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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Well Diane James quits – But is Farage still leader?

SystemSystem Posts: 12,265
edited October 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Well Diane James quits – But is Farage still leader?

NEW: @DianeJamesMEP STATEMENT from @LOS_Fisher and @TheTimes: pic.twitter.com/4klJKT3fFp

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    edited October 2016
    First. Unlike UKIP. And unlike Mr Fox. Who I predict will be third. Unlike UKIP.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited October 2016
    Another new thread & still not on the GBBO scandal...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Curses! Foiled again!

    If it wasn't for you pesky kids....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/hrtbps/status/783417803613364224
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    She was a peculiar one from the start. Refusing to take part in any of the leadership hustings, then going around the country on her own. Refusing all interviews on the day she was elected. Weird behaviour from a politician let alone prospective party leader. The mystery is why she stood in the first place.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    If James turns it down, isn't Lisa Duffy leader as second in the ballot?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,838
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    brokenwheel said:

    Speedy said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I'm not sure the Tory party is for me any longer

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/783409349318348800

    You can always join the Labour party and sing the Internationale with Corbyn.
    I had him as more a Lib Dem to be honest.
    TSE has never really been a Tory, he is actually a classically liberal, Orange Book LD
    I've been a Tory member since 1997 (when I was 18 years old), I've helped elect several Tory MPs and councillors, and yet people keep on telling me I'm not a Tory.
    You are anti grammar school, pro EU, and pro immigration. Ask yourself do you have more in common with Nick Clegg and Tim Farron or Theresa May? The answer is probably the former
    A similar if opposite line of questioning as being put to Labour MPs by their friends in momentum. It doesn't seem as if either big party welcomes moderates, any more?
    Of course not.

    And of course, everyone is firmly in favour a broad tent approach for their party, but those disgusting Wets/liberals/corbynistas/blairites need to get the hell out first.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,911
    IanB2 said:

    The mystery is why she stood in the first place.

    Especially if true that she wrote 'under duress' on the papers. There are dark forces at work, Ian. :)
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    foxinsoxuk said:

    If James turns it down, isn't Lisa Duffy leader as second in the ballot?

    LOL.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,257
    Betfair paid out on her, sadly, so looks like I lose even though I won.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    FPT
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MrHarryCole: Diane James: "It is with great regret that I announce that I will not be formalising my recent nomination to become the new leader."

    Sounds like Nige is still in post...

    Anyone got the rules fag packet from the UKIP "The Constitution" pub? James wasn't elected leader she was "nominated". Does that mean Farage didn't resign he handed in his notice? Who is in charge?
    Well Raheem said this;

    https://twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/783415145032589312
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,838
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    HYUFD said:

    brokenwheel said:

    Speedy said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I'm not sure the Tory party is for me any longer

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/783409349318348800

    You can always join the Labour party and sing the Internationale with Corbyn.
    I had him as more a Lib Dem to be honest.
    TSE has never really been a Tory, he is actually a classically liberal, Orange Book LD
    I've been a Tory member since 1997 (when I was 18 years old), I've helped elect several Tory MPs and councillors, and yet people keep on telling me I'm not a Tory.
    You are anti grammar school, pro EU, and pro immigration. Ask yourself do you have more in common with Nick Clegg and Tim Farron or Theresa May? The answer is probably the former
    A similar if opposite line of questioning as being put to Labour MPs by their friends in momentum. It doesn't seem as if either big party welcomes moderates, any more?
    Moses_ said:

    If you think this is bad.....

    In the future some poor sod is going to have to study this period of time for a history exam and then try to give some sort of a sensible answer on an exam paper....l

    That's easy - just say it was bloody chaos. Accurate and concise.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,156
    williamglenn said:

    IanB2 said:

    The mystery is why she stood in the first place.

    Especially if true that she wrote 'under duress' on the papers. There are dark forces at work, Ian. :)
    have you heard any more on that? utterly bizarre.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    foxinsoxuk said:

    If James turns it down, isn't Lisa Duffy leader as second in the ballot?

    God knows (so ask Farage).
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    IanB2 said:

    The mystery is why she stood in the first place.

