Quite true. But it is for the government to tell us what we are voting for: only they have the resposibility. If Cameron has launched the referendum with no idea how he would cope with LEAVE or thinking it would be a ruinous outcome then he has bee utterly irresponsible.
Why is it for the government to tell us? As the government has a position for remain, and are leading that campaign, they set out what 'remain' means: in short, Cameron's renegotiation. They cannot be expected to set out what leave means as well, although they can say what they think its effect may be. (A task that is both hard and easy as it is so undefined).
Cameron doesn't want to leave, and has set his stall out for that. That does not mean he, and the government, have not been considering what will happen if they lose. And they're under no obligation to tell us.
But leave, as the people who want to leave, need to set out *their* position. And they have not in any detail.
Edit: if I recall correctly, the government did not even set the question, the EC did.
You're voting Remain then?
For the hundredth time, I'll probably be voting leave. But my reasons for voting leave are not the same as many people's, and in many ways in spite of, rather than because of many of leave's arguments.
I said: "It's almost as if Leavers know that their arguments are skidmarked pants, so have to think that everyone's against them."
And I stand by that in the context it was said. It's not as if leavers don't use similar language against remainers (and especially people who are undecided) directly, yet alone their arguments.
I've given my reasons I'll be voting the way I am, and why I'm criticising leave more than remain (both perceived and real) on the previous thread. I suggest that you re-read it.
If you want to argue with my reasons for voting the way I am, feel free. But don't be so stupid as to indicate that I'm lying. I've been consistent and honest throughout.
Mr. kle4, the lesbionic supremacy was revealed in the second series, but I shall refrain from posting more.
[Captain of diversity that I am, both my [unrelated] WIPs have gay relationships. Lesbians in the serious stuff, a gay couple in the comedy. Not to mention the lesbian cannibalism in an earlier book].
Edited extra bit: Mr. Polruan, my sympathies. Must be especially bad now, with the bearded tit in charge.
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
Ill tempered ? Aggressive ? Surely you mean the threads have become more Franco-German ?
Yeah, lets mock the French and Germans, that's more fun
Not very communautaire TSE, why do you think we have the belgians ?
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
I really don't fancy another 100 days of this
May a suggest a thread on 'Was Ed more crap than Gordon?' for old times' sake? Everyone could happily join in - Kippers, Blairites, Tories, Corbynistas, LibDems, Nats...
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
I really don't fancy another 100 days of this
May a suggest a thread on 'Was Ed more crap than Gordon?' for old times' sake? Everyone could happily join in - Kippers, Blairites, Tories, Corbynistas, LibDems, Nats...
Actually, I'm writing a thread blaming all Labour's current woes on Gordon Brown.
Tissue Price put the idea into my head this morning, he raised an interesting point, perhaps if Gordon Brown had let John McDonnell be on the Labour leadership ballot in 2007, Labour might not have elected Corbyn in 2015.
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I agree.
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
I really don't fancy another 100 days of this
I think it's the way certain people have been "on the fence" veering towards leave and then have done sharp handbrake turns heading back to remain at the first whiff of gunpowder from Dave.
It hasn't really helped foster a congenial atmosphere with what could reasonably be considered "trolling".
We're walking down a sweet together and there is a turning coming up.
If we take the turning there us a superb cake and pastry shop a short way away. Next door there is a fantastic pub. Straight ahead is the A road that leads to an industrial estate.
I want to go the cake shop. You'd rather go to the pub. Wouldn't the sensible thing to do be to take the turning, even though we don't agree on the destination. We can agree where to go next later.
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I agree.
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
I really don't fancy another 100 days of this
Nonsense. There isn't nearly enough vitriol on PB.
What does that have to with anything? If you looked at the articles I share, they're from many sources - unfortunately most Pb-ers don't subscribe to the Times or I'd cite them instead.
Another cheap ad hom from you, I've no idea why since I don't attack you.
I'm just beginning to get a tiny twinge that we could do it. I never ever expected that.
@DPJHodges: We're entering the "Knowing" phase of the referendum campaign. The moment people feel compelled to say knowingly "Brexit may just win".
Oh the irony - got nothing from the Mail to post today then?
Nothing wrong in posting articles - yet you don 't like Scott C doing it. Funny that.
I know this post wasn't in response to me, but are you suddenly the Witchfinder general, designated to discover and point at everyone you believe is lying about their position?
(Seriously though, I'm not sure how I could have made my position clearer. You didn't choose to argue with the posts where I did explain it, and the reasons I critique the remain side)
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
Ill tempered ? Aggressive ? Surely you mean the threads have become more Franco-German ?
Yeah, lets mock the French and Germans, that's more fun
Not very communautaire TSE, why do you think we have the belgians ?
