Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Undefined discussion subject.

2»

Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,288
    calum said:

    Sabatours please help me !

    It was a bad line when the headline was dictated; should have been 'trust the saboteurs'?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    Scott_P said:

    There seems to have been some concerted briefing of the press for tomorrow's papers that May is asking Corbyn for ideas and assistance in getting her policies through. Can that really have come from Number 10? It sounds pathetic, which I don't mean in the insulting way it's often said, but just embarrassing.

    Also, the Government needs to make up its mind: is Corbyn a dangerous leftie who must be kept from power at all costs, even a DUP bung if needed, or a sensible fellow who can be reasonably asked for assistance? He can't possibly be both.

    Can it possibly be a shot across the bows of "saboteurs" ?

    "If you won't vote with me to get Brexit through, the other side will" ?
    But the other side won't!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,288

    IanB2 said:

    If Davis does get eased into the top job, who becomes the next Brexit Bulldog/Master Negotiator? Not an easy job to fill.

    Meanwhile, since any replacement for May is more likely to be more pragmatic and flexible on Brexit, what incentive does Labour have to help her out?

    Good point but the media will be all over this and the responses may be interesting to say the least, especially from Corbyn and Chuka
    Given how keen May and the Tories were to keep Corbyn in his job, it would surely be the ultimate irony if the story ends with Corbyn trying to keep May in hers.....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106

    There seems to have been some concerted briefing of the press for tomorrow's papers that May is asking Corbyn for ideas and assistance in getting her policies through. Can that really have come from Number 10? It sounds pathetic, which I don't mean in the insulting way it's often said, but just embarrassing.

    Also, the Government needs to make up its mind: is Corbyn a dangerous leftie who must be kept from power at all costs, even a DUP bung if needed, or a sensible fellow who can be reasonably asked for assistance? He can't possibly be both.

    Very well put Nick.

    The whole thing seems completely bizarre to me, to the point I would suspect it as fake news except it seems to be in all the serious papers. How does asking Corbyn for help strengthen May's hand with plotters? And she can't seriously believe that Corbyn will offer anything other than suggest she resigns?

    Could this be the beginning of the end? Odds on a 2nd 2017 GE anyone?
    But Corbyn would need to explain how he would deal with Brexit and labour are as split as the conservatives. The whole thing is bizarre but how this works out who knows, other than a likely leadership race for the Autumn - not sure the conservatives and dup will fold yet for a GE in 2017
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106

    Scott_P said:

    There seems to have been some concerted briefing of the press for tomorrow's papers that May is asking Corbyn for ideas and assistance in getting her policies through. Can that really have come from Number 10? It sounds pathetic, which I don't mean in the insulting way it's often said, but just embarrassing.

    Also, the Government needs to make up its mind: is Corbyn a dangerous leftie who must be kept from power at all costs, even a DUP bung if needed, or a sensible fellow who can be reasonably asked for assistance? He can't possibly be both.

    Can it possibly be a shot across the bows of "saboteurs" ?

    "If you won't vote with me to get Brexit through, the other side will" ?
    But the other side won't!
    Not sure - despite their comments the last thing the SNP or the Lib Dems want right now is another GE
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,405

    There seems to have been some concerted briefing of the press for tomorrow's papers that May is asking Corbyn for ideas and assistance in getting her policies through. Can that really have come from Number 10? It sounds pathetic, which I don't mean in the insulting way it's often said, but just embarrassing.

    Also, the Government needs to make up its mind: is Corbyn a dangerous leftie who must be kept from power at all costs, even a DUP bung if needed, or a sensible fellow who can be reasonably asked for assistance? He can't possibly be both.

    Very well put Nick.

    The whole thing seems completely bizarre to me, to the point I would suspect it as fake news except it seems to be in all the serious papers. How does asking Corbyn for help strengthen May's hand with plotters? And she can't seriously believe that Corbyn will offer anything other than suggest she resigns?

