Does this not make a snap election significantly more likely ? A lot easier for remainer tories to rebel on this than the A50 vote ?
Maybe Theresa May will see how the Tories do at the local elections before deciding whether to hold an election this year as Mrs Thatcher did in the 1980s.
The irony is that even if the overall GDP remains healthy [ 1.5% - 2% growth ], people's living standards will be squeezed throughout this year thanks to sterling's devaluation last year.
It is the opposite of the years after the credit crunch when the economy was poor but because inflation was close to zero or negative and interest rates fell to its lowest in 300 years, personal disposable income actually rose.
By September this year, the rate of inflation will catch up with wage rates.
Does this not make a snap election significantly more likely ? A lot easier for remainer tories to rebel on this than the A50 vote ?
Maybe Theresa May will see how the Tories do at the local elections before deciding whether to hold an election this year as Mrs Thatcher did in the 1980s.
The irony is that even if the overall GDP remains healthy [ 1.5% - 2% growth ], people's living standards will be squeezed throughout this year thanks to sterling's devaluation last year.
It is the opposite of the years after the credit crunch when the economy was bad but because inflation was close to zero or negative and interest rates fell to its lowest in 300 years, personal disposable actually rose.
By September this year, the rate of inflation will catch up with wage rates.
Inflation got up to 5% in 2011. Wage growth was below inflation from 2008-2014.
Is there anyone who'd object who couldn't be dismissed as a bitter liberal? A touch drastic perhaps, but it would make Theresa's life a lot easier.
It's a good start but she should also do something about that poky flat in Downing Street. Perhaps move the Prime Minister's residence to Cliveden House so she has a fitting setting to sign her executive orders. She could also survey her Maidenhead constituents in the distance.
Actually no. Parliamentary sovereignty has never extended into Treaty making which is rightly the purview of the Executive
And Executive privilege does not extend into lawmaking, which Brexit is.
There is a vote triggering Article 50 which is right. Parliament is now overreaching by trying to tie the executive's hands
Parliament is sovereign not the executive. It really doesn't get much simpler than that.
Parliament doesn't negotiate treaties.
Parliament may do as it pleases and should it wish instruct the government as it sees fit.
That's why referendums have rightly been called “a device of dictators and demagogues” since they seek to bypass constitutional government.
Funny, Switzerland is not renowned as a land of dictators and demagogues. It strikes me that the only people who object to referendums are those who don't like people to have the chance to have their say.
500 years of peace, and all they've been able to come up with is the cuckoo clock ...
Really ?
One or two Nobel laureates might disagree.
Kurt Wüthrich, Chemistry, 2002 Médecins Sans Frontières, Peace, 1999 Rolf M. Zinkernagel, Physiology or Medicine, 1996 Edmond H. Fischer, born in China, Physiology or Medicine, 1992 Richard R. Ernst, Chemistry, 1991 Karl Alexander Müller, Physics, 1987 Heinrich Rohrer, Physics, 1986 Georges J. F. Köhler, born in Germany (worked in Switzerland for 1976 to 1984), Physiology or Medicine, 1984 Werner Arber, Physiology or Medicine, 1978 Vladimir Prelog, born in then Austria-Hungary, now Bosnia-Herzegovina, Chemistry, 1975 Daniel Bovet, Physiology or Medicine, 1957 Felix Bloch, Physics, 1952 Tadeus Reichstein, Physiology or Medicine, 1950 Walter Rudolf Hess, Physiology or Medicine, 1949 Paul Hermann Müller, Physiology or Medicine, 1948 Hermann Hesse, born in Germany, Literature, 1946 Leopold Ružička, born in then Austria-Hungary, now Croatia, Chemistry, 1939 Paul Karrer, Chemistry, 1937 Albert Einstein, born in Germany, Physics, 1921 Charles Édouard Guillaume, Physics, 1920 Carl Spitteler, Literature, 1919 Alfred Werner, Chemistry, 1913 Theodor Kocher, Physiology or Medicine, 1909 Élie Ducommun, Peace, 1902 Charles Albert Gobat, Peace, 1902 Henry Dunant, Peace, 1901
Does this not make a snap election significantly more likely ? A lot easier for remainer tories to rebel on this than the A50 vote ?
Maybe Theresa May will see how the Tories do at the local elections before deciding whether to hold an election this year as Mrs Thatcher did in the 1980s.
The irony is that even if the overall GDP remains healthy [ 1.5% - 2% growth ], people's living standards will be squeezed throughout this year thanks to sterling's devaluation last year.
It is the opposite of the years after the credit crunch when the economy was poor but because inflation was close to zero or negative and interest rates fell to its lowest in 300 years, personal disposable income actually rose.
By September this year, the rate of inflation will catch up with wage rates.
By September, the rate of inflation will be falling because the devaluation was a spike event that will be ironed out of the comparable figures.
Actually no. Parliamentary sovereignty has never extended into Treaty making which is rightly the purview of the Executive
And Executive privilege does not extend into lawmaking, which Brexit is.
There is a vote triggering Article 50 which is right. Parliament is now overreaching by trying to tie the executive's hands
Parliament is sovereign not the executive. It really doesn't get much simpler than that.
Parliament doesn't negotiate treaties.
Parliament may do as it pleases and should it wish instruct the government as it sees fit.
That's why referendums have rightly been called “a device of dictators and demagogues” since they seek to bypass constitutional government.
Funny, Switzerland is not renowned as a land of dictators and demagogues. It strikes me that the only people who object to referendums are those who don't like people to have the chance to have their say.
500 years of peace, and all they've been able to come up with is the cuckoo clock ...
Actually no. Parliamentary sovereignty has never extended into Treaty making which is rightly the purview of the Executive
And Executive privilege does not extend into lawmaking, which Brexit is.
There is a vote triggering Article 50 which is right. Parliament is now overreaching by trying to tie the executive's hands
Parliament is sovereign not the executive. It really doesn't get much simpler than that.
Parliament doesn't negotiate treaties.
Parliament may do as it pleases and should it wish instruct the government as it sees fit.
That's why referendums have rightly been called “a device of dictators and demagogues” since they seek to bypass constitutional government.
