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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Results : February 25th 2016

SystemSystem Posts: 12,267
edited February 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Local By-Election Results : February 25th 2016

Kingswinford North and Wall Heath on Dudley (Con defence)
Result: Conservative 1,456 (54% +11%), Labour 934 (35% +8%), United Kingdom Independence Party 262 (10% -17%), Green Party 52 (2% -1%)
Conservative HOLD with a majority of 522 (19%) on a swing of 1.5% from Labour to Conservative

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Thanks Harry.
  • Clearly the denizens of Stratford-upon-Avon are unimpressed by their MP's surprise decision to favour Leave.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,674
    Broken sleazy Lib Dems on the rise.

    In off-topic news, some of the Irish ballot papers today appear to be almost two feet long.
  • FPT
    Thanks to everyone who flagged up the Donald at 3/1 on Betfair.
    My only previous bet on that market was a rocking 67p on Bloomberg at 130/1.
    Just taken a slice.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    edited February 2016
    EPG said:

    Broken sleazy Lib Dems on the rise.

    In off-topic news, some of the Irish ballot papers today appear to be almost two feet long.

    Do we get any exit polls from the Irish elections? And how much use are they, given it's an STV election?

    And yes, thanks very much Mr H.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,943
    FPT
    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,674
    edited February 2016

    EPG said:

    Broken sleazy Lib Dems on the rise.

    In off-topic news, some of the Irish ballot papers today appear to be almost two feet long.

    Do we get any exit polls from the Irish elections? And how much use are they, given it's an STV election?
    Votes are counted tomorrow, which it must be said is not the soundest urgency from an electoral integrity perspective, but it's for two reasons. 1. the count can take days. 2. government formation is unhurried because under the Irish constitution, only the Dáil can appoint a government, and it doesn't meet until several weeks after the vote
    There is one exit poll, released tomorrow at 7am. They tend to be leak-proof and reasonably accurate. Rumours on Twitter of a second exit poll, not publicly announced by anyone
    STV is somewhat proportional to first preferences so they are somewhat useful, but forecasts are only accurate within broad ranges, say 10 per cent of the size of the Dáil!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Broken sleazy Lib Dems on the rise.

    In off-topic news, some of the Irish ballot papers today appear to be almost two feet long.

    Do we get any exit polls from the Irish elections? And how much use are they, given it's an STV election?
    Votes are counted tomorrow, which it must be said is not the soundest urgency from an electoral integrity perspective, but it's for two reasons. 1. the count can take days. 2. government formation is unhurried because under the Irish constitution, only the Dáil can appoint a government, and it doesn't meet until several weeks after the vote
    There is one exit poll, released tomorrow at 7am. They tend to be leak-proof and reasonably accurate. Rumours on Twitter of a second exit poll, not publicly announced by anyone
    STV is somewhat proportional to first preferences so they are somewhat useful, but forecasts are only accurate within broad ranges, say 10 per cent of the size of the Dáil!
    I'm obliged. Thank you.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    This is a nice map, it's a little old, and the GOP race is effectively over, but lets keep this in mind for the GE in terms of Trump's local strengh and potential organization.

    https://twitter.com/sarahkliff/status/703282987681632256
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,736
    Roanoke Virginia

    GOP
    Trump 38
    Cruz 15
    Rubio 13
    Kasich 8
    Carson 8

    Dems
    Clinton 50
    Sanders 33

    http://www.roanoke.edu/about/news/rc_poll_feb_2016_va_primary_elections
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    I agree, I was just replying to a post by Rod.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,736
    WBUR Massachusetts

    GOP
    Trump 40
    Rubio 19
    Kasich 19
    Cruz 10
    Carson 5

    Dems
    Clinton 49
    Sanders 44
    http://s3.amazonaws.com/media.wbur.org/wordpress/1/files/2016/02/Topline-2016-02-WBUR-MA-Republican-Primary.pdf

  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
  • Regarding the "unaccompanied kids" in the Calais camps, why are the French authorities standing back and not ensuring that they are taken into care?
    Watching C4 News they keep pointing the finger at the UK authorities to "do something". yet neither C4 News or the BBC etc hold the French authorities to account? Why are the French authorities given a free pass on this?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,736
    Target Insyght Michigan GOP

    Trump 41
    Rubio 17
    Cruz 14
    Kasich 12
    Carson 8
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016/Target_Insyght_MI_GOP_Feb_2016.pdf
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    HYUFD said:

    Target Insyght Michigan GOP

    Trump 41
    Rubio 17
    Cruz 14
    Kasich 12
    Carson 8
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016/Target_Insyght_MI_GOP_Feb_2016.pdf

    WE LOVE THE DONALD WE LOVE THE DONALD
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,736
    We Ask America Illinois GOP

