Regarding #SilenceTwitter mentioned up thread, Ms Moran is having her tweets picked over and some things appear to be at odds with her outrage over trolls - such as...
Limmy @DaftLimmy Imagine being a friend or fan of Caitlin Moran, having to justify her use of "spazz", "mong" and "retard" to yourself. The insanity.
I thought Farage was against all immigration. Full stop, end of. I'm not sure though, that he's thought through, for example, high skill immigrants in, say, the NHS.
When you start comparing what the Labour government was up to with Nazism you've probably lost the argument.
Please don't insult my intelligence with your patronising assertions. Haiving spoken to a lot of my friends, the view is pretty unanimous in that this is vile politics.
What's the racial profiling at Kensal Green tube station got to do with Labour? It's the work MODERATED the Conservative party.
The Conservative party will always be viewed as a xenophobic party by ethnic minority voters - the events of this week have just confirmed that. I wonder what Aidan Burley thinks of the week's events?
So what! The fact remains that that the killings and many other events were conducted under Obamas presidency.
And 9/11 happened when George W. Bush was in charge. I dont think you can support any political points from the information in the article.
There is one glaring political point that you wantonly overlook, Niel: that a muslim extremist misfit was alowed by army brass, due to PC, to remain in the army and kill and injure many army comrades.
There seems to a meme running through the posts on here by Carlotta and Plato that because there is a ( relatively small ) majority in the polls that think the vans were not racist and supported the actions then they cannot be . This is governing by opinion poll . It is like justifying Hitler's treatment of the Jews because say 52% of Germans agreed with his policy and 48% only opposed . Some things are simply wrong whatever the net public opinion of them is . FWIW I did not think the poster vans were racist simply crass .
Billy Knolls were offering 11/4 for the draw before the start of the match. I thought of off-setting it with meagre odds on an England win. The former would have resulted in a 60% return whilst the latter result would have covered my stake: I did not make the bet because of past Ozzie performances and an uncertain weather forecast....
Now, with a brilliant performance from the Crims and the current weather forecast I wish I had. Still have a lot to learn about this betting business....
There is one glaring political point that you wantonly overlook, Niel: that a muslim extremist misfit was alowed by army brass, due to PC, to remain in the army and kill and injure many army comrades.
And your party political attempt to link that to the Obama administration is a bit silly when he served for longer while Bush was in charge. If you want to go all anti-establishment on us you should include the whole of the establishment.
I thought Farage was against all immigration. Full stop, end of. I'm not sure though, that he's thought through, for example, high skill immigrants in, say, the NHS.
Of course tim et al seek to create a false dichotomy. We are either in favour of mass, uncontrolled immigration where we have no control over who settles here or whether they have the means to support themselves, or we are opposed to immigration full stop. There are of course other approaches, but the pro-immigration ultras cannot conceive of this.
It might have occurred to you to look at the UKIP website http://www.ukip.org/issues/policy-pages/immigration where you will see the UKIP policy is broadly a 5 year moratorium on permanent settlement, follwed by the introduiction of a points based system.
What's the racial profiling at Kensal Green tube station got to do with Labour?
It's difficult not to insult your intelligence when you seem incapable of understanding the really simple point that these operations at tube stations happened when Labour was in charge.
I think there's something in that. Plus it obliges Farage to explain what he would do.
We already know what Farage would do. Farage would be way tougher on immigration than Cameron could ever be. Farage would pretend he would stop Bulgarians and Romanians coming here. The idea that Farage is going to be outflanked on immigration by the Tories under Cameron (or under anyone) is really silly.
So he can criticise the moron vans for being the waste of money that they are while saying he wouldnt need them because there would be far fewer immigrants if he was in charge.
Another thing he can say that sounds convincing to people who don't think about it very hard is that immigration can be controlled at the border, which means you don't have to mess with the rights of people inside the country.
Removing illegal immigrants by any legitimate means is the duty and obligation of every UK Government.There cannot be an argument against that principle.
This conversation has become surreal. Whatever Labour did or didn't do everyone except for deaf mutes on life support now know that THE TORIES sent some very unpleasant vans into immigrant areas with pictures of handcuffs and nasty headlines.....
Whether this was by accident or design and whether it will do the Tories any good is a matter for debate but trying to embroil Labour into this is just without legs as they say in advertising.
For what it's worth my blinkered opinion tells me that it's the most inept piece of political positioning since Clegg became a quasi Tory and on a par with Blair joining forces with Bush in invading Iraq.
What's the racial profiling at Kensal Green tube station got to do with Labour? It's the work of MODERATED the Conservative party
I think you should provide a link to your accusation ...forward your legal-team's details to OGH and Junior; you could be libelling a few, rich folk there....
