If this poll is the best they can do it will be another 12 years before someone employs them to produce another poll . 14 days to question just over 1,000 people online and then another 2 weeks to publish thebresults .
Is there a reason why they are giving this liar a platform?
Got a book out, Carswellesque
So if I tell some massive lies and then write a book, can I get an interview on the BBC to promote it? Bad Al seemed to do quite well out of that strategy.
It seems she had a horrific childhood that may have...
Fuck me I'm falling for it!
I don't think it is in doubt she is a very troubled individual.
She was behaving rationally. She wanted to join a group enormously privileged by US law and academia.
If this poll is the best they can do it will be another 12 years before someone employs them to produce another poll . 14 days to question just over 1,000 people online and then another 2 weeks to publish thebresults .
If this poll is the best they can do it will be another 12 years before someone employs them to produce another poll . 14 days to question just over 1,000 people online and then another 2 weeks to publish thebresults .
I put most posters on here in the well off category,so no sympathy ;-)
It's where I was born and brought up but in the last year or so,the place where I live in my eyes is not safe for me and my family ,partly down to the new wave of immigration.
Oh im far from well off - JSA sign on Thursday.. got screwed over with UC - a great idea but put into practice it needs work and I was one of the guinea pigs..
I can understand what you say. From what I see of places like Bradford, Dewsbury and parts of Hull I have no desire for where I was brought up - Exeter and parts of Devon to go the same way. It's why I admire you - we have a lot of 'Westies' where I am now (in East Riding) and fear I would not have had your courage and stayed. Continue to post here your views always resonate.
Muslim immigration should end tomorrow. All of it. Unless Islam Enlightens, we should be encouraging them to LEAVE.
I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims. Cruel and brutal as that may be, that is the case. People weren't allowed to say Stop Muslim Immigration they were only allowed to pull one silly lever with Take Back Control of Migration - so they pulled it.
Without that, Remain would have won.
British parents do not lie awake worrying about Spanish kids taking all the jobs in Pret. They do - I do - worry about Should I take my kid into Westminster, Why does my daughter look scared by women in the local supermarket in niqabs, etc
Yup agree. But shhh some of us arent as well off as you and cant voice that openly.
Fuck that shit. End Muslim immigration. No sane person - no truthful person - can disagree.
Muslim immigration into the West is a proven and absolute disaster, and should be ended. In that respect, the idiot Trump is completely right.
If Muslim migration continues into the EU, UK and USA, at present rates, then we will see Fascist governments elected, which will make Trump, Brexit, Le Pen, Wilders, look like tiny painful burps on the road to Stage 4 lung cancer.
Oh I agree. So here it is. I'm a teacher - a great teacher according to my students and their exam results (got to say that). Taught around the world - Lima, Amman, Prague, Forest of Dean *shudders*etc. etc. Wanked my savings to do an MA as I want to be a writer (not as good as 'The Ice Twins' but better than 'The Genesis Secret' say.. Dealing with my own childhood abuse (hence Depression) paying for it all now. I rock up to a school and say all of that - all of what you have elegantly ejaculated and I have no money no work. It is, what it is. So we shuffle in the dark corners howling at PB strangers. It is what it is.
If this poll is the best they can do it will be another 12 years before someone employs them to produce another poll . 14 days to question just over 1,000 people online and then another 2 weeks to publish thebresults .
Now, now. Just because the LDs are on 7%...
OGH will be on in a minute to tell Mark that a poll you disagree with is one you don't like the results of
I put most posters on here in the well off category,so no sympathy ;-)
It's where I was born and brought up but in the last year or so,the place where I live in my eyes is not safe for me and my family ,partly down to the new wave of immigration.
Oh im far from well off - JSA sign on Thursday.. got screwed over with UC - a great idea but put into practice it needs work and I was one of the guinea pigs..
I can understand what you say. From what I see of places like Bradford, Dewsbury and parts of Hull I have no desire for where I was brought up - Exeter and parts of Devon to go the same way. It's why I admire you - we have a lot of 'Westies' where I am now (in East Riding) and fear I would not have had your courage and stayed. Continue to post here your views always resonate.
Muslim immigration should end tomorrow. All of it. Unless Islam Enlightens, we should be encouraging them to LEAVE.
I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims. Cruel and brutal as that may be, that is the case. People weren't allowed to say Stop Muslim Immigration they were only allowed to pull one silly lever with Take Back Control of Migration - so they pulled it.
Without that, Remain would have won.
British parents do not lie awake worrying about Spanish kids taking all the jobs in Pret. They do - I do - worry about Should I take my kid into Westminster, Why does my daughter look scared by women in the local supermarket in niqabs, etc
Yup agree. But shhh some of us arent as well off as you and cant voice that openly.
Fuck that shit. End Muslim immigration. No sane person - no truthful person - can disagree.
Muslim immigration into the West is a proven and absolute disaster, and should be ended. In that respect, the idiot Trump is completely right.
If Muslim migration continues into the EU, UK and USA, at present rates, then we will see Fascist governments elected, which will make Trump, Brexit, Le Pen, Wilders, look like tiny painful burps on the road to Stage 4 lung cancer.
Oh I agree. So here it is. I'm a teacher - a great teacher according to my students and their exam results (got to say that). Taught around the world - Lima, Amman, Prague, Forest of Dean *shudders*etc. etc. Wanked my savings to do an MA as I want to be a writer (not as good as 'The Ice Twins' but better than 'The Genesis Secret' say.. Dealing with my own childhood abuse (hence Depression) paying for it all now. I rock up to a school and say all of that - all of what you have elegantly ejaculated and I have no money no work. It is, what it is. So we shuffle in the dark corners howling at PB strangers. It is what it is.
If this poll is the best they can do it will be another 12 years before someone employs them to produce another poll . 14 days to question just over 1,000 people online and then another 2 weeks to publish thebresults .
Are 'bresults' the results of polls where parties favouring Brexit do well?
Back in the 1990s, my classmates ceremonially chucked out my school bag from a first floor window after they found Daily Mail clippings of "Britain's best legs" or whatever it was called back then
Yet he's the 5.75 favourite with Betfair to become the next Labour Leader.
The somewhat more encouraging news is that in the same market, Betfair has the dreadful Ms Long-Bailey as having weakened out to 21.
The lack of talent in Labour is astonishing. Starmer is so clearly, obviously and totally unsuitable as a PM: he's just a politically correct android in a suit. He's terrible on TV: Corbyn is better - at least Corbyn has some character.
And yet Starmer is the favourite??
I do not believe in the death of the British Left. There will always be room for a radical poorer voice. They just need to find the right woman or man. But it looks like it might take time, and the loss of Labour Scotland (imagine Labour led by Salmond or Sturgeon!) is a near-mortal wound.
Labour probably needs a strong and competent individual from the centre of the party to hold things together for 2 or 3 years until they decide in which direction they wish to move forward. That's why, from a betting perspective, I decided a couple of days ago on ..... drum roll ...... step forward .... Tom Watson, available from Ladbrokes at stand-out odds of 33/1.
Back in the 1990s, my classmates ceremonially chucked out my school bag from a first floor window after they found Daily Mail clippings of "Britain's best legs" or whatever it was called back then
Hmm. Slightly clumsy, but intermittently effective. Trouble is, Tommy Robinson is just too associated with the thuggish, skinhead Right, to ever cut through in national terms.
Yet parts of his argument make total sense.
The point is: imagine how effective this argument would be, voiced by someone persuasive and plausible. A Tony Blair of the alt-Right.
The great example is Pym Fortuyn. He was close to being Dutch PM, and the Muslim situation has got worse since then. I am pretty sure someone like him will win, in Europe, fairly soon.
I agree but it did give a flavour of what sort of people were on that march of us staying in the EU ;-)
Hmm. Slightly clumsy, but intermittently effective. Trouble is, Tommy Robinson is just too associated with the thuggish, skinhead Right, to ever cut through in national terms.
Yet parts of his argument make total sense.
The point is: imagine how effective this argument would be, voiced by someone persuasive and plausible. A Tony Blair of the alt-Right.
The great example is Pym Fortuyn. He was close to being Dutch PM, and the Muslim situation has got worse since then. I am pretty sure someone like him will win, in Europe, fairly soon.
A Canadian man's last name has been deemed too offensive to go on his personalised car number plate. Lorne Grabher says the plate, which he has had for decades, was suddenly refused when it came up for renewal.
At the Labour end of the New Normal but still consistent with the general position of Tories low 40s, Labour mid-high 20s, UKIP/LDs around 10 each.
The Corbyn favourability suggests that if Parliament were dissolved tomorrow, the Labour score at the ensuing election would be 22-26%.
Seems fair, given that Labour's polling performance has only rarely dipped below 25%, but also allowing for some further swing towards the Government during an election campaign.
