Hammond will not be able to make any real changes.The deficit will not allow him to create winners without also creating losers. And any move that creates losers will result in howls from the Tory backbenches. So stand by for some meaningless tinkering/
Looks like kite flying to me. Could, examining, pushed... Phil wondering if anyone has any decent ideas, which weren't in the Labour manifesto. Anybody?
Mr Dancer, there is a piece in The Times today in the Sport section, "When death stalked F1 at every turn". It is based on the era of The Good Lady Wifi's film - which they kindly refer to as "one of the best sporting films for years". It's out on DVD 6th November, if you would like to fill a gap in your F1 history....
FPT - this is probably a minority view, but I'd far rather the Duke of Westminster and the Grosvenor family, who have a stake in London and the country dating back centuries, held onto their estates via trusts rather than were taxed to the eyeballs.
If they were, the Exchequer might get a one-off windfall, and then all the prime London land that was sold off would end up in the hands of largely ex-pat wealthy Russians, Emiratis and Chinese, some of whom are ethically questionable, and have quite a different agenda.
There is the danger now that Hammond will have built this up and then on the day it will be a damp squid.
First it will be a damp squib, 24 hours later it will have fallen apart, 48 hours later it will have been called the () tax and everyone will remember why they didn't want to vote Tory in June.
The only thing is, 100% of the younger generation are children of the older generation, and v.v. for a substantial proportion of the older generation, and so perhaps Hammond will get away with it if it looks more like a boost to the young, than a raid on the old.
FPT Inheritance Tax, aristocrats have Roy Jenkins to thank for exempting country houses and their works of art from the tax, in return for being open to the public at various times of the year.
It would be better, in my view, to make all property subject to IHT, ending the exemptions for woodlands, businesses, agricultural land, country houses, while reducing the rate to, say, 20%.
Does seem odd having decisively lost the youth vote to now go for the old. But the next election is already lost.. Theresa May's judgement is shot. How could any thinking person sack the reasonably competent Osborne and appoint the useless and malevolent Johnson? I'm sorry but she's lost it
I suspect the market's there for it, what with Rush, Senna and Ferrari's resurgence this year (even though they were horrendously unlucky with the spark plug).
I suspect this will antagonise the elderly and not assuage the youthful.
As Nick P (iirc) said the other day - younger people aren't listening to Tories. Just totally not interested in anything they have to say.
It will have to be a massive splash to make a difference to that I think.
The appeal of Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell suggests they can be bought though....
I suspect the young were just as motivated by Hard Brexit/end of FOM/focus on immigration as they were by a tuition fees policy which would only benefit a minority of 18-24 year olds.
I hear young people like to dance to popular music at venues known as discotheques and that they have mobile telephones on which it is possible to see Internet
I hear young people like to dance to popular music at venues known as discotheques and that they have mobile telephones on which it is possible to see Internet
Probably my favourite moment on Would I Lie to You
FPT - this is probably a minority view, but I'd far rather the Duke of Westminster and the Grosvenor family, who have a stake in London and the country dating back centuries, held onto their estates via trusts rather than were taxed to the eyeballs.
If they were, the Exchequer might get a one-off windfall, and then all the prime London land that was sold off would end up in the hands of largely ex-pat wealthy Russians, Emiratis and Chinese, some of whom are ethically questionable, and have quite a different agenda.
Indeed. Attlee took our home and the new owners have demonstrated a whole lot less love for the old place than we ever did
If the government published the payback time by university and department for university education - figures they have in the Student Loan Company - only the courses worth attending would survive and the student loan problem would disappear. Nobody would mind paying for a course with a positive payback, nobody could blame anybody but themselves if they took anyother.
I suspect this will antagonise the elderly and not assuage the youthful.
As Nick P (iirc) said the other day - younger people aren't listening to Tories. Just totally not interested in anything they have to say.
It will have to be a massive splash to make a difference to that I think.
The appeal of Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell suggests they can be bought though....
