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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This might be a bit late but PBers are invited to a post GE17

SystemSystem Posts: 11,687
edited July 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This might be a bit late but PBers are invited to a post GE17 event tomorrow at the London Olympic Park

We welcome @IpsosMORI @ComRes @Survation @GfK & @MSmithsonPB to our free #GE2017 event tomorrow https://t.co/c9wNy14tPn #polling #NewMR #Mrx pic.twitter.com/5I8leh53sk

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  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    Should be fun.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    Second!
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    "There is no fee"

    LOL. If Sophy Ridge isn't going I'll give it a miss.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Jacob Rees Mogg is extremely well spoken and highly articulate. We tend to equate those traits with being very smart in the UK. See also Dan Hannan and Boris Johnson, for example. It has caused us no end of trouble over the years.

    If Rees Mogg were to be elected Conservative party leader, it would be a very clear signal that the Tories were retreating from the 21st century. Very much like Corbyn's Labour party.

    Yes. JRM wrote the following in The Telegraph in 2013

    "It is widely accepted that carbon dioxide emissions have risen but the effect on the climate remains much debated while the computer modelling that has been done to date has not proved especially accurate. Sceptics remember that computer modelling was behind the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the global financial crisis; common sense dictates that if the Meteorological Office cannot forecast the next season’s weather with any success it is ambitious to predict what will happen decades ahead. However, even if all their fears are right the influence of the United Kingdom is limited. This country is responsible for under 2 per cent of global emissions so even if the British freeze and industry is made uncompetitive it will not save the world."

    Now, while this may sound clever and convincing when delivered in JRM's plummy tones, it is actually riddled with non-sequiturs, misunderstandings and logical inconsistencies. He clearly doesn't have the slightest idea what he's talking about, but people still lap it up because he talks so nicely.
    It isn't, actually. Or if it is, identify one each of non-sequiturs, misunderstandings and logical inconsistencies.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    I'll be in Tatton Park, Tatton Wednesday.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    As Mrs May clearly isn't up to the job, she should hand the reins over to Dave.

    https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/887303451088109568
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Pulpstar said:

    I'll be in Tatton Park, Tatton Wednesday.

    Is Sophy Ridge there instead?
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969
    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Tory backbenchers.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Off-topic:

    The following is an interesting potential new angle to the Grenfell Tower tragedy:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40632705

    An irrelevance, or another link in the causal chain?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,969

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Thanks to you both!
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    You think it's a bluff?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    GeoffM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll be in Tatton Park, Tatton Wednesday.

    Is Sophy Ridge there instead?
    Monty Don I'm afraid.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited July 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    I'll be in Tatton Park, Tatton Wednesday.

    I visited Tatton Park ... oooh .... 30 years ago must be.

    Why are you going, if I may as? Event?

    Edit: Ah, Monty Don. Cheers. Enjoy.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    GeoffM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll be in Tatton Park, Tatton Wednesday.

    I visited Tatton Park ... oooh .... 30 years ago must be.

    Why are you going, if I may as? Event?

    Edit: Ah, Monty Don. Cheers. Enjoy.
    Flower show !
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Hope you have a nice time tomorrow.

    F1: my mid-season review, full of splendid graphs, is up here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/mid-season-review-2017.html
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,946
    edited July 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Boris to Leader of the House. Could then move Hammond to FS and Green to Chancellor.

    Ought to solve a few problems.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Unfortunately for her and him sacking people adds a few more names to the 48, assuming that number hasn't been already reached.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg is extremely well spoken and highly articulate. We tend to equate those traits with being very smart in the UK. See also Dan Hannan and Boris Johnson, for example. It has caused us no end of trouble over the years.

    If Rees Mogg were to be elected Conservative party leader, it would be a very clear signal that the Tories were retreating from the 21st century. Very much like Corbyn's Labour party.

    Yes. JRM wrote the following in The Telegraph in 2013

    "It is widely accepted that carbon dioxide emissions have risen but the effect on the climate remains much debated while the computer modelling that has been done to date has not proved especially accurate. Sceptics remember that computer modelling was behind the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the global financial crisis; common sense dictates that if the Meteorological Office cannot forecast the next season’s weather with any success it is ambitious to predict what will happen decades ahead. However, even if all their fears are right the influence of the United Kingdom is limited. This country is responsible for under 2 per cent of global emissions so even if the British freeze and industry is made uncompetitive it will not save the world."

    Now, while this may sound clever and convincing when delivered in JRM's plummy tones, it is actually riddled with non-sequiturs, misunderstandings and logical inconsistencies. He clearly doesn't have the slightest idea what he's talking about, but people still lap it up because he talks so nicely.
    It isn't, actually. Or if it is, identify one each of non-sequiturs, misunderstandings and logical inconsistencies.
    I'm not a climate scientist but here are a few I think:

    There's actually overwhelming consensus on climate change among scientists.

    Computer modelling for Lehman Brothers is not the same thing as for climate and isn't comparable.

    Predicting the weather is a different challenge to predicting the climate in decades time.

    My analogy would be - my doctor can't tell me when smoking is going to give me cancer, so why should I believe him/her that's it's bad for my health/will kill me?

    Saying we will only do X if it saves the world by itself is quite a high bar to clear.
    If something makes a 2% contribution to saving the world... We should do it!

  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Unfortunately for her and him sacking people adds a few more names to the 48, assuming that number hasn't been already reached.
    you mean there are >48 self serving bonkers MP's in the Tory fold?
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    @Topping - Rees Mogg

    JRM is an Old Etonian from a family with long connections in the City. He has clearly been able to use all the very big advantages he was born with to his benefit. Good luck to him. He would have been a fool not to do so. And I am certainly not suggesting that he is a fool. Whether he would have been able to do it all from scratch is a moot point - we will never know.

