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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Peter the Punter marks your card for tomorrow’s Grand Natio

SystemSystem Posts: 12,059
edited April 2013 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Peter the Punter marks your card for tomorrow’s Grand National

The Grand National isn’t my favourite race but like the Boat Race and FA Cup Final, it is one of those televised events that takes a sport way beyond its usual public, so I somehow feel obliged to convey my thoughts on the contest to my adoring PB public and help those who would punt to do so with a little more chance of success, and those who would not with at least a little more understanding a…

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Comments

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    the only time I have bet on The National was to place a small each way stake on Party Politics.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,674
    Evening all :)

    The National isn't my idea of a betting proposition either. I've no strong view on the race except to discount those who've slogged round in the winter mud.

    The ground looks decent on the National course and will favour those who like a sound surface rather than the mudlarks.

    He's very lightly raced but I think he's a huge e/w suggestion at 50/1 and that's WHAT A FRIEND. I might risk a fiver each-way but no more.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited April 2013
    Here is why I don't bet on horses: If I did I would go for "Chicago Grey" because, er, I like Chicago.
  • RicardohosRicardohos Posts: 258
    Two horses have so far died at the meeting ... is there a betting market for the number of deaths at the National? Sorry if that seems in bad taste, but probably sums up how I feel about it.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    I think I'll be giving this particular race a miss apart from my tickets for Cappa Bleu and Balthazar King as drawn out randomly in the pub sweepstake.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Gullible Gordon?

    Sounds like one for Pork.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,531
    AveryLP said:

    Gullible Gordon?

    Sounds like one for Pork.

    GG ran today, not tomorrow.

    Gullible Avery?

  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,764
    Gullible Gordon ain't even running although you would have drawn on him for 5 places in today's Topham.

    Happily I did draw on Zarkandar yesterday (see weds post) and on Triolo d'alene today so up for Aintree so far....

    I like Balthazar King, Teaforthree and Chicago Grey, and for outsiders Soll and Any Currency.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,189
    Nice cartoon, Marf!

    Peter, hope you and other PB punters do well on the horses tomorrow!
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Teaforthree is my choice, ran well to get second in the Welsh National and stays longer than herpes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,642
    edited April 2013
    Thanks for this Peter.

    My picks for tomorrow are as follows

    Imperial Commander

    Weird Al (I've always loved Weird Al Yankovich)

    Cappa Bleu

    Sea Bass

    My other hope for tomorrow is that we have no horse fatalities.
  • samsam Posts: 727
    @Southam_Observer


    SouthamObserver said:
    « hide previous quotes
    Gerry_Mander said:
    SeanT said:
    o one feels that sorry for the poor, any more. Life is tuff for everyone. Suck it up, etc.

    This is a potential election winner, for the Tories. And if they had a plausible WWC Tebbity leader in place, my guess is they'd win a majority. With Cam and Oz it is unlikely - but not impossible.

    The obv irony is that PM Miliband will then have to enforce the biggest welfare cuts in UK history, anyway.

    Absolutely bang on Sean, as usual. Is there anyone in the Tories who can do this? A Tebbitty figure, as you say. I can't think of anyone right now, other than Hague, who probably doesn't want it.

    What odds on a Tory / UKIP coalition at the next election, where the North votes UKIP?

    1,000-1 or perhaps 2,000-1.



    I'll have £100@1,000/1 please
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,764

    Two horses have so far died at the meeting ... is there a betting market for the number of deaths at the National? Sorry if that seems in bad taste, but probably sums up how I feel about it.

    Horses die every day, and for that matter so do cows, sheep, chickens etc. The obsession of the media with National fatalities is just another fake story.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,402
    edited April 2013
    Bet on "Findus Beef Lasagne" running in the 2:15.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,189
    Wasn't there a horse called Mr Smithson a few years ago? Anyone know what happened to him? Her?
  • RicardohosRicardohos Posts: 258

    Two horses have so far died at the meeting ... is there a betting market for the number of deaths at the National? Sorry if that seems in bad taste, but probably sums up how I feel about it.

    Horses die every day, and for that matter so do cows, sheep, chickens etc. The obsession of the media with National fatalities is just another fake story.

    I've always stuck to the principle that you treat an animal well and then if you're going to kill it, you do so in as humane way as possible and then if you've bred it for food you eat it.

    It's not a non-story because here we effectively kill animals for our sport. 'As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods'.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    Gullible Gordon?

    Sounds like one for Pork.

    GG ran today, not tomorrow.

