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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This session with new CON hire, Jim Messina, is well worth

SystemSystem Posts: 12,250
edited August 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This session with new CON hire, Jim Messina, is well worth watching

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  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    I hear IOS is terrified of his algorithms.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2013
    "It’s a good time to be a Tory in Westminster at present. Labour is under pressure. The backbench dissenters have been quietened. Aides, hacks and spinners exude an air of confidence when you meet them in SW1’s watering holes. Even Boris Johnson reckons that David Cameron could yet pull it off in 2015.

    Speaking of which, the party has captured the services of Jim Messina, a strategist who has worked with Barack Obama. He will whip CCHQ’s mercurial digital assets into shape and help to sell the government’s economic record.

    Aside from enjoying the benefit of Messina’s gifts, this is a PR coup for the ‘nasty party’. Observe the reaction of certain Labour figures:

    siôn simon @sionsimon

    Jim Messina either doesn't know or doesn't care what a malignant thing the Tory party is. Poor show either way. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/02/tories-hire-obama-election-strategist

    Meanwhile, this morning’s papers are full of ‘Unite run the Labour Party’ stories after yesterday’s MEP selection. The Tories have got one of Team Obama; Labour has got Len McCluskey."

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/08/the-tories-bag-jim-messina-for-2015/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-tories-bag-jim-messina-for-2015
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    GIGO applies here, doesn't it? The Obama team appointed their data guy for 2012 on November 6th, 2008. Where are the Tories going to get all this data from at short notice? They can't even keep a simple MSSQL database running so they know which doors to knock on.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    The MEP story is here

    "Unite is poised to increase its hold over the Labour Party after it emerged that the union had successfully put forward candidates to win crucial European seats next year. The union already says that eight out of Labour’s 13-strong contingent in the European parliament are “Unite MEPs”. In a development that prompted fresh claims that the union has too much power over the party, it was disclosed that Unite had all but guaranteed that more of its candidates would be handed £83,000-a-year jobs in Strasbourg.

    The Times revealed in April that senior Labour figures were concerned that Unite was attempting to “stitch up” the election process. They said that some popular candidates had been excluded to clear the way for those supported by the party’s biggest financial backer.

    It became clear yesterday that several more Unite candidates were in line to win a seat in the European parliament after next May’s elections. Some Labour members threatened to resign from the party in disgust." http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3833121.ece
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    Just watched the video...He talks about spending a billion dollars on Obama`s campaign...The British campaign is different...We`ll only know in the next year or so if he makes a significant difference
  • It's a great hire for the Tories, but with under two years before the next GE, a seemingly solid 35% or so for Labour and a very different electoral system to contend with I'm not sure he'll make a huge difference. But we shall see.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,089
    FPT:

    @AnotherDave

    UKIP did carry Forest of Dean in May. I don't know where you got the information from that they didn't.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    GIGO applies here, doesn't it? The Obama team appointed their data guy for 2012 on November 6th, 2008. Where are the Tories going to get all this data from at short notice? They can't even keep a simple MSSQL database running so they know which doors to knock on.

    Perhaps they've realised that and have employed someone who will make sure it doesn't happen again?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @EiT

    I think because the Tory's IT cocked up so spectacularly (according to reports) in the past they're going to be more careful to get it right now. This article suggests that they have been working on their systems ahead of this appointment (though it describes it mainly in the context of data protection issues):

    http://amberhawk.typepad.com/amberhawk/2013/03/could-the-conservative-partys-electoral-database-breach-the-data-protection-act.html

    I
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2013
    SMukesh said:

    Just watched the video...He talks about spending a billion dollars on Obama`s campaign...The British campaign is different...We`ll only know in the next year or so if he makes a significant difference

    The population of the UK is? It's size is? About that of Oregon. Comparing the money spent on a US POTUS campaign to a UK election is clearly nonsense.

    http://www.number10.gov.uk/output/Page84
    http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopag
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    I love the bit where he's talking about the various data-centric marketing techniques and says "we won because... well, we had a better candidate..." and everybody in the room laughs.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    @Plato
    With all due respect,even per capita the U.S spends a lot more than we do on election campaigns.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Andrea

    She never disappoints! I was unable to find her blog for a while, glad I can bookmark it again ;)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,299
    Plato said:


    The population of the UK is? It's size is? About that of Oregon. Comparing the money spent on a US POTUS campaign to a UK election is clearly nonsense.

    http://www.number10.gov.uk/output/Page84
    http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopag

    Err, Oregon has a population of around 4m, the UK has a population of 64m. Quite a large difference...
  • Q&A session in Broxtowe started 2 hours ago....
  • It may just be that the Tories hired Messina because they could. And he said yes because they met his fee. It's a good hire and if anyone can make a difference it is probably him. But I can't help thinking that some Tories and some Labour supporters are getting a little over-excited.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    On the A-B testing thing, I heard somewhere that the Obama campaign tested thousands of different email subjects and the one that got the best results (can't remember if it was donations or open rates) was:
    Hey
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2013
    MaxPB said:

    Plato said:


    The population of the UK is? It's size is? About that of Oregon. Comparing the money spent on a US POTUS campaign to a UK election is clearly nonsense.

    http://www.number10.gov.uk/output/Page84
    http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopag

    Err, Oregon has a population of around 4m, the UK has a population of 64m. Quite a large difference...
    Did you read the links? Comparing a USA campaign is clearly totally different re costs and geographical reach. As is the amount of £££ thrown at it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,089
    American election experts don't always prove a success when venturing into UK politics. For example, data wizard Nate Silver tried his hand at modelling the 2010 election with mixed results:

    http://politicalscrapbook.net/2012/11/nate-silver-predicted-uk-2010-general-election-wrong/

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/apr/27/nate-silver-labour-swing
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    It may just be that the Tories hired Messina because they could. And he said yes because they met his fee. It's a good hire and if anyone can make a difference it is probably him. But I can't help thinking that some Tories and some Labour supporters are getting a little over-excited.

    You seem to have missed this bit

    Allegra Stratton @BBCAllegra
    Jim Messina has just me his statement, which begins: "I have long admired Prime Minister Cameron." Quite an endorsement for the PM.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    @Plato
    Comeon,When a guy pays you a million dollars a year,the least you can say is you like the guy.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Was chatting to Ben from MORI earlier and he's going to publish a paper on the tricky nature of US vs UK pols later this year.