    As for moving the Tories back from the 21st century, he gives every indication of wishing that society had stopped developing in around 1955. His position on a number of issues strongly indicates that. A lot of people think he is funny and entertaining because of that. I imagine that is because right now he is powerless and, therefore, powerless.

    Leadership? Like Corbyn he has been a serial rebel from the backbenches and has no ministerial experience whatsoever. My guess is that with fellow MPs neither of those things would be to his advantage - eg, see the recent Treasury committee chairmanship vote. However, should he manage to get his name in front of Tory members, like Corbyn with Labour members he probably reflects majority views. Whether those are majority views in the country is another matter entirely.
  • Options
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg is extremely well spoken and highly articulate. We tend to equate those traits with being very smart in the UK. See also Dan Hannan and Boris Johnson, for example. It has caused us no end of trouble over the years.

    If Rees Mogg were to be elected Conservative party leader, it would be a very clear signal that the Tories were retreating from the 21st century. Very much like Corbyn's Labour party.

    Yes. JRM wrote the following in The Telegraph in 2013

    "It is widely accepted that carbon dioxide emissions have risen but the effect on the climate remains much debated while the computer modelling that has been done to date has not proved especially accurate. Sceptics remember that computer modelling was behind the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the global financial crisis; common sense dictates that if the Meteorological Office cannot forecast the next season’s weather with any success it is ambitious to predict what will happen decades ahead. However, even if all their fears are right the influence of the United Kingdom is limited. This country is responsible for under 2 per cent of global emissions so even if the British freeze and industry is made uncompetitive it will not save the world."

    Now, while this may sound clever and convincing when delivered in JRM's plummy tones, it is actually riddled with non-sequiturs, misunderstandings and logical inconsistencies. He clearly doesn't have the slightest idea what he's talking about, but people still lap it up because he talks so nicely.
    It isn't, actually. Or if it is, identify one each of non-sequiturs, misunderstandings and logical inconsistencies.
    Take, for example:

    "...common sense dictates that if the Meteorological Office cannot forecast the next season’s weather with any success it is ambitious to predict what will happen decades ahead."

    It simply doesn't follow that it you can't predict climate in the long term just because you can't predict weather in the short term. For example, no-one cannot predict with any accuracy whether it will be raining or not 2 weeks tomorrow, but we can be virtually certain that it will be cooler in 6 months time than it is now. There are sound physical reasons why the Earth will be warmer in 50 years' time (enhanced greenhouse effect) just as there are sound physical reasons why the UK will be cooler in 6 months (the orientation of the Earth towards the sun).

    JRM's "common sense" is based on the erroneous assumption that climate forecasting is just long term weather forecasting.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg is extremely well spoken and highly articulate. We tend to equate those traits with being very smart in the UK. See also Dan Hannan and Boris Johnson, for example. It has caused us no end of trouble over the years.

    If Rees Mogg were to be elected Conservative party leader, it would be a very clear signal that the Tories were retreating from the 21st century. Very much like Corbyn's Labour party.

    Yes. JRM wrote the following in The Telegraph in 2013

    "It is widely accepted that carbon dioxide emissions have risen but the effect on the climate remains much debated while the computer modelling that has been done to date has not proved especially accurate. Sceptics remember that computer modelling was behind the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the global financial crisis; common sense dictates that if the Meteorological Office cannot forecast the next season’s weather with any success it is ambitious to predict what will happen decades ahead. However, even if all their fears are right the influence of the United Kingdom is limited. This country is responsible for under 2 per cent of global emissions so even if the British freeze and industry is made uncompetitive it will not save the world."

    Now, while this may sound clever and convincing when delivered in JRM's plummy tones, it is actually riddled with non-sequiturs, misunderstandings and logical inconsistencies. He clearly doesn't have the slightest idea what he's talking about, but people still lap it up because he talks so nicely.
    It isn't, actually. Or if it is, identify one each of non-sequiturs, misunderstandings and logical inconsistencies.
    Here is one inconsistency:

    "Common sense dictates that if the Meteorological Office cannot forecast the next season’s weather with any success it is ambitious to predict what will happen decades ahead."

    If I cannot predict next season's weather, it does not follow that I cannot predict average quantities (like global temperature) for next season, or seasons after that. I may well be able to predict the trend, but not the fluctuations around the trend.

    Here is another:

    "Sceptics remember that computer modelling was behind the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the global financial crisis"

    Even if some computer modelling of financial forecasting is poorly done, it does not follow that computer modelling of average climatic conditions is poorly done.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,632
    Pulpstar said:

    GeoffM said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I'll be in Tatton Park, Tatton Wednesday.

    Is Sophy Ridge there instead?
    Monty Don I'm afraid.
    No Rachel de Thame?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. rkrkrk, there's a difference between a chemical being carcinogenic and prone to causing genetic mutations (losing contact inhibition) in cells and the far more complicated and uncertain nature of climate.

    Mr. Mortimer, Boris to the heart of the sun, via space cannon, would be a preferable route to success.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    Mr. rkrkrk, there's a difference between a chemical being carcinogenic and prone to causing genetic mutations (losing contact inhibition) in cells and the far more complicated and uncertain nature of climate.

    Mr. Mortimer, Boris to the heart of the sun, via space cannon, would be a preferable route to success.

    Sure - it was just an analogy.
    Feersumenjineeya came up with a better example anyway.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079
    Mortimer said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Boris to Leader of the House. Could then move Hammond to FS and Green to Chancellor.

    Ought to solve a few problems.
    That would surely cause Leadsom to wield the knife and then it would be a free-for-all.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,931
    edited July 2017
    @TOPPING FPT

    TOPPING said:
    » show previous quotes
    Which would I think drive peoples' sympathy to him.


    isam said
    Yes I'd say so. The Corbynites wouldn't be able to resist. JRM would be the perfect bait to expose the hard lefts true colours
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    Mortimer said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Boris to Leader of the House. Could then move Hammond to FS and Green to Chancellor.