    @MichaelLCrick: Ex-Ukip bigwig Soutter: "She didn't want to do the job. Banks & Farage forced her into it. She lost them once she made Hamilton decision."
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    FPT
    After a literally 18 day dance by Dianne James who'm I always thought was a bit of a jellyfish. The only possible New Leader that would make UKIP pull itself together and make some advance is Steven Woolf.

    Nigel Farage failed get rid of seat stuck rats of the NEC, and I believe Woolf is the only man who can clean those Augean Stables.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    IMO, it's a bit pathetic for Diane James to stand down just because someone was nasty on a train, and because a few of her MEPs weren't uniting behind her.

    Was she EXPECTING to be universally hailed??
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2016
    Danny565 said:

    IMO, it's a bit pathetic for Diane James to stand down just because someone was nasty on a train, and because a few of her MEPs weren't uniting behind her.

    Was she EXPECTING to be universally hailed??

    A leader requires nerves of steel.

    Corbyn refused to resign even when the whole world was against him.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Hahahahahahaha, UKIP, utter and complete morons to a man, and domestic helpers, obviously. Couldn't organise panic in a sinking ship.

    The thick of it, looks more and more like a fly on the wall documentary.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,333
    Speedy said:

    Danny565 said:

    IMO, it's a bit pathetic for Diane James to stand down just because someone was nasty on a train, and because a few of her MEPs weren't uniting behind her.

    Was she EXPECTING to be universally hailed??

    A leader requires nerves of steel.

    Corbyn refused to resign even when the whole world was against him.
    Especially the leader of a right wing party, the left are incredibly nasty these days.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,838
    edited October 2016
    Scott_P said:

    IanB2 said:

    The mystery is why she stood in the first place.

    @MichaelLCrick: Ex-Ukip bigwig Soutter: "She didn't want to do the job. Banks & Farage forced her into it. She lost them once she made Hamilton decision."
    Jeremy could teach her a few things about the value of sticking to your guns, and going from a position of seemingly little authority despite winning a leadership contest, into a position of true control.

    Jeremy Corbyn - a more competent example of leadership?

    At the least, his sheer innate stubborness, which is often a negative, is at least admirable in terms of his tenacity.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Here is Cameron's chance to get back into politics and party leadership. At 500/1 he and us could make quite a coup. :D
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Claws out from Anna Soubry on Newsnight.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Stephen Bush ‏@stephenkb 31m31 minutes ago
    Diane James: admired Putin, but emulated Medvedev.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    May to say "don't hate the State" in her speech.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,838
    edited October 2016
    MikeK said:

    Here is Cameron's chance to get back into politics and party leadership. At 500/1 he and us could make quite a coup. :D

    Well, he was the man who delivered Brexit I guess, should go down well.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    New threads coming faster than party leadership contests tonight...
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    MikeK said:

    FPT
    After a literally 18 day dance by Dianne James who'm I always thought was a bit of a jellyfish. The only possible New Leader that would make UKIP pull itself together and make some advance is Steven Woolf.

    Nigel Farage failed get rid of seat stuck rats of the NEC, and I believe Woolf is the only man who can clean those Augean Stables.

    Shouldn't the 30 odd UKIP MP's you predicted have some say In this?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MichaelLCrick: Farage & co blocked Suzanne Evans standing for leader by suspending her from membership for 6 mins; must be furious she's now free to stand
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,911
    Danny565 said:

    May to say "don't hate the State" in her speech.

    The Tories really are national socialists now.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Farage & co blocked Suzanne Evans standing for leader by suspending her from membership for 6 mins; must be furious she's now free to stand

    I think Carswell is also allowed now to stand.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,156
    williamglenn said:

    Danny565 said:

    May to say "don't hate the State" in her speech.

    The Tories really are national socialists now.
    Oh dear...
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Just how long can the Tories be this lucky?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,130
    Black_Rook said:

    New threads coming faster than party leadership contests tonight...

    The previous thread opted not to take forward it's nomination as New Thread
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Danny565 said:

    Claws out from Anna Soubry on Newsnight.

