Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Jacob Rees-Mogg heads for the favourite slot in the TMay succe

13

Comments

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    TOPPING said:

    What do you imagine a transition deal will look like? A have cake and eat it transition? It means that we will continue to benefit from EU membership and be bound by the EU rules. Or it is not a transition. It is a leaving.
    It is a leaving

    Woohoo!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TOPPING said:

    Ah yes well of course. Provided they don't come into effect until after the transition period. I think that's fair to be able to negotiate. Not 100% sure that was what he was stating, though.
    I didn't hear it either, but you said "signing" which is true, although possibly misleading.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited August 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    This is a membership that elected IDS... Surely anything is possible? ;)
    That was in opposition, and purely because of the EU issue. Contrary to popular belief on PB, the EU won't be a deciding factor after 2019; we'll have left. The issue will be closed, for better or worse.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,777
    edited August 2017

    That was in opposition, and purely because of the EU issue. Contrary to popular belief on PB, the EU won't be an issue after 2019; we'll have left. The issue will be closed.
    Not if we're starting a two year "transition"... Surely the membership will want to elect a Brexiteer to make sure that come 2021 there's no backsliding?
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    That was in opposition, and purely because of the EU issue. Contrary to popular belief on PB, the EU won't be a deciding factor after 2019; we'll have left. The issue will be closed, for better or worse.
    Popular belief on PB doesn't even understand the current wings of the Tory party: it's not those who voted Leave vs those who voted Remain; it's those who want to implement the referendum result vs those who don't.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Alistair said:

    Errr, Slavery being referred to as America's Original Sin predates the West Wing.
    Used 1831

    https://socialtextjournal.org/original-sin-slavery-and-american-innocence/

    And very two-edged: the point about *original* sin being that you can't do anything about it, so why bother trying?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited August 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    Not if we're starting a two year "transition"... Surely the membership will want to elect a Brexiteer to make sure that come 2021 there's no backsliding?

    We'll know what we are transitioning to. What will matter is not Remain vs Leave - that horse will have definitely bolted - but who can best articulate a vision for our post-EU future.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    That was in opposition, and purely because of the EU issue. Contrary to popular belief on PB, the EU won't be a deciding factor after 2019; we'll have left. The issue will be closed, for better or worse.
    I'm far from convinced that the average Conservative member is saner now than they were in 2001. All the evidence points to the contrary.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,113
    GeoffM said:

    That 'flouncing' helped get us a referendum - which has produced a fantastic result for the country.

    (Snip)
    You are counting your chickens before the eggs have been laid, yet alone hatched.

    Though I hope you're correct.

    But we're talking about the good of the Conservative Party here, not the country. The two are often coincident, but need not be.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,890
    Charles said:

    You realise he was just quoting the West Wing?

    Lord Marbury : "The darkness in our sunshine, the shadow in our souls, the biblical sins of the fathers. For Americans, it's slavery. Slavery is your original sin. That and your unfortunate history with your aborigines."
    Toby : "Native Americans."
    Lord Marbury : "For the English, it's Ireland."
    The idea is a great deal older than that.
    Senator Charles Sumner, opposing Texas’ admission to the union, as a slave state, in 1845:

    “Slavery, we are speciously told by those who seek to defend it, is not our original sin. It was entailed upon us, so we are instructed, by our ancestors; and the responsibility is often, with exultation, thrown upon the mother country...”
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,113
    Mortimer said:

    Eh?

    UKIP have no MPs. They forced a democratic decision that resulted in the Tory vote share returning to mid 40s. How has that seriously damaged the party?
    You appear to have forgotten Carswell and the TPD ...

    You also appear to have forgotten than the Conservatives had rather more MPs three months ago, and are now led by a deeply damaged leader that has led to the current threader talking about who will replace her.

    Yep, serious damage to the party.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    You appear to have forgotten Carswell and the TPD ...

    You also appear to have forgotten than the Conservatives had rather more MPs three months ago, and are now led by a deeply damaged leader that has led to the current threader talking about who will replace her.

    Yep, serious damage to the party.
    Not caused by anything other than May's campaign strategy.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It's remarkable how pbers are more interested in historical debates about statues than about neo-Nazis killing people.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Used 1831

    https://socialtextjournal.org/original-sin-slavery-and-american-innocence/

    And very two-edged: the point about *original* sin being that you can't do anything about it, so why bother trying?
    I think the point about original sin is that it taints all of Adam's descendants - and slavery bedevils political discussions and race relations in the US today
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Nigelb said:

    The idea is a great deal older than that.
    Senator Charles Sumner, opposing Texas’ admission to the union, as a slave state, in 1845:

    “Slavery, we are speciously told by those who seek to defend it, is not our original sin. It was entailed upon us, so we are instructed, by our ancestors; and the responsibility is often, with exultation, thrown upon the mother country...”
    I am more cynical about Obama's interest in Senatorial debates from the 1840s than you...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    It's remarkable how pbers are more interested in historical debates about statues than about neo-Nazis killing people.

