Currently, the Tories remarkably consistent, but Labour's 34-38 varies wildly from one pollster to the other. 4 percentage points is outside the MoE. Something ain't right, it can't be.
Final polling will be fascinating, but they can't all be right.
In 2015 the polls, the people who obsess over polls, and the betting, which is largely shaped by people who obsess over polls, made NOM a certainty '1.1 free money'
They feed off each other, inside the over engaged bubble. That's why they are so often so wrong.
On the other hand, for things like Lab leader they are very accurate, because the people being polled and the people with a vote at the ballot have the same level of engagement
The useless May deserves to lose this election. The only reason she will win this is that her opponent is Jeremy Corbyn. What as a nation have we done to deserve this?
UKIP collapsing and the LDs still in the doldrums helps Corbyn, if Foot and Kinnock had not had the SDP/Alliance to deal with Labour would likely have polled higher in 1983 and 1987 too
Currently, the Tories remarkably consistent, but Labour's 34-38 varies wildly from one pollster to the other. 4 percentage points is outside the MoE. Something ain't right, it can't be.
Final polling will be fascinating, but they can't all be right.
I wouldn't describe a range of 4% in Labour's support, i.e. between 34%- 38% as varying "wildly". This is only around 1% outside the statistical margin of error for polls of this size and nature and in fact very much suggests that they are in the right ballpark. The same goes, in fact more so, for the Tories' consistent level of support.
Well many thought they couldn't get 30, and look where we are. I felt low thirties was the best they could do, but so far the surge shows little sign of reversing in any significant way. The Tory share is high enough to win, but a sub 10 lead is just as likely as anything above it, perhaps more likely - a few polls have then just over, but show a downward trend in the lead and were coming from much higher previous polls, and the new normal is sub 10 or getting close to it. What will the new normal be next week? More 5-7 leads? 3-5? I'll make a prediction right now - it won't be a return to 15+.
The LDs deserve much criticism for not eating into either CON or LAB, to the point Lab are pushing 40% under Corbyn. Pathetic showing even with difficulty getting publicity and Labour running a good campaign - their best hope, if the polls are right, is that they are in fact going backwards in a lot of places, but increasing their support in the seats they currently hold and a few targets seats (as may well be the case in Scotland).
.... but I have never (never mind continuously) insisted that Britain couldn't leave the EU without destroying the nation, either literally or metaphorically.
And I maintain that the EU cannot reach it's final goal without destroying ALL its member nations, replacing them with a new structure which it believes is better.
I don't believe that it would be better. I respect the idealism of the pan-europeans but think them dangerously naive. However, "your mileage may vary" (as the saying goes).
The useless May deserves to lose this election. The only reason she will win this is that her opponent is Jeremy Corbyn. What as a nation have we done to deserve this?
Yes, Corbyn is no voter repellent, it would seem. Are all these doorstep anecdotes from activists saying Corbyn is a repellent just finding the unusual ones, total lies, or hugely magnified? Though it seems such reports have either dried up or people have stopped reporting on them in the past week; how peculiar now that they look to be nonsense.
If May gets a majority of 50-60, she will have been vindicated, even if it's much less than hoped for.
I agree that Corbyn has been a much better campaigner than I expected.
It's that basic, I think. He looks the part, now, and he sounds OK, and his policies are popular and easy-to-understand. Bingo, a ten point lift in the polls. Most people don't care about the IRA, or they aren't aware of his past, and these people can never be reached, so they can't be enlightened.
Got it in one. What has happened with the party under Corbyn (not entirely at his direction, but beyond his ability to prevent) shows his general inability to do a job like PM, and his policy offer, while lovely, is not one I can believe (if I could believe it I might vote for it - who would say no to increases to everything we like? The Tories politically made a mistake being slightly honest about taking things away), but he looks and sounds ok. It's what makes him worse, in a way, than Abbott, who comes across as a fool, and an arrogant fool at that. I certainly never expected a rise so significant, and have to hold my hand up that turns out he was right, he is popular among more than just his core crowd, but Labour holding up reasonable was always possible under him.
