This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
Interesting - thanks. How does the EU avoid it common external tariff being circumvented via imports at lower tariffs coming via EFTA non-EU countries?
When exporting from (say) Norway to the EU, there is a form which the exporter has to fill in declaring the origin of the goods. Tariffs are payable if the goods came from outside the EEA. (That wouldn't apply for the customs union).
Seaford and North Hykeham has elected die-hard Tory Europhiles before, Douglas Hogg and now Phillips it seems so it will probably be a Tory hold. However given North Kesteven district, if which the seat forms part, comfortably voted Leave UKIP will fancy their chances, especially if the Tories pick another Remainer as their candidate given Parliament now has a vote on Brexit
The Tories cant and wont pick a remainer - it was their referendum and they, of all parties, must now own the outcome. The future for remainers in the Tory Party is now bleak.
This is bad news for those who don't want a Hard Brexit.
The Tory Party and Parliament is losing a pro Single market not obsessed by immigration Leaver.
The Tories are losing a half-hearted MP, more interested in his profession than his constituents.
Yes, he does look like a part timer. "He attracted criticism from some for spending around 1,700 hours annually working as a barrister whilst serving as an MP. Phillips described his own parliamentary attendance record as "excellent", asserting his outside work "doesn’t affect the way in which I perform as an MP", and accused his critics of "envy" over his yearly £750,000 second job earnings.[9]"
I did a quick calculation and 1700 hours is 212 8 hour days. That is a lot more than just a job on the side.
Indeed. He's barely even a part-time MP. I don't have a great problem with MPs earning from second jobs. I do have a problem when they are taking the p1ss.
Given the times that the courts sit and those that Parliament sits, he must have been in parliament only in the late evenings. As with you, I don't have an issue with second jobs (in my view an MP's salary is derisory) but his judgement was lacking (which is interesting in both being at the bar and being an MP).
How much committee work, constituency work or other Parliamentary work did he do? Of course, the local (and national) Conservative Party is to blame. They bloody selected him.
This is bad news for those who don't want a Hard Brexit.
The Tory Party and Parliament is losing a pro Single market not obsessed by immigration Leaver.
The Tories are losing a half-hearted MP, more interested in his profession than his constituents.
Yes, he does look like a part timer. "He attracted criticism from some for spending around 1,700 hours annually working as a barrister whilst serving as an MP. Phillips described his own parliamentary attendance record as "excellent", asserting his outside work "doesn’t affect the way in which I perform as an MP", and accused his critics of "envy" over his yearly £750,000 second job earnings.[9]"
I did a quick calculation and 1700 hours is 212 8 hour days. That is a lot more than just a job on the side.
A lawyer died and was met by St. Peter at the pearly gates. “There must be some mistake,” the lawyer complained. “Why is that?” asked St. Peter. “Because I’m only forty-two years old!” exclaimed the lawyer. “Oh? According to your billed hours, you are eighty-seven!
A lawyer died and went to heaven? What is this - some kind of joke?
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
You do realise that titanic is an adjective don't you?
Wow, Tories finally developing a real base in rural north east and south Scotland now, as Labour lose one. Go Ruth!
Twitter Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 9m9 minutes ago One Tory gain from the SNP, one technical gain from Lib Dems (although former co-leader Martin Kitts-Hayes was sitting as an independent)
Ruth is bringing the Scottish Tories off life support.
She'd be wasted at Westminster.
She's also a soft Leaver, so would have no chance of being anything other than a very backbench MP.
Fear not, not for the first time Ruth has enthusiastically embraced the new reality. The SCons are uniformly pro Brexit now (or pro whatever vague interpretation of Brexit May is making on any given day). Last night's 2 by-elections adjoined Scotland's most Brexit friendly region, which may not be entirely unconnected to the results.
Oh I think the results have a lot more do with the increasingly unpopular domestic decisions and record of the SNP Government. Hiking up the council tax for higher bands, then skimming off the extra revenue raised to use centrally has gone down like a bucket of cold sick up here in Aberdeenshire!
1. We will respect the decision to leave the European Union 2. We therefore need to negotiate the best deal for Britain outside the EU 3. That deal is to become a member of the EFTA - access to the single market, freedom to conduct our own trade deals, freedom from CAP and CFP
The only stumbling block is free movement. But as we will have an open border with the EU in Ireland, that's never going to have an easy fix anyway.
If we campaign to stay in, we will be obliterated. And apparently saying that makes me racist...
Freedom to conduct trade deals implies leaving the customs union. This would lead to tariffs in trade with the EU as well as administrative burdens in respect of country of origin etc. A hard border in NI would also be difficult to avoid. Nissan must have been given assurances relating to the customs union I would have thought.
Not so. EFTA members of the EEA do not have barriers to trade with the EU but are not in the Customs Union and are able to conduct their own trade deals.
Strictly speaking EFTA members of the EEA don't have to pay tariffs on trade with the EU, but they do have to show compliance with content origination rules. I read somewhere that the cost of compliance was typically 3-4% of the goods, which is significant in a low margin business. This will be an issue for the Nissan deal for example. There are costs, which wouldn't apply if those EEA countries were in a customs union with the EU.
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
You want the UK to become part of a U.S.E.?
I would rather my country were playing its part in shaping the institutions of the future than standing aside and opting out.
We live in a world where almost nowhere on the planet is within not much more than a day's travel and where information can be transmitted by a variety of means instantaneously. With an economy dominated by supra-national corporations. Yet we have politicians and many voters who behave as if it still took a month on board ship to reach Australia.
Wow, Tories finally developing a real base in rural north east and south Scotland now, as Labour lose one. Go Ruth!
Twitter Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 9m9 minutes ago One Tory gain from the SNP, one technical gain from Lib Dems (although former co-leader Martin Kitts-Hayes was sitting as an independent)
Ruth is bringing the Scottish Tories off life support.
She'd be wasted at Westminster.
She's also a soft Leaver, so would have no chance of being anything other than a very backbench MP.
Fear not, not for the first time Ruth has enthusiastically embraced the new reality. The SCons are uniformly pro Brexit now (or pro whatever vague interpretation of Brexit May is making on any given day). Last night's 2 by-elections adjoined Scotland's most Brexit friendly region, which may not be entirely unconnected to the results.
Oh I think the results have a lot more do with the increasingly unpopular domestic decisions and record of the SNP Government. Hiking up the council tax for higher bands, then skimming off the extra revenue raised to use centrally has gone down like a bucket of cold sick up here in Aberdeenshire!
What's your prediction for the Aberdeen & Aberdeenshire councils in next year's election?
1. We will respect the decision to leave the European Union 2. We therefore need to negotiate the best deal for Britain outside the EU 3. That deal is to become a member of the EFTA - access to the single market, freedom to conduct our own trade deals, freedom from CAP and CFP
The only stumbling block is free movement. But as we will have an open border with the EU in Ireland, that's never going to have an easy fix anyway.
If we campaign to stay in, we will be obliterated. And apparently saying that makes me racist...
Freedom to conduct trade deals implies leaving the customs union. This would lead to tariffs in trade with the EU as well as administrative burdens in respect of country of origin etc. A hard border in NI would also be difficult to avoid. Nissan must have been given assurances relating to the customs union I would have thought.
Not so. EFTA members of the EEA do not have barriers to trade with the EU but are not in the Customs Union and are able to conduct their own trade deals.