Apart from in Scotland, where the SNP have displaced and marginalised Labour, this is really all about trying to make an educated guess about where Labour's absolute floor actually is. On the one hand Corbyn's ratings are catastrophic, but on the other Labour as a party still polls rather better, and presumably has a fair amount of purchase with a variety of remnant core voter groups: working age people who are largely or wholly benefit dependent (as distinct from the working poor,) the unionised public sector workforce, genuine far left believers, students, a big cohort of cultural and brand loyalty voters, and a large part of the BAME vote (skewed, crudely speaking, away from high achieving and Jewish voters, and towards more economically disadvantaged and Muslim ones.) However, set against that Labour's vote share will also suffer due to disproportionately low turnout, compared with the Tories.
Whether all of this means that Labour is currently heading for a vote share around about its 1983 level, or much closer to 20%, or somewhere in between is, of course, anyone's guess!
A Canadian man's last name has been deemed too offensive to go on his personalised car number plate. Lorne Grabher says the plate, which he has had for decades, was suddenly refused when it came up for renewal.
A Canadian man's last name has been deemed too offensive to go on his personalised car number plate. Lorne Grabher says the plate, which he has had for decades, was suddenly refused when it came up for renewal.
A Canadian man's last name has been deemed too offensive to go on his personalised car number plate. Lorne Grabher says the plate, which he has had for decades, was suddenly refused when it came up for renewal.
At the Labour end of the New Normal but still consistent with the general position of Tories low 40s, Labour mid-high 20s, UKIP/LDs around 10 each.
The Corbyn favourability suggests that if Parliament were dissolved tomorrow, the Labour score at the ensuing election would be 22-26%.
Seems fair, given that Labour's polling performance has only rarely dipped below 25%, but also allowing for some further swing towards the Government during an election campaign.
Apart from in Scotland, where the SNP have displaced and marginalised Labour, this is really all about trying to make an educated guess about where Labour's absolute floor actually is. On the one hand Corbyn's ratings are catastrophic, but on the other Labour as a party still polls rather better, and presumably has a fair amount of purchase with a variety of remnant core voter groups: working age people who are largely or wholly benefit dependent (as distinct from the working poor,) the unionised public sector workforce, genuine far left believers, students, a big cohort of cultural and brand loyalty voters, and a large part of the BAME vote (skewed, crudely speaking, away from high achieving and Jewish voters, and towards more economically disadvantaged and Muslim ones.) However, set against that Labour's vote share will also suffer due to disproportionately low turnout, compared with the Tories.
Whether all of this means that Labour is currently heading for a vote share around about its 1983 level, or much closer to 20%, or somewhere in between is, of course, anyone's guess!
Election campaigns usually move against the Government! The only exceptions to that since 1951 are 2015 - 1992 and 1983. In 1992 and 2015 , it is now clear that the polls were wrong all along due to methodological issues. In the 1983 campaign, the Tory vote share fell, but Labour's vote fell even more sharply due to a swing to the Alliance in the last ten days of the campaign.
At the Labour end of the New Normal but still consistent with the general position of Tories low 40s, Labour mid-high 20s, UKIP/LDs around 10 each.
The Corbyn favourability suggests that if Parliament were dissolved tomorrow, the Labour score at the ensuing election would be 22-26%.
Seems fair, given that Labour's polling performance has only rarely dipped below 25%, but also allowing for some further swing towards the Government during an election campaign.
Apart from in Scotland, where the SNP have displaced and marginalised Labour, this is really all about trying to make an educated guess about where Labour's absolute floor actually is. On the one hand Corbyn's ratings are catastrophic, but on the other Labour as a party still polls rather better, and presumably has a fair amount of purchase with a variety of remnant core voter groups: working age people who are largely or wholly benefit dependent (as distinct from the working poor,) the unionised public sector workforce, genuine far left believers, students, a big cohort of cultural and brand loyalty voters, and a large part of the BAME vote (skewed, crudely speaking, away from high achieving and Jewish voters, and towards more economically disadvantaged and Muslim ones.) However, set against that Labour's vote share will also suffer due to disproportionately low turnout, compared with the Tories.
Whether all of this means that Labour is currently heading for a vote share around about its 1983 level, or much closer to 20%, or somewhere in between is, of course, anyone's guess!
Election campaigns usually move against the Government! The only exceptions to that since 1951 are 2015 - 1992 and 1983. In 1992 and 2015 , it is now clear that the polls were wrong all along due to methodological issues. In the 1983 campaign, the Tory vote share fell, but Labour's vote fell even more sharply due to a swing to the Alliance in the last ten days of the campaign.
So the only exceptions are three of the last four elections when we had a Tory government?
At the Labour end of the New Normal but still consistent with the general position of Tories low 40s, Labour mid-high 20s, UKIP/LDs around 10 each.
The Corbyn favourability suggests that if Parliament were dissolved tomorrow, the Labour score at the ensuing election would be 22-26%.
Seems fair, given that Labour's polling performance has only rarely dipped below 25%, but also allowing for some further swing towards the Government during an election campaign.
Apart from in Scotland, where the SNP have displaced and marginalised Labour, this is really all about trying to make an educated guess about where Labour's absolute floor actually is. On the one hand Corbyn's ratings are catastrophic, but on the other Labour as a party still polls rather better, and presumably has a fair amount of purchase with a variety of remnant core voter groups: working age people who are largely or wholly benefit dependent (as distinct from the working poor,) the unionised public sector workforce, genuine far left believers, students, a big cohort of cultural and brand loyalty voters, and a large part of the BAME vote (skewed, crudely speaking, away from high achieving and Jewish voters, and towards more economically disadvantaged and Muslim ones.) However, set against that Labour's vote share will also suffer due to disproportionately low turnout, compared with the Tories.
Whether all of this means that Labour is currently heading for a vote share around about its 1983 level, or much closer to 20%, or somewhere in between is, of course, anyone's guess!
Election campaigns usually move against the Government! The only exceptions to that since 1951 are 2015 - 1992 and 1983. In 1992 and 2015 , it is now clear that the polls were wrong all along due to methodological issues. In the 1983 campaign, the Tory vote share fell, but Labour's vote fell even more sharply due to a swing to the Alliance in the last ten days of the campaign.
So the only exceptions are three of the last four elections when we had a Tory government?
On reflection, I am inclined to add 1979 and 1997 - but in both cases the incumbent Government was lagging the Opposition by a very big margin and some recovery in the Government's ratings was to be reasonably expected. There is actually no postwar example of a Government going into an election campaign with a huge lead and managing to extend that lead even further in the course of the campaign. Re- 1983 , I slightly misled myself - the Tory lead on Polling Day was not actually bigger than at the outset - though it did narrow in the early part of the election.
Six hours after first hearing of that Corbyn nearly as unpopular Trump, I still can't process.
Is there no electoral low Corbyn won't sink to?
To be fair to Trump, Corbyn had already set the bar pretty low, and at least Trump can always say he managed to win both a party nomination and a nationwide election ...... And I say that as a political anorak who is no fan of Trump or a UK political scene were the main Opposition remain AWOL.
If Keir Starmer is the best Labour have got God help them. Having said that Remainers were by a distance the most persuasive.
The Tories dodged a bullet when they didn't elect Davis.
Wow! Roger and I agree twice in this post! I know that Keir Starmer is highly regarded in some quarters as a possible future Labour Leader who could possible turn their current political fortunes around. But as a political anorak, I am just not getting the X factor that should be happening if he was the next best thing for the Labour party if it was serious about regaining power. And certainly no signs that he would be a hit with the Labour membership or the Unions as I did when I successfully backed Miliband, and despite being totally underwhelmed by him or his brother.
And Roger is right, the Conservatives definitely dodged a bullet when we didn't elect David Davis! But if tonight's Brexit QuestionTime is any guide, both Keir Starmer and David Davis totally failed to impress their toughest audience, both Remain and Brexit voters! And Roger, this is where we disagree, the Remainers were not by a distance the winners of this debate, and I say that as someone who voted Remain. I hate to say this, but both Melanie Phillips and Suzanne Evans put up a far better fight.
And as for Clegg and Salmond, well lets just say that they continue to get the mood of the nation wrong, but they were strongly rooting for students and SNP voters that voted remain... At some point both the Libdems and the SNP are going to realise that it was mistake to go so strongly against the EU Referendum result, its one thing to oppose Brexit, but quite another to be seen as actively trying to undermine the chance of UKplc getting the best deal possible from Brexit.
Coming back to that Poll - 12% UKIP, 7% Lib Dem seems a bit off the mark to me......sure its the right way round. I just cannot see 12% of voters going UKIP
Is there a reason why they are giving this liar a platform?
Got a book out, Carswellesque
So if I tell some massive lies and then write a book, can I get an interview on the BBC to promote it? Bad Al seemed to do quite well out of that strategy.
It seems she had a horrific childhood that may have...
Fuck me I'm falling for it!
There are a couple of interviews with her parents saying that her tale of childhood woe is pretty much entirely made up...
Is there a reason why they are giving this liar a platform?