I suspect the young were just as motivated by Hard Brexit/end of FOM/focus on immigration as they were by a tuition fees policy which would only benefit a minority of 18-24 year olds.
I agree. The Tories will never be able to make a broad appeal to young people whilst the millstone of Brexit is round their necks. And it will certainly still be there at the next election.
Hammond will not be able to make any real changes.The deficit will not allow him to create winners without also creating losers. And any move that creates losers will result in howls from the Tory backbenches. So stand by for some meaningless tinkering/
Sounds like he's going to target those 40-50+ but in work.
FPT Inheritance Tax, aristocrats have Roy Jenkins to thank for exempting country houses and their works of art from the tax, in return for being open to the public at various times of the year.
It would be better, in my view, to make all property subject to IHT, ending the exemptions for woodlands, businesses, agricultural land, country houses, while reducing the rate to, say, 20%.
The problem with businesses that are not traded (so private SME say or family company) is how do you value you them on day X, and even if you can do that what if there is no cash to actually pay for value Y. You easily end up destroying them to make them liquid to pay the tax of Z (so they are in turn probably not worth the Y anyway at that point), which in absolutely nobody's interest.
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
Uniform NI for workers above & below 65, and on PAYE and self employed would be the most equitable situation. If you plot those into a 2x2 matrix, the current situation varies wildly for the same income.
Hammond will not be able to make any real changes.The deficit will not allow him to create winners without also creating losers. And any move that creates losers will result in howls from the Tory backbenches. So stand by for some meaningless tinkering/
Sounds like he's going to target those 40-50+ but in work.
Leaving the pensioners alone.
He better bloody not - I'll head to Europe rather than just selling my skills there...
FPT Inheritance Tax, aristocrats have Roy Jenkins to thank for exempting country houses and their works of art from the tax, in return for being open to the public at various times of the year.
It would be better, in my view, to make all property subject to IHT, ending the exemptions for woodlands, businesses, agricultural land, country houses, while reducing the rate to, say, 20%.
I suspect this will antagonise the elderly and not assuage the youthful.
As Nick P (iirc) said the other day - younger people aren't listening to Tories. Just totally not interested in anything they have to say.
It will have to be a massive splash to make a difference to that I think.
The appeal of Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell suggests they can be bought though....
No. Nothing to do with being bought. Labour allow older young people to believe that they can relive their students' union days.
Whilst I appreciate your point, there is a real danger for the Tories here. I am 50. If it is a choice between the Party of the Old or Party of the Young, I will instinctively side with the Young. Because that's how I want to be seen.
I heard Johnson on the 1 o'clock news doing his Billy Bunter The owl of the Remove routine and it was embarrassing. Does anyone apart from HYUFD see anything in him other than an overweight sleazeball?
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
Of course we could just put interest rates up a bit to help lower house prices for the young and improve the buying power of pension pots/reduce company deficits for the old (and the young eventually).
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
It’s not the different charges which are the issue. An employer may fall foul of age discrimination legislation if he gets rid of - or doesn’t hire - an older worker because a younger one is cheaper. It may also cause issues under sex discrimination legislation if women who have taken time out to raise their families find it harder to get work.
There is the danger now that Hammond will have built this up and then on the day it will be a damp squid.
Aren't all squids damp?
Given the current state of public finances, all of us can expect to be taxed to the cuttlebone.
Assume he meant squib.
But calamari is rather dry and chewy in my experience
Talking of food, did anyone progress thee PB lunch idea? Saw a lady reading All Out War on the tube today and it reminded me that people are interested in politics in real life too!
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
Yes NI must end at retirement if you stop working I think... The article says older workers - so presumably before retirement?
Imagine Hammond is floating ideas to see what goes down badly.
I suspect this will antagonise the elderly and not assuage the youthful.
As Nick P (iirc) said the other day - younger people aren't listening to Tories. Just totally not interested in anything they have to say.
It will have to be a massive splash to make a difference to that I think.
The appeal of Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell suggests they can be bought though....
