There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
Surely leaving won't turn is into a nation of bigots, we would have to have been one all along, in your view, in order for the vote to succeed. That being the case, the change will only be political and economic, not in national character.
Also implying we are not run by hapless cretins at the moment.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
Posts of this nature make it very difficult to take seriously anything Alastair Meeks says about Brexit.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
Funny. I consider that most of those epithets apply very well to you. Certainly bigoted and cretinous suit you very well. So I am not sure that we should be that concerned with your particular brand of nihilism.
rcs and Dr Fox are hot on this subject, so I need their help:
Am I correct that if there is no deal with the EU [ meaning no FTA ], there will have to be a customs border between the two parts of Ireland ?
Since, under the WTO rules, we cannot have one set of rules with Ireland [ a EU country ] and , another, say, with Belgium or France [ also, EU countries ].
It then follows that the only way we could avoid having a customs border in Ireland is by having a FTA with the EU or Northern Ireland remaining within the customs union, like Norway. The customs "border" then effectively becomes the Irish Sea.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
The answer to the Tories problems in two words Ruth Davidson.
She is good on TV, but she's not an MP . She has never run anything. Like Ant and Dec.
To be clear I don't want Davidson as PM. But, I never understood this argument that someone succeeding to the Premiership from within the governing party MUST have had ministerial experience beforehand. When Tony Blair became PM in 97 he had not had ministerial experience. Labour had not even been in Government since before he became an MP. When Cameron became PM in 2010 he had not had ministerial experience.
So why is it that, apparently uniquely, not having had ministerial experience when standing for PM from within the governing party is meant to exclude anyone?
It is a slightly peverse assumption, I agree.
In Davidsons case, the basis of her popularity is that she is an insurgent and an underdog. She hasn't delivered anything, other than electoral success for the conservatives in Scotland. She could crash and burn. The tories are right to be sceptical.
Well of course not, you weren't a fan of hers even when the hagiographers for her were almost as over the top as the people who faint with joy at the sight of Jeremy Corbyn.
London's Royal Parks accused of 'callous slaughter' by animal rights activists after culling more than 10,000 animals[....]
More than 8,400 mammals and 3,240 birds have been exterminated by the Royal Parks authority since January 2013, including 1,734 deer, 2,657 rabbits and 1,221 crows.
Rangers at the organisation’s eight open spaces, which include Hyde Park and Richmond Park, have also killed 3,679 squirrels, 330 foxes, 268 geese and 382 magpies.
London's Royal Parks accused of 'callous slaughter' by animal rights activists after culling more than 10,000 animals[....]
More than 8,400 mammals and 3,240 birds have been exterminated by the Royal Parks authority since January 2013, including 1,734 deer, 2,657 rabbits and 1,221 crows.
Rangers at the organisation’s eight open spaces, which include Hyde Park and Richmond Park, have also killed 3,679 squirrels, 330 foxes, 268 geese and 382 magpies.
I have to admit, when I think 'animal rights activists' I think of things like PETA and eco-terrorists, so I always have to take a moment and try to divorce myself from that so I can consider them fairly.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
Posts of this nature make it very difficult to take seriously anything Alastair Meeks says about Brexit.
Voting, polling Blogging, trolling And now I'm all alone In Brexit Land My only home
London's Royal Parks accused of 'callous slaughter' by animal rights activists after culling more than 10,000 animals[....]
More than 8,400 mammals and 3,240 birds have been exterminated by the Royal Parks authority since January 2013, including 1,734 deer, 2,657 rabbits and 1,221 crows.
Rangers at the organisation’s eight open spaces, which include Hyde Park and Richmond Park, have also killed 3,679 squirrels, 330 foxes, 268 geese and 382 magpies.
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
That comes as a relief. I thought it would turn us into a country like the US in the Running Man.
Well of course not, you weren't a fan of hers even when the hagiographers for her were almost as over the top as the people who faint with joy at the sight of Jeremy Corbyn.
I saw some Corbynistas a few weeks ago, they in no way resembled a cult.
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
London's Royal Parks accused of 'callous slaughter' by animal rights activists after culling more than 10,000 animals[....]
More than 8,400 mammals and 3,240 birds have been exterminated by the Royal Parks authority since January 2013, including 1,734 deer, 2,657 rabbits and 1,221 crows.
Rangers at the organisation’s eight open spaces, which include Hyde Park and Richmond Park, have also killed 3,679 squirrels, 330 foxes, 268 geese and 382 magpies.
Well of course not, you weren't a fan of hers even when the hagiographers for her were almost as over the top as the people who faint with joy at the sight of Jeremy Corbyn.
I saw some Corbynistas a few weeks ago, they in no way resembled a cult.
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
I remember your analysis that I was throwing my money away on Con gaining Gordon and Moray under Ruth Davidson's leadership.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
That comes as a relief. I thought it would turn us into a country like the US in the Running Man.