    Ought to solve a few problems.
    Hammond's already been FS.

    Best thing would be if the Leavers stopped smearing Hammond to nobble him before the leadership contest.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg is extremely well spoken and highly articulate. We tend to equate those traits with being very smart in the UK. See also Dan Hannan and Boris Johnson, for example. It has caused us no end of trouble over the years.

    If Rees Mogg were to be elected Conservative party leader, it would be a very clear signal that the Tories were retreating from the 21st century. Very much like Corbyn's Labour party.

    Yes. JRM wrote the following in The Telegraph in 2013

    "It is widely accepted that carbon dioxide emissions have risen but the effect on the i>

    Now, while this may sound clever and convincing when delivered in JRM's plummy tones, it is actually riddled with non-sequiturs, misunderstandings and logical inconsistencies. He clearly doesn't have the slightest idea what he's talking about, but people still lap it up because he talks so nicely.
    It isn't, actually. Or if it is, identify one each of non-sequiturs, misunderstandings and logical inconsistencies.
    Here is one inconsistency:

    "Common sense dictates that if the Meteorological Office cannot forecast the next season’s weather with any success it is ambitious to predict what will happen decades ahead."

    If I cannot predict next season's weather, it does not follow that I cannot predict average quantities (like global temperature) for next season, or seasons after that. I may well be able to predict the trend, but not the fluctuations around the trend.

    Here is another:

    "Sceptics remember that computer modelling was behind the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the global financial crisis"

    Even if some computer modelling of financial forecasting is poorly done, it does not follow that computer modelling of average climatic conditions is poorly done.
    I took over a computer systems department in the 1980s to find them trying to model the weather in Zanzibar so as to forecast the clove crop there and thence the sales of Kretek cigarettes (containing cloves) in Indonesia the following season - so we could forecast the balance of non Kretek cigarette sales in Indonesia the following year.

    I stopped the project.
  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Mortimer said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Boris to Leader of the House. Could then move Hammond to FS and Green to Chancellor.

    Ought to solve a few problems.
    Hammond's already been FS.

    Best thing would be if the Leavers stopped smearing Hammond to nobble him before the leadership contest.
    Might be a good idea if Hammond stopped hinting at stopping/delaying Brexit as well
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481

    Mortimer said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Boris to Leader of the House. Could then move Hammond to FS and Green to Chancellor.

    Ought to solve a few problems.
    Hammond's already been FS.

    Best thing would be if the Leavers stopped smearing Hammond to nobble him before the leadership contest.
    Might be a good idea if Hammond stopped hinting at stopping/delaying Brexit as well
    He's not though. Next.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Jacob Rees Mogg is extremely well spoken and highly articulate. We tend to equate those traits with being very smart in the UK. See also Dan Hannan and Boris Johnson, for example. It has caused us no end of trouble over the years.

    If Rees Mogg were to be elected Conservative party leader, it would be a very clear signal that the Tories were retreating from the 21st century. Very much like Corbyn's Labour party.

    Yes. JRM wrote the following in The Telegraph in 2013

    "It is widely accepted that carbon dioxide emissions have risen but the effect on the climate remains much debated while the computer modelling that has been done to date has not proved especially accurate. Sceptics remember that computer modelling was behind the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the global financial crisis; common sense dictates that if the Meteorological Office cannot forecast the next season’s weather with any success it is ambitious to predict what will happen decades ahead. However, even if all their fears are right the influence of the United Kingdom is limited. This country is responsible for under 2 per cent of global emissions so even if the British freeze and industry is made uncompetitive it will not save the world."

    Now, while this may sound clever and convincing when delivered in JRM's plummy tones, it is actually riddled with non-sequiturs, misunderstandings and logical inconsistencies. He clearly doesn't have the slightest idea what he's talking about, but people still lap it up because he talks so nicely.
    It isn't, actually. Or if it is, identify one each of non-sequiturs, misunderstandings and logical inconsistencies.
    Here is one inconsistency:

    "Common sense dictates that if the Meteorological Office cannot forecast the next season’s weather with any success it is ambitious to predict what will happen decades ahead."

    If I cannot predict next season's weather, it does not follow that I cannot predict average quantities (like global temperature) for next season, or seasons after that. I may well be able to predict the trend, but not the fluctuations around the trend.

    Here is another:

    "Sceptics remember that computer modelling was behind the collapse of Lehman Brothers and the global financial crisis"

    Even if some computer modelling of financial forecasting is poorly done, it does not follow that computer modelling of average climatic conditions is poorly done.
    Right wing heir to coal mining fortune sceptical about climate change? Who could have predicted that?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079

    Mortimer said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Boris to Leader of the House. Could then move Hammond to FS and Green to Chancellor.

    Ought to solve a few problems.
    Hammond's already been FS.

    Best thing would be if the Leavers stopped smearing Hammond to nobble him before the leadership contest.
    Might be a good idea if Hammond stopped hinting at stopping/delaying Brexit as well
    Do you consider a transition deal a form of delayed Brexit?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314

    @Topping - Rees Mogg

    JRM is an Old Etonian from a family with long connections in the City. He has clearly been able to use all the very big advantages he was born with to his benefit. Good luck to him. He would have been a fool not to do so. And I am certainly not suggesting that he is a fool. Whether he would have been able to do it all from scratch is a moot point - we will never know.

    As for moving the Tories back from the 21st century, he gives every indication of wishing that society had stopped developing in around 1955. His position on a number of issues strongly indicates that. A lot of people think he is funny and entertaining because of that. I imagine that is because right now he is powerless and, therefore, powerless.

