollocks Preservation Society that same evening.

    So that is part of the tory support.
  • stodge said:

    Have we had a thread on Clegg's transformation from wimp to warrior? He has been given a free ride since the Syria business.

    Plato said:

    Did we ever have a thread on Ashcroft's 20k people poll? I must have missed it if we did.

    I have a thread coming up either today or tomorrow entitled

    "Like Crassus, has Clegg's career ended in Syria?"
    Well, as an LD, I look forward to seeing how you are going to present this. As late as last Wednesday, Nick, along with Paddy Ashdown and Shirley Williams, penned a piece in the London Evening Standard supporting military action as a way of upholding international law covering the possession and use of chemical weapons.

    That said, Nick couldn't carry the Parliamentary Party last Thursday though I thought he argued the case well in the HoC. I detect he's as anxious to move on as others are to re-visit but the point, as I mentioned in my previous, is that public opinion was and remains strongly opposed to British intervention of any kind in Syria at this time.

    Whether Cameron and Clegg thought they had a window of opportunity following the chemical attack to obtain authorisation for action I don't know but Ban Ki-Moon closed that down on the Thursday morning when he said his inspectors needed more time. Perhaps No.10 thought the Inspectors would have a report written much more quickly than has been the case.

    As for Nick's "career", on the assumptions that the Liberal Democrats will be a reduced Parliamentary presence and on the Opposition benches, I suspect Nick will step down fairly quickly after the election.
    I was going to use this polling

    http://www.libdemvoice.org/syria-lib-dem-members-poll-35939.html

    (Note, I'm still a fan of Clegg, which probably explains is his problems)
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Coal, not cold!

    Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    I've never quite understood why some Tories believe so strongly that opposing wind farms is a winning issue for them. The polls consistently show strong support even amongst their own supporters.

    I've got severe reservations about them simply because they can't provide guaranteed electricity so there have to be back-up measures.



    I think it is Nimbyism
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Plato said:

    Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    So you are voting LD at the next GE then :^ )
    Possibly, if as I am led to believe my seat of Sheffield Hallam is now a straight Lib Dem/Labour fight.
    Sheffield Hallam is a comfortable LibDem hold for Clegg. The only question is the size of the considerable majority. It most certainly is not a viable target for either Labour or the Conservatives.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Hard to beat for an off the peg quote

    LBC 97.3 @lbc973
    Boris: If Barclays give £100 million pounds for the cycle scheme, I'll change my name to Barclays Johnson bit.ly/1a2BjHw #AskBoris
  • JackW said:

    Plato said:

    Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    So you are voting LD at the next GE then :^ )
    Possibly, if as I am led to believe my seat of Sheffield Hallam is now a straight Lib Dem/Labour fight.
    Sheffield Hallam is a comfortable LibDem hold for Clegg. The only question is the size of the considerable majority. It most certainly is not a viable target for either Labour or the Conservatives.

    I know, but this guy thinks Nick Clegg can be toppled in Sheffield Hallam

    http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2013/07/01/we-can-topple-clegg-in-sheffield-hallam/
  • JackW said:

    Sheffield Hallam is a comfortable LibDem hold for Clegg. The only question is the size of the considerable majority. It most certainly is not a viable target for either Labour or the Conservatives.

    But what about Shadsy's 100/1 on Peter Stringfellow?
  • I've just had a look at the Sheffield Hallam odds

    LD 1/3

    Labour 4/1

    Conservatives 10/1

    Which is odd as Clegg polled 27k in 2010, the Tories 12k, and Labour 8k.

    Might be worth a punt on the Tories as a value bet.
  • @RichardT

    It's one of those topics that really doesn't get me excited, at various stages on here, and elsewhere I've either accused of being an Islamophobe or someone has said, I'm so English/British from my posts that I can't possibly be grandchild of immigrants to this country.

    It gets so confusing and the discussion is so binary.

    Either you're a racist if you want some control on immigration or you're wanting to see the British enslaved if you're in favour of some immigration.

    LOL. I can see that. My attitude tends to be that Englishness is a state of mind not of skin colour. Its all about shared cultural references.