    Because we all agree that neo-Nazis (or anyone) killing people is a bad thing?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,476

    Popular belief on PB doesn't even understand the current wings of the Tory party: it's not those who voted Leave vs those who voted Remain; it's those who want to implement the referendum result vs those who don't.
    How many people who campaigned for Leave are in the latter category?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Charles said:

    You realise he was just quoting the West Wing?

    Lord Marbury : "The darkness in our sunshine, the shadow in our souls, the biblical sins of the fathers. For Americans, it's slavery. Slavery is your original sin. That and your unfortunate history with your aborigines."
    Toby : "Native Americans."
    Lord Marbury : "For the English, it's Ireland."
    Lord Marbury doesn't half talk nonsense about Ireland - probably because the script was written by an American.

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    619 said:
    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,378
    Mr. Meeks, I thought the question of historical figures and statues was a more nuanced and interesting debate than "Murdering people with cars is wrong."

    For the record: murdering people with cars is wrong.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Charles said:

    Because we all agree that neo-Nazis (or anyone) killing people is a bad thing?
    There's rather more to it than that.

    The way in which extreme rightwing views have been allowed into the mainstream so that the weekend's events are now unsurprising is surely worth more discussion.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    Popular belief on PB doesn't even understand the current wings of the Tory party: it's not those who voted Leave vs those who voted Remain; it's those who want to implement the referendum result vs those who don't.

    That is also true - and the latter group is small.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    I'm far from convinced that the average Conservative member is saner now than they were in 2001. All the evidence points to the contrary.
    Exactly. I am astounded that a party that I always viewed as being at least sensible (if a bit heartless) has become such a collection of fantasists. The transformation is incredible. I can also understand James Chapman's drive for the "Democrats" simply because there is nowhere for centrist voters to go. Labour is way out to the left and the Tories are charging right.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    There's rather more to it than that.

    The way in which extreme rightwing views have been allowed into the mainstream so that the weekend's events are now unsurprising is surely worth more discussion.
    https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/896798322236805122
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,476

    That is also true - and the latter group is small.
    Small, and uncannily congruent with the group of people who understand the implications.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,113

    Not caused by anything other than May's campaign strategy.
    And if the Conservatives believe that, they'll lose worse next time. May's campaign was poor, but IMO not as poor as people make it. It's an excuse for the disaster, and only a very partial one.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,953

    Precisely - c/f Cameron. You have hit the nail on the head.

    Also, I think there will be a full member-wide election this time. I think the most likely scenario is Theresa May bowing out with grace in 2019, having delivered Brexit (in nominal terms at least). She'll probably remain as caretaker leader and PM whilst we have the leadership contest.
    I'd be amazed if the Tory membership shunned a Rees-Mogg leadership given the choice. Let's face it, Brexit is going to disappoint and they'll be desperate for something fantastical and revolutionary to put in its place. Mogg fits the bill. Abolishing income tax and high-rise tower blocks - he represents an annulment of the post-war consensus that the vast majority of the hard Right crave. Mogg will be their Trump.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,378
    Mrs C, I half-agree. There is plenty of room for a new party. However, Chapman's approach (silly tweets aside) is to make it a wholly EU-phile party, both aping the Lib Dems *and* massively reducing its potential reach.

    A new party could work. The Eurosausage Party is perhaps not the optimal approach.
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784
    Ishmael_Z said:

    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
    You saying the Nazis should be armed?
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784

    It's remarkable how pbers are more interested in historical debates about statues than about neo-Nazis killing people.

    Not that surprising to me.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Mr. Meeks, I thought the question of historical figures and statues was a more nuanced and interesting debate than "Murdering people with cars is wrong."

    For the record: murdering people with cars is wrong.

    But bicyclists are fair game.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    That is also true - and the latter group is small.
    But incredibly noisy.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The Conservative Party is wholly united. None of them have a clue how to implement Brexit.
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784
    Because of false equivalency.