    Gullible Avery?

    Well, at least you got half the joke, McDivvie!

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pricewise picks - Chicago Grey and Quiscover Fontaine.

    Market movers - Seabass and Cappa Bleu
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    When legendary owner and gambler JP McManus lines up with almost as legendary trainer, commentator and sire of jockeys Ted Walsh, you have got to suspect something.

    Trust tim to see a plot in this relationship!

    As JP McManus has retained McCoy since 2004 to ride horses he owns regardless of trainer, it all sounds very suspicious indeed.

    Perhaps George Osborne had a hand in McCoy's selection of ride?

    No doubt tim will keep us informed.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Two horses have so far died at the meeting ... is there a betting market for the number of deaths at the National? Sorry if that seems in bad taste, but probably sums up how I feel about it.

    Horses die every day, and for that matter so do cows, sheep, chickens etc. The obsession of the media with National fatalities is just another fake story.
    'As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods'.
    He's mad that trusts in the tameness of a wolf, a
    horse's health, a boy's love, or a whore's oath.

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    Former Blair SpAd Lord Roger Liddle of Carlisle is standing in Wigton is standing for Cumbria CC.

    First unopposed return I've found this year (unopposed returns are not common in CC elections given there are less seats to be contested overall):

    Conservative Richard Dodd elected unopposed in Ponteland North-Northumberland
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited April 2013
    Good evening: My wife has backed Seabass e/w and I have had a very longshot bet on The Rainbow Hunter; price @ 50/1 according to Coral. Of course only £10 spent on all the bets but it will give my wife something to look forward too and a sense of fun after her recent mastectomy.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,764

    Two horses have so far died at the meeting ... is there a betting market for the number of deaths at the National? Sorry if that seems in bad taste, but probably sums up how I feel about it.

    Horses die every day, and for that matter so do cows, sheep, chickens etc. The obsession of the media with National fatalities is just another fake story.

    I've always stuck to the principle that you treat an animal well and then if you're going to kill it, you do so in as humane way as possible and then if you've bred it for food you eat it.

    It's not a non-story because here we effectively kill animals for our sport. 'As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods'.
    I don't think that anything that lines up on Saturday will have had anything but the best care and attention that money can buy. If it all goes wrong then they will be put down rapidly and humanely. Poor Synchronised broke a leg last year when running loose. I think it's very unfortunate that racing is not more robust in standing up to the prurient and PC.

    Nobody in racing wants fatalities at the National. I'm really not sure that is the case with certain elements of the media.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Thanks to Pete.Fenman's system came up trumps again today giving 3 Henderson winners 1/3.14/1 and 10/1.Just back the trainer of the first race winner for the remainder of the card-18 points profit-so that's the plan again tomorrow.
    These big NH races are wonderful for trends followers.Chicago Grey is on my shortlist as well as Pete's and was unlucky when brought down when going well last year.Paul Carberry ought to be fit which is a major bonus.As he is a hold-up horse he will need luck in running but it is Chicago Grey for me.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Wasn't there a horse called Mr Smithson a few years ago? Anyone know what happened to him? Her?

    Yes it came well back in the field. i think we all had small bets on it at the time.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Former Blair SpAd Lord Roger Liddle of Carlisle is standing in Wigton is standing for Cumbria CC.

    Which party is he standing for ? He was once a member of the SDP. As a Blair spad, presumably he is a Tory !

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited April 2013
    The famous frost report class sketch - I look down at him.

    Which Labour MP today does that sentence belong to - clue,he could be labour leader one day because the mirror,mirror on the wall tells him so ;-)


    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/article4873724.ece
  • samsam Posts: 727
    edited April 2013

    The famous frost report class sketch - I look down at him.

    Which Labour MP today does that sentence belong to - clue,he could be labour leader one day because the mirror,mirror on the wall tells him so ;-)


    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/article4873724.ece


    Is it the Chuka Umana "trash" quote?

    EDIT the link didn't work so I hadn't read it when I posted
  • valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 606
    Sorry to be a party pooper but as far as I am concerned the sooner the National is cancelled the better. BTW if Andrea or Harry want info on next weeks significant local in Burton,Pembs I am here to help. Tis my ward.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796
    edited April 2013
    My favourite was 'Polish polish' sometimes confused with 'Polish Polish' 'polish polish' and 'polish Polish'
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Even the Guardian realises that Labour are losing the welfare argument. Will the Leftards ever catch up?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/05/labour-draw-sting-welfare-or-lose-2015
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    @sam,correct ;-)

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/article4873724.ece

    I keep saying he will be a disaster for labour ;-)
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Even the Guardian realises that Labour are losing the welfare argument."

