I must say that Tom Watson referring to Drenge in his resignation is quite eccentric. Ed Miliband should have responded in his letter by quoting Bruce Springsteen:
"So say goodbye it's Independence Day All men must make their way come Independence Day."
Not everyone has my rare talent for slipping in subtle musical references into letters and articles.
But today it is clear out of Ed and Tom Watson who is Master and Servant.
I once slipped "If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next" into a formal letter of advice (subsequently reviewed by a QC). That remains my highpoint.
Please tell me that the client or the QC was called Kevin Carter.
I once wrote a report which referenced songs inter alia, Westlife, Take That, Boyzone and New Kids on The Block.
In the name of all that is good and decent on this Board, I wish to deplore and disassociate myself from those - and you know who you are - so cruelly and cowardly displaying such unfeeling schadenfreude at tim's obvious pain and discomfort. Everyone knows the restraint and generosity of spirit he would exercise were the positions reversed,
I must say that Tom Watson referring to Drenge in his resignation is quite eccentric. Ed Miliband should have responded in his letter by quoting Bruce Springsteen:
"So say goodbye it's Independence Day All men must make their way come Independence Day."
Once upon a time, there was a very famous priest (Miliband) in a very old religion (Labour). He decided it was the right day to perform the ritual sacrificing of a goat. In his ignorance, he thought this was an offering demanded by his god. (the media)
He obtained an appropriate goat for the sacrifice (Watson). He ordered his servants (the Blairites) to take the goat to the holy river (Thames) and wash him and decorate him with flower garlands (left over from Glastonbury). Then they were to wash themselves, as part of the purification (putrification?) practice.
Down at the riverbank, the goat (Watson) suddenly understood that today he would definitely be killed (after trying career suicide the previous day). He also became aware of his past births and deaths and rebirths (under Blair/Brown/Miliband). He realized that the results of his past unwholesome deeds were about to finally be completed (or were about to be revealed). So he laughed an uproarious goat-laugh, like the clanging of cymbals (and then talked about music).
In the midst of his laughter, he realized another truth that the priest, by sacrificing him, would suffer the same terrible results, due to his ignorance. So he began to cry as loudly as he had just been laughing! (And we all joined in)
This is from one of the pieces I linked to in nighthawks last night
Cameron’s attacks achieved one very obvious thing: they delighted the Tory benches who largely seem to hate unions with a passion.
But to be heard by voters, the prime minister is relying on people still viewing trade unions as a serious power in the country.
Having said that, given that those in their 50s and above are both most likely to remember that being the case and most likely to vote, this may be a well-calculated strategy.
In the name of all that is good and decent on this Board, I wish to deplore and disassociate myself from those - and you know who you are - so cruelly and cowardly displaying such unfeeling schadenfreude at tim's obvious pain and discomfort. Everyone knows the restraint and generosity of spirit he would exercise were the positions reversed,
JackW - Even if independence is defeated and Labour hold their own in Scotland or even increase their vote, the SNP will still hope to pick up some seats from the Scottish LDs, particularly in rural areas, if independence is defeated they may even get some Labour tactical votes to do so, and with the Union safe the Tories in those seats will hardly be perturbed by SNP gains
The position of the Scottish LibDems is most odd. It mirrors their colleagues south of the border but with knobs on.
Essentially their support is very weak, indeed almost vanished, in areas where they were previously polling mediocre to bad. However in those small pockets of traditional strength they are holding up better but still under severe pressure.
It'll come down to personal vote, local organization and perhaps a small general improvement in the polls. They may end up polling 8-12% and lose only a few seats aided perhaps by a split in the vote in some seats.
We earnestly believe that the noble Viscount Thurso and his follicular trimmings enjoy a safe return to the HoC.