    Trump 38
    Rubio 21
    Cruz 16
    Kasich 9

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016/IL_GOP_Feb_2016.pdf
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,674
    HYUFD said:

    Target Insyght Michigan GOP

    Trump 41
    Rubio 17
    Cruz 14
    Kasich 12
    Carson 8
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016/Target_Insyght_MI_GOP_Feb_2016.pdf

    Isn't Michigan a Kasich target state?
    He runs the risk of hashtag winning in the Marco Rubio sense
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited February 2016

    Regarding the "unaccompanied kids" in the Calais camps, why are the French authorities standing back and not ensuring that they are taken into care?
    Watching C4 News they keep pointing the finger at the UK authorities to "do something". yet neither C4 News or the BBC etc hold the French authorities to account? Why are the French authorities given a free pass on this?

    It is the elephant in the room isn't it. It there everybody can see it, but nobody wants to mention it. The other is why don't they claim asylum? And are they really kids?

    Apparently they have been given 3 options with this move from part of the "jungle" *. One is claim asylum, two is move into the containers, three is move to another settlement. It seems that all the do gooders are up in arms at these "limiting" options.


    * It is just me or does that seem a bit racist?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,865
    edited February 2016
    EPG said:


    In off-topic news, some of the Irish ballot papers today appear to be almost two feet long.

    Seems a little excessive. Cutting that down to one foot would surely save on the cost of politics with printing costs, perhaps that could convince parties not to stand.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Carson's support is remarkably steady for a candidate that under any normal electorate would be at sub 2.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,736
    EPG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Target Insyght Michigan GOP

    Trump 41
    Rubio 17
    Cruz 14
    Kasich 12
    Carson 8
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016/Target_Insyght_MI_GOP_Feb_2016.pdf

    Isn't Michigan a Kasich target state?
    He runs the risk of hashtag winning in the Marco Rubio sense
    Yes, fallen under the Donald steamroller it seems
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,942
    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
  • This one is dedicated to Chris Bryant....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlho6cy3ZdQ
  • I see FIFA has voted in an "outsider". Call me sceptical, but do we really think much will change?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,736

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited February 2016
    With pleasing symmetry, the good professor is predicting that Hillary's losing margin in 2016 will be almost the same as Bill's winning margin in 1992...

    178:360
    370:168
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    I see FIFA has voted in an "outsider". Call me sceptical, but do we really think much will change?

    He seems like the best candidate, not perfect but better than the other main opponent.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I don't see how Hilary loses Oregon
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Trump hasn't really got started on his blue collar rust belt campaign yet. Tbh Its not the key area for the GOP primary. All about guns and god in the south right now.

    Expect him to do somewhat better in OH and PA than Romney ^^;
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Alistair said:

    I don't see how Hilary loses Oregon

    Neither do I tbh - but might be a good idea to back the GOP in long odds places when the markets come out.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,942
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Trump hasn't really got started on his blue collar rust belt campaign yet. Tbh Its not the key area for the GOP primary. All about guns and god in the south right now.

    Expect him to do somewhat better in OH and PA than Romney ^^;

    He also hasn't been attacked properly yet. Apparently none of his GOP rivals gathered an oppo case on him.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    My word ... Duke of Cambridge at Cardiff for the rugby ....

    He'll be a ringer for OGH in a few years !! :astonished:
  • rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    No way in hell Trump wins Illinois or Vermont either.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,172
    JackW said:

    My word ... Duke of Cambridge at Cardiff for the rugby ....

    He'll be a ringer for OGH in a few years !! :astonished:

    You have a rather splendid bouffant. Perhaps you can advise.
  • JackW said:

    My word ... Duke of Cambridge at Cardiff for the rugby ....

    He'll be a ringer for OGH in a few years !! :astonished:

    Rehashing Peter Crouch's gag...

    “What would you be if you weren’t a prince?”

    “A virgin”
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    No way in hell Trump wins Illinois or Vermont either.
    As long as Bernie endorses Hilary (He will) Vermont is safe.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,172
    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,942

    Pulpstar said:

    Trump hasn't really got started on his blue collar rust belt campaign yet. Tbh Its not the key area for the GOP primary. All about guns and god in the south right now.

    Expect him to do somewhat better in OH and PA than Romney ^^;

    He also hasn't been attacked properly yet. Apparently none of his GOP rivals gathered an oppo case on him.
    Even if you succeed in prosecuting the case against Trump, what are you left with? A reasonably successful businessman who has had some shady dealings in his past. Someone who has reasonably moderate views on most things and has flip-flopped on some key issues. It won't undermine the core of his platform so at best you're left fighting a traditional campaign to get over the line in the electoral college.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FPT @RichardNabavi

    No need to throw around insults...a careful reading on my post would have told you that I was calling the European politicians who write the regulation for the City naïve, not Remainders

    For example: given that revenue is volatile in a trade based industry, does it make sense to have a flexible cost base or high fixed costs? I prefer the former; our British regulators prefer the former; our European masters have decided the latter makes for sense.