Got a book out, Carswellesque
So if I tell some massive lies and then write a book, can I get an interview on the BBC to promote it? Bad Al seemed to do quite well out of that strategy.
It seems she had a horrific childhood that may have...
Fuck me I'm falling for it!
There are a couple of interviews with her parents saying that her tale of childhood woe is pretty much entirely made up...
I'd have thought that anyone who was interested in this area would do better reading Philip Roth's The Human Stain.
If this is gloomy for Labour, what about the Lib Dems. They will not move in these national polls with Clegg at the front of their Euro campaign, he is not trusted or liked by the group of voters they need. He should go back to being invisible.
It's where I was born and brought up but in the last year or so,the place where I live in my eyes is not safe for me and my family ,partly down to the new wave of immigration.
I can understand what you say. From what I see of places like Bradford, Dewsbury and parts of Hull I have no desire for where I was brought up - Exeter and parts of Devon to go the same way. It's why I admire you - we have a lot of 'Westies' where I am now (in East Riding) and fear I would not have had your courage and stayed. Continue to post here your views always resonate.
Muslim immigration should end tomorrow. All of it. Unless Islam Enlightens, we should be encouraging them to LEAVE.
I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims. Cruel and brutal as that may be, that is the case. People weren't allowed to say Stop Muslim Immigration they were only allowed to pull one silly lever with Take Back Control of Migration - so they pulled it.
Without that, Remain would have won.
British parents do not lie awake worrying about Spanish kids taking all the jobs in Pret. They do - I do - worry about Should I take my kid into Westminster, Why does my daughter look scared by women in the local supermarket in niqabs, etc
Yup agree. But shhh some of us arent as well off as you and cant voice that openly.
Fuck that shit. End Muslim immigration. No sane person - no truthful person - can disagree.
Muslim immigration into the West is a proven and absolute disaster, and should be ended. In that respect, the idiot Trump is completely right.
If Muslim migration continues into the EU, UK and USA, at present rates, then we will see Fascist governments elected, which will make Trump, Brexit, Le Pen, Wilders, look like tiny painful burps on the road to Stage 4 lung cancer.
Oh I agree. So here it is. I'm a teacher - a great teacher according to my students and their exam results (got to say that). Taught around the world - Lima, Amman, Prague, Forest of Dean *shudders*etc. etc. Wanked my savings to do an MA as I want to be a writer (not as good as 'The Ice Twins' but better than 'The Genesis Secret' say.. Dealing with my own childhood abuse (hence Depression) paying for it all now. I rock up to a school and say all of that - all of what you have elegantly ejaculated and I have no money no work. It is, what it is. So we shuffle in the dark corners howling at PB strangers. It is what it is.
Apols i massively fucked up the quoting there.
"I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims." Poland and Eastern Europe are not particularly Islamic countries.
Coming back to that Poll - 12% UKIP, 7% Lib Dem seems a bit off the mark to me......sure its the right way round. I just cannot see 12% of voters going UKIP
UKIP voters have a habit of turning up at the right pressure points.
2014 Euros, 2014 Clacton, Heywood and Rochester, 2015 in enough numbers to damage Labour and the Libs to get the referendum booked, 2016 to win it.
"12% UKIP, 7% Lib Dem seems a bit off the mark to me."
Considering their main reason to exist has gone, the Kipper vote seems high. But thee are a few about - the ones who feel they have no voice. Liberals talk loudly, and are well represented in the media. Kippers complain only in certain company.
It's where I was born and brought up but in the last year or so,the place where I live in my eyes is not safe for me and my family ,partly down to the new wave of immigration.
I can understand what you say. From what I see of places like Bradford, Dewsbury and parts of Hull I have no desire for where I was brought up - Exeter and parts of Devon to go the same way. It's why I admire you - we have a lot of 'Westies' where I am now (in East Riding) and fear I would not have had your courage and stayed. Continue to post here your views always resonate.
Muslim immigration should end tomorrow. All of it. Unless Islam Enlightens, we should be encouraging them to LEAVE.
I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims. Cruel and brutal as that may be, that is the case. People weren't allowed to say Stop Muslim Immigration they were only allowed to pull one silly lever with Take Back Control of Migration - so they pulled it.
Without that, Remain would have won.
British parents do not lie awake worrying about Spanish kids taking all the jobs in Pret. They do - I do - worry about Should I take my kid into Westminster, Why does my daughter look scared by women in the local supermarket in niqabs, etc
Yup agree. But shhh some of us arent as well off as you and cant voice that openly.
Fuck that shit. End Muslim immigration. No sane person - no truthful person - can disagree.
Muslim immigration into the West is a proven and absolute disaster, and should be ended. In that respect, the idiot Trump is completely right.
If .
it is.
Apols i massively fucked up the quoting there.
"I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims." Poland and Eastern Europe are not particularly Islamic countries.
Many ordinary people keep their mouths shut or say, 'you can't say that', not because they are secret bigots (although some are) but because they lack the vocabulary and verbal dexterity to be sure of avoiding any charges of bigotry when expressing how they feel.
The benefit of the doubt is rarely given. If they get it wrong, they could lose their jobs and forever be tarnished. That could cause them and their families real financial hardship.
The EU has a porous southern border with the MENA terrorist and war zone hotspots and once you are in and get your EU citizenship from any country willing to grant it then the UK is fully accessIble.
All in all I would suggest that the EUs tendency to put the cart before the house is again a problem. The EU should have had a Common Immigration and Asylum Policy in order to function properly. Instead Merkel invites a million, others sling up barbed wire. Just another fine Euro mess.
It seems fairly evident that we already have a second generation integration problem with previous waves of arrival that buy into medieval Islam and possibly from converts with racial/colonial issues.Adrian from Dartford, Michael from Romford, Jermaine from Dewsbury ?
The EU makes a repeat run ever more probable and God knows the French, Germans and Belgians already have a lot on their plates.
It's where I was born and brought up but in the last year or so,the place where I live in my eyes is not safe for me and my family ,partly down to the new wave of immigration.
I can understand what you say. From what I see of places like Bradford, Dewsbury and parts of Hull I have no desire for where I was brought up - Exeter and parts of Devon to go the same way. It's why I admire you - we have a lot of 'Westies' where I am now (in East Riding) and fear I would not have had your courage and stayed. Continue to post here your views always resonate.
Muslim immigration should end tomorrow. All of it. Unless Islam Enlightens, we should be encouraging them to LEAVE.
I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims. Cruel and brutal as that may be, that is the case. People weren't allowed to say Stop Muslim Immigration they were only allowed to pull one silly lever with Take Back Control of Migration - so they pulled it.
Without that, Remain would have won.
British parents do not lie awake worrying about Spanish kids taking all the jobs in Pret. They do - I do - worry about Should I take my kid into Westminster, Why does my daughter look scared by women in the local supermarket in niqabs, etc
Yup agree. But shhh some of us arent as well off as you and cant voice that openly.
Fuck that shit. End Muslim immigration. No sane person - no truthful person - can disagree.
Muslim immigration into the West is a proven and absolute disaster, and should be ended. In that respect, the idiot Trump is completely right.
If .
it is.
Apols i massively fucked up the quoting there.
"I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims." Poland and Eastern Europe are not particularly Islamic countries.
Many ordinary people keep their mouths shut or say, 'you can't say that', not because they are secret bigots (although some are) but because they lack the vocabulary and verbal dexterity to be sure of avoiding any charges of bigotry when expressing how they feel.
The benefit of the doubt is rarely given. If they get it wrong, they could lose their jobs and forever be tarnished. That could cause them and their families real financial hardship.
Safer to stay quiet.
Yes, I'd like to make it clear that I also mucked up the quotes. The bit that I said was: "I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims." Poland and Eastern Europe are not particularly Islamic countries.
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
It seems self evidently unrealistic. That one will happen seems inevitable, and that yes may win very possible, but the basic point that if Scotland is to vote to leave due to what has happened with the eu, that they really need to know what deal the uk will end up with before they decide, is highly relevant. Frankly, since it gives years of being able to compkaib about being thwarted, it works well for the snp regardless.
Wow! Roger and I agree twice in this post! I know that Keir Starmer is highly regarded in some quarters as a possible future Labour Leader who could possible turn their current political fortunes around. But as a political anorak, I am just not getting the X factor that should be happening if he was the next best thing for the Labour party if it was serious about regaining power. And certainly no signs that he would be a hit with the Labour membership or the Unions as I did when I successfully backed Miliband, and despite being totally underwhelmed by him or his brother.
And Roger is right, the Conservatives definitely dodged a bullet when we didn't elect David Davis! But if tonight's Brexit QuestionTime is any guide, both Keir Starmer and David Davis totally failed to impress their toughest audience, both Remain and Brexit voters! And Roger, this is where we disagree, the Remainers were not by a distance the winners of this debate, and I say that as someone who voted Remain. I hate to say this, but both Melanie Phillips and Suzanne Evans put up a far better fight.