I'm also writing a thread on the Tory Party and the EU that pure clickbait perceptive analysis.
One previous undecided I know now leaning toward leave.
Good news!
it is only anecdotal, but the people that I know are planning on voting leave, are absolutely determined to vote, where as the larger number of people who I know that are incline to stay, are generally borderline indifferent.
This may just be the people who I happen to know and to have talked about this with, or I may just be seeing what I want to, but I suspect that if Leave win it will be more though divert tern outs than persuasion.
Still everybody who can be persuaded so much the better.
Mr. kle4, the lesbionic supremacy was revealed in the second series, but I shall refrain from posting more.
[Captain of diversity that I am, both my [unrelated] WIPs have gay relationships. Lesbians in the serious stuff, a gay couple in the comedy. Not to mention the lesbian cannibalism in an earlier book].
Edited extra bit: Mr. Polruan, my sympathies. Must be especially bad now, with the bearded tit in charge.
Your sympathies are gratefully accepted. We need all the sympathy we can get right now.
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
I really don't fancy another 100 days of this
May a suggest a thread on 'Was Ed more crap than Gordon?' for old times' sake? Everyone could happily join in - Kippers, Blairites, Tories, Corbynistas, LibDems, Nats...
Actually, I'm writing a thread blaming all Labour's current woes on Gordon Brown.
Tissue Price put the idea into my head this morning, he raised an interesting point, perhaps if Gordon Brown had let John McDonnell be on the Labour leadership ballot in 2007, Labour might not have elected Corbyn in 2015.
Does that mean you have now formally accepted that Blair was a member of the Conservative party ?
We're walking down a sweet together and there is a turning coming up.
If we take the turning there us a superb cake and pastry shop a short way away. Next door there is a fantastic pub. Straight ahead is the A road that leads to an industrial estate.
I want to go the cake shop. You'd rather go to the pub. Wouldn't the sensible thing to do be to take the turning, even though we don't agree on the destination. We can agree where to go next later.
We're walking down a sweet together and there is a turning coming up.
If we take the turning there us a superb cake and pastry shop a short way away. Next door there is a fantastic pub. Straight ahead is the A road that leads to an industrial estate.
I want to go the cake shop. You'd rather go to the pub. Wouldn't the sensible thing to do be to take the turning, even though we don't agree on the destination. We can agree where to go next later.
That analogy is rubbish, especially if some people need something from the industrial estate, the cake shop or the pub specifically. Personally I'd be tempted to go to both the cake shop and the pub.
Breaking it even further to embrace my position, I'd take one of the other turnings as I believe the road ahead will become impassable after a while.
Quite true. But it is for the government to tell us what we are voting for: only they have the resposibility. If Cameron has launched the referendum with no idea how he would cope with LEAVE or thinking it would be a ruinous outcome then he has bee utterly irresponsible.
Why is it for the government to tell us? As the government has a position for remain, and are leading that campaign, they set out what 'remain' means: in short, Cameron's renegotiation. They cannot be expected to set out what leave means as well, although they can say what they think its effect may be. (A task that is both hard and easy as it is so undefined).
Cameron doesn't want to leave, and has set his stall out for that. That does not mean he, and the government, have not been considering what will happen if they lose. And they're under no obligation to tell us.
But leave, as the people who want to leave, need to set out *their* position. And they have not in any detail.
Edit: if I recall correctly, the government did not even set the question, the EC did.
You're voting Remain then?
For the hundredth time, I'll probably be voting leave. But my reasons for voting leave are not the same as many people's, and in many ways in spite of, rather than because of many of leave's arguments.
I said: "It's almost as if Leavers know that their arguments are skidmarked pants, so have to think that everyone's against them."
And I stand by that in the context it was said. It's not as if leavers don't use similar language against remainers (and especially people who are undecided) directly, yet alone their arguments.
I've given my reasons I'll be voting the way I am, and why I'm criticising leave more than remain (both perceived and real) on the previous thread. I suggest that you re-read it.
If you want to argue with my reasons for voting the way I am, feel free. But don't be so stupid as to indicate that I'm lying. I've been consistent and honest throughout.
You certainly insinuate it. Read your previous post in this thread.
What does that have to with anything? If you looked at the articles I share, they're from many sources - unfortunately most Pb-ers don't subscribe to the Times or I'd cite them instead.
Another cheap ad hom from you, I've no idea why since I don't attack you.
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
Ill tempered ? Aggressive ? Surely you mean the threads have become more Franco-German ?
Yeah, lets mock the French and Germans, that's more fun
Not very communautaire TSE, why do you think we have the belgians ?
I'm also writing a thread on the Tory Party and the EU that pure clickbait perceptive analysis.
Do an AfD thread it appears to excite everyone.