    And, to be clear, leaving the EU won't mean less regulation for the City (finance should be a heavily regulated industry given its importance to the economy). It'll just mean better designed and more effective regulation.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    My word ... Duke of Cambridge at Cardiff for the rugby ....

    He'll be a ringer for OGH in a few years !! :astonished:

    You have a rather splendid bouffant. Perhaps you can advise.
    I confess to being head and shoulders above my peers .... :smile:
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,172
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Bwhahaha. Did he really say that? Not sure whether that is worse than the hundred Lib Dems prediction.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Bwhahaha. Did he really say that? Not sure whether that is worse than the hundred Lib Dems prediction.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/15/nate_silver_trump_has_about_5_chance_of_winning-comments.html
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,172
    JackW said:

    RobD said:

    JackW said:

    My word ... Duke of Cambridge at Cardiff for the rugby ....

    He'll be a ringer for OGH in a few years !! :astonished:

    You have a rather splendid bouffant. Perhaps you can advise.
    I confess to being head and shoulders above my peers .... :smile:
    Peers are not a good control group against which to compare baldness. ;)
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    If in five years time we're discussing President Trump and PM Corbyn, that's when I'll know that reality has jumped the shark. Or, alternatively, that my chemistry teacher was right and I have ended up as a complete loony.
  • Now, this is interesting. Looks like Osborne has decided not to hike taxes and piss off the Conservative base too much more, to me, but go for more spending cuts instead:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35672158
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Bwhahaha. Did he really say that? Not sure whether that is worse than the hundred Lib Dems prediction.
    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trumps-six-stages-of-doom/

    Plenty of other stuff like it
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Are you not entertained?

    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/703296766347714560

    Trump is the Rodney Dangerfield of politics.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    Now, this is interesting. Looks like Osborne has decided not to hike taxes and piss off the Conservative base too much more, to me, but go for more spending cuts instead:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35672158

    He should bring in that 33% relief for BR taxers though ! (HR can keep 40%, not playing politics of envy here :) )
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,736
    edited February 2016

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    Trump will likely win Florida and Iowa and Colorado and perhaps New Hampshire and Ohio and do well with some conservative Democrats. However Hillary likely holds Virginia and Nevada, with Castro her likely VP pick for a very narrow win. She had a ten point lead over Trump in Wisconsin yesterday so I cannot see any state which went for Gore and Kerry going to Trump although the margins may be tighter
  • Just made a three-figure donation to Vote Leave. Also signed up for leafleting and volunteering.

    Donate here: https://voteleave.nationbuilder.com/donate
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,172
    edited February 2016
    Speedy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Bwhahaha. Did he really say that? Not sure whether that is worse than the hundred Lib Dems prediction.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/15/nate_silver_trump_has_about_5_chance_of_winning-comments.html
    Can't watch right now. Was he talking about the primaries or the general?
  • Speedy said:

    Are you not entertained?

    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/703296766347714560

    Trump is the Rodney Dangerfield of politics.

    He certainly making his Apprentice show look rather tame.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,172
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Bwhahaha. Did he really say that? Not sure whether that is worse than the hundred Lib Dems prediction.
    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trumps-six-stages-of-doom/

    Plenty of other stuff like it
    I'll alert the popcorn suppliers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited February 2016
    On Thursday, the head of Germany's federal office for migration, Frank-Juergen Weise, said there were up to 400,000 people in the country whose identities were unknown to the authorities.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35667858

    I think the German's (they won't admit it) are probably shocked the scale of those that might be playing nice and honest.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,943
    edited February 2016
    Charles said:

    FPT @RichardNabavi

    No need to throw around insults...a careful reading on my post would have told you that I was calling the European politicians who write the regulation for the City naïve, not Remainders

    For example: given that revenue is volatile in a trade based industry, does it make sense to have a flexible cost base or high fixed costs? I prefer the former; our British regulators prefer the former; our European masters have decided the latter makes for sense.

    And, to be clear, leaving the EU won't mean less regulation for the City (finance should be a heavily regulated industry given its importance to the economy). It'll just mean better designed and more effective regulation.

    To give them a small amount of credit, they did get it half right.

    Investment banking 'compensation' has two problems:

    1. Earnings are volatile, and to ensure the continued existence of the firm, employee pay should be variable. Much better that no-one gets bonuses than the firm goes out of business, or a bunch of people get fired.