And as for Clegg and Salmond, well lets just say that they continue to get the mood of the nation wrong, but they were strongly rooting for students and SNP voters that voted remain... At some point both the Libdems and the SNP are going to realise that it was mistake to go so strongly against the EU Referendum result, its one thing to oppose Brexit, but quite another to be seen as actively trying to undermine the chance of UKplc getting the best deal possible from Brexit.
None of the others matter apart from Davis, although we could do with a better opposition than provided by Labour. They are has-beens (Clegg andSalmond), so awful even UKIP didn't want her (Evans) and mad (Phillips). We're relying on David Davis to deliver the trickiest deal Britain has ever had to sign and it's clear he doesn't have a clue.
Thanks. It's where I was born and brought up but in the last year or so,the place where I live in my eyes is not safe for me and my family ,partly down to the new wave of immigration.
I can understand what you say. From what I see of places like Bradford, Dewsbury and parts of Hull I have no desire for where I was brought up - Exeter and parts of Devon to go the same way. It's why I admire you - we have a lot of 'Westies' where I am now (in East Riding) and fear I would not have had your courage and stayed. Continue to post here your views always resonate.
Muslim immigration should end tomorrow. All of it. Unless Islam Enlightens, we should be encouraging them to LEAVE. I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims. Cruel and brutal as that may be, that is the case. People weren't allowed to say Stop Muslim Immigration they were only allowed to pull one silly lever with Take Back Control of Migration - so they pulled it. Without that, Remain would have won. British parents do not lie awake worrying about Spanish kids taking all the jobs in Pret. They do - I do - worry about Should I take my kid into Westminster, Why does my daughter look scared by women in the local supermarket in niqabs, etc
Yup agree. But shhh some of us arent as well off as you and cant voice that openly.
Fuck that shit. End Muslim immigration. No sane person - no truthful person - can disagree. Muslim immigration into the West is a proven and absolute disaster, and should be ended. In that respect, the idiot Trump is completely right. If Muslim migration continues into the EU, UK and USA, at present rates, then we will see Fascist governments elected, which will make Trump, Brexit, Le Pen, Wilders, look like tiny painful burps on the road to Stage 4 lung cancer.
Oh I agree. So here it is. I'm a teacher - a great teacher according to my students and their exam results (got to say that). Taught around the world - Lima, Amman, Prague, Forest of Dean *shudders*etc. etc. Wanked my savings to do an MA as I want to be a writer (not as good as 'The Ice Twins' but better than 'The Genesis Secret' say.. Dealing with my own childhood abuse (hence Depression) paying for it all now. I rock up to a school and say all of that - all of what you have elegantly ejaculated and I have no money no work. It is, what it is. So we shuffle in the dark corners howling at PB strangers. It is what it is.
"I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims." Poland and Eastern Europe are not particularly Islamic countries.
Many ordinary people keep their mouths shut or say, 'you can't say that', not because they are secret bigots (although some are) but because they lack the vocabulary and verbal dexterity to be sure of avoiding any charges of bigotry when expressing how they feel. The benefit of the doubt is rarely given. If they get it wrong, they could lose their jobs and forever be tarnished. That could cause them and their families real financial hardship. Safer to stay quiet.
Yes, I'd like to make it clear that I also mucked up the quotes. The bit that I said was: "I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims." Poland and Eastern Europe are not particularly Islamic countries.
If Sean T thinks the PM is a 61-year-old (she's 60 actually, but anyway) pmilf, it makes me think that Sean is Winston Smith having a dream about the ageing street lady in the proletarian quarters to whom he paid $2. In which case, who is Nicola Sturgeon? An alternative O'Brien, perhaps?
As the persistence of Kipperism has been mentioned ... I have faith in the BBC when it says it is impartial. It tries to be.
However, it's never going to represent the true make-up of the country. It can't, even when it tries its best. It is a middle-class verging on posh, public-school orientated, articulate, liberal group and mind-set. As such it is a minority, and struggles to understand why others think differently. But it tries its best to be impartial and that's all you can ask.
As the persistence of Kipperism has been mentioned ... I have faith in the BBC when it says it is impartial. It tries to be.
However, it's never going to represent the true make-up of the country. It can't, even when it tries its best. It is a middle-class verging on posh, public-school orientated, articulate, liberal group and mind-set. As such it is a minority, and struggles to understand why others think differently. But it tries its best to be impartial and that's all you can ask.
Indeed. It falls short, some would say too much, but it makes an effort, and those who seize on every little thing overreact.
If Sean T thinks the PM is a 61-year-old (she's 60 actually, but anyway) pmilf, it makes me think that Sean is Winston Smith having a dream about the ageing street lady in the proletarian quarters to whom he paid $2. In which case, who is Nicola Sturgeon? An alternative O'Brien, perhaps?
sounds like a thread header is needed to answer that one
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
To clarify my question - I would point out that the overwhelming evidence is that Sturgeon neither wants nor expects a second referendum. She announced this, more or less out of the blue (less than a week's warning) without having formulated a basic policy position on the EU, which she claimed was the reason she was calling for a new referendum! Her timetable was also silly. No way will the EU discuss Scotland in advance of Brexit, as the Spanish keep confirming. So Scotland will have to leave the EU in which case there is no logical reason to rush into another divisive referendum. Moreover, as all the evidence is that she would lose it, but time and demographic change are on her side, the timing if she really does want a second referendum- which given the only thing she cares about is iScotland, seems very likely - shockingly inept.
What she really appears to be doing is threefold: 1) to shore up her support on the right by throwing some anti-English red meat to them in advance of local elections where the SNP's poor domestic record may be a problem 2) bring heavy pressure to bear on Theresa May over EU negotiations and more powers for Holyrood by threatening a wildcat vote 3) massage her own wounded ego over the fact that she has been on the losing side in both the last two referendums and seemingly can't get her head around the fact that what she wants - an independent Scotland in the EU - is simply a minority position (even in Scotland).
It's extremely stupid and unhelpful of her to behave like this, but it does rather distract attention from her other problems. Smart politics, poor states(wo)manship, foolish way to run a country.
If this is gloomy for Labour, what about the Lib Dems. They will not move in these national polls with Clegg at the front of their Euro campaign, he is not trusted or liked by the group of voters they need. He should go back to being invisible.
Indeed. The LibDems should go back to putting Farron at the heart of their campai....
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
To clarify my question - I would point out that the overwhelming evidence is that Sturgeon neither wants nor expects a second referendum. She announced this, more or less out of the blue (less than a week's warning) without having formulated a basic policy position on the EU, which she claimed was the reason she was calling for a new referendum! Her timetable was also silly. No way will the EU discuss Scotland in advance of Brexit, as the Spanish keep confirming. So Scotland will have to leave the EU in which case there is no logical reason to rush into another divisive referendum. Moreover, as all the evidence is that she would lose it, but time and demographic change are on her side, the timing if she really does want a second referendum- which given the only thing she cares about is iScotland, seems very likely - shockingly inept.
What she really appears to be doing is threefold: 1) to shore up her support on the right by throwing some anti-English red meat to them in advance of local elections where the SNP's poor domestic record may be a problem 2) bring heavy pressure to bear on Theresa May over EU negotiations and more powers for Holyrood by threatening a wildcat vote 3) massage her own wounded ego over the fact that she has been on the losing side in both the last two referendums and seemingly can't get her head around the fact that what she wants - an independent Scotland in the EU - is simply a minority position (even in Scotland).
It's extremely stupid and unhelpful of her to behave like this, but it does rather distract attention from her other problems. Smart politics, poor states(wo)manship, foolish way to run a country.
Salmond is looking on in the wings. She will rue the day....
What chance the SNP perform significantly on the downside in May? That would be fun. How would Sturgeon move to recover from that?
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
Unlike Cameron May is refusing to rush to agree to every SNP refererendum demand and with polling in Scotland largely on her side she can effectively ignore Sturgeon
As the persistence of Kipperism has been mentioned ... I have faith in the BBC when it says it is impartial. It tries to be.
However, it's never going to represent the true make-up of the country. It can't, even when it tries its best. It is a middle-class verging on posh, public-school orientated, articulate, liberal group and mind-set. As such it is a minority, and struggles to understand why others think differently. But it tries its best to be impartial and that's all you can ask.
Well it could also ask that the licence fee becomes optional. If that were the case I'd be interested to see what % paid it.
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
It's extremely stupid and unhelpful of her to behave like this, but it does rather distract attention from her other problems. Smart politics, poor states(wo)manship, foolish way to run a country.
Fair summary - she's also got "old man in a hurry" Salmond breathing down her neck.....
Wow! Roger and I agree twice in this post! I know that Keir Starmer is highly regarded in some quarters as a possible future Labour Leader who could possible turn their current political fortunes around. But as a political anorak, I am just not getting the X factor that should be happening if he was the next best thing for the Labour party if it was serious about regaining power. And certainly no signs that he would be a hit with the Labour membership or the Unions as I did when I successfully backed Miliband, and despite being totally underwhelmed by him or his brother.