In the name of all that is good and decent on this Board, I wish to deplore and disassociate myself from those - and you know who you are - so cruelly and cowardly displaying such unfeeling schadenfreude at tim's obvious pain and discomfort. Everyone knows the restraint and generosity of spirit he would exercise were the positions reversed,
Jack W - Indeed, will be interesting to watch on election night, though like you I am fond of Viscount Thurso, who is both posher than Dave and the most famous non-Tory Old Etonian in the present parliament
In the name of all that is good and decent on this Board, I wish to deplore and disassociate myself from those - and you know who you are - so cruelly and cowardly displaying such unfeeling schadenfreude at tim's obvious pain and discomfort. Everyone knows the restraint and generosity of spirit he would exercise were the positions reversed,
The SNP should be absolutely financially broke and exhausted after the Independence referendum. As a supporter of the Yes campaign, but not of the SNP, I will be disappointed if they hold anything back for the 2015 election.
It certainly doesn't look like little Ed's "root and branch reform" was a roaring success. SLAB starting to run about like headless chickens yet again. How very, very sad. ;(
Me to light of my life: "have you heard of Tom Watson?" LOML: Can you give me a context? Me: He is an MP and was campaign manager for the Labour party. He resigned today. LOML: oh, why? Me: well there is this big story about Falkirk and the rigging of the selection of the Parliamentary candidate there. LOML: It's not been in the Courier. Me (slightly desperate) It's all about Unite and Len McCluskey apparently getting lots of new members to rig the vote. LOML: Oh.
So fun although this all is don't expect a big move on Yougov.
Me to light of my life: "have you heard of Tom Watson?" LOML: Can you give me a context? Me: He is an MP and was campaign manager for the Labour party. He resigned today. LOML: oh, why? Me: well there is this big story about Falkirk and the rigging of the selection of the Parliamentary candidate there. LOML: It's not been in the Courier. Me (slightly desperate) It's all about Unite and Len McCluskey apparently getting lots of new members to rig the vote. LOML: Oh.
So fun although this all is don't expect a big move on Yougov.
I suspect that is largely true of most. It's more the impact on the morale of the parliamentary Labour party and the narrative of Milliband's weakness that could have a longer term impact. Also we don't know if this represents the beginning or the end of the issue.
Paddy Power have just shortened their price on the Indyref turnout market - More than 64% - to 8/11.
Looks like free money to me as it is pretty much inconceivable that turnout will be weak come next September. Not unless it looks like a walkover for one side or the other, which looks unlikely right now. And even then, I'd still expect a strong turnout on the day.
Well, Watson has given us the most psychedelic resignation letter in British political history. Glastonbury? Merry-go-rounds? Buddha? When you consider McCluskey's statement of 'support' yesterday ('Ed Miliband is still leader of the Labour Party') it becomes clear that these people are just taking the p*ss out of Ed. I don't think they have Ed's interest at heart. I'm wondering if there will soon be moves to depose Ed.
JackW - Even if independence is defeated and Labour hold their own in Scotland or even increase their vote, the SNP will still hope to pick up some seats from the Scottish LDs, particularly in rural areas, if independence is defeated they may even get some Labour tactical votes to do so, and with the Union safe the Tories in those seats will hardly be perturbed by SNP gains
The position of the Scottish LibDems is most odd. It mirrors their colleagues south of the border but with knobs on.
Essentially their support is very weak, indeed almost vanished, in areas where they were previously polling mediocre to bad. However in those small pockets of traditional strength they are holding up better but still under severe pressure.
It'll come down to personal vote, local organization and perhaps a small general improvement in the polls. They may end up polling 8-12% and lose only a few seats aided perhaps by a split in the vote in some seats.
We earnestly believe that the noble Viscount Thurso and his follicular trimmings enjoy a safe return to the HoC.
I shall, in a few weeks be attending a family party with a Scottish Lib Dem councillor, a relation by marriage. I shall try and discuss the situation and report.
Me to light of my life: "have you heard of Tom Watson?" LOML: Can you give me a context? Me: He is an MP and was campaign manager for the Labour party. He resigned today. LOML: oh, why? Me: well there is this big story about Falkirk and the rigging of the selection of the Parliamentary candidate there. LOML: It's not been in the Courier. Me (slightly desperate) It's all about Unite and Len McCluskey apparently getting lots of new members to rig the vote. LOML: Oh.
So fun although this all is don't expect a big move on Yougov.