    I expect that Mr Crosby will be the message man and Mr Messina will get it packaged in the best way and to the right audinces.
    Andy_JS said:

    American election experts don't always prove a success when venturing into UK politics. For example, data wizard Nate Silver tried his hand at modelling the 2010 election with mixed results:

    http://politicalscrapbook.net/2012/11/nate-silver-predicted-uk-2010-general-election-wrong/

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/apr/27/nate-silver-labour-swing

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2013
    SMukesh said:

    @Plato
    Comeon,When a guy pays you a million dollars a year,the least you can say is you like the guy.

    How do you know what he's being paid? Linky?

    Is the man who helped Obama to win now some venal lacky who'll say and do anything?
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    @AnotherDave

    UKIP did carry Forest of Dean in May. I don't know where you got the information from that they didn't.

    I have seen figures that show they didn't . They certainly carried Forest Of Dean DC but the parliamentary seat includes part of Highnam division in Tewkesbury DC which UKIP did not contest .

  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    @Plato


    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/


    `Messina, who is working solely on the election campaign, and not on party policy, will report directly to Mr Cameron’s Australian election strategist Lynton Crosby, and Tory co-chairmen Grant Shapps and Lord Feldman. Sources said he ‘does not come cheap’ although he has ‘not yet’ cost the party £1million`

    `
  • Plato said:

    It may just be that the Tories hired Messina because they could. And he said yes because they met his fee. It's a good hire and if anyone can make a difference it is probably him. But I can't help thinking that some Tories and some Labour supporters are getting a little over-excited.

    You seem to have missed this bit

    Allegra Stratton @BBCAllegra
    Jim Messina has just me his statement, which begins: "I have long admired Prime Minister Cameron." Quite an endorsement for the PM.

    As opposed to saying "I charge a certain amount and the Conservative Party has agreed to pay me it". What else was he going to say? But it's a good hire, no doubt about it.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    edited August 2013
    Neil said:

    @EiT

    I think because the Tory's IT cocked up so spectacularly (according to reports) in the past they're going to be more careful to get it right now. This article suggests that they have been working on their systems ahead of this appointment (though it describes it mainly in the context of data protection issues):

    http://amberhawk.typepad.com/amberhawk/2013/03/could-the-conservative-partys-electoral-database-breach-the-data-protection-act.html

    I

    Dunno, reading that just makes me think they're going to get grifted again like Romney was. They've got some WHIZZ-KIDS using THE CLOUD!

    But apart from the fact that the Tories seem to be a day late and a billion dollars short, the Obama techniques need people at the sharp end who are comfortable with the technology. I think this was part of Romney's problem with the ORCA clusterfuck, too. For example, they sent out a URL without https:// at the beginning, and forgot to set up a page to bounce them from the http:// URL, so their activists couldn't figure out how to access the site. I reckon Obama's demographics would have figured that one out among themselves.

    Now, I don't want to stereotype, but look at the comments to the Carswell piece I posted on the last thread.
    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/07/idemocracy-and-a-new-model-party/
    'then along came the internet' which propagates an endless load of garbage. The internet is the death-knell of sanity and Carswell wants to bank his future on it.

    People used to join the Conservative party to play snooker
    PS. I think I recognize that guy.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    SMukesh said:

    @Plato


    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/


    `Messina, who is working solely on the election campaign, and not on party policy, will report directly to Mr Cameron’s Australian election strategist Lynton Crosby, and Tory co-chairmen Grant Shapps and Lord Feldman. Sources said he ‘does not come cheap’ although he has ‘not yet’ cost the party £1million`

    `

    Pity Unite didn't cough up for him then!
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    edited August 2013
    SMukesh said:

    @Plato

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/

    `Messina, who is working solely on the election campaign, and not on party policy, will report directly to Mr Cameron’s Australian election strategist Lynton Crosby, and Tory co-chairmen Grant Shapps and Lord Feldman. Sources said he ‘does not come cheap’ although he has ‘not yet’ cost the party £1million`

    This is the other problem: While Messina is giving advice from the US, who is executing on it on the ground? It's not going to be much help if all his clever ideas are filtered through an old duffer whose main expertise is in winning elections in Australia in the 1990s.

    On the plus side I suppose Messina will help attract smart people on the UK who want the experience of working with him, but if they're only hiring these people now, they're already doing it wrong.
  • They have started voting in Broxtowe
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Another perfect Mail story

    A violent prisoner has had a free sex change operation on the NHS which will cost taxpayers £10,000, it has emerged.

    Alan Baker is now in the vulnerable ­prisoner wing at Elmley jail on the Isle of Sheppey, Kent, calling himself Sarah.

    Once the 43-year-old's controversial gender change has been completed, he will be transferred to a women’s prison.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2383992/Violent-inmate-Alan-Baker-given-10-000-sex-change-NHS.html#ixzz2audmud2S
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,089
    edited August 2013

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    @AnotherDave

    UKIP did carry Forest of Dean in May. I don't know where you got the information from that they didn't.

    I have seen figures that show they didn't . They certainly carried Forest Of Dean DC but the parliamentary seat includes part of Highnam division in Tewkesbury DC which UKIP did not contest .

    The Highnam with Haw Bridge ward only has an electorate of about 3,700 and so turnout would have been about 1,300 at most looking at the CC division. It's therefore unlikely the 1,000 vote lead UKIP had in the FoD council area would have been overturned even though they had no candidate:

    http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm70/7032/7032_ii.pdf

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dGxDZjhmTEpGcTVUS2ktVG1JUmVlRFE

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/forestofdean/

    Survation put the result as follows:

    UKIP: 6247
    Con: 6039
    Lab: 5510

    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Survation-Locals-Analysis-UKIP-Section.xls
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    the Tories seem to be a day late and a billion dollars short

    I would be surprised if the Tories werent funded to enable them to do everything they want to do in this campaign.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    SMukesh said:

    @Plato

    http://conservativehome.blogs.com/

    `Messina, who is working solely on the election campaign, and not on party policy, will report directly to Mr Cameron’s Australian election strategist Lynton Crosby, and Tory co-chairmen Grant Shapps and Lord Feldman. Sources said he ‘does not come cheap’ although he has ‘not yet’ cost the party £1million`

    This is the other problem: While Messina is giving advice from the US, who is executing on it on the ground? It's not going to be much help if all his clever ideas are filtered through an old duffer whose main expertise is in winning elections in Australia in the 1990s.