Strictly speaking EFTA members of the EEA don't have to pay tariffs on trade with the EU, but they do have to show compliance with content origination rules. I read somewhere that the cost of compliance was typically 3-4% of the goods, which is significant in a low margin business. This will be an issue for the Nissan deal for example. There are costs, which wouldn't apply if those EEA countries were in a customs union with the EU.
So be it. By the same logic currency variations can be more than 3-4% of the goods so surely we should be in the Single Currency?
Compliance costs are a cost worth paying to have our own trade deals.
Trump is not ahead where he needs to be ahead. Of course that could change, or the polls could be wrong, but on current polling he is behind.
Not with LA Times, he still leads with them other polls show it neck and neck, others give a clearer Hillary lead
The LA Times .... it's the way you tell em ....
Most pollsters had Remain ahead in EU ref in their final polls but it was the minority who had Leave ahead who were right, until the results are in nothing is certain
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
You want the UK to become part of a U.S.E.?
I would rather my country were playing its part in shaping the institutions of the future than standing aside and opting out.
We live in a world where almost nowhere on the planet is within not much more than a day's travel and where information can be transmitted by a variety of means instantaneously. With an economy dominated by supra-national corporations. Yet we have politicians and many voters who behave as if it still took a month on board ship to reach Australia.
The logical conclusion to your post is to back Brexit.
We need to embrace the whole globe, not one tiny fraction of it.
1. We will respect the decision to leave the European Union 2. We therefore need to negotiate the best deal for Britain outside the EU 3. That deal is to become a member of the EFTA - access to the single market, freedom to conduct our own trade deals, freedom from CAP and CFP
The only stumbling block is free movement.'
The only stumbling block is that free movement was the main reason voters rejected staying in the EU.
There is a big story that can be told on free movement - the large amount of net economic immigration we have been maintaining from outside the EU, the extra discretion EFTA members have in giving EU immigrants access to the welfare system (or not), the need for a certain level of (lower but still substantial) immigration to counter demographics and how that can be done whilst levelling off population rise. A soft-Brexit that fully engages with immigration concerns and their role in the Brexit votes is eminently possible, and the Labour party should be the people who are politically in a position to tell that story. I don't think that is going to happen, though.
Not a brick wall, needn't be a stumbling block, rather an opportunity to engage properly with the discussion in a way politics has failed to do over the last 20 years.
This is bad news for those who don't want a Hard Brexit.
The Tory Party and Parliament is losing a pro Single market not obsessed by immigration Leaver.
The Tories are losing a half-hearted MP, more interested in his profession than his constituents.
Yes, he does look like a part timer. "He attracted criticism from some for spending around 1,700 hours annually working as a barrister whilst serving as an MP. Phillips described his own parliamentary attendance record as "excellent", asserting his outside work "doesn’t affect the way in which I perform as an MP", and accused his critics of "envy" over his yearly £750,000 second job earnings.[9]"
I did a quick calculation and 1700 hours is 212 8 hour days. That is a lot more than just a job on the side.
A lawyer died and was met by St. Peter at the pearly gates. “There must be some mistake,” the lawyer complained. “Why is that?” asked St. Peter. “Because I’m only forty-two years old!” exclaimed the lawyer. “Oh? According to your billed hours, you are eighty-seven!
A lawyer died and went to heaven? What is this - some kind of joke?
The Devil and God were arguing over some technical matter. God grew impatient with the Devil's intransigence and in exasperation said 'OK, see you in Court.' The Devil raised an eyebrow. 'And where would you get a Lawyer?'
Trump is not ahead where he needs to be ahead. Of course that could change, or the polls could be wrong, but on current polling he is behind.
Not with LA Times, he still leads with them other polls show it neck and neck, others give a clearer Hillary lead
The LA Times .... it's the way you tell em ....
LA Times seems to reflect trends on other polls i.e. d/dt(LA Times) = d/dt(Other polls) since d/dt(constant bias) = 0.
Recently so. However the main problem with the tracker is that as a panel based survey it was critical they got their sample correct from the get go .... Ooooopppps
Looking at the crosstabs makes the old "We Ask America" polls look like the gold standard.
This is bad news for those who don't want a Hard Brexit.
The Tory Party and Parliament is losing a pro Single market not obsessed by immigration Leaver.
The Tories are losing a half-hearted MP, more interested in his profession than his constituents.
Yes, he does look like a part timer. "He attracted criticism from some for spending around 1,700 hours annually working as a barrister whilst serving as an MP. Phillips described his own parliamentary attendance record as "excellent", asserting his outside work "doesn’t affect the way in which I perform as an MP", and accused his critics of "envy" over his yearly £750,000 second job earnings.[9]"
I did a quick calculation and 1700 hours is 212 8 hour days. That is a lot more than just a job on the side.
A lawyer died and was met by St. Peter at the pearly gates. “There must be some mistake,” the lawyer complained. “Why is that?” asked St. Peter. “Because I’m only forty-two years old!” exclaimed the lawyer. “Oh? According to your billed hours, you are eighty-seven!
A lawyer died and went to heaven? What is this - some kind of joke?
The Devil and God were arguing over some technical matter. God grew impatient with the Devil's intransigence and in exasperation said 'OK, see you in Court.' The Devil raised an eyebrow. 'And where would you get a Lawyer?'
A rare PtP sighting! PfP was only yesterday lamenting your absence. Stick with us until Wednesday morning at any rate?
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
You want the UK to become part of a U.S.E.?
I would rather my country were playing its part in shaping the institutions of the future than standing aside and opting out.
We live in a world where almost nowhere on the planet is within not much more than a day's travel and where information can be transmitted by a variety of means instantaneously. With an economy dominated by supra-national corporations. Yet we have politicians and many voters who behave as if it still took a month on board ship to reach Australia.
The logical conclusion to your post is to back Brexit.
We need to embrace the whole globe, not one tiny fraction of it.
This nonsense about embracing the whole globe is one of the most egregious dishonesties of the Brexit campaign.
The most successful exporter on the planet is Germany, right at the heart of the EU.
And many of the Brexit campaigners and many of their supporters cannot bring themselves to embrace the nearest parts of the globe, let alone the parts further away.
There is nothing in leaving the EU that will make us any more able to 'embrace the world' than we were so able by playing our role as part of the European family of nations.
1. We will respect the decision to leave the European Union 2. We therefore need to negotiate the best deal for Britain outside the EU 3. That deal is to become a member of the EFTA - access to the single market, freedom to conduct our own trade deals, freedom from CAP and CFP
The only stumbling block is free movement. But as we will have an open border with the EU in Ireland, that's never going to have an easy fix anyway.
If we campaign to stay in, we will be obliterated. And apparently saying that makes me racist...
Freedom to conduct trade deals implies leaving the customs union. This would lead to tariffs in trade with the EU as well as administrative burdens in respect of country of origin etc. A hard border in NI would also be difficult to avoid. Nissan must have been given assurances relating to the customs union I would have thought.
Not so. EFTA members of the EEA do not have barriers to trade with the EU but are not in the Customs Union and are able to conduct their own trade deals.
Strictly speaking EFTA members of the EEA don't have to pay tariffs on trade with the EU, but they do have to show compliance with content origination rules. I read somewhere that the cost of compliance was typically 3-4% of the goods, which is significant in a low margin business. This will be an issue for the Nissan deal for example. There are costs, which wouldn't apply if those EEA countries were in a customs union with the EU.
Rather misleading. Since we are already in the EU we have already met the compliance costs. Nissan already has to match those standards as a company trading within the EEA - albeit from an EU rather than an EFTA country. The additional costs if any would be tiny and certainly not the 3-4% you quote.