    Leadership? Like Corbyn he has been a serial rebel from the backbenches and has no ministerial experience whatsoever. My guess is that with fellow MPs neither of those things would be to his advantage - eg, see the recent Treasury committee chairmanship vote. However, should he manage to get his name in front of Tory members, like Corbyn with Labour members he probably reflects majority views. Whether those are majority views in the country is another matter entirely.

    Yes those are all good points. I do disagree about the harking back to the 1950s, but only because I can't believe he actually does do that - I haven't seen anything to suggest it. Certainly you don't make money especially in emerging markets, as he has done, by not understanding and embracing the modern world as it is, and what it is likely to be in the future.

    I'm not sure about leadership. He has strength of conviction which can make up for a lot, as we have seen.

    As for the country, we have also seen that it is in the mood for a change from the identikit politicians and he is certainly not one of those, so I think his appeal would be wide and perhaps deep.

    I can't believe it will happen, but these days...who knows...!!
  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Mortimer said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Boris to Leader of the House. Could then move Hammond to FS and Green to Chancellor.

    Ought to solve a few problems.
    Hammond's already been FS.

    Best thing would be if the Leavers stopped smearing Hammond to nobble him before the leadership contest.
    Might be a good idea if Hammond stopped hinting at stopping/delaying Brexit as well
    He's not though. Next.
    Yes he is. Next.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481

    Mortimer said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Boris to Leader of the House. Could then move Hammond to FS and Green to Chancellor.

    Ought to solve a few problems.
    Hammond's already been FS.

    Best thing would be if the Leavers stopped smearing Hammond to nobble him before the leadership contest.
    Might be a good idea if Hammond stopped hinting at stopping/delaying Brexit as well
    He's not though. Next.
    Yes he is. Next.
    Source, links please.
  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Mortimer said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Boris to Leader of the House. Could then move Hammond to FS and Green to Chancellor.

    Ought to solve a few problems.
    Hammond's already been FS.

    Best thing would be if the Leavers stopped smearing Hammond to nobble him before the leadership contest.
    Might be a good idea if Hammond stopped hinting at stopping/delaying Brexit as well
    Do you consider a transition deal a form of delayed Brexit?
    Not if it has say a maximum 2-year fixed period, but an open ended transition period then yes, definitely

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/extended-brexit-transition-now-cards/

  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Mortimer said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Boris to Leader of the House. Could then move Hammond to FS and Green to Chancellor.

    Ought to solve a few problems.
    Hammond's already been FS.

    Best thing would be if the Leavers stopped smearing Hammond to nobble him before the leadership contest.
    Might be a good idea if Hammond stopped hinting at stopping/delaying Brexit as well
    He's not though. Next.
    Yes he is. Next.
    Source, links please.
    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/extended-brexit-transition-now-cards/
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314
    isam said:

    @TOPPING FPT

    TOPPING said:
    » show previous quotes
    Which would I think drive peoples' sympathy to him.


    isam said
    Yes I'd say so. The Corbynites wouldn't be able to resist. JRM would be the perfect bait to expose the hard lefts true colours

    The trap would be almost too good to be true. And they'd dive into it headfirst. I passed today whatever socialist bookshop is around Great Russell Street: "Wage War on the Tories" was the headline on just about every publication outside the shop.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    @TOPPING FPT

    TOPPING said:
    » show previous quotes
    Which would I think drive peoples' sympathy to him.


    isam said
    Yes I'd say so. The Corbynites wouldn't be able to resist. JRM would be the perfect bait to expose the hard lefts true colours

    The trap would be almost too good to be true. And they'd dive into it headfirst. I passed today whatever socialist bookshop is around Great Russell Street: "Wage War on the Tories" was the headline on just about every publication outside the shop.
    Is that the title of the new Doctor Who book?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481

    Mortimer said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Boris to Leader of the House. Could then move Hammond to FS and Green to Chancellor.

    Ought to solve a few problems.
    Hammond's already been FS.

    Best thing would be if the Leavers stopped smearing Hammond to nobble him before the leadership contest.
    Might be a good idea if Hammond stopped hinting at stopping/delaying Brexit as well
    He's not though. Next.
    Yes he is. Next.
    Source, links please.
    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/extended-brexit-transition-now-cards/
    That's not delaying/softening Brexit by your own definition.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tnewtondunn: Without going all Bruce Anderson, suspect I've just had lunch with the next PM; a 2015 intake Tory MP. V impressive, and ticks all boxes.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited July 2017
    rkrkrk said:


    I'm not a climate scientist but here are a few I think:

    There's actually overwhelming consensus on climate change among scientists.

    Computer modelling for Lehman Brothers is not the same thing as for climate and isn't comparable.

    Predicting the weather is a different challenge to predicting the climate in decades time.

    My analogy would be - my doctor can't tell me when smoking is going to give me cancer, so why should I believe him/her that's it's bad for my health/will kill me?

    Saying we will only do X if it saves the world by itself is quite a high bar to clear.
    If something makes a 2% contribution to saving the world... We should do it!

    None of that lot makes it as a substantiation of the claim that RM's piece is "riddled with..." etc etc etc. (which I appreciate wasn't your claim). Consensus among scientists is meaningless, because a. most scientists in all disciplines are engaged in very specific, low-level research problems and it just isn't their job to do big picture thinking and b. just try getting a job in climate science with toeing the official line. We have cracking empirical evidence how badly wrong the unanimous scientific party line can be from the great vitamin D debate: scientists lost professorships for suggesting that exposing yourself to the sun might not be all bad despite the risk of skin cancer. Nowadays the unanimous view is that, indeed, exposing yourself to the sun might not be all bad despite the risk of skin cancer.