    Actually one of the things I like about the internet and discussion groups like this is that you can honestly be colour blind unless someone actually makes a point of talking about their background. I like to think it confirms my views of race and ethnicity being secondary to cultural influences.
  • In very important Sheffield news, and further proof that Sheffield is going be the most important city of the 21st century

    Sheffield United have revealed that the new co-owner of the club is HRH Prince Abdullah bin Mosaad bin Abdulaziz Al Saud.

    Prince Abdullah is part of the Saudi Arabian royal family, one of the richest royal families in the world, worth an estimated £21billion.

    The Prince will become co-chairman of the club alongside current chairman Kevin McCabe.

    Prince Abdullah will be joined on the United board by Abdulraham Bin Abdullah, James Phipps and Selahattin Baki


    Read more: http://www.sheffutd.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=331135#ixzz2dolUb1Es
  • Poor old Carney. Travels all the way to London, sets up home, comes up with some guff in an attempt to redefine central banking.

    Almost immediately, economy takes off.

    Interest rates going up much sooner than we think, starting with gilts (10yr to 3% soonish I reckon), barring an external disaster.
  • Plato said:

    I'll change my name to Barclays Johnson bit.ly/1a2BjHw #AskBoris

    Confirmation for some people of what they've always suspected.
  • In very important Sheffield news, and further proof that Sheffield is going be the most important city of the 21st century

    Sheffield United have revealed that the new co-owner of the club is HRH Prince Abdullah bin Mosaad bin Abdulaziz Al Saud.

    Prince Abdullah is part of the Saudi Arabian royal family, one of the richest royal families in the world, worth an estimated £21billion.

    The Prince will become co-chairman of the club alongside current chairman Kevin McCabe.

    Prince Abdullah will be joined on the United board by Abdulraham Bin Abdullah, James Phipps and Selahattin Baki


    Read more: http://www.sheffutd.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=331135#ixzz2dolUb1Es

    Ah, that beacon of democracy, Saudi Arabia!
  • YouGov/The Sunil:

    Progressives 49%
    Tories 33%
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,984
    edited September 2013

    @RichardT

    It's one of those topics that really doesn't get me excited, at various stages on here, and elsewhere I've either accused of being an Islamophobe or someone has said, I'm so English/British from my posts that I can't possibly be grandchild of immigrants to this country.

    It gets so confusing and the discussion is so binary.

    Either you're a racist if you want some control on immigration or you're wanting to see the British enslaved if you're in favour of some immigration.

    LOL. I can see that. My attitude tends to be that Englishness is a state of mind not of skin colour. Its all about shared cultural references.

    Actually one of the things I like about the internet and discussion groups like this is that you can honestly be colour blind unless someone actually makes a point of talking about their background. I like to think it confirms my views of race and ethnicity being secondary to cultural influences.
    It was a discussion about restricting first cousin marriages from Pakistan, that led to all sorts of accusations of me being a racist that I was stereotyping Pakistanis and told to eff off back to the BNP.

    On another forum, I was accused of displaying the typical arrogance of a Yorkshireman, that has existed since the vikings, and I must trace my lineage to the Vikings. I was like erm...

    I agree with the Englishness state of mind.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Plato said:

    Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    Well that's the afternoon thread sorted

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 12m

    By 68% to 15% Opinium finds likely voters are in favour of wind farms
    CON voters split 61% in favour 23% against

    http://goo.gl/hSEJvF

    So you are voting LD at the next GE then :^ )
    Possibly, if as I am led to believe my seat of Sheffield Hallam is now a straight Lib Dem/Labour fight.
    Sheffield Hallam is a comfortable LibDem hold for Clegg. The only question is the size of the considerable majority. It most certainly is not a viable target for either Labour or the Conservatives.

    I know, but this guy thinks Nick Clegg can be toppled in Sheffield Hallam

    http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2013/07/01/we-can-topple-clegg-in-sheffield-hallam/
    Clearly he needs psychiatric help, if that is he's not posting from Broadmoor !!

  • http://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2013/sep/02/good-news-bad-bank-england-mark-carney

    "It seems perverse, but Mark Carney could do with some bad news on the economy. Ever since the Bank of England's new governor arrived, the data has been relentlessly upbeat, and that's not so good if your message is that a fragile recovery requires interest rates to be held ultra-low for the next three years."
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Sheffield Hallam is a comfortable LibDem hold for Clegg. The only question is the size of the considerable majority. It most certainly is not a viable target for either Labour or the Conservatives.