    "It's a triumph for Dave!"
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    surbiton said:

    Former Blair SpAd Lord Roger Liddle of Carlisle is standing in Wigton is standing for Cumbria CC.

    Which party is he standing for ? He was once a member of the SDP. As a Blair spad, presumably he is a Tory !

    Labour. Shocking.

  • samsam Posts: 727
    edited April 2013
    Dianne Abbott has accused Peter Hitchens of something (1/100 something to do with race) and has deleted it now he's pulled her up... Bet we hear more of this



    Peter Hitchens (@ClarkeMicah)
    05/04/2013 15:07
    @ivanwhite48 @HackneyAbbott Dear Mr White, Please withdraw this defamatory statement as soon as possible. I know you cannot substantiate it.


    EDIT!

    Seems like it is White who was the accuser, but Abbott has deleted all relevant tweets
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Volley boy, is the byelection in the usually uncontested word your patch?
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Thanks for the tips.

    I always seem to turn a profit at the National by backing a bunch on Betfair's place-only market...

    Rooting for "Across the Bay" owned by Crosby's own Coyne brothers (a lawyer and a dentist).

    But yet again the animal welfare nutters have watered down what used to be the world's greatest race.

    We EAT horses, FFS... Who cares if a couple are sacrificed for a far greater glory than a Tesco "beef lasagne"...?
  • glassfetglassfet Posts: 220
    After the prominence OGH gave to last night's Mirror front page, will we see the same tonight?

    @DailyMirror Saturday's exclusive: Nick Clegg pictured on his luxury ski holiday at millionaires' retreat http://twitter.com/DailyMirror/status/320265998362091521/photo/1
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Portugal's Supreme Court rules their budget cuts illegal. Euro whackamole crisis continues...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    RodCrosby said:

    Thanks for the tips.

    I always seem to turn a profit at the National by backing a bunch on Betfair's place-only market...

    Rooting for "Across the Bay" owned by Crosby's own Coyne brothers (a lawyer and a dentist).

    But yet again the animal welfare nutters have watered down what used to be the world's greatest race.

    We EAT horses, FFS... Who cares if a couple are sacrificed for a far greater glory than a Tesco "beef lasagne"...?

    I'm not sure how I feel about this. I can't seem to come to a logical point of view. Would you support bringing back bear-baiting?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    IDS plan saved in the Nick of time

    Lib Dem leader steps in TWICE on Universal Credit

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/article4874140.ece

    Brilliant by the tories,if anything goes wrong with it,clegg to blame = lol

  • @Socrates

    Bear-bating is a cruel sport. Horse racing is not.

    There is simply no comparison.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Former LD MP Richard Younger Ross is standing for Devon CC in a Con/LD marginal.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Thanks Peter - great post :D
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited April 2013
    Don't be daft. Of course not, there is a complete difference.

    Every horse in the National wants to be there, and has spent their life enjoyably jumping fences. If they die in an accident, so what?

    When are we going to ban Formula One?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,533
    horse cruelty

    does it really need to be said (again) that those horses are arguably the best looked after animals on the planet. They are fed, watered, kept warm, exercised, under no threat, and allowed to run with the herd every so often.

    Everyone around them dotes on them and even when they are forced to go to Wolverhampton for an evening meeting on the all-weather they receive appropriate support and counselling.

    As for who's going to win, I have no idea except for the fact that it will be an around 14/1 shot or less. The National is not a race for outsiders.

  • valleyboy said:

    Sorry to be a party pooper but as far as I am concerned the sooner the National is cancelled the better. BTW if Andrea or Harry want info on next weeks significant local in Burton,Pembs I am here to help. Tis my ward.

    Why just The National, Valleyboy?

    Racehorses die every day of the week - over jumps, on the flat, in training. If you want to stop this, you have to ban racing. Then the only thoroughbred horses that will remain will be in zoos, plus a few private pets.

    Is this what you want?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    OpenEurope Portuguese High court rules €1bn+ of EU-mandated austerity measures unconstitutional. The eurozone's clash of natl constitutions continue
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    I presume this is vandalism - the Wikipedia infobox describes the ideology of the Slovenian PM's party as "cronyism".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Slovenia
  • Paywall

    UKIP sources insisted that they would not reach the vote share of Eastleigh but some polling experts expect the party to get between 15 and 20 per cent of the vote, compared with 6 per cent in 2009.
  • RicardohosRicardohos Posts: 258

    @Socrates

    Bear-bating is a cruel sport. Horse racing is not.