If May gets a majority of 50-60, she will have been vindicated, even if it's much less than hoped for.
I agree that Corbyn has been a much better campaigner than I expected.
Yep. When I first saw Jezza in a proper suit, and tie, and talking sense, I subconsciously thought: Oh, OK, he's a serious politician. And I despise him and his views!
It's that basic, I think. He looks the part, now, and he sounds OK, and his policies are popular and easy-to-understand. Bingo, a ten point lift in the polls. Most people don't care about the IRA, or they aren't aware of his past, and these people can never be reached, so they can't be enlightened.
But the more aware section of the population is alert to the danger, and cannot be persuaded to vote for him, ever. Even if they despair of that silly woman Theresa May (who is gravely disappointing)
The Tories will get 43-46 and Labour's slightly flaky Coalition of WNVs and DKs will, in fact, subside to 33 or so.
Which means my original prediction of a Tory maj of 80-100 still seems ballparky.
Corbyn fills 50% of the voters with horror.
But, there's plainly a lot of support for radical socialism, if offered by people who are clearly patriotic.
.... but I have never (never mind continuously) insisted that Britain couldn't leave the EU without destroying the nation, either literally or metaphorically.
And I maintain that the EU cannot reach it's final goal without destroying ALL its member nations, replacing them with a new structure which it believes is better.
I don't believe that it would be better. I respect the idealism of the pan-europeans but think them dangerously naive. However, "your mileage may vary" (as the saying goes).
While I simply regard views such as yours as straightforwardly deranged. You start from a premise and work backwards.
That is by far the most surprising thing of the whole election campaign. The Remain fight back hasn't even got off the runway.
This was marketed as the Brexit election but it hasn't turned out that way. Conversely, if reports are true and Crosby is getting the Tories to hammer away on Brexit for the final fortnight then that may help the Lib Dems.
The useless May deserves to lose this election. The only reason she will win this is that her opponent is Jeremy Corbyn. What as a nation have we done to deserve this?
Are you voting for the candidate in your Constituency best placed to defeat the Tories?
If May gets a majority of 50-60, she will have been vindicated, even if it's much less than hoped for.
I agree that Corbyn has been a much better campaigner than I expected.
A majority of 50 to 60 on this manifesto is much better than a majority of 150 on an anodyne manifesto.
Looking at tonight's polls, I'm comfortable saying that the current "true" polling position has the CON share around 44%. That's still enough for a comfortable majority.
Does anyone - anyone! - and i include the PB Tories - think May will make a good PM? Anyone??
I've never been a huge fan of May. She seemed dull and competent, and the latter image has certainly taken a hit. But as worrisome as the comparison is given what happened, it's like Clinton and Trump. Maybe Clinton would have been bad, or at least mediocre. But it would have been on a scale that is pretty within the range of the expected. Corbyn would be a Trump, only without the outsider status (that guff about him being one because he was on the backbenchers is nonsense) or some measure of proven success or appearance of success in other areas.
Yes, Corbyn is no voter repellent, it would seem. Are all these doorstep anecdotes from activists saying Corbyn is a repellent just finding the unusual ones, total lies, or hugely magnified? Though it seems such reports have either dried up or people have stopped reporting on them in the past week; how peculiar now that they look to be nonsense.
No. Corbyn is massively voter-repellent to voters aged over 45, but he enthuses young voters.
The useless May deserves to lose this election. The only reason she will win this is that her opponent is Jeremy Corbyn. What as a nation have we done to deserve this?
Are you voting for the candidate in your Constituency best placed to defeat the Tories?
Probably, although in my seat the Tories are 100% certain to win.
If May gets a majority of 50-60, she will have been vindicated, even if it's much less than hoped for.
I agree that Corbyn has been a much better campaigner than I expected.
A majority of 50 to 60 on this manifesto is much better than a majority of 150 on an anodyne manifesto.
An admirable position to take, although the one concern for me on that is that Corbyn will almost certainly remain as Leader if the majority is only 50-60, and he will have obtained a vote share so creditable he will stay and his successor will be of his choosing, which does not bode well - his supporters can say how great he is if they like, and certainly he is not repelling voters as he was predicted by many, but the shambles of Labour in parliament for the past 2 years is tied to his leadership, the man did not have the support of most of his own MPs, and the talk of him not being up to the LOTO job let alone PM job has ample evidence to support it, and that's not good for anyone in the long run.