Funny, Switzerland is not renowned as a land of dictators and demagogues. It strikes me that the only people who object to referendums are those who don't like people to have the chance to have their say.
500 years of peace, and all they've been able to come up with is the cuckoo clock ...
Really ?
One or two Nobel laureates might disagree.
Kurt Wüthrich, Chemistry, 2002 Médecins Sans Frontières, Peace, 1999 Rolf M. Zinkernagel, Physiology or Medicine, 1996 Edmond H. Fischer, born in China, Physiology or Medicine, 1992 Richard R. Ernst, Chemistry, 1991 Karl Alexander Müller, Physics, 1987 Heinrich Rohrer, Physics, 1986 Georges J. F. Köhler, born in Germany (worked in Switzerland for 1976 to 1984), Physiology or Medicine, 1984 Werner Arber, Physiology or Medicine, 1978 Vladimir Prelog, born in then Austria-Hungary, now Bosnia-Herzegovina, Chemistry, 1975 Daniel Bovet, Physiology or Medicine, 1957 Felix Bloch, Physics, 1952 Tadeus Reichstein, Physiology or Medicine, 1950 Walter Rudolf Hess, Physiology or Medicine, 1949 Paul Hermann Müller, Physiology or Medicine, 1948 Hermann Hesse, born in Germany, Literature, 1946 Leopold Ružička, born in then Austria-Hungary, now Croatia, Chemistry, 1939 Paul Karrer, Chemistry, 1937 Albert Einstein, born in Germany, Physics, 1921 Charles Édouard Guillaume, Physics, 1920 Carl Spitteler, Literature, 1919 Alfred Werner, Chemistry, 1913 Theodor Kocher, Physiology or Medicine, 1909 Élie Ducommun, Peace, 1902 Charles Albert Gobat, Peace, 1902 Henry Dunant, Peace, 1901
Incidentally the 366-268 vote in the Lords was the "largest in history" vote by the Lords. I make that a total of 634 Lords voted for the highest ever vote.
There have before been many Commons votes at a higher turnout than 634 MPs.
So Sunil's oft-stated fact about the Lords being larger than the Commons isn't meaningfully accurate.
"The prior approval of both Houses of Parliament shall also be required in relation to any decision by the Prime Minister that the United Kingdom shall leave the European Union without an agreement as to the applicable terms."
That decision is not in the purview of either the Government or Parliament. If we get to the end of the two year negotiating period and there is no deal then it is a decision of all 28 countries including the UK as to whether that negotiation continues or we leave. If any one of those countries decides they want us out then that is it. No matter what the Government or the Lords want we will be out.
It all depends on whether Article 50 is revocable or not - and that is not yet determined.
I know many religious Quitters are in denial about that because they think their victory may be snatched away from them. And it might.
They referred the question to the people who instructed them to exit the EU. It is up to the Executive to Execute that instruction (the clue is in the name).
Certain members of Parliament are seeking to overurn the decision of the people. Since their authority descended from the people that is presumtuous in the extreme.
Since their authority descends from the people it has equal weight. If the people don't like it, they can throw them out.
It's perplexing why Leavers feel such a sense of urgency about getting out of the EU. They do not fear some coming European war or something of equal gravity. No, it's because they know that popular consent for Brexit will not last, and they want to make sure it is a done deal before the people can speak again.
Why the urgency ? They are scared that the people will find out that they were conned. So they want it done quickly.
Does this not make a snap election significantly more likely ? A lot easier for remainer tories to rebel on this than the A50 vote ?
Maybe Theresa May will see how the Tories do at the local elections before deciding whether to hold an election this year as Mrs Thatcher did in the 1980s.
The irony is that even if the overall GDP remains healthy [ 1.5% - 2% growth ], people's living standards will be squeezed throughout this year thanks to sterling's devaluation last year.
It is the opposite of the years after the credit crunch when the economy was bad but because inflation was close to zero or negative and interest rates fell to its lowest in 300 years, personal disposable actually rose.
By September this year, the rate of inflation will catch up with wage rates.
Inflation got up to 5% in 2011. Wage growth was below inflation from 2008-2014.
Additionally, the 2017 minimum wage and basic rate thresholds for tax are set for 4%+ increases, while the higher 40% band allowance increases by over 10%.
Currency related inflation will start to drop out of the numbers by the end of the year unless everyone else starts raising interest rates and we don't.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
The problem the Lord's has is that they are neither elected nor electable. I don't mind at all the notion of an unelected upper house that serve as some sort of guardians of the nation, however the people who are actually there are hopeless. I'm particularly annoyed by Heseltine. What does he have against female PMs?
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
In amongst all of this it's worth recalling the 2015 manifestos of the main parties who stand for remain;
Labour - House of Lords scrapped and replaced SNP - House of Lords scrapped and replaced Lib Dems - House of Lords scrapped and replaced Greens - House of Lords scrapped and replaced
Actually no. Parliamentary sovereignty has never extended into Treaty making which is rightly the purview of the Executive
And Executive privilege does not extend into lawmaking, which Brexit is.
There is a vote triggering Article 50 which is right. Parliament is now overreaching by trying to tie the executive's hands
Parliament is sovereign not the executive. It really doesn't get much simpler than that.
Parliament doesn't negotiate treaties.
Parliament may do as it pleases and should it wish instruct the government as it sees fit.
They referred the question to the people who instructed them to exit the EU. It is up to the Executive to Execute that instruction (the clue is in the name).
Certain members of Parliament are seeking to overurn the decision of the people. Since their authority descended from the people that is presumtuous in the extreme.
In the USA authority descends from the people via the states to the federal. In the UK, it is the other way round. We are all subjects and know our place. Remember the Royal Prerogative.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
The problem the Lord's has is that they are neither elected nor electable. I don't mind at all the notion of an unelected upper house that serve as some sort of guardians of the nation, however the people who are actually there are hopeless. I'm particularly annoyed by Heseltine. What does he have against female PMs?
The Alan Clark quote about having to buy his own furniture is the best vignette of Hezza.
Actually no. Parliamentary sovereignty has never extended into Treaty making which is rightly the purview of the Executive
And Executive privilege does not extend into lawmaking, which Brexit is.