    Same way saying that the people who decided to remove the statues are the same as the violent Nazis.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    619 said:

    You saying the Nazis should be armed?
    The depth and breadth of your ignorance of all things American suggests to me that you should adopt a different chosen specialized subject.

    Short version: google it.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    And if the Conservatives believe that, they'll lose worse next time. May's campaign was poor, but IMO not as poor as people make it. It's an excuse for the disaster, and only a very partial one.
    The "disaster" of winning the election?

    What happened is that May made two mistakes: she didn't do any debates and she trusted the people to accept there were some hard decisions to be made.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    [snip]. Labour is way out to the left and the Tories are charging right.

    In what way are the Tories 'charging right'? I don't see that at all, if anything Theresa May has taken a position rather to the left of Cameron and Osborne, although the election result means she won't be able to achieve anything much.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    619 said:

    You saying the Nazis should be armed?
    The Nazis were disarmed in 1945.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/896798322236805122
    Coming next from Brendan O'Neill: Why The Jews Had It Coming To Them.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    There's rather more to it than that.

    The way in which extreme rightwing views have been allowed into the mainstream so that the weekend's events are now unsurprising is surely worth more discussion.
    Sure, but at the moment any discussion is met by accusations of racism of being closet neo-Nazis or Brexiteers, so difficult to have an interesting debate.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,378
    Mr. Quidder, reminds me of some Twitter travails I had about white/male writers.

    https://twitter.com/MorrisF1/status/886250350948364288

    Anyway, I must be off.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    619 said:

    Because of false equivalency.
    No,because she was a useless candidate who couldn't articulate a single positive reason to vote for her.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Coming next from Brendan O'Neill: Why The Jews Had It Coming To Them.
    Pathetic.

    Thanks, Edmund!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612
    Charles said:

    Because we all agree that neo-Nazis (or anyone) killing people is a bad thing?
    Charles from last night:
    "Basically turning up to shout aggressively at a bunch of thick tattooed blokes on steroids is unlikely to promote peace and harmony. If you tried that in my local you'd deserve everything you got"

    So Nazis killing people is a bad thing, but the women who was killed deserved it for protesting?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Exactly. I am astounded that a party that I always viewed as being at least sensible (if a bit heartless) has become such a collection of fantasists. The transformation is incredible. I can also understand James Chapman's drive for the "Democrats" simply because there is nowhere for centrist voters to go. Labour is way out to the left and the Tories are charging right.
    How are they "charging right"?

    I can't think of a single radical policy they have at the moment.
    (disregarding Brexit which was forced on them by the public)
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,953

    Coming next from Brendan O'Neill: Why The Jews Had It Coming To Them.
    Yes, that's any extremely dark piece by Brendan. The Charlottesville incidents have reflected very badly on his man Trump, so I guess he's just lashing out.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/896798322236805122
    Brendan O'Neill doesn't half talk some shite. The idea that white supremacy is some new thing in America that is a reaction to divisive safe spacing liberal blah blah blah is such transparently obvious bollocks that I can't even begin to start taking it apart.

    It defeats itself.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    GeoffM said:

    How are they "charging right"?

    I can't think of a single radical policy they have at the moment.
    (disregarding Brexit which was forced on them by the public)
    That also works if you omit the word "radical". Bunch of directionless puddings.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Still waiting for someone to give a decent analysis of why an intelligent chap who is is an excellent communicator with well founded political beliefs shouldn't be Con leader.

    "Cos he's posh n Brexit" is about it so far.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,113

    The "disaster" of winning the election?

    What happened is that May made two mistakes: she didn't do any debates and she trusted the people to accept there were some hard decisions to be made.
    I refer you to my previous post. It was far more complex - and interesting - than that. Blaming May for the loss is only partially true.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612
    On a new topic - but still related to the politics of identity - this is sort of amusing/bizarre:

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/aug/14/australias-deputy-pm-barnaby-joyce-revealed-to-be-a-new-zealander
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,953
    TGOHF said:

    Still waiting for someone to give a decent analysis of why an intelligent chap who is is an excellent communicator with well founded political beliefs shouldn't be Con leader.

    "Cos he's posh n Brexit" is about it so far.

    Because he looks like the sort of person who wears sock suspenders.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,183

    Because he looks like the sort of person who wears sock suspenders.
    With such dazzling political insight it is no wonder Remainers lost the referendum.
  • While Trump is rightly getting it in the neck for failing to disavow a load of white supremacists, with a statement that he could have cut and paste from Jezza's response to Venezuela, we now have this...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/14/labour-mp-aide-john-mcdonnell-condemned-wishing-fidel-castro/
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Ishmael_Z said:

    That also works if you omit the word "radical". Bunch of directionless puddings.
    Agree completely. Which is why I don't understand this "charging right" idea.