Fun fact: Godwin, of Godwin's law, used to be chief legal counsel for the Wikimedia Foundation. He loves Doctor Who (despite being American) and says his daughter compares him to Hitler when he tells her to do something.
It's amazing how many people are falling foul of Godwin's Law today. Epic fail.
What is not amazing is how many Conservative supporters would justify any obnoxious action their party introduces and which they would vehemently oppose if it had been introduced by Labour . There have been a few notable exceptions to this blind party loyalism .
There seems to a meme running through the posts on here by Carlotta and Plato that because there is a ( relatively small ) majority in the polls that think the vans were not racist and supported the actions then they cannot be . This is governing by opinion poll . It is like justifying Hitler's treatment of the Jews because say 52% of Germans agreed with his policy and 48% only opposed . Some things are simply wrong whatever the net public opinion of them is . FWIW I did not think the poster vans were racist simply crass .
trying to embroil Labour into this is just without legs as they say in advertising
Pointing out that the operations people are complaining about happened under Labour (and indeed happened with fewer controls) is not trying to embroil Labour in anything. It's pointing out facts.
Now I know a lot of people are upset at being stopped and questioned by these vans but the operations at tube stations are important too.
I guess Farage is trying to reinforce UKIP's libertarian self-identification. Most recent publicity seems to be that he is satisfying the whims of right-wing Tories - such as on gay marriage - so he tries it on, on the basis that being stopped and questioned by the police is not how we do things in England.
My view is that the vans are harmless - they are simply asking criminals to desist from committing their crime - but an example of advertising that the Government should not be spending money on.
Of course Labour was much worse in this respect. I recall all the propaganda ads iin the national press stating how wonderful A Level students were, at a time when "how hard A Levels are" was a matter of current political controversy. Straightforward corruption - using taxpayers' own money to attempt to change our views.
Interesting, thanks. I'm puzzled by the reaction of closing embassies on specific days. Don't the extremists just say "OK, chaps, we're doing it next week instead"? Or, more subtly, leak a series of alerts until people get bored with them, and then attack?
What do you make of the current position in Syria? Nothing much seems to be happening?
This conversation has become surreal. Whatever Labour did or didn't do everyone except for deaf mutes on life support now know that THE TORIES sent some very unpleasant vans into immigrant areas with pictures of handcuffs and nasty headlines.....
Whether this was by accident or design and whether it will do the Tories any good is a matter for debate but trying to embroil Labour into this is just without legs as they say in advertising.
For what it's worth my blinkered opinion tells me that it's the most inept piece of political positioning since Clegg became a quasi Tory and on a par with Blair joining forces with Bush in invading Iraq.
rubbish Roger the most inept piece of political positioning has to be the Unions backing EdM.
As for the vans I think you'll find Theresa May is a leading community artist, I fully expect her shock mobiles " Opening borders , closing minds" to tour our great cities and Ludlow before they find their final resting place in the Tate Modern. Now you want one don't you ? ;-)
Fun fact: Godwin, of Godwin's law, used to be chief legal counsel for the Wikimedia Foundation. He loves Doctor Who (despite being American) and says his daughter compares him to Hitler when he tells her to do something.
Marvellous! Are you on Twitter? I'd love to give you credit for that.
So long as the Tories are in favour of the single market and free movement they are in favour of uncontrolled immigration.
No. As I said on a previous post (which you ignored), we can tell Somalis (as an example) to f~~~ off. We can create a points based system for permanent settlement for non-EU citizens. We can record people entering and leaving the country so we know the size of the problem. We can tinker with the benefits system so that immigrants - from the EU and elsewhere - do not qualify for means-tested benefits so easily or so quickly. We can require people who bring in adult dependents to support them. There is plenty that can be done, with the proviso that the EU will always be there as a reservoir of uncontrollability within a controlled system.
Looking around for people on the left to blame ignores those basic facts
I'm not blaming you for anything. Just thought I would pay you in your own coin by giving you a label.
What is not amazing is how many Conservative supporters would justify any obnoxious action their party introduces and which they would vehemently oppose if it had been introduced by Labour . There have been a few notable exceptions to this blind party loyalism .
I'm not a blind Conservative loyalist, but I am opposed to these vans, see my previous post. But not for the reasons you appear to be opposed.
I still see no reason why telling people they should stop committing a crime is so wrong.
The more OTT this all gets - the more amused I become. With 92 weeks to go and here we are... Tories are genetically full of hate, and are racists and [insert extreme insult here].
More please. This applies to anyone who actually expresses an opinion that doesn't conform to what a LD or Labour voter thinks as decided by its PB mouthpieces.
Removing illegal immigrants by any legitimate means is the duty and obligation of every UK Government.There cannot be an argument against that principle.