Very, very few things that animate PB posters animate normal voters out there in the big wide real world. Politicians and politics junkies are atypical, and are usually pretty useless at spotting the really important trends and stories.
Well, Watson has given us the most psychedelic resignation letter in British political history. Glastonbury? Merry-go-rounds? Buddha? When you consider McCluskey's statement of 'support' yesterday ('Ed Miliband is still leader of the Labour Party') it becomes clear that these people are just taking the p*ss out of Ed. I don't think they have Ed's interest at heart. I'm wondering if there will soon be moves to depose Ed.
Paddy Power have just shortened their price on the Indyref turnout market - More than 64% - to 8/11.
Looks like free money to me as it is pretty much inconceivable that turnout will be weak come next September. Not unless it looks like a walkover for one side or the other, which looks unlikely right now. And even then, I'd still expect a strong turnout on the day.
Turnout for devolution in 1997: 60.4%. If 60% were willing to turn out to vote for that foregone conclusion you are probably right. Still think that those that voted yes should be getting sent invoices though.
Fans of local by-elections may be interested in taking part in the VoteUK weekly prediction competition, which paradoxically is organised on a monthly basis.
I used to take part until my form hit rock bottom a few months ago:
@DavidL conversely my unpolitical other half mentioned it unprompted within 10 minutes of me walking in the door. But he is likely to be unusual in having noticed.
Me to light of my life: "have you heard of Tom Watson?" LOML: Can you give me a context? Me: He is an MP and was campaign manager for the Labour party. He resigned today. LOML: oh, why? Me: well there is this big story about Falkirk and the rigging of the selection of the Parliamentary candidate there. LOML: It's not been in the Courier. Me (slightly desperate) It's all about Unite and Len McCluskey apparently getting lots of new members to rig the vote. LOML: Oh.
So fun although this all is don't expect a big move on Yougov.
I suspect that is largely true of most. It's more the impact on the morale of the parliamentary Labour party and the narrative of Milliband's weakness that could have a longer term impact. Also we don't know if this represents the beginning or the end of the issue.
Depends mainly on how Ed handles it.
It's pretty clear that he's handled it very, very poorly. He should have bitten Watson's hand off when he offered the resignation the first time.
Paddy Power have just shortened their price on the Indyref turnout market - More than 64% - to 8/11.
Looks like free money to me as it is pretty much inconceivable that turnout will be weak come next September. Not unless it looks like a walkover for one side or the other, which looks unlikely right now. And even then, I'd still expect a strong turnout on the day.
You're assuming the whole of Scotland hasn't died of boredom by then . This has to be one of the dullest election campaigns of recent history from both sides and still 15 months to go.
yes 1 Con-LD marginal in Broadland 1 safe Labour seat in Swansea 1 Lab-UKIP marginal in Newcastle under Lyme 1 LD-Con marginal in Vale of White Horse 1 safe Labour seat in North Tyneside
@Dannythefink Hilariously McCluskey is calling for Miliband to have a full independent inquiry and Ed will say that a full independent inquiry not needed.
I see the Cheshire Farmer is running the line that Watsons resignation and the Unite shenanigans are all part of a grand plan to make Cameron look bad.
Me to light of my life: "have you heard of Tom Watson?" LOML: Can you give me a context? Me: He is an MP and was campaign manager for the Labour party. He resigned today. LOML: oh, why? Me: well there is this big story about Falkirk and the rigging of the selection of the Parliamentary candidate there. LOML: It's not been in the Courier. Me (slightly desperate) It's all about Unite and Len McCluskey apparently getting lots of new members to rig the vote. LOML: Oh.
So fun although this all is don't expect a big move on Yougov.
I suspect that is largely true of most. It's more the impact on the morale of the parliamentary Labour party and the narrative of Milliband's weakness that could have a longer term impact. Also we don't know if this represents the beginning or the end of the issue.
Depends mainly on how Ed handles it.
It's pretty clear that he's handled it very, very poorly. He should have bitten Watson's hand off when he offered the resignation the first time.
Ed M didn't want Watson to go because it shows that Ed has lost the dressing room . And , of course , Watson knows where the bodies are buried.
