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SystemSystem Posts: 12,686
edited September 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What happened when Yvette Cooper made a last minute appeal on behalf of Owen Smith

One feature that has characterised this LAB leadership campaign has been the sheer nastiness that we have seen on social media. The above Tweet this afternoon is just the latest example.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,795
    edited September 2016
    First like me in the PB fantasy football.

    And yes, I agree, you should see the abuse people like Mike, Britain Elects, and myself receive from the Corbynites when we tweet polling that's bad for Jez.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/bbcphilipsim/status/778306148940255233
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Rather than lending a hand to a no-hoper wanting to take over an irredeemable party of deplorables, Yvette should put together a break away group.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCPhilipSim: So Scottish Labour would be able to have its own policies on reserved matters (like Trident). Could set up some interesting clashes...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,789
    edited September 2016
    It's horrible, but really I don't think that 500,000 people mostly with instant social media access can be kept entirely orderly. This type of thing was not that rare before but generally done face to face - I've been called aany number of abusive names (some of them on here), as well as having diverse threats including one (probably not very serious) murder threat. Now, the same sort of thing goes onto a blog or social media post, often anonymously, and then gets seized on to make someone's political point.

    I'm afraid it's the new normal, and not just for Labour: all any party can do is throw out anyone who's caught doing it.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,086
    O/T Anthropogenic Global Warming:

    It's getting a bit boring now but August 2016 was the warmest August ever recorded globally. The June to August season was the warmest ever and the year to date (Jan-Aug) was the warmest ever. The UN's soft ceiling of limiting temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels is looking very stretching to say the least.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201608

    Anyway, this is PB and some of the Breibart reading loons will continue to sprout out garbage such as "AGW Tough" and so on. The facts are the facts - take note!
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,414
    Mike - The Jewish Labour MP is Smeeth not Deeth
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    williamglenn said:

    Rather than lending a hand to a no-hoper wanting to take over an irredeemable party of deplorables, Yvette should put together a break away group.

    A group of like-minded damp rags?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    The problem for Labour is that they have tolerated and in some cases encouraged these far-left loons. They were more than happy to see them attack (sometimes physically) Tory and UKIP supporters. This is entirely self inflicted.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    murali_s said:

    O/T Anthropogenic Global Warming:

    It's getting a bit boring now but August 2016 was the warmest August ever recorded globally. The June to August season was the warmest ever and the year to date (Jan-Aug) was the warmest ever. The UN's soft ceiling of limiting temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels is looking very stretching to say the least.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201608

    Anyway, this is PB and some of the Breibart reading loons will continue to sprout out garbage such as "AGW Tough" and so on. The facts are the facts - take note!

    Do we have satellite surface data and widespread measurements accurate to a tenth of a degree for pre-industrial times ?
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Lib Dem conference and Farron remind me of that cheese advert where the pensioners get on the roller coaster and apon alighting shuffle away with the bloke saying

    "what sort of cheese was that?"
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    The hard left, like the hard right, feeds off hate. I would not confuse abusive Twitter warriors with ordinary Corbyn backers. I have had plenty of exchanges with the latter over the last three months and they've actually made me rather hopeful - despite the frustrations!

    If reports are right, though, online abuse might well intensify over the coming weeks as today's NEC meeting does not seem to have gone entirely Corbyn's way. It may actually turn out that thanks to new Scottish and Welsh places, the NEC that takes over after conference will have a non-Corbyn majority. If that is the case, rule changes the hard left had been hoping for will be much harder to get through. Cue fury.

    Of course, Corbyn has had it in his power for a while to curb abusive behaviour. He could, for example, have insisted that his supporters did not boo and shout at Owen Smith during the hustings. He chose not to.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited September 2016
    murali_s said:

    O/T Anthropogenic Global Warming:

    It's getting a bit boring now but August 2016 was the warmest August ever recorded globally. The June to August season was the warmest ever and the year to date (Jan-Aug) was the warmest ever. The UN's soft ceiling of limiting temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels is looking very stretching to say the least.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201608

    Anyway, this is PB and some of the Breibart reading loons will continue to sprout out garbage such as "AGW Tough" and so on. The facts are the facts - take note!

    Question; are we in an ice age?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Theresa May chooses ruby slippers for the UN.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Good evening everyone.
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited September 2016
    murali_s said:

    O/T Anthropogenic Global Warming:

    It's getting a bit boring now but August 2016 was the warmest August ever recorded globally. The June to August season was the warmest ever and the year to date (Jan-Aug) was the warmest ever. The UN's soft ceiling of limiting temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels is looking very stretching to say the least.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201608

    Anyway, this is PB and some of the Breibart reading loons will continue to sprout out garbage such as "AGW Tough" and so on. The facts are the facts - take note!

    Weather is not climate, and without the raw figures and a detailed explanation of their rationale for adjusting them to get the published figures the data is as meaningful as a pre brexit opinion poll.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCPhilipSim: So Scottish Labour would be able to have its own policies on reserved matters (like Trident). Could set up some interesting clashes...

    If they can make their own policy on EVERYTHING then that strikes me as being only half-a-step removed from breaking away and creating a CDU/CSU relationship with the party in London.

    You could say that this is a positive move - demonstrating that Scottish Labour isn't a branch office - or a negative one - a sop to separatism. Either way, I'm not at all convinced that it will help them to wrest the initiative on the Left back off the pro-independence parties.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    Kippers and Cybernats can often be almost as bad as Corbynistas, they represent the 3 most passionate forces in British politics today, Brexit, Scottish nationalism and Corbynism. However if the police can trace you they can take action if tweets are too threatening
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Thrak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thrak said:

    HYUFD said:

    rottenborough said:

    I know some PBers have been interested in parallels between Trump and Brexit. Larry Sabato's not so convinced:

    "Brexit isn’t necessarily a great parallel for our election, both because it was a ballot issue while ours is a choice among candidates, and because the British Brexit electorate (6% nonwhite) and the U.S. presidential electorate (approaching 30% nonwhite) are dramatically different."

