People close to him say Martin’s judgment is that it is not in Fianna Fáil’s interests to join a government with Kenny. That is precisely, he reasons, what he spent the general election trying to prevent.
But the blunt truth about Martin’s position is that even if he did want to cut a deal for a grand coalition with Kenny, he could not currently get such an arrangement through his parliamentary party. And even if he forced it through there, he could not secure the agreement of a special ardfheis that the party rules require. Sources at all levels of Fianna Fáil are absolutely adamant on this latter point.
Basically FF are trying to avoid going into government, and FG are trying to avoid a minority government which FF can bring down at any time.
Ah so they finished counting ?
Yes, eventually!
The number of days it will take to form a government would make a good spread betting market.
On-topic: Nice resource. Like the NEV tracker chart and the results format. Traced back 20 year Green party domination in my own ward (for reasons now lost in the midst of time, and not the most self-evidently Green ward around).
Is the underlying British Local Elections Database available outside academic circles? Been putting together my own spreadsheet of last results by council to get an actual unweighted national vote share by last election in each ward, pulling together stuff out of LEAP and Electoral Calculus (lots of fun with multiple input formats and especially with divisors for councils with random selections of single and multi-seat wards). Got some numbers for all councils, but not all of the 2015 numbers are collated yet (for the districts in particular am still using at lot of 2013 county results with lower turnouts), so expecting the 3 point Labour lead currently reflected to substantially evaporate by the time I am fully up to date.
People close to him say Martin’s judgment is that it is not in Fianna Fáil’s interests to join a government with Kenny. That is precisely, he reasons, what he spent the general election trying to prevent.
But the blunt truth about Martin’s position is that even if he did want to cut a deal for a grand coalition with Kenny, he could not currently get such an arrangement through his parliamentary party. And even if he forced it through there, he could not secure the agreement of a special ardfheis that the party rules require. Sources at all levels of Fianna Fáil are absolutely adamant on this latter point.
Basically FF are trying to avoid going into government, and FG are trying to avoid a minority government which FF can bring down at any time.
Ah so they finished counting ?
Yes, eventually!
The number of days it will take to form a government would make a good spread betting market.
Fianna Fail look to have the better hand. The second party is never expected to form a Gov't...
5 men jailed for combined 34 years for the Hatton garden job.
That seems rather lenient.
No one got hurt. They're all old. It's also the ballpark for this kind of gig, I think.
Something not right about the whole thing, darker forces involved is my tin foil view.
Forces with what motive?
To be honest I'm not sure but having watched The Bank Job and the emergence of the mystery Basil, together with the lenient sentences something is definitely not right about the whole business
Tin foil hattery. Spooks would be in and out of that vault, without leaving a trace.
Then set up some willing old lags for it, a good few quid for lenient sentences and everyone is happy.
Tin foil hattery probably but you have to admit something is not right.
But why would they need to break in there, something of interest in the vault they wanted to recover? I'm sure they could manage a much tidier job than this lot.
Watch The Bank Job, very similar thing.
Perhaps it's easier to hang it on some old lags in a suitable deal then bring suspicion on themselves, it seems these so called sophisticated career criminals did pretty much all they could to get caught.
All apart from the mystery bloke, the one that had the keys to let them in!
Which suggests an inside job rather than spooks.
Possibly, it's certainly difficult to take all the known aspects of the case at face value.
There's also a VI in there, though it's not very exciting - eliminating don't knows and won't votes, it shows Labour 10 points ahead (vs. 8.8% at the election), confirming other polls showing the position much as before. Khan and Goldsmith are broadly following the same pattern, though there's some crossover both ways.
Fianna Fail look to have the better hand. The second party is never expected to form a Gov't...
Yes, that's my view. No-one wants to do any kind of deal with SF, and numerically no other combination of parties except some kind of FG-FF deal works. If FF don't want to play ball in a formal coalition, I can't see how FG can force them, so FG will have to accept FF support from the opposition benches. So I'm hopeful that my bets on an FG minority (at around 6/1) are going to come good.
This could be quite a big decision...certainly is for trunki. Seems like basically there is no legal protect on design.
Jeremy Drew, the head of retail at law firm RPC, said the ruling would “send shockwaves through design-driven businesses. It’s highly likely that other businesses may now begin to see cheaper versions of their well-known original registered designs coming on to the market.”
"Turning to the criticism that the judge ignored the colour contrast in the CRD, the court found that, as “the CRD consisted of CADs of an item whose main body appears as a uniform grey but which had black strips, a black strap and black wheels, the natural inference to be drawn is that the components shown in black are intended to be in a contrasting colour to that of the main body. Accordingly, the Court of Appeal was correct: the CRD claimed not merely a shape, but a shape in two contrasting colours and the judge was wrong in holding that the CRD was simply a claim for shape”.