    There is simply no comparison.

    I'm not sure the pro-racing people on here are doing themselves many favours this evening. Merely ranting that comparisons aren't possible, or even worse comparing racing to Formula One as RodCrosby's just done, really isn't erudite argument. In the case of the latter it's quite remarkable: in case you hadn't noticed there's a slight difference between a car and a horse. And this leaves the suspicion you know you're wrong.

    Lots of people get pleasure out of watching the horses race, that's undeniable. It doesn't make it right. Horses regularly die on the jump courses, particularly the National and there's therefore the sense that they are being bred in a life-threatening sport for the pleasure of humans. The animal welfare argument is difficult to sustain, unless of course you've managed to interview them as RC has and taken a poll to ascertain that 100% of them want to be there, despite the possibility they may die.

    Human cruelty to animals has a correlation to human on human cruelty incidentally, and it's a sign of a civilised society when it recognises these things and bans them. Fox hunting has rightly been banned. I suspect it's only a question of time before the Grand National follows suit.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,557
    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Hos, welcome to pb.com.

    On foxhunting: that can be argued to have merit as it reduces the numbers of a pest that damages livestock and property and the alternatives are mixed at best (lamping, poison and shooting all have drawbacks).
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Welfare, good quote from a few threads back
    Labour are missing the point here. I get the feeling the public are very black and white on welfare.

    They despise crooks and scroungers as much as they support money for the deserving. Partly because they see the former as taking money from the latter.
    hence how potentially both Labour and Tories can be in the wrong spot at the same time.
  • @ricardohos

    Most of the people in this country that love horses the most, work in the horse racing industry.

    There was an interview with Jonjo O’Neill in this weeks Times where he talks about how he's struggled to deal following the death of Synchronised.

    These people do genuinely care about the welfare of horses.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    FPT
    As well as being a bleep and a bleep Blair is also a bleep and a bleep if he doesn't realize how his malignant reign was only possible because he was floating on a giant credit bubble.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,533
    @Ricardohos

    think about what you are saying. (Race)horses are bred to race. If there was no racing there would be no demand for so many horses.

    Now, you might say that was a good thing. So where would there be demand for horses? Food, recreation, work. Not sure the pet thing would work out. All told a small percentage of the current number. And if that is your ideal population of horses then we have no argument.

    If however you are happy to see a large number of horses a large proportion of which undertake an activity the dangers of which are not much different, say, from those which face a domestic dog or cat in an urban environment, then you must appreciate that racing is a relatively harmless activity and its fatality rate not much different from that of many other animals in captivity and a good deal lower than most wild animals.

    That you mention foxhunting, however, leads me to believe that animal welfare is not the beginning and end of your concern.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,481

    Paywall

    UKIP sources insisted that they would not reach the vote share of Eastleigh but some polling experts expect the party to get between 15 and 20 per cent of the vote, compared with 6 per cent in 2009.

    Will they beat the Tories ?
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    waffle.

    I don't need to take a poll. Horses that don't like jumping fences, errr... don't become racehorses. They are put out to grass or turned into petfood, or if they are lucky wind up on a shelf at tescos in a 99p meal you can feed to your kids...
  • On the previous thread, and I've not read any of the comments on the thread, so apologies if this point was made.

    If Blair had continued as Labour Leader, come the credit crunch, he surely would have replaced Gordon Brown as Chancellor.

    I suspect if he had done that, the Brownites would have made the Labour party unmanageable and Blair would have been forced out.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    @Socrates

    Bear-bating is a cruel sport. Horse racing is not.

    There is simply no comparison.

    Maybe not in straight horse racing, but there's definitely an argument for it in jumping races. In the grand national a large fraction - one in twenty? - reliably get killed painfully each year. Obviously bear-baiting is worse, but there's a spectrum of cruelty.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,481
    On the National I've gone £12.50 E/W on Tim's tip Colbert Stallion. Its not really my favourite race and most people down at my stables hate the thing, but Victor's Free bet/6 place/tip from Tim is too good to miss. It is a good race most years no doubt for the bookies with such a huge field...
  • Pulpstar said:

    Paywall

    UKIP sources insisted that they would not reach the vote share of Eastleigh but some polling experts expect the party to get between 15 and 20 per cent of the vote, compared with 6 per cent in 2009.