    They're right in the middle of the soggy middle ground swamp at the moment and its taking us nowhere.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    I refer you to my previous post. It was far more complex - and interesting - than that. Blaming May for the loss is only partially true.
    Well, your last post said "they'll lose worse next time", which implies that they lost last time. Which isn't true.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,890
    Charles said:

    I am more cynical about Obama's interest in Senatorial debates from the 1840s than you...
    I'm willing to admit you're more cynical...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Mortimer said:

    With such dazzling political insight it is no wonder Remainers lost the referendum.
    Being white, male and posh is 3 strikes too many for some.

    Face it if JRM was in the LDs he'd be a shoe in with that CV - although perhaps too young.
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784
    Alistair said:

    Brendan O'Neill doesn't half talk some shite. The idea that white supremacy is some new thing in America that is a reaction to divisive safe spacing liberal blah blah blah is such transparently obvious bollocks that I can't even begin to start taking it apart.

    It defeats itself.
    He's just a parody now. When something terrible is done by a rightwinger, he just comes out with the same crap blaming the left.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,183
    TGOHF said:

    Being white, male and posh is 3 strikes too many for some.

    Face it if JRM was in the LDs he'd be a shoe in with that CV - although perhaps too young.
    Surely hasn't predicted a sufficient number of recessions, either?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,617

    Because he looks like the sort of person who wears sock suspenders.
    He used to turn up to junk trips in Hong Kong in a tweed jacket, cords, tie and scarf. In Hong Kong.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    In what way are the Tories 'charging right'? I don't see that at all, if anything Theresa May has taken a position rather to the left of Cameron and Osborne, although the election result means she won't be able to achieve anything much.
    In that case, perhaps I am charging left, but not as fast as Labour? ;)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rkrkrk said:

    Charles from last night:
    "Basically turning up to shout aggressively at a bunch of thick tattooed blokes on steroids is unlikely to promote peace and harmony. If you tried that in my local you'd deserve everything you got"

    So Nazis killing people is a bad thing, but the women who was killed deserved it for protesting?
    No: what I said, not what you think I said.

    Counter-protests are almost always counter-productive and tend to lead to violence. There are many people who go on them who do not intend this to be the case, but unfortunately they are often hijacked by anarchists and other people spoiling for a fight.

    I'm not trying to defend the alleged murderer's actions in any way, whatsoever. I have asked whether the riot - which was in part caused by the counter protesters - was a contributory factor to *this* particular murder. (I suspect that, if not this time, then he would have done the same thing on a future occasion unless he was locked up beforehand.)

    But I doubt we will agree, so I suggest we stop boring people.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,617

    In what way are the Tories 'charging right'? I don't see that at all, if anything Theresa May has taken a position rather to the left of Cameron and Osborne, although the election result means she won't be able to achieve anything much.
    Flailing around to the Brexit result as it may have been, kite flying as it may have been, and misinterpreted as it may have been, looking to record the number of foreign employees in the state, bringing back hunting and grammar schools, and indeed Brexit itself have all been interpreted as a move "right".
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited August 2017
    Nigelb said:

    I'm willing to admit you're more cynicalrealistic...
    fixed it for ya :smiley:
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Garden Bridge has been scrapped for good.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,953
    TGOHF said:

    Being white, male and posh is 3 strikes too many for some.

    Face it if JRM was in the LDs he'd be a shoe in with that CV - although perhaps too young.
    Nothing wrong with being white, male and posh. Though it's ironic that Dave's critics on the hard Right never shied away from using his poshness against him (price of milk etc.). Mogg's problem is that he seems to inhabit a pre-war pastoral English fantasy. It reminds me of Marie Antoinette pretending to be a shepherdess. Jezza will love it as it will make him look like a man of the people.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,612
    Off topic, I have a banana with a sticker on it saying "Cameroon".

    What next? A Blairite satsuma?


    Of course, we all know that in Tezzie, the Tories picked a lemon.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    TGOHF said:

    Being white, male and posh is 3 strikes too many for some.
    I can cope with the "white, male and posh" bit. What worries me about him is his apparent disconnection from the reality of everyday life. Scrapping income tax? It is a wonderful concept but politically and financially it is going nowhere. His other utterances in the past seem to put him somewhere in the social equivalent of the 1930s.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    In that case, perhaps I am charging left, but not as fast as Labour? ;)
    There seems to be an idea that actually implementing the referendum result is a right-wing idea, which leads to those who think it should be ignored to call themselves "centrists".
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,612
    Charles said:

    No: what I said, not what you think I said.