Other than sounding ridiculous on a case-by-case basis, that doesn't sound revolutionary to me.
Fianna Fail look to have the better hand. The second party is never expected to form a Gov't...
Yes, that's my view. Since no-one wants to do any kind of deal with SF, no combination of parties except some kind of FG-FF deal works. If FF don't want to play ball in a formal coalition, I can't see how FG can force them, so FG will have to accept FF support from the opposition benches. So I'm hopeful that my bets on an FG minority (at around 6/1) are going to come good.
Still some bad blood between FF and SF over de Valera ?
"Palace officials are understood to be particularly incensed with the fact that, even if any conversation took place about Europe, the idea of a referendum was some way in the future and Brexit was not even coined as a term."
Haha!
"No I didn't half-inch your wallet. I don't even know the meaning of the term 'half-inch'".
Was one of the sources Clegg? Or someone in his office who's taken the Murdoch shilling? Who else was at the dinner?
"Palace officials are understood to be particularly incensed with the fact that, even if any conversation took place about Europe, the idea of a referendum was some way in the future and Brexit was not even coined as a term."
Haha!
"No I didn't half-inch your wallet. I don't even know the meaning of the term 'half-inch'".
Was one of the sources Clegg? Or someone in his office who's taken the Murdoch shilling? Who else was at the dinner?
I'd say it's the PR team that are barking; the Monarch herself (if the story is true) has expressed the opinion in private that 'Europe is going in the wrong direction' - a blander and less controversial statement could hardly be imagined. It's what David Cameron and most of his cabinet were saying until recently.
Nepal is the only one that doesn't come into the "No sh1t, Sherlock" category
I know some people who are missionaries in Nepal - the Indian blockade of Nepal (widely regarded in that country as a retaliation against Nepal for adopting a secular constitution) has been one of the great unsung scandals of recent times, especially with the timing after the earthquake. But India isn't a NATO bogeyman, everyone wants to be their friend (on both sides) so the media has kept relatively schtum.
Nepal is the only one that doesn't come into the "No sh1t, Sherlock" category
I know some people who are missionaries in Nepal - the Indian blockade of Nepal (widely regarded in that country as a retaliation against Nepal for adopting a secular constitution) has been one of the great unsung scandals of recent times, especially with the timing after the earthquake. But India isn't a NATO bogeyman, everyone wants to be their friend (on both sides) so the media has kept relatively schtum.
One of my foundation's staff was brought up in Nepal, so we do a lot of work there. She says that the blockade has done far more damage than the earthquake (I think she said as much as 3-4x time more economic damage, but don't hold me to that)
Nepal is the only one that doesn't come into the "No sh1t, Sherlock" category
I know some people who are missionaries in Nepal - the Indian blockade of Nepal (widely regarded in that country as a retaliation against Nepal for adopting a secular constitution) has been one of the great unsung scandals of recent times, especially with the timing after the earthquake. But India isn't a NATO bogeyman, everyone wants to be their friend (on both sides) so the media has kept relatively schtum.
It was one of the things that was alluded to, without being explicit in the recent 'Walking the Himalayas' program. (Fascinating, and utterly beautiful scenery)
HI think the SNP have played this perfectly. If they had taken Osbourne's shilling they would have been vilified like the Lib Dems. As it is they are saviours of the shop workers time and a half in Scotland and keeping Sunday special in England. The Tory anger on this site is synthetic, the Goverment's attempts at bribery pathetic and the SNP positioning near perfect.
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's also absolutely right. The bloke is an apologist for terrorism, talks about the "Jewish question" and is a 9/11 conspiracist. Jeremy Corbyn either needs to ensure he is thrown out or should explain why such a person is considered suitable to be a member of the party he leads. Of course, he will do neither. Members like Nick Palmer will think that's absolutely fine and will blame Woodcock for stirring. Voters will reach a different conclusion.
HI think the SNP have played this perfectly. If they had taken Osbourne's shilling they would have been vilified like the Lib Dems. As it is they are saviours of the shop workers time and a half in Scotland and keeping Sunday special in England. The Tory anger on this site is synthetic, the Goverment's attempts at bribery pathetic and the SNP positioning near perfect.
Osborne not only gave the Nats a shilling, he gave them a golden guinea - welfare dependency for at least another 5 years.
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's a political suicide note. Corbyn is frequently slurred as an apologist for terrorists, so this open letter must close Woodcock's career in Corbyn's Labour.
We are not talking about a few bad apples. Only a few weeks back did we hear of allegations that anti-Semitism is rife in the Oxford University's Labour Students club.