    Yes, different kinds of modelling are not the same as each other, but what they have in common is that they are what you do when you can't do anything else. We know smoking causes cancer, not by taking one solitary smoker and modelling the future effects of smoking on his lungs, but from masses and masses of statistics - we have lots of smokers, lots of non-smokers, and lots of cancer patients, and we just count them up. One hears it said as a weakness of the global warming case that correlation does not imply causation, but that argument is irrelevant because correlation is where when A occurs, B also occurs on more occasions (plural) than would be expected to occur randomly. With only one world to look at, even correlation cannot happen. Sure, global warming is probably happening and many of the steps for reducing it make lots of sense anyway (e.g. solar powered cars don't emit diesel particulate thingies) but I do get bored of militant thickoes (I don't mean you) supporting the claim when they clearly have no understanding of its epistemological status. Quite simply, I bet that at lest 97% of warmist thickos would say that the evidence for it is at least as strong as the evidence that smoking causes cancer, while actually it is thousands of times less compelling.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Without going all Bruce Anderson, suspect I've just had lunch with the next PM; a 2015 intake Tory MP. V impressive, and ticks all boxes.

    Johnny Mercer.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Without going all Bruce Anderson, suspect I've just had lunch with the next PM; a 2015 intake Tory MP. V impressive, and ticks all boxes.

    Boris was in the 2015 intake. :)
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Mortimer said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...

    Boris? Gove?

    Given green light by who?
    Was reported yesterday, it is the 1922 that's given the green light.
    Charles Walker was boiling with rage on WATO, and said that "There are a few outliers, but the vast majority of members of parliament wish to see Theresa May continue as prime minister ..." Not the strongest claim in the world, and leaves open the possibility that outlierdom will shortly be breaking out all over.
    Boris to Leader of the House. Could then move Hammond to FS and Green to Chancellor.

    Ought to solve a few problems.
    Hammond's already been FS.

    Best thing would be if the Leavers stopped smearing Hammond to nobble him before the leadership contest.
    Might be a good idea if Hammond stopped hinting at stopping/delaying Brexit as well
    He's not though. Next.
    Yes he is. Next.
    Source, links please.
    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/extended-brexit-transition-now-cards/
    That's not delaying/softening Brexit by your own definition.
    What is it then?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Without going all Bruce Anderson, suspect I've just had lunch with the next PM; a 2015 intake Tory MP. V impressive, and ticks all boxes.

    Boris was in the 2015 intake. :)
    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/887320364589752321
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    ‪Boost for the England cricket team. Gary Ballance is the batting equivalent of Jade Dernbach‬

    https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/887320260696834050
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    rkrkrk said:

    Guardian reporting May given green light to sack cabinet ministers...Boris? Gove?

    Who gives the PM the green light? Normally, that is.....
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Without going all Bruce Anderson, suspect I've just had lunch with the next PM; a 2015 intake Tory MP. V impressive, and ticks all boxes.

    Johnny Mercer.
    Utter rubbish. It's self evidently Tom Pursglove.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    ‪Boost for the England cricket team. Gary Ballance is the batting equivalent of Jade Dernbach‬

    twitter.com/bbctms/status/887320260696834050

    I thought I just heard a loud cheer...
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,963
    Pulpstar from previous thread on Rees Mogg and Libertarianism.

    I agree with everything you say in your last comment. I really don't think JRM can be considered a small state advocate or Libertarian as long as he holds his religiously inspired views on various social issues and certainly not as long as he is in favour of more Government surveillance of people.

    Whilst I have not thought about it deeply it strikes me on cursory consideration that there is a direct conflict between the sort of socially conservative Catholicism that JRM believes in and the sort of Libertarianism he claims to espouse.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Without going all Bruce Anderson, suspect I've just had lunch with the next PM; a 2015 intake Tory MP. V impressive, and ticks all boxes.

    So Johnny Mercer paid for lunch and is a mate.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Is it next week when the Lib Dem coronation occurs?
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    JohnO said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Without going all Bruce Anderson, suspect I've just had lunch with the next PM; a 2015 intake Tory MP. V impressive, and ticks all boxes.

    Johnny Mercer.
    Utter rubbish. It's self evidently Tom Pursglove.
    Boris Johnson.
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    Best thing would be if the Leavers stopped smearing Hammond to nobble him before the leadership contest.

    Smearing people and nobbling rivals is the Tory way of doing things. At least nowadays. Not sure if this was always the case though. If not, when did it start?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481

    Is it next week when the Lib Dem coronation occurs?

    Deadline for nominations is 4pm Thursday. So Sir Vince could be the leader in a little over 48 hours.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481

    JohnO said:

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Without going all Bruce Anderson, suspect I've just had lunch with the next PM; a 2015 intake Tory MP. V impressive, and ticks all boxes.

    Johnny Mercer.
    Utter rubbish. It's self evidently Tom Pursglove.
    Boris Johnson.
    Tom's in London and isn't Boris still in Bruxelles?
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    ‪Boost for the England cricket team. Gary Ballance is the batting equivalent of Jade Dernbach‬

    twitter.com/bbctms/status/887320260696834050

    I thought I just heard a loud cheer...
    Bring in Scott Borthwick
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Eagles, cheers.

    Got really lucky with almost all the time (backed Swinson at 3.5 the day before Farron announced his resignation, heard that live and backed [when Swinson ruled herself out, also live] the three chaps, then backed the two chaps when Lamb ruled himself out. The only one I missed was Davey ruling himself out).

    Small stakes so I won't be making a lot, but in timing terms I was very fortunate.
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    Mr. Eagles, cheers.
    Got really lucky with almost all the time (backed Swinson at 3.5 the day before Farron announced his resignation, heard that live and backed [when Swinson ruled herself out, also live] the three chaps, then backed the two chaps when Lamb ruled himself out. The only one I missed was Davey ruling himself out).
    Small stakes so I won't be making a lot, but in timing terms I was very fortunate.
    /blockquote>

    Backing Lib Dem candidates is good for people, Mr Dancer......