    Could this be the beginning of the end? Odds on a 2nd 2017 GE anyone?
    But Corbyn would need to explain how he would deal with Brexit and labour are as split as the conservatives. The whole thing is bizarre but how this works out who knows, other than a likely leadership race for the Autumn - not sure the conservatives and dup will fold yet for a GE in 2017
    He wouldn't have to. He can just say, you've got my manifesto, implement that. Including dropping the public sector paycap that you three line whipped against a couple of weeks back. I don't think Mrs May will say, sure, good idea!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849

    There seems to have been some concerted briefing of the press for tomorrow's papers that May is asking Corbyn for ideas and assistance in getting her policies through. Can that really have come from Number 10? It sounds pathetic, which I don't mean in the insulting way it's often said, but just embarrassing.

    Also, the Government needs to make up its mind: is Corbyn a dangerous leftie who must be kept from power at all costs, even a DUP bung if needed, or a sensible fellow who can be reasonably asked for assistance? He can't possibly be both.

    Very well put Nick.

    The whole thing seems completely bizarre to me, to the point I would suspect it as fake news except it seems to be in all the serious papers. How does asking Corbyn for help strengthen May's hand with plotters? And she can't seriously believe that Corbyn will offer anything other than suggest she resigns?

    Could this be the beginning of the end? Odds on a 2nd 2017 GE anyone?
    But Corbyn would need to explain how he would deal with Brexit and labour are as split as the conservatives. The whole thing is bizarre but how this works out who knows, other than a likely leadership race for the Autumn - not sure the conservatives and dup will fold yet for a GE in 2017
    You're probably right re the ConDUP arrangement holding firm through this year at least but once things start unravelling things could move fast.

    If May is ousted, the new PM will be under intense pressure to seek a mandate from the country.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,635
    Lol Lord Adonis calls for tuition fees to be scrapped - the guy who came up with the idea in the first place !
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    Pulpstar said:

    Lol Lord Adonis calls for tuition fees to be scrapped - the guy who came up with the idea in the first place !

    At least he's managed to keep an open mind on the subject... must be that (free) university education of his lol!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849

    Scott_P said:

    There seems to have been some concerted briefing of the press for tomorrow's papers that May is asking Corbyn for ideas and assistance in getting her policies through. Can that really have come from Number 10? It sounds pathetic, which I don't mean in the insulting way it's often said, but just embarrassing.

    Also, the Government needs to make up its mind: is Corbyn a dangerous leftie who must be kept from power at all costs, even a DUP bung if needed, or a sensible fellow who can be reasonably asked for assistance? He can't possibly be both.

    Can it possibly be a shot across the bows of "saboteurs" ?

    "If you won't vote with me to get Brexit through, the other side will" ?
    But the other side won't!
    Not sure - despite their comments the last thing the SNP or the Lib Dems want right now is another GE
    An election is the 2nd last thing they want... the very last thing they want is to be accused of being scared of an election!
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784
    So, May begging help from Corbyn... Does this make her a dangerous socialist?

    I dont get why she is saying that other than to make Corbyn more like a leader
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784
    'Andrew Gwynne, Labour campaign coordinator and shadow cabinet minister, said: “Theresa May has finally come clean and accepted the government has completely run out of ideas. As a result they’re having to beg for policy proposals from Labour.

    “This is further evidence that this government can no longer run the country.”'
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    619 said:

    So, May begging help from Corbyn... Does this make her a dangerous socialist?

    I dont get why she is saying that other than to make Corbyn more like a leader

    Maybe she's a Momentum plant in the Tory party :smile:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849
    619 said:

    'Andrew Gwynne, Labour campaign coordinator and shadow cabinet minister, said: “Theresa May has finally come clean and accepted the government has completely run out of ideas. As a result they’re having to beg for policy proposals from Labour.

    “This is further evidence that this government can no longer run the country.”'

    It's like tapping into an open goal.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106

    619 said:

    'Andrew Gwynne, Labour campaign coordinator and shadow cabinet minister, said: “Theresa May has finally come clean and accepted the government has completely run out of ideas. As a result they’re having to beg for policy proposals from Labour.

    “This is further evidence that this government can no longer run the country.”'