@severincarrell: Now emerges @scotgov got a key #GERS figures wrong: overstated oil revenues by £762m or 0.5% GDP (table A10). Online data now changed.
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's also absolutely right. The bloke is an apologist for terrorism, talks about the "Jewish question" and is a 9/11 conspiracist. Jeremy Corbyn either needs to ensure he is thrown out or should explain why such a person is considered suitable to be a member of the party he leads. Of course, he will do neither. Members like Nick Palmer will think that's absolutely fine and will blame Woodcock for stirring. Voters will reach a different conclusion.
Is he a 9 11 'conspiracist' or a 9 11 'apologist'? The two terms are in no way interchangeable.
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's also absolutely right. The bloke is an apologist for terrorism, talks about the "Jewish question" and is a 9/11 conspiracist. Jeremy Corbyn either needs to ensure he is thrown out or should explain why such a person is considered suitable to be a member of the party he leads. Of course, he will do neither. Members like Nick Palmer will think that's absolutely fine and will blame Woodcock for stirring. Voters will reach a different conclusion.
Is he a 9 11 'conspiracist' or a 9 11 'apologist'? The two terms are in no way interchangeable.
Apologist is probably the right term. Either way, he is perfectly acceptable inside Corbyn Labour. Nick Palmer must be so proud.
Nepal is the only one that doesn't come into the "No sh1t, Sherlock" category
I know some people who are missionaries in Nepal - the Indian blockade of Nepal (widely regarded in that country as a retaliation against Nepal for adopting a secular constitution) has been one of the great unsung scandals of recent times, especially with the timing after the earthquake. But India isn't a NATO bogeyman, everyone wants to be their friend (on both sides) so the media has kept relatively schtum.
One of my foundation's staff was brought up in Nepal, so we do a lot of work there. She says that the blockade has done far more damage than the earthquake (I think she said as much as 3-4x time more economic damage, but don't hold me to that)
I will be making my final trip to Nepal in a few weeks,I have been a few times, and this trek/climb is to show support for the country. Last visit,well probably,age and fitness have caught up on me.
Nepal is the only one that doesn't come into the "No sh1t, Sherlock" category
I know some people who are missionaries in Nepal - the Indian blockade of Nepal (widely regarded in that country as a retaliation against Nepal for adopting a secular constitution) has been one of the great unsung scandals of recent times, especially with the timing after the earthquake. But India isn't a NATO bogeyman, everyone wants to be their friend (on both sides) so the media has kept relatively schtum.
One of my foundation's staff was brought up in Nepal, so we do a lot of work there. She says that the blockade has done far more damage than the earthquake (I think she said as much as 3-4x time more economic damage, but don't hold me to that)
I will be making my final trip to Nepal in a few weeks,I have been a few times, and this trek/climb is to show support for the country. Last visit,well probably,age and fitness have caught up on me.
Never say never! Hope you have a good and worthwhile visit.
Is he a 9 11 'conspiracist' or a 9 11 'apologist'? The two terms are in no way interchangeable.
Agreed. The US government's official position has always been that the attacks resulted from a conspiracy. It's hard to argue that they didn't. I mean people planning something like that keep it secret before they do it, right?
Watching the Commons and seeing the Tory Party getting stuck into their Government AGAIN. Scot P should demand a paid break from his work at the Tory research Department (where he is forced to work Sunday's) and accept that the NATS have called it right again.
Osbourne's shilling was a PC ship for the NATS Deputy Leader. Rightly they turned it down and turned on the Government instead!
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's also absolutely right. The bloke is an apologist for terrorism, talks about the "Jewish question" and is a 9/11 conspiracist. Jeremy Corbyn either needs to ensure he is thrown out or should explain why such a person is considered suitable to be a member of the party he leads. Of course, he will do neither. Members like Nick Palmer will think that's absolutely fine and will blame Woodcock for stirring. Voters will reach a different conclusion.
Is he a 9 11 'conspiracist' or a 9 11 'apologist'? The two terms are in no way interchangeable.
Apologist is probably the right term. Either way, he is perfectly acceptable inside Corbyn Labour. Nick Palmer must be so proud.
Corbyn's Labour doesn't have to take any lectures in malevolence from New Labour " Iraq War/ WMD " apologists..
Nepal is the only one that doesn't come into the "No sh1t, Sherlock" category
I know some people who are missionaries in Nepal - the Indian blockade of Nepal (widely regarded in that country as a retaliation against Nepal for adopting a secular constitution) has been one of the great unsung scandals of recent times, especially with the timing after the earthquake. But India isn't a NATO bogeyman, everyone wants to be their friend (on both sides) so the media has kept relatively schtum.