Neil..I dont think the vans were used for anything but touring around with the message board, not aware they had personnel on board who stopped and questioned anyone, do you have any ptoof of that..
WRT to the illegal immigration vans, I've yet to hear a reasoned argument as to why these are any different from advertising campaigns warning against the consequences of drink driving or not paying the TV licence.
It is advising law breakers of the consequences of law breaking.
The mock outrage from the left merely demonstrates the extent to which they have lost the argument on policy and so have reverted to standard Labour behavior - call everyone who disagrees with you racist, and play the man.
If Doreen Lawrence had become a tory peer, she would currently be subject to a campaign against her on twitter with the left frantically trying to dig up some dirt on her. It's that shallow and that tribal at the moment but, hopefully, it appears to be having no traction whatsoever.
Neil..I dont think the vans were used for anything but touring around with the message board, not aware they had personnel on board who stopped and questioned anyone, do you have any ptoof of that..
hard to believe the UK is circling the drain and we have days of inane rubbish on here about why it is bad to try and catch criminals and how it upsets poor old Asian/Black / etc / etc If you do not like it move to Scotland.
In a July 2013 blog post for the website of The Telegraph, journalist Sean Thomas noted that the original Charlene Downes article on the online encyclopaedia Wikipedia had been deleted; he claimed this had happened in a way which might indicate editorial bias as to "racialised" murders of whites, which, supposedly, receive less media coverage in comparison to similar murders of black and minority ethnic victims.
Lots of semi-colons; only one full-stop. Maybe....
In a July 2013 blog post for the website of The Telegraph, journalist Sean Thomas noted that the original Charlene Downes article on the online encyclopaedia Wikipedia had been deleted. His claim was that this had happened in a way which might indicate editorial bias as to "racialised" murders of whites ,* which, supposedly, receive less media coverage in comparison to similar murders of black and minority ethnic victims.
Would soothe my pendantcy. It's a bit like C++ inline-functions; why...?
When I read Fluffy Thoughts posts I'm reminded of the story of the Queen visiting a lunatic asylum. After an inmate had shown her round the Queen asked "and may I ask why you are in here?".
"Many years ago I had some issues of paranoia but they are long in the past and now I'm quite well again".
"Well I must say you strike me as completely normal. I'm going to speak to the authorities" said the Queen.
"Oh thank you ma'am! I really appreciate it."
As she was leaving the inmate said "thank you so much ma'am. You won't forget will you?"
"No I won't forget"
"Are you sure"
"Yes I'm sure"
At which point he gave her a huge kick up her backside
Whilst Clegg would look best in swimming trunks and take his wife to a nudist beach, EdM would leave his passport at home... and Cameron would be a BBQ king.
There seems to a meme running through the posts on here by Carlotta and Plato that because there is a ( relatively small ) majority in the polls that think the vans were not racist and supported the actions then they cannot be . This is governing by opinion poll . It is like justifying Hitler's treatment of the Jews because say 52% of Germans agreed with his policy and 48% only opposed . Some things are simply wrong whatever the net public opinion of them is . FWIW I did not think the poster vans were racist simply crass .
Comparing today's Britain to Germany in the 1930s isn't on.
When I read Fluffy Thoughts posts I'm reminded of the story of the Queen visiting a lunatic asylum. After an inmate had shown her round the Queen asked "and may I ask why you are in here?".
"Many years ago I had some issues of paranoia but they are long in the past and now I'm quite well again".
"Well I must say you strike me as completely normal. I'm going to speak to the authorities" said the Queen.
"Oh thank you ma'am! I really appreciate it."
As she was leaving the inmate said "thank you so much ma'am. You won't forget will you?"
"No I won't forget"
"Are you sure"
"Yes I'm sure"
At which point he gave her a huge kick up her backside
"now you won't forget will you!"
Link and dates Wodger, links and dates. PB-anecdotes are not seen as acceptable dontcha'-know....
WRT to the illegal immigration vans, I've yet to hear a reasoned argument as to why these are any different from advertising campaigns warning against the consequences of drink driving or not paying the TV licence.
It is advising law breakers of the consequences of law breaking.
The mock outrage from the left merely demonstrates the extent to which they have lost the argument on policy and so have reverted to standard Labour behavior - call everyone who disagrees with you racist, and play the man.
If Doreen Lawrence had become a tory peer, she would currently be subject to a campaign against her on twitter with the left frantically trying to dig up some dirt on her. It's that shallow and that tribal at the moment but, hopefully, it appears to be having no traction whatsoever.
Right-wing victimhood is such a glorious thing. And so appealing.
On topic, Mike seems to have hit the nail on the head. EdM is personally toxic; the Conservative Party as a whole is. The Tories need a Cameron v Miliband contest in 2015; Labour needs it to be one between the parties.