    Part of an interesting article on changes to toss-up states in recent week. Still HRC, but less certain:

    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/the-trump-surge/

    The big issue in both campaigns is anti immigration and anti globalisation and especially the disenchantment of the white working class which was capitalised on by Leave and is being exploited by Trump. It may be demographics which allow Hillary to scrape over the line in the US, with UK demographics Trump would now almost certainly win
    Not actually in the UK, with a -73 favourability rating gap he wouldn't. Thankfully the people of Britain can sense a fraud when they see one, even if a group of Americans can't. Shockingly, his popularity is even lower than Putin's, Corbyn being a relatiively stratospheric -25.

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/15/theresa-may-more-popular-jeremy-corbyn-among-tradi/
    What has that got anything to do with it? Trump is not running in the UK (though UKIP voters are far more favourable towards him). However his anti immigration, anti globalisation message was pivotal to the Leave victory in the UK, which was why he invited Farage to his rally
    So it's not demographics, it's just the mindset that a number of Americans have that gives him a chance.
    "a number of Americans" in this case would be shorthand for "around 70 million Americans" I assume ?
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    First like me in the PB fantasy football.

    And yes, I agree, you should see the abuse people like Mike, Britain Elects, and myself receive from the Corbynites when we tweet polling that's bad for Jez.

    tick tock
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,651
    edited September 2016
    Kinder Gentler Politics...biscuit anybody....
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    MP_SE said:

    williamglenn said:

    Rather than lending a hand to a no-hoper wanting to take over an irredeemable party of deplorables, Yvette should put together a break away group.

    A group of like-minded damp rags?
    Damp red flags?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scons Florida poll gives Clinton a 5 point lead (down on previous poll)

    http://polls.saintleo.edu/new-saint-leo-survey-shows-presidential-race-between-clinton-and-trump-narrowing-in-florida-and-across-u-s/#utm_sguid=154855,3e0b2b2c-59d3-6fef-5af2-aa0c5cdd0957
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    I think @DaveyRich62 was referring to Fred Cooper
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    SouthamObserver said:

    The hard left, like the hard right, feeds off hate. I would not confuse abusive Twitter warriors with ordinary Corbyn backers. I have had plenty of exchanges with the latter over the last three months and they've actually made me rather hopeful - despite the frustrations!

    If reports are right, though, online abuse might well intensify over the coming weeks as today's NEC meeting does not seem to have gone entirely Corbyn's way. It may actually turn out that thanks to new Scottish and Welsh places, the NEC that takes over after conference will have a non-Corbyn majority. If that is the case, rule changes the hard left had been hoping for will be much harder to get through. Cue fury.

    Of course, Corbyn has had it in his power for a while to curb abusive behaviour. He could, for example, have insisted that his supporters did not boo and shout at Owen Smith during the hustings. He chose not to.

    SouthamObserver said:

    The hard left, like the hard right, feeds off hate. I would not confuse abusive Twitter warriors with ordinary Corbyn backers. I have had plenty of exchanges with the latter over the last three months and they've actually made me rather hopeful - despite the frustrations!

    If reports are right, though, online abuse might well intensify over the coming weeks as today's NEC meeting does not seem to have gone entirely Corbyn's way. It may actually turn out that thanks to new Scottish and Welsh places, the NEC that takes over after conference will have a non-Corbyn majority. If that is the case, rule changes the hard left had been hoping for will be much harder to get through. Cue fury.

    Of course, Corbyn has had it in his power for a while to curb abusive behaviour. He could, for example, have insisted that his supporters did not boo and shout at Owen Smith during the hustings. He chose not to.

    g

    "I would not confuse abusive Twitter warriors with ordinary Corbyn backers."

    Odd... Brexit Twitter warriors in the run up to the ref were aligned directly and consistently with genuine Brexiters ...... Even on this blog. They still are. ...... (Reference Tysons every other post)

    Oh well...
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Black_Rook said:

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCPhilipSim: So Scottish Labour would be able to have its own policies on reserved matters (like Trident). Could set up some interesting clashes...

    If they can make their own policy on EVERYTHING then that strikes me as being only half-a-step removed from breaking away and creating a CDU/CSU relationship with the party in London.

    You could say that this is a positive move - demonstrating that Scottish Labour isn't a branch office - or a negative one - a sop to separatism. Either way, I'm not at all convinced that it will help them to wrest the initiative on the Left back off the pro-independence parties.
    Is Welsh Labour going to be able to do likewise? Could have a pro Trident, anti Trident, and don't really know Trident policy all at once for example. What fun.

    Still the CDU/CSU have worked it out for yonks ( even strained right now thanks to Mutti Merkel) so it is doable, if all are prepared to play nicely. Hmm.
  • ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    Indigo said:

    Thrak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thrak said:

    HYUFD said:

    rottenborough said:

    I know some PBers have been interested in parallels between Trump and Brexit. Larry Sabato's not so convinced:

    "Brexit isn’t necessarily a great parallel for our election, both because it was a ballot issue while ours is a choice among candidates, and because the British Brexit electorate (6% nonwhite) and the U.S. presidential electorate (approaching 30% nonwhite) are dramatically different."

    Part of an interesting article on changes to toss-up states in recent week. Still HRC, but less certain:

    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/the-trump-surge/

    The big issue in both campaigns is anti immigration and anti globalisation and especially the disenchantment of the white working class which was capitalised on by Leave and is being exploited by Trump. It may be demographics which allow Hillary to scrape over the line in the US, with UK demographics Trump would now almost certainly win
    Not actually in the UK, with a -73 favourability rating gap he wouldn't. Thankfully the people of Britain can sense a fraud when they see one, even if a group of Americans can't. Shockingly, his popularity is even lower than Putin's, Corbyn being a relatiively stratospheric -25.