    Makes a change, she's been all sweetness and light since before the Referendum.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,156
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Black_Rook said:

    New threads coming faster than party leadership contests tonight...

    The previous thread opted not to take forward it's nomination as New Thread
    Back to the old thread we go? :D
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,407
    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,715
    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Farage & co blocked Suzanne Evans standing for leader by suspending her from membership for 6 mins; must be furious she's now free to stand

    I think Carswell is also allowed now to stand.
    Carswell's libertarian, pro immigration stance is not in touch with the mood of the times and the voters UKIP needs to appeal to
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    RobD said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Black_Rook said:

    New threads coming faster than party leadership contests tonight...

    The previous thread opted not to take forward it's nomination as New Thread
    Back to the old thread we go? :D
    Meet the new thread, same as the old thread, won't get fooled again.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,911
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144

    It's starting to look like Andrea Leadsom would have handled Brexit with more class.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    #LoLabour. #LmaoUKIP
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,963
    IanB2 said:

    She was a peculiar one from the start. Refusing to take part in any of the leadership hustings, then going around the country on her own. Refusing all interviews on the day she was elected. Weird behaviour from a politician let alone prospective party leader. The mystery is why she stood in the first place.

    Conspiracy theory: Farage/Banks put her up to standing, winning, and standing down in order to discredit UKIP and create an opening for a new Leave.EU-based party led by them. Not saying I actually believe that's true but who knows, this is British politics in 2016 we're talking about.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Farage & co blocked Suzanne Evans standing for leader by suspending her from membership for 6 mins; must be furious she's now free to stand

    I think Carswell is also allowed now to stand.
    Carswell's libertarian, pro immigration stance is not in touch with the mood of the times and the voters UKIP needs to appeal to
    But he is their only MP, and the only one with some serious standing left in UKIP who hasn't had a go yet as leader, except Nutall.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144

    Surely it is a statement of the blindingly obvious that any guarantee for EU citizens rights to remain in the UK is conditional upon the EU reciprocating for our citizens? Why should the government not be concerned to make sure our citizens rights are respected in return?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,753
    Danny565 said:

    Claws out from Anna Soubry on Newsnight.

    For whom?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,156
    foxinsoxuk said:

    RobD said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Black_Rook said:

    New threads coming faster than party leadership contests tonight...

    The previous thread opted not to take forward it's nomination as New Thread
    Back to the old thread we go? :D
    Meet the new thread, same as the old thread, won't get fooled again.
    It certainly isn't an AV thread, I can tell you!
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:

    Claws out from Anna Soubry on Newsnight.

    For whom?
    Theresa May. Said something like she "wasn't capable" of being sociable with MPs.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Farage & co blocked Suzanne Evans standing for leader by suspending her from membership for 6 mins; must be furious she's now free to stand

    I think Carswell is also allowed now to stand.
    Carswell's libertarian, pro immigration stance is not in touch with the mood of the times and the voters UKIP needs to appeal to
    What difference do you see between the new UKIP you desire and the old BNP?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,753
    Philip_Thompson said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144

    Surely it is a statement of the blindingly obvious that any guarantee for EU citizens rights to remain in the UK is conditional upon the EU reciprocating for our citizens? Why should the government not be concerned to make sure our citizens rights are respected in return?
    Yes, tit for tat is the essence of diplomacy.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144

    That is factually correct, since EU countries will blackmail us on the status of british nationals you need to hold EU nationals as hostages too.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Farage in to 8/1 with Shadsy. Still good value.

    I fancy Lisa Duffy though at 16/1.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,753
    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:

    Claws out from Anna Soubry on Newsnight.

    For whom?
    Theresa May. Said something like she "wasn't capable" of being sociable with MPs.
    I think Theresa May is something of a lone wolf, but her predecessor wasn't very sociable either.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    Hmm. Theresa May is not that impressive on TV.

    She cannot do empathy. She has no humanity.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    The Tories are heading rightwards at a rapid rate. Corbyn is the enabler, but it's no excuse. Horrible, horrible stuff from Amber Rudd.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:

    Claws out from Anna Soubry on Newsnight.