Me to light of my life: "have you heard of Tom Watson?" LOML: Can you give me a context? Me: He is an MP and was campaign manager for the Labour party. He resigned today. LOML: oh, why? Me: well there is this big story about Falkirk and the rigging of the selection of the Parliamentary candidate there. LOML: It's not been in the Courier. Me (slightly desperate) It's all about Unite and Len McCluskey apparently getting lots of new members to rig the vote. LOML: Oh.
So fun although this all is don't expect a big move on Yougov.
I suspect that is largely true of most. It's more the impact on the morale of the parliamentary Labour party and the narrative of Milliband's weakness that could have a longer term impact. Also we don't know if this represents the beginning or the end of the issue.
Depends mainly on how Ed handles it.
It's pretty clear that he's handled it very, very poorly. He should have bitten Watson's hand off when he offered the resignation the first time.
Perhaps you're right, lets see. But Camerons red faced spasming certainly cemented the view that the smarter Tories wish to dispel re the Unions and the Conservative party.
I doubt the public will be shocked to find that the leader of the Conservative party isn't all that keen on Unite and the Trade Unions in general. I suspect most people (including Union members themselves) know that the Tory party and the Unions aren't exactly bosom buddies. It's quite clearly not the big political story this week.
“The mishandling of this investigation has been a disgrace. I, however, am obliged to uphold the integrity of Unite, and I can no longer do so on the basis of going along with the activities of a Labour Party administration in which I can place no trust.'
Len McLuskey, Unite.
"Dear Len, we don't seem to have received your cheque this month"
“The mishandling of this investigation has been a disgrace. I, however, am obliged to uphold the integrity of Unite, and I can no longer do so on the basis of going along with the activities of a Labour Party administration in which I can place no trust.'
Len McLuskey, Unite.
"Dear Len, we don't seem to have received your cheque this month"
@Dannythefink Hilariously McCluskey is calling for Miliband to have a full independent inquiry and Ed will say that a full independent inquiry not needed.
Ed not calling for a full independent inquiry on something? Well a first time for everything I guess....
Me to light of my life: "have you heard of Tom Watson?" LOML: Can you give me a context? Me: He is an MP and was campaign manager for the Labour party. He resigned today. LOML: oh, why? Me: well there is this big story about Falkirk and the rigging of the selection of the Parliamentary candidate there. LOML: It's not been in the Courier. Me (slightly desperate) It's all about Unite and Len McCluskey apparently getting lots of new members to rig the vote. LOML: Oh.
So fun although this all is don't expect a big move on Yougov.
I suspect that is largely true of most. It's more the impact on the morale of the parliamentary Labour party and the narrative of Milliband's weakness that could have a longer term impact. Also we don't know if this represents the beginning or the end of the issue.
Depends mainly on how Ed handles it.
It's pretty clear that he's handled it very, very poorly. He should have bitten Watson's hand off when he offered the resignation the first time.
Perhaps you're right, lets see. But Camerons red faced spasming certainly cemented the view that the smarter Tories wish to dispel re the Unions and the Conservative party. And it makes the Labour charges about who he has chosen to be close to more dangerous for him.
Ed boots out the wrongdoers, Dave dines with them is a line you'll be hearing if Miliband plays this properly.
Is that the same as the curse of cameron line you were wibbling on about yesterday? Chortle ....
Evening all. On thread, if Scotland votes YES on 18th September next year I would expect the Coalition government to bring forward emergency legislation to disenfranchise the 59 Scottish MPs when parliament rises in March 2015. How could 59 Scottish MPs be elected for 5 years to an institution in England when in 2016 Scotland would in effect become a foreign nation?
If Scotland votes NO ( and personally I think it a brave person who is confident of such an outcome) then either Scots would decide that a stronger SNP presence would be needed at Westminster and a few more SNP MPs would be elected or the bubble would burst as in 1979 after the first Referendum was defeated on a technicality and they would be reduced to a rump of 2 or 3 seats.
As for the Tom Watson situation, it really couldn't have happened to a more suitable person. Whether it will make any difference with the electorate or indeed the world outside the Westminster village and London chatterati, who knows.