" Only the LDs opposition to a reformed House of Lords is stopping the AfD and their Leader Vladimir Putin from taking control of Scotland"
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
I really don't fancy another 100 days of this
May a suggest a thread on 'Was Ed more crap than Gordon?' for old times' sake? Everyone could happily join in - Kippers, Blairites, Tories, Corbynistas, LibDems, Nats...
Actually, I'm writing a thread blaming all Labour's current woes on Gordon Brown.
Tissue Price put the idea into my head this morning, he raised an interesting point, perhaps if Gordon Brown had let John McDonnell be on the Labour leadership ballot in 2007, Labour might not have elected Corbyn in 2015.
Does that mean you have now formally accepted that Blair was a member of the Conservative party ?
What does that have to with anything? If you looked at the articles I share, they're from many sources - unfortunately most Pb-ers don't subscribe to the Times or I'd cite them instead.
Another cheap ad hom from you, I've no idea why since I don't attack you.
I'm just beginning to get a tiny twinge that we could do it. I never ever expected that.
@DPJHodges: We're entering the "Knowing" phase of the referendum campaign. The moment people feel compelled to say knowingly "Brexit may just win".
Oh the irony - got nothing from the Mail to post today then?
Nothing wrong in posting articles - yet you don 't like Scott C doing it. Funny that.
I know this post wasn't in response to me, but are you suddenly the Witchfinder general, designated to discover and point at everyone you believe is lying about their position?
(Seriously though, I'm not sure how I could have made my position clearer. You didn't choose to argue with the posts where I did explain it, and the reasons I critique the remain side)
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I agree.
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
I really don't fancy another 100 days of this
I think it's the way certain people have been "on the fence" veering towards leave and then have done sharp handbrake turns heading back to remain at the first whiff of gunpowder from Dave.
It hasn't really helped foster a congenial atmosphere with what could reasonably be considered "trolling".
Since when were people banned for reconsidering their positions. There have been as many who've gone the other way. Politics is fluid.
Mr. kle4, given the smaller word count and (sometimes) massive sales, I have sometimes wondered about writing such (though it's miles out of my comfort zone). Mind you, there is a shade of sado-masochism in the next (after the 31 March book) Sir Edric story.
It does amuse me that so many women, in particular, are keen on frisky fiction.
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
I really don't fancy another 100 days of this
May a suggest a thread on 'Was Ed more crap than Gordon?' for old times' sake? Everyone could happily join in - Kippers, Blairites, Tories, Corbynistas, LibDems, Nats...
Actually, I'm writing a thread blaming all Labour's current woes on Gordon Brown.
Tissue Price put the idea into my head this morning, he raised an interesting point, perhaps if Gordon Brown had let John McDonnell be on the Labour leadership ballot in 2007, Labour might not have elected Corbyn in 2015.
Does that mean you have now formally accepted that Blair was a member of the Conservative party ?
He wanted to be, but Gordon Brown stopped him
Bliar and Eden were the only PMs in the last 100 years to resign both the PM-ship and their Commons seats.
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
Ill tempered ? Aggressive ? Surely you mean the threads have become more Franco-German ?
Yeah, lets mock the French and Germans, that's more fun
Not very communautaire TSE, why do you think we have the belgians ?
I'm also writing a thread on the Tory Party and the EU that pure clickbait perceptive analysis.
Do an AfD thread it appears to excite everyone.
" Only the LDs opposition to a reformed House of Lords is stopping the AfD and their Leader Vladimir Putin from taking control of Scotland"
something for eveyone.
I don't know enough about German politics to write such a thread.
I might do a thread on why so many Kippers have such a manlove for Putin though
We're walking down a sweet together and there is a turning coming up.
If we take the turning there us a superb cake and pastry shop a short way away. Next door there is a fantastic pub. Straight ahead is the A road that leads to an industrial estate.
I want to go the cake shop. You'd rather go to the pub. Wouldn't the sensible thing to do be to take the turning, even though we don't agree on the destination. We can agree where to go next later.
I've had nights out with friends where we needed to choose somewhere to eat. Some fancy Indian food. Some fancy Chinese. Some fancy something a bit more upmarket. We wander around arguing until eventually, hungry, tired and irritable we end up in a greasy spoon.
One thing to consider is that an awful lot of people who say they'll leave could well completely bottle it in the privacy of the polling booth when they actually have to vote.
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
Ill tempered ? Aggressive ? Surely you mean the threads have become more Franco-German ?
Yeah, lets mock the French and Germans, that's more fun
Not very communautaire TSE, why do you think we have the belgians ?
I'm also writing a thread on the Tory Party and the EU that pure clickbait perceptive analysis.
Do an AfD thread it appears to excite everyone.
" Only the LDs opposition to a reformed House of Lords is stopping the AfD and their Leader Vladimir Putin from taking control of Scotland"
something for eveyone.