    For whom?
    Theresa May. Said something like she "wasn't capable" of being sociable with MPs.
    Is Soubry trying to be to May what Nadine Dorries was to Cameron?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,838
    SeanT said:

    Hmm. Theresa May is not that impressive on TV.

    I suppose it is true of many politicians, but particularly our new PM, I find is better in small doses. Few people look consistently good on TV, or in the public eye. She should make sure some of the genuinely offputting ones always precede her.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    Philip_Thompson said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144

    Surely it is a statement of the blindingly obvious that any guarantee for EU citizens rights to remain in the UK is conditional upon the EU reciprocating for our citizens? Why should the government not be concerned to make sure our citizens rights are respected in return?
    Not for Remoaners.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    IanB2 said:

    The mystery is why she stood in the first place.

    Especially if true that she wrote 'under duress' on the papers. There are dark forces at work, Ian. :)
    have you heard any more on that? utterly bizarre.
    According to the Guardian the Electoral Commission rejected her leadership papers because of the Latin indication that she hadn't signed them voluntarily. These papers are only filled after the election result was declared; she must have expected the job as she was favourite from start to finish and rumoured to have the right backers to win. So any duress must surely have come at a much earlier stage?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,838
    Any centrist parties that currently want to pitch for some votes? No? Oh well then.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2016
    foxinsoxuk said:

    Farage in to 8/1 with Shadsy. Still good value.

    I fancy Lisa Duffy though at 16/1.

    Question.

    If Farage is leader after James resigned/refused to take over, does that cover the next leader bets ?

    Is technically Farage the next UKIP leader after James at least until a new leadership election ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,156
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    IanB2 said:

    The mystery is why she stood in the first place.

    Especially if true that she wrote 'under duress' on the papers. There are dark forces at work, Ian. :)
    have you heard any more on that? utterly bizarre.
    According to the Guardian the Electoral Commission rejected her leadership papers because of the Latin indication that she hadn't signed them voluntarily. These papers are only filled after the election result was declared; she must have expected the job as she was favourite from start to finish and rumoured to have the right backers to win. So any duress must surely have come at a much earlier stage?
    Linky? In their article it just says "ukip source"
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,911
    SeanT said:

    Speedy said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144

    That is factually correct, since EU countries will blackmail us on the status of british nationals you need to hold EU nationals as hostages too.
    Indeed. It is impossible for a UK government to hold any other position until the rights of UK citizens in the EU are guaranteed.
    The rights of UK citizens in the EU are guaranteed by virtue of our membership of the EU. Until we start negotiations this kind of public statement as a dog whistle to the 'send them home' tendency serves no purpose and is deplorable.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    Hmm. Theresa May is not that impressive on TV.

    I suppose it is true of many politicians, but particularly our new PM, I find is better in small doses. Few people look consistently good on TV, or in the public eye. She should make sure some of the genuinely offputting ones always precede her.
    In her party she does at least have the luxury of a reasonable choice
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    SeanT said:

    Speedy said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144

    That is factually correct, since EU countries will blackmail us on the status of british nationals you need to hold EU nationals as hostages too.
    Indeed. It is impossible for a UK government to hold any other position until the rights of UK citizens in the EU are guaranteed.
    But it's an absurd position. Even if we were going to do mass deportations of EU citizens, how would we do it? We don't know who they are, where they live or where they came from. In any case many will be eligible for UK citizenship.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    saddened said:

    MikeK said:

    FPT
    After a literally 18 day dance by Dianne James who'm I always thought was a bit of a jellyfish. The only possible New Leader that would make UKIP pull itself together and make some advance is Steven Woolf.

    Nigel Farage failed get rid of seat stuck rats of the NEC, and I believe Woolf is the only man who can clean those Augean Stables.

    Shouldn't the 30 odd UKIP MP's you predicted have some say In this?
    Well there could have been if you believe the new theory of evasive and strange matter, released today. ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,715
    kle4 said:

    Any centrist parties that currently want to pitch for some votes? No? Oh well then.