    2. A bonus culture brings asymmetrical risk-rewards. If you bet $1bn and win, you get a $50m bonus. If you bet $1bn and lose, well... unlucky shareholders.

    By forcing people to pay bonuses with large deferred elements, they tried to tackle (2). But the consequence of (2) is that compensation moved to being fixed rather than flexible, which meant that firms' have more trouble surviving downturns.

    I used to work at Goldman Sachs. It was a partnership. There was a guy who sat 20 yards from you whose entire wealth was in the firm. He was rich. But he was also utterly dependent on the firm remaining solvent. He cared about the risk you were taking. One of my current colleagues was a prop trader at Goldman at the same time I worked in research. Every day his partner came over and questioned him on his positions and the risk he was taking. It was his money and he cared.

    In a public company, it's the shareholders' money. If you do well: bonus. If you do badly: poor shareholders. In a public company, if you lose $1m, you lose your job. If you lose $100m, you lose your job. If you lose $1bn, you lose your job. The incentive is to gamble; it's fucked up risk-reward.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Now, this is interesting. Looks like Osborne has decided not to hike taxes and piss off the Conservative base too much more, to me, but go for more spending cuts instead:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35672158

    He should bring in that 33% relief for BR taxers though ! (HR can keep 40%, not playing politics of envy here :) )
    No. He should either treat pensions as deferred income, with the tax to be paid at drawdown on retirement, or simply tax at source and allow people to put it into a taxfree wrapper to save as they wish, with no tax payable at drawdown, but not both.
  • Osborne announcement of more cuts only a few months after splashing the cash. I think a lot of people will wonder what the bloody hell he is doing.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    Pulpstar said:

    Now, this is interesting. Looks like Osborne has decided not to hike taxes and piss off the Conservative base too much more, to me, but go for more spending cuts instead:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35672158

    He should bring in that 33% relief for BR taxers though ! (HR can keep 40%, not playing politics of envy here :) )
    No. He should either treat pensions as deferred income, with the tax to be paid at drawdown on retirement, or simply tax at source and allow people to put it into a taxfree wrapper to save as they wish, with no tax payable at drawdown, but not both.

    Pulpstar said:

    Now, this is interesting. Looks like Osborne has decided not to hike taxes and piss off the Conservative base too much more, to me, but go for more spending cuts instead:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35672158

    He should bring in that 33% relief for BR taxers though ! (HR can keep 40%, not playing politics of envy here :) )
    No. He should either treat pensions as deferred income, with the tax to be paid at drawdown on retirement, or simply tax at source and allow people to put it into a taxfree wrapper to save as they wish, with no tax payable at drawdown, but not both.
    Take out the tax on both sides :)
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Well he wasn't wrong.
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    I think fair enough Nate Silver didn't rate Trump's chances 6 months ago, I don't think anyone did. Where he's falling down as a political analyst is he's refusing (or being very slow) to adjust his position to the new reality.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Trump hasn't really got started on his blue collar rust belt campaign yet. Tbh Its not the key area for the GOP primary. All about guns and god in the south right now.

    Expect him to do somewhat better in OH and PA than Romney ^^;

    He also hasn't been attacked properly yet. Apparently none of his GOP rivals gathered an oppo case on him.
    Even if you succeed in prosecuting the case against Trump, what are you left with? A reasonably successful businessman who has had some shady dealings in his past. Someone who has reasonably moderate views on most things and has flip-flopped on some key issues. It won't undermine the core of his platform so at best you're left fighting a traditional campaign to get over the line in the electoral college.
    You're left with a racist who whips up animosity against Hispanics and tries to delegitimise the first black president by claiming he's not born in America and prefers mosques to churches. You're left with a man that has only the most superficial understanding of any policy area and builds a pro-Russian foreign policy because Putin patted him on his head. A man that regularly stiffed small business he owed money. One that bankrupted companies laying off thousands while he lived a playboy lifestyle. A sexist that has written about judging women as "pieces of ass" and engaged in serial adultery. A man that rages against illegal immigrants while using them to build his hotels. Someone prone to temper tantrums and bullying of subordinates, tempermentally completely unfit to be president.

    The Democrats tore down Romney and he was a far smarter, more talented and decent man than Trump is.
  • Osborne announcement of more cuts only a few months after splashing the cash. I think a lot of people will wonder what the bloody hell he is doing.

    Trying to become Prime Minister.

    He's looking happy because he's got Gove to agree to endorse him after the election, IMHO.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Now, this is interesting. Looks like Osborne has decided not to hike taxes and piss off the Conservative base too much more, to me, but go for more spending cuts instead:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35672158

    He should bring in that 33% relief for BR taxers though ! (HR can keep 40%, not playing politics of envy here :) )
    No. He should either treat pensions as deferred income, with the tax to be paid at drawdown on retirement, or simply tax at source and allow people to put it into a taxfree wrapper to save as they wish, with no tax payable at drawdown, but not both.