There seems to a meme running through the posts on here by Carlotta and Plato that because there is a ( relatively small ) majority in the polls that think the vans were not racist and supported the actions then they cannot be . This is governing by opinion poll . It is like justifying Hitler's treatment of the Jews because say 52% of Germans agreed with his policy and 48% only opposed . Some things are simply wrong whatever the net public opinion of them is . FWIW I did not think the poster vans were racist simply crass .
Comparing today's Britain to Germany in the 1930s isn't on.
SO Where is the Right wing "victimhood".can you be rather more explicit.. posts etc.. sometimes your sweeping statements are a little ambiguous and misleading
SO Where is the Right wing "victimhood".can you be rather more explicit.. posts etc.. sometimes your sweeping statements are a little ambiguous and misleading
I enjoyed your post yesterday in which you claimed you had been called a racist and a xenophobe.
He was IIRC The Professor [not to be confused with @ProfessorDavey] and also ColinW's Mum to get discussion going during quiet periods or when he was a bit bored and feeling mischievous...
There seems to a meme running through the posts on here by Carlotta and Plato that because there is a ( relatively small ) majority in the polls that think the vans were not racist and supported the actions then they cannot be . This is governing by opinion poll . It is like justifying Hitler's treatment of the Jews because say 52% of Germans agreed with his policy and 48% only opposed . Some things are simply wrong whatever the net public opinion of them is . FWIW I did not think the poster vans were racist simply crass .
Comparing today's Britain to Germany in the 1930s isn't on.
Agree,the post was a disgrace.
I know what senior is up to,he's been on before trying to compare Nazi Germany and the crack down on illegal immigration.
He was IIRC The Professor [not to be confused with @ProfessorDavey] and also ColinW's Mum to get discussion going during quiet periods or when he was a bit bored and feeling mischievous...
Plato,I like the lady withering,she never puts me as a troll ;-) here's hoping ;-)
He was IIRC The Professor [not to be confused with @ProfessorDavey] and also ColinW's Mum to get discussion going during quiet periods or when he was a bit bored and feeling mischievous...
Plato,I like the lady withering,she never puts me as a troll ;-) here's hoping ;-)
He didnt actually say or even imply that Britain today is like Germany in the 1930s.
Oh come on Neil. any mention of Nazi Germany in the same post as the current government policy on immigration is a de facto comparison.
Surely mentioning Nazis is just so OTT that it requires much mockery.
That Huhne compared Hague to a German skinhead [but cut it from his own speech after press releasing it] just speaks volumes when it comes to finger pointing/log in your own eye.
He didnt actually say or even imply that Britain today is like Germany in the 1930s.
Oh come on Neil. any mention of Nazi Germany in the same post as the current government policy on immigration is a de facto comparison.
How about: "Government policy on immigration is nothing like Nazi Germany's policies"?
How about you becoming tim for the day,it's the same crap tim would have come out with.
In my book all this moaning from some of the PB right about being called Nazis, racists and xenophobes - when no-one has actually said anything of the kind - is rather crap. It's the same old story every time immigration is discussed on here.
He didnt actually say or even imply that Britain today is like Germany in the 1930s.
Oh come on Neil. any mention of Nazi Germany in the same post as the current government policy on immigration is a de facto comparison.
How about: "Government policy on immigration is nothing like Nazi Germany's policies"?
How about you becoming tim for the day,it's the same crap tim would have come out with.
In my book all this moaning from some of the PB right about being called Nazis, racists and xenophobes - when no-one has actually said anything of the kind - is rather crap. It's the same old story every time immigration is discussed on here.
Is this a serious post or secretly mr SO you having a laugh.
Not sure why some of the PB Tories are trying to claim this debate on spot checks is Tory vs Lab/Lib Dem When it broke all the intelligent Tories were making the same points as the centre left
Immigration again tim,when you going to post about the economy ?
"David Cameron's new star signing, the election strategist behind President Barack Obama's victories, has become embroiled in allegations of a homophobic past just days into his appointment.
Jim Messina, who managed the Obama campaigns in 2008 and 2012, was on Saturday night dealing with allegations – first made in 2002, repeated in 2012 and now being retold on Twitter – that he was behind what has become known as the most homophobic political advert in US history. Messina was unveiled as a consultant to the Tory party on Friday.
The damaging allegations date from Messina's time as chief of staff for Democrat senator Max Baucus of Montana, just over a decade ago. He allegedly put together a political advert in which a rival candidate, Mike Taylor, was shown applying lotion to a man's face, then appearing to reach towards the man's groin, while a voiceover said: "Not the way we do business in Montana."
The footage of Taylor had been taken from an advert for the politician's hairdressing business. The Denver Post reported at the time: "Only the most naive adult would miss the implication that Taylor is a homosexual … The supposedly inclusive Democrats deftly played on the right's homophobia."