One of my foundation's staff was brought up in Nepal, so we do a lot of work there. She says that the blockade has done far more damage than the earthquake (I think she said as much as 3-4x time more economic damage, but don't hold me to that)
I will be making my final trip to Nepal in a few weeks,I have been a few times, and this trek/climb is to show support for the country. Last visit,well probably,age and fitness have caught up on me.
Never say never! Hope you have a good and worthwhile visit.
Thanks,I will enjoy the trip,but apart from my age and fitness, there is Mrs Jayfdee to contend with, and I have done many month long expeditions,this is my last. I will miss the May elections,and although communications have improved in Nepal, I will only get sporadic contact with the rest of the world.
Was there a lot of betting on the tie? But being less cynical ... ''Most cricket in Oman is played by expatriate Indians and Pakistanis (and their descendants), rather than by native Omanis'' (wiki, but seems entirely credible). Given the national mix in the team it must be a bit interesting, but then less incendiary that Yorkshire CC politics.
Watching the Commons and seeing the Tory Party getting stuck into their Government AGAIN. Scot P should demand a paid break from his work at the Tory research Department (where he is forced to work Sunday's) and accept that the NATS have called it right again.
Osbourne's shilling was a PC ship for the NATS Deputy Leader. Rightly they turned it down and turned on the Government instead!
Englands Sunday trading has nothing to do with Scotland where Sunday trading is endemic .
''The Sunday Working (Scotland) Act 2003 (c 18) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. The aim of the Act was to close an anomaly in employment law in the United Kingdom, whereby shopworkers in England and Wales had the legal right to refuse to work on a Sunday, when shopworkers in Scotland did not enjoy this right. The anomaly arose from the different legislation in force in Scotland and the rest of the UK regarding Sunday trading. In Scotland, there was never any legislation preventing Sunday trading, and shops could choose their own opening hours.'' (wiki)
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's a political suicide note. Corbyn is frequently slurred as an apologist for terrorists, so this open letter must close Woodcock's career in Corbyn's Labour.
Woodcock like SO is willing Lab under Corbyn to fail.
Thanks for an excellent resource, and I wonder if you are working with MySociety at all on this, since they have much experience in both obtaining LG data and in visualisations.
@DAaronovitch: The very arguments that the SNP use to justify opposing English Sunday trading are the ones that render independence a fantasy. Or Brexit.
We are not talking about a few bad apples. Only a few weeks back did we hear of allegations that anti-Semitism is rife in the Oxford University's Labour Students club.
I've always thought the "one or two rotten apples" analogy to be, well, a really rotten one. As anyone who has ever put a rotten (or even rotting) apple in a basket of fresh apples knows, pretty soon the whole lot will be rotten.
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's a political suicide note. Corbyn is frequently slurred as an apologist for terrorists, so this open letter must close Woodcock's career in Corbyn's Labour.
Woodcock like SO is willing Lab under Corbyn to fail.
waste of their effort... Corbyn will ensure that on his own.
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's a political suicide note. Corbyn is frequently slurred as an apologist for terrorists, so this open letter must close Woodcock's career in Corbyn's Labour.
At what point do moderates in Labour say "enough is enough". If they can't get their party back, when do they leave and form their own?
Can you imagine what would be happening if the Tory leadership had been taken over by the BNP?
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's a political suicide note. Corbyn is frequently slurred as an apologist for terrorists, so this open letter must close Woodcock's career in Corbyn's Labour.
Woodcock like SO is willing Lab under Corbyn to fail.
waste of their effort... Corbyn will ensure that on his own.
Who do you think the members will blame?
Any sensible Blairite who wanted Corbyn out would do their best to fight for as many seats as possible thus avoiding being blamed when council seats are lost in 2016 as they will be considering Lab were 6% ahead in 2012 wen last fought.
Seems like such a silly thing to have as a second defeat in the Commons since May, this Sunday trading business. Other than there mere fact of a defeat being notable, it doesn't feel like the sort of thing which opponents can make a great story out of, but I guess it matters to enough people to see it defeated so what do I know.
We are not talking about a few bad apples. Only a few weeks back did we hear of allegations that anti-Semitism is rife in the Oxford University's Labour Students club.
I've always thought the "one or two rotten apples" analogy to be, well, a really rotten one. As anyone who has ever put a rotten (or even rotting) apple in a basket of fresh apples knows, pretty soon the whole lot will be rotten.
That is what is happening to the Labour party.
Isn't that the whole point of the "one or two bad apples" in that they spoil the others?
In other words the bad apples need to be chucked out ASAP!
It does seem as if it was the Osmonds who reversed the meaning of the phrase:
We are not talking about a few bad apples. Only a few weeks back did we hear of allegations that anti-Semitism is rife in the Oxford University's Labour Students club.
