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  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,187
    edited February 2017

    Brom said:

    May has no need to allow another indyref during her tenure. The wait should be at least 10 years post 2014 and probably longer.

    Nicola Sturgeon could hold her own IndyRef - a giant opinion poll.

    Given that Parliament is taking the UK out of the EU on an advisory referendum that lacks legal force, how could such a Scottish poll be denied? Brexit is happening purely on moral grounds as "it would be wrong to frustrate the will of the people"

    If the SNP were returned to power having made a specific commitment to holding an independence referendum it would be very hard for the UK government to say no.

    Given the SNP's entire platform is that another referendum is necessary because the UK is leaving the single market the UK government should only guarantee such a referendum if the SNP fights it on a platform of full Scottish membership of the single market and full free movement to Scotland with the proviso that the UK government will then impose border controls at Berwick and customs duties on all Scottish goods exported to the UK
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    TOPPING said:

    There's James Hewitt on the front bench again.

    That's Ben Gummer, he dodged a bullet, it was his sister that ended up eating that burger at the height of the BSE crisis.
    John Selwyn is a man of principle, I'm sure he force-fed raw spinal cord to all his kids in the privacy of his own home.
    So, dining just like the French then?
    With napkins over their heads for reasons of propriety no doubt.
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    Where's JohnO when you need him.

    Poor Theresa, losing PMQs to Corbyn is as shameful as losing a war to France.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Brom said:

    May has no need to allow another indyref during her tenure. The wait should be at least 10 years post 2014 and probably longer.

    Nicola Sturgeon could hold her own IndyRef - a giant opinion poll.

    Given that Parliament is taking the UK out of the EU on an advisory referendum that lacks legal force, how could such a Scottish poll be denied? Brexit is happening purely on moral grounds as "it would be wrong to frustrate the will of the people"

    If the SNP were returned to power having made a specific commitment to holding an independence referendum it would be very hard for the UK government to say no.

    Don't agree. The UK government can simply say that electorate spoke very clearly on 85% turnout in September 2014.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,005

    tlg86 said:

    TOPPING said:

    There's James Hewitt on the front bench again.

    That's Ben Gummer, he dodged a bullet, it was his sister that ended up eating that burger at the height of the BSE crisis.
    She survived, didn't she? :D
    She did, but Ben Gummer's political career would have been haunted by that clip.
    Troughs £300 a day for showing up at the Lords now doesn't he ?
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Catching up on the thread. What is this stuff about Jezza quitting? There's no chance currently as the Left won't let him – the second he quits, they lose control of the party as left wing candidates won't be able to get the requisite number of nominations. The PLP won't make the same mistake twice.

    Unless there is an up-front deal to get a 'better' lefty on the ballot

    (Like I've been advocating for a year and a half!)
    The only figure who fits that bill is Clive Lewis. Given that the two men have fallen out it doesn't look likely. Nandy is an outside option, but she qmunder him so hard to envisage.
    Lewis backs Trident, Nandy backed Owen Smith. Why would current Labour members vote for them now?

    Corbyn backed Brexit. Why would current Labour members vote for him now?
  • Options
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    TOPPING said:

    There's James Hewitt on the front bench again.

    That's Ben Gummer, he dodged a bullet, it was his sister that ended up eating that burger at the height of the BSE crisis.
    She survived, didn't she? :D
    She did, but Ben Gummer's political career would have been haunted by that clip.
    Troughs £300 a day for showing up at the Lords now doesn't he ?
    All I know is that he's a member of the Lords.
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    F1: liked this, from the BBC gossip column:
    "Drivers' conservative approach to last year's inaugural grand prix in Baku made for an unexciting race, says the event's promoter."
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,187

    Macron edging towards first place in round one.

    https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/829078857022070784

    Today's poll has Le Pen 25% Macron 22% Fillon 20% so Fillon closer to Macron than Macron to Le Pen
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,233

    TOPPING said:

    There's James Hewitt on the front bench again.