I don't know enough about German politics to write such a thread.
I might do a thread on why so many Kippers have such a manlove for Putin though
I do all my posting topless. it's healthy and not remotely homo erotic.
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
Ill tempered ? Aggressive ? Surely you mean the threads have become more Franco-German ?
Yeah, lets mock the French and Germans, that's more fun
Not very communautaire TSE, why do you think we have the belgians ?
I'm also writing a thread on the Tory Party and the EU that pure clickbait perceptive analysis.
Do an AfD thread it appears to excite everyone.
" Only the LDs opposition to a reformed House of Lords is stopping the AfD and their Leader Vladimir Putin from taking control of Scotland"
something for eveyone.
I don't know enough about German politics to write such a thread.
I might do a thread on why so many Kippers have such a manlove for Putin though
I do all my posting topless. it's healthy and not remotely homo erotic.
Do you type one-handed as well? We should be told!
One thing to consider is that an awful lot of people who say they'll REMAIN could well completely bottle it in the privacy of the polling booth when they actually have to vote.
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
Ill tempered ? Aggressive ? Surely you mean the threads have become more Franco-German ?
Yeah, lets mock the French and Germans, that's more fun
Not very communautaire TSE, why do you think we have the belgians ?
I'm also writing a thread on the Tory Party and the EU that pure clickbait perceptive analysis.
Do an AfD thread it appears to excite everyone.
" Only the LDs opposition to a reformed House of Lords is stopping the AfD and their Leader Vladimir Putin from taking control of Scotland"
something for eveyone.
I don't know enough about German politics to write such a thread.
I might do a thread on why so many Kippers have such a manlove for Putin though
Anyway, Ive re-read your post and am hugely disappointed.
The rest of us knbow next to bugger all about what we're posting but that never stops us.
One thing to consider is that an awful lot of people who say they'll leave could well completely bottle it in the privacy of the polling booth when they actually have to vote.
Yes, a distinct possibility. More passionate than remainers, so maybe that cancels it out, but it is still a jump into the dark. Boldness will be required.
One thing to consider is that an awful lot of people who say they'll leave could well completely bottle it in the privacy of the polling booth when they actually have to vote.
I expect a fair bit of that. That's why I discount Leave leads of anything less than 5-6%.
You have to factor in a national Gaylord Ponceyboots factor.
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
Ill tempered ? Aggressive ? Surely you mean the threads have become more Franco-German ?
Yeah, lets mock the French and Germans, that's more fun
Not very communautaire TSE, why do you think we have the belgians ?
I'm also writing a thread on the Tory Party and the EU that pure clickbait perceptive analysis.
Do an AfD thread it appears to excite everyone.
" Only the LDs opposition to a reformed House of Lords is stopping the AfD and their Leader Vladimir Putin from taking control of Scotland"
something for eveyone.
I don't know enough about German politics to write such a thread.
I might do a thread on why so many Kippers have such a manlove for Putin though
I do all my posting topless. it's healthy and not remotely homo erotic.
Do you type one-handed as well? We should be told!
One thing to consider is that an awful lot of people who say they'll leave could well completely bottle it in the privacy of the polling booth when they actually have to vote.
I expect a fair bit of that. That's why I discount Leave leads of anything less than 5-6%.
You have to factor in a national Gaylord Ponceyboots factor.
I think that will be offset by young voters who ardent remainers but can't be arsed to get to the ballot box.
There's an Al Ries and Laura Ries book on this very subject (my marketing heroes), called The Fall of Advertising and The Rise of PR. Have you read it? It's amazing; I have it on my shelf at work.
One thing to consider is that an awful lot of people who say they'll leave could well completely bottle it in the privacy of the polling booth when they actually have to vote.
I expect a fair bit of that. That's why I discount Leave leads of anything less than 5-6%.
You have to factor in a national Gaylord Ponceyboots factor.
Surely the Gaylord Ponceyboots would stay at home?
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I agree.
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
Ill tempered ? Aggressive ? Surely you mean the threads have become more Franco-German ?
Yeah, lets mock the French and Germans, that's more fun
Not very communautaire TSE, why do you think we have the belgians ?
I'm also writing a thread on the Tory Party and the EU that pure clickbait perceptive analysis.
Do an AfD thread it appears to excite everyone.
" Only the LDs opposition to a reformed House of Lords is stopping the AfD and their Leader Vladimir Putin from taking control of Scotland"
something for eveyone.
I don't know enough about German politics to write such a thread.
I might do a thread on why so many Kippers have such a manlove for Putin though
I do all my posting topless. it's healthy and not remotely homo erotic.
Do you type one-handed as well? We should be told!
There's an Al Ries and Laura Ries book on this very subject (my marketing heroes), called The Fall of Advertising and The Rise of PR. Have you read it? It's amazing; I have it on my shelf at work.