I've always thought the "one or two rotten apples" analogy to be, well, a really rotten one. As anyone who has ever put a rotten (or even rotting) apple in a basket of fresh apples knows, pretty soon the whole lot will be rotten.
That is what is happening to the Labour party.
I thought that was the point of the expression: in saying someone claims "that it's only one or two bad apples" the speaking is imputing doubt that it goes no further, for the real world reasons you mention. Also used to emphasise the need to get rid of the bad apples before more harm results.
I've not looked at this case, but on the face of it I can't see why the hierarchy haven't realised the need to appear tough and go for zero-tolerance. Whilst the constant "terrorist sympathiser" slurs are wearing to say the least, it's a lot easier to make the case for a vaguely grown up dialogue with one's enemies when one can also point to a record of dealing with those whose views really are beyond acceptable. Although with the constant fear-mongering witch-hunting "man who hated Britain" shit it's a bit hard to know which ones are the bad apples and which ones are raising reasonable points.
The left has unpleasant friends (anti-semitism and refusal to condemn behaviour of some minorities however indefensible) just as the right does (racism, apartheid etc) but, to use exactly the wrong expression, the fact that all sides have their problems isn't an excuse for failing to be whiter than white.
We are not talking about a few bad apples. Only a few weeks back did we hear of allegations that anti-Semitism is rife in the Oxford University's Labour Students club.
I've always thought the "one or two rotten apples" analogy to be, well, a really rotten one. As anyone who has ever put a rotten (or even rotting) apple in a basket of fresh apples knows, pretty soon the whole lot will be rotten.
That is what is happening to the Labour party.
Isn't that the whole point of the "one or two bad apples" in that they spoil the others?
In other words the bad apples need to be chucked out ASAP!
It does seem as if it was the Osmonds who reversed the meaning of the phrase:
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's a political suicide note. Corbyn is frequently slurred as an apologist for terrorists, so this open letter must close Woodcock's career in Corbyn's Labour.
Woodcock like SO is willing Lab under Corbyn to fail.
No, I know with absolute certainty that Corbyn will fail. The British public will never let an anti-western, apologist for terrorism, who is stuck in the early 1980s, anywhere near power. And quite right too. All those who refuse to recognise this - or have no problem with it - are complicit in allowing the Tories a completely free pass
@DAaronovitch: The very arguments that the SNP use to justify opposing English Sunday trading are the ones that render independence a fantasy. Or Brexit.
The SNP elite have now given up on independence, at least for a generation. They now want to exercise maximum, annoying, Scotland-benefiting influence at Westminster while ruling the roost in Holyrood, like many civic regionalist parties beforehand.
There's no shame in that. It's practical politics. The question is whether their fundamentalist indy wing will accept this.
What has English Sunday trading got to do with Scotland. How does getting into that 'benefit' Scotland?
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's a political suicide note. Corbyn is frequently slurred as an apologist for terrorists, so this open letter must close Woodcock's career in Corbyn's Labour.
Woodcock like SO is willing Lab under Corbyn to fail.
No, I know with absolute certainty that Corbyn will fail. The British public will never let an anti-western, apologist for terrorism, who is stuck in the early 1980s, anywhere near power. And quite right too. All those who refuse to recognise this - or have no problem with it - are complicit in allowing the Tories a completely free pass
Out of all the different ways of losing currently available to Labour, it's not trivially obvious that this choice was the worst.
@DAaronovitch: The very arguments that the SNP use to justify opposing English Sunday trading are the ones that render independence a fantasy. Or Brexit.
The SNP elite have now given up on independence, at least for a generation. They now want to exercise maximum, annoying, Scotland-benefiting influence at Westminster while ruling the roost in Holyrood, like many civic regionalist parties beforehand.
There's no shame in that. It's practical politics. The question is whether their fundamentalist indy wing will accept this.
What has English Sunday trading got to do with Scotland. How does getting into that 'benefit' Scotland?
@DAaronovitch: The very arguments that the SNP use to justify opposing English Sunday trading are the ones that render independence a fantasy. Or Brexit.
The SNP elite have now given up on independence, at least for a generation. They now want to exercise maximum, annoying, Scotland-benefiting influence at Westminster while ruling the roost in Holyrood, like many civic regionalist parties beforehand.
There's no shame in that. It's practical politics. The question is whether their fundamentalist indy wing will accept this.
What has English Sunday trading got to do with Scotland. How does getting into that 'benefit' Scotland?
Defeating Tory governments is beneficial in itself, irrespective of any other outcome, I would imagine is how they operate.
More that it annoys fair-minded people. After all, there isn't anyone on this earth who honestly thinks it's reasonable for Scottish MPs to veto a 100% English-only measure, even more so when what they were torpedoing applies in Scotland!