I suspect the young were just as motivated by Hard Brexit/end of FOM/focus on immigration as they were by a tuition fees policy which would only benefit a minority of 18-24 year olds.
I agree. The Tories will never be able to make a broad appeal to young people whilst the millstone of Brexit is round their necks. And it will certainly still be there at the next election.
Not, the youngest of the young.
However, 38% of 25-34 year olds supported Brexit, as did 48% of 35-44 year olds. And once people turned 42, they were more likely than not to support Brexit.
I heard Johnson on the 1 o'clock news doing his Billy Bunter The owl of the Remove routine and it was embarrassing. Does anyone apart from HYUFD see anything in him other than an overweight sleazeball?
On this I agree with you entirely. Il n’est pas un homme serieux.
I suspect this will antagonise the elderly and not assuage the youthful.
As Nick P (iirc) said the other day - younger people aren't listening to Tories. Just totally not interested in anything they have to say.
It will have to be a massive splash to make a difference to that I think.
The appeal of Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell suggests they can be bought though....
No. Nothing to do with being bought. Labour allow older young people to believe that they can relive their students' union days.
Whilst I appreciate your point, there is a real danger for the Tories here. I am 50. If it is a choice between the Party of the Old or Party of the Young, I will instinctively side with the Young. Because that's how I want to be seen.
Maybe so. I certainly agree that the Tories have a communication block when it comes to young people, but part of the advantage of being no longer a young person is the perspective that comes with that which is something I wouldn't want to exchange just because I still see myself in ripped jeans dancing at one nightclub or another.
I suspect this will antagonise the elderly and not assuage the youthful.
As Nick P (iirc) said the other day - younger people aren't listening to Tories. Just totally not interested in anything they have to say.
It will have to be a massive splash to make a difference to that I think.
The appeal of Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell suggests they can be bought though....
No. Nothing to do with being bought. Labour allow older young people to believe that they can relive their students' union days.
Whilst I appreciate your point, there is a real danger for the Tories here. I am 50. If it is a choice between the Party of the Old or Party of the Young, I will instinctively side with the Young. Because that's how I want to be seen.
Maybe so. I certainly agree that the Tories have a communication block when it comes to young people, but part of the advantage of being no longer a young person is the perspective that comes with that which is something I wouldn't want to exchange just because I still see myself in ripped jeans dancing at one nightclub or another.
Maybe the Tories need someone like Ali G to communicate with young people.
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
It’s not the different charges which are the issue. An employer may fall foul of age discrimination legislation if he gets rid of - or doesn’t hire - an older worker because a younger one is cheaper. It may also cause issues under sex discrimination legislation if women who have taken time out to raise their families find it harder to get work.
Fair enough. But doesn't that already apply re minimum wage? As others say though, I'm not entirely sure how having 2 people doing the same job on the same pay being charged different tax rates would help.
I suspect this will antagonise the elderly and not assuage the youthful.
As Nick P (iirc) said the other day - younger people aren't listening to Tories. Just totally not interested in anything they have to say.
It will have to be a massive splash to make a difference to that I think.
The appeal of Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell suggests they can be bought though....
I suspect the young were just as motivated by Hard Brexit/end of FOM/focus on immigration as they were by a tuition fees policy which would only benefit a minority of 18-24 year olds.
I agree. The Tories will never be able to make a broad appeal to young people whilst the millstone of Brexit is round their necks. And it will certainly still be there at the next election.
Not, the youngest of the young.
However, 38% of 25-34 year olds supported Brexit, as did 48% of 35-44 year olds. And once people turned 42, they were more likely than not to support Brexit.
The problem with reading too much into these statistics is that as the weeks go by, 'supporting Brexit' is becoming less and less of a theoretical proposition. The country is losing its Brexit innocence.
Mr Dancer, there is a piece in The Times today in the Sport section, "When death stalked F1 at every turn". It is based on the era of The Good Lady Wifi's film - which they kindly refer to as "one of the best sporting films for years". It's out on DVD 6th November, if you would like to fill a gap in your F1 history....