    Pulpstar said:

    Now, this is interesting. Looks like Osborne has decided not to hike taxes and piss off the Conservative base too much more, to me, but go for more spending cuts instead:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35672158

    He should bring in that 33% relief for BR taxers though ! (HR can keep 40%, not playing politics of envy here :) )
    No. He should either treat pensions as deferred income, with the tax to be paid at drawdown on retirement, or simply tax at source and allow people to put it into a taxfree wrapper to save as they wish, with no tax payable at drawdown, but not both.
    Take out the tax on both sides :)
    Even better!
  • Given Vegas is a mob controlled town, Trump is very likely to have very shady dealings there.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    RobD said:

    Speedy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    .
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Bwhahaha. Did he really say that? Not sure whether that is worse than the hundred Lib Dems prediction.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/15/nate_silver_trump_has_about_5_chance_of_winning-comments.html
    Can't watch right now. Was he taking about the primaries or the general?
    Primaries.
    Basically he made the error of multiplying the chances of Trump winning each stage, in fact he gave Trump a 2% chance:

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trumps-six-stages-of-doom/

    So his basic error was lets say this:
    If Trump has a 50% chance to win Iowa, 50 to win N.H. , 50 to win S.C and 50 to win Nevada then his chances to win the nomination are only 6.25%.

    Which is wrong, his chances are clearly 50% not 6.25%.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Well he wasn't wrong.
    Are you piling on Hilary for the General if it is Trump-Hilary ?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Now, this is interesting. Looks like Osborne has decided not to hike taxes and piss off the Conservative base too much more, to me, but go for more spending cuts instead:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35672158

    He should bring in that 33% relief for BR taxers though ! (HR can keep 40%, not playing politics of envy here :) )
    No. He should either treat pensions as deferred income, with the tax to be paid at drawdown on retirement, or simply tax at source and allow people to put it into a taxfree wrapper to save as they wish, with no tax payable at drawdown, but not both.
    The problem with the "tax at source, no tax on drawdown" option is that you cannot trust a future government not to tax the drawdown too.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,172
    Speedy said:

    RobD said:

    Speedy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    .
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Bwhahaha. Did he really say that? Not sure whether that is worse than the hundred Lib Dems prediction.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/15/nate_silver_trump_has_about_5_chance_of_winning-comments.html
    Can't watch right now. Was he taking about the primaries or the general?
    Primaries.
    Basically he made the error of multiplying the chances of Trump winning each stage, in fact he gave Trump a 2% chance:

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trumps-six-stages-of-doom/
    If that isn't worth a titter I don't know what is.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    @TwistedFireStopper Sent you a tweet
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    Osborne announcement of more cuts only a few months after splashing the cash. I think a lot of people will wonder what the bloody hell he is doing.

    Trying to become Prime Minister.

    He's looking happy because he's got Gove to agree to endorse him after the election, IMHO.
    He has my betslips in mind for sure.

    Like Donald Trump.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,172
    Speedy said:

    Are you not entertained?

    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/703296766347714560

    Trump is the Rodney Dangerfield of politics.

    Just sat down at my desk. Very entertained!
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited February 2016
    DanSmith said:

    I think fair enough Nate Silver didn't rate Trump's chances 6 months ago, I don't think anyone did. Where he's falling down as a political analyst is he's refusing (or being very slow) to adjust his position to the new reality.

    We now have real data to go on - actual votes in actual primaries.

    That changes things considerably.

    I was sceptical (bordering on outright dismissive) of trump's chances back in September. Not sure I'd have had him as low as 5%, but certainly not above 10% back then.

    I'm not sure I was wrong either.

    Without digging into all the data on past candidates (as Nate presumably has) - I'd assume that in 20 x GOP races minus 6 months, only one or two *Donald* type candidates would go the distance.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:



    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)

    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Bwhahaha. Did he really say that? Not sure whether that is worse than the hundred Lib Dems prediction.
    Nate is a numbers-only guy. Thus when the numbers are wrong, when the system being described is chaotic or in transition phase, or where we are in unprecedented territory, Nate will always get it wrong. But he will get it right when have good numbers and the law of large numbers actually applies.

    Someone earlier noted that JackW has an excellent prediction record. Well, with the number of forecasters on PB, if predictions were made purely randomly, someone would have had a good record over that period by pure chance. Retrospectively, there is no way of judging whether JackW's performance is due to skill or luck, and hence his past record is no indicator for future predictions.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Interesting fact: When Perot ran in 1992, turnout jumped 5%.