The useless May deserves to lose this election. The only reason she will win this is that her opponent is Jeremy Corbyn. What as a nation have we done to deserve this?
Are you voting for the candidate in your Constituency best placed to defeat the Tories?
I'm voting for the candidate to best defeat the socialist/marxist/leninist/fenian :-)
It must be v hard for the pollsters to judge Labour's true turn-out position vs polling answers with so much of their increased support reportedly coming from those historically less likely to actually vote on GE day or never to have voted, it's surely guess-work if Corbyn will be the Heineken leader this time.
Do people have any thoughts on the Lib Dem leadership after the election, if they do as badly as these polls are suggesting?
It looks as though the most credible alternative leaders (including Clegg) are the likeliest to lose their seats.
Specifically, putting tonight's YouGov into electoralcalculus.co.uk, the three alternatives to Farron would be (1) Mark Williams, (2) Alistair Carmichael (who kept his job by convincing a court he had lied in an official rather than a personal capacity) and (3) Greg Mulholland (a Christian with a record of voting against same-sex marriage and abortion).
Yes, Corbyn is no voter repellent, it would seem. Are all these doorstep anecdotes from activists saying Corbyn is a repellent just finding the unusual ones, total lies, or hugely magnified? Though it seems such reports have either dried up or people have stopped reporting on them in the past week; how peculiar now that they look to be nonsense.
I had one person say that to me yesterday. Others were more of the opinion that Lab was more on working people's side under him and that was down to Jezza.
The Social Care proposal was the game changer I think on the doorstep
That is by far the most surprising thing of the whole election campaign. The Remain fight back hasn't even got off the runway.
Not a surprise to me. I said that Tories deserting to the LibDems over Brexit was the dog that would not bark. And I said shortly before the election was called that the LibDem approach was fraught with danger and I could see them making a net loss of seats. Scotland might possibly save them from that ignominy, but not by much.
Does anyone - anyone! - and i include the PB Tories - think May will make a good PM? Anyone??
10,000,000 times better than Jeremy Corbyn.
Not what I asked.
I think she will be okay, not great, and maybe not even good. Clearly better than Brown, not as good as Major.
First thing May needs to do if she wins is to have to have a serious rethink about those she has working alongside her. She also needs to think about what she said on becoming PM, and deliver substantial improvements for the working class, not platitudes and couple of insubstantial tweaks to policy.
Yes, Corbyn is no voter repellent, it would seem. Are all these doorstep anecdotes from activists saying Corbyn is a repellent just finding the unusual ones, total lies, or hugely magnified? Though it seems such reports have either dried up or people have stopped reporting on them in the past week; how peculiar now that they look to be nonsense.
No. Corbyn is massively voter-repellent to voters aged over 45, but he enthuses young voters.
He is dependent on them, and they usually do not turn out - I have theorized that this election being so hot on the heels of Brexit and the last GE may mean that disappointed youngsters who said they'd vote and didn't last time might actually do it this time, but it is only a theory - but while his support with them would always have been higher, I doubt anyone expected high enough to lead to a narrowing in the polls so dramatic.
Moreover, the idea for many was that the more people saw of him and Labour's policies under him, the less support they would get, eg it would repel people. Well it hasn't.
If May gets a majority of 50-60, she will have been vindicated, even if it's much less than hoped for.
I agree that Corbyn has been a much better campaigner than I expected.
Yep. When I first saw Jezza in a proper suit, and tie, and talking sense, I subconsciously thought: Oh, OK, he's a serious politician. And I despise him and his views!
It's that basic, I think. He looks the part, now, and he sounds OK, and his policies are popular and easy-to-understand. Bingo, a ten point lift in the polls. Most people don't care about the IRA, or they aren't aware of his past, and these people can never be reached, so they can't be enlightened.