There is a vote triggering Article 50 which is right. Parliament is now overreaching by trying to tie the executive's hands
Parliament is sovereign not the executive. It really doesn't get much simpler than that.
Parliament doesn't negotiate treaties.
Parliament may do as it pleases and should it wish instruct the government as it sees fit.
They referred the question to the people who instructed them to exit the EU. It is up to the Executive to Execute that instruction (the clue is in the name).
Certain members of Parliament are seeking to overurn the decision of the people. Since their authority descended from the people that is presumtuous in the extreme.
In the USA authority descends from the people via the states to the federal. In the UK, it is the other way round. We are all subjects and know our place. Remember the Royal Prerogative.
It's evolving. In any event the Royal Authority derived from the fact that were the Guardian of the People.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
The problem the Lord's has is that they are neither elected nor electable. I don't mind at all the notion of an unelected upper house that serve as some sort of guardians of the nation, however the people who are actually there are hopeless. I'm particularly annoyed by Heseltine. What does he have against female PMs?
The Alan Clark quote about having to buy his own furniture is the best vignette of Hezza.
I'd love to nod knowingly, but I think you may have to explain. (Don't get the quote)
Actually no. Parliamentary sovereignty has never extended into Treaty making which is rightly the purview of the Executive
And Executive privilege does not extend into lawmaking, which Brexit is.
There is a vote triggering Article 50 which is right. Parliament is now overreaching by trying to tie the executive's hands
Parliament is sovereign not the executive. It really doesn't get much simpler than that.
Parliament doesn't negotiate treaties.
Parliament may do as it pleases and should it wish instruct the government as it sees fit.
That's why referendums have rightly been called “a device of dictators and demagogues” since they seek to bypass constitutional government.
Funny, Switzerland is not renowned as a land of dictators and demagogues. It strikes me that the only people who object to referendums are those who don't like people to have the chance to have their say.
500 years of peace, and all they've been able to come up with is the cuckoo clock ...
Really ?
One or two Nobel laureates might disagree.
-snip-
I'm pretty sure ThomasNashe was quoting a film.
Well, he was actually quoting a charismatic but highly deceitful criminal. In a film. I'm a huge fan of Carol Reeed, but it's a less than convincing argument against the Swiss.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
This is Britain, not Northern Ireland, we generally don't shoot our politicians, Spencer Percival and Jo Cox apart.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
The problem the Lord's has is that they are neither elected nor electable. I don't mind at all the notion of an unelected upper house that serve as some sort of guardians of the nation, however the people who are actually there are hopeless. I'm particularly annoyed by Heseltine. What does he have against female PMs?
The Alan Clark quote about having to buy his own furniture is the best vignette of Hezza.
I'd love to nod knowingly, but I think you may have to explain. (Don't get the quote)
Why do Remoaners go on about anxious, nervy Leavers, full of fury and worry, at the same time as they openly hatch plans to try and thwart Brexit?
It's like convicted rapists complaining about "unfriendly" women who nervously cross the road whenever the rapists walk behind them, at night, in a black balaclava with RAPIST written on the wool.
These are the dimbos who sprang out of bed on 24/6/2016 chanting "the real fightback starts now". You can't expect much insight from them.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
This is Britain, not Northern Ireland, we generally don't shoot our politicians, Spencer Percival and Jo Cox apart.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
"The prior approval of both Houses of Parliament shall also be required in relation to any decision by the Prime Minister that the United Kingdom shall leave the European Union without an agreement as to the applicable terms."
That decision is not in the purview of either the Government or Parliament. If we get to the end of the two year negotiating period and there is no deal then it is a decision of all 28 countries including the UK as to whether that negotiation continues or we leave. If any one of those countries decides they want us out then that is it. No matter what the Government or the Lords want we will be out.
It all depends on whether Article 50 is revocable or not - and that is not yet determined.
I know many religious Quitters are in denial about that because they think their victory may be snatched away from them. And it might.
Yep and there were have it. As far as the Remoaners are concerned this is not about getting a good Brexit deal but about stopping Brexit entirely. Your arrogance and dishonesty is breathtaking
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
The problem the Lord's has is that they are neither elected nor electable. I don't mind at all the notion of an unelected upper house that serve as some sort of guardians of the nation, however the people who are actually there are hopeless. I'm particularly annoyed by Heseltine. What does he have against female PMs?
The Alan Clark quote about having to buy his own furniture is the best vignette of Hezza.
I'd love to nod knowingly, but I think you may have to explain. (Don't get the quote)
Clark said he was the sort of person who had to buy his own family silver. A proper Lord (don't know who, JackW may be able to help?) said that was a bit rich coming from someone like Clark, whose dad had to buy his own castle. I think the anonymous peer comes out of it best.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
This is Britain, not Northern Ireland, we generally don't shoot our politicians, Spencer Percival and Jo Cox apart.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
usual racist crap
Im a multi culti brit and am taking the Asian approach
Ah Brexit. What a monumental pile of shit you are. So much bitterness, so much anger. What a woeful distraction from the real problems we face.
We are seeing how shallow, how fake and how empty the principles of many who wish to lead are, and how the powerful try to game the system and cut the people out.
I'm not sure we have many problems that are bigger.
Why do Remoaners go on about anxious, nervy Leavers, full of fury and worry, at the same time as they openly hatch plans to try and thwart Brexit?
It's like convicted rapists complaining about "unfriendly" women who nervously cross the road whenever the rapists walk behind them, at night, in a black balaclava with RAPIST written on the wool.
These are the dimbos who sprang out of bed on 24/6/2016 chanting "the real fightback starts now". You can't expect much insight from them.
23/6/2016 was night on which British Euroscepticism was diagnosed with a terminal illness called Brexit.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
I wouldn't bother with reform, just abolish it altogether.
Now that Nicolas Dupont-Aignan has received more than 500 nominations, he has brought a case before the Council of State, France's supreme administrative court, seeking to reverse his exclusion from TF1's first TV debate, to be held on 20 March.
I reckon he will win.