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
You do realise that titanic is an adjective don't you?
Of course, but its ancient usage sunk along with the ship, as Boris well knows.
This is bad news for those who don't want a Hard Brexit.
The Tory Party and Parliament is losing a pro Single market not obsessed by immigration Leaver.
The Tories are losing a half-hearted MP, more interested in his profession than his constituents.
Yes, he does look like a part timer. "He attracted criticism from some for spending around 1,700 hours annually working as a barrister whilst serving as an MP. Phillips described his own parliamentary attendance record as "excellent", asserting his outside work "doesn’t affect the way in which I perform as an MP", and accused his critics of "envy" over his yearly £750,000 second job earnings.[9]"
I did a quick calculation and 1700 hours is 212 8 hour days. That is a lot more than just a job on the side.
A lawyer died and was met by St. Peter at the pearly gates. “There must be some mistake,” the lawyer complained. “Why is that?” asked St. Peter. “Because I’m only forty-two years old!” exclaimed the lawyer. “Oh? According to your billed hours, you are eighty-seven!
Lawyer turned up at heaven and was given the guided tour. Harps, clouds, singing, the full works. Asked if he could visit Hell before making his decision on where to go - wanted to assess the options.
St Peter was slightly surprised, but said ok: the lawyer had a tour next day. Beautiful golf course; the sun was shining and a very enjoyable evening in the club house.
The next day St. Peter asked him to make his choice - and the lawyer selected Hell (much to St. Peter's surprise).
He went down to Hell - and it was a burning, noisome wasteland. Outraged, he turned to the Devil and complained.
"Ah", the Devil said. "Yesterday you were a prospect. Today you're a client"
Trump is not ahead where he needs to be ahead. Of course that could change, or the polls could be wrong, but on current polling he is behind.
Not with LA Times, he still leads with them other polls show it neck and neck, others give a clearer Hillary lead
The LA Times .... it's the way you tell em ....
Most pollsters had Remain ahead in EU ref in their final polls but it was the minority who had Leave ahead who were right, until the results are in nothing is certain
Quite what that comment has to do with the price of Ayrshire turnips futures I'm not quite sure but I dare say you and President of the Peoples Front for the Liberation of Judea know the answer and accordingly I bow to your superior knowledge in these comparative fields.
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
You want the UK to become part of a U.S.E.?
I would rather my country were playing its part in shaping the institutions of the future than standing aside and opting out.
We live in a world where almost nowhere on the planet is within not much more than a day's travel and where information can be transmitted by a variety of means instantaneously. With an economy dominated by supra-national corporations. Yet we have politicians and many voters who behave as if it still took a month on board ship to reach Australia.
Currently your country plays almost no part in shaping the institutions of the future as they have ceded that right to the EU. As such they are at best holding 1/28th of a vote at most of the institutions which shape the rules and regulations that govern world trade. Leaving the EU and retaking those seats ourselves gives us more rather than less influence.
General Election. TMay can get clear mandate for A50. Labour can get rid of Corbyn.
(a) Yes (b) How?
He could get lost as he wanders away from Islington to places he didn't even know existed....like Lincolnshire for instance.
BTW....can someone please tell me if Lincolnshire has produced anyone of any note in the whole history of our great nation?
Margaret Thatcher.
Isaac Newton Tennyson John Wesley
Tennyson kept his Lincolnshire accent, as demonstrated in this lofi Edison recording You assume the greats must have been declaiming in received pronunciation, but accents were a lot more diverse in those pre-homogenised days.
George Boole (Boolean Algebra) John Harrison (Clockmaker)
After that you are down to the 'Famous Belgians" category. (The most famous of which is probably a fictional detective).
This is bad news for those who don't want a Hard Brexit.
The Tory Party and Parliament is losing a pro Single market not obsessed by immigration Leaver.
The Tories are losing a half-hearted MP, more interested in his profession than his constituents.
Yes, he does look like a part timer. "He attracted criticism from some for spending around 1,700 hours annually working as a barrister whilst serving as an MP. Phillips described his own parliamentary attendance record as "excellent", asserting his outside work "doesn’t affect the way in which I perform as an MP", and accused his critics of "envy" over his yearly £750,000 second job earnings.[9]"
I did a quick calculation and 1700 hours is 212 8 hour days. That is a lot more than just a job on the side.
A lawyer died and was met by St. Peter at the pearly gates. “There must be some mistake,” the lawyer complained. “Why is that?” asked St. Peter. “Because I’m only forty-two years old!” exclaimed the lawyer. “Oh? According to your billed hours, you are eighty-seven!
A lawyer died and went to heaven? What is this - some kind of joke?
The Devil and God were arguing over some technical matter. God grew impatient with the Devil's intransigence and in exasperation said 'OK, see you in Court.' The Devil raised an eyebrow. 'And where would you get a Lawyer?'
A rare PtP sighting! PfP was only yesterday lamenting your absence. Stick with us until Wednesday morning at any rate?
Yes, I'll be lurking, TP, as I have been for some time.
Btw, all is well here, just been doing other things. I understand you have too, or at least Mrs TP has. Congratulations on the family addition.
The Devil and God were arguing over some technical matter. God grew impatient with the Devil's intransigence and in exasperation said 'OK, see you in Court.' The Devil raised an eyebrow. 'And where would you get a Lawyer?'
1. We will respect the decision to leave the European Union 2. We therefore need to negotiate the best deal for Britain outside the EU 3. That deal is to become a member of the EFTA - access to the single market, freedom to conduct our own trade deals, freedom from CAP and CFP
The only stumbling block is free movement. But as we will have an open border with the EU in Ireland, that's never going to have an easy fix anyway.
If we campaign to stay in, we will be obliterated. And apparently saying that makes me racist...
Freedom to conduct trade deals implies leaving the customs union. This would lead to tariffs in trade with the EU as well as administrative burdens in respect of country of origin etc. A hard border in NI would also be difficult to avoid. Nissan must have been given assurances relating to the customs union I would have thought.
Not so. EFTA members of the EEA do not have barriers to trade with the EU but are not in the Customs Union and are able to conduct their own trade deals.
Strictly speaking EFTA members of the EEA don't have to pay tariffs on trade with the EU, but they do have to show compliance with content origination rules. I read somewhere that the cost of compliance was typically 3-4% of the goods, which is significant in a low margin business. This will be an issue for the Nissan deal for example. There are costs, which wouldn't apply if those EEA countries were in a customs union with the EU.
So be it. By the same logic currency variations can be more than 3-4% of the goods so surely we should be in the Single Currency?
Compliance costs are a cost worth paying to have our own trade deals.
Are they? That's presented as an article of faith. Unlike matters of principle, suchas running our own affairs or control over immigration, trade deals seem to me an issue entirely of where our advantage lies. Leaving aside the potential loss of our BY FAR most lucrative trade arrangement, with the EU, why should our trading arrangements with third countries be better too? Who, specifically, is going to give us better deals than what have at the moment? In what specific ways will they be better?
This is bad news for those who don't want a Hard Brexit.
The Tory Party and Parliament is losing a pro Single market not obsessed by immigration Leaver.
The Tories are losing a half-hearted MP, more interested in his profession than his constituents.