I'd have thought that would come as a disappointment.
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
I remember your analysis that I was throwing my money away on Con gaining Gordon and Moray under Ruth Davidson's leadership.
And their scoffing at any prospect of Tory gains north of the border... titters
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
That last one is not really a problem - there are plenty of examples of people later proven not up to the job who got it, and the level of experience, or not, beforehand doesn't seem good at indicating any actual worth in the role.
But frankly Davidson is better where she is. Either it was a flash in the pan and the Tories will go backwards in the next Scottish Parliament elections, or she should focus on that arena to cement the improvement for SCON that has taken place, she is plenty young enough to have a run for a Westminster seat later, if she then wants.
The by-election point is certainly valid too, and in any case with all the SCON MPs up there bar Mundell being brand new surely not likely anyone would stand aside, and given the vast shifts in voting patterns over the last two GEs up there, it'd still be a risk.
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
I remember your analysis that I was throwing my money away on Con gaining Gordon and Moray under Ruth Davidson's leadership.
And their scoffing at any prospect of Tory gains north of the border... titters
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
I'm not going over the top. The debasement of political debate here is a signifier of how British political debate is degrading.
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
When was the last time the Tories elected or chose a Scot as their leader unless he [ since there were no female Scottish leader ] came from the upper classes ? What will be the reaction of coffee mornings in Chipping Sodbury ?
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
That comes as a relief. I thought it would turn us into a country like the US in the Running Man.
I'd have thought that would come as a disappointment.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
I'm not going over the top. The debasement of political debate here is a signifier of how British political debate is degrading.
Saying Britain will turn into an ugly insular bigoted nation is going over the top. HMG isn't banging on about global britain for no reason.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
I'm not going over the top. The debasement of political debate here is a signifier of how British political debate is degrading.
Saying Britain will turn into an ugly insular bigoted nation is going over the top. HMG isn't banging on about global britain for no reason.
HMG is indeed banging on about global Britain for no reason. It hasn't the slightest idea what it means.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
I'm not going over the top. The debasement of political debate here is a signifier of how British political debate is degrading.
Saying Britain will turn into an ugly insular bigoted nation is going over the top. HMG isn't banging on about global britain for no reason.
Inter alia, HMG also talked 'citizens of nowhere', they have sent out countless unwarranted deportation letters, they have talked about not sharing intelligence with our European partners, which puts us all at risk.
You can understand why others view us as a ugly, insular, and bigoted nation.
If there's no deal wouldn't it be covered by the money we would have sent to Brussels?
This is insane.
So they are spending billions on customs technology they probably wont ever need, to try and improve our negotiating position? The mind boggles.
Unless we are in a Customs Union we are going to need customs.
Get building.
Not if we do away with import duties.
With all countries ?
Only Ireland and Catalonia.
I am sure there is a joke there, somewhere. You are almost reaching Sunil levels now.
The serious answer is no, you cannot. Under the WTO rules, you cannot "prefer" any country over another unless there is a trade agreement. Ireland, of course, means the EU.
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
When was the last time the Tories elected or chose a Scot as their leader unless he [ since there were no female Scottish leader ] came from the upper classes ? What will be the reaction of coffee mornings in Chipping Sodbury ?
What else would you expect from such a piece of bile?
She is really a b1tch.
And the level of mysogynism on the left continues apace. I suppose we ought to be relieved she's not Jewish as well.
You must know that Katie Hopkins if full of hated and bile. Sure there are some nasty, nasty people on the left too but it doesn't lessen Hopkins' vileness.
Never been a fan myself but I do kick back when it spills into gratuitous name-calling and mysogyny. Generally, with more than 8 O Levels you can be more classy - of course you omit to mention the grades....
Haha I got 4As, 3 Bs and a C.
But what is mysogynist about calling out Katie Hopkins for the nasty piece of work she is?!? Yes I know she happens to be female but I am just as happy to call out Hitler and Stalin as evil dictators.
It was your lefty mate Surbiton at 8.22pm 'She is really a b1tch.'. As I said it is endemic on the left. But my point is that once the name calling starts it quickly descends into the gutter. Just look at the anti-semitism in the Labour party. If you disagree with Ms Hopkins it is perfectly reasonable to counter her arguments or even laugh at her stupidity but the name-calling is counter-productive.
I'm not sure on another point that you want to go down the road of trying to remove citizenship rights from people over tax avoidance measures which are themselves not illegal. I doubt if it is even possible to do it. Of course the level of disregard for human rights practised by extreme left-wing governments is quite well-documented. At what point will membership of the Conservative party become grounds for similar measures?