He previously complained to the Superior Council of Audiovisual (Conseil Supérieur de l'Audiovisuel, CSA), which ruled that TF1 should respect the equal rights of all candidates, blah blah, without saying they should invite them all to the debate. But that was just a taster, because the CSA didn't have the authority to order TF1 not to exclude Dupont-Aignan before it had. Unless I am mistaken, the Council of State does.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
This is Britain, not Northern Ireland, we generally don't shoot our politicians, Spencer Percival and Jo Cox apart.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
Enuff. TMay will win by a mile. All arguments will end.
Will they?
Williamglenn is like the Japanese warrior who, deep in some metaphorical web-jungle, will never admit the war is over.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
This is Britain, not Northern Ireland, we generally don't shoot our politicians, Spencer Percival and Jo Cox apart.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
We used to behead our politicians, though.
And our Kings too.
Singular, unless I've forgotten about some previous regicide.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
I wouldn't bother with reform, just abolish it altogether.
Are we adding house of lords reform to the list of the UK's woes that Brexit will cure?
Productivity, education, technical ability, north south divide it's quite a list.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
I think we're near that position, now. If we're gonna have some monumental constitutional clusterfuck, let's do it all in one go.
Let the Tories call an election and go to the people on
1. the PM deciding our Brexit negotiating position, end of 2. Massive Lords reform, and 3. A Royal Commission to decide on a new Federalised Britain, and the proper apportioning of powers between England, Scotland, Wales and NI, perhaps with an eye to a reformed Upper House reflecting our new Federal State
This is wartime stuff, it needs wartime government. Do it.
Enuff. TMay will win by a mile. All arguments will end.
Throw in a proposal for a once-in-a-generation Royal Commission on the NHS and care for the elderly, to take it out of the realm of being a political football. All political parties to have the ability to appoint commissioners. Job done.
Why do Remoaners go on about anxious, nervy Leavers, full of fury and worry, at the same time as they openly hatch plans to try and thwart Brexit?
It's like convicted rapists complaining about "unfriendly" women who nervously cross the road whenever the rapists walk behind them, at night, in a black balaclava with RAPIST written on the wool.
These are the dimbos who sprang out of bed on 24/6/2016 chanting "the real fightback starts now". You can't expect much insight from them.
23/6/2016 was night on which British Euroscepticism was diagnosed with a terminal illness called Brexit.
See. This just makes you sound mad. Totally totally mad.
I hope you're REALLY looking forward to your WG winnings, financial good news of today notwithstanding?
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
This is Britain, not Northern Ireland, we generally don't shoot our politicians, Spencer Percival and Jo Cox apart.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
usual racist crap
Im a multi culti brit and am taking the Asian approach
Asian politicans get shot regularly
Cameron as ever did bugger all but pratting about
Love you really! But I'm not keen on Asian political practices moving over here, thought I do remember us discussing it a while back that Northern Irish and Asian politics had a similarity.
Two of Brown's advisors on radio News at 5 who said Labour made a terrible mistake in 2008 not calling an election. They were advised they were so far ahead there was no pressure of time but out of nowhere came the financial crisis and then it was too late.
They reflected on how a Labour victory at that point would have stalled the Tory modernisation and would have lead to at least 2 more Labour victories. Cameron would never have been PM and the mess that's Brexit wouldn't have happened.
Rather sadly they said a day doesn't go by when they don't reflect on what should have been. They added that May could well be making the same mistake though in their view she should have called it six months ago
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
This is Britain, not Northern Ireland, we generally don't shoot our politicians, Spencer Percival and Jo Cox apart.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
We used to behead our politicians, though.
And our Kings too.
Singular, unless I've forgotten about some previous regicide.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
This is Britain, not Northern Ireland, we generally don't shoot our politicians, Spencer Percival and Jo Cox apart.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
We used to behead our politicians, though.
And our Kings too.
Singular, unless I've forgotten about some previous regicide.
These still a question mark over Richard II plus of course Edward II also.
Are we adding house of lords reform to the list of the UK's woes that Brexit will cure?
I think the problems of the House of Lords are incurable. It's essentially pointless, unrepresentative, and full of people the public have already rejected. It doesn't need fixing, it needs to be put to sleep.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
Enuff. TMay will win by a mile. All arguments will end.
Will they?
Williamglenn is like the Japanese warrior who, deep in some metaphorical web-jungle, will never admit the war is over.
No, I don't expect williamglenn to stop his ravings, but the rest of the country will, gladly or reluctantly, accept the huge mandate TMay will get, and then a new government can crack on.
But, if she wants to go another way, I know a few PBTories who would happily take the ermine.....
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
This is Britain, not Northern Ireland, we generally don't shoot our politicians, Spencer Percival and Jo Cox apart.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
We used to behead our politicians, though.
And our Kings too.
Singular, unless I've forgotten about some previous regicide.
These still a question mark over Richard II plus of course Edward II also.
Those sound more like murders rather than judicial killings.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
This is Britain, not Northern Ireland, we generally don't shoot our politicians, Spencer Percival and Jo Cox apart.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
We used to behead our politicians, though.
And our Kings too.
Singular, unless I've forgotten about some previous regicide.
These still a question mark over Richard II plus of course Edward II also.
Those sound more like murders rather than judicial killings.
Does this not make a snap election significantly more likely ? A lot easier for remainer tories to rebel on this than the A50 vote ?
Maybe Theresa May will see how the Tories do at the local elections before deciding whether to hold an election this year as Mrs Thatcher did in the 1980s.
Post May 4th the earliest election date would be June 15th - and that assumes Corbyn going along with it. More likely now that he will not do that, which would mean no election before June 29th or July 6th. Perhaps too far into Summer holiday period by then!
Are we adding house of lords reform to the list of the UK's woes that Brexit will cure?
I think the problems of the House of Lords are incurable. It's essentially pointless, unrepresentative, and full of people the public have already rejected. It doesn't need fixing, it needs to be put to sleep.
Too harsh. It's also a repository of a huge amount of independent wisdom.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
I wouldn't bother with reform, just abolish it altogether.
Are we adding house of lords reform to the list of the UK's woes that Brexit will cure?
Productivity, education, technical ability, north south divide it's quite a list.