    On the plus side I suppose Messina will help attract smart people on the UK who want the experience of working with him, but if they're only hiring these people now, they're already doing it wrong.
    So basically with 21 months to go, Mr Messina is an expensive mistake and waste of time who never really was Democrat as he works for the Evil Tories now.

    Glad we've got that clear!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,089
    Betfair odds for Old Trafford:

    England 14/1
    Australia 5/2
    Draw 4/11

    http://www.betfair.com/sport/cricket/event?eventId=27027045
  • Nick Palmer wins on first ballot. Greg Marshall second
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited August 2013
    FPT

    @Alanbrooke

    Were you travelling to or from NI? If so, given what was happening there, and on the mainland, stopping you was perfectly reasonable and was something that everyone would have gone through. Equally, no-one can hear your accent until you're stopped an so by definition we are talking about a random stop, which again everyone can suffer. Neither applies in Max's case. Those of us who are white skinned and "look" British are not going to get stopped on suspicion of being illegally in the UK. It is not an inconvenience we will all go through. There will be nothing for us to get over. And, what's more, if it's been going on for 10 years it's clearly not working as a deterrent, while the numbers of illegals actually caught are miniscule. Instead, British citizens such as Max are being made potential targets for grubby reasons by politicians who are failing to do their jobs properly.

    SO

    Take care. You are descending to the depths of Surbiton who spent the whole of yesterday complaining about "burly" police officers at London Underground stations.

    Facts and evidence are important. The only video we had of UKBA officers was from Southall: the WPC was short and petite and the greying PC looked more undernourished than Mark Senior. "Burly" they were not.

    As your claim that the UKBA do not catch illegals this is contradicted by official statistics. What has changed over the past three years when compared with nearly a decade ago is that there has been a significant fall in forced repatriations offset by an equivalent rise in voluntary departures.
    UKBA: Removals and voluntary departures      

    Total Total Total refused
    enforced voluntary entry at port
    removals departures and departed


    2004 21,425 3,566 36,167
    2005 20,808 7,601 29,807
    2006 19,372 12,599 31,896
    2007 17,770 14,452 31,145
    2008 17,239 18,375 32,367
    2009 15,252 22,800 29,162
    2010 14,854 27,114 18,276
    2011 15,063 26,419 15,700
    2012 14,435 28,791 13,529
    "Nasty", "burly" Tories!
  • Andy_JS said:

    Betfair odds for Old Trafford:

    England 14/1
    Australia 5/2
    Draw 4/11

    http://www.betfair.com/sport/cricket/event?eventId=27027045

    Blimey, those Aussie odds are enticing. What's the weather forecast like? That can be the only explanation for the price on the draw. If there's no significant rain the Aussies surely must be massive favourites given England's poor batting under pressure.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Nick Palmer wins on first ballot. Greg Marshall second

    I hope Nick won't fall on PV transfers, Andrea!

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,089
    Congratulations to Nick.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited August 2013
    @Avery

    He polled over 50% in the first ballot. It's finished. All over. He is now taking pics surrounded by activists with placards
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    Meanwhile just watching a thing about election technology in Japan, it turns out the Communist Party have an animation department.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    Banzai
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,089
    I've decided to be patriotic and put £10 on England.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Plato said:

    SMukesh said:

    @Plato
    Comeon,When a guy pays you a million dollars a year,the least you can say is you like the guy.

    How do you know what he's being paid? Linky?

    Is the man who helped Obama to win now some venal lacky who'll say and do anything?
    Surely Messina will be paid in Bitcoins.

  • @Avery

    I condemned both the Labour and Tory approach. The miniscule was in reference to highly-publicised random street checks.

    What's interesting from those figures is the number of illegals detained and deported at port under "open door" Labour. How is that possible, given that we have been told there were no immigration controls until 2010?
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited August 2013
    I agree with edmundintokyo that the Messina appointment is 2 years late. That said, Labour are probably 6 months behind the Conservatives in their preparation and may shortly be distracted by further internal wranglings over the Unions.
  • Well done NickP.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT:

    @AnotherDave

    UKIP did carry Forest of Dean in May. I don't know where you got the information from that they didn't.

    The "WRONGLY" was added by Mr Senior, not me.

  • Andy_JS said:

    I've decided to be patriotic and put £10 on England.

    Can I interest you in some magic beans I have? You plant them and they flower gold ingots just a few weeks later. Honest!

  • The news about Unite having the first ranked candidate in most of the Labour MEP selections does beg the question about what will Ed M do about it? There will be a lot of aggrieved Blairite/Progress people in senior positions in the party. After the unions stitch up of the Leadership election, is this latest "achievement", the spark that starts a fire?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2013
    AveryLP said:

    Plato said:

    SMukesh said:

    @Plato
    Comeon,When a guy pays you a million dollars a year,the least you can say is you like the guy.

    How do you know what he's being paid? Linky?

    Is the man who helped Obama to win now some venal lacky who'll say and do anything?
    Surely Messina will be paid in Bitcoins.

    I just find it all so immensely amusing. Tories take on Obama's saviour and all of a sudden he's not some great campaigner but an Evil Capitalist who's been bought off and will give quotes about anything because he has no scruples, and even if he's competent will make no difference 21 months out because the Tories don't have the data to work from.

    But LabourList implored Obama to stop him being employed in this role using Twitter - after spending the entire entire week wringing their hands about abusing people and then try to intimidate this chappy.

    It's just brilliant Thick Of It stuff. Scared much? Clearly "very spooked" as Allegra Stratton that well known Tory on Newsnight described it.

