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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB the big winner in the August local by-elections with net g

SystemSystem Posts: 12,259
edited September 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB the big winner in the August local by-elections with net gain of 3 and vote share up 14%

Votes Cast, Share and Change on last time Labour 6,275 votes (41% +14% on last time) winning 6 seats (+3 seats on last time) Conservatives 5,893 votes (38% +3% on last time) winning 5 seats (unchanged on last time) Liberal Democrats 2,000 votes (13% +4% on last time) winning 1 seat (unchanged on last time) United Kingdom Independence Party 618 votes (4% -14% on last time) winning 0 seats (-2 seats on last time) Green Party 365 votes (2% -4% on last time) winning 0 seats (unchanged on last time) Independent candidates 263 votes (2% unchanged on last time) winning 0 seats (unchanged on last time) Local Independent candidates 61 votes (0% -4% on last time) winning 0 seats (-1 seat on last time) Labour lead of 382 votes (3%) on a swing of 5.5% from Con to Lab

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Comments

  • Feel the Corbyn surge.
  • Thanks Harry
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,371
    edited September 2017
    Third like the Libdems
  • Fourth like UKIP
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722
    Do they think the assassination was a good thing, or a bad thing?
  • Sean_F said:

    Do they think the assassination was a good thing, or a bad thing?
    Either way, it's the EU's fault.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,274
    Slightly more leavers are honest and say "Don't Know".
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,868
    tlg86 said:

    Slightly more leavers are honest and say "Don't Know".
    Or Leavers aren't members of the global elite, and therefore aren't "in the know".
  • They asked the wrong question. They should have asked: "Should Germany cover the cost to the EU budget if there's no deal with the UK?"
  • They asked the wrong question. They should have asked: "Should Germany cover the cost to the EU budget if there's no deal with the UK?"
    "Should we sacrifice German jobs at the altar of the EU?"
  • Good afternoon, everyone.

    Cheers, Mr. Hayfield.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,401
    Sean_F said:

    Do they think the assassination was a good thing, or a bad thing?
    Bumping off Diana and Brexit are ways of taking back control.
  • Quite a small sample but Labour do seem to have had a good month in local by-elections. Their post-election energy seems to be continuing.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,634
    574 days and 8 hours to go folks !
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,965

    They asked the wrong question. They should have asked: "Should Germany cover the cost to the EU budget if there's no deal with the UK?"
    A bit too loaded, I think.

    The question as asked is extraordinarily vague, anyway. What does 'concessions' mean in this context ?

    Absent >any< concessions (on either side), there will be no deal at all. I'm pretty sure if the question had been "should the EU not negotiate at all with the UK ?", the answer would have been very different.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,717
    Magic story FPT
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-41122909

    OAP 'reacts badly' to alcohol...

    Must have been a good night
  • It seems Davis has made up an anecdote about a European minister calling him a 'charming bastard' and it being on the front page of the FT. It turns out that person was him, and it wasn't anywhere near the front page.
    https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/903612498825359361
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,717
    calum said:
    She was dire on GMS this morning. Ranting and raving about building 8 new towns of social housing but having them all for sale and then when questioned about all the racists readmitted to party she lost and started on about six foot drunks with broken glasses etc. No wonder she has been hiding for 2 months.
  • chrisoxonchrisoxon Posts: 204
    edited September 2017
    Nigelb said:

    They asked the wrong question. They should have asked: "Should Germany cover the cost to the EU budget if there's no deal with the UK?"
    A bit too loaded, I think.

    The question as asked is extraordinarily vague, anyway. What does 'concessions' mean in this context ?

    Absent >any< concessions (on either side), there will be no deal at all. I'm pretty sure if the question had been "should the EU not negotiate at all with the UK ?", the answer would have been very different.
    I think these figures are from April when 18% thought that Germany would suffer economic losses from Brexit. They are not new figures and obviously don't take this week (or indeed the last few months!) events into account https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://www.forschungsgruppe.de/Umfragen/Politbarometer/Archiv/Politbarometer_2017/April_I_2017/&usg=ALkJrhjh3ukwqEO03jhOHDiWkoGgayzP4A

    The latest poll from this series didn't repeat this question and shows that 66% of Germans now think Brexit will have a negative impact on the EU, whereas in April only 18% though Germany would suffer losses... https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://www.forschungsgruppe.de/Umfragen/Politbarometer/Archiv/Politbarometer_2017/September_I_2017/&usg=ALkJrhgJylIK7PytB5Zt0a_xOaKDLsRSpQ

    EDIT: I may be wrong about this. It seems that the German's don't publish all the results and data tables are nowhere to be found, however this question was asked again. The arguments about the question being loaded and with no logical meaning are still perfectly valid though.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,764

    It seems Davis has made up an anecdote about a European minister calling him a 'charming bastard' and it being on the front page of the FT. It turns out that person was him, and it wasn't anywhere near the front page.
    https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/903612498825359361

    Charming bastard or smarmy arsehole?
  • I still cannot believe that the EU put a gun to the UK's head and forced us to trigger Article 50 before we had a proper understanding of what that would mean in practical terms and without giving us time to formulate even the semblance of a negotiating strategy.

  • Quite a small sample but Labour do seem to have had a good month in local by-elections. Their post-election energy seems to be continuing.

    I doubt that the grassroots of the Labour party have ever been more energised than they are now.