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003

    Is it next week when the Lib Dem coronation occurs?

    Deadline for nominations is 4pm Thursday. So Sir Vince could be the leader in a little over 48 hours.
    New LD Education spokesperson has just been uo. Impressive and photogenic. Shoo-in for a future QT I would have thought.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Clipp, fluking my way to green results seems to be the way this year, although obviously the General Election was sub-optimal (I was lucky many of my bets were laying Lib Dems and backing Scottish Conservatives. Ended up with a small profit).
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Is it next week when the Lib Dem coronation occurs?

    Deadline for nominations is 4pm Thursday. So Sir Vince could be the leader in a little over 48 hours.

    How did St Vince get to be canonised before he was dead?

    Will he become King St Vince or St King Vince?
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    ‪Boost for the England cricket team. Gary Ballance is the batting equivalent of Jade Dernbach‬

    https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/887320260696834050


    To be replaced by Vince?

  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Is it next week when the Lib Dem coronation occurs?

    Deadline for nominations is 4pm Thursday. So Sir Vince could be the leader in a little over 48 hours.
    The LibDems have arguably been the most "united" party for the past decade. Barely a squeal of dissent throughout the last two parliaments despite dire electoral warnings, not much plotting against leaders, now a North Korean-style coronation for Sir Vince.

    Yet they've only been going backwards during that time.... so much for "the electorate rewards united parties".
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited July 2017

    Is it next week when the Lib Dem coronation occurs?

    Deadline for nominations is 4pm Thursday. So Sir Vince could be the leader in a little over 48 hours.
    New LD Education spokesperson has just been uo. Impressive and photogenic. Shoo-in for a future QT I would have thought.
    Impressive and photogenic?

    There we can disagree.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    ‪Boost for the England cricket team. Gary Ballance is the batting equivalent of Jade Dernbach‬

    https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/887320260696834050

    Very unfair,Gary ballance has scored 4 test centuries and one of the best batsman in county cricket.

    He should have batted at no 5 in the England test line up.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Danny565 said:

    Is it next week when the Lib Dem coronation occurs?

    Deadline for nominations is 4pm Thursday. So Sir Vince could be the leader in a little over 48 hours.
    The LibDems have arguably been the most "united" party for the past decade. Barely a squeal of dissent throughout the last two parliaments despite dire electoral warnings, not much plotting against leaders, now a North Korean-style coronation for Sir Vince.

    Yet they've only been going backwards during that time.... so much for "the electorate rewards united parties".
    The Lib Dems became united by driving out the free traders in favour of the protectionist EU remainers.

    Hence the fall in vote share.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    ‪Boost for the England cricket team. Gary Ballance is the batting equivalent of Jade Dernbach‬

    https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/887320260696834050

    Very unfair,Gary ballance has scored 4 test centuries and one of the best batsman in county cricket.

    He should have batted at no 5 in the England test line up.
    We have been here before with Hick...Balance is technically flawed against the best bowlers in the world.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited July 2017

    ‪Boost for the England cricket team. Gary Ballance is the batting equivalent of Jade Dernbach‬

    https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/887320260696834050


    To be replaced by Vince?

    Mark Stoneman from Surrey, I reckon.

    Jennings drops tp 3.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I see Obamacare repeal-and-replace has no become Obamacare repeal and die.
  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    GeoffM said:

    ‪Boost for the England cricket team. Gary Ballance is the batting equivalent of Jade Dernbach‬

    https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/887320260696834050


    To be replaced by Vince?

    Mark Stoneman from Surrey, I reckon.

    Jennings drops tp 3.
    Stoneman and Borthwick did well on the dreadful Durham wickets, bring them both in and leave Dawson out
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Hmm. A story about millenials and an advert, but the bit that caught my eye was this:
    "The term "millennial" is typically applied to those born between 1980 and 1999, who reached adulthood in the 21st century."

    Is it? I would've said mid-90s. Maybe younger. Is a 37 year old man really a millenial?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40640649
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003

    Is it next week when the Lib Dem coronation occurs?

    Deadline for nominations is 4pm Thursday. So Sir Vince could be the leader in a little over 48 hours.
    New LD Education spokesperson has just been uo. Impressive and photogenic. Shoo-in for a future QT I would have thought.
    Impressive and photogenic?

    There we can disagree.
    With either or both?
  • Options
    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    I give this lot we have in power a year.2018 is my bet for year of next GE,either June and September,best priced at 11-4 with Shadsy,who,if he was a true gentleman, would up it to 3-1, and Corals.Pressure for another referendum is growing but I think it will be settled by an election instead.I remain of the view that referenda are the tools of a tyrant which is why Goebbels liked them so much.The Zombie Government might just last until next year.1 point of betting bank applied.
  • Options
    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    I give this lot we have in power a year.2018 is my bet for year of next GE,either June and September,best priced at 11-4 with Shadsy,who,if he was a true gentleman, would up it to 3-1, and Corals.Pressure for another referendum is growing but I think it will be settled by an election instead.I remain of the view that referenda are the tools of a tyrant which is why Goebbels liked them so much.The Zombie Government might just last until next year.1 point of betting bank applied.

    I would have wanted a lot more than 11/4
  • Options
    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    Hmm. A story about millenials and an advert, but the bit that caught my eye was this:
    "The term "millennial" is typically applied to those born between 1980 and 1999, who reached adulthood in the 21st century."

    Is it? I would've said mid-90s. Maybe younger. Is a 37 year old man really a millenial?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40640649

    There's obviously a grey area as this is the first generation defined loosely as opposed to one defined by history (well, WW2)

    The first use of Millenial actually dates them to born in 1982 - i.e. finishing high school/secondary school in 2000.