    Will they beat the Tories ?
    Not nationwide, but they may push the Tories close in the seats where UKIP will be running.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Hos, welcome to pb.com.

    On foxhunting: that can be argued to have merit as it reduces the numbers of a pest that damages livestock and property and the alternatives are mixed at best (lamping, poison and shooting all have drawbacks).

    When fox hunting was legal, weren't their places where they deliberately avoided killing foxes for a few years in order to get the population back up?
  • Also from the Times

    But he (Farage) and hundreds of would-be councillors will also focus on other populist issues, such as wind farms and the HS2 rail project. “Many of the seats are in rural areas where the local population is furious that the new high-speed rail will decimate beautiful countryside,” a party spokesman said.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Wasn't there a horse called Mr Smithson a few years ago? Anyone know what happened to him? Her?

    Alas he was a gelding.

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    @Socrates.

    You make it sound like these horses have never seen a fence before, never mind jumped a few thousand. And are dragged kicking and screaming to the start line...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,557
    Ah, Mr. Smithson. Very quick question: could you confirm that the pb2 threads will be moderated (as necessary to remove spam)? Either this or me having the ability to axe spam comments would be fine, but it'd be very useful to know just what the situation is. Cheers.
  • shipmate1shipmate1 Posts: 37
    I had Ballabriggs 2 years ago and Neptunes Collenges last year! (he was a grade 1 horse with a jockey called Jacob, as is my son) - all guess work, pick a name and get lucky!! My wife is on the Jacob horse again this year. I fancy the old boy of Imperial Commander and Teaforthree. Was also thinking a few quid on Balthazer King?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,208
    Marist 2016

    •Hillary Clinton (D) 46%
    •Chris Christie (R) 43%
    •Hillary Clinton (D) 52%
    •Rand Paul (R) 41%
    •Hillary Clinton (D) 52%
    •Marco Rubio (R) 40%
    •Hillary Clinton (D) 54%
    •Jeb Bush (R) 38%


    •Chris Christie (R) 46%
    •Joe Biden (D) 43%
    •Joe Biden (D) 49%
    •Jeb Bush (R) 41%
    •Joe Biden (D) 50%
    •Rand Paul (R) 41%
    •Joe Biden (D) 53%
    •Marco Rubio (R) 39%
  • shipmate1shipmate1 Posts: 37
    Wasn't there a horse called Mr Smithson a few years ago? Anyone know what happened to him?

    -He was a donkey not a horse? or did he end up in Tesco value burger?
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited April 2013
    Aye, 'twas right tasty with onions and ketchup, washed down by a pint of Smithson's...

    (you've no idea what they put in the beer these days)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,208
    Sam - While embarrassing for Chukka I doubt it will harm him to much, essentially he was saying there were too many C list celebs and trash at London clubs and too few with a 'cool' international crowd, and being 'too cool for school' did not do Obama too much harm in the end.

    Interestingly a new Pew poll shows majority support in the US for marijuana legalisation

    Do you think the use of marijuana should be made legal, or not?
    •Yes, legal 52%
    •No, illegal 45%
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,481

    Also from the Times

    But he (Farage) and hundreds of would-be councillors will also focus on other populist issues, such as wind farms and the HS2 rail project. “Many of the seats are in rural areas where the local population is furious that the new high-speed rail will decimate beautiful countryside,” a party spokesman said.


    My local ward is ripe for that, HS2 is going to rip right through my avatar's stables !, though she'll probably be gone by then.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,254
    edited April 2013
    @Socrates

    No, it's nowhere near one in twenty, Socrates.

    I think it's about one in eighty, or one fatality every two years. It was two last year, although both were freak accidents. Synchronised was running loose after losing its jockey at Becher's Brook. At the Canal Turn it suddenly decided to pull itself up and swerved awkwardly into the fence, breaking its leg. According To Pete was even unluckier. It jumped Becher's perfectly well but landed on a faller. Another horse then landed on the pair of them. Enquiries were unable to establish whether Pete died as a result of the first or second collision, but it was one or the other, not the fall itself.

    The National is not much different from any other steeplechase in terms of its attrition rate. This is not surprising when you consider that the dangers presented by the difficulty of the fences and length of the race are offset by the fact that the horses go a lot slower than they would in, say, a two mile chase over standard fences. It's speed that is the really dangerous element in horseracing.

    Horses fall on the flat too, and when they do the results are usually catastrophic, because of the speed at which they are travelling. Flat horses are also more vulnerable to dying in training.