  • It seems Davis has made up an anecdote about a European minister calling him a 'charming bastard' and it being on the front page of the FT. It turns out that person was him, and it wasn't anywhere near the front page.
    https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/903612498825359361

    I have completely changed my mind about Brexit because of this. Thank you for sharing.
  • Jonathan said:

    It seems Davis has made up an anecdote about a European minister calling him a 'charming bastard' and it being on the front page of the FT. It turns out that person was him, and it wasn't anywhere near the front page.
    https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/903612498825359361

    Charming bastard or smarmy arsehole?

    The Minister for Winging It.

    The man who had years to learn how the EU works, how complex it would be to leave and what drives FTAs, but could not be arsed.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,764
    David Davis is an idiot. It's the only explanation for what's a going on.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. It's the only explanation for what's a going on.

    If that is the case, how come the Remainers couldn't beat him then?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. It's the only explanation for what's a going on.

    Hey! Don't forget Liam Fox. Give him some idiotness also.

    Funny because one looks at the opposition and disagrees/dislikes them for the views they hold but appreciates that they hold those views sincerely.

    Looking at May and Fox on the news, the dislike is not for their political ideals (what they?) but for their ineptitude. We are being lead by morons. That is what is so galling.
  • Mr. Topping, and yet, look at the alternative.

    A self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. It's the only explanation for what's a going on.

    If that is the case, how come the Remainers couldn't beat him then?
    a) opportunity to stick it to the man
    b) don't like foreigners
    c) reclaim sovereignty I*
    d) reclaim sovereignty II**

    *This group hadn't a clue what sovereignty meant
    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    *just that it didn't always seem like it, a bit like the world can seem flat if you are unaware of the reality of the situation.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,139
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/open_britain/status/903617538457833472

    From the most neutral of sources.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,139
    TOPPING said:



    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    The argument is that we had sovereignty could leave all along? Doesn't sound very useful...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,401
    edited September 2017
    There was an interesting discussion of this on Kieran's podcast a couple of days ago. His guest, Prof Portes was explaining there are two broad visions of a post-Brexit Britain. (Presumably having dismissed the idea of Brexit being inward looking and anti-globalist). Britain could be a global player making deals where it can. If the EU is part of that, so to the good, but it is not necessary. The other vision is for Britain to be part of the EU sphere and develop a close partnership with it. Kieran asked Prof Portes what a deal with the US would look like, given only that country would have the heft to compensate for a lack of a deep relationship with the EU. He reckoned it wouldn't be very useful to the UK because we would want to include integrated services and the US never does that.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,717
    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. It's the only explanation for what's a going on.

    You just realising that. He proved that long ago, your usual Tory windbag, full of wind and piss.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    edited September 2017
    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. It's the only explanation for what's a going on.

    If that is the case, how come the Remainers couldn't beat him then?
    a) opportunity to stick it to the man
    b) don't like foreigners
    c) reclaim sovereignty I*
    d) reclaim sovereignty II**

    *This group hadn't a clue what sovereignty meant
    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    *just that it didn't always seem like it, a bit like the world can seem flat if you are unaware of the reality of the situation.
    I'm going to keep refuting 'we had sovereignty all along'.

    Because of EU membership we have laws that not only have to be obeyed, but were also made against our wishes and imposed upon us by those who we would never be able to vote out. That is not sovereignty.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111

    Mr. Topping, and yet, look at the alternative.

    A self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.

    Very true
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Mortimer said:

    I'm going to keep refuting 'we had sovereignty all along'.

    Because of EU membership we have laws that not only have to be obeyed, but were also made against our wishes and imposed upon us by those who we would never be able to vote out. That is not sovereignty.

    This is such bollocks.

    Because we have International Airports we have laws that not only have to be obeyed, but were imposed upon us by those who we would never be able to vote out.

    To regain Sovereignty we should ban all International air travel...
  • Mortimer said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. It's the only explanation for what's a going on.

    If that is the case, how come the Remainers couldn't beat him then?
    a) opportunity to stick it to the man
    b) don't like foreigners
    c) reclaim sovereignty I*
    d) reclaim sovereignty II**

    *This group hadn't a clue what sovereignty meant
    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    *just that it didn't always seem like it, a bit like the world can seem flat if you are unaware of the reality of the situation.
    I'm going to keep refuting 'we had sovereignty all along'.

    Because of EU membership we have laws that not only have to be obeyed, but were also made against our wishes and imposed upon us by those who we would never be able to vote out. That is not sovereignty.
    Because of UK membership of the EU, they had to accept our participation in their lawmaking, with veto power in many areas. Perhaps the slogan should have been "Give away control"!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,965

    Jonathan said:

    It seems Davis has made up an anecdote about a European minister calling him a 'charming bastard' and it being on the front page of the FT. It turns out that person was him, and it wasn't anywhere near the front page.
    https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/903612498825359361

    Charming bastard or smarmy arsehole?

    The Minister for Winging It.

    The man who had years to learn how the EU works, how complex it would be to leave and what drives FTAs, but could not be arsed.

    Sounds a bit like the Brexit version of Cameron...
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Mr. Topping, and yet, look at the alternative.

    A self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.

    Morris you are beginning to sound like a TINA from the 1980s.
  • Mr. Glenn, many vetoes? Many fewer since Brown reneged upon an election promise and threw them away.

    Mr. City, do you disagree? I'm no fan of May, but the alternative is a man who admires (or admired, we have no idea if he's changed his mind because he won't say anything about) Venezuela's economic approach and has described men who throw political rivals and homosexuals from rooftops as friends.
  • RobD said:

    TOPPING said:



    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    The argument is that we had sovereignty could leave all along? Doesn't sound very useful...
    Quite, it is a ridiculous argument:

    A: "EU now controls X, I don't like it"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain the right to leave the EU"
    A: "Can we leave the EU then?"
    B: "NO!"
    A: "So the EU does have control over X?"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain...."
    (repeat ad infinitum)
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158

    Mortimer said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. It's the only explanation for what's a going on.