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/15/theresa-may-more-popular-jeremy-corbyn-among-tradi/
    What has that got anything to do with it? Trump is not running in the UK (though UKIP voters are far more favourable towards him). However his anti immigration, anti globalisation message was pivotal to the Leave victory in the UK, which was why he invited Farage to his rally
    So it's not demographics, it's just the mindset that a number of Americans have that gives him a chance.
    "a number of Americans" in this case would be shorthand for "around 70 million Americans" I assume ?
    It is shocking, yes, when compared to the moderation of a country like our own, where he would already be yesterday's news.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Germany, INSA poll:

    CDU/CSU-EPP: 30% ↓
    SPD-S&D: 22%
    AfD-ENF: 15%
    GRÜNE-G/EFA: 11%
    LINKE-LEFT: 10%
    FDP-ALDE 7%

    These figures are not unlike those seen in many recent surveys. With the hard left and hard right both on the march, the age of the permanent, locked centrist coalition may have dawned in Germany. Interesting times.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,651
    edited September 2016
    Laura Griffiths, a senior field manager at Safe Passage, which helps bring together child refugees in Calais and their families in the UK, said Raheemullah had a legal right to join his brother in Manchester.

    Under EU-wide regulation, asylum claims must be made in the first safe country a person reaches, but children can have their claim transferred to another country if they have family members living there.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37423039

    So why didn't he claim asylum in France?
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    MP_SE said:

    The problem for Labour is that they have tolerated and in some cases encouraged these far-left loons. They were more than happy to see them attack (sometimes physically) Tory and UKIP supporters. This is entirely self inflicted.

    yeah, in the past, it was aimed outwards and justified (Tories don't have feelings lol). Now its inwards. Eh, you buttered that toast with shit, now eat it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,106
    "This didn't happen before Jeremy Corbyn came on the scene"? It happened, just not to Labour MPs. Tories have always been the target of this sort of abuse. Remember the vitroil, personal threats and vandalism aimed at the (female) Tory candidate for (I think) Bristol North West at (I think) the last general election - or maybe the one before? And all the abuse targeted at Esther McVey? This sort of thing is a direct result of a mindset who think that those who disagree with them are not just wrong, but evil, beyond the pale. The mainstream left - the likes of Stephen Pound, Tony Banks, even Gordon Brown - have encouraged this attitude in the past. It is now coming back to bite them. Of course, I have every sympathy for the likes of Jess Philips, Angela Eagle and others who have been the victims of this this time around - but this is a monster of the left's own making.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,086
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    murali_s said:

    O/T Anthropogenic Global Warming:

    It's getting a bit boring now but August 2016 was the warmest August ever recorded globally. The June to August season was the warmest ever and the year to date (Jan-Aug) was the warmest ever. The UN's soft ceiling of limiting temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels is looking very stretching to say the least.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201608

    Anyway, this is PB and some of the Breibart reading loons will continue to sprout out garbage such as "AGW Tough" and so on. The facts are the facts - take note!

    Weather is not climate, and without the raw figures and a detailed explanation of their rationale for adjusting them to get the published figures the data is as meaningful as a pre brexit opinion poll.
    Who's talking about weather here? Not NOAA...
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    OT
    On a South West trains service and the loo has a sign

    "Do not flush while seated ". :open_mouth:

    More used to don't flush in a station?

    #errodedtraditions
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,651
    edited September 2016
    So he has previously stabbed people, caught carrying weapons and gone to a Jahadi hotbed....

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3798726/Pictured-Pakistan-trip-changed-tubby-terrorist-brother-posted-pro-jihad-messages-online.html
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    murali_s said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    murali_s said:

    O/T Anthropogenic Global Warming:

    It's getting a bit boring now but August 2016 was the warmest August ever recorded globally. The June to August season was the warmest ever and the year to date (Jan-Aug) was the warmest ever. The UN's soft ceiling of limiting temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels is looking very stretching to say the least.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201608

    Anyway, this is PB and some of the Breibart reading loons will continue to sprout out garbage such as "AGW Tough" and so on. The facts are the facts - take note!

    Weather is not climate, and without the raw figures and a detailed explanation of their rationale for adjusting them to get the published figures the data is as meaningful as a pre brexit opinion poll.
    Who's talking about weather here? Not NOAA...

    NOAA doesn't talk about the weather. He just builds a bloody big boat and rides it out.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Is Labour under Corbyn becoming an anti-semetic, pro islamic, fascist party?
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    MarkHopkins said:

    murali_s said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    murali_s said:

    O/T Anthropogenic Global Warming:

    It's getting a bit boring now but August 2016 was the warmest August ever recorded globally. The June to August season was the warmest ever and the year to date (Jan-Aug) was the warmest ever. The UN's soft ceiling of limiting temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels is looking very stretching to say the least.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201608

    Anyway, this is PB and some of the Breibart reading loons will continue to sprout out garbage such as "AGW Tough" and so on. The facts are the facts - take note!

    Weather is not climate, and without the raw figures and a detailed explanation of their rationale for adjusting them to get the published figures the data is as meaningful as a pre brexit opinion poll.
    Who's talking about weather here? Not NOAA...

    NOAA doesn't talk about the weather. He just builds a bloody big boat and rides it out.

    :lol:
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    MikeK said:

    Is Labour under Corbyn becoming an anti-semetic, pro islamic, fascist party?

    Is that the socialist people's democratic freedom equivalent of "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog ?"
  • BaskervilleBaskerville Posts: 391
    Moses_ said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    murali_s said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    murali_s said:

    O/T Anthropogenic Global Warming:

    It's getting a bit boring now but August 2016 was the warmest August ever recorded globally. The June to August season was the warmest ever and the year to date (Jan-Aug) was the warmest ever. The UN's soft ceiling of limiting temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels is looking very stretching to say the least.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201608

    Anyway, this is PB and some of the Breibart reading loons will continue to sprout out garbage such as "AGW Tough" and so on. The facts are the facts - take note!