If you hadn't made a single bet on the US Presidential/GOP Nominee/Dem Nominee markets, what would be the bet(s) PBers would recommend now?
Mr Eagles,
this site is just descending in to pointless EU bickering. could I suggest some more George is crap threads to lift the tone?
I agree.
I gave you a George is crap thread at the weekend. Mr Meeks also did one this morning.
I shall try and lift the tone, by looking at what the EURef/Brexit means to Scottish Independence.
But in all seriousness, PBers, can we lighten up a bit, PB seems the most aggressive I can ever remember, not even the IndyRef nor the GEs we've covered have PBers been this ill tempered. People hold genuine views, some people are unsure, respect that.
I really don't fancy another 100 days of this
Believe in BRITAIN!
Be LEAVE!
BeHAVE!
Only Europhiles deal in absolutes! I will do what I must!
All these Frank Spencers 'Oooh, what are we going to DO BETTY?' - do they realise how pathetic they sound? MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS is what we'll do - you know, how two thirds of the world still operates? Leaving the EU is of course a beginning, not an end. But the alternative is no beginning at all. Staying in is no guarantee of any sort of future, merely that we won't have a say in that future. It is absolution from responsibility, not security.
Most of Florida at 11PM GMT, rest at Midnight GMT (Daylight savings time starts early in the USA).
Ohio and N.Carolina at 11:30 PM GMT.
Illinois and Missouri at Midnight GMT.
We will get hints on how it will go for Trump early on from the Florida results, if he is beating his poll numbers then look at Ohio.
If Trump takes Ohio, he's the next President, for sure.
If Trump gets Ohio (very low chances) he will get a majority of delegates. The GOP is too damaged for anyone to win the Presidency.
Dem turnout for the primaries, down, a lot. Rep turnout for the primaries, up, a lot. Trump would flatten either Bernie or Hillary in a presidential race.
What is clear is that the widespread complacency in official UK and European circles about no UK exit is unwarranted, unless one has great faith in phone over online polling - but knowing UK politics, Cameron will win it anyway by making a barnstorming speech in the last ten days
Most of Florida at 11PM GMT, rest at Midnight GMT (Daylight savings time starts early in the USA).
Ohio and N.Carolina at 11:30 PM GMT.
Illinois and Missouri at Midnight GMT.
We will get hints on how it will go for Trump early on from the Florida results, if he is beating his poll numbers then look at Ohio.
If Trump takes Ohio, he's the next President, for sure.
If Trump gets Ohio (very low chances) he will get a majority of delegates. The GOP is too damaged for anyone to win the Presidency.
Dem turnout for the primaries, down, a lot. Rep turnout for the primaries, up, a lot. Trump would flatten either Bernie or Hillary in a presidential race.
There is a lot of turnout of people fighting in Syria, that doesn't mean that the war is going to end.
I make the connection because the GOP right now is in a state like the Syrian Civil War.
One thing to consider is that an awful lot of people who say they'll leave could well completely bottle it in the privacy of the polling booth when they actually have to vote.
I expect a fair bit of that. That's why I discount Leave leads of anything less than 5-6%.
You have to factor in a national Gaylord Ponceyboots factor.
Surely the Gaylord Ponceyboots would stay at home?
No, they are key swing voters.
PS. Mate, seriously, I dig your style but do you really have to post "Be LEAVE!" five times a day?!
All these Frank Spencers 'Oooh, what are we going to DO BETTY?' - do they realise how pathetic they sound? MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS is what we'll do - you know, how two thirds of the world still operates? Leaving the EU is of course a beginning, not an end. But the alternative is no beginning at all. Staying in is no guarantee of any sort of future, merely that we won't have a say in that future. It is absolution from responsibility, not security.
The EU is something we participate in, not something that is done to us.
There is an argument that we should leave the EU, but that is dependent on those suggesting that course of action coming up with a coherent alternative. Since that hasn't happened, a decision to leave would be like leaving a dull marriage to an unattractive but reliable middle-aged partner to be ready to frolic naked with the weirdos on the bus: the idea is arresting but the reality is both daunting and ultimately unattractive to anyone who isn't one of the weirdos on the bus.
I think it is understandable and legitimate for different groups of people to have different reasons for Brexit, and different ideas of our relationship with the EU if Brexit occurs.
But the problem with that, if Brexit occurs and the two year clock is ticking, is how do the people of the UK decide which of the competing Brexit models should be pursued? Leave it to Cameron? Leave it to Boris? It is so important that there should be another referendum to decide between the competing models - preferably using AV. Meanwhile the clock is ticking. That is the chaos of Brexit.
