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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Hills make it odds-on that UKIP won’t have a single MP after t

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  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    No real surprises. Just confirmation that there is no real plan, just a bunch of headless chickens unable to agree a halfwitted shopping list. This is an astonishingly inept government, even by recent standards.
  • That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    It's a natural consequence of the government fetishising secrecy to cover up its absence of a plan.

    @Casino_Royale's friend should invest in a briefcase if she still has her job.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    edited November 2016

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    No real surprises. Just confirmation that there is no real plan, just a bunch of headless chickens unable to agree a halfwitted shopping list. This is an astonishingly inept government, even by recent standards.
    Hmm

    I think youre getting a bit carried away. I have some sympathy with Mrs M who has had someone elses problem - Cameron, Boris take your pick - dumped on her lap. Remainers seem to be running around demanding instant answers which of course isnt going to happen. This is an iterative process.
  • Jonathan said:

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Everyone makes silly mistakes. Few have their mistakes exposed nationally. Noone died.
    RIP Noone. We barely knew ye.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    It's a natural consequence of the government fetishising secrecy to cover up its absence of a plan.

    @Casino_Royale's friend should invest in a briefcase if she still has her job.
    I dont think the french will be difficult is that much of a secret. Likewise I cant see the benefit of calling a press conference and saying it explicitly.

    People should just grow up.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,296

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Not that I don't believe you, but what I find suspicious about it is that there isn't a single crossed out word on the page.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,229

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    No real surprises. Just confirmation that there is no real plan, just a bunch of headless chickens unable to agree a halfwitted shopping list. This is an astonishingly inept government, even by recent standards.
    Hmm

    I think youre getting a bit carried away. I have some sympathy with Mrs M who has had someone elses problem - Cameron, Boris take your pick - dumped on her lap. Remainers seem to be running around demanding instant answers which of course isnt going to happen. This is an iterative process.
    I do find the irony of those who supported a government committed to doing absolutely no preparation work for this eventuality moaning because it is taking a bit of time to get going from a standing start quite amusing.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    I'd guess Carswell will still be there.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    DavidL said:

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    No real surprises. Just confirmation that there is no real plan, just a bunch of headless chickens unable to agree a halfwitted shopping list. This is an astonishingly inept government, even by recent standards.
    Hmm

    I think youre getting a bit carried away. I have some sympathy with Mrs M who has had someone elses problem - Cameron, Boris take your pick - dumped on her lap. Remainers seem to be running around demanding instant answers which of course isnt going to happen. This is an iterative process.
    I do find the irony of those who supported a government committed to doing absolutely no preparation work for this eventuality moaning because it is taking a bit of time to get going from a standing start quite amusing.
    The sour grapes have been pressed and turned into vinegar with a Robert Parker score of 100
  • Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    No real surprises. Just confirmation that there is no real plan, just a bunch of headless chickens unable to agree a halfwitted shopping list. This is an astonishingly inept government, even by recent standards.
    Hmm

    I think youre getting a bit carried away. I have some sympathy with Mrs M who has had someone elses problem - Cameron, Boris take your pick - dumped on her lap. Remainers seem to be running around demanding instant answers which of course isnt going to happen. This is an iterative process.
    It is in the nature of government that you deal with inherited problems. In the absence of clear direction from the PM there will be drift and speculation. If May does not control the narrative then others will. Her attitude stinks of weak leadership.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.

    So what? How will I benefit.. No sign of superfast here for decades.
  • Jonathan said:

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Everyone makes silly mistakes. Few have their mistakes exposed nationally. Noone died.
    Thanks.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,836

    kle4 said:

    Winning a bet on UKIP seats at the GE entirely wiped out my losses at being so woeful at predictions elsewhere (I do play for small stakes!). I think it's too early to take a guess right now, but if pressed I would say 0 is more likely than making a breakthrough in many seats.

    Is that guessing that Carswell will re-rat or will lose?
    Both
  • tlg86 said:

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Not that I don't believe you, but what I find suspicious about it is that there isn't a single crossed out word on the page.
    It's cock-up not conspiracy.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,367
    edited November 2016
    I'm unclear as to Ukip's purpose at the moment. Mrs May seems to be pushing for Brexit despite the obstacles thrown up. So what is the Ukip message? And Labour are in a worse position.