    That's Ben Gummer, he dodged a bullet, it was his sister that ended up eating that burger at the height of the BSE crisis.
    John Selwyn is a man of principle, I'm sure he force-fed raw spinal cord to all his kids in the privacy of his own home.
    So, dining just like the French then?
    Calves brains are a delicacy in Italy and utterly delicious. I love it. As the meat is so white it was often given to children, the sick, the old. You need a sharp sauce to go with it. A pity it is so hard to find now though a few years ago I did eat it in a restaurant in Baker Street.

    And osso buco has bone marrow, which is also scrumptious.

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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,015

    Where's JohnO when you need him.

    Poor Theresa, losing PMQs to Corbyn is as shameful as losing a war to France.

    PB Tories 4 Corbyn, rejoice!
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,753
    Jobabob said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Catching up on the thread. What is this stuff about Jezza quitting? There's no chance currently as the Left won't let him – the second he quits, they lose control of the party as left wing candidates won't be able to get the requisite number of nominations. The PLP won't make the same mistake twice.

    Unless there is an up-front deal to get a 'better' lefty on the ballot

    (Like I've been advocating for a year and a half!)
    The only figure who fits that bill is Clive Lewis. Given that the two men have fallen out it doesn't look likely. Nandy is an outside option, but she qmunder him so hard to envisage.
    Lewis backs Trident, Nandy backed Owen Smith. Why would current Labour members vote for them now?

    Corbyn backed Brexit. Why would current Labour members vote for him now?
    Are you trying to persuade me to vote for Jezza?
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    Theresa May did spank Patrick Grady into the next century there.

    Impressive.
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    O/T

    Thank God you only crystallise losses when you sell. GSK results out today
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,187
    Jobabob said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Catching up on the thread. What is this stuff about Jezza quitting? There's no chance currently as the Left won't let him – the second he quits, they lose control of the party as left wing candidates won't be able to get the requisite number of nominations. The PLP won't make the same mistake twice.

    Unless there is an up-front deal to get a 'better' lefty on the ballot

    (Like I've been advocating for a year and a half!)
    The only figure who fits that bill is Clive Lewis. Given that the two men have fallen out it doesn't look likely. Nandy is an outside option, but she qmunder him so hard to envisage.
    Lewis backs Trident, Nandy backed Owen Smith. Why would current Labour members vote for them now?

    Corbyn backed Brexit. Why would current Labour members vote for him now?
    Labour members knew that in September but still backed Corbyn by over 60% against the Europhile Owen Smith
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    Miss Cyclefree, you aren't secretly a hyena, are you?

    They love bone marrow. I think. Not sure where I heard that (suspect Attenborough).
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Jobabob said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Catching up on the thread. What is this stuff about Jezza quitting? There's no chance currently as the Left won't let him – the second he quits, they lose control of the party as left wing candidates won't be able to get the requisite number of nominations. The PLP won't make the same mistake twice.

    Unless there is an up-front deal to get a 'better' lefty on the ballot

    (Like I've been advocating for a year and a half!)
    The only figure who fits that bill is Clive Lewis. Given that the two men have fallen out it doesn't look likely. Nandy is an outside option, but she qmunder him so hard to envisage.
    Lewis backs Trident, Nandy backed Owen Smith. Why would current Labour members vote for them now?

    Corbyn backed Brexit. Why would current Labour members vote for him now?
    No he didn't. Well, not officially, anyway.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2017
    Excellent article, but why should we hold some countries to lower standards than others? (I've deliberately changed the word higher to lower).
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    TOPPING said:

    There's James Hewitt on the front bench again.

    That's Ben Gummer, he dodged a bullet, it was his sister that ended up eating that burger at the height of the BSE crisis.
    Nah, that sounds like a debauched initiation ceremony at Oxford University.

    John Selwyn Gummer went to Selwyn College, Cambridge.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,005
    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Catching up on the thread. What is this stuff about Jezza quitting? There's no chance currently as the Left won't let him – the second he quits, they lose control of the party as left wing candidates won't be able to get the requisite number of nominations. The PLP won't make the same mistake twice.

    Unless there is an up-front deal to get a 'better' lefty on the ballot

    (Like I've been advocating for a year and a half!)
    The only figure who fits that bill is Clive Lewis. Given that the two men have fallen out it doesn't look likely. Nandy is an outside option, but she qmunder him so hard to envisage.
    Lewis backs Trident, Nandy backed Owen Smith. Why would current Labour members vote for them now?