    But what about Shadsy's 100/1 on Peter Stringfellow?
    I'd sooner put money on "tim" defecting to Ukip !!

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2013/sep/02/good-news-bad-bank-england-mark-carney

    "It seems perverse, but Mark Carney could do with some bad news on the economy. Ever since the Bank of England's new governor arrived, the data has been relentlessly upbeat, and that's not so good if your message is that a fragile recovery requires interest rates to be held ultra-low for the next three years."

    He needs some good news on spending to bring down the deficit - otherwise could be a cashless recovery.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,993


    I was going to use this polling

    http://www.libdemvoice.org/syria-lib-dem-members-poll-35939.html

    (Note, I'm still a fan of Clegg, which probably explains is his problems)

    Not sure how contentious that polling is. 25% oppose all intervention, 7% support it now with the majority supportive under certain caveats such as waiting for the Inspectors Report and a UN resolution.

    As an LD member, I'm comfortably in with the majority but that poll was from earlier last week before the vote and before any later revelations so I suspect that if you think that puts Nick in any kind of hot water, I'd argue those waters are tepid going on cold.

    FWIW, I took part in that survey as I do many of those commissioned by Stephen Tall.

  • @RichardT

    It's one of those topics that really doesn't get me excited, at various stages on here, and elsewhere I've either accused of being an Islamophobe or someone has said, I'm so English/British from my posts that I can't possibly be grandchild of immigrants to this country.

    It gets so confusing and the discussion is so binary.

    Either you're a racist if you want some control on immigration or you're wanting to see the British enslaved if you're in favour of some immigration.

    LOL. I can see that. My attitude tends to be that Englishness is a state of mind not of skin colour. Its all about shared cultural references.

    Actually one of the things I like about the internet and discussion groups like this is that you can honestly be colour blind unless someone actually makes a point of talking about their background. I like to think it confirms my views of race and ethnicity being secondary to cultural influences.
    It was a discussion about restricting first cousin marriages from Pakistan, that led to all sorts of accusations of me being a racist that I was stereotyping Pakistanis and told to eff off back to the BNP.

    On another forum, I was accused of displaying the typical arrogance of a Yorkshireman, that has existed since the vikings, and I must trace my lineage to the Vikings. I was like erm...

    I agree with the Englishness state of mind.
    From those responses I can see why you are not exactly jumping up and down with eagerness to jump in on the topic :-)
  • http://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2013/sep/02/good-news-bad-bank-england-mark-carney

    "It seems perverse, but Mark Carney could do with some bad news on the economy. Ever since the Bank of England's new governor arrived, the data has been relentlessly upbeat, and that's not so good if your message is that a fragile recovery requires interest rates to be held ultra-low for the next three years."

    On 870 grand a year, Carney doesn't need to worry about interest on any savings!
  • With Stric

    I can't have PBers criticising TSE's choice of topics for threads. This is unacceptable.

    His tastes in music, on the other hand...

    You may be delighted to know, I also plan to do a thread on Strictly Come Dancing.

    It is back on the TV on Saturday.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I've just had a look at the Sheffield Hallam odds

    LD 1/3

    Labour 4/1

    Conservatives 10/1

    Which is odd as Clegg polled 27k in 2010, the Tories 12k, and Labour 8k.

    Might be worth a punt on the Tories as a value bet.

    Utter waste unless you think you might trade the wager off later or you consider Clegg will bugger off before the election.

  • Now, the big news, Ireland v England.

    England win the toss and bowl.
  • JackW said:

    I've just had a look at the Sheffield Hallam odds

    LD 1/3

    Labour 4/1

    Conservatives 10/1

    Which is odd as Clegg polled 27k in 2010, the Tories 12k, and Labour 8k.

    Might be worth a punt on the Tories as a value bet.

    Utter waste unless you think you might trade the wager off later or you consider Clegg will bugger off before the election.

    That's what I was thinking.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    With Stric

    I can't have PBers criticising TSE's choice of topics for threads. This is unacceptable.

    His tastes in music, on the other hand...

    You may be delighted to know, I also plan to do a thread on Strictly Come Dancing.

    It is back on the TV on Saturday.
    Betting I presume ?

    Are you planning to lay Rachel Reeves ? *innocent face*
  • TGOHF said:

    With Stric

    I can't have PBers criticising TSE's choice of topics for threads. This is unacceptable.