    Counter-protests are almost always counter-productive and tend to lead to violence. There are many people who go on them who do not intend this to be the case, but unfortunately they are often hijacked by anarchists and other people spoiling for a fight.

    I'm not trying to defend the alleged murderer's actions in any way, whatsoever. I have asked whether the riot - which was in part caused by the counter protesters - was a contributory factor to *this* particular murder. (I suspect that, if not this time, then he would have done the same thing on a future occasion unless he was locked up beforehand.)

    But I doubt we will agree, so I suggest we stop boring people.
    Yes let's leave it there.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    There seems to be an idea that actually implementing the referendum result is a right-wing idea, which leads to those who think it should be ignored to call themselves "centrists".
    It is not the implementation of the result, although it is not being implemented at all well, but the accompanying rhetoric that gets airtime seems to be predominately from the more extreme wing of the party.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    TOPPING said:

    Flailing around to the Brexit result as it may have been, kite flying as it may have been, and misinterpreted as it may have been, looking to record the number of foreign employees in the state, bringing back hunting and grammar schools, and indeed Brexit itself have all been interpreted as a move "right".
    Yes. Perception is everything.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    So far:

    89 likes on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/demarcationdesign/

    31 followers on Twitter: https://twitter.com/DMRCTN_Design

    And 23 on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/demarcationdesign/

    So, still a way to go.....
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    It is not the implementation of the result, although it is not being implemented at all well, but the accompanying rhetoric that gets airtime seems to be predominately from the more extreme wing of the party.
    "Seems to be" allows for an awful lot of confirmation bias, to be fair.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited August 2017
    TOPPING said:

    Flailing around to the Brexit result as it may have been, kite flying as it may have been, and misinterpreted as it may have been, looking to record the number of foreign employees in the state, bringing back hunting and grammar schools, and indeed Brexit itself have all been interpreted as a move "right".

    Against that, we've had talk of more regulation of electricity prices, a big emphasis on the 'JAMs', the proposed changes to social care, proposals to reduce payments to wealthy pensioners, changes to make National Insurance more equitable, vague proposals to increase worker participation in company boards, proposals to curb executive pay, and so on. Overall, it's certainly not a lurch to the right; perhaps a smidgen of a move rightwards on social issues but a move slightly leftwards on economic issues.

    Of course, it's largely academic now, since most of Theresa May's programme has been abandoned..
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,617

    Off topic, I have a banana with a sticker on it saying "Cameroon".

    What next? A Blairite satsuma?

    Of course, we all know that in Tezzie, the Tories picked a lemon.

    A Lucasian watermelon?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Nothing wrong with being white, male and posh. Though it's ironic that Dave's critics on the hard Right never shied away from using his poshness against him (price of milk etc.). Mogg's problem is that he seems to inhabit a pre-war pastoral English fantasy. It reminds me of Marie Antoinette pretending to be a shepherdess. Jezza will love it as it will make him look like a man of the people.
    Jezza living in a cold war pastoral Soviet fantasy nearly won him the election.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,617
    edited August 2017

    Against that, we've had talk of more regulation of electricity prices, a big emphasis on the 'JAMs', the proposed changes to social care, proposals to reduce payments to wealthy pensioners, changes to make National Insurance more equitable, vague proposals to increase worker participation in company boards, proposals to curb executive pay, and so on. Overall, it's certainly not a lurch to the right; perhaps a smidgen of a move rightwards on social issues but a move slightly leftwards on economic issues.

    Of course, it's largely academic now, since most of Theresa May's programme has been abandoned..
    I don't think the JAMs idea lasted to the election, did it?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    I can cope with the "white, male and posh" bit. What worries me about him is his apparent disconnection from the reality of everyday life. Scrapping income tax? It is a wonderful concept but politically and financially it is going nowhere. His other utterances in the past seem to put him somewhere in the social equivalent of the 1930s.
    I googled JRM and scrapping income tax and came up with nothing.

    Did you mean Stamp Duty ?
  • https://twitter.com/spikedonline/status/896798322236805122
    Whether something is racism or not has always depended on the race of the racist.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,890
    TOPPING said:

    A Lucasian watermelon?
    On topic, a Moggsian plum.