You need to talk to Roger about including the pack shot. What's it bloody called?
I suspect this will antagonise the elderly and not assuage the youthful.
As Nick P (iirc) said the other day - younger people aren't listening to Tories. Just totally not interested in anything they have to say.
It will have to be a massive splash to make a difference to that I think.
The appeal of Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell suggests they can be bought though....
I suspect the young were just as motivated by Hard Brexit/end of FOM/focus on immigration as they were by a tuition fees policy which would only benefit a minority of 18-24 year olds.
I agree. The Tories will never be able to make a broad appeal to young people whilst the millstone of Brexit is round their necks. And it will certainly still be there at the next election.
Not, the youngest of the young.
However, 38% of 25-34 year olds supported Brexit, as did 48% of 35-44 year olds. And once people turned 42, they were more likely than not to support Brexit.
The problem with reading too much into these statistics is that as the weeks go by, 'supporting Brexit' is becoming less and less of a theoretical proposition. The country is losing its Brexit innocence.
Mr Dancer, there is a piece in The Times today in the Sport section, "When death stalked F1 at every turn". It is based on the era of The Good Lady Wifi's film - which they kindly refer to as "one of the best sporting films for years". It's out on DVD 6th November, if you would like to fill a gap in your F1 history....
You need to talk to Roger about including the pack shot. What's it bloody called?
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
Yes NI must end at retirement if you stop working I think... The article says older workers - so presumably before retirement?
Imagine Hammond is floating ideas to see what goes down badly.
Not quite, if you continue working past retirement age then you no longer pay employee NI, so it gives working pensioners an 11% pay increase (in addition to your state pension) compared with younger workers.
If the government published the payback time by university and department for university education - figures they have in the Student Loan Company - only the courses worth attending would survive and the student loan problem would disappear. Nobody would mind paying for a course with a positive payback, nobody could blame anybody but themselves if they took anyother.
One problem is that recruitment is biased. If the best-paying jobs recruit only from Oxbridge or Russell Group or the HR manager's alma mater, then outcomes will be skewed (and any bias on, say, race or class grounds will be perpetuated).
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
Yes NI must end at retirement if you stop working I think... The article says older workers - so presumably before retirement?
Imagine Hammond is floating ideas to see what goes down badly.
Not quite, if you continue working past retirement age then you no longer pay employee NI, so it gives working pensioners an 11% pay increase (in addition to your state pension) compared with younger workers.
I noted this when my Dad was going through some of his business particulars xD
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
Yes NI must end at retirement if you stop working I think... The article says older workers - so presumably before retirement?
Imagine Hammond is floating ideas to see what goes down badly.
Not quite, if you continue working past retirement age then you no longer pay employee NI, so it gives working pensioners an 11% pay increase (in addition to your state pension) compared with younger workers.
Interesting. Doesn't seem particularly fair - perhaps that's what Hammond will go after.
DecrepitJohnL - but those outcomes are real enough, and you ought to know the PPE at the University of ... isn't going to pay, even if PPE at Oxford does.
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
Yes NI must end at retirement if you stop working I think... The article says older workers - so presumably before retirement?
Imagine Hammond is floating ideas to see what goes down badly.
Not quite, if you continue working past retirement age then you no longer pay employee NI, so it gives working pensioners an 11% pay increase (in addition to your state pension) compared with younger workers.
Why not charge pensioners earning above the tax threshold (£11-12k/y) full NI on their extra income? They use the NHS. It's a better idea than continuing this attack on the triple-locked state pension, which FFS only costs the UK 5% of GDP.
Charge millionaires full NI too on their marginal income. Not 2%.
But I fear politicians prefer gimmicks to solid, sensible reforms of a system full of loopholes and fiddles and too complicated for most people to understand. Osborne and Brown did.
How about a public sector worker who only gets small rises, and has to be regraded to actually get significantly more. Unless they get regraded, which isn't automatic, particulsrly in small units, or move, when they get older their take home will go down.
I suspect this will antagonise the elderly and not assuage the youthful.