Of course you are right, removing "citizenship rights from people over tax avoidance measures which are themselves not illegal" would be an outrageous infringement of human rights*. But making it illegal for a UK citizen to avoid paying UK taxes simply because they resided outside the UK would change that. I cannot see any human rights objection to that; after all there is no human rights argument that I shouldn't pay UK taxes as a UK resident.
(*Not that the current government seems very much enamoured by protecting human rughts anyway.)
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
I'm not going over the top. The debasement of political debate here is a signifier of how British political debate is degrading.
Saying Britain will turn into an ugly insular bigoted nation is going over the top. HMG isn't banging on about global britain for no reason.
HMG is indeed banging on about global Britain for no reason. It hasn't the slightest idea what it means.
We will do a FTA with the US, remember ! Bombardier workers will be happy. What about Boeing ?
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I
The
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
I'm not going over the top. The debasement of political debate here is a signifier of how British political debate is degrading.
Britain is now an ugly insular bigoted nation. Discuss.
A debate so well crafted it would put Cicero to shame. (Though again I note your logic would mean we already were such a nation, hence the vote, not because of it).
For some reason, at this talk of the level of political debate degrading, something I as much as anyone have lamented on occasion, I think of a line from Pride and Prejudice (or at least the BBC adaptation, I have not read the book), when Mr Darcy excuses some of his cold manners by raising his lacking the talent some have for conversing easily with strangers, with Elizabeth Bennett responding that she does not play the piano so well as she should like, but that she always supposed that to be her own fault, because she did not take the time to practice.
Perhaps all of us who claim to be saddened by the state of british political discourse could try to raise it instead of merely lamenting the current state of it.
At the very least even if the attempt fails, we can then set new heights of self righteousness - it always gives me a satisfying warm feeling.
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
When was the last time the Tories elected or chose a Scot as their leader unless he [ since there were no female Scottish leader ] came from the upper classes ? What will be the reaction of coffee mornings in Chipping Sodbury ?
If there's no deal wouldn't it be covered by the money we would have sent to Brussels?
This is insane.
So they are spending billions on customs technology they probably wont ever need, to try and improve our negotiating position? The mind boggles.
Unless we are in a Customs Union we are going to need customs.
Get building.
Not if we do away with import duties.
With all countries ?
Only Ireland and Catalonia.
I am sure there is a joke there, somewhere. You are almost reaching Sunil levels now.
The serious answer is no, you cannot. Under the WTO rules, you cannot "prefer" any country over another unless there is a trade agreement. Ireland, of course, means the EU.
Well I had hoped it was funny, but they cannot all be winners. No, I was not serious.
The answer to the Tories problems in two words Ruth Davidson.
She is good on TV, but she's not an MP . She has never run anything. Like Ant and Dec.
To be clear I don't want Davidson as PM. But, I never understood this argument that someone succeeding to the Premiership from within the governing party MUST have had ministerial experience beforehand. When Tony Blair became PM in 97 he had not had ministerial experience. Labour had not even been in Government since before he became an MP. When Cameron became PM in 2010 he had not had ministerial experience.
So why is it that, apparently uniquely, not having had ministerial experience when standing for PM from within the governing party is meant to exclude anyone?
I guess because being LOTO for a number of years, like Blair and Cameron, is in itself a form of extended job interview.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
I'm not going over the top. The debasement of political debate here is a signifier of how British political debate is degrading.
Saying Britain will turn into an ugly insular bigoted nation is going over the top. HMG isn't banging on about global britain for no reason.
Inter alia, HMG also talked 'citizens of nowhere', they have sent out countless unwarranted deportation letters, they have talked about not sharing intelligence with our European partners, which puts us all at risk.
You can understand why others view us as a ugly, insular, and bigoted nation.
If one sets the bar that low, there's probably not a nation that can't be viewed that way.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I
The
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
I'm not going over the top. The debasement of political debate here is a signifier of how British political debate is degrading.
Britain is now an ugly insular bigoted nation. Discuss.
A debate so well crafted it would put Cicero to shame. (Though again I note your logic would mean we already were such a nation, hence the vote, not because of it).
For some reason, at this talk of the level of political debate degrading, something I as much as anyone have lamented on occasion, I think of a line from Pride and Prejudice (or at least the BBC adaptation, I have not read the book), when Mr Darcy excuses some of his cold manners by raising his lacking the talent some have for conversing easily with strangers, with Elizabeth Bennett responding that she does not play the piano so well as she should like, but that she always supposed that to be her own fault, because she did not take the time to practice.
Perhaps all of us who claim to be saddened by the state of british political discourse could try to raise it instead of merely lamenting the current state of it.
At the very least even if the attempt fails, we can then set new heights of self righteousness - it always gives me a satisfying warm feeling.
It's going to get worse before it gets better. Probably a lot worse.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
I'm not going over the top. The debasement of political debate here is a signifier of how British political debate is degrading.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
I'm not going over the top. The debasement of political debate here is a signifier of how British political debate is degrading.