    Whenever May calls a GE, it will be at a time when she can point to something she's achieved.

    Labour's message is bound to be confused. It could be "Unlimited immigration is good for you." but they're not all on board - especially in the North. Or perhaps "You're all fascist bastards." Yeah, that should resonate. And something like "We're very worried about immigration, so let's discuss it." will smack of dishonesty.

    Their only hope is that we get a good deal on Brexit and the subject fades, leaving the economy as the number one issue. And Jezza steps down, leaving McDonnell to say soothing words (and hope no one talks about other things).

    Edit: The NHS? Their best hope, but that's been done to death by them already.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,712
    edited November 2016

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    No real surprises. Just confirmation that there is no real plan, just a bunch of headless chickens unable to agree a halfwitted shopping list. This is an astonishingly inept government, even by recent standards.
    Hmm

    I think youre getting a bit carried away. I have some sympathy with Mrs M who has had someone elses problem - Cameron, Boris take your pick - dumped on her lap. Remainers seem to be running around demanding instant answers which of course isnt going to happen. This is an iterative process.
    It is in the nature of government that you deal with inherited problems. In the absence of clear direction from the PM there will be drift and speculation. If May does not control the narrative then others will. Her attitude stinks of weak leadership.
    You deal with inherited problems of course, but then there is also the timescale in which they appear.

    Darling Dave told the nation he would still be PM today. He then resigned within 24 hours leaving a vacuum.

    He did no preparation work for a plan B if he lost, something the remainers agreed with.

    So if MRs M started behind the curve she still has 3 months to catch it up. Chill.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,836

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    The poor photographers live for these moments.
  • That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    It's a natural consequence of the government fetishising secrecy to cover up its absence of a plan.

    @Casino_Royale's friend should invest in a briefcase if she still has her job.
    Mark Field rates her very highly and she's worked for him for years. I've gently already given her the obvious feedback.

    I won't be commenting on this further.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    Jonathan said:

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Everyone makes silly mistakes. Few have their mistakes exposed nationally. Noone died.
    Mistake or not, all part of the phoney war.

    (Just as well she wasn't an MOD aide coming from a launch code meeting.)
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,838
    I'm glad cabinet discussions are at the level of 'our objective is to have our cake and eat it chaps' - pauses to ruffle hair for effect. It's good to be led by such statesmen.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333

    Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.

    As long as the government holds a blocking minority stake I'm OK with this. No use for openreach to be listed and then bought by some overseas sovereign wealth fund.
  • MaxPB said:

    Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.

    As long as the government holds a blocking minority stake I'm OK with this. No use for openreach to be listed and then bought by some overseas sovereign wealth fund.
    I think BT retains complete ownership, but will be legally separate with own board. EU need to approve first. Clearly a first step to break-up if things don't move how ofcom would like.

    I know there are huge problems with broadband in rural areas, but the constant complaint that BT won't lay fibre to the door of every home seems a bit excessive to me. Their solution of fibre to street cabinet and VHDL over copper line to house seems rather clever piece of technology that avoids ripping up the streets.
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    It's a natural consequence of the government fetishising secrecy to cover up its absence of a plan.

    @Casino_Royale's friend should invest in a briefcase if she still has her job.
    Not a very nice person, are you? "If she still has a job"?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    MaxPB said:

    Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.

    As long as the government holds a blocking minority stake I'm OK with this. No use for openreach to be listed and then bought by some overseas sovereign wealth fund.
    Bloody foreigners coming over here with their FDI.
  • I'm glad cabinet discussions are at the level of 'our objective is to have our cake and eat it chaps' - pauses to ruffle hair for effect. It's good to be led by such statesmen.

    I don't know. These phrases have their uses. Churchill talked about the soft underbelly of the crocodile as a war strategy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,836
    ab195 said:

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    It's a natural consequence of the government fetishising secrecy to cover up its absence of a plan.

    @Casino_Royale's friend should invest in a briefcase if she still has her job.
    Not a very nice person, are you? "If she still has a job"?
    I don't see how he said he wished she didn't. It is the sort of thing people might get sacked for, though it would be harsh.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    It's a natural consequence of the government fetishising secrecy to cover up its absence of a plan.

