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Perhaps it is time to review these markets, this is not good for Dave, I suspect there is no chance of UK participation in any military intervention in Syria now
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Very, very crap.
This kills it once and for all and quickly. Much, much neater.
Will make Hague's task in the UNSC virtually impossible.
Interesting to see what Obama does now. Much I guess will depend on Turkey and France.
I rather fear we will be returning to this issue but I hope it won't be in response to continued and aggravated use of chemical weapons in Syria.
Cameron has played it straight. The residual poison left by Blair is still corrosive.
Significant final point of order from Miliband. Forces Cameron to rule out royal prerogative.
PM "gets" that the people and Parliament do not favour an attack.
Let the US who sat on it the whole way through deal with it.
So much for the silly season.
Seriously, what on Earth does tim mean by this?
His judgement is clearly that launching a military assault on Syria is in Britain's national interest. He couldn't carry Parliament with that judgement.
How can he possibly lead the country from here?
The right decision too IMO.
When will we see the next "Ed is Crap" thread. It ha sbeen at least 24 hours !!
David Cameron promised to transfer questions of peace and war to MPs and emphatically kept his word. Good for him, good for democracy.
No need for partisan stuff or egos.
Quick edit to make that 2013, presumably?
Dave will hang on, surely? He doesn't even technically need parliamentary approval for a war and the rebellion was smaller than the Iraq war one. Certainly it looks bad to have miscalculated, but this isn't resignation material.
Ironically, this last statement was genuinely statesmanlike.
I don't think he will, or should, resign though.
As for Miliband. Remember the silly season "weak" stuff? No? Me neither.
As someone who has always opposed intervention I can't say I am too devastated by the result but the damage is substantial and permanent. Both Cameron and the UK will be diminished by this.
I have never understood the governments' thinking on this. All of the polling showed enormous opposition in the country. We will not recover from the lies of Iraq for a generation. We just don't want to play any more.
I seriously wonder if Hague might resign. I think he might.
There is a possibility that Hague will resign.
But I think he will be persuaded to stay on the grounds that events will overtake the vote.
It is very characteristic of this Cameron government. Cameron leads more as a Chairman rather than CEO. He is quite happy to change tack in adverse winds and this can give the impression of not being in control but although he will be disappointed by the defeat it won't throw him off course.
I need to repeat it again.....An absolute shocker from Cameron. There is crap...there is really crap and there is David Cameron.
Barry Gardiner MP @BarryGardiner
Gove loses it in the lobby! Accusing colleagues of supporting Assad in a very high pitched voice.
Oh well, if parliament is not fussed about the 80-year world ban on chemical warfare coming to a de facto end, so be it. The ban has been spectacularly successful - we may have failed on stopping many other nasty things, but that one has lasted unbelievably well, with just a few exceptions, until tonight.
Well done, Ed.
Over to you, Assad. You've got free rein now.
My hunch is that hardly any of them will have voted in favour of action.
The Prime Minister has three fundamental duties.
1. Protect the national interest through all means necessary.
2. Carry a Queens Speech.
3. Carry a budget.
If a Prime Minister falls short of any of those duties their authority is finished.
It just so happens Cameron has fallen short on the first and most important duty of all - His authority will never recover either with his party or with the country.
There is absolutely no way I could carry on leading the country/government/Tories in these circumstances.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/commons/todays-commons-debates/read/unknown/11/
We can't even use the Lib Dems as a scapegoat.
This one was lost by the Tory backbenchers.
In terms of this country's democracy the response from Mr Cameron sounds good to me.2135: UK Prime Minister David Cameron tells MPs: "It's clear to me that the British parliament and the British people do not wish to see military action; I get that, and I will act accordingly."
Here is some recent polling. Which is not markedly different from US public opinion.
Commons didn't back Con policy, Lib policy or Lab policy. Instead it backed UKIP policy!
:-)
MPs can actually get to influence events.
They saw through the lies. The JIC report was risible. YouTube... FFS
14 previous chemical attacks. LIES
Only Assad could have done it. LIES
Stunning scenes. Michael Gove overheard shouting at Tory rebels outside Commons chamber: “You’re a disgrace, you’re a disgrace”.
The problem, not for the first time, is that the tory party has become ungovernable and arguably incapable of governing. Only 285 votes against, some no doubt tory. The government should have been able to win this vote fairly easily but their own MPs did not support it.
I really will be surprised if Hague is in the government by the end of the weekend.
This is pure, 100%, party politics by Ed Miliband, completely unconcerned with the consequences in terms of the message it sends out.
Fair enough.
Labour, but more importantly the victims, will have to live (or die) with it.
Good luck. They'll need it.
Or short term political implications.
Longer term, 2015, just watch that "narrative" move on now from the 'Ed Miliband picks his nose haha!' silly season guff...
Shouldn't he be going around kissing their Osbornes, he will need their votes to replace Cameron.
Which Conservative MP do you think they should elect to the Premiership instead?
Well I was right - it was always likely that with Labour against that there would be enough Con/LD rebels to defeat the Government.
Especially when you a have a chunk who are simply determined to get Cameron. the substance of the issue is irrelevant - they are het up about gay marriage and simply want to get him.
He took his own leadership defeat well with a high degree of self-awareness of his weaknesses in terms of appeal to the then electorate.
According to Fox News, it looks like Obama is going ahead with his plans for intervention in Syria. Much more likely the UN will be by-passed now that the UK is out of the game.
Something must change there....
"Over to you, Assad. You've got free rein now."
From declaring SeanT's latest scribblings 'a work of genius' you've now taken to aping his style.
Can we have the old Nabavi back?
I think parliament probably reached the correct decision because it is a devilish issue and striking Syria with missiles can't be guaranteed to make the situation better. Hence the unusual, surprising result. I'm not convinced it is right to take action despite my heart telling me we should string Assad up from a lamp-post. The situation is so complex.
Cameron was still right to recall parliament and to offer the vote. The fact he has lost will be temporarily embarrassing but the Syria issue is not going away and the vote reasserted parliamentary democracy.
We are going to look like weak hand-wringers across the globe though and our standing in the world will be diminished. But Cameron is head of a coalition, he has no majority, this vote proves that whatever he had chosen to do, he would've lost. The appetite within parliament just isn't there to strike.
It is going to look awful it Assad gasses more civilians but I doubt he will.