Saying Britain will turn into an ugly insular bigoted nation is going over the top. HMG isn't banging on about global britain for no reason.
Inter alia, HMG also talked 'citizens of nowhere', they have sent out countless unwarranted deportation letters, they have talked about not sharing intelligence with our European partners, which puts us all at risk.
You can understand why others view us as a ugly, insular, and bigoted nation.
Countless? I thought it was two or three? As for playing hardball, that doesn't make us ugly, insular, and bigoted.
The answer to the Tories problems in two words Ruth Davidson.
She is good on TV, but she's not an MP . She has never run anything. Like Ant and Dec.
To be clear I don't want Davidson as PM. But, I never understood this argument that someone succeeding to the Premiership from within the governing party MUST have had ministerial experience beforehand. When Tony Blair became PM in 97 he had not had ministerial experience. Labour had not even been in Government since before he became an MP. When Cameron became PM in 2010 he had not had ministerial experience.
So why is it that, apparently uniquely, not having had ministerial experience when standing for PM from within the governing party is meant to exclude anyone?
I guess because being LOTO for a number of years, like Blair and Cameron, is in itself a form of job interview.
But one that is of no guarantee in ensuring only those who will be good as PM pass the test, since the test is only about getting elected (or being less crap than your opponent). I'm also not clamouring for Davidson, in fact the 'experience' argument for leaders works on me pretty well, but it is a little arbitrary.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
I'm not going over the top. The debasement of political debate here is a signifier of how British political debate is degrading.
Considering the posting you replied to with your idiocy was a reasoned answer given to a reasonable question I would suggest that the only person currently debasing political debate on here this evening is you.
If there's no deal wouldn't it be covered by the money we would have sent to Brussels?
This is insane.
So they are spending billions on customs technology they probably wont ever need, to try and improve our negotiating position? The mind boggles.
Unless we are in a Customs Union we are going to need customs.
Get building.
Not if we do away with import duties.
With all countries ?
Only Ireland and Catalonia.
I am sure there is a joke there, somewhere. You are almost reaching Sunil levels now.
The serious answer is no, you cannot. Under the WTO rules, you cannot "prefer" any country over another unless there is a trade agreement. Ireland, of course, means the EU.
We don't want a border, they don't want a border, so why not work out a FTA?
If only they didn't continue with their rather absurd demand that we have to "solve" the border issue before moving onto our future relationship (the nature of which will strongly impact the border issue).
rcs and Dr Fox are hot on this subject, so I need their help:
Am I correct that if there is no deal with the EU [ meaning no FTA ], there will have to be a customs border between the two parts of Ireland ?
Since, under the WTO rules, we cannot have one set of rules with Ireland [ a EU country ] and , another, say, with Belgium or France [ also, EU countries ].
It then follows that the only way we could avoid having a customs border in Ireland is by having a FTA with the EU or Northern Ireland remaining within the customs union, like Norway. The customs "border" then effectively becomes the Irish Sea.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I don't know of one.
I can see nothing that the EU does for us that makes things better and much that makes things worse. The economic hit of leaving is described in terms of reduction in rates of growth which for me is acceptable (and I am neither rich nor able to retire/move out of the country).
I have never heard a reasonable, compelling argument for why we should remain in the EU even from those whose views I have a good deal of time for such as (on here) SouthamObserver or Nick Palmer.
The biggest negative consequence of leaving the EU that I can see is that it will swing the balance of the bloc even further in favour of the state interventionist/socialist model and away from the free market model. I am sorry for those countries that do not wish that but then of course they have the choice to take our path if they choose (not that I expect any of them to do so)
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
I'm not going over the top. The debasement of political debate here is a signifier of how British political debate is degrading.
Considering the posting you replied to with your idiocy was a reasoned answer given to a reasonable question I would suggest that the only person currently debasing political debate on here this evening is you.
You've made two personal attacks on me now this evening. I'll leave others to judge who is doing the debasing.
There's a great irony that remaining in the EU/single market is a strong buttress against the more loony policies of Corbyn.
That has always been the very worst argument for Remaining.
What's the best argument for Remaining, in your view?
Genuinely? I
The
Leaving will turn Britain into an ugly insular bigoted nation run by hapless cretins. But it won't need to deal directly with other EU countries so I guess you see that as a sacrifice worth making.
I am sorry you feel the need to use 'silly' language like the above
You are much better than that
You don't need to look any further than pb. Horizons are narrowing, tolerance is shrinking.
Yes - it is getting very heated but going over the top does not help to win people round
I'm not going over the top. The debasement of political debate here is a signifier of how British political debate is degrading.
Britain is now an ugly insular bigoted nation. Discuss.