    @Casino_Royale's friend should invest in a briefcase if she still has her job.
    Mark Field rates her very highly and she's worked for him for years. I've gently already given her the obvious feedback.

    I won't be commenting on this further.
    Dear god the government is being advised by people who are being advised by you.


    (Just kidding)
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Lots of anger on Twitter this isn't even getting a mention on main cable networks

    What's happening in #Gatlinburg is unreal!!!
    https://t.co/slKZvsX4Xe
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333

    MaxPB said:

    Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.

    As long as the government holds a blocking minority stake I'm OK with this. No use for openreach to be listed and then bought by some overseas sovereign wealth fund.
    I think BT retains complete ownership, but will be legally separate with own board. EU need to approve first. Clearly a first step to break-up if things don't move how ofcom would like.

    I know there are huge problems with broadband in rural areas, but the constant complaint that BT won't lay fibre to the door of every home seems a bit excessive to me. Their solution of fibre to street cabinet and VHDL over copper line to house seems rather clever piece of technology that avoids ripping up the streets.
    FTTH is the future. It would cost around £16bn to deliver, which is £1.6bn per year over 10 years. Instead BT are spending Openreach profits on TV rights which no one gives a shit about.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.

    As long as the government holds a blocking minority stake I'm OK with this. No use for openreach to be listed and then bought by some overseas sovereign wealth fund.
    Bloody foreigners coming over here with their FDI.
    Explain just how we benefit as a nation if all of the profit from the monopoly provider of internet services are offshored?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    It's capitalism sweetie. Suck it up.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,229
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.

    As long as the government holds a blocking minority stake I'm OK with this. No use for openreach to be listed and then bought by some overseas sovereign wealth fund.
    I think BT retains complete ownership, but will be legally separate with own board. EU need to approve first. Clearly a first step to break-up if things don't move how ofcom would like.

    I know there are huge problems with broadband in rural areas, but the constant complaint that BT won't lay fibre to the door of every home seems a bit excessive to me. Their solution of fibre to street cabinet and VHDL over copper line to house seems rather clever piece of technology that avoids ripping up the streets.
    FTTH is the future. It would cost around £16bn to deliver, which is £1.6bn per year over 10 years. Instead BT are spending Openreach profits on TV rights which no one gives a shit about.
    Hmm...BT Sport got me to switch my internet provider for the first time, well ever actually.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333
    TOPPING said:

    It's capitalism sweetie. Suck it up.

    Monopoly providers within a free market?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.

    As long as the government holds a blocking minority stake I'm OK with this. No use for openreach to be listed and then bought by some overseas sovereign wealth fund.
    I think BT retains complete ownership, but will be legally separate with own board. EU need to approve first. Clearly a first step to break-up if things don't move how ofcom would like.

    I know there are huge problems with broadband in rural areas, but the constant complaint that BT won't lay fibre to the door of every home seems a bit excessive to me. Their solution of fibre to street cabinet and VHDL over copper line to house seems rather clever piece of technology that avoids ripping up the streets.
    FTTH is the future. It would cost around £16bn to deliver, which is £1.6bn per year over 10 years. Instead BT are spending Openreach profits on TV rights which no one gives a shit about.
    Hmm...BT Sport got me to switch my internet provider for the first time, well ever actually.
    TV rights paid for by the wholesale customers of Sky, TalkTalk and others, no doubt. BT are a crooked company. Glad that ofcom are finally growing a pair, I just wish they had blocked the EE purchase and forced BT to buy O2, which has a much less favourable market position.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    edited November 2016
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's capitalism sweetie. Suck it up.

    Monopoly providers within a free market?
    If it is well regulated I don't have a problem with foreign ownership. I mean the analogy is with A**le.
  • Press photographers need to justify their very expensive cameras and lenses every now and then.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's capitalism sweetie. Suck it up.

    Monopoly providers within a free market?
    If it is well regulated I don't have a problem with foreign ownership. I mean the analogy is with A**le.
    Apple aren't a monopoly provider though they have competition, Samsung, Sony, HTC and others all sell phones. Openreach is the monopoly provider pf broadband in the UK, it should not be allowed to fall into overseas ownership.
  • DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.

    As long as the government holds a blocking minority stake I'm OK with this. No use for openreach to be listed and then bought by some overseas sovereign wealth fund.
    I think BT retains complete ownership, but will be legally separate with own board. EU need to approve first. Clearly a first step to break-up if things don't move how ofcom would like.