As Nick P (iirc) said the other day - younger people aren't listening to Tories. Just totally not interested in anything they have to say.
It will have to be a massive splash to make a difference to that I think.
The appeal of Labour under Corbyn and McDonnell suggests they can be bought though....
I suspect the young were just as motivated by Hard Brexit/end of FOM/focus on immigration as they were by a tuition fees policy which would only benefit a minority of 18-24 year olds.
I agree. The Tories will never be able to make a broad appeal to young people whilst the millstone of Brexit is round their necks. And it will certainly still be there at the next election.
Not, the youngest of the young.
However, 38% of 25-34 year olds supported Brexit, as did 48% of 35-44 year olds. And once people turned 42, they were more likely than not to support Brexit.
The problem with reading too much into these statistics is that as the weeks go by, 'supporting Brexit' is becoming less and less of a theoretical proposition. The country is losing its Brexit innocence.
Yet the numbers haven’t budged.
Didn't we have some stats the other day which showed that they were starting to?
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
Yes NI must end at retirement if you stop working I think... The article says older workers - so presumably before retirement?
Imagine Hammond is floating ideas to see what goes down badly.
Not quite, if you continue working past retirement age then you no longer pay employee NI, so it gives working pensioners an 11% pay increase (in addition to your state pension) compared with younger workers.
Why not charge pensioners earning above the tax threshold (£11-12k/y) full NI on their extra income? They use the NHS. It's a better idea than continuing this attack on the triple-locked state pension, which FFS only costs the UK 5% of GDP.
Charge millionaires full NI too on their marginal income. Not 2%.
But I fear politicians prefer gimmicks to solid, sensible reforms of a system full of loopholes and fiddles and too complicated for most people to understand. Osborne and Brown did.
Need to charge NI on unearned (investment income) too, to level the playing field fully. (...waits for the squeals!)
The absurd position is to complain about a lack of progress while at the same time your MEPs vote against the negotiations continuing. I wonder if they’ll vote against the UK when the final deal is up for a vote.
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
Yes NI must end at retirement if you stop working I think... The article says older workers - so presumably before retirement?
Imagine Hammond is floating ideas to see what goes down badly.
Not quite, if you continue working past retirement age then you no longer pay employee NI, so it gives working pensioners an 11% pay increase (in addition to your state pension) compared with younger workers.
Why not charge pensioners earning above the tax threshold (£11-12k/y) full NI on their extra income? They use the NHS. It's a better idea than continuing this attack on the triple-locked state pension, which FFS only costs the UK 5% of GDP.
Charge millionaires full NI too on their marginal income. Not 2%.
But I fear politicians prefer gimmicks to solid, sensible reforms of a system full of loopholes and fiddles and too complicated for most people to understand. Osborne and Brown did.
Need to charge NI on unearned (investment income) too, to level the playing field fully. (...waits for the squeals!)
It would be illogical from a theory standpoint, as NI is by defination only associated with employment. Thats one reason why when GO put a charge on dividends, it wasn't NI.
If the government published the payback time by university and department for university education - figures they have in the Student Loan Company - only the courses worth attending would survive and the student loan problem would disappear. Nobody would mind paying for a course with a positive payback, nobody could blame anybody but themselves if they took anyother.
One problem is that recruitment is biased. If the best-paying jobs recruit only from Oxbridge or Russell Group or the HR manager's alma mater, then outcomes will be skewed (and any bias on, say, race or class grounds will be perpetuated).
I think the idea is to stop kids paying for crap courses at crap universities. You'll never kill Oxbridge/ Russell Group bias unless you kill the superior quality of what they are perceived to offer.
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
Yes NI must end at retirement if you stop working I think... The article says older workers - so presumably before retirement?
Imagine Hammond is floating ideas to see what goes down badly.
Not quite, if you continue working past retirement age then you no longer pay employee NI, so it gives working pensioners an 11% pay increase (in addition to your state pension) compared with younger workers.