    Interesting view from the US Newsweek and Beast chap. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/10220425/American-Way-can-Jim-Messina-do-for-David-Cameron-what-he-did-for-Barack-Obama.html
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,299
    Plato said:

    MaxPB said:

    Plato said:


    The population of the UK is? It's size is? About that of Oregon. Comparing the money spent on a US POTUS campaign to a UK election is clearly nonsense.

    http://www.number10.gov.uk/output/Page84
    http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopag

    Err, Oregon has a population of around 4m, the UK has a population of 64m. Quite a large difference...
    Did you read the links? Comparing a USA campaign is clearly totally different re costs and geographical reach. As is the amount of £££ thrown at it.
    No. US campaigns are expensive because they allow direct TV campaigns and for parties/candidates to buy airtime on networks off their own back. The stump campaign and speeches are not very expensive, it's the massive ad-buying on national and local TV and radio networks that balloons costs up to the figures we are talking about. That kind of campaigning is not admissible in the UK so the cost of the campaign will not be anything like what is seen on the other side of the Atlantic. It has nothing to do with the size of the country, but all to do with population and reach, and in the UK reach is much harder but cheaper via billboard adverts and such rather than TV and radio.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    edited August 2013
    AveryLP said:

    Plato said:

    SMukesh said:

    @Plato
    Comeon,When a guy pays you a million dollars a year,the least you can say is you like the guy.

    How do you know what he's being paid? Linky?

    Is the man who helped Obama to win now some venal lacky who'll say and do anything?
    Surely Messina will be paid in Bitcoins.

    Paying in bitcoins might actually be a good way to attract some smart, dedicated, ferociously right-wing developers who will actually build something useful for them instead of charging by the buzzword. If they put Carswell in charge of their digital strategy, which they should, I could see him doing it...
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited August 2013

    @Avery

    I condemned both the Labour and Tory approach. The miniscule was in reference to highly-publicised random street checks.

    What's interesting from those figures is the number of illegals detained and deported at port under "open door" Labour. How is that possible, given that we have been told there were no immigration controls until 2010?

    SO

    I was part using your post to get at Surby's "burly" policemen.

    Here is a trend chart showing trends in work related immigration going back to 2005:

    https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/image_data/file/11439/work1-q1-2013.jpg

    On non-work related immigration there has been a substantial fall in asylum applications over this period, part due to new legislation and policy but mostly due to a quietening of international conflict over the period.

    On your point about immigration controls before 2010, I am sure they were in place, but didn't the government then in office spent all its time on increasing borrowing?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    @Avery

    He polled over 50% in the first ballot. It's finished. All over. He is now taking pics surrounded by activists with placards

    No comely left-wing girls?

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587

    Nick Palmer wins on first ballot. Greg Marshall second

    As predicted Andrea gets there before me! Yes, a very large margin. On to 2015!

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Nick Palmer wins on first ballot. Greg Marshall second

    As predicted Andrea gets there before me! Yes, a very large margin. On to 2015!

    Congratulations to Nick from a UKIPer
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Messina is an interesting appointment for three reasons. First, it shows the Conservatives are serious about winning. Second, it brings home the American interest in what they loosely term 'analytics' -- following the numbers. It is not just "moneyball" any more; companies in all sectors are increasingly data-led. Analysis is often pretty crude but still well ahead of British competitors.

    Third, what of the internal Conservative Party dynamics? Is Messina an Osborne signing? Isn't social media supposed to be Shapps's baby? If Shapps were in the Cabinet, I'd be looking at prices for his departing as Party Chairman.
  • @Nick

    How many Unions are you member of?! Cancel all memberships and take up the Musicians Union. They can't be accused of any take over.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Nick Palmer wins on first ballot. Greg Marshall second

    As predicted Andrea gets there before me! Yes, a very large margin. On to 2015!

    Congratulations, Nick.

    Now, about the photo .....


    .... is there anything you can do to help?

  • Plato said:

    AveryLP said:

    Plato said:

    SMukesh said:

    @Plato
    Comeon,When a guy pays you a million dollars a year,the least you can say is you like the guy.

    How do you know what he's being paid? Linky?

    Is the man who helped Obama to win now some venal lacky who'll say and do anything?
    Surely Messina will be paid in Bitcoins.

    I just find it all so immensely amusing. Tories take on Obama's saviour and all of a sudden he's not some great campaigner but an Evil Capitalist who's been bought off and will give quotes about anything because he has no scruples, and even if he's competent will make no difference 21 months out because the Tories don't have the data to work from.

    But LabourList implored Obama to stop him being employed in this role using Twitter - after spending the entire entire week wringing their hands about abusing people and then try to intimidate this chappy.

    It's just brilliant Thick Of It stuff. Scared much? Clearly "very spooked" as Allegra Stratton that well known Tory on Newsnight described it.

    Interesting view from the US Newsweek and Beast chap. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/10220425/American-Way-can-Jim-Messina-do-for-David-Cameron-what-he-did-for-Barack-Obama.html

    More amusing is the idea that his appointment represents an Obama endorsement of Cameron or that he is not doing it for the money. It's a great hire for the Tories and great business for Messina. Those reading more into it on the Labour and Tory side are being being ever so slightly foolish.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    Plato said:

    SMukesh said:

    @Plato
    Comeon,When a guy pays you a million dollars a year,the least you can say is you like the guy.

    How do you know what he's being paid? Linky?

    Is the man who helped Obama to win now some venal lacky who'll say and do anything?
    Surely Messina will be paid in Bitcoins.

    Paying in bitcoins might actually be a good way to attract some smart, dedicated, ferociously right-wing developers who will actually build something useful for them instead of charging by the buzzword. If they put Carswell in charge of their digital strategy, which they should, I could see him doing it...
    I am all for cloud sourcing, Edmondo.

    Especially as it would stop civil servants setting up committees "to communicate project ownership and improve messaging to staff and stakeholders".

    But isn't bitcoin a little too volatile? A currency is mostly there to support exchange of value not promote investment risk.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    Plato said:

    AveryLP said:

    Plato said:

    SMukesh said:

    @Plato
    Comeon,When a guy pays you a million dollars a year,the least you can say is you like the guy.

    How do you know what he's being paid? Linky?

    Is the man who helped Obama to win now some venal lacky who'll say and do anything?
    Surely Messina will be paid in Bitcoins.

    I just find it all so immensely amusing. Tories take on Obama's saviour and all of a sudden he's not some great campaigner but an Evil Capitalist who's been bought off and will give quotes about anything because he has no scruples, and even if he's competent will make no difference 21 months out because the Tories don't have the data to work from.

    But LabourList implored Obama to stop him being employed in this role using Twitter - after spending the entire entire week wringing their hands about abusing people and then try to intimidate this chappy.