    I know there are huge problems with broadband in rural areas, but the constant complaint that BT won't lay fibre to the door of every home seems a bit excessive to me. Their solution of fibre to street cabinet and VHDL over copper line to house seems rather clever piece of technology that avoids ripping up the streets.
    FTTH is the future. It would cost around £16bn to deliver, which is £1.6bn per year over 10 years. Instead BT are spending Openreach profits on TV rights which no one gives a shit about.
    Hmm...BT Sport got me to switch my internet provider for the first time, well ever actually.
    The future for BT, at least as a potential staging post for many homes, is not FTTH, but G.Fast - a higher speed DSL over the existing copper. Still in trials, may not work properly in real conditions.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    edited November 2016
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's capitalism sweetie. Suck it up.

    Monopoly providers within a free market?
    If it is well regulated I don't have a problem with foreign ownership. I mean the analogy is with A**le.
    Apple aren't a monopoly provider though they have competition, Samsung, Sony, HTC and others all sell phones. Openreach is the monopoly provider pf broadband in the UK, it should not be allowed to fall into overseas ownership.
    I said analogy.

    How does Apple having a foreign owner benefit the UK?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.

    As long as the government holds a blocking minority stake I'm OK with this. No use for openreach to be listed and then bought by some overseas sovereign wealth fund.
    I think BT retains complete ownership, but will be legally separate with own board. EU need to approve first. Clearly a first step to break-up if things don't move how ofcom would like.

    I know there are huge problems with broadband in rural areas, but the constant complaint that BT won't lay fibre to the door of every home seems a bit excessive to me. Their solution of fibre to street cabinet and VHDL over copper line to house seems rather clever piece of technology that avoids ripping up the streets.
    FTTH is the future. It would cost around £16bn to deliver, which is £1.6bn per year over 10 years. Instead BT are spending Openreach profits on TV rights which no one gives a shit about.
    Hmm...BT Sport got me to switch my internet provider for the first time, well ever actually.
    The future for BT, at least as a potential staging post for many homes, is not FTTH, but G.Fast - a higher speed DSL over the existing copper. Still in trials, may not work properly in real conditions.
    It also requires an active electrical supply to each and every distribution node in the country, distribution node is a fancy way of saying telegraph pole. The idea is ridiculous and BT are just using G.Fast as a way to not have to spend the money on proper fibre because they can't afford to do that and buy up TV rights at the same time.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's capitalism sweetie. Suck it up.

    Monopoly providers within a free market?
    If it is well regulated I don't have a problem with foreign ownership. I mean the analogy is with A**le.
    Apple aren't a monopoly provider though they have competition, Samsung, Sony, HTC and others all sell phones. Openreach is the monopoly provider pf broadband in the UK, it should not be allowed to fall into overseas ownership.
    I said analogy.

    How does Apple having a foreign owner benefit the UK?
    There are no similarities between Apple and Openreach though. Apple is one player in a huge market which includes over 100 providers. Openreach is one of two players in the UK and for 60% of the country it is the only game in town.

    How are the two situations even comparable?!
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Brilliant Maps
    How Long Is Great Britain’s Coastline? Well, It Depends... https://t.co/UcDc3KR6wM (map credit @undertheraedar) https://t.co/ht1X3bTjmK

    Nice gif
  • tlg86 said:

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Not that I don't believe you, but what I find suspicious about it is that there isn't a single crossed out word on the page.
    It's cock-up not conspiracy.
    And pure coincidence it is only a week or so since this (carrying documents in front of snappers) was discussed on this very here pb (by Plato iirc) as a way of leaking information with plausible deniability.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's capitalism sweetie. Suck it up.

    Monopoly providers within a free market?
    If it is well regulated I don't have a problem with foreign ownership. I mean the analogy is with A**le.
    Apple aren't a monopoly provider though they have competition, Samsung, Sony, HTC and others all sell phones. Openreach is the monopoly provider pf broadband in the UK, it should not be allowed to fall into overseas ownership.
    I said analogy.

    How does Apple having a foreign owner benefit the UK?
    There are no similarities between Apple and Openreach though. Apple is one player in a huge market which includes over 100 providers. Openreach is one of two players in the UK and for 60% of the country it is the only game in town.