And Roger is right, the Conservatives definitely dodged a bullet when we didn't elect David Davis! But if tonight's Brexit QuestionTime is any guide, both Keir Starmer and David Davis totally failed to impress their toughest audience, both Remain and Brexit voters! And Roger, this is where we disagree, the Remainers were not by a distance the winners of this debate, and I say that as someone who voted Remain. I hate to say this, but both Melanie Phillips and Suzanne Evans put up a far better fight.
And as for Clegg and Salmond, well lets just say that they continue to get the mood of the nation wrong, but they were strongly rooting for students and SNP voters that voted remain... At some point both the Libdems and the SNP are going to realise that it was mistake to go so strongly against the EU Referendum result, its one thing to oppose Brexit, but quite another to be seen as actively trying to undermine the chance of UKplc getting the best deal possible from Brexit.
None of the others matter apart from Davis, although we could do with a better opposition than provided by Labour. They are has-beens (Clegg andSalmond), so awful even UKIP didn't want her (Evans) and mad (Phillips). We're relying on David Davis to deliver the trickiest deal Britain has ever had to sign and it's clear he doesn't have a clue.
What is the 'best' deal though? For Remainers it is full membership of the single market and for most Leavers it is controls on free movement and no more money to the EU. The two are irreconcilable and Davis has to navigate his way between
"I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims." Poland and Eastern Europe are not particularly Islamic countries.
If one was concerned about muslim immigration in the UK then the last thing one should have done was vote Leave. The immigration is going to have to come from somewhere and if it's not going to be from the A8 EU states (predominantly christian) then it's going to come from the Middle East/Africa (predominantly muslim).
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
Unlike Cameron May is refusing to rush to agree to every SNP refererendum demand and with polling in Scotland largely on her side she can effectively ignore Sturgeon
Shhhh! Doesn't fit with the "all conquering Sturgeon" (who lost her Majority) "useless May" (ignore the polls) narrative.....
Mr. Glenn, the notion of holding a referendum on Scottish independence before the UK has left the EU is drunken madness proposed by Sturgeon in a transparent attempt to manufacture outrage by playing silly buggers in an effort to guarantee a refusal for her preferred (and knowingly idiotic) timetable.
As the persistence of Kipperism has been mentioned ... I have faith in the BBC when it says it is impartial. It tries to be.
However, it's never going to represent the true make-up of the country. It can't, even when it tries its best. It is a middle-class verging on posh, public-school orientated, articulate, liberal group and mind-set. As such it is a minority, and struggles to understand why others think differently. But it tries its best to be impartial and that's all you can ask.
Well it could also ask that the licence fee becomes optional. If that were the case I'd be interested to see what % paid it.
I wouldn't.
Fine as long as you never watch any BBC channels though personally I would give some license fee money to other broadcasters and allow advertising on the BBC
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
Unlike Cameron May is refusing to rush to agree to every SNP refererendum demand and with polling in Scotland largely on her side she can effectively ignore Sturgeon
Shhhh! Doesn't fit with the "all conquering Sturgeon" (who lost her Majority) "useless May" (ignore the polls) narrative.....
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
If that was the case, why didnt they discuss Sturgeon's timetable?
Because May has no credible argument against it.
Seriously? I dont like may much, and the case for a referendum is strong, but the timetable? That's easy to argue against, as several very strong points have been made. It simply makes no sense to have a vote before it is known what Scotlands position in the U.K. Will be in relation to the eu - core Indy supporters won't care, but some former no voters might need that knowledge before switching. In fact the argument against the timetable is so strong I would not be surprised if it was deliberately a poor timetable - it was an opening gambit, great if it could be got, but grievance fuel if not. Seeing for sure if May fails is a stronger card for sturgeon to play than an Indy campaign before it is certain May has failed.
Mr. Glenn, the notion of holding a referendum on Scottish independence before the UK has left the EU is drunken madness proposed by Sturgeon in a transparent attempt to manufacture outrage by playing silly buggers in an effort to guarantee a refusal for her preferred (and knowingly idiotic) timetable.
Mr. Glenn, the notion of holding a referendum on Scottish independence before the UK has left the EU is drunken madness proposed by Sturgeon in a transparent attempt to manufacture outrage by playing silly buggers in an effort to guarantee a refusal for her preferred (and knowingly idiotic) timetable.
The EU has a porous southern border with the MENA terrorist and war zone hotspots and once you are in and get your EU citizenship from any country willing to grant it then the UK is fully accessIble.
Entirely the point of the infamous 'Breaking Point' poster. Merkel can unilaterally invite 1m people in from terrorist hotspots then once they have German citizenship, they can come here at their leisure.
Which is why a vote for Brexit was more joined up with a vote against islamic immigration than some seem to think.
But this is just one example of the absurdity. There are countless others. People being allowed to stay in the country because of their pets, etc.
Someone I knew - I say knew because they'll no longer talk to me - was a Canadian whose visa was about to expire. They were busy desperately trying to prove Hungarian ancestry so they could stay in the UK. I pointed out the absurdity of the situation where they could be in the UK, fully integrated, tax paying, for close to a decade and be booted out - yet anyone, rich or poor, good or bad, born in Hungary, with absolutely no ties to the country cound just wander over any time they liked, leading the UK government to throw out hard-working people to make room for total unknowns. I said this was an argument for more control over our borders, not less.
I have literally no idea why it is so hard for many on the left and in the political establishment to comprehend that control over borders, being able to decide who you let in, is a fundamental tenet of nationhood. Without it you're not a country. You're a free-for-all.
Even if you choose to let in millions, a country should have control over who it lets in, and those people making that decision should be held directly accountable to the people who elect them. Why is that so much to ask? Why are you a racist for asking it?
The EU has a porous southern border with the MENA terrorist and war zone hotspots and once you are in and get your EU citizenship from any country willing to grant it then the UK is fully accessIble.
All in all I would suggest that the EUs tendency to put the cart before the house is again a problem. The EU should have had a Common Immigration and Asylum Policy in order to function properly. Instead Merkel invites a million, others sling up barbed wire. Just another fine Euro mess.
It seems fairly evident that we already have a second generation integration problem with previous waves of arrival that buy into medieval Islam and possibly from converts with racial/colonial issues.Adrian from Dartford, Michael from Romford, Jermaine from Dewsbury ?
The EU makes a repeat run ever more probable and God knows the French, Germans and Belgians already have a lot on their plates.
There's an amazing Bruce Schnier article from about 2001 on the futility of DRM systems. That is, they inconvenience honest users and don't bother criminal ones.
The same is true of the argument that leaving the EU makes it meaningfully harder for Islamic terrorists to get into the UK.
Unless we plan on requiring visas for all EU citizens coming to the UK, then - frankly - their ability to get into our country has changed not a bit on exit. And if we do require a visa, why wouldn't a would be Jihadi lie on the question "religion"?
And, of course, preventing EU citizens from coming to the UK doesn't stop those from Saudi Arabia (for instance) where there is a massively higher incidence of those with Wahabbi/ISIS/Al Queda leanings.
We could, of course, require a visa for all potential visitors to the UK. We could require interviews at British embassies ahead of trips here. We could seal the border with Northern Ireland.
Of course, this would cause significant economic pain, and mostly inconvenience the innocent. And, with all the Islamic terrorists who have killed people on British soil in the last 20 years having been born here, it would likely not have any impact on whether we got attacked.
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
If that was the case, why didnt they discuss Sturgeon's timetable?
Because May has no credible argument against it.
Seriously? I dont like may much, and the case for a referendum is strong, but the timetable? That's easy to argue against, as several very strong points have been made. It simply makes no sense to have a vote before it is known what Scotlands position in the U.K. Will be in relation to the eu - core Indy supporters won't care, but some former no voters might need that knowledge before switching. In fact the argument against the timetable is so strong I would not be surprised if it was deliberately a poor timetable - it was an opening gambit, great if it could be got, but grievance fuel if not. Seeing for sure if May fails is a stronger card for sturgeon to play than an Indy campaign before it is certain May has failed.
If Scotland leaves, doesn't that change the EU vote too?
Britain in the EU Vs. Independent England
Has never been asked. No doubt the latter appeals to many here.
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
If that was the case, why didnt they discuss Sturgeon's timetable?
Because May has no credible argument against it.
Seriously? I dont like may much, and the case for a referendum is strong, but the timetable? That's easy to argue against, as several very strong points have been made. It simply makes no sense to have a vote before it is known what Scotlands position in the U.K. Will be in relation to the eu - core Indy supporters won't care, but some former no voters might need that knowledge before switching. In fact the argument against the timetable is so strong I would not be surprised if it was deliberately a poor timetable - it was an opening gambit, great if it could be got, but grievance fuel if not. Seeing for sure if May fails is a stronger card for sturgeon to play than an Indy campaign before it is certain May has failed.