    Tim? Is that you?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,407
    @atulh: May=Broon. Brexit=crash. Hammond=Darling.Within 18 months, team May will unleash forces of hell on Hammond for being straight on Brex impact
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,715
    Philip_Thompson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Farage & co blocked Suzanne Evans standing for leader by suspending her from membership for 6 mins; must be furious she's now free to stand

    I think Carswell is also allowed now to stand.
    Carswell's libertarian, pro immigration stance is not in touch with the mood of the times and the voters UKIP needs to appeal to
    What difference do you see between the new UKIP you desire and the old BNP?
    I never said I desired it, I voted Remain if you remember, just that UKIP obviously have far more voters to appeal to who are hostile to immigration than wealthy libertarians who want to slash the state to almost nothing
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,911
    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The Tories are heading rightwards at a rapid rate. Corbyn is the enabler, but it's no excuse. Horrible, horrible stuff from Amber Rudd.

    There is literally no way of getting immigration down, to 100,000 a year or so, without being seriously "rightwing".
    There is. You can be seriously "leftwing" and socialise the economy with jobs mandated for citizens but no dynamic 'job creation' to as a pull factor.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,715
    Danny565 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:

    Claws out from Anna Soubry on Newsnight.

    For whom?
    Theresa May. Said something like she "wasn't capable" of being sociable with MPs.
    Neither was Thatcher
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144

    Question: Was Liam Fox put there by May to be sacrificed later? If she's looking for some sort of compromise with the EU that might not be to the liking of some of the Brexit ultras then, if he storms off in a huff or is axed, this could be used to demonstrate that (a) the Prime Minister is in charge and her will be done, and (b) whatever deal she does get is something to be welcomed by moderate folk, because the headbangers don't like it (and aren't we all lucky that she, not they, happens to be in charge?)

    If a semi-formal arrangement is created with the DUP then this would give May an effective majority of a little over 30 (not counting the Labour leavers for certain crucial votes) which would allow the Government to survive a small number of harder Right MPs going postal.

    David Davis is a reliable Brexiteer, he's the one actually organising the whole thing, and his presence ought to help to allay backsliding fears from the pro-Brexit wing of the party. Liam Fox, on the other hand, has little to do but preliminary work before we actually leave the EU - a job that could readily be passed by the relevant civil servants into a safer pair of hands, were he to fall on his sword at some point in the next year or so...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    williamglenn said:

    IanB2 said:

    The mystery is why she stood in the first place.

    Especially if true that she wrote 'under duress' on the papers. There are dark forces at work, Ian. :)
    have you heard any more on that? utterly bizarre.
    According to the Guardian the Electoral Commission rejected her leadership papers because of the Latin indication that she hadn't signed them voluntarily. These papers are only filled after the election result was declared; she must have expected the job as she was favourite from start to finish and rumoured to have the right backers to win. So any duress must surely have come at a much earlier stage?
    Linky? In their article it just says "ukip source"
    Sorry, wrong paper, it is mentioned at the bottom of the independent story, although the source is unclear - they have clearly spoken to the electoral commission but the bit about the papers being void is just tagged with "it was reported that...". Possibly the EC didn't want to be attributed the comment?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-leader-diane-james-resigns-latest-a7345286.html
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    British politics is monumentally fucked right now. I suspect worse is to come.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,715
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: Farage & co blocked Suzanne Evans standing for leader by suspending her from membership for 6 mins; must be furious she's now free to stand

    I think Carswell is also allowed now to stand.
    Carswell's libertarian, pro immigration stance is not in touch with the mood of the times and the voters UKIP needs to appeal to
    But he is their only MP, and the only one with some serious standing left in UKIP who hasn't had a go yet as leader, except Nutall.
    He would not win even if he ran, Duffy was his candidate in the last leadership race, Nuttall would be a better bet
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    Jonathan said:

    British politics is monumentally fucked right now. I suspect worse is to come.

    Isn't being fucked the end of the scale, then?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,753
    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The Tories are heading rightwards at a rapid rate. Corbyn is the enabler, but it's no excuse. Horrible, horrible stuff from Amber Rudd.