Why not charge pensioners earning above the tax threshold (£11-12k/y) full NI on their extra income? They use the NHS. It's a better idea than continuing this attack on the triple-locked state pension, which FFS only costs the UK 5% of GDP.
Charge millionaires full NI too on their marginal income. Not 2%.
But I fear politicians prefer gimmicks to solid, sensible reforms of a system full of loopholes and fiddles and too complicated for most people to understand. Osborne and Brown did.
Well NI doesn't realy have anything to do with the NHS at all, it's just general taxation, but is linked in with pension entitlment.
Really what shoudl happen is NI (employee) should be scrapped and just rolled into income tax.
Question. Do people use their real signatures on documents circulating in the public domain, only to find all their private documents have been signed over to a stranger?
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
Yes NI must end at retirement if you stop working I think... The article says older workers - so presumably before retirement?
Imagine Hammond is floating ideas to see what goes down badly.
Not quite, if you continue working past retirement age then you no longer pay employee NI, so it gives working pensioners an 11% pay increase (in addition to your state pension) compared with younger workers.
Why not charge pensioners earning above the tax threshold (£11-12k/y) full NI on their extra income? They use the NHS. It's a better idea than continuing this attack on the triple-locked state pension, which FFS only costs the UK 5% of GDP.
Charge millionaires full NI too on their marginal income. Not 2%.
But I fear politicians prefer gimmicks to solid, sensible reforms of a system full of loopholes and fiddles and too complicated for most people to understand. Osborne and Brown did.
Well NI doesn't realy have anything to do with the NHS at all, it's just general taxation, but is linked in with pension entitlment.
Really what shoudl happen is NI (employee) should be scrapped and just rolled into income tax.
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
Yes NI must end at retirement if you stop working I think... The article says older workers - so presumably before retirement?
Imagine Hammond is floating ideas to see what goes down badly.
Not quite, if you continue working past retirement age then you no longer pay employee NI, so it gives working pensioners an 11% pay increase (in addition to your state pension) compared with younger workers.
Interesting. Doesn't seem particularly fair - perhaps that's what Hammond will go after.
You will probably have maxed your pension contributions before then so paying NI will not bring any benefit and so will be seen by some as unfair - maybe a distinct rate could be introduced. This is a can of worms precisely because short termist politicians have fudged NI and Tax and not told the financial facts of life straight to the electorate. The least painful way forward is a drive for economic growth across all areas of government and the sacrificing of green shibboleths, middle-class nimbyism, foreign aid pretensions, expensive and damaging BS equality and identity politics initiatives and other parasitic practices.
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
Yes NI must end at retirement if you stop working I think... The article says older workers - so presumably before retirement?
Imagine Hammond is floating ideas to see what goes down badly.
Not quite, if you continue working past retirement age then you no longer pay employee NI, so it gives working pensioners an 11% pay increase (in addition to your state pension) compared with younger workers.
Why not charge pensioners earning above the tax threshold (£11-12k/y) full NI on their extra income? They use the NHS. It's a better idea than continuing this attack on the triple-locked state pension, which FFS only costs the UK 5% of GDP.
Charge millionaires full NI too on their marginal income. Not 2%.
But I fear politicians prefer gimmicks to solid, sensible reforms of a system full of loopholes and fiddles and too complicated for most people to understand. Osborne and Brown did.
Well NI doesn't realy have anything to do with the NHS at all, it's just general taxation, but is linked in with pension entitlment.
Really what shoudl happen is NI (employee) should be scrapped and just rolled into income tax.
Then NI would really be a jobs tax!
Well Employee NI, not Employer NI. The two are different.
Differential NI or income tax for young and older people is an idea I haven't heard before.
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person? Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
How will that fit with the laws on age discrimination?
Awkwardly I imagine in practice. Already some older workers feel/are discriminated against...
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
Doesn't NI end at retirement age, also? Free TV licences. Young Persons Railcard. There are plenty of examples of different charges for different age groups.
Yes NI must end at retirement if you stop working I think... The article says older workers - so presumably before retirement?