    It's like tapping into an open goal.
    The only thing that may be happening here is that TM hopes to exploit the splits between Corbyn and Chuka. Remember labour are as split as the conservatives on Brexit
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106
    It would be of interest if we knew how many MP's are remainer's in each party and the overall difference between the two. Maybe 425 - 225 to remainers
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106
    619 said:

    So, May begging help from Corbyn... Does this make her a dangerous socialist?

    I dont get why she is saying that other than to make Corbyn more like a leader

    Or to smoke him out on his position on Brexit
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,849

    619 said:

    'Andrew Gwynne, Labour campaign coordinator and shadow cabinet minister, said: “Theresa May has finally come clean and accepted the government has completely run out of ideas. As a result they’re having to beg for policy proposals from Labour.

    “This is further evidence that this government can no longer run the country.”'

    It's like tapping into an open goal.
    The only thing that may be happening here is that TM hopes to exploit the splits between Corbyn and Chuka. Remember labour are as split as the conservatives on Brexit
    Well, for that to happen she'd have to come out with a u-turn on hard Brexit and seek the Labour remainers support for a soft Brexit. Such a u-turn would surely cause a Tory leadership party challenge.

  • There seems to have been some concerted briefing of the press for tomorrow's papers that May is asking Corbyn for ideas and assistance in getting her policies through. Can that really have come from Number 10? It sounds pathetic, which I don't mean in the insulting way it's often said, but just embarrassing.

    Also, the Government needs to make up its mind: is Corbyn a dangerous leftie who must be kept from power at all costs, even a DUP bung if needed, or a sensible fellow who can be reasonably asked for assistance? He can't possibly be both.

    Very well put Nick.

    The whole thing seems completely bizarre to me, to the point I would suspect it as fake news except it seems to be in all the serious papers. How does asking Corbyn for help strengthen May's hand with plotters? And she can't seriously believe that Corbyn will offer anything other than suggest she resigns?

    Could this be the beginning of the end? Odds on a 2nd 2017 GE anyone?
    But Corbyn would need to explain how he would deal with Brexit and labour are as split as the conservatives. The whole thing is bizarre but how this works out who knows, other than a likely leadership race for the Autumn - not sure the conservatives and dup will fold yet for a GE in 2017
    You're probably right re the ConDUP arrangement holding firm through this year at least but once things start unravelling things could move fast.

    If May is ousted, the new PM will be under intense pressure to seek a mandate from the country.
    All of this must be driven by pressure from within the Conservative parliamentary party. If they move to replace her then they can point to the fact that she didn't think she needed a mandate from the country and carry on regardless with her successor.

    If the aim is to move the government towards favouring an EEA arrangement then it will be the Tory right who end up looking towards Corbyn for succour rather than an irrelevant Theresa May. Replacing the PM could shuffle things around quite significantly.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106

    619 said:

    'Andrew Gwynne, Labour campaign coordinator and shadow cabinet minister, said: “Theresa May has finally come clean and accepted the government has completely run out of ideas. As a result they’re having to beg for policy proposals from Labour.

    “This is further evidence that this government can no longer run the country.”'

    It's like tapping into an open goal.
    The only thing that may be happening here is that TM hopes to exploit the splits between Corbyn and Chuka. Remember labour are as split as the conservatives on Brexit
    Well, for that to happen she'd have to come out with a u-turn on hard Brexit and seek the Labour remainers support for a soft Brexit. Such a u-turn would surely cause a Tory leadership party challenge.

    I think that is where this is going and if she falls Hammond will take over as the safe pair of hands
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587



    I give up Nick - it will be interesting how this plays out but I cannot see her lasting long now

    I think it's perhaps spin gone wrong - reading the Times text, I think the idea is supposed to be to appeal to the body of opinion - always quite large - which feels all the parties should get together and somehow sort out the best policies for Britain. Then if the other parties respond dubiously, say "See? Only I can govern for the whole country." She doesn't seem to have thought of the possibility that it will reinforce the "out of ideas" narrative.

    I suspect Corbyn will simply say politely that he accepts that the Government is baffled by the difficult situation, and they should make way for a minority Labour government to put forward Labour's ideas. If Parliament accepts them, fine. If not, an election can be held with whatever ideas the Conservatives have had in the meantime, and the electorate can decide.