I would hope we might have a few clues by end 2018 / early 2019 when it is proposed to have it. As they run over Scotland in their Jackboots it only irritates people more.
The Daily Mail's front page is wrong in so many ways but the editor must be delighted by the huge media storm as everyone is talking about his paper today. Tasteless it was but maybe he will see it as a successful marketing coup
The Daily Mail's front page is wrong in so many ways but the editor must be delighted by the huge media storm as everyone is talking about his paper today. Tasteless it was but maybe he will see it as a successful marketing coup
Is it technically possible to damage the Mails reputation?
As the persistence of Kipperism has been mentioned ... I have faith in the BBC when it says it is impartial. It tries to be.
However, it's never going to represent the true make-up of the country. It can't, even when it tries its best. It is a middle-class verging on posh, public-school orientated, articulate, liberal group and mind-set. As such it is a minority, and struggles to understand why others think differently. But it tries its best to be impartial and that's all you can ask.
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
If that was the case, why didnt they discuss Sturgeon's timetable?
Because May has no credible argument against it.
Seriously? I dont like may much, and the case for a referendum is strong, but the timetable? That's easy to argue against, as several very strong points have been made. It simply makes no sense to have a vote before it is known what Scotlands position in the U.K. Will be in relation to the eu - core Indy supporters won't care, but some former no voters might need that knowledge before switching. In fact the argument against the timetable is so strong I would not be surprised if it was deliberately a poor timetable - it was an opening gambit, great if it could be got, but grievance fuel if not. Seeing for sure if May fails is a stronger card for sturgeon to play than an Indy campaign before it is certain May has failed.
If Scotland leaves, doesn't that change the EU vote too?
Britain in the EU Vs. Independent England
Has never been asked. No doubt the latter appeals to many here.
The Telegraph had a poll a fortnight ago that given such a choice an independent England would win (though presumably with Leave voting Wales too)
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
If that was the case, why didnt they discuss Sturgeon's timetable?
May is just playing dumb and hoping for the best, hard to discuss with a deaf ear.
Morning Malc - Theresa May is playing hardball and is confident the Scots do not want indy2 at this time. Nicola has taken a gamble which I think was influenced by Salmond but I cannot see Indy2 before GE 2020 unless there is a tangible move of support within Scotland. May's elections will be a good barometer
The EU has a porous southern border with the MENA terrorist and war zone hotspots and once you are in and get your EU citizenship from any country willing to grant it then the UK is fully accessIble.
All in all I would suggest that the EUs tendency to put the cart before the house is again a problem. The EU should have had a Common Immigration and Asylum Policy in order to function properly. Instead Merkel invites a million, others sling up barbed wire. Just another fine Euro mess.
It seems fairly evident that we already have a second generation integration problem with previous waves of arrival that buy into medieval Islam and possibly from converts with racial/colonial issues.Adrian from Dartford, Michael from Romford, Jermaine from Dewsbury ?
The EU makes a repeat run ever more probable and God knows the French, Germans and Belgians already have a lot on their plates.
There's an amazing Bruce Schnier article from about 2001 on the futility of DRM systems. That is, they inconvenience honest users and don't bother criminal ones.
The same is true of the argument that leaving the EU makes it meaningfully harder for Islamic terrorists to get into the UK.
Unless we plan on requiring visas for all EU citizens coming to the UK, then - frankly - their ability to get into our country has changed not a bit on exit. And if we do require a visa, why wouldn't a would be Jihadi lie on the question "religion"?
And, of course, preventing EU citizens from coming to the UK doesn't stop those from Saudi Arabia (for instance) where there is a massively higher incidence of those with Wahabbi/ISIS/Al Queda leanings.
We could, of course, require a visa for all potential visitors to the UK. We could require interviews at British embassies ahead of trips here. We could seal the border with Northern Ireland.
Of course, this would cause significant economic pain, and mostly inconvenience the innocent. And, with all the Islamic terrorists who have killed people on British soil in the last 20 years having been born here, it would likely not have any impact on whether we got attacked.
It was Merkel's bringing in of refugees from Syria which may have tipped some to Leave but I would agree short of mass deportations, which only the ultra Fascist Right would consider, leaving the EU will make little difference to the risk of Islamic terrorism here
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
If that was the case, why didnt they discuss Sturgeon's timetable?
Because May has no credible argument against it.
Seriously? I dont like may much, and the case for a referendum is strong, but the timetable? That's easy to argue against, as several very strong points have been made. It simply makes no sense to have a vote before it is known what Scotlands position in the U.K. Will be in relation to the eu - core Indy supporters won't care, but some former no voters might need that knowledge before switching. In fact the argument against the timetable is so strong I would not be surprised if it was deliberately a poor timetable - it was an opening gambit, great if it could be got, but grievance fuel if not. Seeing for sure if May fails is a stronger card for sturgeon to play than an Indy campaign before it is certain May has failed.
I would hope we might have a few clues by end 2018 / early 2019 when it is proposed to have it. As they run over Scotland in their Jackboots it only irritates people more.
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
If that was the case, why didnt they discuss Sturgeon's timetable?
Because May has no credible argument against it.
Seriously? I dont like may much, and the case for a referendum is strong, but the timetable? That's easy to argue against, as several very strong points have been made. It simply makes no sense to have a vote before it is known what Scotlands position in the U.K. Will be in relation to the eu - core Indy supporters won't care, but some former no voters might need that knowledge before switching. In fact the argument against the timetable is so strong I would not be surprised if it was deliberately a poor timetable - it was an opening gambit, great if it could be got, but grievance fuel if not. Seeing for sure if May fails is a stronger card for sturgeon to play than an Indy campaign before it is certain May has failed.
The timetable is for after Brexit negotiations have been concluded but before the uk has fucked off.
Nothing has been said to say that the UK is not aiming for a negotiation timetable that fits with IndyRef2 timetable.
The Daily Mail's front page is wrong in so many ways but the editor must be delighted by the huge media storm as everyone is talking about his paper today. Tasteless it was but maybe he will see it as a successful marketing coup
Yes, that's right. It's a ridiculous front page, but most people who really dislike this sort of thing probably don't read a tabloid at all. It does move downmarket, given that they try to be a paper with pretensions to serious coverage (you can see most topics of the day covered, which isn't true of the Sun), but that's not their main appeal.
A couple of observations about yesterday's May/Sturgeon meeting:
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
Actual conclusion: May's position is incredibly weak and has done nothing to suggest Sturgeon's timetable is in any way unrealistic.
If that was the case, why didnt they discuss Sturgeon's timetable?
May is just playing dumb and hoping for the best, hard to discuss with a deaf ear.
Yes, that is Sturgeon' s problem.
Well, also her problem is that she can only get a referendum by agreement with HMG but in order to do so she has to break the existing agreement with HMG.
On topic: I like this polling! Despite all the continuing Project Fear doom mongering there is still a very clear (and in fact expanding) lead for Brexit. Huzzah! Labour massively behind in the polls and making zero headway. GE catastrophe looms. Ditto! UKIP 5% ahead of LDs! hahahaha. And it's a sunny day. Will be tomorrow too as we file our national divorce papers. What's not to like?
On topic: I like this polling! Despite all the continuing Project Fear doom mongering there is still a very clear (and in fact expanding) lead for Brexit. Huzzah! Labour massively behind in the polls and making zero headway. GE catastrophe looms. Ditto! UKIP 5% ahead of LDs! hahahaha. And it's a sunny day. Will be tomorrow too as we file our national divorce papers. What's not to like?
Yes, thread after thread of UKIP bashing yet they're 5% ahead of the Libs.
Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome.
The Daily Mail's front page is wrong in so many ways but the editor must be delighted by the huge media storm as everyone is talking about his paper today. Tasteless it was but maybe he will see it as a successful marketing coup
It's a win-win.
The Mail's detractors will be secretly pleased as they can exercise righteous indignation over it, which will make them feel good and hopefully win them praise.
The Daily Mail gets extra coverage, and more sales.
Many of the former will also read the latter (and secretly rather enjoy the article) without anyone ever knowing.
The Daily Mail is both widely disliked and hugely successful because it understands perfectly human hypocrisy and makes it a core part of its business model.
Saw the post you posted on last thread,hope things improve for you.
Thank you sir. Went to Bradford at the end of last year. Was a shock. Completely sympathise with all you say on here. I think if more people (by that I mean London folk) went to see what is happening in Bradford, Dewsbury etc it would give much better understanding of where we are as a country. I know I could not have done what you are doing.
Thanks.
I put most posters on here in the well off category,so no sympathy ;-)
It's where I was born and brought up but in the last year or so,the place where I live in my eyes is not safe for me and my family ,partly down to the new wave of immigration.
Oh im far from well off - JSA sign on Thursday.. got screwed over with UC - a great idea but put into practice it needs work and I was one of the guinea pigs..
I can understand what you say. From what I see of places like Bradford, Dewsbury and parts of Hull I have no desire for where I was brought up - Exeter and parts of Devon to go the same way. It's why I admire you - we have a lot of 'Westies' where I am now (in East Riding) and fear I would not have had your courage and stayed. Continue to post here your views always resonate.