    It's just brilliant Thick Of It stuff. Scared much? Clearly "very spooked" as Allegra Stratton that well known Tory on Newsnight described it.

    Interesting view from the US Newsweek and Beast chap. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/10220425/American-Way-can-Jim-Messina-do-for-David-Cameron-what-he-did-for-Barack-Obama.html

    More amusing is the idea that his appointment represents an Obama endorsement of Cameron or that he is not doing it for the money. It's a great hire for the Tories and great business for Messina. Those reading more into it on the Labour and Tory side are being being ever so slightly foolish.
    I don't suppose the conservative angle will do him any harm if he runs for office in Montana in future. Axelrod was tweeting that he should. (Although he may have been joking, I'm not sure.)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,089
    Looking at Labour's top 20 targets, the only one still without a candidate is Bradford East.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    It's got nothing to do with an Obama endorsement - most Tories would run away at the prospect.

    It's the annoyance that's clearly been generated for Labour. And the huffy petulance that Mr Messina belongs to them and isn't allowed to work for anyone they disapprove of. When a normally sensible chap like Mark Ferguson sends out a plea to 11000 for Obama to stop this and says that the Obama supporters group will be upset - they're clearly rattled in a most public way.

    You can dismiss this loftily but its there in spades already. As BBCAllegra said "spooked".

    Plato said:

    AveryLP said:

    Plato said:

    SMukesh said:

    @Plato
    Comeon,When a guy pays you a million dollars a year,the least you can say is you like the guy.

    How do you know what he's being paid? Linky?

    Is the man who helped Obama to win now some venal lacky who'll say and do anything?
    Surely Messina will be paid in Bitcoins.

    I just find it all so immensely amusing. Tories take on Obama's saviour and all of a sudden he's not some great campaigner but an Evil Capitalist who's been bought off and will give quotes about anything because he has no scruples, and even if he's competent will make no difference 21 months out because the Tories don't have the data to work from.

    But LabourList implored Obama to stop him being employed in this role using Twitter - after spending the entire entire week wringing their hands about abusing people and then try to intimidate this chappy.

    It's just brilliant Thick Of It stuff. Scared much? Clearly "very spooked" as Allegra Stratton that well known Tory on Newsnight described it.

    Interesting view from the US Newsweek and Beast chap. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/10220425/American-Way-can-Jim-Messina-do-for-David-Cameron-what-he-did-for-Barack-Obama.html

    More amusing is the idea that his appointment represents an Obama endorsement of Cameron or that he is not doing it for the money. It's a great hire for the Tories and great business for Messina. Those reading more into it on the Labour and Tory side are being being ever so slightly foolish.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,089
    O/T:

    When I placed my bet on England about 45 minutes ago they were 14/1. They're now 11/1.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    In the US, such appointments are commonplace. David Gergen served both Reagan and Clinton.

    he infamous Dick Morris served Republicans and Cliton and then became one of the Clintons' harshest critic.

    He predicted a Romney landslide too ! So much for these "experts".
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    To lighten the mood - a terrific photobomb spoof

    http://t.co/QXqmhPavNp
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    edited August 2013
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    Plato said:

    SMukesh said:

    @Plato
    Comeon,When a guy pays you a million dollars a year,the least you can say is you like the guy.

    How do you know what he's being paid? Linky?

    Is the man who helped Obama to win now some venal lacky who'll say and do anything?
    Surely Messina will be paid in Bitcoins.

    Paying in bitcoins might actually be a good way to attract some smart, dedicated, ferociously right-wing developers who will actually build something useful for them instead of charging by the buzzword. If they put Carswell in charge of their digital strategy, which they should, I could see him doing it...
    I am all for cloud sourcing, Edmondo.

    Especially as it would stop civil servants setting up committees "to communicate project ownership and improve messaging to staff and stakeholders".

    But isn't bitcoin a little too volatile? A currency is mostly there to support exchange of value not promote investment risk.
    People on the techno-libertarian right aren't generally worried about the volatility because they think it will go up in the long-term, as people discover that the government can't be trusted to run currencies. I don't think these people are right about that, but the fact is that some of these people are very smart. The Tories should pay them in whatever it takes to hire them. If they want to get paid in goats, give them goats.

    For non-bonkers purposes, the volatility is OK if it's just a little bit of money you use for online purchases. If it's not a big proportion of your net worth you don't mind the risk that it'll go down, as long as it's made up for by a chance that it'll go up. In practice prices get set in traditional currencies, then converted when you make the sale.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited August 2013
    Some in the Labour rank and file really are spooked by the Conservatives appointing Messina to work along with Crosby on the Conservative election campaign.

    LabourList - Raising our game: 5 things Labour can do to counter Messina

    "The Tories’ near-million pound hire of Jim Messina is a brilliant psy-op against Labour. We love Obama, we’re proud of our ground game, we dismiss the Tories. Why? Because we feel that we are the People’s Party, we’re the Movement that represents masses whist they are the direct mail-only party, incapable of mobilizing properly on ground

    All of that feels threatened now.
    But as Messina’s old boss Rahm Emanuel would say “never let a good crisis go to waste”. Now we feel threatened we should take a deep breath, assess our strengths and weaknesses and mitigate and reinforce accordingly."
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited August 2013
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T:

    When I placed my bet on England about 45 minutes ago they were 14/1. They're now 11/1.

    You are an optimist, Andy.

    By my reckoning there are 660 runs left in the match assuming no weather interruptions.

    England need to make 320 of those to draw level with Australia with six wickets in hand..

    So that means bowling out Australia in the third innings for less than 170 (unlikely) and making that total either as a first innings lead (very unlikely) or a fourth innings chase (possible).

    Your odds suggest England would win once in every 15 matches they found themselves in a similar position.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,854
    edited August 2013
    AveryLP said:

    FPT

    @Alanbrooke

    Were you travelling to or from NI? If so, given what was happening there, and on the mainland, stopping you was perfectly reasonable and was something that everyone would have gone through. Equally, no-one can hear your accent until you're stopped an so by definition we are talking about a random stop, which again everyone can suffer. Neither applies in Max's case. Those of us who are white skinned and "look" British are not going to get stopped on suspicion of being illegally in the UK. It is not an inconvenience we will all go through. There will be nothing for us to get over. And, what's more, if it's been going on for 10 years it's clearly not working as a deterrent, while the numbers of illegals actually caught are miniscule. Instead, British citizens such as Max are being made potential targets for grubby reasons by politicians who are failing to do their jobs properly.