    How are the two situations even comparable?!
    Foreign ownership repatriating (or recognising) profits elsewhere.
  • MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.

    As long as the government holds a blocking minority stake I'm OK with this. No use for openreach to be listed and then bought by some overseas sovereign wealth fund.
    I think BT retains complete ownership, but will be legally separate with own board. EU need to approve first. Clearly a first step to break-up if things don't move how ofcom would like.

    I know there are huge problems with broadband in rural areas, but the constant complaint that BT won't lay fibre to the door of every home seems a bit excessive to me. Their solution of fibre to street cabinet and VHDL over copper line to house seems rather clever piece of technology that avoids ripping up the streets.
    FTTH is the future. It would cost around £16bn to deliver, which is £1.6bn per year over 10 years. Instead BT are spending Openreach profits on TV rights which no one gives a shit about.
    Hmm...BT Sport got me to switch my internet provider for the first time, well ever actually.
    The future for BT, at least as a potential staging post for many homes, is not FTTH, but G.Fast - a higher speed DSL over the existing copper. Still in trials, may not work properly in real conditions.
    It also requires an active electrical supply to each and every distribution node in the country, distribution node is a fancy way of saying telegraph pole. The idea is ridiculous and BT are just using G.Fast as a way to not have to spend the money on proper fibre because they can't afford to do that and buy up TV rights at the same time.
    Ok, but BT seem to be planning to roll the fibre to street cabinets (which have power) and then up to 350m of copper.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    I'm about an hour behind on the Today programme, but from what I am hearing I don't think that Stephen Kinnock has read the comments in yesterday's immigration thread....
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's capitalism sweetie. Suck it up.

    Monopoly providers within a free market?
    If it is well regulated I don't have a problem with foreign ownership. I mean the analogy is with A**le.
    Apple aren't a monopoly provider though they have competition, Samsung, Sony, HTC and others all sell phones. Openreach is the monopoly provider pf broadband in the UK, it should not be allowed to fall into overseas ownership.
    I said analogy.

    How does Apple having a foreign owner benefit the UK?
    There are no similarities between Apple and Openreach though. Apple is one player in a huge market which includes over 100 providers. Openreach is one of two players in the UK and for 60% of the country it is the only game in town.

    How are the two situations even comparable?!
    Foreign ownership repatriating (or recognising) profits elsewhere.
    In a market with huge competition driving down prices or driving up quality in order to hold market share (look at how Apple are losing share with the substandard iPhone 7). The overseas profits require continued investment in advertising, software and customer service to maintain. Which mechanism would force an overseas owned Openreach to do the same?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    The BBC keeps saying "Britain's negotiating strategy is to 'have cake and eat it' "

    If they can't tell the difference between an objective and a strategy how can we expect them to get anything else right?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,421

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    It would seem to answer my question down thread about whether this was the government indulging in deniable running commentary or David Davis pushing an agenda that hasn't been agreed.
  • Mr. Charles, also, what else would the desired outcome be?

    "Have thin gruel"? "Get kicked about and have lunch money stolen"?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's capitalism sweetie. Suck it up.

    Monopoly providers within a free market?
    If it is well regulated I don't have a problem with foreign ownership. I mean the analogy is with A**le.
    Apple aren't a monopoly provider though they have competition, Samsung, Sony, HTC and others all sell phones. Openreach is the monopoly provider pf broadband in the UK, it should not be allowed to fall into overseas ownership.
    I said analogy.

    How does Apple having a foreign owner benefit the UK?
    There are no similarities between Apple and Openreach though. Apple is one player in a huge market which includes over 100 providers. Openreach is one of two players in the UK and for 60% of the country it is the only game in town.

    How are the two situations even comparable?!
    Foreign ownership repatriating (or recognising) profits elsewhere.
    In a market with huge competition driving down prices or driving up quality in order to hold market share (look at how Apple are losing share with the substandard iPhone 7). The overseas profits require continued investment in advertising, software and customer service to maintain. Which mechanism would force an overseas owned Openreach to do the same?
    Good regulation.
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Brilliant Maps
    How Long Is Great Britain’s Coastline? Well, It Depends... https://t.co/UcDc3KR6wM (map credit @undertheraedar) https://t.co/ht1X3bTjmK

    Nice gif

    Nice.