Very good points, Mr Barnesian. And the same applies to the REMAIN campaign. Nobody has a clue what voting for that might imply - anything from total integration to something pretty iffy, like what Cameron was aiming at.
It is a stupid queston, because it means nothing and everything.
A complete waste of time, and only brought about in order to paper over the cracks in the Conservative Party before the election.
One thing to consider is that an awful lot of people who say they'll leave could well completely bottle it in the privacy of the polling booth when they actually have to vote.
I expect a fair bit of that. That's why I discount Leave leads of anything less than 5-6%.
You have to factor in a national Gaylord Ponceyboots factor.
Surely the Gaylord Ponceyboots would stay at home?
No, they are key swing voters.
PS. Mate, seriously, I dig your style but do you really have to post "Be LEAVE!" five times a day?!
I think it's a simple, catchy, yet 100% positive slogan. I am thinking of getting it done on a T-shirt in time for the next PB meet
Um, just need to work on the (eventual) colour scheme...
What does that have to with anything? If you looked at the articles I share, they're from many sources - unfortunately most Pb-ers don't subscribe to the Times or I'd cite them instead.
Another cheap ad hom from you, I've no idea why since I don't attack you.
I'm just beginning to get a tiny twinge that we could do it. I never ever expected that.
@DPJHodges: We're entering the "Knowing" phase of the referendum campaign. The moment people feel compelled to say knowingly "Brexit may just win".
Oh the irony - got nothing from the Mail to post today then?
Nothing wrong in posting articles - yet you don 't like Scott C doing it. Funny that.
I know this post wasn't in response to me, but are you suddenly the Witchfinder general, designated to discover and point at everyone you believe is lying about their position?
(Seriously though, I'm not sure how I could have made my position clearer. You didn't choose to argue with the posts where I did explain it, and the reasons I critique the remain side)
And thanks for that; it is appreciated.
All I can say is I've explained my position, the reasons behind that position and why I'm critiquing leave more (both real and perceived) many times. If you want to query me about that or challenge it, fine.
But please don't make me explain again, for everyone's sanity.
Most of Florida at 11PM GMT, rest at Midnight GMT (Daylight savings time starts early in the USA).
Ohio and N.Carolina at 11:30 PM GMT.
Illinois and Missouri at Midnight GMT.
We will get hints on how it will go for Trump early on from the Florida results, if he is beating his poll numbers then look at Ohio.
If Trump takes Ohio, he's the next President, for sure.
If Trump gets Ohio (very low chances) he will get a majority of delegates. The GOP is too damaged for anyone to win the Presidency.
Dem turnout for the primaries, down, a lot. Rep turnout for the primaries, up, a lot. Trump would flatten either Bernie or Hillary in a presidential race.
There is a lot of turnout of people fighting in Syria, that doesn't mean that the war is going to end.
I make the connection because the GOP right now is in a state like the Syrian Civil War.
The GOP has a clear leading candidate. The Democrats are viciously divided between a commie and a harpie.
All these Frank Spencers 'Oooh, what are we going to DO BETTY?' - do they realise how pathetic they sound? MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS is what we'll do - you know, how two thirds of the world still operates? Leaving the EU is of course a beginning, not an end. But the alternative is no beginning at all. Staying in is no guarantee of any sort of future, merely that we won't have a say in that future. It is absolution from responsibility, not security.
The EU is something we participate in, not something that is done to us.
There is an argument that we should leave the EU, but that is dependent on those suggesting that course of action coming up with a coherent alternative. Since that hasn't happened, a decision to leave would be like leaving a dull marriage to an unattractive but reliable middle-aged partner to be ready to frolic naked with the weirdos on the bus: the idea is arresting but the reality is both daunting and ultimately unattractive to anyone who isn't one of the weirdos on the bus.
speaking as one of the weirdos on the bus we'll really miss your taut buttocks.
One thing to consider is that an awful lot of people who say they'll leave could well completely bottle it in the privacy of the polling booth when they actually have to vote.
I expect a fair bit of that. That's why I discount Leave leads of anything less than 5-6%.
You have to factor in a national Gaylord Ponceyboots factor.
I think that will be offset by young voters who ardent remainers but can't be arsed to get to the ballot box.
I don't get that PoV that sees voting as a waste of time but voting in Big Brother Xfactorstrictlycomedancingonicewank and buying national lottery tickets a valuable use of time.
Well, OK, I sort of do but am amused by the lack of consistency and logic in their answers.
One thing to consider is that an awful lot of people who say they'll leave could well completely bottle it in the privacy of the polling booth when they actually have to vote.
I expect a fair bit of that. That's why I discount Leave leads of anything less than 5-6%.
You have to factor in a national Gaylord Ponceyboots factor.
I think that will be offset by young voters who ardent remainers but can't be arsed to get to the ballot box.