A debate so well crafted it would put Cicero to shame. (Though again I note your logic would mean we already were such a nation, hence the vote, not because of it).
For some reason, at this talk of the level of political debate degrading, something I as much as anyone have lamented on occasion, I think of a line from Pride and Prejudice (or at least the BBC adaptation, I have not read the book), when Mr Darcy excuses some of his cold manners by raising his lacking the talent some have for conversing easily with strangers, with Elizabeth Bennett responding that she does not play the piano so well as she should like, but that she always supposed that to be her own fault, because she did not take the time to practice.
Perhaps all of us who claim to be saddened by the state of british political discourse could try to raise it instead of merely lamenting the current state of it.
At the very least even if the attempt fails, we can then set new heights of self righteousness - it always gives me a satisfying warm feeling.
It's going to get worse before it gets better. Probably a lot worse.
Enjoy that satisfying warm feeling.
I find it very hard to believe, given your writings, that you are not sharing that feeling with me, but I will while I can, it is always punctured soon enough. I can only self delude for so long.
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
When was the last time the Tories elected or chose a Scot as their leader unless he [ since there were no female Scottish leader ] came from the upper classes ? What will be the reaction of coffee mornings in Chipping Sodbury ?
Probably Ramsey MacDonald, who while technically National Labour, headed a government made up predominantly of Conservative MPs.
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
When was the last time the Tories elected or chose a Scot as their leader unless he [ since there were no female Scottish leader ] came from the upper classes ? What will be the reaction of coffee mornings in Chipping Sodbury ?
Probably Ramsey MacDonald, who while technically National Labour, headed a government made up predominantly of Conservative MPs.
Theresa May is under pressure to publish secret legal advice that is believed to state that parliament could still stop Brexit before the end of March 2019 if MPs judge that a change of mind is in the national interest. The move comes as concern grows that exit talks with Brussels are heading for disaster.
Disquiet has been growing among pro-remain MPs, and within the legal profession and business community, about what is becoming known as the government’s “kamikaze” approach. Ministers insist that stopping Brexit is not an option, as the British people made their decision in last year’s referendum, and the article 50 process is now under way, however damaging the consequences might turn out to be when negotiations are concluded.
Worry about lack of flexibility has intensified following the chaotic Conservative party conference in Manchester, and May’s ill-fated speech. European leaders now doubt whether she has the political authority to move negotiations forward towards a satisfactory deal.
The answer to the Tories problems in two words Ruth Davidson.
She is good on TV, but she's not an MP . She has never run anything. Like Ant and Dec.
To be clear I don't want Davidson as PM. But, I never understood this argument that someone succeeding to the Premiership from within the governing party MUST have had ministerial experience beforehand. When Tony Blair became PM in 97 he had not had ministerial experience. Labour had not even been in Government since before he became an MP. When Cameron became PM in 2010 he had not had ministerial experience.
So why is it that, apparently uniquely, not having had ministerial experience when standing for PM from within the governing party is meant to exclude anyone?
I guess because being LOTO for a number of years, like Blair and Cameron, is in itself a form of job interview.
But one that is of no guarantee in ensuring only those who will be good as PM pass the test, since the test is only about getting elected (or being less crap than your opponent). I'm also not clamouring for Davidson, in fact the 'experience' argument for leaders works on me pretty well, but it is a little arbitrary.
You are right of course. However. I am not convinced that the Tories have a magic wand called Ruth Davidson. I am probably alone on here in that, being of the Left, I actually think May is probably as good as the Conservatives have. I believe their problems go much deeper than who is the leader. What is the purpose is a better question to ask.
Theresa May is under pressure to publish secret legal advice that is believed to state that parliament could still stop Brexit before the end of March 2019 if MPs judge that a change of mind is in the national interest. The move comes as concern grows that exit talks with Brussels are heading for disaster.
Disquiet has been growing among pro-remain MPs, and within the legal profession and business community, about what is becoming known as the government’s “kamikaze” approach. Ministers insist that stopping Brexit is not an option, as the British people made their decision in last year’s referendum, and the article 50 process is now under way, however damaging the consequences might turn out to be when negotiations are concluded.
Worry about lack of flexibility has intensified following the chaotic Conservative party conference in Manchester, and May’s ill-fated speech. European leaders now doubt whether she has the political authority to move negotiations forward towards a satisfactory deal.
Well folks - the old battery is going and time to say good night
I am shortly embarking on a Mediterranean cruise and while I have complimentary time on line it is not always easy to connect
I would suggest that things will continue to be frazzled for quite a while but if we could all be a bit more thoughtful in our comments and make good arguments we would all be better for it
Do not think I have stopped contributing as I will lurk a bit but will be back late October.
Who knows what will have happened by then and assuming the Catalan's let me fly out of Barcelona to Heathrow
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
When was the last time the Tories elected or chose a Scot as their leader unless he [ since there were no female Scottish leader ] came from the upper classes ? What will be the reaction of coffee mornings in Chipping Sodbury ?