    I remember an episode of Coast that did something similar.
    Effectively our coastline is infinitely long.
    Fractals innit.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.

    As long as the government holds a blocking minority stake I'm OK with this. No use for openreach to be listed and then bought by some overseas sovereign wealth fund.
    I think BT retains complete ownership, but will be legally separate with own board. EU need to approve first. Clearly a first step to break-up if things don't move how ofcom would like.

    I know there are huge problems with broadband in rural areas, but the constant complaint that BT won't lay fibre to the door of every home seems a bit excessive to me. Their solution of fibre to street cabinet and VHDL over copper line to house seems rather clever piece of technology that avoids ripping up the streets.
    FTTH is the future. It would cost around £16bn to deliver, which is £1.6bn per year over 10 years. Instead BT are spending Openreach profits on TV rights which no one gives a shit about.
    Hmm...BT Sport got me to switch my internet provider for the first time, well ever actually.
    The future for BT, at least as a potential staging post for many homes, is not FTTH, but G.Fast - a higher speed DSL over the existing copper. Still in trials, may not work properly in real conditions.
    It also requires an active electrical supply to each and every distribution node in the country, distribution node is a fancy way of saying telegraph pole. The idea is ridiculous and BT are just using G.Fast as a way to not have to spend the money on proper fibre because they can't afford to do that and buy up TV rights at the same time.
    Ok, but BT seem to be planning to roll the fibre to street cabinets (which have power) and then up to 350m of copper.
    Yes that delivers up to 80Mbps, which in a world of 4K, game streaming and 80GB game downloads.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I'm glad cabinet discussions are at the level of 'our objective is to have our cake and eat it chaps' - pauses to ruffle hair for effect. It's good to be led by such statesmen.

    This wasn't a cabinet meeting.

    It was a meeting between the (pro-Remain) Mark Field and someone in the Brexit department. These look like notes of that discussion.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Ok, but BT seem to be planning to roll the fibre to street cabinets (which have power) and then up to 350m of copper.

    That is how their current "superfast fibre" offering works. It's VDSL instead of ADSL for the "last mile"
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited November 2016
    Charles said:

    This wasn't a cabinet meeting.

    It was a meeting between the (pro-Remain) Mark Field and someone in the Brexit department. These look like notes of that discussion.

    @faisalislam: Fairly obvious memo is high level political briefing by DeXEU for Mark Field, Tory international vice chair ahead of meetings with Dutch
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Morning all,

    Breaking: BT to be made to split off Openreach as separate company.

    As long as the government holds a blocking minority stake I'm OK with this. No use for openreach to be listed and then bought by some overseas sovereign wealth fund.
    I think BT retains complete ownership, but will be legally separate with own board. EU need to approve first. Clearly a first step to break-up if things don't move how ofcom would like.

    I know there are huge problems with broadband in rural areas, but the constant complaint that BT won't lay fibre to the door of every home seems a bit excessive to me. Their solution of fibre to street cabinet and VHDL over copper line to house seems rather clever piece of technology that avoids ripping up the streets.
    FTTH is the future. It would cost around £16bn to deliver, which is £1.6bn per year over 10 years. Instead BT are spending Openreach profits on TV rights which no one gives a shit about.
    Hmm...BT Sport got me to switch my internet provider for the first time, well ever actually.
    The future for BT, at least as a potential staging post for many homes, is not FTTH, but G.Fast - a higher speed DSL over the existing copper. Still in trials, may not work properly in real conditions.
    It also requires an active electrical supply to each and every distribution node in the country, distribution node is a fancy way of saying telegraph pole. The idea is ridiculous and BT are just using G.Fast as a way to not have to spend the money on proper fibre because they can't afford to do that and buy up TV rights at the same time.
    Ok, but BT seem to be planning to roll the fibre to street cabinets (which have power) and then up to 350m of copper.
    Yes that delivers up to 80Mbps, which in a world of 4K, game streaming and 80GB game downloads.
    Welcome to 2010...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's capitalism sweetie. Suck it up.

    Monopoly providers within a free market?
    If it is well regulated I don't have a problem with foreign ownership. I mean the analogy is with A**le.
    Apple aren't a monopoly provider though they have competition, Samsung, Sony, HTC and others all sell phones. Openreach is the monopoly provider pf broadband in the UK, it should not be allowed to fall into overseas ownership.
    I said analogy.