Yes, he does look like a part timer. "He attracted criticism from some for spending around 1,700 hours annually working as a barrister whilst serving as an MP. Phillips described his own parliamentary attendance record as "excellent", asserting his outside work "doesn’t affect the way in which I perform as an MP", and accused his critics of "envy" over his yearly £750,000 second job earnings.[9]"
I did a quick calculation and 1700 hours is 212 8 hour days. That is a lot more than just a job on the side.
A lawyer died and was met by St. Peter at the pearly gates. “There must be some mistake,” the lawyer complained. “Why is that?” asked St. Peter. “Because I’m only forty-two years old!” exclaimed the lawyer. “Oh? According to your billed hours, you are eighty-seven!
A lawyer died and went to heaven? What is this - some kind of joke?
The Devil and God were arguing over some technical matter. God grew impatient with the Devil's intransigence and in exasperation said 'OK, see you in Court.' The Devil raised an eyebrow. 'And where would you get a Lawyer?'
A rare PtP sighting! PfP was only yesterday lamenting your absence. Stick with us until Wednesday morning at any rate?
Yes, I'll be lurking, TP, as I have been for some time.
Btw, all is well here, just been doing other things. I understand you have too, or at least Mrs TP has. Congratulations on the family addition.
Thank you! Bexit went very smoothly and she is now looking forward to engaging with the wider world.
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
You want the UK to become part of a U.S.E.?
I would rather my country were playing its part in shaping the institutions of the future than standing aside and opting out.
We live in a world where almost nowhere on the planet is within not much more than a day's travel and where information can be transmitted by a variety of means instantaneously. With an economy dominated by supra-national corporations. Yet we have politicians and many voters who behave as if it still took a month on board ship to reach Australia.
Currently your country plays almost no part in shaping the institutions of the future as they have ceded that right to the EU. As such they are at best holding 1/28th of a vote at most of the institutions which shape the rules and regulations that govern world trade. Leaving the EU and retaking those seats ourselves gives us more rather than less influence.
Misguided sentiments, as history will, in time, come to record.
Rather misleading. Since we are already in the EU we have already met the compliance costs. Nissan already has to match those standards as a company trading within the EEA - albeit from an EU rather than an EFTA country. The additional costs if any would be tiny and certainly not the 3-4% you quote.
We could use a Swiss arrangement for re-exported goods where we collect the CET and pass it along to the EU. I'll use Honda as an example:
Honda UK imports an engine block from Japan worth $2500, the UK now has a common tariff of 5% with non-MFN countries so the government collects $125 per unit imported. Honda UK imports 20,000 engine blocks per month from Japan which yields $2.5m. Honda UK then exports 4,000 cars per month to the EU. For those 4,000 it would pay an additional $125 per unit as the EU CET is 10%, so $500k. The government gives the EU the full $1m CET rate for vehicles re-exported to the EU, but the vehicles are not subject to customs controls at the EU border in Rotterdam.
Honda UK would currently pay $5m per month for the CET anyway so they save $2m overall, we set a lower goods tariff which is more suitable for our economy and the EU still collects "their" share of the CET for re-exported goods without having to enforce customs controls on British goods.
1. We will respect the decision to leave the European Union 2. We therefore need to negotiate the best deal for Britain outside the EU 3. That deal is to become a member of the EFTA - access to the single market, freedom to conduct our own trade deals, freedom from CAP and CFP
The only stumbling block is free movement. But as we will have an open border with the EU in Ireland, that's never going to have an easy fix anyway.
If we campaign to stay in, we will be obliterated. And apparently saying that makes me racist...
Freedom to conduct trade deals implies leaving the customs union. This would lead to tariffs in trade with the EU as well as administrative burdens in respect of country of origin etc. A hard border in NI would also be difficult to avoid. Nissan must have been given assurances relating to the customs union I would have thought.
Not so. EFTA members of the EEA do not have barriers to trade with the EU but are not in the Customs Union and are able to conduct their own trade deals.
Strictly speaking EFTA members of the EEA don't have to pay tariffs on trade with the EU, but they do have to show compliance with content origination rules. I read somewhere that the cost of compliance was typically 3-4% of the goods, which is significant in a low margin business. This will be an issue for the Nissan deal for example. There are costs, which wouldn't apply if those EEA countries were in a customs union with the EU.
Rather misleading. Since we are already in the EU we have already met the compliance costs. Nissan already has to match those standards as a company trading within the EEA - albeit from an EU rather than an EFTA country. The additional costs if any would be tiny and certainly not the 3-4% you quote.
The costs are in doing the paper work to demonstrate the actual goods originate within the EEA to the threshold specified for that product. That doesn't just apply to the value added in Sunderland but to the components that are assembled there as well. if you don't meet those thresholds you will be liable for duties on the entire value of the car as it crosses into the EU customs zone.
Wow, Tories finally developing a real base in rural north east and south Scotland now, as Labour lose one. Go Ruth!
Twitter Philip Sim @BBCPhilipSim 9m9 minutes ago One Tory gain from the SNP, one technical gain from Lib Dems (although former co-leader Martin Kitts-Hayes was sitting as an independent)
Ruth is bringing the Scottish Tories off life support.
She'd be wasted at Westminster.
She's also a soft Leaver, so would have no chance of being anything other than a very backbench MP.
Fear not, not for the first time Ruth has enthusiastically embraced the new reality. The SCons are uniformly pro Brexit now (or pro whatever vague interpretation of Brexit May is making on any given day). Last night's 2 by-elections adjoined Scotland's most Brexit friendly region, which may not be entirely unconnected to the results.
Oh I think the results have a lot more do with the increasingly unpopular domestic decisions and record of the SNP Government. Hiking up the council tax for higher bands, then skimming off the extra revenue raised to use centrally has gone down like a bucket of cold sick up here in Aberdeenshire!
What's your prediction for the Aberdeen & Aberdeenshire councils in next year's election?
Genuinely believe the SNP are going to take an electoral hit in these long over due Scottish Local elections. And because they will be far more focussed on SNP Gov's increasingly unpopular domestic record in North East rather than Indy or Brexit. Scottish voters are very canny when it comes to using these voting systems IF they want to send an unpopular incumbent Government a message.
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
You want the UK to become part of a U.S.E.?
I would rather my country were playing its part in shaping the institutions of the future than standing aside and opting out.
We live in a world where almost nowhere on the planet is within not much more than a day's travel and where information can be transmitted by a variety of means instantaneously. With an economy dominated by supra-national corporations. Yet we have politicians and many voters who behave as if it still took a month on board ship to reach Australia.
The logical conclusion to your post is to back Brexit.
We need to embrace the whole globe, not one tiny fraction of it.
This nonsense about embracing the whole globe is one of the most egregious dishonesties of the Brexit campaign.
The most successful exporter on the planet is Germany, right at the heart of the EU.
And many of the Brexit campaigners and many of their supporters cannot bring themselves to embrace the nearest parts of the globe, let alone the parts further away.
There is nothing in leaving the EU that will make us any more able to 'embrace the world' than we were so able by playing our role as part of the European family of nations.
Germany is successful in large part because it has managed to maintain an artificially low currency to the detriment of all the other users. If it had not been able to let other countries take the burden whilst it reaped the benefits it would be a very different matter.
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
You want the UK to become part of a U.S.E.?
I would rather my country were playing its part in shaping the institutions of the future than standing aside and opting out.
We live in a world where almost nowhere on the planet is within not much more than a day's travel and where information can be transmitted by a variety of means instantaneously. With an economy dominated by supra-national corporations. Yet we have politicians and many voters who behave as if it still took a month on board ship to reach Australia.
The logical conclusion to your post is to back Brexit.