  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726

    @Topping - Rees Mogg

    JRM is an Old Etonian from a family with long connections in the City. He has clearly been able to use all the very big advantages he was born with to his benefit. Good luck to him. He would have been a fool not to do so. And I am certainly not suggesting that he is a fool. Whether he would have been able to do it all from scratch is a moot point - we will never know.

    As for moving the Tories back from the 21st century, he gives every indication of wishing that society had stopped developing in around 1955. His position on a number of issues strongly indicates that. A lot of people think he is funny and entertaining because of that. I imagine that is because right now he is powerless and, therefore, powerless.

    Leadership? Like Corbyn he has been a serial rebel from the backbenches and has no ministerial experience whatsoever. My guess is that with fellow MPs neither of those things would be to his advantage - eg, see the recent Treasury committee chairmanship vote. However, should he manage to get his name in front of Tory members, like Corbyn with Labour members he probably reflects majority views. Whether those are majority views in the country is another matter entirely.

    There's a fanatic lurking behind JRM's personable young fogey demeanour. Corbyn us certainly left wing, associates with disreputable groups, is disloyal and probably not fit to be leader. But he doesn't impose his views on others in the same way.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,983
    edited July 2017

    Off-topic:

    The following is an interesting potential new angle to the Grenfell Tower tragedy:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40632705

    An irrelevance, or another link in the causal chain?

    My explain why the Fridge went up in smoke, so probably another link...
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    isamisam Posts: 40,931

    GeoffM said:

    ‪Boost for the England cricket team. Gary Ballance is the batting equivalent of Jade Dernbach‬

    https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/887320260696834050


    To be replaced by Vince?

    Mark Stoneman from Surrey, I reckon.

    Jennings drops tp 3.
    Stoneman and Borthwick did well on the dreadful Durham wickets, bring them both in and leave Dawson out
    Haseeb Hameed should open
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Paris, hmm. I'd not call someone of that age a millennial, though.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    Mr. Paris, hmm. I'd not call someone of that age a millennial, though.

    fwiw, I'd agree with you (a bit) as a 36 year old who is very much not a millenial. The *other* turning point would be 1979-81(ish) with the breakdown of post-war consensus. But that, I think, had more effect on the people who were already adults then (which would be Generation X).

    As said, outside of WW1/depression/WW2 where there were huge societal changes, I'm not sure such 'generations' exist in the same way.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314
    FF43 said:

    @Topping - Rees Mogg

    JRM is an Old Etonian from a family with long connections in the City. He has clearly been able to use all the very big advantages he was born with to his benefit. Good luck to him. He would have been a fool not to do so. And I am certainly not suggesting that he is a fool. Whether he would have been able to do it all from scratch is a moot point - we will never know.

    As for moving the Tories back from the 21st century, he gives every indication of wishing that society had stopped developing in around 1955. His position on a number of issues strongly indicates that. A lot of people think he is funny and entertaining because of that. I imagine that is because right now he is powerless and, therefore, powerless.

    Leadership? Like Corbyn he has been a serial rebel from the backbenches and has no ministerial experience whatsoever. My guess is that with fellow MPs neither of those things would be to his advantage - eg, see the recent Treasury committee chairmanship vote. However, should he manage to get his name in front of Tory members, like Corbyn with Labour members he probably reflects majority views. Whether those are majority views in the country is another matter entirely.

    There's a fanatic lurking behind JRM's personable young fogey demeanour. Corbyn us certainly left wing, associates with disreputable groups, is disloyal and probably not fit to be leader. But he doesn't impose his views on others in the same way.
    Given a free rein, what do you imagine JRM would do?
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    FF43 said:

    @Topping - Rees Mogg

    JRM is an Old Etonian from a family with long connections in the City. He has clearly been able to use all the very big advantages he was born with to his benefit. Good luck to him. He would have been a fool not to do so. And I am certainly not suggesting that he is a fool. Whether he would have been able to do it all from scratch is a moot point - we will never know.

    As for moving the Tories back from the 21st century, he gives every indication of wishing that society had stopped developing in around 1955. His position on a number of issues strongly indicates that. A lot of people think he is funny and entertaining because of that. I imagine that is because right now he is powerless and, therefore, powerless.

    Leadership? Like Corbyn he has been a serial rebel from the backbenches and has no ministerial experience whatsoever. My guess is that with fellow MPs neither of those things would be to his advantage - eg, see the recent Treasury committee chairmanship vote. However, should he manage to get his name in front of Tory members, like Corbyn with Labour members he probably reflects majority views. Whether those are majority views in the country is another matter entirely.

    There's a fanatic lurking behind JRM's personable young fogey demeanour. Corbyn us certainly left wing, associates with disreputable groups, is disloyal and probably not fit to be leader. But he doesn't impose his views on others in the same way.
    You don't rate him?

    Perfect, he must be doing something right.
  • Options
    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    "But he doesn't impose his views on others in the same way."

    wait.

    what?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822

    I give this lot we have in power a year.2018 is my bet for year of next GE,either June and September,best priced at 11-4 with Shadsy,who,if he was a true gentleman, would up it to 3-1, and Corals.Pressure for another referendum is growing but I think it will be settled by an election instead.I remain of the view that referenda are the tools of a tyrant which is why Goebbels liked them so much.The Zombie Government might just last until next year.1 point of betting bank applied.

    We haven't had a general election in a year ending with "8" since 1918!!!! :open_mouth:
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,726
    TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    @Topping - Rees Mogg

    JRM is an Old Etonian from a family with long connections in the City. He has clearly been able to use all the very big advantages he was born with to his benefit. Good luck to him. He would have been a fool not to do so. And I am certainly not suggesting that he is a fool. Whether he would have been able to do it all from scratch is a moot point - we will never know.