    How does Apple having a foreign owner benefit the UK?
    There are no similarities between Apple and Openreach though. Apple is one player in a huge market which includes over 100 providers. Openreach is one of two players in the UK and for 60% of the country it is the only game in town.

    How are the two situations even comparable?!
    Foreign ownership repatriating (or recognising) profits elsewhere.
    In a market with huge competition driving down prices or driving up quality in order to hold market share (look at how Apple are losing share with the substandard iPhone 7). The overseas profits require continued investment in advertising, software and customer service to maintain. Which mechanism would force an overseas owned Openreach to do the same?
    Good regulation.
    Isn't that the same as forcing them to stay listed? Good regulation will effectively limit the profitability of the company. Why not just go for a golden stake?
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Brilliant Maps
    How Long Is Great Britain’s Coastline? Well, It Depends... https://t.co/UcDc3KR6wM (map credit @undertheraedar) https://t.co/ht1X3bTjmK

    Nice gif

    Nice.

    I remember an episode of Coast that did something similar.
    Effectively our coastline is infinitely long.
    Fractals innit.
    Also a programme with Alan Davies asking 'how long is my piece of string'.
  • with 5g round the corner, you have to start asking why BT are doing anything that is not FTTH.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333

    with 5g round the corner, you have to start asking why BT are doing anything that is not FTTH.

    Because they are setting aside £600-700m per year for TV rights which cuts into the ability of Openreach to make FTTH happen.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    This is an entertaining twitter thread - read the replies

    Lady C
    Comments on this thread are priceless!! https://t.co/rjqr6Rqefm

    Bank of England
    @SteffiRox there is a trace of tallow in the polymer pellets used in the base substrate of the polymer £5 notes

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited November 2016
    Scott_P said:

    Charles said:

    This wasn't a cabinet meeting.

    It was a meeting between the (pro-Remain) Mark Field and someone in the Brexit department. These look like notes of that discussion.

    @faisalislam: Fairly obvious memo is high level political briefing by DeXEU for Mark Field, Tory international vice chair ahead of meetings with Dutch
    It's not a "memo"

    It's self evidently notes of a meeting

    He's have more credibility if he didn't feel the need to big things up.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,982

    PlatoSaid said:

    Brilliant Maps
    How Long Is Great Britain’s Coastline? Well, It Depends... https://t.co/UcDc3KR6wM (map credit @undertheraedar) https://t.co/ht1X3bTjmK

    Nice gif

    Nice.

    I remember an episode of Coast that did something similar.
    Effectively our coastline is infinitely long.
    Fractals innit.
    The first paper on fractals by Benoit Mandlebrot was on that topic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Long_Is_the_Coast_of_Britain?_Statistical_Self-Similarity_and_Fractional_Dimension

    Having walked the coastline of Britain, I have the definitive answer: it is 6,266.5 miles, or a smidgen over 10,000 km. Other walkers have definitive answers at 7,000 miles, 4,500, or even 4,000 miles depending on how many ferries they took. ;)

    As an aside, more people are walking the coast of Britain than ever before. They'll all come up with their own individual figures for the distance. Such is the nature of the coast.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,421
    Charles said:

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    The BBC keeps saying "Britain's negotiating strategy is to 'have cake and eat it' "

    If they can't tell the difference between an objective and a strategy how can we expect them to get anything else right?
    TBF this leaky government has given plenty of suggestions that they don't see the difference either. Maybe it's a devastatingly effective disinformation campaign and the bullet proof master plan is kept will hidden from prying eyes.
  • MaxPB said:

    with 5g round the corner, you have to start asking why BT are doing anything that is not FTTH.

    Because they are setting aside £600-700m per year for TV rights which cuts into the ability of Openreach to make FTTH happen.
    Is there some actual data to show that the TV rights are being funded by Openreach and not by BT?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_P said:
    So we were right not to guarantee the rights of EU citizens living in the UK then!
  • PlatoSaid said:

    Brilliant Maps
    How Long Is Great Britain’s Coastline? Well, It Depends... https://t.co/UcDc3KR6wM (map credit @undertheraedar) https://t.co/ht1X3bTjmK

    Nice gif

    Nice.