We need to embrace the whole globe, not one tiny fraction of it.
This nonsense about embracing the whole globe is one of the most egregious dishonesties of the Brexit campaign.
The most successful exporter on the planet is Germany, right at the heart of the EU.
And many of the Brexit campaigners and many of their supporters cannot bring themselves to embrace the nearest parts of the globe, let alone the parts further away.
There is nothing in leaving the EU that will make us any more able to 'embrace the world' than we were so able by playing our role as part of the European family of nations.
Except the fact we will be able to negotiate our own trade deals that benefit us specifically rather than being scuppered by other countries.
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
You want the UK to become part of a U.S.E.?
I would rather my country were playing its part in shaping the institutions of the future than standing aside and opting out.
We live in a world where almost nowhere on the planet is within not much more than a day's travel and where information can be transmitted by a variety of means instantaneously. With an economy dominated by supra-national corporations. Yet we have politicians and many voters who behave as if it still took a month on board ship to reach Australia.
The logical conclusion to your post is to back Brexit.
We need to embrace the whole globe, not one tiny fraction of it.
This nonsense about embracing the whole globe is one of the most egregious dishonesties of the Brexit campaign.
The most successful exporter on the planet is Germany, right at the heart of the EU.
And many of the Brexit campaigners and many of their supporters cannot bring themselves to embrace the nearest parts of the globe, let alone the parts further away.
There is nothing in leaving the EU that will make us any more able to 'embrace the world' than we were so able by playing our role as part of the European family of nations.
Germany is successful in large part because it has managed to maintain an artificially low currency to the detriment of all the other users. If it had not been able to let other countries take the burden whilst it reaped the benefits it would be a very different matter.
1. We will respect the decision to leave the European Union 2. We therefore need to negotiate the best deal for Britain outside the EU 3. That deal is to become a member of the EFTA - access to the single market, freedom to conduct our own trade deals, freedom from CAP and CFP
The only stumbling block is free movement. But as we will have an open border with the EU in Ireland, that's never going to have an easy fix anyway.
If we campaign to stay in, we will be obliterated. And apparently saying that makes me racist...
Freedom to conduct trade deals implies leaving the customs union. This would lead to tariffs in trade with the EU as well as administrative burdens in respect of country of origin etc. A hard border in NI would also be difficult to avoid. Nissan must have been given assurances relating to the customs union I would have thought.
Not so. EFTA members of the EEA do not have barriers to trade with the EU but are not in the Customs Union and are able to conduct their own trade deals.
Strictly speaking EFTA members of the EEA don't have to pay tariffs on trade with the EU, but they do have to show compliance with content origination rules. I read somewhere that the cost of compliance was typically 3-4% of the goods, which is significant in a low margin business. This will be an issue for the Nissan deal for example. There are costs, which wouldn't apply if those EEA countries were in a customs union with the EU.
Rather misleading. Since we are already in the EU we have already met the compliance costs. Nissan already has to match those standards as a company trading within the EEA - albeit from an EU rather than an EFTA country. The additional costs if any would be tiny and certainly not the 3-4% you quote.
The costs are in doing the paper work to demonstrate the actual goods originate within the EEA to the threshold specified for that product. That doesn't just apply to the value added in Sunderland but to the components that are assembled there as well. if you don't meet those thresholds you will be liable for duties on the entire value of the car as it crosses into the EU customs zone.
Actually, the importer is liable for duties, remember that. The Swiss currently act as an EU importer for goods which are re-exported to the EU. I don't see why we couldn't also adopt that arrangement.
1. We will respect the decision to leave the European Union 2. We therefore need to negotiate the best deal for Britain outside the EU 3. That deal is to become a member of the EFTA - access to the single market, freedom to conduct our own trade deals, freedom from CAP and CFP
The only stumbling block is free movement. But as we will have an open border with the EU in Ireland, that's never going to have an easy fix anyway.
If we campaign to stay in, we will be obliterated. And apparently saying that makes me racist...
Freedom to conduct trade deals implies leaving the customs union. This would lead to tariffs in trade with the EU as well as administrative burdens in respect of country of origin etc. A hard border in NI would also be difficult to avoid. Nissan must have been given assurances relating to the customs union I would have thought.
Not so. EFTA members of the EEA do not have barriers to trade with the EU but are not in the Customs Union and are able to conduct their own trade deals.
Strictly speaking EFTA members of the EEA don't have to pay tariffs on trade with the EU, but they do have to show compliance with content origination rules. I read somewhere that the cost of compliance was typically 3-4% of the goods, which is significant in a low margin business. This will be an issue for the Nissan deal for example. There are costs, which wouldn't apply if those EEA countries were in a customs union with the EU.
Rather misleading. Since we are already in the EU we have already met the compliance costs. Nissan already has to match those standards as a company trading within the EEA - albeit from an EU rather than an EFTA country. The additional costs if any would be tiny and certainly not the 3-4% you quote.
The costs are in doing the paper work to demonstrate the actual goods originate within the EEA to the threshold specified for that product. That doesn't just apply to the value added in Sunderland but to the components that are assembled there as well. if you don't meet those thresholds you will be liable for duties on the entire value of the car as it crosses into the EU customs zone.
Which already applies if those components are coming from outside the EU and is not an issue if they are coming from inside the EU.
Right - Nevada. Should early voting really be trumping [sic] the polls to this extent? The polls include the early voters! 9/4 on the Republicans (SkyBet) looks big to my mind.
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
You want the UK to become part of a U.S.E.?
I would rather my country were playing its part in shaping the institutions of the future than standing aside and opting out.
We live in a world where almost nowhere on the planet is within not much more than a day's travel and where information can be transmitted by a variety of means instantaneously. With an economy dominated by supra-national corporations. Yet we have politicians and many voters who behave as if it still took a month on board ship to reach Australia.
The logical conclusion to your post is to back Brexit.
We need to embrace the whole globe, not one tiny fraction of it.
This nonsense about embracing the whole globe is one of the most egregious dishonesties of the Brexit campaign.
The most successful exporter on the planet is Germany, right at the heart of the EU.
And many of the Brexit campaigners and many of their supporters cannot bring themselves to embrace the nearest parts of the globe, let alone the parts further away.
There is nothing in leaving the EU that will make us any more able to 'embrace the world' than we were so able by playing our role as part of the European family of nations.
Except the fact we will be able to negotiate our own trade deals that benefit us specifically rather than being scuppered by other countries.
Mike, Your arithmetic has gone awry! Zac's resignation reduced the Tory majority to 11 - it would only become 10 in the event of the seat being lost. The latest resignation reduces the majority to 10 - and only becomes 8 if both seats are lost.
This nonsense about embracing the whole globe is one of the most egregious dishonesties of the Brexit campaign.
The most successful exporter on the planet is Germany, right at the heart of the EU.
And many of the Brexit campaigners and many of their supporters cannot bring themselves to embrace the nearest parts of the globe, let alone the parts further away.
There is nothing in leaving the EU that will make us any more able to 'embrace the world' than we were so able by playing our role as part of the European family of nations.
Germany has been able to shape the EU, the Single Currency and the EU's trade deals to maximise their own advantages. They have an artificially low currency (something people keep whining we are now getting too) and agreements centred on their areas of comparative advantage.
If the EU's trade deals were centred upon our areas of advantage (eg putting free trade in financial services at the heart of deals) then we could be doing better too. But they're not. Out the EU we can embrace the whole world with our own terms.