    There is literally no way of getting immigration down, to 100,000 a year or so, without being seriously "rightwing".

    Every single poll shows that Brits want this: immigration severely reduced. Indeed many polls show a plurality of Brits want ZERO net migration.

    The referendum was a wake up call. You either bend to the will of the electorate now, and seriously but democratically reduce migration, which will indeed hurt, or you do nothing - like Labour and Corbyn - and you risk the people electing a Far Right government, which they will do, eventually.

    See Holland, Austria, France, Sweden, Finland, all with rising Far Right parties that might seize power soon enough.

    What would you do?
    I think that some influential people would prefer to ditch democracy to keep mass immigration - it means so much to them.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @atulh: May=Broon. Brexit=crash. Hammond=Darling.Within 18 months, team May will unleash forces of hell on Hammond for being straight on Brex impact

    Blimey the eagle has dived splat on the ground.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,156
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    @atulh: May=Broon. Brexit=crash. Hammond=Darling.Within 18 months, team May will unleash forces of hell on Hammond for being straight on Brex impact

    A totally impartial observer ;)
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Jonathan said:

    British politics is monumentally fucked right now. I suspect worse is to come.

    We have three more months of 2016 to survive.
  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    There is now gigantic chasm on the centre ground. The Corbynistas have reaped what they have sown, allowing the Tories to happily march off into what as recently a few months ago would have been considered a frothing rightwing wilderness.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2016
    kle4 said:

    Any centrist parties that currently want to pitch for some votes? No? Oh well then.

    Why should they?

    The only centrist national party got 5% in the last opinion poll, not many votes there.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    I'm going to sleep now. I wonder how many times nigel farage will have been leader and resigned the leadership when I wake up.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,838
    Speedy said:

    kle4 said:

    Any centrist parties that currently want to pitch for some votes? No? Oh well then.

    Why should they?

    The only centrist national party got 5% in the last opinion poll.
    A compelling if depressing point.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    edited October 2016
    Black_Rook said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144

    Question: Was Liam Fox put there by May to be sacrificed later? If she's looking for some sort of compromise with the EU that might not be to the liking of some of the Brexit ultras then, if he storms off in a huff or is axed, this could be used to demonstrate that (a) the Prime Minister is in charge and her will be done, and (b) whatever deal she does get is something to be welcomed by moderate folk, because the headbangers don't like it (and aren't we all lucky that she, not they, happens to be in charge?)

    If a semi-formal arrangement is created with the DUP then this would give May an effective majority of a little over 30 (not counting the Labour leavers for certain crucial votes) which would allow the Government to survive a small number of harder Right MPs going postal.

    David Davis is a reliable Brexiteer, he's the one actually organising the whole thing, and his presence ought to help to allay backsliding fears from the pro-Brexit wing of the party. Liam Fox, on the other hand, has little to do but preliminary work before we actually leave the EU - a job that could readily be passed by the relevant civil servants into a safer pair of hands, were he to fall on his sword at some point in the next year or so...
    So Boris is the front man, Davis does the work and Fox gets the blame? Sounds credible to me. At least now they all have clear roles.
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 508
    Mortimer said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144

    Surely it is a statement of the blindingly obvious that any guarantee for EU citizens rights to remain in the UK is conditional upon the EU reciprocating for our citizens? Why should the government not be concerned to make sure our citizens rights are respected in return?
    Not for Remoaners.
    Point spectacularly missed: if it's really a quid pro quo, then this could be handled simply by separating this off from the rest of the negotiations. Discuss and agree now the reciprocal citizenship rights to avoid stress and unpleasantness for millions of people, keep people calm and generate plenty of goodwill in the run up to the Brexit negotiations.

    Instead, all Fox has done in a spectacularly callous and disrespectful way is simply to cause insecurity and stress for millions of people. I'm ashamed of him, and the Tories. I appreciate he was just Tory Conference grandstanding, but this is cackhandedness of the highest order. It didn't need to be done like this, whether you want Brexit or not. It's insane. This isn't diplomacy, it's moving your hostages to the window.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2016
    Jobabob said:

    There is now gigantic chasm on the centre ground. The Corbynistas have reaped what they have sown, allowing the Tories to happily march off into what as recently a few months ago would have been considered a frothing rightwing wilderness.