But the more aware section of the population is alert to the danger, and cannot be persuaded to vote for him, ever. Even if they despair of that silly woman Theresa May (who is gravely disappointing)
The Tories will get 43-46 and Labour's slightly flaky Coalition of WNVs and DKs will, in fact, subside to 33 or so.
Which means my original prediction of a Tory maj of 80-100 still seems ballparky.
Corbyn fills 50% of the voters with horror.
But, there's plainly a lot of support for radical socialism, if offered by people who are clearly patriotic.
If May gets a majority of 50-60, she will have been vindicated, even if it's much less than hoped for.
I agree that Corbyn has been a much better campaigner than I expected.
Yep. When I first saw Jezza in a proper suit, and tie, and talking sense, I subconsciously thought: Oh, OK, he's a serious politician. And I despise him and his views!
It's that basic, I think. He looks the part, now, and he sounds OK, and his policies are popular and easy-to-understand. Bingo, a ten point lift in the polls. Most people don't care about the IRA, or they aren't aware of his past, and these people can never be reached, so they can't be enlightened.
But the more aware section of the population is alert to the danger, and cannot be persuaded to vote for him, ever. Even if they despair of that silly woman Theresa May (who is gravely disappointing)
The Tories will get 43-46 and Labour's slightly flaky Coalition of WNVs and DKs will, in fact, subside to 33 or so.
Which means my original prediction of a Tory maj of 80-100 still seems ballparky.
Corbyn fills 50% of the voters with horror.
But, there's plainly a lot of support for radical socialism, if offered by people who are clearly patriotic.
Of course there is Sean, because it's candy floss and toys for everyone. What's not to like? People like nice things for no pain. The trouble is, with socialism, there is always pain, in the end.
The useless May deserves to lose this election. The only reason she will win this is that her opponent is Jeremy Corbyn. What as a nation have we done to deserve this?
Are you voting for the candidate in your Constituency best placed to defeat the Tories?
Probably, although in my seat the Tories are 100% certain to win.
That is by far the most surprising thing of the whole election campaign. The Remain fight back hasn't even got off the runway.
This was marketed as the Brexit election but it hasn't turned out that way. Conversely, if reports are true and Crosby is getting the Tories to hammer away on Brexit for the final fortnight then that may help the Lib Dems.
I don't think so. The public are bored of Brexit and moved on. They are not interested in process, though they are interested in destination. They want to know what a future Britain looks like, hence Labours policies on nationalisation, social care, tuition fees etc.
Labour is the only party in England with a vision of the future, and it is a future based on Brexit. The Tories still seem stuck in a place where they have left but not left, a sort of schrodingers Brexit.
Do people have any thoughts on the Lib Dem leadership after the election, if they do as badly as these polls are suggesting?
It looks as though the most credible alternative leaders (including Clegg) are the likeliest to lose their seats.
It's a really intriguing market I think. I'll wait til nearer the 8th before a bet. Lamb was 2/1 fav a week or so ago. He's 9/2 now because he's no longer fav for his seat. I think he might now be the value bet because if he does hold his seat he's hot fav for the job.
Do people have any thoughts on the Lib Dem leadership after the election, if they do as badly as these polls are suggesting?
It looks as though the most credible alternative leaders (including Clegg) are the likeliest to lose their seats.
It's a really intriguing market I think. I'll wait til nearer the 8th before a bet. Lamb was 2/1 fav a week or so ago. He's 9/2 now because he's no longer fav for his seat. I think he might now be the value bet because if he does hold his seat he's hot fav for the job.
If she wins back her seat Jo Swinson will be the next leader .
I confess I am oddly attracted to TV's Dr Lucy Worsley.
She has that petite posh Tinkerbell thing going on.
Indeed. I also like Hannah Fry. And of course Rachel Riley.
Phew. Glad to see you on a Saturday night thread Max. Was worried the polling tension had become too much!
Also, Rachel Riley was at Ox the same time as me. It is a tragedy that our paths never crossed....
Bah, polling tension. Though we wouldn't have any if Theresa wasn't so crap, or at least fired Nick Timothy and got Oliver Letwin back in.