We keep hearing how important the financial passport is to London but we export nearly as much in finance to the USA than we do the entire EU put together. The EU has no intentions of signing a financial passport deal with the USA - how much would one be worth to us if we could negotiate that?
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
You want the UK to become part of a U.S.E.?
I would rather my country were playing its part in shaping the institutions of the future than standing aside and opting out.
We live in a world where almost nowhere on the planet is within not much more than a day's travel and where information can be transmitted by a variety of means instantaneously. With an economy dominated by supra-national corporations. Yet we have politicians and many voters who behave as if it still took a month on board ship to reach Australia.
Currently your country plays almost no part in shaping the institutions of the future as they have ceded that right to the EU. As such they are at best holding 1/28th of a vote at most of the institutions which shape the rules and regulations that govern world trade. Leaving the EU and retaking those seats ourselves gives us more rather than less influence.
Misguided sentiments, as history will, in time, come to record.
Right - Nevada. Should early voting really be trumping [sic] the polls to this extent? The polls include the early voters! 9/4 on the Republicans (SkyBet) looks big to my mind.
The polls were out last time, and last time the Dems early voting advantage in Clark County of 55,000.00 meant they won on early votes basically. This year, they have 60,000.00 so far in Clark County.
You are basically counting on Trumps non-existent GOTV operation to do better this year than Romney's did last time in a heavily Hispanic state with a strong Dem GOTV built by Harry Reid. It's not impossible, but there is a reason NV isn't looking good for Trump at the mo
Which already applies if those components are coming from outside the EU and is not an issue if they are coming from inside the EU.
That's what I really don't think some people appreciate, anything we import from outside the EU at the moment is charged at 10% anyway. If we lowered our CET to 5% and had a tariff free agreement with the EU the best way would be to act as collection agents for the EU for any re-exported goods. That way domestic importers still benefit from lower tariffs and goods prices, UK goods aren't subject to customs controls at the EU border and there won't be any chance of double tariffs being applied if point of origin thresholds aren't met.
Mike, Your arithmetic has gone awry! Zac's resignation reduced the Tory majority to 11 - it would only become 10 in the event of the seat being lost. The latest resignation reduces the majority to 10 - and only becomes 8 if both seats are lost.
Give it a couple of weeks and two more Tory MPs will resign.
The legal profession is highly politicised because they made it so.
Anybody who has read anything about Phil Shiner and the disgusting pursuit of our troops realises that some lawyers have an agenda that is nothing to do with the interpretation of the law.
Is that the case here? who knows, but the press are perfectly at liberty to speculate upon it.
Mike, Your arithmetic has gone awry! Zac's resignation reduced the Tory majority to 11 - it would only become 10 in the event of the seat being lost. The latest resignation reduces the majority to 10 - and only becomes 8 if both seats are lost.
Right - Nevada. Should early voting really be trumping [sic] the polls to this extent? The polls include the early voters! 9/4 on the Republicans (SkyBet) looks big to my mind.
The polls were out last time, and last time the Dems early voting advantage in Clark County of 55,000.00 meant they won on early votes basically. This year, they have 60,000.00 so far in Clark County.
You are basically counting on Trumps non-existent GOTV operation to do better this year than Romney's did last time in a heavily Hispanic state with a strong Dem GOTV built by Harry Reid. It's not impossible, but there is a reason NV isn't looking good for Trump at the mo
Sure, but early votes are only an advantage if they wouldn't have voted on the day anyway. Of course, many wouldn't. But I think this media fixation with early voting numbers is mostly because it's something tangible to report on as opposed to polls and speculation.
justin124 said: » show previous quotes ' Absolutely correct! The final two sentences are spot on. I would simply add that there is no requirement for Corbyn to bow to any plans May have for an election - particularly when his party is so far adrift in the polls.'
Tissue Price said: 'You keep saying this. But the no confidence route around the FTPA will not make Corbyn Prime Minister, because no alternative government can be formed. And given this, Labour might as well vote for the GE under the FTPA. '
I don't think the constitutional position is anything like as clear as you imply.I note that David Herdson referred to the possibility of Corbyn becoming PM in his article today - and other commentators have expressed a similar view. At the very least , forcing May to table a No Confidence Vote would delay any election by 2/3 weeks.
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
Boris - as the principal culprit - knows this; it doesn't matter whether his 'Titanic' reference was conscious or sub-conscious, it shows that he knows, deep down, how this will probably end.
You want the UK to become part of a U.S.E.?
I would rather my country were playing its part in shaping the institutions of the future than standing aside and opting out.
We live in a world where almost nowhere on the planet is within not much more than a day's travel and where information can be transmitted by a variety of means instantaneously. With an economy dominated by supra-national corporations. Yet we have politicians and many voters who behave as if it still took a month on board ship to reach Australia.
The logical conclusion to your post is to back Brexit.
We need to embrace the whole globe, not one tiny fraction of it.
This nonsense about embracing the whole globe is one of the most egregious dishonesties of the Brexit campaign.
The most successful exporter on the planet is Germany, right at the heart of the EU.
And many of the Brexit campaigners and many of their supporters cannot bring themselves to embrace the nearest parts of the globe, let alone the parts further away.
There is nothing in leaving the EU that will make us any more able to 'embrace the world' than we were so able by playing our role as part of the European family of nations.
Except the fact we will be able to negotiate our own trade deals that benefit us specifically rather than being scuppered by other countries.
Good luck with that!
Yes. As a member of the EU, we can demand approximately what we want and stand a good chance of getting it; outside the EU we can demand exactly what we want and stand very little chance of getting it.
If Russia has built up as powerful an espionage and propaganda presence in the US as Kurt Eichenwald says in today's piece in Newsweek, where was the FBI? Eichenwald doesn't even mention the domestic security agency that is tasked with protecting the US against such activities by foreign powers. That agency appears to be helping Trump. Game over?
Not quite true: The number of people 'unemployed' fell by 150000 - but the number of people who hold jobs fell by 185,000 and the number of people who are not in the labour force increased by 425,000.
Yes. As a member of the EU, we can demand approximately what we want and stand a good chance of getting it; outside the EU we can demand exactly what we want and stand very little chance of getting it.
That's based on what? Historically the EU has sacrificed services trade and investment freedom in favour of goods tariff reductions. That's unfavourable to the UK.
You assume the Cons will want to kick this off ASAP rather than have it get too close to Christmas.
He said: "I and many others did not exercise our vote in the referendum so as to restore the sovereignty of this parliament only to see what we regarded as the tyranny of the European Union replaced by that of a government that apparently wishes to ignore the views of the house on the most important issue facing the nation."
justin124 said: » show previous quotes ' Absolutely correct! The final two sentences are spot on. I would simply add that there is no requirement for Corbyn to bow to any plans May have for an election - particularly when his party is so far adrift in the polls.'
Tissue Price said: 'You keep saying this. But the no confidence route around the FTPA will not make Corbyn Prime Minister, because no alternative government can be formed. And given this, Labour might as well vote for the GE under the FTPA. '
I don't think the constitutional position is anything like as clear as you imply.I note that David Herdson referred to the possibility of Corbyn becoming PM in his article today - and other commentators have expressed a similar view. At the very least , forcing May to table a No Confidence Vote would delay any election by 2/3 weeks.
There is no provision under our Constitution for HM appointing a PM who cannot command the House. We shall see...
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
You want the UK to become part of a U.S.E.?
I would rather my country were playing its part in shaping the institutions of the future than standing aside and opting out.
The logical conclusion to your post is to back Brexit.