I don't get that PoV that sees voting as a waste of time but voting in Big Brother Xfactorstrictlycomedancingonicewank and buying national lottery tickets a valuable use of time.
Well, OK, I sort of do but am amused by the lack of consistency and logic in their answers.
Because you can do all of that voting via a mobile phone, but voting in a real election, you cannot vote via a mobile
Most of Florida at 11PM GMT, rest at Midnight GMT (Daylight savings time starts early in the USA).
Ohio and N.Carolina at 11:30 PM GMT.
Illinois and Missouri at Midnight GMT.
We will get hints on how it will go for Trump early on from the Florida results, if he is beating his poll numbers then look at Ohio.
If Trump takes Ohio, he's the next President, for sure.
If Trump gets Ohio (very low chances) he will get a majority of delegates. The GOP is too damaged for anyone to win the Presidency.
Dem turnout for the primaries, down, a lot. Rep turnout for the primaries, up, a lot. Trump would flatten either Bernie or Hillary in a presidential race.
There is a lot of turnout of people fighting in Syria, that doesn't mean that the war is going to end.
I make the connection because the GOP right now is in a state like the Syrian Civil War.
The GOP has a clear leading candidate. The Democrats are viciously divided between a commie and a harpie.
The GOP has a clear leading candidate that party officials hate with an unbelievable passion who would rather blow up their party to smithereens rather that accept the voters verdict.
One interest point in the ORB poll , is that the groups with a majority favouring Remain are those which are earning money for the country , the employed , self employed , those unemployed who want a job , whereas those groups favouring Leave are the Retired and those unemployed who do not want a job .
All these Frank Spencers 'Oooh, what are we going to DO BETTY?' - do they realise how pathetic they sound? MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS is what we'll do - you know, how two thirds of the world still operates? Leaving the EU is of course a beginning, not an end. But the alternative is no beginning at all. Staying in is no guarantee of any sort of future, merely that we won't have a say in that future. It is absolution from responsibility, not security.
The EU is something we participate in, not something that is done to us.
There is an argument that we should leave the EU, but that is dependent on those suggesting that course of action coming up with a coherent alternative. Since that hasn't happened, a decision to leave would be like leaving a dull marriage to an unattractive but reliable middle-aged partner to be ready to frolic naked with the weirdos on the bus: the idea is arresting but the reality is both daunting and ultimately unattractive to anyone who isn't one of the weirdos on the bus.
speaking as one of the weirdos on the bus we'll really miss your taut buttocks.
All these Frank Spencers 'Oooh, what are we going to DO BETTY?' - do they realise how pathetic they sound? MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS is what we'll do - you know, how two thirds of the world still operates? Leaving the EU is of course a beginning, not an end. But the alternative is no beginning at all. Staying in is no guarantee of any sort of future, merely that we won't have a say in that future. It is absolution from responsibility, not security.
I prefer 'abnegation of responsibility' as the descriptor. But I agree the sentiment.
One interest point in the ORB poll , is that the groups with a majority favouring Remain are those which are earning money for the country , the employed , self employed , those unemployed who want a job , whereas those groups favouring Leave are the Retired and those unemployed who do not want a job .
ROFL - brilliant.
When did everyone on the Left become David Davis ?
One thing to consider is that an awful lot of people who say they'll leave could well completely bottle it in the privacy of the polling booth when they actually have to vote.
All these Frank Spencers 'Oooh, what are we going to DO BETTY?' - do they realise how pathetic they sound? MAKE OUR OWN DECISIONS is what we'll do - you know, how two thirds of the world still operates? Leaving the EU is of course a beginning, not an end. But the alternative is no beginning at all. Staying in is no guarantee of any sort of future, merely that we won't have a say in that future. It is absolution from responsibility, not security.
The EU is something we participate in, not something that is done to us.
There is an argument that we should leave the EU, but that is dependent on those suggesting that course of action coming up with a coherent alternative. Since that hasn't happened, a decision to leave would be like leaving a dull marriage to an unattractive but reliable middle-aged partner to be ready to frolic naked with the weirdos on the bus: the idea is arresting but the reality is both daunting and ultimately unattractive to anyone who isn't one of the weirdos on the bus.
speaking as one of the weirdos on the bus we'll really miss your taut buttocks.
Comments
[Captain of diversity that I am, both my [unrelated] WIPs have gay relationships. Lesbians in the serious stuff, a gay couple in the comedy. Not to mention the lesbian cannibalism in an earlier book].
Edited extra bit: Mr. Polruan, my sympathies. Must be especially bad now, with the bearded tit in charge.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3492872/LSE-Islamic-Society-holds-segregated-event-veil-room-separate-male-female-students.html
Tissue Price put the idea into my head this morning, he raised an interesting point, perhaps if Gordon Brown had let John McDonnell be on the Labour leadership ballot in 2007, Labour might not have elected Corbyn in 2015.