    That is the tragedy of Corbynism. By abandoning any attempt at opposition the Nasty party does not need to pretend anymore.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,838
    Black_Rook said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144

    Question: Was Liam Fox put there by May to be sacrificed later?
    People have been saying that since he was announced.

    It seems more likely to me May thinks he is the best man for the job.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,753
    Black_Rook said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144

    Question: Was Liam Fox put there by May to be sacrificed later? If she's looking for some sort of compromise with the EU that might not be to the liking of some of the Brexit ultras then, if he storms off in a huff or is axed, this could be used to demonstrate that (a) the Prime Minister is in charge and her will be done, and (b) whatever deal she does get is something to be welcomed by moderate folk, because the headbangers don't like it (and aren't we all lucky that she, not they, happens to be in charge?)

    If a semi-formal arrangement is created with the DUP then this would give May an effective majority of a little over 30 (not counting the Labour leavers for certain crucial votes) which would allow the Government to survive a small number of harder Right MPs going postal.

    David Davis is a reliable Brexiteer, he's the one actually organising the whole thing, and his presence ought to help to allay backsliding fears from the pro-Brexit wing of the party. Liam Fox, on the other hand, has little to do but preliminary work before we actually leave the EU - a job that could readily be passed by the relevant civil servants into a safer pair of hands, were he to fall on his sword at some point in the next year or so...
    Maybe the DUP should become the Conservatives' Northern Ireland wing.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    SeanT said:

    Hmm. Theresa May is not that impressive on TV.

    She is not very good at handling awkward questions (one of Cameron's secret weapons in interviews was how he could dodge a question without making it obvious that he was dodging it).

    May was on our local news last week (where, needless to say, the interviewers are not exactly Paxman) and she made a dreadful mess of some softball questions about a local council's cuts.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The Tories are heading rightwards at a rapid rate. Corbyn is the enabler, but it's no excuse. Horrible, horrible stuff from Amber Rudd.

    There is literally no way of getting immigration down, to 100,000 a year or so, without being seriously "rightwing".

    Every single poll shows that Brits want this: immigration severely reduced. Indeed many polls show a plurality of Brits want ZERO net migration.

    The referendum was a wake up call. You either bend to the will of the electorate now, and seriously but democratically reduce migration, which will indeed hurt, or you do nothing - like Labour and Corbyn - and you risk the people electing a Far Right government, which they will do, eventually.

    See Holland, Austria, France, Sweden, Finland, all with rising Far Right parties that might seize power soon enough.

    What would you do?

    I am sure you're right. I understand voters want less immigration. But Rudd is not thwarting the far right, she is aping it. At some point, politicians have to lead. Rudd, though, is taking the easy path by scapegoating foreigners and seeking to make them feel as unwelcome and as unwanted as possible. That will be noticed by all those countries we are supposed to want to open up to, and it will not diminish the far right, it will embolden it.

  • JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    foxinsoxuk said:

    If James turns it down, isn't Lisa Duffy leader as second in the ballot?

    Mrs Duffy is Ukip leader? Things are even more fucked up than even I thought possible.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The Tories are heading rightwards at a rapid rate. Corbyn is the enabler, but it's no excuse. Horrible, horrible stuff from Amber Rudd.

    There is literally no way of getting immigration down, to 100,000 a year or so, without being seriously "rightwing".
    There is. You can be seriously "leftwing" and socialise the economy with jobs mandated for citizens but no dynamic 'job creation' to as a pull factor.
    A major recession would probably do it.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    SouthamObserver said:

    The Tories are heading rightwards at a rapid rate. Corbyn is the enabler, but it's no excuse. Horrible, horrible stuff from Amber Rudd.

    Seems our French and German employees will need to wear a yellow star, or something like that.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    Jobabob said:

    There is now gigantic chasm on the centre ground. The Corbynistas have reaped what they have sown, allowing the Tories to happily march off into what as recently a few months ago would have been considered a frothing rightwing wilderness.