We need to embrace the whole globe, not one tiny fraction of it.
This nonsense about embracing the whole globe is one of the most egregious dishonesties of the Brexit campaign.
The most successful exporter on the planet is Germany, right at the heart of the EU.
And many of the Brexit campaigners and many of their supporters cannot bring themselves to embrace the nearest parts of the globe, let alone the parts further away.
There is nothing in leaving the EU that will make us any more able to 'embrace the world' than we were so able by playing our role as part of the European family of nations.
Except the fact we will be able to negotiate our own trade deals that benefit us specifically rather than being scuppered by other countries.
The global citizen thing throws up another question:
Dump trade deal with major developed bloc and all their associated deals.
Make deals increasingly with emerging economies, BRIC, MINT &c.
The risk is of UK business being forced to deal increasingly with 8 countries and more who are, yes, growing, but have problems of transparency and accountability almost across the board, to the exclusion of stable developed economies where the barriers have gone up.
What does this then do to the transparency, accountability and level of legal compliance of UK companies?
The Devil and God were arguing over some technical matter. God grew impatient with the Devil's intransigence and in exasperation said 'OK, see you in Court.' The Devil raised an eyebrow. 'And where would you get a Lawyer?'
You shameless hussy .... Welcome back !! ....
The Devil/Lawyer joke I like is the one where the Devil promises a young trainee solicitor a glittering legal career, leading to a partnership in a prestigious firm, a £1m a year salary, and eventually a knighthood. All he wants in return is his soul, and the souls of his wife and child.
So, this trainee solicitor is nobody's fool. He thinks long and hard about this offer, before saying to the Devil "Okay, what's the catch?"
This just seems a bit weird. More to this than meets the eye?
He did threaten to resign once before, if the referendum didn't happen.
The shame of the people who conspired to make this situation inevitable is something they'll all have to live with.
Indeed.
Whilst I, like almost everyone, recognise that the die is now cast, there is little doubt in my mind that the UK will come in time to regret its decision to step away from the EU and that the bunch of cynical opportunists and extremists that have led us to this pass surely won't be around when the accountability for the consequences is going begging.
You want the UK to become part of a U.S.E.?
I would rather my country were playing its part in shaping the institutions of the future than standing aside and opting out.
The logical conclusion to your post is to back Brexit.
We need to embrace the whole globe, not one tiny fraction of it.
This nonsense about embracing the whole globe is one of the most egregious dishonesties of the Brexit campaign.
The most successful exporter on the planet is Germany, right at the heart of the EU.
And many of the Brexit campaigners and many of their supporters cannot bring themselves to embrace the nearest parts of the globe, let alone the parts further away.
There is nothing in leaving the EU that will make us any more able to 'embrace the world' than we were so able by playing our role as part of the European family of nations.
Except the fact we will be able to negotiate our own trade deals that benefit us specifically rather than being scuppered by other countries.
The global citizen thing throws up another question:
Dump trade deal with major developed bloc and all their associated deals.
Make deals increasingly with emerging economies, BRIC, MINT &c.
The risk is of UK business being forced to deal increasingly with 8 countries and more who are, yes, growing, but have problems of transparency and accountability almost across the board, to the exclusion of stable developed economies where the barriers have gone up.
What does this then do to the transparency, accountability and level of legal compliance of UK companies?
Why would we put up trade barriers with developed nations? No one has suggested we exclude them. In fact the first major trade deal will probably be with Australia.
Yes. As a member of the EU, we can demand approximately what we want and stand a good chance of getting it; outside the EU we can demand exactly what we want and stand very little chance of getting it.
That's based on what? Historically the EU has sacrificed services trade and investment freedom in favour of goods tariff reductions. That's unfavourable to the UK.
Simple logic. As part of a large block, we are in a much better position to make favourable deals with third countries, even if they are not exactly the deals we'd aim for. On our own, we can aim for exactly the deals we want, but have less firepower to achieve them.
justin124 said: » show previous quotes ' Absolutely correct! The final two sentences are spot on. I would simply add that there is no requirement for Corbyn to bow to any plans May have for an election - particularly when his party is so far adrift in the polls.'
Tissue Price said: 'You keep saying this. But the no confidence route around the FTPA will not make Corbyn Prime Minister, because no alternative government can be formed. And given this, Labour might as well vote for the GE under the FTPA. '
I don't think the constitutional position is anything like as clear as you imply.I note that David Herdson referred to the possibility of Corbyn becoming PM in his article today - and other commentators have expressed a similar view. At the very least , forcing May to table a No Confidence Vote would delay any election by 2/3 weeks.
There is no provision under our Constitution for HM appointing a PM who cannot command the House. We shall see...
If the Government 'resigns' HM has to appoint another PM - as did Edward VII in December 1905 when he appointed Campbell-Bannerman to succeed Balfour.
Yes. As a member of the EU, we can demand approximately what we want and stand a good chance of getting it; outside the EU we can demand exactly what we want and stand very little chance of getting it.
That's based on what? Historically the EU has sacrificed services trade and investment freedom in favour of goods tariff reductions. That's unfavourable to the UK.
Not really. All trade agreements tend to concentrate on goods. That's because they are easier to get agreement on.
The idea that the UK can buck this historic trend is pure speculation - and probably wishful thinking. Are we, for example, really going into enter into a radical free-trade agreement in services with the US? That would mean opening up our healthcare sector to proper US competition, and vice versa. Whilst I personally would think that's a great idea, and I expect you would too, in practice the politics of it would be massively difficult.
That's bold and I think it might pay off. She's the sort of Kipper that would go down well in a moderate Tory seat (if she avoids some of her rhetoric of the past few days.)
The legal profession is highly politicised because they made it so.
Anybody who has read anything about Phil Shiner and the disgusting pursuit of our troops realises that some lawyers have an agenda that is nothing to do with the interpretation of the law.
Is that the case here? who knows, but the press are perfectly at liberty to speculate upon it.
If Russia has built up as powerful an espionage and propaganda presence in the US as Kurt Eichenwald says in today's piece in Newsweek, where was the FBI? Eichenwald doesn't even mention the domestic security agency that is tasked with protecting the US against such activities by foreign powers. That agency appears to be helping Trump. Game over?
The FBI are trying their upmost to safeguard national security, but there were those within the state department who insisted on using private servers which leak like sieves and make the task harder.
Yes. As a member of the EU, we can demand approximately what we want and stand a good chance of getting it; outside the EU we can demand exactly what we want and stand very little chance of getting it.
That's based on what? Historically the EU has sacrificed services trade and investment freedom in favour of goods tariff reductions. That's unfavourable to the UK.
Simple logic. As part of a large block, we are in a much better position to make favourable deals with third countries, even if they are not exactly the deals we'd aim for. On our own, we can aim for exactly the deals we want, but have less firepower to achieve them.
Less firepower is still $2.4tn GDP. You might not want to hear it but the UK is still very powerful in its own right. As one voice in 29 we often saw favourable trade deals turn into less favourable trade deals, as one voice in two I think that's less likely. Unless we're talking about doing deals with China and the US (which frankly aren't that interesting) then we are going to be talking to most countries on an even or better footing. The biggest issue isn't out non-EU trade, it is getting a workable deal with the EU which we can build on.
That's bold and I think it might pay off. She's the sort of Kipper that would go down well in a moderate Tory seat (if she avoids some of her rhetoric of the past few days.)