He didnt actually say or even imply that Britain today is like Germany in the 1930s.
Oh come on Neil. any mention of Nazi Germany in the same post as the current government policy on immigration is a de facto comparison.
How about: "Government policy on immigration is nothing like Nazi Germany's policies"?
How about you becoming tim for the day,it's the same crap tim would have come out with.
In my book all this moaning from some of the PB right about being called Nazis, racists and xenophobes - when no-one has actually said anything of the kind - is rather crap. It's the same old story every time immigration is discussed on here.
Is this a serious post or secretly mr SO you having a laugh.
As I said previously, I do find right-wing victimhood amusing.
There seems to a meme running through the posts on here by Carlotta and Plato that because there is a ( relatively small ) majority in the polls that think the vans were not racist and supported the actions then they cannot be . This is governing by opinion poll . It is like justifying Hitler's treatment of the Jews because say 52% of Germans agreed with his policy and 48% only opposed . Some things are simply wrong whatever the net public opinion of them is . FWIW I did not think the poster vans were racist simply crass .
Comparing today's Britain to Germany in the 1930s isn't on.
If you read my post carefully , I was not making a comparison between Britain to Germany in the 1930's , I was making a point about justifying policies simply by quoting what a relatively small majority of the public think in an opinion poll .
There is a poster on here who I will not respond to directly. The last I tried to address his post he responded in a manner that suggested he was close to a nervous-breakdown. People, pleaase be careful with the more timid and challenged amongst us: No names, no pack-drill....
I think Farage playing the race card is a mistake.
It's been used as a means of dismissing concerns over immigration in the past, and it tends to be a first response rather than last resort by those who don't want to discuss the matter and simply want to shut the debate down.
There may be some issues (not with the vans, but those stopped and searched), but that's far from certain. Hurling around terms like racist, xenophobe and bigot at the drop of a hat is not impressive.
I'd also repeat a question I posed yesterday: imagine the Government has heard of illegal immigrants from Pakistan in area X. The Home Office dispatches rozzers to try and find them. They stop and search a few hundred people, most or all of whom are of Asian ethnicity. Does that count as racist, racial profiling, or intelligence-led action?
Similarly, racial profiling would seem valid in other cases, notably terrorism. If the Holy Swords of Martyrdom Brigade has threatened to blow up a building then the chaps you're looking for are likely to be bearded, Asian, men, probably 30 or under. Stopping old white ladies or Chinese grandfathers is unlikely to lead to the culprit. It's not 100%, of course. White converts (but still likely bearded, men and 30 or under) have taken part, or sought to, in such acts.
I'm not entirely comfortable with the police stopping people asking "Wo sind deine Papieren, bitte?", however. We need to consider if it works. Hopefully we'll end up with some stats regarding those who have been stopped and searched, regarding criminality including illegal immigration.
Sorry, bit of a rambly post.
Unless I have read things completely wrong, people on here have misread a post from tim...
Farage hasn't mentioned race, his "politics of the gutter' comment was regarding Crosby looking to covertly attck Ukip, and the "I've never called anyone racist" quote was by Derek Laud in a seperate article which has nothing to do with Farage or ukip
I think Farage playing the race card is a mistake.
It's been used as a means of dismissing concerns over immigration in the past, and it tends to be a first response rather than last resort by those who don't want to discuss the matter and simply want to shut the debate down.
There may be some issues (not with the vans, but those stopped and searched), but that's far from certain. Hurling around terms like racist, xenophobe and bigot at the drop of a hat is not impressive.
I'd also repeat a question I posed yesterday: imagine the Government has heard of illegal immigrants from Pakistan in area X. The Home Office dispatches rozzers to try and find them. They stop and search a few hundred people, most or all of whom are of Asian ethnicity. Does that count as racist, racial profiling, or intelligence-led action?
Similarly, racial profiling would seem valid in other cases, notably terrorism. If the Holy Swords of Martyrdom Brigade has threatened to blow up a building then the chaps you're looking for are likely to be bearded, Asian, men, probably 30 or under. Stopping old white ladies or Chinese grandfathers is unlikely to lead to the culprit. It's not 100%, of course. White converts (but still likely bearded, men and 30 or under) have taken part, or sought to, in such acts.
I'm not entirely comfortable with the police stopping people asking "Wo sind deine Papieren, bitte?", however. We need to consider if it works. Hopefully we'll end up with some stats regarding those who have been stopped and searched, regarding criminality including illegal immigration.
Sorry, bit of a rambly post.
Unless I have read things completely wrong, people on here have misread a post from tim...