Nations do have moments when everything suddenly has to get sorted at once. Like families who decide to have the one big unbelieveable let-it-all-out argument on Boxing Day, where every grievance and resentment emerges, a bust-up which is horribly traumatic, and involves everyone, and many things are smashed, and someone ends up in hospital with a severed tendon - but in the end turns out to be deeply therapeutic and positive.
And next Christmas is very jolly.
Or decide to have a baby to save the marriage. Which doesn't.
Two of Brown's advisors on radio News at 5 who said Labour made a terrible mistake in 2008 not calling an election. They were advised they were so far ahead there was no pressure of time but out of nowhere came the financial crisis and then it was too late.
They reflected on how a Labour victory at that point would have stalled the Tory modernisation and would have lead to at least 2 more Labour victories. Cameron would never have been PM and the mess that's Brexit wouldn't have happened.
Rather sadly they said a day doesn't go by when they don't reflect on what should have been. They added that May could well be making the same mistake though in their view she should have called it six months ago
I don't buy the two more Labour victories at all. If Labour had won in 2007/8, it would have been heavily defeated in 2012/13. It was tired.
The only difference would be that the coalition would not have happened. The Lib Dems would not have been destroyed and Cameron would not have had to promise a referendum.
Two of Brown's advisors on radio News at 5 who said Labour made a terrible mistake in 2008 not calling an election. They were advised they were so far ahead there was no pressure of time but out of nowhere came the financial crisis and then it was too late.
They reflected on how a Labour victory at that point would have stalled the Tory modernisation and would have lead to at least 2 more Labour victories. Cameron would never have been PM and the mess that's Brexit wouldn't have happened.
Rather sadly they said a day doesn't go by when they don't reflect on what should have been. They added that May could well be making the same mistake though in their view she should have called it six months ago
Perhaps you mean 2007. I think Labour's majority would have been cut from 64, and Brown would have been cursed by his own side.
Are we adding house of lords reform to the list of the UK's woes that Brexit will cure?
I think the problems of the House of Lords are incurable. It's essentially pointless, unrepresentative, and full of people the public have already rejected. It doesn't need fixing, it needs to be put to sleep.
Too harsh. It's also a repository of a huge amount of independent wisdom.
We can surely consult the wise when necessary without giving them legislative powers.
Two of Brown's advisors on radio News at 5 who said Labour made a terrible mistake in 2008 not calling an election. They were advised they were so far ahead there was no pressure of time but out of nowhere came the financial crisis and then it was too late.
They reflected on how a Labour victory at that point would have stalled the Tory modernisation and would have lead to at least 2 more Labour victories. Cameron would never have been PM and the mess that's Brexit wouldn't have happened.
Rather sadly they said a day doesn't go by when they don't reflect on what should have been. They added that May could well be making the same mistake though in their view she should have called it six months ago
How could May have called an election with the FTPA in place and a promise to enact A50 as a priority?
At least this amendment makes sense, compared at least with the first vote. It makes sense that Parliament has some control over Brexit to avoid a situation where the whole, massive, once in a generation question of what our future relationship with Europe is devolved entirely to an unelected prime minister and her executive on the basis of a single referendum vote.
This idea that this whole thing is like a commercial relationship whereby any accountability and discussion is detrimental to our negotiating position doesn't stand up to scrutiny. We simply don't know what people like Liam Fox are really up to and - in any case - they may not be up to the job. In Boris Johnson's case he has proved time and time again that he isn't.
The beauty of this is that if it goes back to the people in a general election and the Brexiteers scream 'sabotage' and foam at the mouth at the sight of any remainers they will look like idiots when people scrutinise the detail of what is actually going on. It is probably the last stand of the remainers, we will have to wait and see if it works.
Are we adding house of lords reform to the list of the UK's woes that Brexit will cure?
I think the problems of the House of Lords are incurable. It's essentially pointless, unrepresentative, and full of people the public have already rejected. It doesn't need fixing, it needs to be put to sleep.
Too harsh. It's also a repository of a huge amount of independent wisdom.
My problem is not that the Lords wanted Parliament to have a say in the settlement. I actually agree with that. It is that the 4th clause is incoherent in that it is trying to legislate something that is completely out of the hands of either the Government or Parliament and in doing so is making a hard Brexit all the more likely. These are supposed to be bright people but they are behaving like school children.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
This is Britain, not Northern Ireland, we generally don't shoot our politicians, Spencer Percival and Jo Cox apart.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
usual racist crap
Im a multi culti brit and am taking the Asian approach
Asian politicans get shot regularly
Cameron as ever did bugger all but pratting about
Love you really! But I'm not keen on Asian political practices moving over here, thought I do remember us discussing it a while back that Northern Irish and Asian politics had a similarity.
Pah Mr Eagles it;s a bad day if I feel offended by you
but really Cameron should have pushed through HoL reform
we need a second house to protect us from psychopaths like Blair riding roughshod over the rest of us
Cameron could have reformed the house in his own image and left himself a lasting legacy ( lets face it once done no one will do it for another century ) instead he taxed pasties
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
I think we're near that position, now. If we're gonna have some monumental constitutional clusterfuck, let's do it all in one go.
Let the Tories call an election and go to the people on
1. the PM deciding our Brexit negotiating position, end of 2. Massive Lords reform, and 3. A Royal Commission to decide on a new Federalised Britain, and the proper apportioning of powers between England, Scotland, Wales and NI, perhaps with an eye to a reformed Upper House reflecting our new Federal State
This is wartime stuff, it needs wartime government. Do it.
Enuff. TMay will win by a mile. All arguments will end.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
The problem the Lord's has is that they are neither elected nor electable. I don't mind at all the notion of an unelected upper house that serve as some sort of guardians of the nation, however the people who are actually there are hopeless. I'm particularly annoyed by Heseltine. What does he have against female PMs?
The Alan Clark quote about having to buy his own furniture is the best vignette of Hezza.
I'd love to nod knowingly, but I think you may have to explain. (Don't get the quote)
An arriviste....
Clark inherited his furniture.
Wasn't it a Michael Jopling comment cited by Clark?
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
I think we're near that position, now. If we're gonna have some monumental constitutional clusterfuck, let's do it all in one go.