    So, if you won't accept racehorse fatalities, you have to ban horseracing. The consequences of that have already been pointed out. If you accept those consequences, fair enough. But why stop at horseracing?

    How do you feel about fishing, for example?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Also from the Times

    But he (Farage) and hundreds of would-be councillors will also focus on other populist issues, such as wind farms and the HS2 rail project. “Many of the seats are in rural areas where the local population is furious that the new high-speed rail will decimate beautiful countryside,” a party spokesman said.


    My local ward is ripe for that, HS2 is going to rip right through my avatar's stables !, though she'll probably be gone by then.
    Well I'm opposed to HS2 on so many levels, but have you seen where they are going to put the HS2 station at Meadowhall?

    Fecking hell, that place is a pain in the arse traffic wise at the best of times.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21235495
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "When fox hunting was legal, weren't their places where they deliberately avoided killing foxes for a few years in order to get the population back up?"

    Not that I ever heard of and given the number of foxes around I would be very surprised if there was ever a shortage.

    Mind you, the biggest vermin problem these days is from deer.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @benedictbrogan: This week has exposed Labour's multiple failings. Tories should seize the opportunity. Our leader http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/9974362/The-Labour-Party-is-trapped-in-the-past.html
  • shipmate1shipmate1 Posts: 37
    Not aloud to mention benefits and low lifes but these people are despicable:

    Story in my local Daily Echo today.

    IT WAS money that they claimed was destined to help cancer patients in the final hours of their lives.

    Night after night they would tour pubs and clubs in Hampshire and across the south of England and urge generous customers to hand over money to fund vital nurses who provide palliative care for the dying.

    In reality they were a gang of greedy con artists who were shaking falsely branded tins, wearing fake charity identification badges and duping thousands of unsuspecting people into parting with cash that was simply pocketed by the callous group at the end of the night.

    Today ringleader Gordon Coe, a well-known ex-pub landlord in Southampton, and his accomplices Pauline Hunt, Susan Christians and husband and wife team Kim and Ben Chapman are facing prison for their roles in the sickening scam that has deprived Marie Curie Cancer Care of many thousands of pounds.

    ‘Expenses’ Nobody will ever be able to calculate exactly what they stole. It was not known how many times a night, on how many occasions, they skimmed the tins and helped themselves to what they claimed was “expenses” to cover petrol and meals when they were out.
    . .
    Even by one of their own admissions they were “the most evil b******* going” using the cash they generated to pay for their living. Four of the five lived off benefits, unable to work, but still managed to live a lavish lifestyle taking holidays together in the Dominican Republic, Tenerife and Greece.

    Coe was the mastermind of the conspiracy, having initially applied to Marie Curie to become a fundraiser in November 2008. He had filled in the relevant paperwork and supplied two referees to vouch that he was an honest man – one of them being Ben Chapman who saw him as a father figure – and passed the stringent vetting process before being issued with charity T-shirts, a volunteer fundraiser ID card and a paying in book on the understanding he would collect in Southampton.

    Coe, now a 65-year-old amputee who is wheelchair bound, was also given around 12 collection tins when he was visited by a local Marie Curie fundraising manager who told him the strict regulations he must abide by – which included that he could not recruit others to help and that collecting pub to pub was not something he should do.

    But the code of practice, adhered to by all charities, was brazenly ignored by Coe who recruited the other four unbeknown to the charity.

    And during the next two years he only deposited a total of £76 in the charity bank account in three small amounts.

    It was on January 15, 2010, that the alarm bells began to sound when a woman – who turned out to be Hunt – appeared in the Salisbury Arms pub in Shirley carrying a tatty ID badge and a very dated looking charity tin.

    A customer challenged her, told her he was not happy and later called Marie Curie to report her suspicious behaviour.

    They charity naturally became concerned, knowing they did not have a woman collecting for them in that area. They called police while trying to make contact with Coe who was not answering their letters and calls.

    Eventually, in March, he got in contact and told the charity he knew Hunt and had given her permission only to empty tins on his behalf. He then asked to be part of the annual Daffodil fundraising appeal and raised £230 which he banked.

    But with police involvement ended because no crime had apparently been committed, the scam continued to grow and on the face of it, the gang thought they had the perfect system.

    Kim Chapman and Susan Christians were also involved as collectors, with Ben Chapman a driver who would take them from pub to pub.

    The women were carrying fake ID badges from the charity, tins with home printed logos and generic seals ordered from the Internet.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited April 2013

    @Socrates
    So, if you won't accept racehorse fatalities, you have to ban horseracing. The consequences of that have already been pointed out. If you accept those consequences, fair enough. But why stop at horseracing?