Also, very glad we flew in with Swiss today! Normally we go BA. Would probably have got stuck in Zurich and missed one of my best friend's weddings.
Flew to a Malaga stag a few weeks ago with BA. Attrocious.
Whoever came up with the clever idea of getting very experienced air stewards who are used to charmingly doling out free goodies to charge for them has probably just cost them their short haul business model, and all their differentiation from Easyjet etc.
They do realise that many business people flew BA so they don't have to faff around with expenses claims, right?
That is by far the most surprising thing of the whole election campaign. The Remain fight back hasn't even got off the runway.
This was marketed as the Brexit election but it hasn't turned out that way. Conversely, if reports are true and Crosby is getting the Tories to hammer away on Brexit for the final fortnight then that may help the Lib Dems.
But what more is there to say about Brexit? We're leaving....job done. Not much of a dialogue for 7 weeks. Anybody in CCHQ who thought this wouldn't end up being about everything but Brexit was an idiot.
Theresa May is heading for the highest vote share for any party for more than 20 years, and yet people are calling her a failure. Amazing.
PBTories had drunk too long from the post 2010 'yah, so, we've gotta get Lib Dem votes like, everywah' kool-aid to see the advantage of winning seats directly from Labour.....
The useless May deserves to lose this election. The only reason she will win this is that her opponent is Jeremy Corbyn. What as a nation have we done to deserve this?
Are you voting for the candidate in your Constituency best placed to defeat the Tories?
Probably, although in my seat the Tories are 100% certain to win.
The useless May deserves to lose this election. The only reason she will win this is that her opponent is Jeremy Corbyn. What as a nation have we done to deserve this?
Are you voting for the candidate in your Constituency best placed to defeat the Tories?
Probably, although in my seat the Tories are 100% certain to win.
Do people have any thoughts on the Lib Dem leadership after the election, if they do as badly as these polls are suggesting?
It looks as though the most credible alternative leaders (including Clegg) are the likeliest to lose their seats.
It will be Hobson's choice, but Farron won't have any other MPs to lead!
Oh, he'll have a few. It's always worth having an revisit on the assessment of LD chances.
Carshalton - seen as tough for them to retain. Orkney - despite being pretty close last time and the Carmichael factor, he should win pretty comfortably. Hallam - Clegg's in real trouble, reliant on that there was a Labour surge in his seat last time, that was unusual for the constituency, not being repeated, and thus lack of Tory tacticals is not fatal to him. I see some saying he should be safe, others thinking he'll struggle, so it cannot be a certainty. Westmoreland - some chatter about Farron under pressure, and he's had a bad campaign even with the poor hand he as LD leader has been dealt (I am genuinely frustrated Labour have surged at their expense), but should be safe. North Norfolk - another tough one to retain. Some say local factors mean he is ok, strict models say its a goner. Leeds - a toss up, apparently. More likely to retain than not perhaps. Richmond - Another tough one to retain. Southport - fight on their hands, could hold, might lose. Ceredigion - Tough fight maybe, but should retain.
Target
Cambridge - I think it is safe to write this one off - Labour are surging somewhere and if it is anywhere surely it is a place like Cambridge? Edinburgh West - They're probably still confident SW London seats - relying on a campaigning surge that hasn't occurred? Unless they are going backwards elsewhere and rising here, not great chances A couple other scottish seats - could get lucky, depends how well any tactical voting goes.
Most other places that were former LD seats? Don't make me laugh.
Comments
Currently, the Tories remarkably consistent, but Labour's 34-38 varies wildly from one pollster to the other. 4 percentage points is outside the MoE. Something ain't right, it can't be.
Final polling will be fascinating, but they can't all be right.
Also LibDems AWOL.
They feed off each other, inside the over engaged bubble. That's why they are so often so wrong.
On the other hand, for things like Lab leader they are very accurate, because the people being polled and the people with a vote at the ballot have the same level of engagement
So you'll be forced to apologise to an apologist. Neat.
23/4 = 19.4%
30/4 = 18.2%
7/5 = 18.6%
14/5 = 17.2%
21/5 = 12.9%
28/5 (so far!) = 8.0%
I agree that Corbyn has been a much better campaigner than I expected.