    Don't underestimate Trump's own Perot factor, and ability to reach parts of the electorate that have given up on Tweedledum politics...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    MTimT said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:



    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)

    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Bwhahaha. Did he really say that? Not sure whether that is worse than the hundred Lib Dems prediction.
    Nate is a numbers-only guy. Thus when the numbers are wrong, when the system being described is chaotic or in transition phase, or where we are in unprecedented territory, Nate will always get it wrong. But he will get it right when have good numbers and the law of large numbers actually applies.

    Someone earlier noted that JackW has an excellent prediction record. Well, with the number of forecasters on PB, if predictions were made purely randomly, someone would have had a good record over that period by pure chance. Retrospectively, there is no way of judging whether JackW's performance is due to skill or luck, and hence his past record is no indicator for future predictions.
    I like to pay attention to fellow bettors. @JackW is the honourable exception that proves the rule.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited February 2016
    Did I hear Chris Christie has endorsed the Donald?

    Edit yes just here on this thread! Doh!
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    RodCrosby said:

    Interesting fact: When Perot ran in 1992, turnout jumped 5%.

    Don't underestimate Trump's own Perot factor, and ability to reach parts of the electorate that have given up on Tweedledum politics...

    During the primaries so far Democratic turnout is 25% down, Republican turnout is 25% up on average.

    With Trump and Hillary it will be interesting too see if that happens in the GE too.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Trump hasn't really got started on his blue collar rust belt campaign yet. Tbh Its not the key area for the GOP primary. All about guns and god in the south right now.

    Expect him to do somewhat better in OH and PA than Romney ^^;

    He also hasn't been attacked properly yet. Apparently none of his GOP rivals gathered an oppo case on him.
    Even if you succeed in prosecuting the case against Trump, what are you left with? A reasonably successful businessman who has had some shady dealings in his past. Someone who has reasonably moderate views on most things and has flip-flopped on some key issues. It won't undermine the core of his platform so at best you're left fighting a traditional campaign to get over the line in the electoral college.
    You're left with a racist who whips up animosity against Hispanics and tries to delegitimise the first black president by claiming he's not born in America and prefers mosques to churches. You're left with a man that has only the most superficial understanding of any policy area and builds a pro-Russian foreign policy because Putin patted him on his head. A man that regularly stiffed small business he owed money. One that bankrupted companies laying off thousands while he lived a playboy lifestyle. A sexist that has written about judging women as "pieces of ass" and engaged in serial adultery. A man that rages against illegal immigrants while using them to build his hotels. Someone prone to temper tantrums and bullying of subordinates, tempermentally completely unfit to be president.

    The Democrats tore down Romney and he was a far smarter, more talented and decent man than Trump is.
    Not a fan then?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    philiph said:

    Did I hear Chris Christie has endorsed the Donald?

    Yeap.
    Guess who is laughing now (about Rubio):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=730KfKhsKsE
  • Pulpstar said:

    Now, this is interesting. Looks like Osborne has decided not to hike taxes and piss off the Conservative base too much more, to me, but go for more spending cuts instead:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35672158

    He should bring in that 33% relief for BR taxers though ! (HR can keep 40%, not playing politics of envy here :) )
    No. He should either treat pensions as deferred income, with the tax to be paid at drawdown on retirement, or simply tax at source and allow people to put it into a taxfree wrapper to save as they wish, with no tax payable at drawdown, but not both.
    The problem with the "tax at source, no tax on drawdown" option is that you cannot trust a future government not to tax the drawdown too.

    I can't evade tax. All I can do is try and protect the money I work very hard for as best I can, and lobby the Government to not punish people who do the right thing.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited February 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Pong said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    The strategic challenge Hillary has is that Trump will not be running a 51% campaign but instead reaching deep into her base and challenging shibboleths that she's ill-prepared to defend. Despite Trump's superficial negatives, Hillary has potentially a lower floor to her support. Trying to paint Trump as an out-of-touch rich guy a la Romney will not work in the same way.
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    That's probably broadly correct but it's game of swing, demographics, turnout and geography and with Trump, more will be up for grabs than in previous elections.

    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Well he wasn't wrong.
    Are you piling on Hilary for the General if it is Trump-Hilary ?
    Depends on;

    A the odds
    B the polls

    Boring answer, I know!
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Speedy said:

    RobD said:

    Speedy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    .
    Trump will do better with white working class whites and blacks than Romney did, Hillary will do better with white women and Hispanics than Obama did
    If you vote Democrat because you want someone who can stick it to the Republicans, arguably Trump has a stronger claim than Clinton after the way he has laid waste to everything the GOP could throw at him.
    I've got a feeling it's going to be a re-alignment election, with Trump winning in some most unlikely places.
    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Bwhahaha. Did he really say that? Not sure whether that is worse than the hundred Lib Dems prediction.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/15/nate_silver_trump_has_about_5_chance_of_winning-comments.html
    Can't watch right now. Was he taking about the primaries or the general?
    Primaries.
    Basically he made the error of multiplying the chances of Trump winning each stage, in fact he gave Trump a 2% chance:

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trumps-six-stages-of-doom/

    So his basic error was lets say this:
    If Trump has a 50% chance to win Iowa, 50 to win N.H. , 50 to win S.C and 50 to win Nevada then his chances to win the nomination are only 6.25%.