    Weather is not climate, and without the raw figures and a detailed explanation of their rationale for adjusting them to get the published figures the data is as meaningful as a pre brexit opinion poll.
    Who's talking about weather here? Not NOAA...

    NOAA doesn't talk about the weather. He just builds a bloody big boat and rides it out.

    :lol:
    So, come on Moses, this is your area isn't it? Can you part rising seas?
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    MikeK said:

    Is Labour under Corbyn becoming an anti-semetic, pro islamic, fascist party?

    No. It became that while Corbyn was still in short trousers. I would go back a good 60 years to see the start of what you describe.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,837
    HYUFD said:

    Kippers and Cybernats can often be almost as bad as Corbynistas, they represent the 3 most passionate forces in British politics today, Brexit, Scottish nationalism and Corbynism. However if the police can trace you they can take action if tweets are too threatening

    Social media provides people with an opportunity to feel involved in day-to-day political debate - or at least the illusion of involvement - whilst effectively leaving the average member or activist no less disenfranchised than before. This formula quickly leads to frustration and sometimes anger, in the belief that expressing views in the most extreme way possibly might have some impact. Before social media came along, all but the leading party members were essentially spectators, barring the occasional opportunity to participate at a conference or go to a local general meeting.
  • William_HWilliam_H Posts: 346
    What happened when Jo Cox said people should stay in the EU?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,651
    MikeK said:

    Is Labour under Corbyn becoming an anti-semetic, pro islamic, fascist party?

    No absolutely not...they had an independent inquiry and everything to tell them it isn't.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Baskerville said:

    Moses_ said:

    MarkHopkins said:

    murali_s said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    murali_s said:

    O/T Anthropogenic Global Warming:

    It's getting a bit boring now but August 2016 was the warmest August ever recorded globally. The June to August season was the warmest ever and the year to date (Jan-Aug) was the warmest ever. The UN's soft ceiling of limiting temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels is looking very stretching to say the least.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201608

    Anyway, this is PB and some of the Breibart reading loons will continue to sprout out garbage such as "AGW Tough" and so on. The facts are the facts - take note!

    Weather is not climate, and without the raw figures and a detailed explanation of their rationale for adjusting them to get the published figures the data is as meaningful as a pre brexit opinion poll.
    Who's talking about weather here? Not NOAA...

    NOAA doesn't talk about the weather. He just builds a bloody big boat and rides it out.

    :lol:
    So, come on Moses, this is your area isn't it? Can you part rising seas?
    Indeed.... Though oddly I have more success with beer?

    You should also see my basket weaving skills as well. Can't think where I got those from....

    :smile:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Kippers and Cybernats can often be almost as bad as Corbynistas, they represent the 3 most passionate forces in British politics today, Brexit, Scottish nationalism and Corbynism. However if the police can trace you they can take action if tweets are too threatening

    Social media provides people with an opportunity to feel involved in day-to-day political debate - or at least the illusion of involvement - whilst effectively leaving the average member or activist no less disenfranchised than before. This formula quickly leads to frustration and sometimes anger, in the belief that expressing views in the most extreme way possibly might have some impact. Before social media came along, all but the leading party members were essentially spectators, barring the occasional opportunity to participate at a conference or go to a local general meeting.
    Indeed, though it also can be an effective tool at mobilising supporters, as Corbyn has found in his leadership campaigns
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    George HW Bush reportedly told Kathleen Kennedy Townsend he is voting for Hillary in November
    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/exclusive-george-hw-bush-to-vote-for-hillary-228395
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,898
    MikeK said:

    Is Labour under Corbyn becoming an anti-semetic, pro islamic, fascist party?

    Not so much fascist as fantasist.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    I see todays NEC adds 2 anti Corbyn members subject to conference agreement. Now 17-18 rather than 17-16.

    I think that will mean John Ashworth will be replaced by Jezza. Lewis my tip for NEC 18-17.

    Meanwhile GMB entryists will soon be in a position to overturn their Anti Corbyn stance. I predict 21-14 in 12 months time.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,201
    Hmm.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/777995273150861312
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited September 2016
    I agree this shows a coarsening of politics ...

    But, really is "Drop Dean Yvette" any better or worse than "I'll Knife Corbyn in the Front" (Jess Phillips) or "I'll Smash Teresa May Back on Her Heels" (Owen Smith) ?

    Corbyn has some abusive followers, but there is plenty of abuse on the other side as well.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,651
    edited September 2016
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Hmm.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/777995273150861312

    And in comparison the media gets all over excited when the Tories are spotted with a glass of shampoo....anyway, who are these lib dems, what do they do?
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    William_H said:

    What happened when Jo Cox said people should stay in the EU?

    I refer you to NPXMP post at 8.01pm on this thread.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,651
    edited September 2016
    Cameron got one thing right.....too many tweets make a ....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Hmm.

    Farron's speech went down well then?
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Hmm.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/777995273150861312

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Hmm.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/777995273150861312

    Don't you just love the smell of liberalism in the evening?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Cameron got one thing right.....too many tweets make a ....

    President?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    NickPalmer said:

    It's horrible, but really I don't think that 500,000 people mostly with instant social media access can be kept entirely orderly. This type of thing was not that rare before but generally done face to face - I've been called aany number of abusive names (some of them on here), as well as having diverse threats including one (probably not very serious) murder threat. Now, the same sort of thing goes onto a blog or social media post, often anonymously, and then gets seized on to make someone's political point.

    I'm afraid it's the new normal, and not just for Labour: all any party can do is throw out anyone who's caught doing it.

    How many have Labour thrown out? Corbyn does nothing about it
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Hmm.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/777995273150861312

    And in comparison the media gets all over excited when the Tories are spotted with a glass of shampoo....anyway, who are these lib dems, what do they do?
    Trying to figure out if a "glass of shampoo" is a glorious typo along the lines of (Pardon the pun) snorting lines of "coriander"

    Whatever floats your Arc I suppose?