Muslim immigration should end tomorrow. All of it. Unless Islam Enlightens, we should be encouraging them to LEAVE.
I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims. Cruel and brutal as that may be, that is the case. People weren't allowed to say Stop Muslim Immigration they were only allowed to pull one silly lever with Take Back Control of Migration - so they pulled it.
Without that, Remain would have won.
British parents do not lie awake worrying about Spanish kids taking all the jobs in Pret. They do - I do - worry about Should I take my kid into Westminster, Why does my daughter look scared by women in the local supermarket in niqabs, etc
Yup agree. But shhh some of us arent as well off as you and cant voice that openly.
Wasn't aimed at you mr Y ,should have explained myself better on what I meant -sorry.
Salmond is looking on in the wings. She will rue the day....
What chance the SNP perform significantly on the downside in May? That would be fun. How would Sturgeon move to recover from that?
On that basis, what would be an upside performance for your dear leader who framed the council elections around the proposition that 'voters across Scotland will have the chance to send a clear message to the SNP that they do not want a second independence referendum by voting Scottish Conservative and Unionist on 4 May'?
The Daily Mail's front page is wrong in so many ways but the editor must be delighted by the huge media storm as everyone is talking about his paper today. Tasteless it was but maybe he will see it as a successful marketing coup
It's a win-win.
The Mail's detractors will be secretly pleased as they can exercise righteous indignation over it, which will make them feel good and hopefully win them praise.
The Daily Mail gets extra coverage, and more sales.
Many of the former will also read the latter (and secretly rather enjoy the article) without anyone ever knowing.
The Daily Mail is both widely disliked and hugely successful because it understands perfectly human hypocrisy and makes it a core part of its business model.
Comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VsZBLBgphU
Thanks.
I put most posters on here in the well off category,so no sympathy ;-)
It's where I was born and brought up but in the last year or so,the place where I live in my eyes is not safe for me and my family ,partly down to the new wave of immigration.
Oh im far from well off - JSA sign on Thursday.. got screwed over with UC - a great idea but put into practice it needs work and I was one of the guinea pigs..
I can understand what you say. From what I see of places like Bradford, Dewsbury and parts of Hull I have no desire for where I was brought up - Exeter and parts of Devon to go the same way. It's why I admire you - we have a lot of 'Westies' where I am now (in East Riding) and fear I would not have had your courage and stayed. Continue to post here your views always resonate.
Muslim immigration should end tomorrow. All of it. Unless Islam Enlightens, we should be encouraging them to LEAVE.
I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims. Cruel and brutal as that may be, that is the case. People weren't allowed to say Stop Muslim Immigration they were only allowed to pull one silly lever with Take Back Control of Migration - so they pulled it.
Without that, Remain would have won.
British parents do not lie awake worrying about Spanish kids taking all the jobs in Pret. They do - I do - worry about Should I take my kid into Westminster, Why does my daughter look scared by women in the local supermarket in niqabs, etc
Yup agree. But shhh some of us arent as well off as you and cant voice that openly.
Fuck that shit. End Muslim immigration. No sane person - no truthful person - can disagree.
Muslim immigration into the West is a proven and absolute disaster, and should be ended. In that respect, the idiot Trump is completely right.
If Muslim migration continues into the EU, UK and USA, at present rates, then we will see Fascist governments elected, which will make Trump, Brexit, Le Pen, Wilders, look like tiny painful burps on the road to Stage 4 lung cancer.
Oh I agree. So here it is. I'm a teacher - a great teacher according to my students and their exam results (got to say that). Taught around the world - Lima, Amman, Prague, Forest of Dean *shudders*etc. etc. Wanked my savings to do an MA as I want to be a writer (not as good as 'The Ice Twins' but better than 'The Genesis Secret' say.. Dealing with my own childhood abuse (hence Depression) paying for it all now. I rock up to a school and say all of that - all of what you have elegantly ejaculated and I have no money no work. It is, what it is. So we shuffle in the dark corners howling at PB strangers. It is what it is.
I can understand what you say. From what I see of places like Bradford, Dewsbury and parts of Hull I have no desire for where I was brought up - Exeter and parts of Devon to go the same way. It's why I admire you - we have a lot of 'Westies' where I am now (in East Riding) and fear I would not have had your courage and stayed. Continue to post here your views always resonate.
Muslim immigration should end tomorrow. All of it. Unless Islam Enlightens, we should be encouraging them to LEAVE.
I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims. Cruel and brutal as that may be, that is the case. People weren't allowed to say Stop Muslim Immigration they were only allowed to pull one silly lever with Take Back Control of Migration - so they pulled it.
Without that, Remain would have won.
British parents do not lie awake worrying about Spanish kids taking all the jobs in Pret. They do - I do - worry about Should I take my kid into Westminster, Why does my daughter look scared by women in the local supermarket in niqabs, etc
Yup agree. But shhh some of us arent as well off as you and cant voice that openly.
Fuck that shit. End Muslim immigration. No sane person - no truthful person - can disagree.
Muslim immigration into the West is a proven and absolute disaster, and should be ended. In that respect, the idiot Trump is completely right.
If Muslim migration continues into the EU, UK and USA, at present rates, then we will see Fascist governments elected, which will make Trump, Brexit, Le Pen, Wilders, look like tiny painful burps on the road to Stage 4 lung cancer.
Oh I agree. So here it is. I'm a teacher - a great teacher according to my students and their exam results (got to say that). Taught around the world - Lima, Amman, Prague, Forest of Dean *shudders*etc. etc. Wanked my savings to do an MA as I want to be a writer (not as good as 'The Ice Twins' but better than 'The Genesis Secret' say.. Dealing with my own childhood abuse (hence Depression) paying for it all now. I rock up to a school and say all of that - all of what you have elegantly ejaculated and I have no money no work. It is, what it is. So we shuffle in the dark corners howling at PB strangers. It is what it is.
Apols i massively fucked up the quoting there.
At the Labour end of the New Normal but still consistent with the general position of Tories low 40s, Labour mid-high 20s, UKIP/LDs around 10 each.
The Corbyn favourability suggests that if Parliament were dissolved tomorrow, the Labour score at the ensuing election would be 22-26%.
https://m.soundcloud.com/thepoliticalparty/show-25-tommy-robinson
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39410234
Apart from in Scotland, where the SNP have displaced and marginalised Labour, this is really all about trying to make an educated guess about where Labour's absolute floor actually is. On the one hand Corbyn's ratings are catastrophic, but on the other Labour as a party still polls rather better, and presumably has a fair amount of purchase with a variety of remnant core voter groups: working age people who are largely or wholly benefit dependent (as distinct from the working poor,) the unionised public sector workforce, genuine far left believers, students, a big cohort of cultural and brand loyalty voters, and a large part of the BAME vote (skewed, crudely speaking, away from high achieving and Jewish voters, and towards more economically disadvantaged and Muslim ones.) However, set against that Labour's vote share will also suffer due to disproportionately low turnout, compared with the Tories.
Whether all of this means that Labour is currently heading for a vote share around about its 1983 level, or much closer to 20%, or somewhere in between is, of course, anyone's guess!
And Roger is right, the Conservatives definitely dodged a bullet when we didn't elect David Davis! But if tonight's Brexit QuestionTime is any guide, both Keir Starmer and David Davis totally failed to impress their toughest audience, both Remain and Brexit voters! And Roger, this is where we disagree, the Remainers were not by a distance the winners of this debate, and I say that as someone who voted Remain. I hate to say this, but both Melanie Phillips and Suzanne Evans put up a far better fight.
And as for Clegg and Salmond, well lets just say that they continue to get the mood of the nation wrong, but they were strongly rooting for students and SNP voters that voted remain... At some point both the Libdems and the SNP are going to realise that it was mistake to go so strongly against the EU Referendum result, its one thing to oppose Brexit, but quite another to be seen as actively trying to undermine the chance of UKplc getting the best deal possible from Brexit.
- Sturgeon had to come to May, rather than May travel to Edinburgh
- This was after May had addressed DFID employees who owe their jobs to the Union And
- Had a meeting with Police Scotland (not one of the SNP's conspicuous successes) on serious stuff - terrorism and cooperation within the Union.
- May dictated the venue, turning down a Scottish government suggestion of a Scottish government building.
- Net, Sturgeon's little helpers couldn't plaster the place with Saltires a la Bute House.
- Conclusion, May will not remotely be the walkover Cameron was.
I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims. Cruel and brutal as that may be, that is the case. People weren't allowed to say Stop Muslim Immigration they were only allowed to pull one silly lever with Take Back Control of Migration - so they pulled it.
Without that, Remain would have won.
British parents do not lie awake worrying about Spanish kids taking all the jobs in Pret. They do - I do - worry about Should I take my kid into Westminster, Why does my daughter look scared by women in the local supermarket in niqabs, etc
Yup agree. But shhh some of us arent as well off as you and cant voice that openly.