    Corbyn backed Brexit. Why would current Labour members vote for him now?
    Labour members knew that in September but still backed Corbyn by over 60% against the Europhile Owen Smith
    Yes, but Owen Smith was the worst candidate I've ever seen in my lifetime. Anywhere.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    Jobabob said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Catching up on the thread. What is this stuff about Jezza quitting? There's no chance currently as the Left won't let him – the second he quits, they lose control of the party as left wing candidates won't be able to get the requisite number of nominations. The PLP won't make the same mistake twice.

    Unless there is an up-front deal to get a 'better' lefty on the ballot

    (Like I've been advocating for a year and a half!)
    The only figure who fits that bill is Clive Lewis. Given that the two men have fallen out it doesn't look likely. Nandy is an outside option, but she qmunder him so hard to envisage.
    Lewis backs Trident, Nandy backed Owen Smith. Why would current Labour members vote for them now?

    Corbyn backed Brexit. Why would current Labour members vote for him now?
    No he didn't. Well, not officially, anyway.
    I still have a sneaking suspicion that Corbyn voted for both Remain and Leave in the booth....spoiling his paper, but then able to say "Of course I voted for Remain...."
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,907
    Cyclefree said:

    Thanks to all for your comments/birthday wishes etc.

    And to darling Roger: I wrote those paragraphs for free. Even lawyers have a heart. :)

    Re civil rights in the US this PBS documentary is very well worth seeing - Eyes on the Prize - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092999/. It uses a lot of film from the time and is both shocking (in the violence it shows) and uplifting in showing how the campaigners kept on going.

    One of these days you'll write a header I agree with and a whole chapter wont be long enough. Until then Happy Birthday for yesterday!
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,054

    Mr. Meeks, half the Commons was staring in stony silence whilst half (the opposition) was applauding. If the House is divided then how can the Speaker claim to speak for all of it by siding with one half over the other?

    Mr. Blue, you're asking for a willing second class status for England. Scottish politicians can now vote on tax rates in both England and Scotland. That is not a defensible position.

    By my estimate, roughly 52% of the House of Commons supports the decision. The Speaker is implementing the will of the House of Commons. Those who are in the minority are losers who should suck it up.
    The Bercomplainers are never going to let it go.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Patrick Kidd ‏@patrick_kidd 24m24 minutes ago

    Extraordinary story in @PrivateEyeNews that Corbyn takes time off in lieu whenever he has to work on a Sunday, such appearing on Marr

    That's actually a good idea, people operate better with two days a week of time off to relax and chew things over.
    Leaders don't have that luxury. Stuff happens and the buck stops with them.

    (It would be possible for a leader to work with a much reduced workload if s/he had a very capable and united team under them, and clear and effective guidelines to work to. Labour has yet to convince on this point).
    I didn't say he shouldn't respond if shit blows up.
    Shit blows up all the time. Sure, he can - and should - schedule time off but the idea that he can take Monday afternoon off because he worked Sunday morning seems naive at best.
    I agree that party leaders have to be ready to respond to 'events' at short notice. At the same time I see no reason why they should feel obliged to comply with the demands of the Broadcasters just because the latter wish to put on a programme. Corbyn - and any other leader - would be perfectly entitled to remind people that Harold Wilson, Ted Heath, Jim Callalaghan et al did not do Sunday morning interviews, and that he intends to adhere to their practice!
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2017
    O/T:

    Rolf Harris found not guilty of charges he was facing:
    http://news.sky.com/story/rolf-harris-cleared-of-three-sex-offences-10760266
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819

    I can see how the left might swoon over such crap but people generally are smarter than that. Corbyn has a terrific back story to appeal to the left but how are the polls going? Labour as a pretty far left organisation is going nowhere. It has to become more centrist. Even Corbyn seems to have an inkling about this but cannot stop himself from behaving like Dr Strangelove's hand.

    I'm sure Lewis would move to the centre. This is the other thing about him: He's the only person who can move to the centre and take the left with him.