    :wink:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,651
    edited September 2016
    Moses_ said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Hmm.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/777995273150861312

    And in comparison the media gets all over excited when the Tories are spotted with a glass of shampoo....anyway, who are these lib dems, what do they do?
    Trying to figure out if a "glass of shampoo" is a glorious typo along the lines of (Pardon the pun) snorting lines of "coriander"

    Whatever floats your Arc I suppose?

    :wink:
    No it was deliberate. Its what Mrs Urquhart likes to refer to it as.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Moses_ said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Hmm.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/777995273150861312

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Hmm.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/777995273150861312

    Don't you just love the smell of liberalism in the evening?
    Shocking how much venom comes out of lefties and Remoaners.

  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    So he has previously stabbed people, caught carrying weapons and gone to a Jahadi hotbed....

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3798726/Pictured-Pakistan-trip-changed-tubby-terrorist-brother-posted-pro-jihad-messages-online.html

    Well, you know how these young people called Dave are. High-spirited. Kids being kids
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Moses_ said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Hmm.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/777995273150861312

    And in comparison the media gets all over excited when the Tories are spotted with a glass of shampoo....anyway, who are these lib dems, what do they do?
    Trying to figure out if a "glass of shampoo" is a glorious typo along the lines of (Pardon the pun) snorting lines of "coriander"

    Whatever floats your Arc I suppose?

    :wink:
    No it was deliberate. Its what Mrs Urquhart likes to refer to it as.
    *raises glass of shampoo to Mrs Urquart"

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Why is it that some JC backers are such nasty pieces of work?

    Don’t see things improving soon sadly. Women especially seem to be targeted for abuse.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    EU accepts Bosnia's membership application
    https://www.eureporter.co/frontpage/2016/09/20/eu-accepts-bosniaherzegovina-membership-application/
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Finally! Some North Dakota polling

    https://www.scribd.com/mobile/document/324685567/ND-Pres-DFM-Research-Sept-2016

    Trump +9 which is the margin McCain won by.
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    Cookie said:

    "This didn't happen before Jeremy Corbyn came on the scene"? It happened, just not to Labour MPs. Tories have always been the target of this sort of abuse. Remember the vitroil, personal threats and vandalism aimed at the (female) Tory candidate for (I think) Bristol North West at (I think) the last general election - or maybe the one before? And all the abuse targeted at Esther McVey? This sort of thing is a direct result of a mindset who think that those who disagree with them are not just wrong, but evil, beyond the pale. The mainstream left - the likes of Stephen Pound, Tony Banks, even Gordon Brown - have encouraged this attitude in the past. It is now coming back to bite them. Of course, I have every sympathy for the likes of Jess Philips, Angela Eagle and others who have been the victims of this this time around - but this is a monster of the left's own making.

    Well said.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,619
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Moses_ said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Hmm.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/777995273150861312

    And in comparison the media gets all over excited when the Tories are spotted with a glass of shampoo....anyway, who are these lib dems, what do they do?
    Trying to figure out if a "glass of shampoo" is a glorious typo along the lines of (Pardon the pun) snorting lines of "coriander"

    Whatever floats your Arc I suppose?

    :wink:
    No it was deliberate. Its what Mrs Urquhart likes to refer to it as.
    Some die hard yuppies even refer to it as 'poo. Which you really don't want a glass of.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    HYUFD said:

    EU accepts Bosnia's membership application
    https://www.eureporter.co/frontpage/2016/09/20/eu-accepts-bosniaherzegovina-membership-application/

    Bosnia for Britain. A fair exchange?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Lift the stones of any political party and you find some pretty unpleasant creatures wriggling in the dark. There are more Corbynites so there are more unpleasant creatures to be found there. I'm not sure that they're proportionately more numerous.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,780
    SquareRoot said:

    NickPalmer said:

    It's horrible, but really I don't think that 500,000 people mostly with instant social media access can be kept entirely orderly. This type of thing was not that rare before but generally done face to face - I've been called aany number of abusive names (some of them on here), as well as having diverse threats including one (probably not very serious) murder threat. Now, the same sort of thing goes onto a blog or social media post, often anonymously, and then gets seized on to make someone's political point.

    I'm afraid it's the new normal, and not just for Labour: all any party can do is throw out anyone who's caught doing it.

    How many have Labour thrown out? Corbyn does nothing about it
    There are subjects Corbyn speaks with clarity and passion about and subjects he does not. Like most politicians, in fact, but you can see the seams far more readily with Corbyn. It does not besmirch the man to judge him accordingly.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,873
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    murali_s said:

    O/T Anthropogenic Global Warming:

    It's getting a bit boring now but August 2016 was the warmest August ever recorded globally. The June to August season was the warmest ever and the year to date (Jan-Aug) was the warmest ever. The UN's soft ceiling of limiting temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels is looking very stretching to say the least.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201608

    Anyway, this is PB and some of the Breibart reading loons will continue to sprout out garbage such as "AGW Tough" and so on. The facts are the facts - take note!

    Weather is not climate, and without the raw figures and a detailed explanation of their rationale for adjusting them to get the published figures the data is as meaningful as a pre brexit opinion poll.
    Here you go:

    GISS Surface Temperature Analysis (GISTEMP)

    It's worth checking out the FAQ first.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    edited September 2016
    MTimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    EU accepts Bosnia's membership application
    https://www.eureporter.co/frontpage/2016/09/20/eu-accepts-bosniaherzegovina-membership-application/

    Bosnia for Britain. A fair exchange?
    Macedonia, maybe Albania and Serbia too. The EU may punish the UK somewhat for refusing to accept full freedom of movement, however I am sure the Germans, French and Dutch will be delighted to accept all the migrants they will get from the Balkans as good, proud Europeans just as Monsieur Juncker would expect of them! We nasty, racist Brits will be greatly deprived of this new wave of diversity due to our foolishness
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    <
    SimonStClare said:

    Why is it that some JC backers are such nasty pieces of work?