Fuck that shit. End Muslim immigration. No sane person - no truthful person - can disagree.
Muslim immigration into the West is a proven and absolute disaster, and should be ended. In that respect, the idiot Trump is completely right.
If Muslim migration continues into the EU, UK and USA, at present rates, then we will see Fascist governments elected, which will make Trump, Brexit, Le Pen, Wilders, look like tiny painful burps on the road to Stage 4 lung cancer.
Oh I agree. So here it is. I'm a teacher - a great teacher according to my students and their exam results (got to say that). Taught around the world - Lima, Amman, Prague, Forest of Dean *shudders*etc. etc. Wanked my savings to do an MA as I want to be a writer (not as good as 'The Ice Twins' but better than 'The Genesis Secret' say.. Dealing with my own childhood abuse (hence Depression) paying for it all now. I rock up to a school and say all of that - all of what you have elegantly ejaculated and I have no money no work. It is, what it is. So we shuffle in the dark corners howling at PB strangers. It is what it is.
Apols i massively fucked up the quoting there.
"I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims."
Poland and Eastern Europe are not particularly Islamic countries.
2014 Euros, 2014 Clacton, Heywood and Rochester, 2015 in enough numbers to damage Labour and the Libs to get the referendum booked, 2016 to win it.
They don't chase the Thursday Bin Vote.
They will be back if there is backsliding.
"12% UKIP, 7% Lib Dem seems a bit off the mark to me."
Considering their main reason to exist has gone, the Kipper vote seems high. But thee are a few about - the ones who feel they have no voice. Liberals talk loudly, and are well represented in the media. Kippers complain only in certain company.
So, I'm surprised, but I can believe it.
Fuck that shit. End Muslim immigration. No sane person - no truthful person - can disagree.
Muslim immigration into the West is a proven and absolute disaster, and should be ended. In that respect, the idiot Trump is completely right.
If .
it is.
Apols i massively fucked up the quoting there.
"I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims."
Poland and Eastern Europe are not particularly Islamic countries.
Many ordinary people keep their mouths shut or say, 'you can't say that', not because they are secret bigots (although some are) but because they lack the vocabulary and verbal dexterity to be sure of avoiding any charges of bigotry when expressing how they feel.
The benefit of the doubt is rarely given. If they get it wrong, they could lose their jobs and forever be tarnished. That could cause them and their families real financial hardship.
Safer to stay quiet.
The EU has a porous southern border with the MENA terrorist and war zone hotspots and once you are in and get your EU citizenship from any country willing to grant it then the UK is fully accessIble.
All in all I would suggest that the EUs tendency to put the cart before the house is again a problem. The EU should have had a Common Immigration and Asylum Policy in order to function properly. Instead Merkel invites a million, others sling up barbed wire. Just another fine Euro mess.
It seems fairly evident that we already have a second generation integration problem with previous waves of arrival that buy into medieval Islam and possibly from converts with racial/colonial issues.Adrian from Dartford, Michael from Romford, Jermaine from Dewsbury ?
The EU makes a repeat run ever more probable and God knows the French, Germans and Belgians already have a lot on their plates.
Muslim immigration into the West is a proven and absolute disaster, and should be ended. In that respect, the idiot Trump is completely right.
If .
it is.
Apols i massively fucked up the quoting there.
"I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims."
Poland and Eastern Europe are not particularly Islamic countries.
Many ordinary people keep their mouths shut or say, 'you can't say that', not because they are secret bigots (although some are) but because they lack the vocabulary and verbal dexterity to be sure of avoiding any charges of bigotry when expressing how they feel.
The benefit of the doubt is rarely given. If they get it wrong, they could lose their jobs and forever be tarnished. That could cause them and their families real financial hardship.
Safer to stay quiet.
Yes, I'd like to make it clear that I also mucked up the quotes. The bit that I said was:
"I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims."
Poland and Eastern Europe are not particularly Islamic countries.
"I am pretty sure the LEAVE vote was in many ways a proxy for No More Muslims."
Poland and Eastern Europe are not particularly Islamic countries.
I'm hoping it was someone cynical who knew it would get massive outraged Twitter shares for free publicity and click throughs.
However, it's never going to represent the true make-up of the country. It can't, even when it tries its best. It is a middle-class verging on posh, public-school orientated, articulate, liberal group and mind-set. As such it is a minority, and struggles to understand why others think differently. But it tries its best to be impartial and that's all you can ask.
What she really appears to be doing is threefold: 1) to shore up her support on the right by throwing some anti-English red meat to them in advance of local elections where the SNP's poor domestic record may be a problem 2) bring heavy pressure to bear on Theresa May over EU negotiations and more powers for Holyrood by threatening a wildcat vote 3) massage her own wounded ego over the fact that she has been on the losing side in both the last two referendums and seemingly can't get her head around the fact that what she wants - an independent Scotland in the EU - is simply a minority position (even in Scotland).
It's extremely stupid and unhelpful of her to behave like this, but it does rather distract attention from her other problems. Smart politics, poor states(wo)manship, foolish way to run a country.
Oh.
Unsurprising numbers, frankly. Perhaps excepting the weak Conservative lead in the overall intention to vote numbers.
What chance the SNP perform significantly on the downside in May? That would be fun. How would Sturgeon move to recover from that?
I wouldn't.
Indyref1: 18 months
Induref2: 0 months
Which is why a vote for Brexit was more joined up with a vote against islamic immigration than some seem to think.
But this is just one example of the absurdity. There are countless others. People being allowed to stay in the country because of their pets, etc.
Someone I knew - I say knew because they'll no longer talk to me - was a Canadian whose visa was about to expire. They were busy desperately trying to prove Hungarian ancestry so they could stay in the UK. I pointed out the absurdity of the situation where they could be in the UK, fully integrated, tax paying, for close to a decade and be booted out - yet anyone, rich or poor, good or bad, born in Hungary, with absolutely no ties to the country cound just wander over any time they liked, leading the UK government to throw out hard-working people to make room for total unknowns. I said this was an argument for more control over our borders, not less.
I have literally no idea why it is so hard for many on the left and in the political establishment to comprehend that control over borders, being able to decide who you let in, is a fundamental tenet of nationhood. Without it you're not a country. You're a free-for-all.
Even if you choose to let in millions, a country should have control over who it lets in, and those people making that decision should be held directly accountable to the people who elect them. Why is that so much to ask? Why are you a racist for asking it?
The same is true of the argument that leaving the EU makes it meaningfully harder for Islamic terrorists to get into the UK.
Unless we plan on requiring visas for all EU citizens coming to the UK, then - frankly - their ability to get into our country has changed not a bit on exit. And if we do require a visa, why wouldn't a would be Jihadi lie on the question "religion"?
And, of course, preventing EU citizens from coming to the UK doesn't stop those from Saudi Arabia (for instance) where there is a massively higher incidence of those with Wahabbi/ISIS/Al Queda leanings.
We could, of course, require a visa for all potential visitors to the UK. We could require interviews at British embassies ahead of trips here. We could seal the border with Northern Ireland.
Of course, this would cause significant economic pain, and mostly inconvenience the innocent. And, with all the Islamic terrorists who have killed people on British soil in the last 20 years having been born here, it would likely not have any impact on whether we got attacked.
"Well it could also ask that the licence fee becomes optional. If that were the case I'd be interested to see what % paid it."
I wouldn't. it's an anachronism from another century.
But no one group of like-minded people can be truly unbiased. At least their small biases are clear.
Britain in the EU
Vs.
Independent England
Has never been asked. No doubt the latter appeals to many here.
Nothing has been said to say that the UK is not aiming for a negotiation timetable that fits with IndyRef2 timetable.
https://twitter.com/katie_martin_fx/status/846614916496699392
Well, also her problem is that she can only get a referendum by agreement with HMG but in order to do so she has to break the existing agreement with HMG.
Mr. NorthWales, aye. Maybe for the next Sir Edric story I should send it to the easily offended, and let their shrieks of outrage get me publicity.
The agony of choice.
Despite all the continuing Project Fear doom mongering there is still a very clear (and in fact expanding) lead for Brexit. Huzzah!
Labour massively behind in the polls and making zero headway. GE catastrophe looms. Ditto!
UKIP 5% ahead of LDs! hahahaha.
And it's a sunny day. Will be tomorrow too as we file our national divorce papers.
What's not to like?
Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome.
The Mail's detractors will be secretly pleased as they can exercise righteous indignation over it, which will make them feel good and hopefully win them praise.
The Daily Mail gets extra coverage, and more sales.
Many of the former will also read the latter (and secretly rather enjoy the article) without anyone ever knowing.
The Daily Mail is both widely disliked and hugely successful because it understands perfectly human hypocrisy and makes it a core part of its business model.
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/846465091063173120
That is the face of someone who's Hail Mary Pass just missed the pitch, no matter what the spin.