    Any hint that he might do that and the membership would not vote for him.

    I suspect Labour is stuffed until the membership die off or leave.

    We are well passed peak-Corbyn, hence all the rumours. It's worth remembering that the 40% or so who voted against him last September were mainly long-term members, the ones least likely to leave. When he stands down, Corbyn will take a lot of keyboard members with him.

    My best guess right now is that the next leadership battle will be a relatively polite one between Lisa Nandy and Clive Lewis.

    The keyboard Corbynista have hit a blockage in their adulation: his lukewarm efforts on Brexit. Most are Remainers I would guess.

    Any general membership numbers from Labour recently? Other than the 8,000 who left last week over the 3-line whip.
    I think Brexit was the splitting moment, and it's when we really saw the Corbyn coalition starting to crumble. Corbyn drew his support primarily from true socialists/marxists (McDonnell) and from new joiner identity left types (Abbott personifies this). The two are very different on many issues, and even when they agree, the motivations will be different.

    Corbyn equivocated between the two, but he's a trot at heart, not an 'SJW'. He finally picked his side with the A50 whip, and I think we will see more and more splits within the Corbyn camp now until he is toppled by his 'own' side.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,233

    Miss Cyclefree, you aren't secretly a hyena, are you?

    They love bone marrow. I think. Not sure where I heard that (suspect Attenborough).

    Well, I laugh a lot. So maybe.

    In one of the early episodes of the Neil McGregor's "A History of the World in 100 Objects" he talks about a very early tool (found somewhere in Kenya) which was used to crush bones so that early humans could get at the bone marrow.



  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    Excellent article, but why exactly should we hold some countries to higher standards than others?

    Because the countries have already attained those standards.

    Labour does not need to nominate its next leader on the basis of whether he or she would be better than Theresa May but on the basis of whether they'd be better than Jeremy Corbyn.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,083
    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    Rolf Harris found not guilty of charges he was facing:
    http://news.sky.com/story/rolf-harris-cleared-of-three-sex-offences-10760266

    Not guilty on 3' failed to agree on four
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    Miss Cyclefree, the book of that (never heard the series) is rather good.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,054

    Patrick Kidd ‏@patrick_kidd 24m24 minutes ago

    Extraordinary story in @PrivateEyeNews that Corbyn takes time off in lieu whenever he has to work on a Sunday, such appearing on Marr

    That's actually a good idea, people operate better with two days a week of time off to relax and chew things over.
    If this is Corbyn operating better I'd fucking hate to see him when he's operating normally.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,005
    Dura_Ace said:

    Mr. Meeks, half the Commons was staring in stony silence whilst half (the opposition) was applauding. If the House is divided then how can the Speaker claim to speak for all of it by siding with one half over the other?

    Mr. Blue, you're asking for a willing second class status for England. Scottish politicians can now vote on tax rates in both England and Scotland. That is not a defensible position.

    By my estimate, roughly 52% of the House of Commons supports the decision. The Speaker is implementing the will of the House of Commons. Those who are in the minority are losers who should suck it up.
    The Bercomplainers are never going to let it go.
    Yes but in a job where "I do not wish" means "I'm vetoing this", surely "ordinarily" ought to mean "it really is my constitutional duty" (To consult with the Lords Speaker) !

    He seemed to infer his constitutional position on his personal viewpoint for vetoing Trump to the commons, but took a pass on that when it came to the Lords Speaker !!

    That was my real issue with his behaviour. He's since apologised to Fowler, but I'm still not impressed.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited February 2017
    Jobabob said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Catching up on the thread. What is this stuff about Jezza quitting? There's no chance currently as the Left won't let him – the second he quits, they lose control of the party as left wing candidates won't be able to get the requisite number of nominations. The PLP won't make the same mistake twice.

    Unless there is an up-front deal to get a 'better' lefty on the ballot

    (Like I've been advocating for a year and a half!)
    The only figure who fits that bill is Clive Lewis. Given that the two men have fallen out it doesn't look likely. Nandy is an outside option, but she qmunder him so hard to envisage.
    Lewis backs Trident, Nandy backed Owen Smith. Why would current Labour members vote for them now?