    If that is the case, how come the Remainers couldn't beat him then?
    a) opportunity to stick it to the man
    b) don't like foreigners
    c) reclaim sovereignty I*
    d) reclaim sovereignty II**

    *This group hadn't a clue what sovereignty meant
    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    *just that it didn't always seem like it, a bit like the world can seem flat if you are unaware of the reality of the situation.
    I'm going to keep refuting 'we had sovereignty all along'.

    Because of EU membership we have laws that not only have to be obeyed, but were also made against our wishes and imposed upon us by those who we would never be able to vote out. That is not sovereignty.
    Because of UK membership of the EU, they had to accept our participation in their lawmaking, with veto power in many areas. Perhaps the slogan should have been "Give away control"!
    QMV.

    Eurozone block voting.

    The EU has become something alien to our traditions.
  • Donald Trump in 1988 on Oprah Winfrey.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZpMJeynBeg

    His views are consistent with 2017.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587

    Mr. Topping, and yet, look at the alternative.

    A self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.

    In fairness note that he's said it was an inappropriate word to use, and I don't think anyone really thinks he's a fan of all their policies. It would be accurate, though, to say that he's been consistently helpful in giving a hearing to groups critical of postwar Western policy, when most of us would have been more selective. In the age of President Trump, a reluctance to sign up for whatever the US does looks a lot healthier than it might have done 20 years ago. Boris's statement - explicitly with May's blessing - that it'd be very difficult to refuse a request from Trump for military action looks particularly unnerving these days.

    Curiously, too, Corbyn's courteous instinct can be a problem, as it leads him not to deal with people with a long spoon - his default in talking to anyone at all is to be amicable, as Tories who've dealt with him personally will confirm.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    chrisoxon said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:



    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    The argument is that we had sovereignty could leave all along? Doesn't sound very useful...
    Quite, it is a ridiculous argument:

    A: "EU now controls X, I don't like it"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain the right to leave the EU"
    A: "Can we leave the EU then?"
    B: "NO!"
    A: "So the EU does have control over X?"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain...."
    (repeat ad infinitum)
    Like any club. I'm not sure you could walk into the pavilion as an MCC member wearing nothing but a big smile.

    Modern international relations are all about pooling sovereignty to some degree.

    That said North Korea's is pretty sovereign.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,401
    I would say we gave up real influence for nominal sovereignty. Does that give us control? We will no longer do things we used to and still want to do. Some of us will blame the EU for willfulness that we no longer can do those things. Blame isn't control however.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,837
    edited September 2017
    The Sueddeutsche Zeitung: May is lurching clueless into Brexit

    http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/grossbritannien-may-und-ihre-minister-taumeln-ahnungslos-in-den-brexit-1.3647563

    It ends on an optimistic note, saying that the UK has overcome countless crises and that hopefully May, Davis, Johnson and Fox will just be a footnote in our history.
  • TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:



    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    The argument is that we had sovereignty could leave all along? Doesn't sound very useful...
    Quite, it is a ridiculous argument:

    A: "EU now controls X, I don't like it"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain the right to leave the EU"
    A: "Can we leave the EU then?"
    B: "NO!"
    A: "So the EU does have control over X?"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain...."
    (repeat ad infinitum)
    Like any club. I'm not sure you could walk into the pavilion as an MCC member wearing nothing but a big smile.

    Modern international relations are all about pooling sovereignty to some degree.

    That said North Korea's is pretty sovereign.
    So you finally accept that the line "we were always sovereign" is more spin than substance?
  • WinstanleyWinstanley Posts: 434
    edited September 2017
    TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:



    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    The argument is that we had sovereignty could leave all along? Doesn't sound very useful...
    Quite, it is a ridiculous argument:

    A: "EU now controls X, I don't like it"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain the right to leave the EU"
    A: "Can we leave the EU then?"
    B: "NO!"
    A: "So the EU does have control over X?"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain...."
    (repeat ad infinitum)
    Like any club. I'm not sure you could walk into the pavilion as an MCC member wearing nothing but a big smile.

    Modern international relations are all about pooling sovereignty to some degree.

    That said North Korea's is pretty sovereign.
    “If you remove the English Remoaner army tomorrow and hoist the Saltire Union Jack over Edinburgh Castle the European Parliament's UK offices, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. England Europe would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.”
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111

    Mr. Topping, and yet, look at the alternative.

    A self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.

    In fairness note that he's said it was an inappropriate word to use, and I don't think anyone really thinks he's a fan of all their policies. It would be accurate, though, to say that he's been consistently helpful in giving a hearing to groups critical of postwar Western policy, when most of us would have been more selective. In the age of President Trump, a reluctance to sign up for whatever the US does looks a lot healthier than it might have done 20 years ago. Boris's statement - explicitly with May's blessing - that it'd be very difficult to refuse a request from Trump for military action looks particularly unnerving these days.

    Curiously, too, Corbyn's courteous instinct can be a problem, as it leads him not to deal with people with a long spoon - his default in talking to anyone at all is to be amicable, as Tories who've dealt with him personally will confirm.
    Bollocks, Nick. He supported Hamas & Hezbollah because they were anti Israel.

    To Corbyn, Israel = oppressive hegemonic western imperial oppressors.