Probably Ramsey MacDonald, who while technically National Labour, headed a government made up predominantly of Conservative MPs.
You've made two personal attacks on me now this evening. I'll leave others to judge who is doing the debasing.
Given that it is you who made a stupid and ignorant comment in reply to a reasonable discussion you were not even involved with I would suggest that your memory is as flawed as your intelligence.
Disappear back under your rock and leave the discussions to those who actually want to discuss not just insult.
rcs and Dr Fox are hot on this subject, so I need their help:
Am I correct that if there is no deal with the EU [ meaning no FTA ], there will have to be a customs border between the two parts of Ireland ?
Since, under the WTO rules, we cannot have one set of rules with Ireland [ a EU country ] and , another, say, with Belgium or France [ also, EU countries ].
It then follows that the only way we could avoid having a customs border in Ireland is by having a FTA with the EU or Northern Ireland remaining within the customs union, like Norway. The customs "border" then effectively becomes the Irish Sea.
We have spot check on all our borders. No one monitors how frequent they are
Theresa May is under pressure to publish secret legal advice that is believed to state that parliament could still stop Brexit before the end of March 2019 if MPs judge that a change of mind is in the national interest. The move comes as concern grows that exit talks with Brussels are heading for disaster.
Disquiet has been growing among pro-remain MPs, and within the legal profession and business community, about what is becoming known as the government’s “kamikaze” approach. Ministers insist that stopping Brexit is not an option, as the British people made their decision in last year’s referendum, and the article 50 process is now under way, however damaging the consequences might turn out to be when negotiations are concluded.
Worry about lack of flexibility has intensified following the chaotic Conservative party conference in Manchester, and May’s ill-fated speech. European leaders now doubt whether she has the political authority to move negotiations forward towards a satisfactory deal.
Well folks - the old battery is going and time to say good night
I am shortly embarking on a Mediterranean cruise and while I have complimentary time on line it is not always easy to connect
I would suggest that things will continue to be frazzled for quite a while but if we could all be a bit more thoughtful in our comments and make good arguments we would all be better for it
Do not think I have stopped contributing as I will lurk a bit but will be back late October.
Who knows what will have happened by then and assuming the Catalan's let me fly out of Barcelona to Heathrow
Well folks - the old battery is going and time to say good night
I am shortly embarking on a Mediterranean cruise and while I have complimentary time on line it is not always easy to connect
I would suggest that things will continue to be frazzled for quite a while but if we could all be a bit more thoughtful in our comments and make good arguments we would all be better for it
Do not think I have stopped contributing as I will lurk a bit but will be back late October.
Who knows what will have happened by then and assuming the Catalan's let me fly out of Barcelona to Heathrow
Good night
Have a good trip!
Thanks - looking forward to relaxing at sea again.
To be honest most UK politician's are all at sea at present !!!!
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
When was the last time the Tories elected or chose a Scot as their leader unless he [ since there were no female Scottish leader ] came from the upper classes ? What will be the reaction of coffee mornings in Chipping Sodbury ?
Andrew Bonar Law.
Wasn't he Canadian? Just had a business in Glasgow
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
When was the last time the Tories elected or chose a Scot as their leader unless he [ since there were no female Scottish leader ] came from the upper classes ? What will be the reaction of coffee mornings in Chipping Sodbury ?
Probably Ramsey MacDonald, who while technically National Labour, headed a government made up predominantly of Conservative MPs.
IDS was a Scot.
A satisfying use of the past tense.
Less of a Scot than Tony Blair though, Blair was a proper Scot, even the surname Blair couldn't be any more Scottish.
Theresa May is under pressure to publish secret legal advice that is believed to state that parliament could still stop Brexit before the end of March 2019 if MPs judge that a change of mind is in the national interest. The move comes as concern grows that exit talks with Brussels are heading for disaster.
Disquiet has been growing among pro-remain MPs, and within the legal profession and business community, about what is becoming known as the government’s “kamikaze” approach. Ministers insist that stopping Brexit is not an option, as the British people made their decision in last year’s referendum, and the article 50 process is now under way, however damaging the consequences might turn out to be when negotiations are concluded.
Worry about lack of flexibility has intensified following the chaotic Conservative party conference in Manchester, and May’s ill-fated speech. European leaders now doubt whether she has the political authority to move negotiations forward towards a satisfactory deal.
Apart from the LDs is any party's position to have another vote, in parliament or with the people, on reversing Brexit? I'm interested in the legal question - I presume the answer will be 'possibly' - but if, despite the nature of any progress, or not, it is not at least Labour's position, the advice hardly matters at this stage. Is it Labour's policy?