    Corbyn backed Brexit. Why would current Labour members vote for him now?
    A lie. He should have and probably wanted to but he didn't. He lost a lot of respect with his pathetic stance.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,233
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Thanks to all for your comments/birthday wishes etc.

    And to darling Roger: I wrote those paragraphs for free. Even lawyers have a heart. :)

    Re civil rights in the US this PBS documentary is very well worth seeing - Eyes on the Prize - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092999/. It uses a lot of film from the time and is both shocking (in the violence it shows) and uplifting in showing how the campaigners kept on going.

    One of these days you'll write a header I agree with and a whole chapter wont be long enough. Until then Happy Birthday for yesterday!
    Thank you.

    I'm so crushed. Didn't you even like the one where I put the stiletto into the financial services industry?

    Anyway, if you get the chance do look at the documentary. With your film experience I think you'd find it interesting.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,863
    PlatoSaid said:



    Sadly, it is spelt Twatt.

    http://tinyurl.com/j8zyjh5

    Donald is rumoured not to read too well. Apparently he promoted Bannon by accident because he signed whatever they put in front of him.
    I know you dislike immensely - however saying things like this adds zip to your argument.
    Fox news ran a similar story:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/06/report-trump-not-fully-briefed-on-exec-order-that-gave-bannon-seat-at-nsc-meetings.html
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,445
    edited February 2017
    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    Rolf Harris found not guilty of charges he was facing:
    http://news.sky.com/story/rolf-harris-cleared-of-three-sex-offences-10760266

    So where does that leave his overall position?

    Has he been convicted of anything?
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Excellent article, but why exactly should we hold some countries to higher standards than others?

    Because the countries have already attained those standards.

    Labour does not need to nominate its next leader on the basis of whether he or she would be better than Theresa May but on the basis of whether they'd be better than Jeremy Corbyn.
    I think every country should be held to the same standards. That means Bercow should have been happy to host Trump and not been happy to host China and Kuwait IMO.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,005

    AndyJS said:

    Excellent article, but why exactly should we hold some countries to higher standards than others?

    Because the countries have already attained those standards.

    Labour does not need to nominate its next leader on the basis of whether he or she would be better than Theresa May but on the basis of whether they'd be better than Jeremy Corbyn.
    Alot of countries give their mates MORE leeway on stuff than other countries. I don't think that is right either. Our standards ought to be the same for all.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,233
    TOPPING said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    Rolf Harris found not guilty of charges he was facing:
    http://news.sky.com/story/rolf-harris-cleared-of-three-sex-offences-10760266

    So where does that leave his overall position?

    Has he been convicted of anything?
    Yes. He's in prison serving time for the offences for which he was convicted a few years back. These were some additional charges.

  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,416

    Jobabob said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Catching up on the thread. What is this stuff about Jezza quitting? There's no chance currently as the Left won't let him – the second he quits, they lose control of the party as left wing candidates won't be able to get the requisite number of nominations. The PLP won't make the same mistake twice.

    Unless there is an up-front deal to get a 'better' lefty on the ballot

    (Like I've been advocating for a year and a half!)
    The only figure who fits that bill is Clive Lewis. Given that the two men have fallen out it doesn't look likely. Nandy is an outside option, but she qmunder him so hard to envisage.
    Lewis backs Trident, Nandy backed Owen Smith. Why would current Labour members vote for them now?

    Corbyn backed Brexit. Why would current Labour members vote for him now?
    A lie. He should have and probably wanted to but he didn't. He lost a lot of respect with pathetic stance.
    I will confess Labour being deeply split by the referendum and the Tories being more united was not an outcome I saw coming from Brexit. It is a little more obvious in retrospect but still strange.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,445
    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    Rolf Harris found not guilty of charges he was facing:
    http://news.sky.com/story/rolf-harris-cleared-of-three-sex-offences-10760266

    So where does that leave his overall position?

    Has he been convicted of anything?
    Yes. He's in prison serving time for the offences for which he was convicted a few years back. These were some additional charges.

    ty

    And belated Happy Birthday
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    TOPPING said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    Rolf Harris found not guilty of charges he was facing:
    http://news.sky.com/story/rolf-harris-cleared-of-three-sex-offences-10760266

    So where does that leave his overall position?