It hasn't really helped foster a congenial atmosphere with what could reasonably be considered "trolling".
We're walking down a sweet together and there is a turning coming up.
If we take the turning there us a superb cake and pastry shop a short way away. Next door there is a fantastic pub. Straight ahead is the A road that leads to an industrial estate.
I want to go the cake shop. You'd rather go to the pub. Wouldn't the sensible thing to do be to take the turning, even though we don't agree on the destination. We can agree where to go next later.
(Seriously though, I'm not sure how I could have made my position clearer. You didn't choose to argue with the posts where I did explain it, and the reasons I critique the remain side)
it is only anecdotal, but the people that I know are planning on voting leave, are absolutely determined to vote, where as the larger number of people who I know that are incline to stay, are generally borderline indifferent.
This may just be the people who I happen to know and to have talked about this with, or I may just be seeing what I want to, but I suspect that if Leave win it will be more though divert tern outs than persuasion.
Still everybody who can be persuaded so much the better.
The Department for Education is expected to publish draft legislation as early as Thursday, the BBC has learned.
http://www.bbc.com/news/education-35814215
Ear defenders at the ready...the blob are going to squeal to high heaven.
Personally I think this is the wrong move, despite thinking academies and free schools are sensible ideas.
Breaking it even further to embrace my position, I'd take one of the other turnings as I believe the road ahead will become impassable after a while.
NZ win by 47! Incredible
Nice tip @Tissue_Price
" Only the LDs opposition to a reformed House of Lords is stopping the AfD and their Leader Vladimir Putin from taking control of Scotland"
something for eveyone.
When it becomes a trend, I will query them.
I'll leave it there.
It does amuse me that so many women, in particular, are keen on frisky fiction.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/709784800933101569
I might do a thread on why so many Kippers have such a manlove for Putin though
And then what happens?
Un Temps Pour Tout wins @ 16/1
Cheers, Mr Eagles!
Most of Florida at 11PM GMT, rest at Midnight GMT (Daylight savings time starts early in the USA).
Ohio and N.Carolina at 11:30 PM GMT.
Illinois and Missouri at Midnight GMT.
We will get hints on how it will go for Trump early on from the Florida results, if he is beating his poll numbers then look at Ohio.
The rest of us knbow next to bugger all about what we're posting but that never stops us.
You have to factor in a national Gaylord Ponceyboots factor.
https://t.co/NDVRhte2nw
https://twitter.com/chucktodd/status/709710229483724800
The exit poll leaks will start in about 3-4 hours time from now.
There's an Al Ries and Laura Ries book on this very subject (my marketing heroes), called The Fall of Advertising and The Rise of PR. Have you read it? It's amazing; I have it on my shelf at work.
The GOP is too damaged for anyone to win the Presidency.
He knows how to leverage his brand!
Ohio counts for 66 and its Winner Take All, without it the chances of Trump getting to 1237 are 50-50.
Right now Trump can get somewhere around 1237+-100 delegates.
https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/709780677110210561
NC 72 PR
IL 69 WTA2
OH 66 WTA
MO 52 WTA2
Marianas 9 WTA [Trump]
Trump would flatten either Bernie or Hillary in a presidential race.
but knowing UK politics, Cameron will win it anyway by making a barnstorming speech in the last ten days
1.30 Altior WIN 4/1
2.10 Douvan WIN 1/4
2.50 Theatre Guide E/W Fell
3.30 My Tent Or Yours 2nd
4.10 Vroum Vroum Mag WIN 4/6
4.50 Southfield Royale E/W 4th
5.30 Thomas Brown Still running...
Roll on day 2
I make the connection because the GOP right now is in a state like the Syrian Civil War.
PS. Mate, seriously, I dig your style but do you really have to post "Be LEAVE!" five times a day?!
There is an argument that we should leave the EU, but that is dependent on those suggesting that course of action coming up with a coherent alternative. Since that hasn't happened, a decision to leave would be like leaving a dull marriage to an unattractive but reliable middle-aged partner to be ready to frolic naked with the weirdos on the bus: the idea is arresting but the reality is both daunting and ultimately unattractive to anyone who isn't one of the weirdos on the bus.
It is a stupid queston, because it means nothing and everything.
A complete waste of time, and only brought about in order to paper over the cracks in the Conservative Party before the election.
Um, just need to work on the (eventual) colour scheme...
All I can say is I've explained my position, the reasons behind that position and why I'm critiquing leave more (both real and perceived) many times. If you want to query me about that or challenge it, fine.
But please don't make me explain again, for everyone's sanity.
Well, OK, I sort of do but am amused by the lack of consistency and logic in their answers.
When did everyone on the Left become David Davis ?