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's a political suicide note. Corbyn is frequently slurred as an apologist for terrorists, so this open letter must close Woodcock's career in Corbyn's Labour.
At what point do moderates in Labour say "enough is enough". If they can't get their party back, when do they leave and form their own?
Can you imagine what would be happening if the Tory leadership had been taken over by the BNP?
Labour won't split. The moderates will bide their time and wait till the corbynistas have had a couple of drubbings at the polls. At the moment they can just sit back and enjoy watching the Tories fighting each other like ferrets in a sack over the EU.
@DAaronovitch: The very arguments that the SNP use to justify opposing English Sunday trading are the ones that render independence a fantasy. Or Brexit.
The SNP elite have now given up on independence, at least for a generation. They now want to exercise maximum, annoying, Scotland-benefiting influence at Westminster while ruling the roost in Holyrood, like many civic regionalist parties beforehand.
There's no shame in that. It's practical politics. The question is whether their fundamentalist indy wing will accept this.
What has English Sunday trading got to do with Scotland. How does getting into that 'benefit' Scotland?
Gives Scotland a competitive advantage on the border.
We are not talking about a few bad apples. Only a few weeks back did we hear of allegations that anti-Semitism is rife in the Oxford University's Labour Students club.
I've always thought the "one or two rotten apples" analogy to be, well, a really rotten one. As anyone who has ever put a rotten (or even rotting) apple in a basket of fresh apples knows, pretty soon the whole lot will be rotten.
That is what is happening to the Labour party.
I thought that was the point of the expression: in saying someone claims "that it's only one or two bad apples" the speaking is imputing doubt that it goes no further, for the real world reasons you mention. Also used to emphasise the need to get rid of the bad apples before more harm results.
I've not looked at this case, but on the face of it I can't see why the hierarchy haven't realised the need to appear tough and go for zero-tolerance. Whilst the constant "terrorist sympathiser" slurs are wearing to say the least, it's a lot easier to make the case for a vaguely grown up dialogue with one's enemies when one can also point to a record of dealing with those whose views really are beyond acceptable. Although with the constant fear-mongering witch-hunting "man who hated Britain" shit it's a bit hard to know which ones are the bad apples and which ones are raising reasonable points.
The left has unpleasant friends (anti-semitism and refusal to condemn behaviour of some minorities however indefensible) just as the right does (racism, apartheid etc) but, to use exactly the wrong expression, the fact that all sides have their problems isn't an excuse for failing to be whiter than white.
Look at who Corbyn surrounds himself with. These are people with an active history of supporting terrorism. Corbyn himself refuses to share a platform with the PM during the referendum campaign. But look who has been happy to share platforms with in the past.
More that it annoys fair-minded people. After all, there isn't anyone on this earth who honestly thinks it's reasonable for Scottish MPs to veto a 100% English-only measure, even more so when what they were torpedoing applies in Scotland!
It doesn't seem to annoy anyone in Scotland though, at least not in any way that will affect votes, so they can be as hypocritical as they like and not suffer any consequences.
It doesn't seem to annoy anyone in Scotland though, at least not in any way that will affect votes, so they can be as hypocritical as they like and not suffer any consequences.
Indeed: the more hypocritical and dishonest, the better.
We are not talking about a few bad apples. Only a few weeks back did we hear of allegations that anti-Semitism is rife in the Oxford University's Labour Students club.
I've always thought the "one or two rotten apples" analogy to be, well, a really rotten one. As anyone who has ever put a rotten (or even rotting) apple in a basket of fresh apples knows, pretty soon the whole lot will be rotten.
That is what is happening to the Labour party.
I thought that was the point of the expression: in saying someone claims "that it's only one or two bad apples" the speaking is imputing doubt that it goes no further, for the real world reasons you mention. Also used to emphasise the need to get rid of the bad apples before more harm results.
I've not looked at this case, but on the face of it I can't see why the hierarchy haven't realised the need to appear tough and go for zero-tolerance. Whilst the constant "terrorist sympathiser" slurs are wearing to say the least, it's a lot easier to make the case for a vaguely grown up dialogue with one's enemies when one can also point to a record of dealing with those whose views really are beyond acceptable. Although with the constant fear-mongering witch-hunting "man who hated Britain" shit it's a bit hard to know which ones are the bad apples and which ones are raising reasonable points.
The left has unpleasant friends (anti-semitism and refusal to condemn behaviour of some minorities however indefensible) just as the right does (racism, apartheid etc) but, to use exactly the wrong expression, the fact that all sides have their problems isn't an excuse for failing to be whiter than white.