    Has he been convicted of anything?
    These were new charges on top of those he is already in jug for.

    So, brilliant use of taxpayers' money having another, and unsuccessful, pop at him.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Excellent article, but why exactly should we hold some countries to higher standards than others?

    Because the countries have already attained those standards.

    Labour does not need to nominate its next leader on the basis of whether he or she would be better than Theresa May but on the basis of whether they'd be better than Jeremy Corbyn.
    I think every country should be held to the same standards. That means Bercow should have been happy to host Trump and not been happy to host China and Kuwait IMO.
    Quite. I'm all for encouraging regimes to be better - slagging off the USA compared to China or Kuwait is risible.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,907
    OT. A review on "Moorside" the compulsive story of the disappearance of Shannon Matthews. Well written well directed and well acted about a community geographically not far from any of us but with as much in common as the man in the moon. First episode on I player second episode next week


    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/feb/08/the-moorside-review-sheridan-smith-finds-a-new-way-into-the-familiar-awful-shannon-matthews-story
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    Nigelb said:

    PlatoSaid said:



    Sadly, it is spelt Twatt.

    http://tinyurl.com/j8zyjh5

    Donald is rumoured not to read too well. Apparently he promoted Bannon by accident because he signed whatever they put in front of him.
    I know you dislike immensely - however saying things like this adds zip to your argument.
    Fox news ran a similar story:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/06/report-trump-not-fully-briefed-on-exec-order-that-gave-bannon-seat-at-nsc-meetings.html
    Fake News. Sad.
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    TOPPING said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    Rolf Harris found not guilty of charges he was facing:
    http://news.sky.com/story/rolf-harris-cleared-of-three-sex-offences-10760266

    So where does that leave his overall position?

    Has he been convicted of anything?
    On this occasion, no.

    I suppose the charges on which the jury was hung may be retried.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,083
    Ishmael_Z said:

    TOPPING said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    Rolf Harris found not guilty of charges he was facing:
    http://news.sky.com/story/rolf-harris-cleared-of-three-sex-offences-10760266

    So where does that leave his overall position?

    Has he been convicted of anything?
    These were new charges on top of those he is already in jug for.

    So, brilliant use of taxpayers' money having another, and unsuccessful, pop at him.
    TBH, should the CPS have another pop on the four unresolved? I think one's got to balance the needs of the victims with the practicality of trying again.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Corbyn wins PMQs thanks to #Nickileaks...
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    DavidL said:

    I will confess Labour being deeply split by the referendum and the Tories being more united was not an outcome I saw coming from Brexit. It is a little more obvious in retrospect but still strange.

    I was chatting to a Conservative MP a few days ago, and he made an interesting observation on that point. What he said was that, once the Article 50 vote is out of the way, Labour MPs will be able to unite around a common position, namely that they want some kind of 'soft' Brexit, guarantees of workers' rights etc etc. Conversely, divisions amongst Tory MPs will become more of a problem, since there is a wide ramge of views as to what flavour of Brexit the government should go for.
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    DavidL said:

    Jobabob said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Catching up on the thread. What is this stuff about Jezza quitting? There's no chance currently as the Left won't let him – the second he quits, they lose control of the party as left wing candidates won't be able to get the requisite number of nominations. The PLP won't make the same mistake twice.

    Unless there is an up-front deal to get a 'better' lefty on the ballot

    (Like I've been advocating for a year and a half!)
    The only figure who fits that bill is Clive Lewis. Given that the two men have fallen out it doesn't look likely. Nandy is an outside option, but she qmunder him so hard to envisage.
    Lewis backs Trident, Nandy backed Owen Smith. Why would current Labour members vote for them now?