    Don’t see things improving soon sadly. Women especially seem to be targeted for abuse.

    It makes you wonder if the over the top hair trigger analist obsession that many on the normal left seem to have with sexism and similar -ism issues is because of the vile behavour of their own members and fellow travellers that they have personal experience of.
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    HYUFD said:

    EU accepts Bosnia's membership application
    https://www.eureporter.co/frontpage/2016/09/20/eu-accepts-bosniaherzegovina-membership-application/

    Taxi!
  • Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    murali_s said:

    O/T Anthropogenic Global Warming:

    It's getting a bit boring now but August 2016 was the warmest August ever recorded globally. The June to August season was the warmest ever and the year to date (Jan-Aug) was the warmest ever. The UN's soft ceiling of limiting temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels is looking very stretching to say the least.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201608

    Anyway, this is PB and some of the Breibart reading loons will continue to sprout out garbage such as "AGW Tough" and so on. The facts are the facts - take note!

    Weather is not climate, and without the raw figures and a detailed explanation of their rationale for adjusting them to get the published figures the data is as meaningful as a pre brexit opinion poll.
    Here you go:

    GISS Surface Temperature Analysis (GISTEMP)

    It's worth checking out the FAQ first.
    That dosent seem to give the raw data for each measuring station and how much it is adjusted by and why, nor does it seem to state which areas are measured and which are estimated?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Clinton currently 1.3% ahead of Trump in RCP poll average. Also down to a 55.5% chance of winning the Presidency on the fivethirtyeight forecast, a record low score. More interesting times...
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    RE: Nastiness amongst our so called elite.

    A Conservative Remainer MP referred to people who voted LEAVE as Neanderthals. This will be widely communicated by the time their reselection comes up to the selectorate.
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,414
    Black_Rook said:

    Clinton currently 1.3% ahead of Trump in RCP poll average. Also down to a 55.5% chance of winning the Presidency on the fivethirtyeight forecast, a record low score. More interesting times...

    It's 52-48 in the Now-cast
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    HYUFD said:

    EU accepts Bosnia's membership application
    https://www.eureporter.co/frontpage/2016/09/20/eu-accepts-bosniaherzegovina-membership-application/

    Taxi!
    If Bosnia and Albania and Serbia now all end up joining the EU, which Juncker seems determined to rush along, the EU will soon start finding that the UK was just the start in the rush for the exit door, indeed for every new member state and wave of migration to western Europe, another western European state may start the process of leaving
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    The transformative effect of the Euro for prosperity and democratic values: number 3,744 in a continuing series...

    Greece, Alco poll

    ND-EPP: 32%
    SYRIZA-LEFT: 23% ↑
    XA-NI: 10%
    KKE-NI: 7% ↓
    PASOK-S&D: 6% ↑
    EK-ALDE: 4%
    PE-NI: 4% ↑
    LK-LEFT: 3% ↓
    ANEL-ECR: 3%

    Genuine Neo-Nazis poll in third place in economically ruined Greece, followed by hard line Marxists. Rather like the National Front and the SWP polling nearly a fifth of the vote between them in Britain. Horrible.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,543
    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant analysis of the Trump phenomenon. With huge echoes of Brexit

    https://medium.com/@Chris_arnade/trump-politics-and-option-pricing-or-why-trump-voters-are-not-idiots-1e364a4ed940#.w0mbxqipm

    And a new thread on same theme:

    https://twitter.com/Chris_arnade/status/778289870456360961

    Also, relatedly, lots of the New Nastiness in politics is coming from the elite, and directed at the Trump/Leave proles.

    A good example of the New (or old) Nastiness is linked to on RCP, Zak Beauchamp, How Racism Gave Us Trump, Brexit, and the New Politics. Amongst other things, in a wide-ranging essay, he seems to argue that the Baltic peoples deserved what they got at Soviet hands.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    RE: Nastiness amongst our so called elite.

    A Conservative Remainer MP referred to people who voted LEAVE as Neanderthals. This will be widely communicated by the time their reselection comes up to the selectorate.

    Who?
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    NYT
    Ahmad Khan Rahami's father told police that his son was a terrorist in 2014 after a domestic dispute https://t.co/6wMjDubd0G
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2016
    I think there are two separate points here. Yes, there is definitely a new nasty streak within Labour, and particularly the Corbynista tendency, which the civil war within the party is exacerbating. Mixed with the holier-than-thou hypocrisy of the left, it's particularly striking. (Incidentally, was I the only one to notice that the LibDem conference slogan of 'Open, Tolerant, United' was particularly sanctimonious? It's an inward-looking slogan, all about how they think they are superior to everyone else, rather than about how they propose to make things better for voters).

    But perhaps the bigger issue is a very unpleasant trend over the last three or four years for increasingly threatening behaviour towards MPs of all parties, and by no means only from Corbynistas. This is manifested in a particularly vicious way towards women MPs; the appalling Jo Cox murder was of course the most extreme example, but women MPs of all parties are getting some very nasty abuse. Jess Phillips and others have gone public about it, and even received further abuse for taking sensible precautions. Others, such as my own MP Nus Ghani - not only a woman, but also a Muslim, and therefore doubly a target for some of the nutters out there - haven't said much in public but nonetheless have good reason to be very concerned for the safety of themselves, their families and their staff.

    We have, in the UK, a very accessible political class; you can meet MPs and even senior cabinet ministers without much if anything in the way of security. This long tradition of tolerance and openness is under threat.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    SeanT said:

    50% of Australians want to "ban Muslim immigration". Completely. That's further to the right than Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/21/race-discrimination-commissioner-criticises-pauline-hanson-for-stoking-division?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Something huge and serious is happening to western politics. Brexit is just part of it.