You'd certainly get some good après chat.
The LDs deserve much criticism for not eating into either CON or LAB, to the point Lab are pushing 40% under Corbyn. Pathetic showing even with difficulty getting publicity and Labour running a good campaign - their best hope, if the polls are right, is that they are in fact going backwards in a lot of places, but increasing their support in the seats they currently hold and a few targets seats (as may well be the case in Scotland).
I don't believe that it would be better. I respect the idealism of the pan-europeans but think them dangerously naive. However, "your mileage may vary" (as the saying goes).
Also, Rachel Riley was at Ox the same time as me. It is a tragedy that our paths never crossed....
Let your imagination run with that....
What a bunch we have as leaders - the triumph of the era of the career politician.......not!
She's certainly not yet a good PM.
2001-16 was a fun experiment.
You must have undergone some very high quality training.
Also, very glad we flew in with Swiss today! Normally we go BA. Would probably have got stuck in Zurich and missed one of my best friend's weddings.
I've told him that he needs to see someone about it.
It looks as though the most credible alternative leaders (including Clegg) are the likeliest to lose their seats.
But, there's plainly a lot of support for radical socialism, if offered by people who are clearly patriotic.
Looking at tonight's polls, I'm comfortable saying that the current "true" polling position has the CON share around 44%. That's still enough for a comfortable majority.
The majority has to be an even number as there is an even number of seats.
Unless you're predicting a delayed poll in an odd number of constituencies...!
FWIW, I'd happily settle for 94 or 96. My best results are Con Maj 76-98 and LD sub 20.
:-)
I say he won't!
ROTFL.
The Social Care proposal was the game changer I think on the doorstep
First thing May needs to do if she wins is to have to have a serious rethink about those she has working alongside her. She also needs to think about what she said on becoming PM, and deliver substantial improvements for the working class, not platitudes and couple of insubstantial tweaks to policy.
Moreover, the idea for many was that the more people saw of him and Labour's policies under him, the less support they would get, eg it would repel people. Well it hasn't.
People like nice things for no pain. The trouble is, with socialism, there is always pain, in the end.
Labour is the only party in England with a vision of the future, and it is a future based on Brexit. The Tories still seem stuck in a place where they have left but not left, a sort of schrodingers Brexit.
https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2208134/soaps-hottest-woman-includes-pictures/p15
Whoever came up with the clever idea of getting very experienced air stewards who are used to charmingly doling out free goodies to charge for them has probably just cost them their short haul business model, and all their differentiation from Easyjet etc.
They do realise that many business people flew BA so they don't have to faff around with expenses claims, right?
I need to get up at 3am {not old man reasons]
My reliable sources say we should be getting an ICM but that might not be until the morning.
Carshalton - seen as tough for them to retain.
Orkney - despite being pretty close last time and the Carmichael factor, he should win pretty comfortably.
Hallam - Clegg's in real trouble, reliant on that there was a Labour surge in his seat last time, that was unusual for the constituency, not being repeated, and thus lack of Tory tacticals is not fatal to him. I see some saying he should be safe, others thinking he'll struggle, so it cannot be a certainty.
Westmoreland - some chatter about Farron under pressure, and he's had a bad campaign even with the poor hand he as LD leader has been dealt (I am genuinely frustrated Labour have surged at their expense), but should be safe.
North Norfolk - another tough one to retain. Some say local factors mean he is ok, strict models say its a goner.
Leeds - a toss up, apparently. More likely to retain than not perhaps.
Richmond - Another tough one to retain.
Southport - fight on their hands, could hold, might lose.
Ceredigion - Tough fight maybe, but should retain.
Target
Cambridge - I think it is safe to write this one off - Labour are surging somewhere and if it is anywhere surely it is a place like Cambridge?
Edinburgh West - They're probably still confident
SW London seats - relying on a campaigning surge that hasn't occurred? Unless they are going backwards elsewhere and rising here, not great chances
A couple other scottish seats - could get lucky, depends how well any tactical voting goes.
Most other places that were former LD seats? Don't make me laugh.