    I remember an episode of Coast that did something similar.
    Effectively our coastline is infinitely long.
    Fractals innit.
    The first paper on fractals by Benoit Mandlebrot was on that topic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Long_Is_the_Coast_of_Britain?_Statistical_Self-Similarity_and_Fractional_Dimension

    Having walked the coastline of Britain, I have the definitive answer: it is 6,266.5 miles, or a smidgen over 10,000 km. Other walkers have definitive answers at 7,000 miles, 4,500, or even 4,000 miles depending on how many ferries they took. ;)

    As an aside, more people are walking the coast of Britain than ever before. They'll all come up with their own individual figures for the distance. Such is the nature of the coast.
    When I worked in L'x, someone who had worked with Mandelbrot came to do the memorial lecture.

    On our lab whiteboard, I wrote "what does the B in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for?"

    "Benoit B. Mandelbrot".

    No-one got it.

    Sigh.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Charles said:

    It's not a "memo"

    It's self evidently notes of a meeting

    He's have more credibility if he didn't feel the need to big things up.

    a note, document or other communication that helps the memory by recording events or observations on a topic

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorandum
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Just for info, Stefan Molyneux has a nice graphic of Trump quotes from Art of the Deal

    For those who still don't get his tweets, this may convince them that he isn't as daft as they wish.

    Or they can continue to believe that it's all some bizarre sequence of inexplicable events that resulted in his status as POTUS Elect

    “I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration -- and a very effective form of promotion.” - Donald Trump https://t.co/s0bShpGoPI
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,907
    Charles said:

    Scott_P said:

    Charles said:

    This wasn't a cabinet meeting.

    It was a meeting between the (pro-Remain) Mark Field and someone in the Brexit department. These look like notes of that discussion.

    @faisalislam: Fairly obvious memo is high level political briefing by DeXEU for Mark Field, Tory international vice chair ahead of meetings with Dutch
    It's not a "memo"

    It's self evidently notes of a meeting

    He's have more credibility if he didn't feel the need to big things up.
    "Memo" is playing it down. The fact that it is notes from a meeting means that it's a more comprehensive account of the current thinking or lack of it than you'd get from something on the record.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,982
    PlatoSaid said:

    Just for info, Stefan Molyneux has a nice graphic of Trump quotes from Art of the Deal

    For those who still don't get his tweets, this may convince them that he isn't as daft as they wish.

    Or they can continue to believe that it's all some bizarre sequence of inexplicable events that resulted in his status as POTUS Elect

    “I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration -- and a very effective form of promotion.” - Donald Trump https://t.co/s0bShpGoPI

    Again, you are creating strawmen. Few people have called him daft, especially on here. However, I might ask you if you think that that link shows characteristics of a good leader and government?
  • Incidentally, if anyone else here ever read the 8-Bit Theater (of nuklearpower) they may recall there was talk of a cakeological singularity towards the end of the epic adventure.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,838
    edited November 2016
    FF43 said:

    Charles said:

    That aide who was photographed going into No.10 with the notes yesterday is a personal friend of mine.

    I can confirm it was absolutely an accident, and she's now kicking herself whilst the press won't leave her alone.

    Personally I cant see what all the excitement is about. Is it a surprise we'd like a deal that suits us, or that the french will be difficult ? The press is just bored and looking for column inches.
    The BBC keeps saying "Britain's negotiating strategy is to 'have cake and eat it' "

    If they can't tell the difference between an objective and a strategy how can we expect them to get anything else right?
    TBF this leaky government has given plenty of suggestions that they don't see the difference either. Maybe it's a devastatingly effective disinformation campaign and the bullet proof master plan is kept will hidden from prying eyes.
    UK govt reminds me of the WW1 generals. Fighting a needless contemporary war on the back of strategies that are 50 years out of date.
  • New thread.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,229
    PlatoSaid said:

    This is an entertaining twitter thread - read the replies

    Lady C
    Comments on this thread are priceless!! https://t.co/rjqr6Rqefm

    Bank of England
    @SteffiRox there is a trace of tallow in the polymer pellets used in the base substrate of the polymer £5 notes

    Hope this does not lead to a re-run of 1857. Did none of the BoE officials study history?
This discussion has been closed.