Look at who Corbyn surrounds himself with. These are people with an active history of supporting terrorism. Corbyn himself refuses to share a platform with the PM during the referendum campaign. But look who has been happy to share platforms with in the past.
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's a political suicide note. Corbyn is frequently slurred as an apologist for terrorists, so this open letter must close Woodcock's career in Corbyn's Labour.
At what point do moderates in Labour say "enough is enough". If they can't get their party back, when do they leave and form their own?
Can you imagine what would be happening if the Tory leadership had been taken over by the BNP?
Labour won't split. The moderates will bide their time and wait till the corbynistas have had a couple of drubbings at the polls. At the moment they can just sit back and enjoy watching the Tories fighting each other like ferrets in a sack over the EU.
Labour will split and so will the Tories, there will be a vast centre ground to be occupied.
@DAaronovitch: The very arguments that the SNP use to justify opposing English Sunday trading are the ones that render independence a fantasy. Or Brexit.
The SNP elite have now given up on independence, at least for a generation. They now want to exercise maximum, annoying, Scotland-benefiting influence at Westminster while ruling the roost in Holyrood, like many civic regionalist parties beforehand.
There's no shame in that. It's practical politics. The question is whether their fundamentalist indy wing will accept this.
What has English Sunday trading got to do with Scotland. How does getting into that 'benefit' Scotland?
Gives Scotland a competitive advantage on the border.
We are not talking about a few bad apples. Only a few weeks back did we hear of allegations that anti-Semitism is rife in the Oxford University's Labour Students club.
I've always thought the "one or two rotten apples" analogy to be, well, a really rotten one. As anyone who has ever put a rotten (or even rotting) apple in a basket of fresh apples knows, pretty soon the whole lot will be rotten.
That is what is happening to the Labour party.
I thought that was the point of the expression: in saying someone claims "that it's only one or two bad apples" the speaking is imputing doubt that it goes no further, for the real world reasons you mention. Also used to emphasise the need to get rid of the bad apples before more harm results.
I've not looked at this case, but on the face of it I can't see why the hierarchy haven't realised the need to appear tough and go for zero-tolerance. Whilst the constant "terrorist sympathiser" slurs are wearing to say the least, it's a lot easier to make the case for a vaguely grown up dialogue with one's enemies when one can also point to a record of dealing with those whose views really are beyond acceptable. Although with the constant fear-mongering witch-hunting "man who hated Britain" shit it's a bit hard to know which ones are the bad apples and which ones are raising reasonable points.
The left has unpleasant friends (anti-semitism and refusal to condemn behaviour of some minorities however indefensible) just as the right does (racism, apartheid etc) but, to use exactly the wrong expression, the fact that all sides have their problems isn't an excuse for failing to be whiter than white.
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
It's a political suicide note. Corbyn is frequently slurred as an apologist for terrorists, so this open letter must close Woodcock's career in Corbyn's Labour.
At what point do moderates in Labour say "enough is enough". If they can't get their party back, when do they leave and form their own?
Can you imagine what would be happening if the Tory leadership had been taken over by the BNP?
Labour won't split. The moderates will bide their time and wait till the corbynistas have had a couple of drubbings at the polls. At the moment they can just sit back and enjoy watching the Tories fighting each other like ferrets in a sack over the EU.
So let's say Corbyn leaves in a couple of years' time. Do you honestly think the Tories won't keep reminding the country that sensible Labour tolerated terrorist sympathizing anti semites for such a long period of time?
Comments
http://ourinsight.opinium.co.uk/sites/ourinsight.opinium.co.uk/files/lm01_tables_published_updated.pdf
The number of days it will take to form a government would make a good spread betting market.
So we think, but all this seems to be going down very well north of the border. The cult looks as entrenched as ever.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35757787
Is the underlying British Local Elections Database available outside academic circles? Been putting together my own spreadsheet of last results by council to get an actual unweighted national vote share by last election in each ward, pulling together stuff out of LEAP and Electoral Calculus (lots of fun with multiple input formats and especially with divisors for councils with random selections of single and multi-seat wards). Got some numbers for all councils, but not all of the 2015 numbers are collated yet (for the districts in particular am still using at lot of 2013 county results with lower turnouts), so expecting the 3 point Labour lead currently reflected to substantially evaporate by the time I am fully up to date.
Cos that's the way I roll.
Other than sounding ridiculous on a case-by-case basis, that doesn't sound revolutionary to me.
"Palace officials are understood to be particularly incensed with the fact that, even if any conversation took place about Europe, the idea of a referendum was some way in the future and Brexit was not even coined as a term."
Haha!
"No I didn't half-inch your wallet. I don't even know the meaning of the term 'half-inch'".
Was one of the sources Clegg? Or someone in his office who's taken the Murdoch shilling? Who else was at the dinner?