Yes. As a member of the EU, we can demand approximately what we want and stand a good chance of getting it; outside the EU we can demand exactly what we want and stand very little chance of getting it.
That's based on what? Historically the EU has sacrificed services trade and investment freedom in favour of goods tariff reductions. That's unfavourable to the UK.
And don't forget agriculture. As a country with a small land mass in relation to population size, and which is consequently heavily reliant on imported food, protectionist tariffs designed to please the French farming lobby are deeply unfavourable to us. The first thing that the Government should do if and when we are formally out of the Customs Union is to declare unilateral free trade in food, if nothing else.
The effects of falling prices would be like a stimulant tax cut for everybody, but should disproportionately benefit the poorest who spend the largest percentage of their income on food. Large agribusinesses and premium suppliers should be able to adapt to and cope with the increased competition. The cost of keeping smaller farmers going through increased subsidy of agri-environment schemes would amount, comparatively speaking, to loose change for the state.
Right across the legal profession? I completely disagree, citing the pursuit of our troops as evidence.
It may very well be the interpretation of law in this particular case, but the press is entitled to hold a different view, based on some of the activities of the modern legal profession.
Comments
Shocking and disgraceful I tell you ....
We live in a world where almost nowhere on the planet is within not much more than a day's travel and where information can be transmitted by a variety of means instantaneously. With an economy dominated by supra-national corporations. Yet we have politicians and many voters who behave as if it still took a month on board ship to reach Australia.
https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/794523647063052288
Compliance costs are a cost worth paying to have our own trade deals.
If only some of todays MPs could be satirised in the same way as F. E. Smith.
http://www.cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/smith.txt
We need to embrace the whole globe, not one tiny fraction of it.
Not a brick wall, needn't be a stumbling block, rather an opportunity to engage properly with the discussion in a way politics has failed to do over the last 20 years.
Looking at the crosstabs makes the old "We Ask America" polls look like the gold standard.
The most successful exporter on the planet is Germany, right at the heart of the EU.
And many of the Brexit campaigners and many of their supporters cannot bring themselves to embrace the nearest parts of the globe, let alone the parts further away.
There is nothing in leaving the EU that will make us any more able to 'embrace the world' than we were so able by playing our role as part of the European family of nations.
https://twitter.com/cathleendecker/status/794288937061720064
https://twitter.com/Jesse_Norman/status/794439003416199168
https://twitter.com/Jesse_Norman/status/794439674026754048
St Peter was slightly surprised, but said ok: the lawyer had a tour next day. Beautiful golf course; the sun was shining and a very enjoyable evening in the club house.
The next day St. Peter asked him to make his choice - and the lawyer selected Hell (much to St. Peter's surprise).
He went down to Hell - and it was a burning, noisome wasteland. Outraged, he turned to the Devil and complained.
"Ah", the Devil said. "Yesterday you were a prospect. Today you're a client"
Judging by the comments by media and public, we need an urgent programme of citizenship education as to how the UK actually works.
John Harrison (Clockmaker)
After that you are down to the 'Famous Belgians" category. (The most famous of which is probably a fictional detective).
Btw, all is well here, just been doing other things. I understand you have too, or at least Mrs TP has. Congratulations on the family addition.
I don't see it.
Honda UK imports an engine block from Japan worth $2500, the UK now has a common tariff of 5% with non-MFN countries so the government collects $125 per unit imported. Honda UK imports 20,000 engine blocks per month from Japan which yields $2.5m. Honda UK then exports 4,000 cars per month to the EU. For those 4,000 it would pay an additional $125 per unit as the EU CET is 10%, so $500k. The government gives the EU the full $1m CET rate for vehicles re-exported to the EU, but the vehicles are not subject to customs controls at the EU border in Rotterdam.
Honda UK would currently pay $5m per month for the CET anyway so they save $2m overall, we set a lower goods tariff which is more suitable for our economy and the EU still collects "their" share of the CET for re-exported goods without having to enforce customs controls on British goods.
LEAVE - 52/48
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/david-cameron-s-favourite-cornish-cafe-given-zero-hygiene-rating/story-29864950-detail/story.html
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/794532159172317184
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2016/nevada
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/nevada/
Your arithmetic has gone awry! Zac's resignation reduced the Tory majority to 11 - it would only become 10 in the event of the seat being lost. The latest resignation reduces the majority to 10 - and only becomes 8 if both seats are lost.
If the EU's trade deals were centred upon our areas of advantage (eg putting free trade in financial services at the heart of deals) then we could be doing better too. But they're not. Out the EU we can embrace the whole world with our own terms.
We keep hearing how important the financial passport is to London but we export nearly as much in finance to the USA than we do the entire EU put together. The EU has no intentions of signing a financial passport deal with the USA - how much would one be worth to us if we could negotiate that?
You are basically counting on Trumps non-existent GOTV operation to do better this year than Romney's did last time in a heavily Hispanic state with a strong Dem GOTV built by Harry Reid. It's not impossible, but there is a reason NV isn't looking good for Trump at the mo
It really is an "everyone wins" solution.
https://twitter.com/MarkRountreeAtl/status/794534032910520320
Soch b*ll*cks on here about lawyers.
The legal profession is highly politicised because they made it so.
Anybody who has read anything about Phil Shiner and the disgusting pursuit of our troops realises that some lawyers have an agenda that is nothing to do with the interpretation of the law.
Is that the case here? who knows, but the press are perfectly at liberty to speculate upon it.
» show previous quotes
' Absolutely correct! The final two sentences are spot on. I would simply add that there is no requirement for Corbyn to bow to any plans May have for an election - particularly when his party is so far adrift in the polls.'
Tissue Price said:
'You keep saying this. But the no confidence route around the FTPA will not make Corbyn Prime Minister, because no alternative government can be formed. And given this, Labour might as well vote for the GE under the FTPA. '
I don't think the constitutional position is anything like as clear as you imply.I note that David Herdson referred to the possibility of Corbyn becoming PM in his article today - and other commentators have expressed a similar view. At the very least , forcing May to table a No Confidence Vote would delay any election by 2/3 weeks.
src="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peVdsTglebA"
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/794534377153855488
Dump trade deal with major developed bloc and all their associated deals.
Make deals increasingly with emerging economies, BRIC, MINT &c.
The risk is of UK business being forced to deal increasingly with 8 countries and more who are, yes, growing, but have problems of transparency and accountability almost across the board, to the exclusion of stable developed economies where the barriers have gone up.
What does this then do to the transparency, accountability and level of legal compliance of UK companies?
So, this trainee solicitor is nobody's fool. He thinks long and hard about this offer, before saying to the Devil "Okay, what's the catch?"
https://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/794533160314933249
The idea that the UK can buck this historic trend is pure speculation - and probably wishful thinking. Are we, for example, really going into enter into a radical free-trade agreement in services with the US? That would mean opening up our healthcare sector to proper US competition, and vice versa. Whilst I personally would think that's a great idea, and I expect you would too, in practice the politics of it would be massively difficult.
The effects of falling prices would be like a stimulant tax cut for everybody, but should disproportionately benefit the poorest who spend the largest percentage of their income on food. Large agribusinesses and premium suppliers should be able to adapt to and cope with the increased competition. The cost of keeping smaller farmers going through increased subsidy of agri-environment schemes would amount, comparatively speaking, to loose change for the state.
Right across the legal profession? I completely disagree, citing the pursuit of our troops as evidence.
It may very well be the interpretation of law in this particular case, but the press is entitled to hold a different view, based on some of the activities of the modern legal profession.