Also, why would European leaders be worried about not reaching a satisfactory deal? They do not need a deal, we do, we have been told many times, and that they would be happy with no deal if we do not do as they say.
The Sunday Times said it had asked May what her plans were for Johnson, who has professed loyalty to the British leader but has been accused by some of her allies of undermining her by putting forward his own vision for Britain’s exit from the EU.
“It has never been my style to hide from a challenge and I’m not going to start now,” it quoted May as replying, in what it called a signal that she was prepared to bring in new ministers to her cabinet and axe those who had caused her problems.
“I’m the PM, and part of my job is to make sure I always have the best people in my cabinet, to make the most of the wealth of talent available to me in the party.”
May’s Downing Street office declined to comment on the Sunday Times story late on Saturday, saying it had not yet seen the interview.
Theresa May is under pressure to publish secret legal advice that is believed to state that parliament could still stop Brexit before the end of March 2019 if MPs judge that a change of mind is in the national interest. The move comes as concern grows that exit talks with Brussels are heading for disaster.
Disquiet has been growing among pro-remain MPs, and within the legal profession and business community, about what is becoming known as the government’s “kamikaze” approach. Ministers insist that stopping Brexit is not an option, as the British people made their decision in last year’s referendum, and the article 50 process is now under way, however damaging the consequences might turn out to be when negotiations are concluded.
Worry about lack of flexibility has intensified following the chaotic Conservative party conference in Manchester, and May’s ill-fated speech. European leaders now doubt whether she has the political authority to move negotiations forward towards a satisfactory deal.
Apart from the LDs is any party's position to have another vote, in parliament or with the people, on reversing Brexit? I'm interested in the legal question - I presume the answer will be 'possibly' - but if, despite the nature of any progress, or not, it is not at least Labour's position, the advice hardly matters at this stage. Is it Labour's policy?
Also, why would European leaders be worried about not reaching a satisfactory deal? They do not need a deal, we do, we have been told many times, and that they would be happy with no deal if we do not do as they say.
Whilst I wouldn't do anything to stop Brexit, I suspect if we're facing a cliff edge/hard/WTO Brexit I suspect some MPs might wish to pause/stop Brexit.
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
When was the last time the Tories elected or chose a Scot as their leader unless he [ since there were no female Scottish leader ] came from the upper classes ? What will be the reaction of coffee mornings in Chipping Sodbury ?
Probably Ramsey MacDonald, who while technically National Labour, headed a government made up predominantly of Conservative MPs.
IDS was a Scot.
A satisfying use of the past tense.
Less of a Scot than Tony Blair though, Blair was a proper Scot, even the surname Blair couldn't be any more Scottish.
Theresa May is under pressure to publish secret legal advice that is believed to state that parliament could still stop Brexit before the end of March 2019 if MPs judge that a change of mind is in the national interest. The move comes as concern grows that exit talks with Brussels are heading for disaster.
Disquiet has been growing among pro-remain MPs, and within the legal profession and business community, about what is becoming known as the government’s “kamikaze” approach. Ministers insist that stopping Brexit is not an option, as the British people made their decision in last year’s referendum, and the article 50 process is now under way, however damaging the consequences might turn out to be when negotiations are concluded.
Worry about lack of flexibility has intensified following the chaotic Conservative party conference in Manchester, and May’s ill-fated speech. European leaders now doubt whether she has the political authority to move negotiations forward towards a satisfactory deal.
"A DExEU spokesperson said: “We made our position clear in the supreme court. As a matter of firm policy, our notification will not be withdrawn. The British people voted to leave the EU and we will deliver on their instruction. There can be no attempts to remain inside the EU and no attempt to rejoin it.” "
Clever statement. It avoids saying that our notification can be withdrawn.
I cannot say I like the idea of being racist and not even knowing it, but I suppose the general idea of subconscious biases to some extent is established.
Comments
Am I correct that if there is no deal with the EU [ meaning no FTA ], there will have to be a customs border between the two parts of Ireland ?
Since, under the WTO rules, we cannot have one set of rules with Ireland [ a EU country ] and , another, say, with Belgium or France [ also, EU countries ].
It then follows that the only way we could avoid having a customs border in Ireland is by having a FTA with the EU or Northern Ireland remaining within the customs union, like Norway. The customs "border" then effectively becomes the Irish Sea.
You are much better than that
In Davidsons case, the basis of her popularity is that she is an insurgent and an underdog. She hasn't delivered anything, other than electoral success for the conservatives in Scotland. She could crash and burn. The tories are right to be sceptical.
More than 8,400 mammals and 3,240 birds have been exterminated by the Royal Parks authority since January 2013, including 1,734 deer, 2,657 rabbits and 1,221 crows.