    A native English fruit that's a bit up itself...
  • glwglw Posts: 10,304
    edited August 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
    I'm fairly confident that the governor is exaggerating. After the Iraq drawdown police forces across America have been given all sorts of surplus military equipment. Tiny little police forces in the middle of nowhere can have weapons and vehicles that would more commonly be used for war-fighting thanks to the 1033 program.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,890
    Charles said:

    fixed it for ya :smiley:
    I'll concede that man who confuses his own prejudices with realism is probably not a cynic; certainly not a sceptic.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,127

    Coming next from Brendan O'Neill: Why The Jews Had It Coming To Them.
    I'm guessing that the Spiked/Big Bren line on rape is that the tyranny of short-skirted, tipsy young lassies turns blokes into rapists.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,612
    In an act of Socialist solidarity I have eaten my Cameroon banana. I've now moved on to a pair of greengages that appear to have no political affiliation, except for their obvious, er, greenness.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,580
    edited August 2017
    glw said:

    I'm fairly confident that the governor is exaggerating. After the Iraq drawdown police forces across America have been given all sorts of surplus military equipment. Tiny little police forces in the middle of nowhere can have weapons and vehicles that would more commonly be used for war-fighting thanks to the 1033 program.
    The second amendment does not of course stipulate what kind of arms. That has by long-standing convention been left to the State. This is why you don't see privately owned tanks on lawns and thermonuclear devices at the bottom of suburban gardens. The State in its wisdom draws a line on what arms it will and will not allow its citizens to bear. Most sensible and civilised States do likewise, although there is huge variation in where that line is drawn from State to State.

    In Europe, we tend to be a bit shocked at the type of arsenals allowed to US citizens by its government. In doing so, we are apt to forget the Nation's history and its right for self-determination. There are no votes in Gun Control in the USA. Nothing's going to change any time soon.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,533
    TGOHF said:

    Jezza living in a cold war pastoral Soviet fantasy nearly won him the election.

    Jacob Rees Mogg v Jeremy Corbyn would give you the choice of either returning to the 1950s or the 1970s
  • Alistair said:

    Brendan O'Neill doesn't half talk some shite. The idea that white supremacy is some new thing in America that is a reaction to divisive safe spacing liberal blah blah blah is such transparently obvious bollocks that I can't even begin to start taking it apart.

    It defeats itself.
    Just the left reaping what they have sowen, and they don't like it and like you are in denial.

    Its a natural consequence of the BS the left have been propagating for decades, and finally the right have decided ok we'll play you at your game. Lefties are now crying foul now as their tactics are being used against them. The Trump presidency being one manifestation of this.

    I don't like the results, but its amusing watching the Left & their establishment lose their collective minds.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,082
    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg v Jeremy Corbyn would give you the choice of either returning to the 1950s or the 1970s
    LibDem landslide?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,612
    Offering evens on both main parties:

    a) Looks generous
    b) Indicates that Lads have no idea who will win.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Offering evens on both main parties:

    a) Looks generous
    b) Indicates that Lads have no idea who will win.
    Evens shows this market is for PR not profit. No bookie will make money offering evens on the toss of a coin. Betting on an actual coin toss in cricket matches is 10/11 each of two.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,890

    In an act of Socialist solidarity I have eaten my Cameroon banana. I've now moved on to a pair of greengages that appear to have no political affiliation, except for their obvious, er, greenness.

    "no political affiliation..."
    Not entirely, as too many greengages will definitely lead to a dose of the trots...
  • glwglw Posts: 10,304

    In Europe, we tend to be a bit shocked at the type of arsenals allowed to US citizens by its government. In doing so, we are apt to forget the Nation's history and its right for self-determination. There are no votes in Gun Control in the USA. Nothing's going to change any time soon.

    I don't dispute that citizens can be heavily armed, I simply think that the claim that the State Police are out-gunned is likely to be an exaggeration. American police have been given a huge amount of surplus military hardware, and are also recipients of billions of dollars of funding for equipment since the formation of the DHS. The ongoing militarization of American policing has been a hot topic for many years now.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Evens shows this market is for PR not profit. No bookie will make money offering evens on the toss of a coin. Betting on an actual coin toss in cricket matches is 10/11 each of two.
    Wouldn't they make money on sweeping the field though?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,342

    LOL. And who pi**ed off before the referendum? The Euroloons to UKIP. They actually flounced and have seriously damaged the party.

    A healthy Conservative party, just a like a healthy Labour party, needs to appeal to as broad a constituency as possible.
    I can remember, however, frequently being told at various points "why don't you sod off, and join UKIP?" So, I did, for a time.
This discussion has been closed.