    SO



    I and another middle-aged Caucasian male were stopped from boarding a plane for the Far East a few years ago until we had been questioned and searched.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Yup - and pretending it hasn't hurt cools no cucumbers with me.
    fitalass said:

    Some in the Labour rank and file really are spooked by the Conservatives appointing Messina to work along with Crosby on the Conservative election campaign.

    LabourList - Raising our game: 5 things Labour can do to counter Messina

    "The Tories’ near-million pound hire of Jim Messina is a brilliant psy-op against Labour. We love Obama, we’re proud of our ground game, we dismiss the Tories. Why? Because we feel that we are the People’s Party, we’re the Movement that represents masses whist they are the direct mail-only party, incapable of mobilizing properly on ground

    All of that feels threatened now.
    But as Messina’s old boss Rahm Emanuel would say “never let a good crisis go to waste”. Now we feel threatened we should take a deep breath, assess our strengths and weaknesses and mitigate and reinforce accordingly."

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    SO, the Labour attempt to now portray Messina as a Democrat for hire is most amusing. If you have not already caught last night's Newsnight report and discussion on the Messina appointment, I can recommend it.

    Plato said:

    AveryLP said:

    Plato said:

    SMukesh said:

    @Plato
    Comeon,When a guy pays you a million dollars a year,the least you can say is you like the guy.

    How do you know what he's being paid? Linky?

    Is the man who helped Obama to win now some venal lacky who'll say and do anything?
    Surely Messina will be paid in Bitcoins.

    I just find it all so immensely amusing. Tories take on Obama's saviour and all of a sudden he's not some great campaigner but an Evil Capitalist who's been bought off and will give quotes about anything because he has no scruples, and even if he's competent will make no difference 21 months out because the Tories don't have the data to work from.

    But LabourList implored Obama to stop him being employed in this role using Twitter - after spending the entire entire week wringing their hands about abusing people and then try to intimidate this chappy.

    It's just brilliant Thick Of It stuff. Scared much? Clearly "very spooked" as Allegra Stratton that well known Tory on Newsnight described it.

    Interesting view from the US Newsweek and Beast chap. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/10220425/American-Way-can-Jim-Messina-do-for-David-Cameron-what-he-did-for-Barack-Obama.html

    More amusing is the idea that his appointment represents an Obama endorsement of Cameron or that he is not doing it for the money. It's a great hire for the Tories and great business for Messina. Those reading more into it on the Labour and Tory side are being being ever so slightly foolish.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,089
    I think if England can draw level on first innings they suddenly become big favourites to win the match. I'm hoping Bell and Pieterson will both get big centuries to make that happen.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Thought this bit is key - how do they get the money without doing exactly what they accuse the Tories of?

    "3) Fundraising: We’ve all seen the improvement in Labour’s small donor drives (even the email writing sounds more like the shadow cabinet members they’re meant to be!) but what of the high-end donors? Here special responsibility lies with both Ed’s. Do they know how much money the party needs to raise by 2015? Do they have quarterly goals? How much time at present do they spend fundraising? Do they understand that their time raising money for field organisers is more valuable then countless think tank speeches?"
    fitalass said:

    Some in the Labour rank and file really are spooked by the Conservatives appointing Messina to work along with Crosby on the Conservative election campaign.

    LabourList - Raising our game: 5 things Labour can do to counter Messina

    "The Tories’ near-million pound hire of Jim Messina is a brilliant psy-op against Labour. We love Obama, we’re proud of our ground game, we dismiss the Tories. Why? Because we feel that we are the People’s Party, we’re the Movement that represents masses whist they are the direct mail-only party, incapable of mobilizing properly on ground

    All of that feels threatened now.
    But as Messina’s old boss Rahm Emanuel would say “never let a good crisis go to waste”. Now we feel threatened we should take a deep breath, assess our strengths and weaknesses and mitigate and reinforce accordingly."

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,089
    edited August 2013
    "How much do you like courgettes? According to one Facebook page devoted to them, hundreds of people find them delightful enough to click the "like" button – even with dozens of other pages about courgettes to choose from.

    There's just one problem: the liking was fake, done by a team of low-paid workers in Dhaka, Bangladesh, whose boss demanded just $15 per thousand "likes" at his "click farm". Workers punching the keys might be on a three-shift system, and be paid as little as $120 a year.

    The ease with which a humble vegetable could win approval calls into question the basis on which many modern companies measure success online – through Facebook likes, YouTube video views and Twitter followers.

    Channel 4's Dispatches programme will on Monday reveal the extent to which click farms risk eroding user confidence in what had looked like an objective measure of social online approval."


    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/02/click-farms-appearance-online-popularity
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @Andy_JS

    I very fond of courgettes - if only I'd known!
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    To win a US election it helps if:
    You have a good candidate.
    The opponent is unlikeable.
    You have a Bill Clinton* to take on opposition smears.

    *note that Bill Clintons don't grow on trees
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,854
    Andy_JS said:

    I think if England can draw level on first innings they suddenly become big favourites to win the match. I'm hoping Bell and Pieterson will both get big centuries to make that happen.

    What's the draw price now? Last time I looked it was 5-1 ON with William Hill, and that's an assessment I'd agree with, especially in view of the weather forecast for Sunday & Monday.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited August 2013
    @EiT

    People on the techno-libertarian right aren't generally worried about the volatility because they think it will go up in the long-term, as people discover that the government can't be trusted to run currencies. I don't think these people are right about that, but the fact is that some of these people are very smart. The Tories should pay them in whatever it takes to hire them. If they want to get paid in goats, give them goats.

    For non-bonkers purposes, the volatility is OK if it's just a little bit of money you use for online purchases. If it's not a big proportion of your net worth you don't mind the risk that it'll go down, as long as it's made up for by a chance that it'll go up. In practice prices get set in traditional currencies, then converted when you make the sale.


    I see two big problems.