The media agenda over the next week is likely to be whether Andy Murray is British or a plucky Scot followed by the exertions of the Countess of Strathearn.
@Dannythefink Hilariously McCluskey is calling for Miliband to have a full independent inquiry and Ed will say that a full independent inquiry not needed.
Ed not calling for a full independent inquiry on something? Well a first time for everything I guess....
Just got back from the pub, and all people were talking about was the Labour Falkirk selection. The twenty somethings were having a heated debate about the Unite unions influence over local constituency parties. The three pissheads in the corner were mumbling their disgust at someone called Len and the barmaid didn't stop twittering on about, between pulling pints, of Unites furious operation....or....does 99% of the population not know or care about the issue and it is left to the 1% of political stato's and anoraks to get frothing at the mouth over it? School place shortages, NHS/111 mayhem, the economy etc etc maybe something only slightly more important eh?
Red Rag.. you are right absolutely nothing to see here..except perhaps some corruption.,electoral fraud, the split in the shadow cabinet, the GEC report..etc..absolutely nothing to see..move along now..maybe you should go back to the pub.. safer there
You're spot on regarding the need for no Scottish MPs to be involved on the union side of theoretical separation negotiations. Such a position would clearly be absolutely deranged.
... if Scotland votes YES on 18th September next year I would expect the Coalition government to bring forward emergency legislation to disenfranchise the 59 Scottish MPs when parliament rises in March 2015. How could 59 Scottish MPs be elected for 5 years to an institution in England when in 2016 Scotland would in effect become a foreign nation?
Isn't it more likely that legislation would be aimed at restricting the term of the Scottish MPs to match the timescale of independence. No reason to disenfranchise the whole population of Scotland before they have no concerns at Westminster anyway.
Red Rag I know its nothing new but according to some leftie PBers it only happens with the Conservatives..now reality is about to be exposed..bent halo's everywhere..
It's amazing to recall that when Spreadfair closed in early December 2008, just 17 months before the May 2010 General Election, I was able to make a tidy profit by agreeing with them a closure of my BUY spread bet of SNP seats at 13.5. Had things worked out differently and my bet bet had continued until expiry, I would have made a great thumping loss.
Red Rag I know its nothing new but according to some leftie PBers it only happens with the Conservatives..now reality is about to be exposed..bent halo's everywhere..
I am sure the same people from tonight will be talking about corruption and politics in September.....yeah right!!!
That the swivel-eyed loons and scottish tory surgers are utterly clueless as to the timetable for negotiations that would follow a a Yes vote to independence is hardly a surprise.
Comments
I once wrote a report which referenced songs inter alia, Westlife, Take That, Boyzone and New Kids on The Block.
That remains a high point for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA7v0zknMCo
He obtained an appropriate goat for the sacrifice (Watson). He ordered his servants (the Blairites) to take the goat to the holy river (Thames) and wash him and decorate him with flower garlands (left over from Glastonbury). Then they were to wash themselves, as part of the purification (putrification?) practice.
Down at the riverbank, the goat (Watson) suddenly understood that today he would definitely be killed (after trying career suicide the previous day). He also became aware of his past births and deaths and rebirths (under Blair/Brown/Miliband). He realized that the results of his past unwholesome deeds were about to finally be completed (or were about to be revealed). So he laughed an uproarious goat-laugh, like the clanging of cymbals (and then talked about music).
In the midst of his laughter, he realized another truth that the priest, by sacrificing him, would suffer the same terrible results, due to his ignorance. So he began to cry as loudly as he had just been laughing! (And we all joined in)
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/bt1_20.htm
Cameron’s attacks achieved one very obvious thing: they delighted the Tory benches who largely seem to hate unions with a passion.
But to be heard by voters, the prime minister is relying on people still viewing trade unions as a serious power in the country.
Having said that, given that those in their 50s and above are both most likely to remember that being the case and most likely to vote, this may be a well-calculated strategy.
http://blogs.ft.com/westminster/2013/07/pmqs-how-much-does-the-union-row-hurt-labour/
Essentially their support is very weak, indeed almost vanished, in areas where they were previously polling mediocre to bad. However in those small pockets of traditional strength they are holding up better but still under severe pressure.