Farage hasn't mentioned race, his "politics of the gutter' comment was regarding Crosby looking to covertly attck Ukip, and the "I've never called anyone racist" quote was by Derek Laud in a seperate article which has nothing to do with Farage or ukip
What is reasonably confusing Kippers is that Nigel is jumping to the Left of their opinion. The vans aren't racist according to 90% of their voters polled by YouGov.
I really can't see his point here unless he's pitching for another cohort of voters that aren't obvious.
I think Farage playing the race card is a mistake.
It's been used as a means of dismissing concerns over immigration in the past, and it tends to be a first response rather than last resort by those who don't want to discuss the matter and simply want to shut the debate down.
There may be some issues (not with the vans, but those stopped and searched), but that's far from certain. Hurling around terms like racist, xenophobe and bigot at the drop of a hat is not impressive.
I'd also repeat a question I posed yesterday: imagine the Government has heard of illegal immigrants from Pakistan in area X. The Home Office dispatches rozzers to try and find them. They stop and search a few hundred people, most or all of whom are of Asian ethnicity. Does that count as racist, racial profiling, or intelligence-led action?
Similarly, racial profiling would seem valid in other cases, notably terrorism. If the Holy Swords of Martyrdom Brigade has threatened to blow up a building then the chaps you're looking for are likely to be bearded, Asian, men, probably 30 or under. Stopping old white ladies or Chinese grandfathers is unlikely to lead to the culprit. It's not 100%, of course. White converts (but still likely bearded, men and 30 or under) have taken part, or sought to, in such acts.
I'm not entirely comfortable with the police stopping people asking "Wo sind deine Papieren, bitte?", however. We need to consider if it works. Hopefully we'll end up with some stats regarding those who have been stopped and searched, regarding criminality including illegal immigration.
Sorry, bit of a rambly post.
Unless I have read things completely wrong, people on here have misread a post from tim...
Farage hasn't mentioned race, his "politics of the gutter' comment was regarding Crosby looking to covertly attck Ukip, and the "I've never called anyone racist" quote was by Derek Laud in a seperate article which has nothing to do with Farage or ukip
What is reasonably confusing Kippers is that Nigel is jumping to the Left of their opinion. The vans aren't racist according to 90% of their voters polled by YouGov.
I really can't see his point here unless he's pitching for another cohort of voters that aren't obvious.
I don't think he said the vans were racist though, did he?
There seems to a meme running through the posts on here by Carlotta and Plato that because there is a ( relatively small ) majority in the polls that think the vans were not racist and supported the actions then they cannot be . This is governing by opinion poll . It is like justifying Hitler's treatment of the Jews because say 52% of Germans agreed with his policy and 48% only opposed . Some things are simply wrong whatever the net public opinion of them is . FWIW I did not think the poster vans were racist simply crass .
Comparing today's Britain to Germany in the 1930s isn't on.
If you read my post carefully , I was not making a comparison between Britain to Germany in the 1930's , I was making a point about justifying policies simply by quoting what a relatively small majority of the public think in an opinion poll .
You mr senior have been trying before to compare Nazi Germany to the crack down on *ILLEGAL* immigration like this one from you -
We should send Sunil and his mother out around London stations and they can report back how they feel about this introduction of SS tactics to the streets of this country .
Vince Cable made a fool of himself by comparing the Tories to Victorians who sent children up chimneys.
An alarmingly high number of Tories still seem to venerate the Victorian era. It's mystifying. Britain's surge ahead occurred from the late-18th century to the mid-19th. By the mid-Victorian period we were starting to fall behind the States and Bismarkian Germany post 1870.
"But it does raise a question that’s been bothering Tristrams for some time: what is the point of Channel 4? It has lost its role of being the smart young modern vision of high-low culture and turned into a car-boot sale of second-hand ideas and really unpleasant victim trolling. Its early-evening staples, cooking, house makeovers, light history and geography, are haemorrhaging audiences. It is now regularly being beaten in the ratings by Richard Desmond’s Channel 5. But a show on a man with 10st testicles gets 4m viewers. So it has to decide whether it’s going to race to the bottom and become a Victorian freak show, with a veil of access to minorities and a bucketful of irony that will stand in for taste and aesthetics.
The rest of us have to ask: do we really want or need a terrestrial subsidised channel that shows Shit Yourself Thin, Weird Things Doctors Find Up Front Bottoms, I Ate My Twin, Two Heads — Better Than One?, Sex Change Challenge, Mum’s Really My Sister and Women Who Love Donkeys Too Much?