    1. I haven't yet seen a business case for micro transaction payment systems which can return investment.

    To compensate for the inability of transaction fees to cover processing costs, schemes like bitcoin need to earn their money on the clearing and prepayment float. In times of low interest rates, the interest margin will not be enough.

    This is why bitcoin has been forced into ensuring it gets its returns from appreciating 'currency' values and by encouraging users to trade it as an asset rather than an utility.

    This creates bubble/ 'boom and bust' / ponzi scheme pressures which in turn deters use of bitcoin as a payment system.

    2. The 'libertarian' aspect can easily lead to the non-state currency becoming a tax evasion, laundering and law-breaking vehicle. The Feds are watching and will move to close operations down if users succumb to easy temptation.

    Bitcoin are better establishing wide use of the product then selling up to one of the bank supported international payment systems. The premium paid would be a much better way of gaining a return on investment than any artificial inflating of the 'currency' value.

  • sladeslade Posts: 2,090
    Andy_JS said:

    Looking at Labour's top 20 targets, the only one still without a candidate is Bradford East.

    Could be interesting if Labour choose an Asian candidate as David Ward seems to be competitive with that demographic.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    AveryLP said:

    1. I haven't yet seen a business case for micro transaction payment systems which can return investment.

    To compensate for the inability of transaction fees to cover processing costs, schemes like bitcoin need to earn their money on the clearing and prepayment float. In times of low interest rates, the interest margin will not be enough.

    Who are you talking about when you say "schemes like bitcoin"? It's a peer-to-peer network, there is no clearing and prepayment float and nobody who needs to earn money on it.
    AveryLP said:


    2. The 'libertarian' aspect can easily lead to the non-state currency becoming a tax evasion, laundering and law-breaking vehicle. The Feds are watching and will move to close operations down if users succumb to easy temptation.

    They can't close operations down without shutting down the internet. They could frustrate legal use by businesses, but that wouldn't stop people using it for illegal purposes.
    AveryLP said:


    Bitcoin are better establishing wide use of the product then selling up to one of the bank supported international payment systems. The premium paid would be a much better way of gaining a return on investment than any artificial inflating of the 'currency' value.

    You can't sell a peer-to-peer network to a bank, any more than you can steal the pound.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    An excellent blog post about Twitter abuse - amusing and grim.

    "I think it’s time you learned a bit more about me. Be warned, it isn’t pretty. Basically, my sex life is a mess. I’ve never had a successful relationship with women, owing to the fact that I’m misogynistic, immature and a braying right-winger with a face like a horse. And we haven’t even got on to the size of my penis yet which, as you can well imagine, is minuscule.

    Then there’s my unfortunate educational background. You’d think it would be an advantage having had an excellent private education at Malvern followed by a stint reading English at Oxford. But God, you couldn’t be more wrong. From public school all I learned is arrogance and a sense of entitlement and a lofty disdain for the poor while my English degree, being a mere “humanity”, is worthless and leaves me especially ill-qualified to comment on any issue which has to do with science.

    And it’s not just that I’m ignorant about science, either. I’m actually anti-science. Perhaps it’s all the money I’m paid by Big Oil, perhaps it’s because I’m mentally ill, or perhaps it’s just because I’m plain evil but, would you believe it, I’m on a personal mission to disseminate ignorance by deliberately distorting the truth about issues like climate change because it doesn’t accord with my selfishness and greed and refusal to alter my rapacious lifestyle for the common good.

    Did I mention my mental illness? I think I did but it really can’t be mentioned often enough. I’m sick, warped, perverted – not to mention stupid, childish, puerile, irresponsible, silly, flippant, sexist, racist, disablist – and totally wrong in the head. It’s all down to the lack of love I received as a child, which turned me into a rampant attention seeker. The kind of upbringing I have scarcely bears thinking about but what we can say with confidence is this: the values imparted to me by my parents were so perverse that they created the veritable monster I am today.

    Nah. Not really. The hideous creature I’ve just described isn’t me but an amalgam of the various things that get said about me pretty much every day, either in the troll comments below my blogs, or on Twitter or via email. Lest you think I’m making this up, here are some very recent examples... > http://bogpaper.com/2013/08/02/delingpole-on-friday-why-theres-no-point-arguing-with-lefties/
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Nick Palmer wins on first ballot. Greg Marshall second

    As predicted Andrea gets there before me! Yes, a very large margin. On to 2015!

    Hooray! Well done Mr P!

    Bugger! That's one more we'll have to find somewhere else.....

  • Messina is an expert analyst with a fabulous reputation to protect. His analysis must be that the Tories will win in 2015.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,845

    GIGO applies here, doesn't it? The Obama team appointed their data guy for 2012 on November 6th, 2008. Where are the Tories going to get all this data from at short notice? They can't even keep a simple MSSQL database running so they know which doors to knock on.

    Neil said:

    @EiT

    I think because the Tory's IT cocked up so spectacularly (according to reports) in the past they're going to be more careful to get it right now. This article suggests that they have been working on their systems ahead of this appointment (though it describes it mainly in the context of data protection issues):

    http://amberhawk.typepad.com/amberhawk/2013/03/could-the-conservative-partys-electoral-database-breach-the-data-protection-act.html

    I

    EIT & Neil : I always get suspicious when people say things like 'They can't even keep a simple MSSQL running ... '. It fires the same warning signs as a manager saying 'just knock up a quick SQL database to allow our customer to keep track ...'

    I have heard references to Conservative party database problems, but no details. Are there any links anywhere about what is rumoured to have gone on?

    Congratulations to Nick P.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    1. I haven't yet seen a business case for micro transaction payment systems which can return investment.

    To compensate for the inability of transaction fees to cover processing costs, schemes like bitcoin need to earn their money on the clearing and prepayment float. In times of low interest rates, the interest margin will not be enough.

    Who are you talking about when you say "schemes like bitcoin"? It's a peer-to-peer network, there is no clearing and prepayment float and nobody who needs to earn money on it.
    AveryLP said:


    2. The 'libertarian' aspect can easily lead to the non-state currency becoming a tax evasion, laundering and law-breaking vehicle. The Feds are watching and will move to close operations down if users succumb to easy temptation.