    Of course, to Hamas/Hezbollah, Israel = the Jews.

    He applied the my enemy's enemy is my friend (literally) very very inappropriately. Or perhaps not, to him.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    David Davis is an idiot. It's the only explanation for what's a going on.

    If that is the case, how come the Remainers couldn't beat him then?
    The Remainers were led by Cameron and Osborne, who thought they were playing cricket, when really they were playing polo. Then the Tory chums playing for the other side turned up with hand grenades. Small wonder the country is in such a mess.
  • So Leavers are more likely to be less educated, obese and conspiracy theorists.

    That's quite the image that's being built up.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,484
    edited September 2017

    Mr. Topping, and yet, look at the alternative.

    A self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.

    In fairness note that he's said it was an inappropriate word to use, and I don't think anyone really thinks he's a fan of all their policies. It would be accurate, though, to say that he's been consistently helpful in giving a hearing to groups critical of postwar Western policy, when most of us would have been more selective. In the age of President Trump, a reluctance to sign up for whatever the US does looks a lot healthier than it might have done 20 years ago. Boris's statement - explicitly with May's blessing - that it'd be very difficult to refuse a request from Trump for military action looks particularly unnerving these days.

    Curiously, too, Corbyn's courteous instinct can be a problem, as it leads him not to deal with people with a long spoon - his default in talking to anyone at all is to be amicable, as Tories who've dealt with him personally will confirm.
    Into which of these categories does Corbyn's decision earlier this year, on the 22nd anniversary of the Srebrenica massacre in Bosnia (the cold-blooded murder of 7000 men and boys, the worst war crime in Europe since WW2) to have dinner with Marcus Papadopoulos, a renowned Srebrenica-denier and Assad apologist fall?

    Corbyn himself has denied that genocide - of the Muslims of Kosovo - ever happened. Was this another example, Nick, of him "giving a hearing to groups critical of postwar Western policy" - the policy in this case being the US and allies intervening in Kosovo to save Muslims from murder and ethnic cleansing?
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Mr. Glenn, many vetoes? Many fewer since Brown reneged upon an election promise and threw them away.

    Mr. City, do you disagree? I'm no fan of May, but the alternative is a man who admires (or admired, we have no idea if he's changed his mind because he won't say anything about) Venezuela's economic approach and has described men who throw political rivals and homosexuals from rooftops as friends.

    I am no fan of either but hard to deny he offers an alternative to many, the few who are really concerned about his views on the middle East and South America would never consider in the main voting Labour.The constant derision of him in contrast to when you see him in interviews is stark.I consider him more naive than a supporter of the group's you describe .Somewhat of a latter day conscientious objector.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,523

    So Leavers are more likely to be less educated, obese and conspiracy theorists.

    That's quite the image that's being built up.

    Don't forget the underwear!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    chrisoxon said:

    TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:



    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    The argument is that we had sovereignty could leave all along? Doesn't sound very useful...
    Quite, it is a ridiculous argument:

    A: "EU now controls X, I don't like it"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain the right to leave the EU"
    A: "Can we leave the EU then?"
    B: "NO!"
    A: "So the EU does have control over X?"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain...."
    (repeat ad infinitum)
    Like any club. I'm not sure you could walk into the pavilion as an MCC member wearing nothing but a big smile.

    Modern international relations are all about pooling sovereignty to some degree.

    That said North Korea's is pretty sovereign.
    So you finally accept that the line "we were always sovereign" is more spin than substance?
    Not at all. We as a sovereign nation decided to join the club and as it turned out we as a sovereign nation decided to leave it.

    We maintained our sovereignty throughout because we had signed up to a commonly-agreed set of rules which the club established for all members.

    This is not tricky stuff, really. Could we zero-rate VAT on domestic energy supplies? No. Because we had decided to join a club wherein that was not allowed. Did that mean we were any less sovereign? Of course not. Can Barclays avoid MiFID's pre-trade transparency without using an official waiver? No. Does that make us any less sovereign? Well you tell me.

    My reductio ad absurdum with North Korea was to illustrate what a country which doesn't want to join any club looks like.
  • So Leavers are more likely to be less educated, obese and conspiracy theorists.

    That's quite the image that's being built up.

    The humiliation that Remain lost to these people grows exponentially.....
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,439
    edited September 2017
    Just another day in the PB bubble- Personal insults and abuse for Leavers, David Davis is an idiot and Brexit is going to be a disaster...

    Did I miss anything?

    Oh and hi, BTW :D
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    GIN1138 said:

    Just another day in the PB bubble- Personal insults and abuse for Leavers, David Davis is an idiot and Brexit is going to be a disaster...

    Oh and hi, BTW :D

    Personal insults? Thems is facts. It was a poll so incontrovertibly true.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:



    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    The argument is that we had sovereignty could leave all along? Doesn't sound very useful...
    Quite, it is a ridiculous argument:

    A: "EU now controls X, I don't like it"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain the right to leave the EU"
    A: "Can we leave the EU then?"
    B: "NO!"
    A: "So the EU does have control over X?"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain...."
    (repeat ad infinitum)
    Like any club. I'm not sure you could walk into the pavilion as an MCC member wearing nothing but a big smile.

    Modern international relations are all about pooling sovereignty to some degree.

    That said North Korea's is pretty sovereign.
    “If you remove the English Remoaner army tomorrow and hoist the Saltire Union Jack over Edinburgh Castle the European Parliament's UK offices, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. England Europe would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.”
    There is a lot of truth to that.