    How do you feel about fishing, for example?

    On horse racing, as I said, I'm not against it. I genuinely can't make up my mind about it. As Rod says, eating meat is basically killing animals for our own enjoyment, as we are all capable of having a vegetarian diet.

    On fishing, I have no problem whatsoever. I don't believe fish have any sentience at all. It's like killing insects.
  • samsam Posts: 727
    edited April 2013
    Horseracing fans should try and watch the finish of the 320 at Sedgefield today, amazing ride on Croco Bay
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Senators from North Dakota and Indiana(!) have now backed gay marriage:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/04/05/democrats-heitkamp-donnelly-now-back-gay-marriage/

    That's now a majority of the US Senate. Given that no country in central or eastern Europe has legalised the thing, can we stop this idea that America is much, much more conservative?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,254
    edited April 2013
    @Ricardohos

    Nobody is ranting, Ricardo. Nor is anybody discouraging comparison. On the contrary, it is welcome.

    I have the impression from your post that you have never been to a horseracing meeting. You should try it. You could then note for yourself the difference between the treatment of the animals there and those in, say, bearbaiting. It should then be evident why most people would consider one to be civilised and reasonable, the other cruel and uncivilised.

    One of the things you would probably note is that it is just about impossible to make half a ton of horseflesh do anything it does not wish to. You are unlikely to see it forced, not least because it would be pointless, as well as cruel.

    Yes, it is perfectly possible that The National will one day be banned - and all forms of jump racing, and eventing, dressage, point-to-pointing, flat racing and all forms of equine competition in which horses occasionally die. If and when this happens it will be a triumph of the ignorant over those of us that love animals in general, and horses in particular.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    Congratulations to

    Cecilia Mary Anne Motley (Con)
    Simon Jones (Con)
    Joyce Bernardette Barrow (Con)
    Brian Beckett Williams (Con)
    Thomas Henry Biggins (Con)
    Peggy Mullock (Con)
    Gerald Dakin (Con)

    elected unopposed to Shropshire Unitary Council

    Another Con seat is already guaranteed too (3 candidates for a 2 members ward, 2 of them being Tories).
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    PB's resident history buffs will enjoy this ad campaign:

    http://sethtaras.wordpress.com/2010/12/28/history-channel-brand-campaign/
  • sam said:

    Horseracing fans should try and watch the finish of the 320 at Sedgefield today, amazing ride on Croco Bay

    sam said:

    Horseracing fans should try and watch the finish of the 320 at Sedgefield today, amazing ride on Croco Bay

    Saw it, Sam. Amazing!

    But if you want to see something even more amazing, google 'Tom Cannon amazing horseracing recovery'.

    Tom rides the three horses in which I have an interest and is a great young conditional rider.

  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited April 2013

    Mind you, the biggest vermin problem these days is from deer.

    Yes, good, isn't it? Deer taste a hell of a lot better than foxes.

    I'd recommend a good southern Rhône to accompany any you happen to shoot or run over. Châteauneuf-du-Pape can be disappointing for the price, but a good Vacqueyras such as Clos des Cazaux, or the excellent Cairanne from the Domaine de l'Oratoire St Martin, should be just the ticket.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,481
    @Peter_The_Punter One of the things I find odd about flat racing is that the 'classics' are restricted to 3 year olds ! Also I'm not instinctively a fan of 2 year old racing, its like a race of 14 year old boys...
  • samsam Posts: 727
    @Peter_the_Punter

    Just watched it on YouTube, pretty amazing.

    A good tipping service is raceclear by the way, a couple of blokes I used to work with run it.
  • Mind you, the biggest vermin problem these days is from deer.

    Yes, good, isn't it? Deer taste a hell of a lot better than foxes.

    I'd recommend a good southern Rhône to accompany any you happen to shoot or run over. Châteauneuf-du-Pape can be disappointing for the price, but a good Vacqueyras such as Clos des Cazaux, or the excellent Cairanne from the Domaine de l'Oratoire St Martin, should be just the ticket.
    I had some Venison this evening, it was very nice and tasty, but a bit dear.

    I'll get my coat.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,189

    Wasn't there a horse called Mr Smithson a few years ago? Anyone know what happened to him? Her?

    Alas he was a gelding.

    Hopefully unlike his namesake? :)
  • @Socrates

    Lol!