    Which is wrong, his chances are clearly 50% not 6.25%.
    Mathematically, his chances of winning all four was 6.25% [ assuming 50% in each was correct ].
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,942
    RodCrosby said:

    Interesting fact: When Perot ran in 1992, turnout jumped 5%.

    Don't underestimate Trump's own Perot factor, and ability to reach parts of the electorate that have given up on Tweedledum politics...

    Once it gets down to a two-horse race, Trump will also be able to bring the celebrity factor into play as no-one has done before. This will be particularly effective as a way of countering the identity politics playbook that HRC will employ.
  • The other side of Trump is this. He sounds quite measured and reasonable, just dropping in a shock-jock soundbite now and again for interest:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlTwh9Oc1qg

    I think those ruling him out for the Presidency are making a big mistake.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,070
    Evening all :)

    Had the great misfortune, having returned with the fish and chips for dinner, to listen to a few minutes of Donald Trump speaking at Fort Worth.

    The speech drifted from the insulting through the patronising to the barely credible to the almost entirely incoherent. The thought of this individual following the likes of Reagan, FDR and Lincoln to the Presidency put me off my cod in no uncertain terms.

    Apart from the insults directed at Rubio and Cruz, which could be excused as political knockabout, the speech seemed to be all about winning, bombing ISIS (as he called them) and his own narcissistic sense of superiority along the lines of "I'm smarter and richer than you but don't worry because I'll be President".

    That there are individuals here who rate him astonishes me - apart from those who wish to provoke a response who I can understand and those with an irrational dislike of the Clintons for reasons I cannot understand, what redeeming qualities does Trump possess ?

    I pity the poor Conservative successor to Cameron who might (and let's hope this doesn't happen) have to deal with this numbskull and the group of reprobates who will be in his administration since no one with any sense will want to be anywhere near a Trump White House.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Had the great misfortune, having returned with the fish and chips for dinner, to listen to a few minutes of Donald Trump speaking at Fort Worth.

    The speech drifted from the insulting through the patronising to the barely credible to the almost entirely incoherent. The thought of this individual following the likes of Reagan, FDR and Lincoln to the Presidency put me off my cod in no uncertain terms.

    Apart from the insults directed at Rubio and Cruz, which could be excused as political knockabout, the speech seemed to be all about winning, bombing ISIS (as he called them) and his own narcissistic sense of superiority along the lines of "I'm smarter and richer than you but don't worry because I'll be President".

    That there are individuals here who rate him astonishes me - apart from those who wish to provoke a response who I can understand and those with an irrational dislike of the Clintons for reasons I cannot understand, what redeeming qualities does Trump possess ?

    I pity the poor Conservative successor to Cameron who might (and let's hope this doesn't happen) have to deal with this numbskull and the group of reprobates who will be in his administration since no one with any sense will want to be anywhere near a Trump White House.

    what redeeming qualities does Trump possess ?

    A couple of thousand good redeeming qualities right about now.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited February 2016
    MTimT said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:



    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)

    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Bwhahaha. Did he really say that? Not sure whether that is worse than the hundred Lib Dems prediction.
    Nate is a numbers-only guy. Thus when the numbers are wrong, when the system being described is chaotic or in transition phase, or where we are in unprecedented territory, Nate will always get it wrong. But he will get it right when have good numbers and the law of large numbers actually applies.

    Someone earlier noted that JackW has an excellent prediction record. Well, with the number of forecasters on PB, if predictions were made purely randomly, someone would have had a good record over that period by pure chance. Retrospectively, there is no way of judging whether JackW's performance is due to skill or luck, and hence his past record is no indicator for future predictions.
    I'll forgive your outburst this once .... :smile:

    Clearly given a two horse race in 08 and 12 pure chance would allow for your "insight" but my ARSE also very accurately projected all the swing states with a fraction of a spitting distance except Missouri in 08 and Florida in 12 - missed by less than 0.5% in each case.

    Do you judge that "skill or luck" ?
  • Wales v France.