    Recess, tantalisingly, is just 11 days away. I've seen it suggested that the Government is proposing to skip the September session and not recall Parliament until after the conferences - has that been confirmed? That, too, reinforces the sense that they can't think of anything to do.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,106



    I give up Nick - it will be interesting how this plays out but I cannot see her lasting long now

    I think it's perhaps spin gone wrong - reading the Times text, I think the idea is supposed to be to appeal to the body of opinion - always quite large - which feels all the parties should get together and somehow sort out the best policies for Britain. Then if the other parties respond dubiously, say "See? Only I can govern for the whole country." She doesn't seem to have thought of the possibility that it will reinforce the "out of ideas" narrative.

    I suspect Corbyn will simply say politely that he accepts that the Government is baffled by the difficult situation, and they should make way for a minority Labour government to put forward Labour's ideas. If Parliament accepts them, fine. If not, an election can be held with whatever ideas the Conservatives have had in the meantime, and the electorate can decide.

    Recess, tantalisingly, is just 11 days away. I've seen it suggested that the Government is proposing to skip the September session and not recall Parliament until after the conferences - has that been confirmed? That, too, reinforces the sense that they can't think of anything to do.
    I again agree with you and it does seem that there is some move to delay recall until after the conferences. Not sure Corbyn will be able to do that as he would need to win a no confidence vote or for the government to capitulate which seems highly unlikely. It wont stop Corbyn trying it though, but if the point you make that TM is trying to form a government of national unity is seen by the public in a positive light she may just get away with this gamble
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,736
    It's all very bizarre because as Nick says it's only 8 sitting days until recess.

    There are no Brexit votes before recess so why bother making any appeal now about anything.

    By far the best thing to do would be to say nothing and on Thursday week everyone has gone in holiday.

    Nick - the Parliament website says they are coming back in September - for 7 days I think.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,971



    I give up Nick - it will be interesting how this plays out but I cannot see her lasting long now

    I think it's perhaps spin gone wrong - reading the Times text, I think the idea is supposed to be to appeal to the body of opinion - always quite large - which feels all the parties should get together and somehow sort out the best policies for Britain. Then if the other parties respond dubiously, say "See? Only I can govern for the whole country." She doesn't seem to have thought of the possibility that it will reinforce the "out of ideas" narrative...
    That sounds about right.

    The general idea is not an utterly ridiculous one, but to throw it out in such a poorly defined manner, without any apparent media strategy to rebut negative interpretations and provide positive clarification smacks of the disastrous election campaign management.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,971
    Meanwhile, this is a genius idea - a prosthetic third thumb:
    https://techxplore.com/news/2017-07-mechanical-thumb-abilities.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,971
    Thinking about it a bit more, there are two possibilities...
    Either this is a plan so brilliant that even PB's finest can't understand it - in which case it's really not a brilliant plan - or May genuinely has no idea at all, beyond her 'red lines', how to go about achieving a successful Brexit.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,854
    Nigelb said:

    Thinking about it a bit more, there are two possibilities...
    Either this is a plan so brilliant that even PB's finest can't understand it - in which case it's really not a brilliant plan - or May genuinely has no idea at all, beyond her 'red lines', how to go about achieving a successful Brexit.

    Her original plan seemed to be to intimidate the EU with the size of her majority, and her new plan seems to be to intimidate the EU with the size of her cross-party Brexit coalition.
  • 619619 Posts: 1,784



    I give up Nick - it will be interesting how this plays out but I cannot see her lasting long now

    I think it's perhaps spin gone wrong - reading the Times text, I think the idea is supposed to be to appeal to the body of opinion - always quite large - which feels all the parties should get together and somehow sort out the best policies for Britain. Then if the other parties respond dubiously, say "See? Only I can govern for the whole country." She doesn't seem to have thought of the possibility that it will reinforce the "out of ideas" narrative.

    I suspect Corbyn will simply say politely that he accepts that the Government is baffled by the difficult situation, and they should make way for a minority Labour government to put forward Labour's ideas. If Parliament accepts them, fine. If not, an election can be held with whatever ideas the Conservatives have had in the meantime, and the electorate can decide.