    They can't close operations down without shutting down the internet. They could frustrate legal use by businesses, but that wouldn't stop people using it for illegal purposes.
    AveryLP said:


    Bitcoin are better establishing wide use of the product then selling up to one of the bank supported international payment systems. The premium paid would be a much better way of gaining a return on investment than any artificial inflating of the 'currency' value.

    You can't sell a peer-to-peer network to a bank, any more than you can steal the pound.
    Just because the costs and revenues are 'mutually owned' doesn't mean they don't exist.

    It may be difficult for the Feds to suppress operations but where there is a will there will be a way.

    Banks are always buying mutuals. Bitcoin's owners are its users (and developers). Everyone has a price.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,089
    Re-matches so far:

    Bedford: Richard Fuller vs Patrick Hall
    Broxtowe: Anna Soubry vs Nick Palmer
    Burnley: Gordon Birtwistle vs Julie Cooper
    Cambridge: Julian Huppert vs Daniel Zeichner
    Newton Abbot: Anne Marie Morris vs Richard Younger-Ross
    Warwickshire North: Dan Byles vs Mike O'Brien
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,089
    Bell goes, bowled by Harris.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    GIGO applies here, doesn't it? The Obama team appointed their data guy for 2012 on November 6th, 2008. Where are the Tories going to get all this data from at short notice? They can't even keep a simple MSSQL database running so they know which doors to knock on.

    Neil said:

    @EiT

    I think because the Tory's IT cocked up so spectacularly (according to reports) in the past they're going to be more careful to get it right now. This article suggests that they have been working on their systems ahead of this appointment (though it describes it mainly in the context of data protection issues):

    http://amberhawk.typepad.com/amberhawk/2013/03/could-the-conservative-partys-electoral-database-breach-the-data-protection-act.html

    I

    EIT & Neil : I always get suspicious when people say things like 'They can't even keep a simple MSSQL running ... '. It fires the same warning signs as a manager saying 'just knock up a quick SQL database to allow our customer to keep track ...'

    I have heard references to Conservative party database problems, but no details. Are there any links anywhere about what is rumoured to have gone on?

    Congratulations to Nick P.
    You may be right. What I'm getting this from is - not sure if I'll be able to find links - is:
    1) They apparently lost their central database weeks before Eastleigh when a vendor went bust, and weren't able to get it back by Eastleigh.
    2) People were still complaining that their system (I think it's Merlin) was unavailable at the local elections, quite a bit later.
  • England need a lot of rain now to avoid losing this game. There is no way our fragile, flakey, indisciplined batsmen can do it. Our bowlers must hate them.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2013

    GIGO applies here, doesn't it? The Obama team appointed their data guy for 2012 on November 6th, 2008. Where are the Tories going to get all this data from at short notice? They can't even keep a simple MSSQL database running so they know which doors to knock on.

    Neil said:

    @EiT

    I think because the Tory's IT cocked up so spectacularly (according to reports) in the past they're going to be more careful to get it right now. This article suggests that they have been working on their systems ahead of this appointment (though it describes it mainly in the context of data protection issues):

    http://amberhawk.typepad.com/amberhawk/2013/03/could-the-conservative-partys-electoral-database-breach-the-data-protection-act.html

    I

    EIT & Neil : I always get suspicious when people say things like 'They can't even keep a simple MSSQL running ... '. It fires the same warning signs as a manager saying 'just knock up a quick SQL database to allow our customer to keep track ...'

    I have heard references to Conservative party database problems, but no details. Are there any links anywhere about what is rumoured to have gone on?

    Congratulations to Nick P.
    You may be right. What I'm getting this from is - not sure if I'll be able to find links - is:
    1) They apparently lost their central database weeks before Eastleigh when a vendor went bust, and weren't able to get it back by Eastleigh.
    2) People were still complaining that their system (I think it's Merlin) was unavailable at the local elections, quite a bit later.
    And there is 21 months to go - perhaps they've included resolving this in the contract with Mr Messina? Hmm?

    No of course not, they're going to pay this turn-coat £1m to fiddle about with a legacy IT system between now and May 2015...
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    @AndyJS
    Unlike most others on your list the LAB candidate chosen for Burnley is NOT like Nick Palmer the ex MP. The first time incumbency bonus will go to Entwistle.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,845

    GIGO applies here, doesn't it? The Obama team appointed their data guy for 2012 on November 6th, 2008. Where are the Tories going to get all this data from at short notice? They can't even keep a simple MSSQL database running so they know which doors to knock on.

    EIT & Neil : I always get suspicious when people say things like 'They can't even keep a simple MSSQL running ... '. It fires the same warning signs as a manager saying 'just knock up a quick SQL database to allow our customer to keep track ...'

    I have heard references to Conservative party database problems, but no details. Are there any links anywhere about what is rumoured to have gone on?

    Congratulations to Nick P.
    You may be right. What I'm getting this from is - not sure if I'll be able to find links - is:
    1) They apparently lost their central database weeks before Eastleigh when a vendor went bust, and weren't able to get it back by Eastleigh.
    2) People were still complaining that their system (I think it's Merlin) was unavailable at the local elections, quite a bit later.
    Thanks. You mean the Conservative Party got bitten by the free market? ;-)

    So they needed a cron job to do a dump or hotcopy, and the necessary mirrored infrastructure at a different company? Not necessarily easy to set up or to ensure it works when a disaster happens. Hardly the first time It's occurred. It's why good IT people can and do earn a great deal of money.

    The best (and saddest) one I heard was when the IT director of a small company of about thirty employees became seriously ill, and no-one had access to some passwords. He was apparently a rather autocratic fellow who did not to hand over control to mortal underlings. Cue a distressing incident between his soon-to-be-widow and the finance director in the hospital ...

    As an aside, perhaps this is my age (all of 40), but I distrust the cloud for sensitive confidential information; better to have them in-house. Then again, I'm not IT so my contact with those sorts of choices is thankfully limited.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    @Nick Palmer
    Congratulations
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Ok, I get shot down for saying the racial profiling associated with Lynton Crosby's illegal immigration initiatives is vile and xenophobic.

    I think we all have to be honest and call a spade a spade. Let 's not try to defend the initiatives of a known xenophobe.

    Anyway, all of this is seriously damaging Tory chances with ethnic minority voters. Some may say that's not critical but as GE2010 showed ethnic minority voters have a significant impact on the overall result - see Lord Ashcroft's report.
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