    My fear as a pro-European is that Brexit doesn't have much to do with it - people just took the best opportunity they had to kick the table over - and therefore the British establishment will completely fail to understand the message they have been given. If this happens we'll end up behind even the rest of Western Europe in responding to the changes around us, and will come to regret reaching for the apparent quick fix of leaving the EU.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,873
    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    FeersumEnjineeya said:

    Paul_Bedfordshire said:

    murali_s said:

    O/T Anthropogenic Global Warming:

    It's getting a bit boring now but August 2016 was the warmest August ever recorded globally. The June to August season was the warmest ever and the year to date (Jan-Aug) was the warmest ever. The UN's soft ceiling of limiting temperature rises to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels is looking very stretching to say the least.

    https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201608

    Anyway, this is PB and some of the Breibart reading loons will continue to sprout out garbage such as "AGW Tough" and so on. The facts are the facts - take note!

    Weather is not climate, and without the raw figures and a detailed explanation of their rationale for adjusting them to get the published figures the data is as meaningful as a pre brexit opinion poll.
    Here you go:

    GISS Surface Temperature Analysis (GISTEMP)

    It's worth checking out the FAQ first.
    That dosent seem to give the raw data for each measuring station and how much it is adjusted by and why, nor does it seem to state which areas are measured and which are estimated?
    Yes, it does. Look at the links. The individual station data is available at:

    http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/stdata/

    The software used to determine the global temperature from the station data is available here:

    http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/sources_v3/

    There's more information in FAQ, but the main reasons for adjusting data are to account for variations in the time of day at which measurements were taken, and to compensate for station moves. It's also necessary to compensate for such things as encroachment by urban areas or stations becoming overgrown. The general idea is to determine, as well as possible, what a historical temperature would have been if it were taken under standardised conditions.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    GarethoftheVale2 said:

    Black_Rook said:

    Clinton currently 1.3% ahead of Trump in RCP poll average. Also down to a 55.5% chance of winning the Presidency on the fivethirtyeight forecast, a record low score. More interesting times...

    It's 52-48 in the Now-cast
    Someone will doubtless appear before long to remind me that Clinton has a firewall, and that there aren't quite enough swing states available to see Trump over the finishing line. I'm even less of an authority on American elections than I am on British ones, so they'll probably be proven right. HOWEVER... I still harbour this sneaking suspicion that Trump might just pull it off.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    50% of Australians want to "ban Muslim immigration". Completely. That's further to the right than Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/21/race-discrimination-commissioner-criticises-pauline-hanson-for-stoking-division?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Something huge and serious is happening to western politics. Brexit is just part of it.

    My fear as a pro-European is that Brexit doesn't have much to do with it - people just took the best opportunity they had to kick the table over - and therefore the British establishment will completely fail to understand the message they have been given. If this happens we'll end up behind even the rest of Western Europe in responding to the changes around us, and will come to regret reaching for the apparent quick fix of leaving the EU.
    I am sure we will regret welcoming hundreds of thousands of Albanians and Bosnians to our shores as it now looks like the French and Germans will be doing in a few years time
  • glwglw Posts: 10,516
    edited September 2016
    SeanT said:

    This is a brilliant analysis of the Trump phenomenon. With huge echoes of Brexit

    https://medium.com/@Chris_arnade/trump-politics-and-option-pricing-or-why-trump-voters-are-not-idiots-1e364a4ed940#.w0mbxqipm


    I don't know if anyone else listens to Dan Carlin's podcast Common Sense, but this is something he has been saying for a couple of years now at least.

    As any trader will tell you, if you are stuck lower, you want volatility, uncertainty. No matter how it comes. Put another way. Your downside is flat, your upside isn’t. Break the system.

    Trump is a box of dynamite for blowing apart a cosy consensus between two parties that have ignored a lot of ordinary Americans, whilst those parties gorge themselves on money from lobbyists who mostly represent the elite/establishment/rich.

    So whenever someone like Clinton says "Trump's a horrible racist who will cause all kinds of trouble," that's actually part of his appeal. The worse Trump is the more likely he is to end the current political consensus, and force Republican and Democrats to pay attention to those who vote for him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    50% of Australians want to "ban Muslim immigration". Completely. That's further to the right than Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/21/race-discrimination-commissioner-criticises-pauline-hanson-for-stoking-division?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Something huge and serious is happening to western politics. Brexit is just part of it.

    My fear as a pro-European is that Brexit doesn't have much to do with it - people just took the best opportunity they had to kick the table over - and therefore the British establishment will completely fail to understand the message they have been given. If this happens we'll end up behind even the rest of Western Europe in responding to the changes around us, and will come to regret reaching for the apparent quick fix of leaving the EU.
    Your europhilia is just ludicrous. And its blinding you to the obvious.

    Merkel's invitation to 1.3m mainly Muslim refugees was hugely important in the Brexit victory. Many voters realised we had no control on them eventually coming to the UK. So that was one reason they voted OUT.

    The Paris atrocities likewise.
    50.7% of Bosnians are Muslims
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina#Ethnic_groups
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Update on North Carolina mail in ballots

    http://www.oldnorthstatepolitics.com/2016/09/nc-absentee-by-mail-in-ballots-as-of-9.html?m=1
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    BigRich said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    RE: Nastiness amongst our so called elite.

    A Conservative Remainer MP referred to people who voted LEAVE as Neanderthals. This will be widely communicated by the time their reselection comes up to the selectorate.

    Who?
    That will come out at the right/worst time for them.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    SeanT said:

    50% of Australians want to "ban Muslim immigration". Completely. That's further to the right than Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/21/race-discrimination-commissioner-criticises-pauline-hanson-for-stoking-division?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Something huge and serious is happening to western politics. Brexit is just part of it.

    Has the same question been asked here? Because I should imagine the results would be similar.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    50% of Australians want to "ban Muslim immigration". Completely. That's further to the right than Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/21/race-discrimination-commissioner-criticises-pauline-hanson-for-stoking-division?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Something huge and serious is happening to western politics. Brexit is just part of it.