    Recess, tantalisingly, is just 11 days away. I've seen it suggested that the Government is proposing to skip the September session and not recall Parliament until after the conferences - has that been confirmed? That, too, reinforces the sense that they can't think of anything to do.
    I again agree with you and it does seem that there is some move to delay recall until after the conferences. Not sure Corbyn will be able to do that as he would need to win a no confidence vote or for the government to capitulate which seems highly unlikely. It wont stop Corbyn trying it though, but if the point you make that TM is trying to form a government of national unity is seen by the public in a positive light she may just get away with this gamble
    Thats not how the press are reporting it, even the Torygraph...
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    edited July 2017
    Just been watching BBC and some US sources on FB, seems Trump has just tweeted that he and Putin have agreed to set up a joint cyber force. Republicans are more than a little unhappy....

    Bets on next POTUS anyone?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited July 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Lol Lord Adonis calls for tuition fees to be scrapped - the guy who came up with the idea in the first place !

    Politics would be immeasurably improved if politicians could be allowed to say, from time to time, "I got that one wrong; I've changed my mind". Instead they rarely do because if they try, they get immediately accused of "doing a U-turn" or "flip-flopping", depending on which side of the Atlantic they are.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,229
    Brexit negotiations must be completed by 30 March 2019; we will not support any extension to this deadline, because it would require the UK to hold European elections in May 2019. That is simply unthinkable.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/09/brexit-offer-eu-citzens-veto-british-porposal-european-parliament#comments
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,229
    The Grauniad on student fees:

    Yet just removing fees risks being an even bigger bung to the better off. Labour needs to spell out exactly how it would work, how it could be done without capping student numbers again, and how it would improve the student experience.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/09/the-guardian-view-on-abolishing-student-fees-easier-to-say-than-to-do
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile, this is a genius idea - a prosthetic third thumb:
    https://techxplore.com/news/2017-07-mechanical-thumb-abilities.html

    Very practical.
    It'll give williamglenn a spare one to stick up his arse.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,854
    GeoffM said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile, this is a genius idea - a prosthetic third thumb:
    https://techxplore.com/news/2017-07-mechanical-thumb-abilities.html

    Very practical.
    It'll give williamglenn a spare one to stick up his arse.
    Have opposable thumbs reached Gibraltar yet?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,407
    Nigelb said:



    I give up Nick - it will be interesting how this plays out but I cannot see her lasting long now

    I think it's perhaps spin gone wrong - reading the Times text, I think the idea is supposed to be to appeal to the body of opinion - always quite large - which feels all the parties should get together and somehow sort out the best policies for Britain. Then if the other parties respond dubiously, say "See? Only I can govern for the whole country." She doesn't seem to have thought of the possibility that it will reinforce the "out of ideas" narrative...
    That sounds about right.

    The general idea is not an utterly ridiculous one, but to throw it out in such a poorly defined manner, without any apparent media strategy to rebut negative interpretations and provide positive clarification smacks of the disastrous election campaign management.
    It's possible this idea might go down better with the public than with pb consensus.
    But some Tory MPs must be horrified? And some of the compromises will undermine her position further.... pay rise for the public sector probably has a majority in the Commons now?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,849

    it's like appointing an admiral to assess the mutiny on the Bounty

    So, wholly appropriate then?

    Lord Hood actually was an admiral when he presided over the Bounty Court Martial. Who else but an admiral would be remotely qualified to do it?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,407
    OchEye said:

    Just been watching BBC and some US sources on FB, seems Trump has just tweeted that he and Putin have agreed to set up a joint cyber force. Republicans are more than a little unhappy....

    Bets on next POTUS anyone?

    He may have already rowed back on that!?
    The fact that his son went to a meeting with a Russian lawyer with the express intention of gaining damaging info on Hilary is pretty suggestive.

    The progression seems to be:

    We never met any Russians and they didn't try to influence the election.
    They may have hacked the election, but our Russian meetings were about other issues.
    They did hack the election. We did have Russian meetings where we tried to collude but we were unsuccessful. We met with the wrong Russians.

This discussion has been closed.