    Corbyn backed Brexit. Why would current Labour members vote for him now?
    A lie. He should have and probably wanted to but he didn't. He lost a lot of respect with pathetic stance.
    I will confess Labour being deeply split by the referendum and the Tories being more united was not an outcome I saw coming from Brexit. It is a little more obvious in retrospect but still strange.
    It's a richly deserved comeuppance for Labour. Hopefully they'll self-destruct.
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    DavidL said:

    Jobabob said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jobabob said:

    Jobabob said:

    Catching up on the thread. What is this stuff about Jezza quitting? There's no chance currently as the Left won't let him – the second he quits, they lose control of the party as left wing candidates won't be able to get the requisite number of nominations. The PLP won't make the same mistake twice.

    Unless there is an up-front deal to get a 'better' lefty on the ballot

    (Like I've been advocating for a year and a half!)
    The only figure who fits that bill is Clive Lewis. Given that the two men have fallen out it doesn't look likely. Nandy is an outside option, but she qmunder him so hard to envisage.
    Lewis backs Trident, Nandy backed Owen Smith. Why would current Labour members vote for them now?

    Corbyn backed Brexit. Why would current Labour members vote for him now?
    A lie. He should have and probably wanted to but he didn't. He lost a lot of respect with pathetic stance.
    I will confess Labour being deeply split by the referendum and the Tories being more united was not an outcome I saw coming from Brexit. It is a little more obvious in retrospect but still strange.
    Few saw it coming, but the writing was on the wall once the Sunderland/Newcastle results came in, followed by the early departure of the Shadow Minister for Scotland. Too many pundits focused on the historical splits with the Tories over the EU and took their eyes off the ball imho.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    TOPPING said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    Rolf Harris found not guilty of charges he was facing:
    http://news.sky.com/story/rolf-harris-cleared-of-three-sex-offences-10760266

    So where does that leave his overall position?

    Has he been convicted of anything?
    It means he doesn't get an extra ration of shit in his food tonight, is about all. Unless it in any way casts doubt on the previous conviction - which I would imagine unlikely. I'm assuming this second round of prosecutions were thought by the DPP to be more difficult to get convictions on, but at least the complainants have had their day in court.

    Whether that is a good use of police and court resources is a fair thing to at least question.
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    NEW THREAD

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I seem to remember reading in some of my company pension blurb at one time that the trustees have the discretion to give a dependent's pension to a non-relative, such as a partner - if you had named them as the person you would like to receive a pension, then this would make such a decision more likely.

    It is this sort of uncertainty that makes couples get married or enter civil partnerships when they otherwise would be content without the formality.

    And in this case if her late partner had filled in the nominations form she would have received the "survivor's allowance". But he didn't, so she didn't. So she sued and won - I have some sympathy for the trustees here, as they shouldn't be required to form their own judgement on the strength or otherwise of a couple's relationship
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    DavidL said:

    I will confess Labour being deeply split by the referendum and the Tories being more united was not an outcome I saw coming from Brexit. It is a little more obvious in retrospect but still strange.

    I was chatting to a Conservative MP a few days ago, and he made an interesting observation on that point. What he said was that, once the Article 50 vote is out of the way, Labour MPs will be able to unite around a common position, namely that they want some kind of 'soft' Brexit, guarantees of workers' rights etc etc. Conversely, divisions amongst Tory MPs will become more of a problem, since there is a wide ramge of views as to what flavour of Brexit the government should go for.

    Yep - that's why it was so stupid for Corbyn to make triggering A50 such a big deal. It was always going to happen and would have been quickly forgotten, but for his three line whip.

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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,372
    Great PMQs for Jezza. Yes, I know PMQs don't really matter, but fun anyway.

    Meanwhile, the first German poll showing the Social Democrats overtaking Merkel's CDU/CSU. Yeah, it's INSA, who always show the CDU lower than anyone else, but the huge SPD bounce is being shown by all the polls.

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
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    Cyclefree said:

    Miss Cyclefree, you aren't secretly a hyena, are you?

    They love bone marrow. I think. Not sure where I heard that (suspect Attenborough).

    Well, I laugh a lot. So maybe.

    In one of the early episodes of the Neil McGregor's "A History of the World in 100 Objects" he talks about a very early tool (found somewhere in Kenya) which was used to crush bones so that early humans could get at the bone marrow.



    Interesting species, the hyena. The females are formidable; their testosterone levels are so high they've been known to grow vestigial male sex organs in addition to their own.