    I would rather be ruled by almost anyone in preference to JRM, Liam Fox and their little acolytes.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:



    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    The argument is that we had sovereignty could leave all along? Doesn't sound very useful...
    Quite, it is a ridiculous argument:

    A: "EU now controls X, I don't like it"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain the right to leave the EU"
    A: "Can we leave the EU then?"
    B: "NO!"
    A: "So the EU does have control over X?"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain...."
    (repeat ad infinitum)
    Like any club. I'm not sure you could walk into the pavilion as an MCC member wearing nothing but a big smile.

    Modern international relations are all about pooling sovereignty to some degree.

    That said North Korea's is pretty sovereign.
    So you finally accept that the line "we were always sovereign" is more spin than substance?
    Not at all. We as a sovereign nation decided to join the club and as it turned out we as a sovereign nation decided to leave it.

    We maintained our sovereignty throughout because we had signed up to a commonly-agreed set of rules which the club established for all members.

    This is not tricky stuff, really. Could we zero-rate VAT on domestic energy supplies? No. Because we had decided to join a club wherein that was not allowed. Did that mean we were any less sovereign? Of course not. Can Barclays avoid MiFID's pre-trade transparency without using an official waiver? No. Does that make us any less sovereign? Well you tell me.

    My reductio ad absurdum with North Korea was to illustrate what a country which doesn't want to join any club looks like.
    You could, instead, have chosen Switzerland as a country that choses not to join clubs ... or at least to do so very selectively.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,111
    MTimT said:

    TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:



    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    The argument is that we had sovereignty could leave all along? Doesn't sound very useful...
    Quite, it is a ridiculous argument:

    A: "EU now controls X, I don't like it"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain the right to leave the EU"
    A: "Can we leave the EU then?"
    B: "NO!"
    A: "So the EU does have control over X?"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain...."
    (repeat ad infinitum)
    Like any club. I'm not sure you could walk into the pavilion as an MCC member wearing nothing but a big smile.

    Modern international relations are all about pooling sovereignty to some degree.

    That said North Korea's is pretty sovereign.
    So you finally accept that the line "we were always sovereign" is more spin than substance?
    Not at all. We as a sovereign nation decided to join the club and as it turned out we as a sovereign nation decided to leave it.

    We maintained our sovereignty throughout because we had signed up to a commonly-agreed set of rules which the club established for all members.

    This is not tricky stuff, really. Could we zero-rate VAT on domestic energy supplies? No. Because we had decided to join a club wherein that was not allowed. Did that mean we were any less sovereign? Of course not. Can Barclays avoid MiFID's pre-trade transparency without using an official waiver? No. Does that make us any less sovereign? Well you tell me.

    My reductio ad absurdum with North Korea was to illustrate what a country which doesn't want to join any club looks like.
    You could, instead, have chosen Switzerland as a country that choses not to join clubs ... or at least to do so very selectively.
    Yes Switzerland is a good-ish example. One that DD ruled out emulating, that said.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: Playing the world's smallest violin right now ... https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/903625454170632193
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,484
    edited September 2017
    TOPPING said:

    Mr. Topping, and yet, look at the alternative.

    A self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.

    In fairness note that he's said it was an inappropriate word to use, and I don't think anyone really thinks he's a fan of all their policies. It would be accurate, though, to say that he's been consistently helpful in giving a hearing to groups critical of postwar Western policy, when most of us would have been more selective. In the age of President Trump, a reluctance to sign up for whatever the US does looks a lot healthier than it might have done 20 years ago. Boris's statement - explicitly with May's blessing - that it'd be very difficult to refuse a request from Trump for military action looks particularly unnerving these days.

    Curiously, too, Corbyn's courteous instinct can be a problem, as it leads him not to deal with people with a long spoon - his default in talking to anyone at all is to be amicable, as Tories who've dealt with him personally will confirm.
    Bollocks, Nick. He supported Hamas & Hezbollah because they were anti Israel.

    To Corbyn, Israel = oppressive hegemonic western imperial oppressors.

    Of course, to Hamas/Hezbollah, Israel = the Jews.

    He applied the my enemy's enemy is my friend (literally) very very inappropriately. Or perhaps not, to him.

    Are there any examples of him "courteously" telling the people he associates with that their views and policies are wrong and abhorrent? Or does his courtesy only go so far to explain why he is so often in their company or speaking at their rallies or going on foreign trips with them? Does his courtesy extend to " giving a hearing" to those who oppose such groups? Victims of Assad, for instance? Or Palestinians who oppose Hamas?

    Does it not even give @NickPalmer the slightest concern that his party's leader freely chooses to go on foreign trips with Holocaust deniers? Not even the teensiest smidgen of concern?

    This is something more than naivety on Corbyn's part. It goes to his judgment and, as far as the party he leads is concerned, it goes to whether they really believe and act on the values they claim to profess and which they hurl as a sword against others.

    Easy for Labour to criticise a US President for not disassociating himself from people waving swastikas and railing against Jews taking them over. Apparently much harder for Labour to notice that their own leader chooses to go on trips with Holocaust deniers who share the same views about Jews as those horrid American Nazis.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,803

    So Leavers are more likely to be less educated, obese and conspiracy theorists.

    That's quite the image that's being built up.

    The humiliation that Remain lost to these people grows exponentially.....
    Nah. I think it grows at a constant rate. :wink:
  • So Leavers are more likely to be less educated, obese and conspiracy theorists.

    That's quite the image that's being built up.