...Mind you, talking of brands that have lost their identity, what on terrestrial TV was the BBC thinking of when it commissioned I Love My Country? And then, what was the cognitive process that allowed it actually to broadcast it? This wasn’t just competing with ITV on its own home patch, popular light entertainment. This tacky jumble of embarrassing jingoism was the type of programme nobody has made in this country for 30 years. Few things are as embarrassing as random expressions of unhinged patriotism. It’s essentially declaring your love for a busful of strangers, or kissing a pavement. It’s not something evolved communities in grown-up nations do...." http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/culture/film_and_tv/tv/article1294338.ece
Vince Cable made a fool of himself by comparing the Tories to Victorians who sent children up chimneys.
An alarmingly high number of Tories still seem to venerate the Victorian era. It's mystifying. Britain's surge ahead occurred from the late-18th century to the mid-19th. By the mid-Victorian period we were starting to fall behind the States and Bismarkian Germany post 1870.
Thank you. I never knew that I venerated the Victorian era. Must chide myself and turn away from being a nasty person.
Comments
Limmy @DaftLimmy
Imagine being a friend or fan of Caitlin Moran, having to justify her use of "spazz", "mong" and "retard" to yourself. The insanity.
What's the racial profiling at Kensal Green tube station got to do with Labour? It's the work MODERATED the Conservative party.
The Conservative party will always be viewed as a xenophobic party by ethnic minority voters - the events of this week have just confirmed that. I wonder what Aidan Burley thinks of the week's events?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/01/stella-creasy-mp-politics-twitter-tories
Some things are simply wrong whatever the net public opinion of them is .
FWIW I did not think the poster vans were racist simply crass .
Third Test:
Billy Knolls were offering 11/4 for the draw before the start of the match. I thought of off-setting it with meagre odds on an England win. The former would have resulted in a 60% return whilst the latter result would have covered my stake: I did not make the bet because of past Ozzie performances and an uncertain weather forecast....
Now, with a brilliant performance from the Crims and the current weather forecast I wish I had. Still have a lot to learn about this betting business....
It might have occurred to you to look at the UKIP website http://www.ukip.org/issues/policy-pages/immigration where you will see the UKIP policy is broadly a 5 year moratorium on permanent settlement, follwed by the introduiction of a points based system.
It's amazing how many people are falling foul of Godwin's Law today. Epic fail.
Whether this was by accident or design and whether it will do the Tories any good is a matter for debate but trying to embroil Labour into this is just without legs as they say in advertising.
For what it's worth my blinkered opinion tells me that it's the most inept piece of political positioning since Clegg became a quasi Tory and on a par with Blair joining forces with Bush in invading Iraq.
Now I know a lot of people are upset at being stopped and questioned by these vans but the operations at tube stations are important too.
My view is that the vans are harmless - they are simply asking criminals to desist from committing their crime - but an example of advertising that the Government should not be spending money on.
Of course Labour was much worse in this respect. I recall all the propaganda ads iin the national press stating how wonderful A Level students were, at a time when "how hard A Levels are" was a matter of current political controversy. Straightforward corruption - using taxpayers' own money to attempt to change our views.
What do you make of the current position in Syria? Nothing much seems to be happening?
Mark Senile thinks that all who disagree with him are Tories. Sad man, sad deluded man....
As for the vans I think you'll find Theresa May is a leading community artist, I fully expect her shock mobiles " Opening borders , closing minds" to tour our great cities and Ludlow before they find their final resting place in the Tate Modern. Now you want one don't you ? ;-)
I still see no reason why telling people they should stop committing a crime is so wrong.
More please. This applies to anyone who actually expresses an opinion that doesn't conform to what a LD or Labour voter thinks as decided by its PB mouthpieces.
I think poor Hortence Withering is as pained as a [Re-]Branded-Horse. Someone will put them out of their misery one day....
No, I'm going to have to confess to that, I'm not aware of any vans with Knightrider-esque abilities to stop and question people.
It is advising law breakers of the consequences of law breaking.
The mock outrage from the left merely demonstrates the extent to which they have lost the argument on policy and so have reverted to standard Labour behavior - call everyone who disagrees with you racist, and play the man.
If Doreen Lawrence had become a tory peer, she would currently be subject to a campaign against her on twitter with the left frantically trying to dig up some dirt on her. It's that shallow and that tribal at the moment but, hopefully, it appears to be having no traction whatsoever.
If you do not like it move to Scotland.
* Fricking dipthongs....
"Many years ago I had some issues of paranoia but they are long in the past and now I'm quite well again".
"Well I must say you strike me as completely normal. I'm going to speak to the authorities" said the Queen.
"Oh thank you ma'am! I really appreciate it."
As she was leaving the inmate said "thank you so much ma'am. You won't forget will you?"
"No I won't forget"
"Are you sure"
"Yes I'm sure"
At which point he gave her a huge kick up her backside
"now you won't forget will you!"
https://twitpic.com/show/full/d6g18k
Under Labour, vans were used to smuggle illegal immigrants into the country.