Let the Tories call an election and go to the people on
1. the PM deciding our Brexit negotiating position, end of 2. Massive Lords reform, and 3. A Royal Commission to decide on a new Federalised Britain, and the proper apportioning of powers between England, Scotland, Wales and NI, perhaps with an eye to a reformed Upper House reflecting our new Federal State
This is wartime stuff, it needs wartime government. Do it.
Enuff. TMay will win by a mile. All arguments will end.
Corbyn will seek to block an election.
The Labour Party as a whole would be guaranteed to back it then!
"The prior approval of both Houses of Parliament shall also be required in relation to any decision by the Prime Minister that the United Kingdom shall leave the European Union without an agreement as to the applicable terms."
That decision is not in the purview of either the Government or Parliament. If we get to the end of the two year negotiating period and there is no deal then it is a decision of all 28 countries including the UK as to whether that negotiation continues or we leave. If any one of those countries decides they want us out then that is it. No matter what the Government or the Lords want we will be out.
It all depends on whether Article 50 is revocable or not - and that is not yet determined.
I know many religious Quitters are in denial about that because they think their victory may be snatched away from them. And it might.
Yep and there were have it. As far as the Remoaners are concerned this is not about getting a good Brexit deal but about stopping Brexit entirely. Your arrogance and dishonesty is breathtaking
It is not arrogance or dishonesty. I am being honest in my desire to persuade the voters that they have made a grievous error in voting for Brexit and in keeping open the option for them to change their minds. It would be arrogant to deny that to them. So the boot is on the other foot.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
This is Britain, not Northern Ireland, we generally don't shoot our politicians, Spencer Percival and Jo Cox apart.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
usual racist crap
Im a multi culti brit and am taking the Asian approach
Asian politicans get shot regularly
Cameron as ever did bugger all but pratting about
Love you really! But I'm not keen on Asian political practices moving over here, thought I do remember us discussing it a while back that Northern Irish and Asian politics had a similarity.
Pah Mr Eagles it;s a bad day if I feel offended by you
but really Cameron should have pushed through HoL reform
we need a second house to protect us from psychopaths like Blair riding roughshod over the rest of us
Cameron could have reformed the house in his own image and left himself a lasting legacy ( lets face it once done no one will do it for another century ) instead he taxed pasties
waste of 5 years
I shall exile myself to Conhome for the rest of the evening as penance.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
I think we're near that position, now. If we're gonna have some monumental constitutional clusterfuck, let's do it all in one go.
Let the Tories call an election and go to the people on
1. the PM deciding our Brexit negotiating position, end of 2. Massive Lords reform, and 3. A Royal Commission to decide on a new Federalised Britain, and the proper apportioning of powers between England, Scotland, Wales and NI, perhaps with an eye to a reformed Upper House reflecting our new Federal State
This is wartime stuff, it needs wartime government. Do it.
Enuff. TMay will win by a mile. All arguments will end.
Corbyn will seek to block an election.
The Labour Party as a whole would be guaranteed to back it then!
Two of Brown's advisors on radio News at 5 who said Labour made a terrible mistake in 2008 not calling an election. They were advised they were so far ahead there was no pressure of time but out of nowhere came the financial crisis and then it was too late.
They reflected on how a Labour victory at that point would have stalled the Tory modernisation and would have lead to at least 2 more Labour victories. Cameron would never have been PM and the mess that's Brexit wouldn't have happened.
Rather sadly they said a day doesn't go by when they don't reflect on what should have been. They added that May could well be making the same mistake though in their view she should have called it six months ago
Except for a few faults with that logic.
1: "The election that never was" was in 2007, not 2008. 2: The election was scrapped following polling after a success Tory Conference and a News of the World marginals poll showing the Tories in the lead. 3: The Tories were well in the lead long before the financial crisis came to a head in late 2008.
Two of Brown's advisors on radio News at 5 who said Labour made a terrible mistake in 2008 not calling an election. They were advised they were so far ahead there was no pressure of time but out of nowhere came the financial crisis and then it was too late.
They reflected on how a Labour victory at that point would have stalled the Tory modernisation and would have lead to at least 2 more Labour victories. Cameron would never have been PM and the mess that's Brexit wouldn't have happened.
Rather sadly they said a day doesn't go by when they don't reflect on what should have been. They added that May could well be making the same mistake though in their view she should have called it six months ago
I don't buy the two more Labour victories at all. If Labour had won in 2007/8, it would have been heavily defeated in 2012/13. It was tired.
The only difference would be that the coalition would not have happened. The Lib Dems would not have been destroyed and Cameron would not have had to promise a referendum.
Their view was that after losing in 2007/8 the Tories would have been wracked by in-fighting and Cameron's modernisation would have stalled leading to a second victory in 12/13. After about 15 mins...
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
This is Britain, not Northern Ireland, we generally don't shoot our politicians, Spencer Percival and Jo Cox apart.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
Who was that Northern Irish (Unionist) politician who told a Guardian journalist to 'fuck off out of it if you can't observe the niceties'? (He had failed to stand for the National Anthem.)
By the way, you forget Frederick Cavendish and Henry Wilson.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
I think we're near that position, now. If we're gonna have some monumental constitutional clusterfuck, let's do it all in one go.
Let the Tories call an election and go to the people on
1. the PM deciding our Brexit negotiating position, end of 2. Massive Lords reform, and 3. A Royal Commission to decide on a new Federalised Britain, and the proper apportioning of powers between England, Scotland, Wales and NI, perhaps with an eye to a reformed Upper House reflecting our new Federal State
This is wartime stuff, it needs wartime government. Do it.
Enuff. TMay will win by a mile. All arguments will end.
Corbyn will seek to block an election.
The Labour Party as a whole would be guaranteed to back it then!
I rather doubt it somehow!
An easy chance to stick two fingers up at Corbyn and get rid of him while over half still stand a chance of keeping their seats? What's not to like?
I cannot understand the lib dems thinking. They have their amendment but tonight in the HOL they are actually going to attempt to wreck the bill altogether They will be out voted but this will receive widescale condemnation and only add to the HOL demise.
The Government needs to bring forward legislation to abolish the HOL and replace it with an amending body elected on some form of PR and with no right to ping pong bills if their amendments are rejected by the Government of the day, whoever they are
Are we adding house of lords reform to the list of the UK's woes that Brexit will cure?