    Actually, I'm not crazy about killing insects but then I'm a bit of a Buddhist.

    Most of the arguments about stopping The National, if not jump racing generally, are pretty silly. As long as the horses are well looked after and not subjected to unreasonable risk, nobody should have a problem.

    If I ever gave up watching the sport, it would not be because it is intrinsically cruel - far from it, the horses are mollycoddled - but because I actually get very upset when I see a horse die on the track. Of course I understand that it is an inevitabe consequence of racing horses, and without horseracing one would never see these beautiful animals. The breed would die out.

    It is nevertheless very upsetting to see, not least because of the manifest grief and distress of the owners, trainers, stablehands and all the stricken animal's connections. (The horse itself is usually despatched mercifully quickly.)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,189

    Mind you, the biggest vermin problem these days is from deer.

    Yes, good, isn't it? Deer taste a hell of a lot better than foxes.

    I'd recommend a good southern Rhône to accompany any you happen to shoot or run over. Châteauneuf-du-Pape can be disappointing for the price, but a good Vacqueyras such as Clos des Cazaux, or the excellent Cairanne from the Domaine de l'Oratoire St Martin, should be just the ticket.
    I had some Venison this evening, it was very nice and tasty, but a bit dear.

    I'll get my coat.
    Did you have deer on your stag night?
  • samsam Posts: 727

    Mind you, the biggest vermin problem these days is from deer.

    Yes, good, isn't it? Deer taste a hell of a lot better than foxes.

    I'd recommend a good southern Rhône to accompany any you happen to shoot or run over. Châteauneuf-du-Pape can be disappointing for the price, but a good Vacqueyras such as Clos des Cazaux, or the excellent Cairanne from the Domaine de l'Oratoire St Martin, should be just the ticket.
    I had some Venison this evening, it was very nice and tasty, but a bit dear.

    I'll get my coat.
    a bloke I used to work with went out in a work meal and venison was on the menu... He asked what it was and the waiter said " it's dear Sir"... He said " it's alright mate, it's on the company"
  • Mind you, the biggest vermin problem these days is from deer.

    Yes, good, isn't it? Deer taste a hell of a lot better than foxes.

    I'd recommend a good southern Rhône to accompany any you happen to shoot or run over. Châteauneuf-du-Pape can be disappointing for the price, but a good Vacqueyras such as Clos des Cazaux, or the excellent Cairanne from the Domaine de l'Oratoire St Martin, should be just the ticket.
    I had some Venison this evening, it was very nice and tasty, but a bit dear.

    I'll get my coat.
    Did you have deer on your stag night?
    I don't remember much of my stag do.

    I do have flashbacks of trying to dry hump a gargoyle.
  • Pulpstar said:

    @Peter_The_Punter One of the things I find odd about flat racing is that the 'classics' are restricted to 3 year olds ! Also I'm not instinctively a fan of 2 year old racing, its like a race of 14 year old boys...

    You are talking to the wrong man, Pulpstar.

    I'm a jumps man. The flat is just a way of passing time between April and November when the jumps season proper really gets under way.

    As a betting medium though, I find 2yos quite profitable.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Mind you, the biggest vermin problem these days is from deer.

    Yes, good, isn't it? Deer taste a hell of a lot better than foxes.

    I'd recommend a good southern Rhône to accompany any you happen to shoot or run over. Châteauneuf-du-Pape can be disappointing for the price, but a good Vacqueyras such as Clos des Cazaux, or the excellent Cairanne from the Domaine de l'Oratoire St Martin, should be just the ticket.
    I had some Venison this evening, it was very nice and tasty, but a bit dear.

    I'll get my coat.
    "Venison's dear, isn't it?" is one of Jimmy Carr's shortest jokes. I believe the shortest joke is just two words: "Dwarf shortage."
  • Socrates said:

    Mind you, the biggest vermin problem these days is from deer.

    Yes, good, isn't it? Deer taste a hell of a lot better than foxes.

    I'd recommend a good southern Rhône to accompany any you happen to shoot or run over. Châteauneuf-du-Pape can be disappointing for the price, but a good Vacqueyras such as Clos des Cazaux, or the excellent Cairanne from the Domaine de l'Oratoire St Martin, should be just the ticket.
    I had some Venison this evening, it was very nice and tasty, but a bit dear.

    I'll get my coat.
    "Venison's dear, isn't it?" is one of Jimmy Carr's shortest jokes. I believe the shortest joke is just two words: "Dwarf shortage."
    Correct.
This discussion has been closed.