    Yeh, and quite a few of them to turned up to vote for the first time in their lives. Bloody nerve.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Cyclefree said:

    Mr. Topping, and yet, look at the alternative.

    A self-declared friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.

    In fairness note that he's said it was an inappropriate word to use, and I don't think anyone really thinks he's a fan of all their policies. It would be accurate, though, to say that he's been consistently helpful in giving a hearing to groups critical of postwar Western policy, when most of us would have been more selective. In the age of President Trump, a reluctance to sign up for whatever the US does looks a lot healthier than it might have done 20 years ago. Boris's statement - explicitly with May's blessing - that it'd be very difficult to refuse a request from Trump for military action looks particularly unnerving these days.

    Curiously, too, Corbyn's courteous instinct can be a problem, as it leads him not to deal with people with a long spoon - his default in talking to anyone at all is to be amicable, as Tories who've dealt with him personally will confirm.
    Into which of these categories does Corbyn's decision earlier this year, on the 22nd anniversary of the Srebrenica massacre in Bosnia (the cold-blooded murder of 7000 men and boys, the worst war crime in Europe since WW2) to have dinner with Marcus Papadopoulos, a renowned Srebrenica-denier and Assad apologist fall?

    Corbyn himself has denied that genocide - of the Muslims of Kosovo - ever happened. Was this another example, Nick, of him "giving a hearing to groups critical of postwar Western policy" - the policy in this case being the US and allies intervening in Kosovo to save Muslims from murder and ethnic cleansing?
    Sources please.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,717
    GIN1138 said:

    Just another day in the PB bubble- Personal insults and abuse for Leavers, David Davis is an idiot and Brexit is going to be a disaster...

    Did I miss anything?

    Oh and hi, BTW :D

    Hello GIN, just the usual handbags stuff, though Davis is at minimum an idiot and we are in the merde. Tories have a lot to answer for, thicker than mince.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,139
    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Playing the world's smallest violin right now ... https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/903625454170632193

    They haven't been forced to do anything....
  • Cyclefree said:



    In fairness note that he's said it was an inappropriate word to use, and I don't think anyone really thinks he's a fan of all their policies....

    Into which of these categories does Corbyn's decision earlier this year, on the 22nd anniversary of the Srebrenica massacre in Bosnia (the cold-blooded murder of 7000 men and boys, the worst war crime in Europe since WW2) to have dinner with Marcus Papadopoulos, a renowned Srebrenica-denier and Assad apologist fall?

    Corbyn himself has denied that genocide - of the Muslims of Kosovo - ever happened. Was this another example, Nick, of him "giving a hearing to groups critical of postwar Western policy" - the policy in this case being the US and allies intervening in Kosovo to save Muslims from murder and ethnic cleansing?
    To be fair, this Papadopoulos character seems to get around politicians of all parties, Corbyn may not have been aware of his views any more than the rest: https://medium.com/@pitt_bob/marcus-papadopoulos-and-the-smearing-of-jeremy-corbyn-dcb226b85ba2

    Do you have a link for Corbyn denying the killing of Muslims in Kosovo? I found this (https://www.ukalbanians.net/jeremy-corbyn-in-2004-had-dismissed-serbian-war-crimes-in-kosovo-as-a-fabrication/) but the motion it refers to has been misquoted. Straight after the reference to an untrue genocide the motion (https://www.parliament.uk/edm/2004-05/392) referred to:

    'President Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen claimed, entirely without foundation, that 'we've now seen about 100,000 military-aged [Albanian] men missing.....they may have been murdered' and that David Scheffer, the US ambassador-at-large for war crimes, announced with equal inaccuracy that as many as '225,000 ethnic Albanian men aged between 14 and 59' may have been killed'

    Which in truth were both vastly inflated as a pretext for war. The motion doesn't refer to the Srebrenica massacre at all (which is a problem in itself) but I can't find anything where Corbyn denies it, and there's plenty of argument about whether it constitutes a 'genocide' or not which has more to do with political interpretation than the facts of the case.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    geoffw said:

    So Leavers are more likely to be less educated, obese and conspiracy theorists.

    That's quite the image that's being built up.

    The humiliation that Remain lost to these people grows exponentially.....
    Nah. I think it grows at a constant rate. :wink:
    I say polynomial.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,439
    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Just another day in the PB bubble- Personal insults and abuse for Leavers, David Davis is an idiot and Brexit is going to be a disaster...

    Did I miss anything?

    Oh and hi, BTW :D

    Hello GIN, just the usual handbags stuff, though Davis is at minimum an idiot and we are in the merde. Tories have a lot to answer for, thicker than mince.
    Afternoon Malc. :D

    How's Scotland looking? :)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    The humiliation that Remain lost to these people grows exponentially.....

    @mrjamesob: This tweet is one year old this week. https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/772690990486413312
  • Scott_P said:

    The humiliation that Remain lost to these people grows exponentially.....

    @mrjamesob: This tweet is one year old this week. https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/772690990486413312
    James O'Brien is a lying piece of shit. Anyone quoting him as a source or a commentator should be considered the same. The cap fits you well Scott.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,353
    edited September 2017

    So Leavers are more likely to be less educated, obese and conspiracy theorists.

    That's quite the image that's being built up.

    Don't forget the smelly pants.

    Edit: I see I was beaten to it!
  • TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:



    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    The argument is that we had sovereignty could leave all along? Doesn't sound very useful...
    Quite, it is a ridiculous argument:

    A: "EU now controls X, I don't like it"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain the right to leave the EU"
    A: "Can we leave the EU then?"
    B: "NO!"
    A: "So the EU does have control over X?"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain...."
    (repeat ad infinitum)
    Like any club. I'm not sure you could walk into the pavilion as an MCC member wearing nothing but a big smile.