I think the problems of the House of Lords are incurable. It's essentially pointless, unrepresentative, and full of people the public have already rejected. It doesn't need fixing, it needs to be put to sleep.
Too harsh. It's also a repository of a huge amount of independent wisdom.
My problem is not that the Lords wanted Parliament to have a say in the settlement. I actually agree with that. It is that the 4th clause is incoherent in that it is trying to legislate something that is completely out of the hands of either the Government or Parliament and in doing so is making a hard Brexit all the more likely. These are supposed to be bright people but they are behaving like school children.
The logic is there - the status of the British people will change so dramatically at the end of the two year period (either a deal or no deal) that it is something that Parliament must vote on.
It fails in practicality for the reasons that we mentioned upthread and you note also now: parliament has no jurisdiction or influence over the EU27 which is where any resolution would lie.
Two of Brown's advisors on radio News at 5 who said Labour made a terrible mistake in 2008 not calling an election. They were advised they were so far ahead there was no pressure of time but out of nowhere came the financial crisis and then it was too late.
They reflected on how a Labour victory at that point would have stalled the Tory modernisation and would have lead to at least 2 more Labour victories. Cameron would never have been PM and the mess that's Brexit wouldn't have happened.
Rather sadly they said a day doesn't go by when they don't reflect on what should have been. They added that May could well be making the same mistake though in their view she should have called it six months ago
I don't buy the two more Labour victories at all. If Labour had won in 2007/8, it would have been heavily defeated in 2012/13. It was tired.
The only difference would be that the coalition would not have happened. The Lib Dems would not have been destroyed and Cameron would not have had to promise a referendum.
Their view was that after losing in 2007/8 the Tories would have been wracked by in-fighting and Cameron's modernisation would have stalled leading to a second victory in 12/13.
Just as Labour was wracked by in-fighting after the defeat in 1992?
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
I wouldn't bother with reform, just abolish it altogether.
Are we adding house of lords reform to the list of the UK's woes that Brexit will cure?
Productivity, education, technical ability, north south divide it's quite a list.
Nations do have moments when everything suddenly has to get sorted at once. Like families who decide to have the one big unbelieveable let-it-all-out argument on Boxing Day, where every grievance and resentment emerges, a bust-up which is horribly traumatic, and involves everyone, and many things are smashed, and someone ends up in hospital with a severed tendon - but in the end turns out to be deeply therapeutic and positive.
If TMay can't force her will on the Commons and Lords, she HAS to go to the people for a GE, or her entire Brexit negotiating position is, to put it politely as possible, hate-fucked fifty-eight ways.
Next week will be interesting.
We could see the Lords voting for their own abolition, as the Commons forces the prime minister to seek a new mandate from the people, or..... the Leaver Commons will reluctantly demand, and the Remainer Lords will reluctantly yield.
I suspect the latter.
shoot the fuckers, theyre well past their sell by date
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
I wouldn't bother with reform, just abolish it altogether.
Are we adding house of lords reform to the list of the UK's woes that Brexit will cure?
Productivity, education, technical ability, north south divide it's quite a list.
Nations do have moments when everything suddenly has to get sorted at once. Like families who decide to have the one big unbelieveable let-it-all-out argument on Boxing Day, where every grievance and resentment emerges, a bust-up which is horribly traumatic, and involves everyone, and many things are smashed, and someone ends up in hospital with a severed tendon - but in the end turns out to be deeply therapeutic and positive.
And next Christmas is very jolly.
Or decide to have a baby to save the marriage. Which doesn't.
As an intelligent, reasonably honest Remainer, surely you can see that TMay cannot tolerate a parliamentary veto on her Brexit deal, which guarantees the EU will give us the worst deal possible, in the hope we fold and Remain?
It's unsustainable. Clearly.
So she either has to win next week, in both Houses, or she goes to the people. I can't see any other way forward.
We can't remain. The logic of the bill is supposedly that notification of A50 will lapse if there is a bad deal or no deal that parliament doesn't wish to inflict upon the British public. But no one has asked the EU27 if they are happy for the notice of A50 to lapse. It is absurd. But equally absurd is not to allow parliament a say on this most important of changes to the rights and obligations of UK citizens.
"The prior approval of both Houses of Parliament shall also be required in relation to any decision by the Prime Minister that the United Kingdom shall leave the European Union without an agreement as to the applicable terms."
That decision is not in the purview of either the Government or Parliament. If we get to the end of the two year negotiating period and there is no deal then it is a decision of all 28 countries including the UK as to whether that negotiation continues or we leave. If any one of those countries decides they want us out then that is it. No matter what the Government or the Lords want we will be out.
It all depends on whether Article 50 is revocable or not - and that is not yet determined.
I know many religious Quitters are in denial about that because they think their victory may be snatched away from them. And it might.
Yep and there were have it. As far as the Remoaners are concerned this is not about getting a good Brexit deal but about stopping Brexit entirely. Your arrogance and dishonesty is breathtaking
It is not arrogance or dishonesty. I am being honest in my desire to persuade the voters that they have made a grievous error in voting for Brexit and in keeping open the option for them to change their minds. It would be arrogant to deny that to them. So the boot is on the other foot.
We can never go back. It can never be the same. We've told them what we think of them. The things that have been said can never be unsaid.
They could never trust us again. It's over. They always suspected it would be. It was always a loveless marriage. One of convenience, not commitment. We both knew it.
Comments
It is the opposite of the years after the credit crunch when the economy was poor but because inflation was close to zero or negative and interest rates fell to its lowest in 300 years, personal disposable income actually rose.
By September this year, the rate of inflation will catch up with wage rates.
https://twitter.com/telegraphnews/status/839196456820957185
One or two Nobel laureates might disagree.