    As for moving the Tories back from the 21st century, he gives every indication of wishing that society had stopped developing in around 1955. His position on a number of issues strongly indicates that. A lot of people think he is funny and entertaining because of that. I imagine that is because right now he is powerless and, therefore, powerless.

    Leadership? Like Corbyn he has been a serial rebel from the backbenches and has no ministerial experience whatsoever. My guess is that with fellow MPs neither of those things would be to his advantage - eg, see the recent Treasury committee chairmanship vote. However, should he manage to get his name in front of Tory members, like Corbyn with Labour members he probably reflects majority views. Whether those are majority views in the country is another matter entirely.

    There's a fanatic lurking behind JRM's personable young fogey demeanour. Corbyn us certainly left wing, associates with disreputable groups, is disloyal and probably not fit to be leader. But he doesn't impose his views on others in the same way.
    Given a free rein, what do you imagine JRM would do?
    I'm not sure. I guess his would be a very ideological, conservative, backward and inward looking government. A De Valera of our times?
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Jacob Rees-Mogg was last matched for next Conservative leader at 7 on Betfair. Either the price is crazy or the Conservative party is crazy. Or both.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314
    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    FF43 said:

    @Topping - Rees Mogg

    JRM is an Old Etonian from a family with long connections in the City. He has clearly been able to use all the very big advantages he was born with to his benefit. Good luck to him. He would have been a fool not to do so. And I am certainly not suggesting that he is a fool. Whether he would have been able to do it all from scratch is a moot point - we will never know.

    As for moving the Tories back from the 21st century, he gives every indication of wishing that society had stopped developing in around 1955. His position on a number of issues strongly indicates that. A lot of people think he is funny and entertaining because of that. I imagine that is because right now he is powerless and, therefore, powerless.

    Leadership? Like Corbyn he has been a serial rebel from the backbenches and has no ministerial experience whatsoever. My guess is that with fellow MPs neither of those things would be to his advantage - eg, see the recent Treasury committee chairmanship vote. However, should he manage to get his name in front of Tory members, like Corbyn with Labour members he probably reflects majority views. Whether those are majority views in the country is another matter entirely.

    There's a fanatic lurking behind JRM's personable young fogey demeanour. Corbyn us certainly left wing, associates with disreputable groups, is disloyal and probably not fit to be leader. But he doesn't impose his views on others in the same way.
    Given a free rein, what do you imagine JRM would do?
    I'm not sure. I guess his would be a very ideological, conservative, backward and inward looking government. A De Valera of our times?
    The guy has made zillions investing in the most far-flung places on the planet; he is the opposite of inward looking. He has more experience of different cultures than those who only know N19 that's for sure. How, for example, is Jeremy Corbyn not inward looking?
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822

    Jacob Rees-Mogg was last matched for next Conservative leader at 7 on Betfair. Either the price is crazy or the Conservative party is crazy. Or both.

    Bring On The Moggster!!!! :D
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    isam said:

    GeoffM said:

    ‪Boost for the England cricket team. Gary Ballance is the batting equivalent of Jade Dernbach‬

    https://twitter.com/bbctms/status/887320260696834050


    To be replaced by Vince?

    Mark Stoneman from Surrey, I reckon.

    Jennings drops tp 3.
    Stoneman and Borthwick did well on the dreadful Durham wickets, bring them both in and leave Dawson out
    Haseeb Hameed should open
    Definitely the future but he has hardly got a run this season
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    GIN1138 said:

    I give this lot we have in power a year.2018 is my bet for year of next GE,either June and September,best priced at 11-4 with Shadsy,who,if he was a true gentleman, would up it to 3-1, and Corals.Pressure for another referendum is growing but I think it will be settled by an election instead.I remain of the view that referenda are the tools of a tyrant which is why Goebbels liked them so much.The Zombie Government might just last until next year.1 point of betting bank applied.

    We haven't had a general election in a year ending with "8" since 1918!!!! :open_mouth:
    If James Callaghan had called one in 1978, he might have done rather better than he actually did in 1979.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289
    FF43 said:

    @Topping - Rees Mogg

    JRM is an Old Etonian from a family with long connections in the City. He has clearly been able to use all the very big advantages he was born with to his benefit. Good luck to him. He would have been a fool not to do so. And I am certainly not suggesting that he is a fool. Whether he would have been able to do it all from scratch is a moot point - we will never know.

    As for moving the Tories back from the 21st century, he gives every indication of wishing that society had stopped developing in around 1955. His position on a number of issues strongly indicates that. A lot of people think he is funny and entertaining because of that. I imagine that is because right now he is powerless and, therefore, powerless.

    Leadership? Like Corbyn he has been a serial rebel from the backbenches and has no ministerial experience whatsoever. My guess is that with fellow MPs neither of those things would be to his advantage - eg, see the recent Treasury committee chairmanship vote. However, should he manage to get his name in front of Tory members, like Corbyn with Labour members he probably reflects majority views. Whether those are majority views in the country is another matter entirely.

    There's a fanatic lurking behind JRM's personable young fogey demeanour. Corbyn us certainly left wing, associates with disreputable groups, is disloyal and probably not fit to be leader. But he doesn't impose his views on others in the same way.
    It's academic, since the MPs will make sure he never gets anywhere near the members. There's a reason he has never been asked to manage anything.

    The problem the MPs do have is a growing list of aspirant candidates who they will want to keep away from the members, and a relative shortage of experienced and credible ones. Although of course they only need to find two.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Jacob Rees-Mogg was last matched for next Conservative leader at 7 on Betfair. Either the price is crazy or the Conservative party is crazy. Or both.

    If J R-M is the answer then the Conservative Party and the country are in deep deep sh1t
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Senior, still better than Corbyn :p
This discussion has been closed.