Rangers at the organisation’s eight open spaces, which include Hyde Park and Richmond Park, have also killed 3,679 squirrels, 330 foxes, 268 geese and 382 magpies.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4958116/Royal-Parks-cull-10-000-animals-including-rabbits.html
Blogging, trolling
And now I'm all alone
In Brexit Land
My only home
There is an obvious problem with the Davidson coup. There is no Tory seat in Scotland which could be considered safe in a by election save perhaps Mundells.
There is another problem. There is no evidence whatsoever that she is up to the job.
But frankly Davidson is better where she is. Either it was a flash in the pan and the Tories will go backwards in the next Scottish Parliament elections, or she should focus on that arena to cement the improvement for SCON that has taken place, she is plenty young enough to have a run for a Westminster seat later, if she then wants.
The by-election point is certainly valid too, and in any case with all the SCON MPs up there bar Mundell being brand new surely not likely anyone would stand aside, and given the vast shifts in voting patterns over the last two GEs up there, it'd still be a risk.
You can understand why others view us as a ugly, insular, and bigoted nation.
The serious answer is no, you cannot. Under the WTO rules, you cannot "prefer" any country over another unless there is a trade agreement. Ireland, of course, means the EU.
You can say that the vote to leave was wrong but not regret leaving (that's what the voters decided)
A debate so well crafted it would put Cicero to shame. (Though again I note your logic would mean we already were such a nation, hence the vote, not because of it).
For some reason, at this talk of the level of political debate degrading, something I as much as anyone have lamented on occasion, I think of a line from Pride and Prejudice (or at least the BBC adaptation, I have not read the book), when Mr Darcy excuses some of his cold manners by raising his lacking the talent some have for conversing easily with strangers, with Elizabeth Bennett responding that she does not play the piano so well as she should like, but that she always supposed that to be her own fault, because she did not take the time to practice.
Perhaps all of us who claim to be saddened by the state of british political discourse could try to raise it instead of merely lamenting the current state of it.
At the very least even if the attempt fails, we can then set new heights of self righteousness - it always gives me a satisfying warm feeling.
Enjoy that satisfying warm feeling.
If only they didn't continue with their rather absurd demand that we have to "solve" the border issue before moving onto our future relationship (the nature of which will strongly impact the border issue).
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/23/home-office-apologises-for-letters-threatening-to-deport-eu-nationals
Ryanair 'run like a communist regime', says pilot
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41384789
Disquiet has been growing among pro-remain MPs, and within the legal profession and business community, about what is becoming known as the government’s “kamikaze” approach. Ministers insist that stopping Brexit is not an option, as the British people made their decision in last year’s referendum, and the article 50 process is now under way, however damaging the consequences might turn out to be when negotiations are concluded.
Worry about lack of flexibility has intensified following the chaotic Conservative party conference in Manchester, and May’s ill-fated speech. European leaders now doubt whether she has the political authority to move negotiations forward towards a satisfactory deal.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/07/theresa-may-secret-advice-brexit-eu
What is the purpose is a better question to ask.
https://qz.com/984587/a-new-study-shows-that-every-european-country-has-negative-racial-bias-towards-black-people/
How very different from enlightened Europe (NOT)
And the markets - so far - have mostly gone along with the tory party antics.
For how long?
I am shortly embarking on a Mediterranean cruise and while I have complimentary time on line it is not always easy to connect
I would suggest that things will continue to be frazzled for quite a while but if we could all be a bit more thoughtful in our comments and make good arguments we would all be better for it
Do not think I have stopped contributing as I will lurk a bit but will be back late October.
Who knows what will have happened by then and assuming the Catalan's let me fly out of Barcelona to Heathrow
Good night
Disappear back under your rock and leave the discussions to those who actually want to discuss not just insult.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/07/theresa-may-secret-advice-brexit-eu
To be honest most UK politician's are all at sea at present !!!!
Hungary’s anti-migrant campaign takes root as villagers vent fury
https://www.ft.com/content/4ae32ad0-a9cb-11e7-ab55-27219df83c97
and the correlation between touching pitch and being defiled holds steady at 1.
Also, why would European leaders be worried about not reaching a satisfactory deal? They do not need a deal, we do, we have been told many times, and that they would be happy with no deal if we do not do as they say.
“It has never been my style to hide from a challenge and I’m not going to start now,” it quoted May as replying, in what it called a signal that she was prepared to bring in new ministers to her cabinet and axe those who had caused her problems.
“I’m the PM, and part of my job is to make sure I always have the best people in my cabinet, to make the most of the wealth of talent available to me in the party.”
May’s Downing Street office declined to comment on the Sunday Times story late on Saturday, saying it had not yet seen the interview.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-politics-may-reshuffle/uks-may-signals-plan-to-demote-foreign-minister-johnson-newspaper-says-idUSKBN1CC0RK?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=Social
Clever statement. It avoids saying that our notification can be withdrawn.