Imagine Hammond is floating ideas to see what goes down badly.
Not quite, if you continue working past retirement age then you no longer pay employee NI, so it gives working pensioners an 11% pay increase (in addition to your state pension) compared with younger workers.
Why not charge pensioners earning above the tax threshold (£11-12k/y) full NI on their extra income? They use the NHS. It's a better idea than continuing this attack on the triple-locked state pension, which FFS only costs the UK 5% of GDP.
Charge millionaires full NI too on their marginal income. Not 2%.
But I fear politicians prefer gimmicks to solid, sensible reforms of a system full of loopholes and fiddles and too complicated for most people to understand. Osborne and Brown did.
Well NI doesn't realy have anything to do with the NHS at all, it's just general taxation, but is linked in with pension entitlment.
Really what shoudl happen is NI (employee) should be scrapped and just rolled into income tax.
Then NI would really be a jobs tax!
Well Employee NI, not Employer NI. The two are different.
If you scrap employee NI all you have left is employer NI
Comments
It will have to be a massive splash to make a difference to that I think.
Given the current state of public finances, all of us can expect to be taxed to the cuttlebone.
Cut that back would only harm those on big earnings - but would it raise much ?
Phil wondering if anyone has any decent ideas, which weren't in the Labour manifesto.
Anybody?
But calamari is rather dry and chewy in my experience
If they were, the Exchequer might get a one-off windfall, and then all the prime London land that was sold off would end up in the hands of largely ex-pat wealthy Russians, Emiratis and Chinese, some of whom are ethically questionable, and have quite a different agenda.
The only thing is, 100% of the younger generation are children of the older generation, and v.v. for a substantial proportion of the older generation, and so perhaps Hammond will get away with it if it looks more like a boost to the young, than a raid on the old.
FPT Inheritance Tax, aristocrats have Roy Jenkins to thank for exempting country houses and their works of art from the tax, in return for being open to the public at various times of the year.
It would be better, in my view, to make all property subject to IHT, ending the exemptions for woodlands, businesses, agricultural land, country houses, while reducing the rate to, say, 20%.
Mr. Mark, what's the title?
Will it make it more advantageous to hire a younger person rather than an older person?
Or could it push older people into retirement earlier?
I suspect the market's there for it, what with Rush, Senna and Ferrari's resurgence this year (even though they were horrendously unlucky with the spark plug).
I hear young people like to dance to popular music at venues known as discotheques and that they have mobile telephones on which it is possible to see Internet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AivFzvgQPYE
wednesday could be interesting...
Leaving the pensioners alone.
Squids, leeks... it's been quite an afternoon.
That's why they are (entirely sensibly) exempt.
If you plot those into a 2x2 matrix, the current situation varies wildly for the same income.
Because that's how I want to be seen.
But legally - there is a different minimum wage for different ages, so I'd have thought differential taxation is okay via legislation....
The article says older workers - so presumably before retirement?
Imagine Hammond is floating ideas to see what goes down badly.
However, 38% of 25-34 year olds supported Brexit, as did 48% of 35-44 year olds. And once people turned 42, they were more likely than not to support Brexit.
Here's the link to the trailer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3e5hGgeNoQ
EDIT: Peter Collins looks incredibly like my father in the pictures of him from the late fifties.... Really quite spooky.
One problem is that recruitment is biased. If the best-paying jobs recruit only from Oxbridge or Russell Group or the HR manager's alma mater, then outcomes will be skewed (and any bias on, say, race or class grounds will be perpetuated).
Would not hit those on basic old age pension.
Charge millionaires full NI too on their marginal income. Not 2%.
But I fear politicians prefer gimmicks to solid, sensible reforms of a system full of loopholes and fiddles and too complicated for most people to understand. Osborne and Brown did.
Bucket of cold sick comes to mind.
https://twitter.com/ashcowburn/status/919940252801912832
The welsh ones?
Really what shoudl happen is NI (employee) should be scrapped and just rolled into income tax.