    My fear as a pro-European is that Brexit doesn't have much to do with it - people just took the best opportunity they had to kick the table over - and therefore the British establishment will completely fail to understand the message they have been given. If this happens we'll end up behind even the rest of Western Europe in responding to the changes around us, and will come to regret reaching for the apparent quick fix of leaving the EU.
    Your europhilia is just ludicrous. And its blinding you to the obvious.

    Merkel's invitation to 1.3m mainly Muslim refugees was hugely important in the Brexit victory. Many voters realised we had no control on them eventually coming to the UK. So that was one reason they voted OUT.

    The Paris atrocities likewise.
    I'm sure you're right, and it pains me to see one of my political heroes ending up as the villain of the piece. She (and the Austrians) took one a one-off decision to allow people to come from Hungary to be processed in Germany and alongside that she tried to uphold treaty commitments on refugees that we're all signed up to. That this became seen as an open invitation was mainly the result of hugely irresponsible reporting.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,769
    Black_Rook said:

    GarethoftheVale2 said:

    Black_Rook said:

    Clinton currently 1.3% ahead of Trump in RCP poll average. Also down to a 55.5% chance of winning the Presidency on the fivethirtyeight forecast, a record low score. More interesting times...

    It's 52-48 in the Now-cast
    Someone will doubtless appear before long to remind me that Clinton has a firewall, and that there aren't quite enough swing states available to see Trump over the finishing line. I'm even less of an authority on American elections than I am on British ones, so they'll probably be proven right. HOWEVER... I still harbour this sneaking suspicion that Trump might just pull it off.
    Unfortunately it’s hard to make a profit betting simultaneously on both sides.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    50% of Australians want to "ban Muslim immigration". Completely. That's further to the right than Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/21/race-discrimination-commissioner-criticises-pauline-hanson-for-stoking-division?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Something huge and serious is happening to western politics. Brexit is just part of it.

    My fear as a pro-European is that Brexit doesn't have much to do with it - people just took the best opportunity they had to kick the table over - and therefore the British establishment will completely fail to understand the message they have been given. If this happens we'll end up behind even the rest of Western Europe in responding to the changes around us, and will come to regret reaching for the apparent quick fix of leaving the EU.
    Your europhilia is just ludicrous. And its blinding you to the obvious.

    Merkel's invitation to 1.3m mainly Muslim refugees was hugely important in the Brexit victory. Many voters realised we had no control on them eventually coming to the UK. So that was one reason they voted OUT.

    The Paris atrocities likewise.
    I'm sure you're right, and it pains me to see one of my political heroes ending up as the villain of the piece. She (and the Austrians) took one a one-off decision to allow people to come from Hungary to be processed in Germany and alongside that she tried to uphold treaty commitments on refugees that we're all signed up to. That this became seen as an open invitation was mainly the result of hugely irresponsible reporting.
    Oh, yeah. Blame the media. Sure, right.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/20/bbc-journalists-paid-up-to-40-per-cent-more-than-commercial-riva/
    "They found that among 1,125 BBC senior broadcast journalists, a rank that covers many junior reporters and producers, the median pay was £49,000, forty per cent more than the average of £35,000 earned by those in comparable roles in the private sector."
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Black_Rook said:

    GarethoftheVale2 said:

    Black_Rook said:

    Clinton currently 1.3% ahead of Trump in RCP poll average. Also down to a 55.5% chance of winning the Presidency on the fivethirtyeight forecast, a record low score. More interesting times...

    It's 52-48 in the Now-cast
    Someone will doubtless appear before long to remind me that Clinton has a firewall, and that there aren't quite enough swing states available to see Trump over the finishing line. I'm even less of an authority on American elections than I am on British ones, so they'll probably be proven right. HOWEVER... I still harbour this sneaking suspicion that Trump might just pull it off.
    Here is one such article pointing out the massive early voting windows in US states favour the side with the best GOTV operation.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-09-20/gaming-the-six-week-election-day
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Black_Rook said:

    HOWEVER... I still harbour this sneaking suspicion that Trump might just pull it off.

    To my mind there's no reason why Trump shouldn't win a state like Oregon and I wouldn't be surprised to see him pick up a few in new England that aren't currently seen as in play. The assumptions about the electoral college arithmetic may be quite wrong.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    SeanT said:

    williamglenn said:

    SeanT said:

    50% of Australians want to "ban Muslim immigration". Completely. That's further to the right than Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/sep/21/race-discrimination-commissioner-criticises-pauline-hanson-for-stoking-division?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Something huge and serious is happening to western politics. Brexit is just part of it.

    My fear as a pro-European is that Brexit doesn't have much to do with it - people just took the best opportunity they had to kick the table over - and therefore the British establishment will completely fail to understand the message they have been given. If this happens we'll end up behind even the rest of Western Europe in responding to the changes around us, and will come to regret reaching for the apparent quick fix of leaving the EU.
    Your europhilia is just ludicrous. And its blinding you to the obvious.

    Merkel's invitation to 1.3m mainly Muslim refugees was hugely important in the Brexit victory. Many voters realised we had no control on them eventually coming to the UK. So that was one reason they voted OUT.

    The Paris atrocities likewise.
    The Brexit vote was 1. A declaration that British laws should be made in Britain, not Belgium, and 2. A repudiation of uncontrolled, completely open borders. Diverse and democratic societies cannot function if (a) the power of the people to change their governments is diluted and (b) too many incomers are allowed in at once, causing society to become atomised into separate, self-segregating communities. Mercifully, a majority (just about) of UK voters came to these broad conclusions, and voted to be rid of the EU accordingly.

    Transplanting huge and unsustainable numbers of people from poor and unstable societies to rich and stable ones won't improve the quality of life for the recipient nations - it will simply make them more like the ones from which the migrants originated, that's all.
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