    This is an interesting article. I am more certain than ever that Corbyn will be gone by the end of 2018. The Tory march rightwards will hasten that:
    http://europe.newsweek.com/jeremy-corbyn-owen-smith-how-popular-jeremy-corbyn-why-did-he-win-labour-party-505909?utm_source=social&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=/jeremy-corbyn-owen-smith-how-popular-jeremy-corbyn-why-did-he-win-labour-party-505909
  • paulbarkerpaulbarker Posts: 77
    Those rumours from (?) the Electoral Commission go some way to explaining James odd behaviour, perhaps she was pressured into standing ? But Why/How/ by Who ?
    The nutty conspiracy theory is fun but who leads a split from a Party they already lead ? Mind you, the example of Mao & The Cultural Revolution comes to mind. Perhaps UKIP just werent mad enough for Nutty Nige?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    brokenwheel said:

    Jonathan said:

    British politics is monumentally fucked right now. I suspect worse is to come.

    We have three more months of 2016 to survive.
    Oh come on, Trump is not going to be president.

    Though Hillary will be, unless Trump resigns.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    IanB2 said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The Tories are heading rightwards at a rapid rate. Corbyn is the enabler, but it's no excuse. Horrible, horrible stuff from Amber Rudd.

    There is literally no way of getting immigration down, to 100,000 a year or so, without being seriously "rightwing".
    There is. You can be seriously "leftwing" and socialise the economy with jobs mandated for citizens but no dynamic 'job creation' to as a pull factor.
    A major recession would probably do it.
    I don't think so. Even in 2009 we had large immigration numbers.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,291
    Danny565 said:

    SeanT said:

    Hmm. Theresa May is not that impressive on TV.

    She is not very good at handling awkward questions (one of Cameron's secret weapons in interviews was how he could dodge a question without making it obvious that he was dodging it).

    May was on our local news last week (where, needless to say, the interviewers are not exactly Paxman) and she made a dreadful mess of some softball questions about a local council's cuts.
    OT Paxman has recently spoken about his abusive father, and there was a psychologist on radio four in the week suggesting that Paxman's hyper-aggressive questioning may be his subconscious getting its own back.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    SouthamObserver said:

    The Tories are heading rightwards at a rapid rate. Corbyn is the enabler, but it's no excuse. Horrible, horrible stuff from Amber Rudd.

    Hmm, not so much rightwards but populist - moving leftwards economically, austerity dead, May explicitly bigging up the role of the state, there's some 'encouraging' aspects there for those on the economic left when compared to Cameron's austerity government. But definitely going right on immigration and other 'social' issues at an alarming but not surprising rate.

    I always thought Amber Rudd was more of a wet tory though, i'm surprised to see her delivering a speech like this. Means May is really just directing all the orders, and hard to see how long she can continue like that with no real mandate for it.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    IanB2 said:

    Black_Rook said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/ThoenissenC/status/783375018176774144

    Question: Was Liam Fox put there by May to be sacrificed later? If she's looking for some sort of compromise with the EU that might not be to the liking of some of the Brexit ultras then, if he storms off in a huff or is axed, this could be used to demonstrate that (a) the Prime Minister is in charge and her will be done, and (b) whatever deal she does get is something to be welcomed by moderate folk, because the headbangers don't like it (and aren't we all lucky that she, not they, happens to be in charge?)

    If a semi-formal arrangement is created with the DUP then this would give May an effective majority of a little over 30 (not counting the Labour leavers for certain crucial votes) which would allow the Government to survive a small number of harder Right MPs going postal.

    David Davis is a reliable Brexiteer, he's the one actually organising the whole thing, and his presence ought to help to allay backsliding fears from the pro-Brexit wing of the party. Liam Fox, on the other hand, has little to do but preliminary work before we actually leave the EU - a job that could readily be passed by the relevant civil servants into a safer pair of hands, were he to fall on his sword at some point in the next year or so...
    So Boris is the front man, Davis does the work and Fox gets the blame? Sounds credible to me. At least now they all have clear roles.

    The problem is that they are all useless.

This discussion has been closed.