It'll come down to personal vote, local organization and perhaps a small general improvement in the polls. They may end up polling 8-12% and lose only a few seats aided perhaps by a split in the vote in some seats.
We earnestly believe that the noble Viscount Thurso and his follicular trimmings enjoy a safe return to the HoC.
Test.
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/352848248584667136/photo/1
https://twitter.com/Vexedfoxy/status/352852760804347904/photo/1
Lordy, @MichaelPDeacon is good. Read this on Tom Watson, Drenge et al > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10160538/Sketch-Tom-Watson-Labour-MP-for-Drenge-Central.html …
Tom Watson's resignation letter. Killer line: "I offered my resignation on Tuesday and you asked me to reconsider" http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2013/07/independence-day-resignation-letter-3 …
= WEAK.
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/conlist_scot.html
As a supporter of the Yes campaign, but not of the SNP, I will be disappointed if they hold anything back for the 2015 election.
Found a visual representation of Labour's chances at the next election http://pic.twitter.com/TbYfL3mKV5
And of course wee Dougie and Murphy are involved too. That's a shocker. ;^ ) It certainly doesn't look like little Ed's "root and branch reform" was a roaring success.
SLAB starting to run about like headless chickens yet again. How very, very sad. ;(
Me to light of my life: "have you heard of Tom Watson?"
LOML: Can you give me a context?
Me: He is an MP and was campaign manager for the Labour party. He resigned today.
LOML: oh, why?
Me: well there is this big story about Falkirk and the rigging of the selection of the Parliamentary candidate there.
LOML: It's not been in the Courier.
Me (slightly desperate) It's all about Unite and Len McCluskey apparently getting lots of new members to rig the vote.
LOML: Oh.
So fun although this all is don't expect a big move on Yougov.
Looks like free money to me as it is pretty much inconceivable that turnout will be weak come next September. Not unless it looks like a walkover for one side or the other, which looks unlikely right now. And even then, I'd still expect a strong turnout on the day.
I shall try and discuss the situation and report.
If 60% were willing to turn out to vote for that foregone conclusion you are probably right. Still think that those that voted yes should be getting sent invoices though.
I used to take part until my form hit rock bottom a few months ago:
http://vote-2012.proboards.com/post/87242/thread
1 Con-LD marginal in Broadland
1 safe Labour seat in Swansea
1 Lab-UKIP marginal in Newcastle under Lyme
1 LD-Con marginal in Vale of White Horse
1 safe Labour seat in North Tyneside
At least, on paper
@Dannythefink
Hilariously McCluskey is calling for Miliband to have a full independent inquiry and Ed will say that a full independent inquiry not needed.
You're beginning to look ridiculous Tim..
Ed M didn't want Watson to go because it shows that Ed has lost the dressing room . And , of course , Watson knows where the bodies are buried.
Len McLuskey, Unite.
"Dear Len, we don't seem to have received your cheque this month"
The Labour Party treasurer.
Oh wait.....
Over 6.5: 4/5
Under 6.5: 11/10
4/5 remains excellent value, in my view.
If Scotland votes NO ( and personally I think it a brave person who is confident of such an outcome) then either Scots would decide that a stronger SNP presence would be needed at Westminster and a few more SNP MPs would be elected or the bubble would burst as in 1979 after the first Referendum was defeated on a technicality and they would be reduced to a rump of 2 or 3 seats.
As for the Tom Watson situation, it really couldn't have happened to a more suitable person. Whether it will make any difference with the electorate or indeed the world outside the Westminster village and London chatterati, who knows.
The media agenda over the next week is likely to be whether Andy Murray is British or a plucky Scot followed by the exertions of the Countess of Strathearn.
Sounds like my sort of pub.
Can you post directions to this pub? The drinkers in my local would consider it a great favour.
Unite is the biggest private sector union in the country.
You're spot on regarding the need for no Scottish MPs to be involved on the union side of theoretical separation negotiations. Such a position would clearly be absolutely deranged.
That same company won the right to run that hospital under a process initiated by the Labour government.