    His tastes in music, on the other hand...

    You may be delighted to know, I also plan to do a thread on Strictly Come Dancing.

    It is back on the TV on Saturday.
    Betting I presume ?

    Are you planning to lay Rachel Reeves ? *innocent face*
    Yes and yes.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    With Stric

    I can't have PBers criticising TSE's choice of topics for threads. This is unacceptable.

    His tastes in music, on the other hand...

    You may be delighted to know, I also plan to do a thread on Strictly Come Dancing.

    It is back on the TV on Saturday.
    Betting I presume ?

    Are you planning to lay Rachel Reeves ? *innocent face*
    Yes and yes.
    Given your track record perhaps I should get on her ?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Now, the big news, Ireland v England.

    England win the toss and bowl.

    Mrs JackW is away so a day of cricketing indulgence beckons and a bloody fine lunch to boot !!

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited September 2013
    Perhaps Prince Abbullah thought Sheffield Wednesday was a bank holiday.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038

    For those who missed it, the interview with General Jack Keane on the Today programme (about 8.15) this morning was extremely revealing and informative. I'd very strongly recommend downloading it from the BBC website - the best-informed and authoritative insight into US military and political thinking on Syria that you're likely to find.

    Agreed. What he was saying is that the Americans don't do slaps on the wrist, if they go after Syria it will be to degrade and destroy Assad's military capability with the intention of changing the balance of power in the civil war.

    I must confess I have been wavering a little about my opposition to intervention but that interview confirmed my original views. Regime change, naivity about what comes next, it was all there despite General Keane clearly being a very informed and intelligent person with vast experience of Iraq.

    His comments about the US wanting to disengage with the middle east were particularly interesting but hard to reconcile with the decisions allegedly made.

    The temptation to bring this vote back to the Commons so we can all laugh at Miliband's change of heart must be strong but I very much hope it is resisted.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    dr_spyn said:

    Perhaps Prince Abbullah thought Sheffield Wednesday was a bank holiday.

    LOL

  • TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    With Stric

    I can't have PBers criticising TSE's choice of topics for threads. This is unacceptable.

    His tastes in music, on the other hand...

    You may be delighted to know, I also plan to do a thread on Strictly Come Dancing.

    It is back on the TV on Saturday.
    Betting I presume ?

    Are you planning to lay Rachel Reeves ? *innocent face*
    Yes and yes.
    Given your track record perhaps I should get on her ?
    Hey, I've accurately predicted the winner of strictly 4 out of the last 5 years.

    My tips for this year are Sophie Ellis Bextor, Rachel Riley and Ben Cohen.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Warmongers- 42%

    Peace Parties- 52%

    YouGov/The Sunil:

    Progressives 49%
    Tories 33%

  • TGOHF said:

    With Stric

    I can't have PBers criticising TSE's choice of topics for threads. This is unacceptable.

    His tastes in music, on the other hand...

    You may be delighted to know, I also plan to do a thread on Strictly Come Dancing.

    It is back on the TV on Saturday.
    Betting I presume ?

    Are you planning to lay Rachel Reeves ? *innocent face*
    Yes and yes.
    I like both Rachel and Stella! *innocent face*
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Warmongers- 42%

    Peace Parties- 52%

    YouGov/The Sunil:

    Progressives 49%
    Tories 33%

    Or ....

    Saving Syrian Babies 42%

    Appeasing Assad Arseholes 52%

  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    edited September 2013
    Apologies if this is old news: according to Russian wire and now Bloomberg, two missiles launched from a US ship in east Med; also reports of a gas pipeline in Syria exploding.

    [edit for link]

    Jon Passantino ✔ @passantino

    WIRE: Russia reports missiles fired in Mediterranean (Interfax) pic.twitter.com/RnKIl96hwq

    [further update] - missile launches reported but no corresponding impacts detected.

  • DavidL said:

    The temptation to bring this vote back to the Commons so we can all laugh at Miliband's change of heart must be strong but I very much hope it is resisted.

    Not gonna happen.

    What may well happen, as Dan Hodges pointed out yesterday, is that there is a vote on a motion approving of US action. Labour's position in such a vote would be interesting.
  • Just off for another long day on the beach.

    The weater here, 5km north of the Spanish border is perfect.
This discussion has been closed.