    Modern international relations are all about pooling sovereignty to some degree.

    That said North Korea's is pretty sovereign.
    So you finally accept that the line "we were always sovereign" is more spin than substance?
    Not at all. We as a sovereign nation decided to join the club and as it turned out we as a sovereign nation decided to leave it.

    We maintained our sovereignty throughout because we had signed up to a commonly-agreed set of rules which the club established for all members.

    This is not tricky stuff, really. Could we zero-rate VAT on domestic energy supplies? No. Because we had decided to join a club wherein that was not allowed. Did that mean we were any less sovereign? Of course not. Can Barclays avoid MiFID's pre-trade transparency without using an official waiver? No. Does that make us any less sovereign? Well you tell me.

    My reductio ad absurdum with North Korea was to illustrate what a country which doesn't want to join any club looks like.
    Sigh. And Topping wins the dunce hat for the day once again. I would explain it to you again in words of one syllable but you are genuinely too dumb to understand.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    James O'Brien is a lying piece of shit. Anyone quoting him as a source or a commentator should be considered the same.

    QED
  • The local business directory that helped JR Hartley find his book on fly fishing is set to go out of print.

    The Yellow Pages will no longer be published on paper from next year onwards, more than five decades after it launched in the UK.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41125865

    I blame Brexit...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    The local business directory that helped JR Hartley find his book on fly fishing is set to go out of print.

    The Yellow Pages will no longer be published on paper from next year onwards, more than five decades after it launched in the UK.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41125865

    I blame Brexit...

    @dan_howells: The irony of having to Google the number for the Yellow Pages to confirm whether they're going out of print would make Morisette's head spin
  • Dems POTUS very early list of potential runners and riders:

    https://www.axios.com/dems-begin-lining-up-2020-staff-cash-2480249930.html

    Some of it is a bit off-the-wall. George Clooney? Then again...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,484

    Cyclefree said:



    To be fair, this Papadopoulos character seems to get around politicians of all parties, Corbyn may not have been aware of his views any more than the rest: https://medium.com/@pitt_bob/marcus-papadopoulos-and-the-smearing-of-jeremy-corbyn-dcb226b85ba2

    Do you have a link for Corbyn denying the killing of Muslims in Kosovo? I found this (https://www.ukalbanians.net/jeremy-corbyn-in-2004-had-dismissed-serbian-war-crimes-in-kosovo-as-a-fabrication/) but the motion it refers to has been misquoted. Straight after the reference to an untrue genocide the motion (https://www.parliament.uk/edm/2004-05/392) referred to:

    'President Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen claimed, entirely without foundation, that 'we've now seen about 100,000 military-aged [Albanian] men missing.....they may have been murdered' and that David Scheffer, the US ambassador-at-large for war crimes, announced with equal inaccuracy that as many as '225,000 ethnic Albanian men aged between 14 and 59' may have been killed'

    Which in truth were both vastly inflated as a pretext for war. The motion doesn't refer to the Srebrenica massacre at all (which is a problem in itself) but I can't find anything where Corbyn denies it, and there's plenty of argument about whether it constitutes a 'genocide' or not which has more to do with political interpretation than the facts of the case.
    Here are the links.

    The first is to the motion relating to Kosovo - https://www.parliament.uk/edm/2004-05/392

    The second is from Labour Uncut - http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2017/07/12/those-who-think-the-corbyn-leadership-can-change-are-dreaming-appeasement-will-only-strengthen-the-hard-lefts-hand/#more-21760

    I have not said that Corbyn has denied the Srebenica massacre. He is on record as opposing the West's actions against Milosovic, who was responsible for the barbaric acts committed against Bosnian Muslims. Why - if you hold the values Labour claims to espouse - choose to side with Milosovic? It is not easy to say when a war is just but if anything fulfilled the criteria, it was the action which the West belatedly - and at the behest of the US - took to protect Bosnian Muslims and to stop the murderous Serbian regime.

    It is hard to avoid the conclusion that it was precisely the West and the US taking the action which was an issue for Corbyn. And in consistent pursuit of that principle he has been willing to overlook appalling suffering and been willing to be on the side of those perpetrating that suffering.

    That should shame decent Labour folk. Instead of which they claim that setting out the facts is a smear and turn their attention to calling everyone else fascists or nazis.....

    Labour should be better than this.
  • "The sovereignty of Parliament is a fundamental principle of the UK constitution. Whilst Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU, it has not always felt like that."

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-united-kingdoms-exit-from-and-new-partnership-with-the-european-union-white-paper/the-united-kingdoms-exit-from-and-new-partnership-with-the-european-union--2
  • TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:



    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    The argument is that we had sovereignty could leave all along? Doesn't sound very useful...
    Quite, it is a ridiculous argument:

    A: "EU now controls X, I don't like it"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain the right to leave the EU"
    A: "Can we leave the EU then?"
    B: "NO!"
    A: "So the EU does have control over X?"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain...."
    (repeat ad infinitum)
    Like any club. I'm not sure you could walk into the pavilion as an MCC member wearing nothing but a big smile.

    Modern international relations are all about pooling sovereignty to some degree.

    That said North Korea's is pretty sovereign.
    So you finally accept that the line "we were always sovereign" is more spin than substance?
    Not at all. We as a sovereign nation decided to join the club and as it turned out we as a sovereign nation decided to leave it.