    Only in rugby is this difficult!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    edited February 2016
    @JackW Why do you think Hillary will break the normal 2 terms Dem; 2 terms GOP cycle ? Despite the avatar I'm certainly not ruling her out btw ^_~
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,172

    The other side of Trump is this. He sounds quite measured and reasonable, just dropping in a shock-jock soundbite now and again for interest:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlTwh9Oc1qg

    I think those ruling him out for the Presidency are making a big mistake.

    Yeah, I think there will be a big change in his speeches etc. after he wins the nomination.
  • Osborne announcement of more cuts only a few months after splashing the cash. I think a lot of people will wonder what the bloody hell he is doing.

    What splashing the cash?

    He stopped or postponed certain extremely unpopular cuts, some of which he would struggle to get through Parliament in one piece (with even Tories rebelling). That is not the same as splashing the cash. Splashing the cash generally involves boosting new spending, not merely cancelling a cut.

    As for what the bloody hell he's doing, the same as what he's been doing for six years now. Year after year cutting an incredibly large deficit.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2016
    surbiton said:

    Speedy said:

    RobD said:

    Speedy said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    RobD said:

    RodCrosby said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    As far as I can tell, extrapolating Norpoth's forecast would give EVs of:-

    Trump 360
    Clinton 178

    which is very close to my own pre-Norpoth forecast...

    One way to reach 178 is as follows:

    California (55), Washington (12), Hawaii (4), Vermont (3), New York (29), Massachusetts (11), Rhode Island (4), Connecticut (7), Maryland (10), Maine (4), Michigan (16), Illinois (20), DC (3). You could swap Oregon for Connecticut.
    I can't see Hillary losing either Connecticut or Oregon. I think she makes 200 against Trump in almost all scenarios.
    Connecticut no, about Oregon no one knows there, have been no polls there.
    I say leans Hillary, however the demographic and economic profile leans Trump.
    .
    /blockquote>

    We'll see what Nate Silver is really made of! ;)
    Nate "Donald has no more than a 5% chance" Silver :D ?
    Bwhahaha. Did he really say that? Not sure whether that is worse than the hundred Lib Dems prediction.
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/09/15/nate_silver_trump_has_about_5_chance_of_winning-comments.html
    Can't watch right now. Was he taking about the primaries or the general?
    Primaries.
    Basically he made the error of multiplying the chances of Trump winning each stage, in fact he gave Trump a 2% chance:

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trumps-six-stages-of-doom/

    So his basic error was lets say this:
    If Trump has a 50% chance to win Iowa, 50 to win N.H. , 50 to win S.C and 50 to win Nevada then his chances to win the nomination are only 6.25%.

    Which is wrong, his chances are clearly 50% not 6.25%.
    Mathematically, his chances of winning all four was 6.25% [ assuming 50% in each was correct ].
    But that's not how you do it in practice because if Trump won even one of them particularly one of the first 2, then he would have gotten the momentum for the nomination.

    It's what doomed the space shuttle, they said "oh it's a only a 1% chance that a component fails, then if we multiply it by all components it's only a 0.0001% chance that something goes wrong".

    In reality you should not multiply probabilities.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Wayne Barnes has been atrocious.
  • stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Had the great misfortune, having returned with the fish and chips for dinner, to listen to a few minutes of Donald Trump speaking at Fort Worth.

    The speech drifted from the insulting through the patronising to the barely credible to the almost entirely incoherent. The thought of this individual following the likes of Reagan, FDR and Lincoln to the Presidency put me off my cod in no uncertain terms.

    Apart from the insults directed at Rubio and Cruz, which could be excused as political knockabout, the speech seemed to be all about winning, bombing ISIS (as he called them) and his own narcissistic sense of superiority along the lines of "I'm smarter and richer than you but don't worry because I'll be President".

    That there are individuals here who rate him astonishes me - apart from those who wish to provoke a response who I can understand and those with an irrational dislike of the Clintons for reasons I cannot understand, what redeeming qualities does Trump possess ?

    I pity the poor Conservative successor to Cameron who might (and let's hope this doesn't happen) have to deal with this numbskull and the group of reprobates who will be in his administration since no one with any sense will want to be anywhere near a Trump White House.

    Listen to Trump at 15:10 to 17:48 on healthcare in the video I've just posted.

    Trump's "outrageousness" is an act.

    He does it differently. He cuts across the divide. And he will win.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,172
    Speedy said:

    surbiton said:



    Mathematically, his chances of winning all four was 6.25% [ assuming 50% in each was correct ].

    But that's not how you do it in practice because if Trump won even one of them particularly one of the first 2, then he would have gotten the momentum for the nomination.

    It's what doomed the space shuttle, they said "oh it's a only a 1% chance that a component fails, then if we multiply it by all components it's only a 0.0001% that something goes wrong".

    In reality you should not multiply probabilities.
    You should only if they are truly independent events. Four consecutive elections aren't independent.
This discussion has been closed.