Kurt Wüthrich, Chemistry, 2002
Médecins Sans Frontières, Peace, 1999
Rolf M. Zinkernagel, Physiology or Medicine, 1996
Edmond H. Fischer, born in China, Physiology or Medicine, 1992
Richard R. Ernst, Chemistry, 1991
Karl Alexander Müller, Physics, 1987
Heinrich Rohrer, Physics, 1986
Georges J. F. Köhler, born in Germany (worked in Switzerland for 1976 to 1984), Physiology or Medicine, 1984
Werner Arber, Physiology or Medicine, 1978
Vladimir Prelog, born in then Austria-Hungary, now Bosnia-Herzegovina, Chemistry, 1975
Daniel Bovet, Physiology or Medicine, 1957
Felix Bloch, Physics, 1952
Tadeus Reichstein, Physiology or Medicine, 1950
Walter Rudolf Hess, Physiology or Medicine, 1949
Paul Hermann Müller, Physiology or Medicine, 1948
Hermann Hesse, born in Germany, Literature, 1946
Leopold Ružička, born in then Austria-Hungary, now Croatia, Chemistry, 1939
Paul Karrer, Chemistry, 1937
Albert Einstein, born in Germany, Physics, 1921
Charles Édouard Guillaume, Physics, 1920
Carl Spitteler, Literature, 1919
Alfred Werner, Chemistry, 1913
Theodor Kocher, Physiology or Medicine, 1909
Élie Ducommun, Peace, 1902
Charles Albert Gobat, Peace, 1902
Henry Dunant, Peace, 1901
Such as gangster Meyer Lansky - in there in Switzerland from practically before the ink was dry on the Swiss Banking Act of 1934.
You mean the Waterloo where we stuffed the French and redrew the map of Europe.
Yep, that one.
Happy for Brexit to be another Waterloo.
There have before been many Commons votes at a higher turnout than 634 MPs.
So Sunil's oft-stated fact about the Lords being larger than the Commons isn't meaningfully accurate.
I know many religious Quitters are in denial about that because they think their victory may be snatched away from them. And it might.
We didn't give Les Grenouilles the hiding of a lifetime alone, we part of a pan-European alliance.
The Seventh Coalition = The precursor to the EU.
Let me guess, you read history at Cowley Tech?
Currency related inflation will start to drop out of the numbers by the end of the year unless everyone else starts raising interest rates and we don't.
Incidentally, I see that Fen Poly's students are now going to be judged on their first year. Academically judged, I mean.
Labour - House of Lords scrapped and replaced
SNP - House of Lords scrapped and replaced
Lib Dems - House of Lords scrapped and replaced
Greens - House of Lords scrapped and replaced
Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg has promised to drag Prime Minister David Cameron "kicking and screaming" to agree to Lords reform
Pretend to agree with their constituents for the votes or tell the truth to try and keep us inside the EU?
May should reform the house and grasp the nettle poncy boots wouldnt
I'm a huge fan of Carol Reeed, but it's a less than convincing argument against the Swiss.
If you can't be civilised, bog off (boom boom)
Dave tried to reform the Lords, but Tory backbenches put the kibosh on it.
Clark inherited his furniture.
Am I alone?
Im a multi culti brit and am taking the Asian approach
Asian politicans get shot regularly
Cameron as ever did bugger all but pratting about
I'm not sure we have many problems that are bigger.
I reckon he will win.
He previously complained to the Superior Council of Audiovisual (Conseil Supérieur de l'Audiovisuel, CSA), which ruled that TF1 should respect the equal rights of all candidates, blah blah, without saying they should invite them all to the debate. But that was just a taster, because the CSA didn't have the authority to order TF1 not to exclude Dupont-Aignan before it had. Unless I am mistaken, the Council of State does.
Williamglenn is like the Japanese warrior who, deep in some metaphorical web-jungle, will never admit the war is over.
Productivity, education, technical ability, north south divide it's quite a list.
They reflected on how a Labour victory at that point would have stalled the Tory modernisation and would have lead to at least 2 more Labour victories. Cameron would never have been PM and the mess that's Brexit wouldn't have happened.
Rather sadly they said a day doesn't go by when they don't reflect on what should have been. They added that May could well be making the same mistake though in their view she should have called it six months ago
Henry VIII had a few executed.
The only difference would be that the coalition would not have happened. The Lib Dems would not have been destroyed and Cameron would not have had to promise a referendum.
How could May have called an election with the FTPA in place and a promise to enact A50 as a priority?
It makes sense that Parliament has some control over Brexit to avoid a situation where the whole, massive, once in a generation question of what our future relationship with Europe is devolved entirely to an unelected prime minister and her executive on the basis of a single referendum vote.
This idea that this whole thing is like a commercial relationship whereby any accountability and discussion is detrimental to our negotiating position doesn't stand up to scrutiny. We simply don't know what people like Liam Fox are really up to and - in any case - they may not be up to the job. In Boris Johnson's case he has proved time and time again that he isn't.
The beauty of this is that if it goes back to the people in a general election and the Brexiteers scream 'sabotage' and foam at the mouth at the sight of any remainers they will look like idiots when people scrutinise the detail of what is actually going on.
It is probably the last stand of the remainers, we will have to wait and see if it works.
but really Cameron should have pushed through HoL reform
we need a second house to protect us from psychopaths like Blair riding roughshod over the rest of us
Cameron could have reformed the house in his own image and left himself a lasting legacy ( lets face it once done no one will do it for another century ) instead he taxed pasties
waste of 5 years
(Who was new money anyway)
https://socialistworker.co.uk/art/44221/The+SWP,+TUSC+and+Labour+how+do+we+take+on+the+Tories
My heart bleeds.
1: "The election that never was" was in 2007, not 2008.
2: The election was scrapped following polling after a success Tory Conference and a News of the World marginals poll showing the Tories in the lead.
3: The Tories were well in the lead long before the financial crisis came to a head in late 2008.
Here is an article summarising it in hindsight in June 2008, months before the collapse of Lehman: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/jun/26/gordonbrown.labour
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08gwfmy
By the way, you forget Frederick Cavendish and Henry Wilson.
The Government needs to bring forward legislation to abolish the HOL and replace it with an amending body elected on some form of PR and with no right to ping pong bills if their amendments are rejected by the Government of the day, whoever they are
It fails in practicality for the reasons that we mentioned upthread and you note also now: parliament has no jurisdiction or influence over the EU27 which is where any resolution would lie.
They could never trust us again. It's over. They always suspected it would be. It was always a loveless marriage. One of convenience, not commitment. We both knew it.