    I'm sure MD was unaware of this when he made the comparison, though.

    [completely agree about calves brains, btw. Done simply, they're delicious. Like light, moist foie gras.]
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    DavidL said:

    I will confess Labour being deeply split by the referendum and the Tories being more united was not an outcome I saw coming from Brexit. It is a little more obvious in retrospect but still strange.

    I was chatting to a Conservative MP a few days ago, and he made an interesting observation on that point. What he said was that, once the Article 50 vote is out of the way, Labour MPs will be able to unite around a common position, namely that they want some kind of 'soft' Brexit, guarantees of workers' rights etc etc. Conversely, divisions amongst Tory MPs will become more of a problem, since there is a wide ramge of views as to what flavour of Brexit the government should go for.
    Yes, and UKIP will surely pounce, declaring that anything short of Trumpite isolationism and immigrant bans will be a 'betrayal of the white working class'. The Tory Right will leap headlong into another panic at that point, with rumours of defections and letters to Graham Bradbury abounding once again.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,907
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Excellent article, but why exactly should we hold some countries to higher standards than others?

    Because the countries have already attained those standards.

    Labour does not need to nominate its next leader on the basis of whether he or she would be better than Theresa May but on the basis of whether they'd be better than Jeremy Corbyn.
    I think every country should be held to the same standards. That means Bercow should have been happy to host Trump and not been happy to host China and Kuwait IMO.
    The person or the Country? We never had Berlusconi speak to Parliament. I wonder whether that might have had anything to do with his bunga bunga parties and tax avoidance?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,209
    I now really hope that the Tories lose control of Surrey County Council this May. I don't care if that means the Lib Dems having more power, quite frankly the Tories (both in Westminster and in Kingston) have made a complete mess of the last few weeks. The rest of the country already has a low opinion of us (see Dr Fox's comments on this) and this will only make things worse. :(
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    TOPPING said:

    Brom said:

    May has no need to allow another indyref during her tenure. The wait should be at least 10 years post 2014 and probably longer. The SNP presence in parliament is perfect for the Tories in that it creates a party for the British public to dislike (usually the Tories), and the SNP winning keeps the Tories in power with a majority and makes Labour's task impossible.

    The only time I could forsee an Indyref before 2020 is if the polls consistently became 60-40 in favour of yes, but that would probably require some sort of impossible demographic shift.
    The SNP's best hope is a Labour minority or coalition government gaining power but ironically their own electoral success makes this highly unlikely for the near future.

    I've been speaking to someone who used to work for the UN, Mrs Sturgeon doesn't need a referendum to lawfully secede from the UK.

    She can put it in her manifesto for the next UK general election/or the next Scottish Parliament that if the SNP wins a majority of MPs/MSPs then Scotland will secede, and it will meet the UN tests for lawful secession.

    I plan to do a thread on it, once I've got some more details on it.
    As someone who wants a second referendum on Scottish Independence and would be very pleased if they attained it, I think such a plan would be suicidal. In exactly the same way that it would have been idiotic for a UK Government to just declare they were leaving the EU with no formal process, the same would apply to Scotland leaving the UK. None of the major issues which would need to be resolved to ensure independence was a success would be sorted out and there would be a significant minority verging on a majority of Scots who would be opposed to the plan.

    For all that the ill informed hot heads in both the Brexit and the Scots Independence movements might like the idea, unilateral declarations are no way to ensure the success of independence unless under the threat of violence and oppression from the existing state. Something that does not apply in the case of either Brexit or Scottish Independence.

    On the other hand May would be absolutely mad to deny the Scots a referendum if they apply for one. No one can deny the situation has materially changed quite dramatically since the last one.
    I wouldn't get bogged down in the details. In 10-20 years, whatever the chaos of UDI, the Scots will have settled down to their post-UK reality.

    The analogy being the likely disruption that any kind of Brexit will cause over the next 2-10 years. Thereafter we will be free and the ruining of this generation's economic well-being, should that transpire, will be seen as a necessary stage on our road to freedom.
    Of course both your analogy and your predictions are completely wrong.
This discussion has been closed.