    We maintained our sovereignty throughout because we had signed up to a commonly-agreed set of rules which the club established for all members.

    This is not tricky stuff, really. Could we zero-rate VAT on domestic energy supplies? No. Because we had decided to join a club wherein that was not allowed. Did that mean we were any less sovereign? Of course not. Can Barclays avoid MiFID's pre-trade transparency without using an official waiver? No. Does that make us any less sovereign? Well you tell me.

    My reductio ad absurdum with North Korea was to illustrate what a country which doesn't want to join any club looks like.
    Sigh. And Topping wins the dunce hat for the day once again. I would explain it to you again in words of one syllable but you are genuinely too dumb to understand.

    I bet you could not explain it in words of one syllable.

  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:



    To be fair, this Papadopoulos character seems to get around politicians of all parties, Corbyn may not have been aware of his views any more than the rest: https://medium.com/@pitt_bob/marcus-papadopoulos-and-the-smearing-of-jeremy-corbyn-dcb226b85ba2

    [snip].
    Here are the links.

    The first is to the motion relating to Kosovo - https://www.parliament.uk/edm/2004-05/392

    The second is from Labour Uncut - http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2017/07/12/those-who-think-the-corbyn-leadership-can-change-are-dreaming-appeasement-will-only-strengthen-the-hard-lefts-hand/#more-21760

    I have not said that Corbyn has denied the Srebenica massacre. He is on record as opposing the West's actions against Milosovic, who was responsible for the barbaric acts committed against Bosnian Muslims. Why - if you hold the values Labour claims to espouse - choose to side with Milosovic? It is not easy to say when a war is just but if anything fulfilled the criteria, it was the action which the West belatedly - and at the behest of the US - took to protect Bosnian Muslims and to stop the murderous Serbian regime.

    It is hard to avoid the conclusion that it was precisely the West and the US taking the action which was an issue for Corbyn. And in consistent pursuit of that principle he has been willing to overlook appalling suffering and been willing to be on the side of those perpetrating that suffering.

    That should shame decent Labour folk. Instead of which they claim that setting out the facts is a smear and turn their attention to calling everyone else fascists or nazis.....

    Labour should be better than this.
    We're not going to sort out the rights and wrongs of the intervention in Kosovo here, but surely we should be past the propagandistic nonsense of 'if you opposed x war, you're on the the side of the government of x'. It's obviously a far more complicated topic (see: https://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/nato/Natbm200-01.htm)

    I'm interested in your specific claim: 'Corbyn himself has denied that genocide - of the Muslims of Kosovo - ever happened.' You now say 'I have not said that Corbyn has denied the Srebenica massacre', but that's what that sounds like to me. If not what else are you referring to?

    If you'd read my post you might have seen that's exact motion I posted, and it's been misquoted. It specifically refers to claims which were used to bolster the case for war and which were in fact untrue.
  • In as surprising news as finding PB arguing over Brexit....

    Paris-St Germain investigated by Uefa over financial fair play
  • TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    TOPPING said:

    chrisoxon said:

    RobD said:

    TOPPING said:



    **This group new what it meant but, as per your hero DD, didn't understand that we possessed it all along*

    The argument is that we had sovereignty could leave all along? Doesn't sound very useful...
    Quite, it is a ridiculous argument:

    A: "EU now controls X, I don't like it"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain the right to leave the EU"
    A: "Can we leave the EU then?"
    B: "NO!"
    A: "So the EU does have control over X?"
    B: "No, we still have control because we retain...."
    (repeat ad infinitum)
    Like any club. I'm not sure you could walk into the pavilion as an MCC member wearing nothing but a big smile.

    Modern international relations are all about pooling sovereignty to some degree.

    That said North Korea's is pretty sovereign.
    So you finally accept that the line "we were always sovereign" is more spin than substance?
    Not at all. We as a sovereign nation decided to join the club and as it turned out we as a sovereign nation decided to leave it.

    We maintained our sovereignty throughout because we had signed up to a commonly-agreed set of rules which the club established for all members.

    This is not tricky stuff, really. Could we zero-rate VAT on domestic energy supplies? No. Because we had decided to join a club wherein that was not allowed. Did that mean we were any less sovereign? Of course not. Can Barclays avoid MiFID's pre-trade transparency without using an official waiver? No. Does that make us any less sovereign? Well you tell me.

    My reductio ad absurdum with North Korea was to illustrate what a country which doesn't want to join any club looks like.
    Sigh. And Topping wins the dunce hat for the day once again. I would explain it to you again in words of one syllable but you are genuinely too dumb to understand.

    I bet you could not explain it in words of one syllable.

    Ooh a good challenge! :D
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited September 2017
    Facebook has mapped the entire human population of earth

    The data set has a resolution of five meters and knows where man-made structures are everywhere on the planet.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/01/facebook-has-mapped-human-population-building-internet-in-space.html
  • Scott_P said:

    James O'Brien is a lying piece of shit. Anyone quoting him as a source or a commentator should be considered the same.

    QED
    Indeed. The cap fits snugly on your head.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Indeed.

    You are angrier than ever at the people who warned you instead of the liars.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited September 2017
    Of all the reasons to pick up on why Murdoch shouldn't get full control of Sky, Miliband misses the dartboard....

    Miliband said the deal should be referred on the grounds of broadcasting standards because of the risk that the Murdochs could push through the “Foxification” of Sky News, meaning it would broadcast news with the same rightwing slant as Fox News in the US.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/01/ed-miliband-evidence-against-murdoch-bid-for-sky-is-growing
This discussion has been closed.