The "Windsor" woman is looking ever more barking. How far has she got to go before she's as barking as her husband, I wonder?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35763908
I don't really understand what us wrong or offensive about this?
My open letter to @jeremycorbyn asking him to take action to reverse decision to allow 9/11 apologist to join Labour
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdHcdSHWAAAF4XZ.jpg
It's astonishingly blunt for a Labour MP to send such an open letter to his leader.
That's right -
'Europe is going in the wrong direction and we need fundamental changes in our relationship with the EU - or we leave'
then
'although I haven't negotiated anything much in the way of changes, leaving would be the worst catastrophe in British history'
Sam Wang of PEC thinks Trump [and Clinton] has a >90% chance of winning the nomination.
http://election.princeton.edu/2016/03/09/how-surprising-was-the-sanders-win-in-michigan/
Trump currently available at 1.49 (67%).
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/707583610346446848
We are not talking about a few bad apples. Only a few weeks back did we hear of allegations that anti-Semitism is rife in the Oxford University's Labour Students club.
Tory MP and wife used taxpayer-backed Help to Buy loan to snap up new constituency house
Peter Bone and his wife used the scheme to borrow £35,000 towards the cost of their new-build home interest-free, and backed by the taxpayer
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-mp-wife-used-taxpayer-7449766
And how stupid of Osborne to set up a scheme that can allow this to take place.
Astonishing
Osbourne's shilling was a PC ship for the NATS Deputy Leader. Rightly they turned it down and turned on the Government instead!
I thought Scotland was supposed to have a wonderful education system?
I will miss the May elections,and although communications have improved in Nepal, I will only get sporadic contact with the rest of the world.
But being less cynical ... ''Most cricket in Oman is played by expatriate Indians and Pakistanis (and their descendants), rather than by native Omanis'' (wiki, but seems entirely credible). Given the national mix in the team it must be a bit interesting, but then less incendiary that Yorkshire CC politics.
This is the most in-depth article on the topic.
http://frontloading.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/a-delegate-count-reconciliation-quickie.html
There's also a link explaining how Rubio got his 5 delegates in LA. Basically, PR results in 1:1:1 for the top three.
''The Sunday Working (Scotland) Act 2003 (c 18) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. The aim of the Act was to close an anomaly in employment law in the United Kingdom, whereby shopworkers in England and Wales had the legal right to refuse to work on a Sunday, when shopworkers in Scotland did not enjoy this right.
The anomaly arose from the different legislation in force in Scotland and the rest of the UK regarding Sunday trading. In Scotland, there was never any legislation preventing Sunday trading, and shops could choose their own opening hours.''
(wiki)
Thanks for an excellent resource, and I wonder if you are working with MySociety at all on this, since they have much experience in both obtaining LG data and in visualisations.
That is what is happening to the Labour party.
Can you imagine what would be happening if the Tory leadership had been taken over by the BNP?
SNP prove yet again everything they say is a lie
Any sensible Blairite who wanted Corbyn out would do their best to fight for as many seats as possible thus avoiding being blamed when council seats are lost in 2016 as they will be considering Lab were 6% ahead in 2012 wen last fought.
In other words the bad apples need to be chucked out ASAP!
It does seem as if it was the Osmonds who reversed the meaning of the phrase:
http://www.npr.org/2011/05/09/136017612/bad-apple-proverbs-theres-one-in-every-bunch
If you want a phrase to excuse an organisation having a few problematic members then : "there is an arsehole in every population"
(Spoiler: No)
I've not looked at this case, but on the face of it I can't see why the hierarchy haven't realised the need to appear tough and go for zero-tolerance. Whilst the constant "terrorist sympathiser" slurs are wearing to say the least, it's a lot easier to make the case for a vaguely grown up dialogue with one's enemies when one can also point to a record of dealing with those whose views really are beyond acceptable. Although with the constant fear-mongering witch-hunting "man who hated Britain" shit it's a bit hard to know which ones are the bad apples and which ones are raising reasonable points.
The left has unpleasant friends (anti-semitism and refusal to condemn behaviour of some minorities however indefensible) just as the right does (racism, apartheid etc) but, to use exactly the wrong expression, the fact that all sides have their problems isn't an excuse for failing to be whiter than white.
All we need to know.
He should really have known better. Conservative governments have a long history of being defeated on Sunday Trading reform.
Then the Nats knifed him.
Serves him right.
https://twitter.com/TommySheppard/status/707633986407960576?s=09
Ask Scottish Lab.
@robertshrimsley: US poster girl for gun lobby is shot in the back by her four-year-old son https://t.co/VGYQqYN48O via @MailOnline
GW and Rupert!!