Under the Tories, they are being used to politely encourage voluntary departure.
On topic, Mike seems to have hit the nail on the head. EdM is personally toxic; the Conservative Party as a whole is. The Tories need a Cameron v Miliband contest in 2015; Labour needs it to be one between the parties.
He didnt actually say or even imply that Britain today is like Germany in the 1930s.
He was IIRC The Professor [not to be confused with @ProfessorDavey] and also ColinW's Mum to get discussion going during quiet periods or when he was a bit bored and feeling mischievous...
Oh come on Neil. any mention of Nazi Germany in the same post as the current government policy on immigration is a de facto comparison.
http://www.rogergale.com/content_manager/page.php?ID=104005&dbc=c119c97a57ac76bf924b729a4470d525
That Huhne compared Hague to a German skinhead [but cut it from his own speech after press releasing it] just speaks volumes when it comes to finger pointing/log in your own eye.
Jumping to speak for another? Heaven forfend!
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/04/tory-guru-jim-messina-homophobic-ad-row
"David Cameron's new star signing, the election strategist behind President Barack Obama's victories, has become embroiled in allegations of a homophobic past just days into his appointment.
Jim Messina, who managed the Obama campaigns in 2008 and 2012, was on Saturday night dealing with allegations – first made in 2002, repeated in 2012 and now being retold on Twitter – that he was behind what has become known as the most homophobic political advert in US history. Messina was unveiled as a consultant to the Tory party on Friday.
The damaging allegations date from Messina's time as chief of staff for Democrat senator Max Baucus of Montana, just over a decade ago. He allegedly put together a political advert in which a rival candidate, Mike Taylor, was shown applying lotion to a man's face, then appearing to reach towards the man's groin, while a voiceover said: "Not the way we do business in Montana."
The footage of Taylor had been taken from an advert for the politician's hairdressing business. The Denver Post reported at the time: "Only the most naive adult would miss the implication that Taylor is a homosexual … The supposedly inclusive Democrats deftly played on the right's homophobia."
http://www.crosbyherald.co.uk/news/crosby-news/2013/07/25/sefton-central-mp-bill-esterson-confirmed-as-labour-s-general-election-nomination-68459-33651531/
:tumbleweed:
Farage hasn't mentioned race, his "politics of the gutter' comment was regarding Crosby looking to covertly attck Ukip, and the "I've never called anyone racist" quote was by Derek Laud in a seperate article which has nothing to do with Farage or ukip
http://www.nedlab.org.uk/
I really can't see his point here unless he's pitching for another cohort of voters that aren't obvious.
The first declarations are likely to come from rural Sussex. Or perhaps even the Southern urban areas of Hampshire!
We should send Sunil and his mother out around London stations and they can report back how they feel about this introduction of SS tactics to the streets of this country .
http://ipswichspy.wordpress.com/tag/dr-dan-poulter-mp/
Confirmation:
http://www.dissexpress.co.uk/news/latest-news/mp-is-unanimously-backed-to-stay-on-1-5318954?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
"But it does raise a question that’s been bothering Tristrams for some time: what is the point of Channel 4? It has lost its role of being the smart young modern vision of high-low culture and turned into a car-boot sale of second-hand ideas and really unpleasant victim trolling. Its early-evening staples, cooking, house makeovers, light history and geography, are haemorrhaging audiences. It is now regularly being beaten in the ratings by Richard Desmond’s Channel 5. But a show on a man with 10st testicles gets 4m viewers. So it has to decide whether it’s going to race to the bottom and become a Victorian freak show, with a veil of access to minorities and a bucketful of irony that will stand in for taste and aesthetics.
The rest of us have to ask: do we really want or need a terrestrial subsidised channel that shows Shit Yourself Thin, Weird Things Doctors Find Up Front Bottoms, I Ate My Twin, Two Heads — Better Than One?, Sex Change Challenge, Mum’s Really My Sister and Women Who Love Donkeys Too Much?
...Mind you, talking of brands that have lost their identity, what on terrestrial TV was the BBC thinking of when it commissioned I Love My Country? And then, what was the cognitive process that allowed it actually to broadcast it? This wasn’t just competing with ITV on its own home patch, popular light entertainment. This tacky jumble of embarrassing jingoism was the type of programme nobody has made in this country for 30 years. Few things are as embarrassing as random expressions of unhinged patriotism. It’s essentially declaring your love for a busful of strangers, or kissing a pavement. It’s not something evolved communities in grown-up nations do...." http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/culture/film_and_tv/tv/article1294338.ece
For the Mirror's view of ILMC - its even worse - http://www.mirror.co.uk/opinion/lifestyle-opinion/love-country-bbcs-celebrity-panel-2120863
Can you please suggest how?