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  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164

    For those Conservatives that think that ignoring a referendum result would be a constitutional outrage, three words: Mayor of Manchester.

    Hardly comparable though, is it.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Just skimmed the thread and went to put a small sum on The Big Short for Best Film, as per Mr. Roger's tip, and Ladbrokes only has the Best/Supporting Actors/Actresses awards up.

    Come on, chaps. It's not a minor category.

    Ladbrokes have now got the market back up but have cut The Big Short into 7/4 (was 8/1).
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Btw if watching Dele Ali play football doesn't warm your heart you have my sympathy.

    It was a good goal, but really salvaging a very poor Kane cross.

    Leicester City have been top of the league for 34 days since Nov 21, 2015. One more than Spurs have been since 1992.

    Are you entertained...?

    I have been pointing out for some time that Leicester have been underpriced. Most of the value has gone, but top 4 seems nailed on with 15 games to go, and a 10 point (and goal difference) gap to 5th place. Still 1.55 on Betfair and 12 to win the league.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Mortimer said:

    For those Conservatives that think that ignoring a referendum result would be a constitutional outrage, three words: Mayor of Manchester.

    Hardly comparable though, is it.
    No, this would be a legislative change introduced after a general election where the manifestos of an overall majority of MPs had explicitly proposed this change.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,757

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood constituency, Panelbase): SNP 50%, Lab 21%, Con 17%, Lib Dem 6%.

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood, regional list): SNP 48%, Lab 19%, Con 17%, Lib Dems 7%, Greens 5%.

    Cons agonisingly close to being second in Scotland.

    Oh my word
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:


    Erm, no. It affected us badly because we had a very large financial sector. Canada and Australia do not. Financial regulation had nothing to do with it, and despite the nostalgia on here, the Bank of England as sole regulator had been unable to prevent, to name but three, BCCI, Barings, or the secondary or fringe banking crisis. This is not to defend the FSA; merely to say its actions or inactions were largely irrelevant in the face of the global economic meltdown.

    The point about Brown's silly remarks is of course unfortunately unanswerable.
    Didn't stop Brown trying to re-write history:

    Brown has talked specifically about the end of Tory boom and bust, but to suggest, as he did in the Mail interview, that it was always the mantra seems faintly ludicrous to anyone with an internet connection and the inclination to trawl through his public statements and speeches.....

    But Brown's claim to the Mail just doesn't stand up. There have just been too many memorable references to the end of boom and bust - without any mention of Tory.


    http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck+no+more+boom+and+bust/2564157.html
    Anyone who claims to have abolished the business cycle is riding for a fall.
    The degree to which the business cycle had the slightest connection to the global financial meltdown has yet to be established.
    Brown's faulty belief encouraged him to overspend, resulting in a massive structural deficit when the boom-fuelled cyclical tax revenues evaporated
    Overspending by what criterion other than hindsight? Not by international comparison, historical comparison, or even by what the then-opposition was saying.
    Brown's criterion was spending whatever was required to win votes, hence PFI being kept off the balance sheet.

    PFI (as I've often said on pb) is the reason Brown should be put up against a wall, not the absurd charges around the global financial crisis.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Btw if watching Dele Ali play football doesn't warm your heart you have my sympathy.

    It was a good goal, but really salvaging a very poor Kane cross.

    Leicester City have been top of the league for 34 days since Nov 21, 2015. One more than Spurs have been since 1992.

    Are you entertained...?

    I have been pointing out for some time that Leicester have been underpriced. Most of the value has gone, but top 4 seems nailed on with 15 games to go, and a 10 point (and goal difference) gap to 5th place. Still 1.55 on Betfair and 12 to win the league.
    What price will you offer me Spurs to finish above Leicester?

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    We lost, let's change the rules.

    Plus ca change ...

    The Tories say we won, but not by enough - let's change the rules.
    What rules are the Tories changing? Boundaries are supposed to be updated regularly and will be 20 years obsolete by the next election otherwise.

    The law reducing the number of constituencies was in the manifestos of both the previous governing parties and was passed by the previous Parliament so the Tories won't have to do anything with that this time.
  • ManchesterKurtManchesterKurt Posts: 924

    For those Conservatives that think that ignoring a referendum result would be a constitutional outrage, three words: Mayor of Manchester.

    Common misconception.

    The forthcoming Mayor is for Greater Manchester, not the local authority of City of Manchester.

    Whilst the local authority of City of Manchester voted against a mayor, Salford, also part of Greater Manchester voted in favour.

    The population of Greater Manchester have never been given a say on a Greater Manchester mayor - I personally think such an idea would actually be far more popular locally than one for a local authority given how random and underbounded the local authority boundaries are in Greater Manchester.

    So I am struggling to understand how a Greater Manchester mayor is a constitutional outrage, unless for some reason you equate a local authority with the Metropolitan County.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited 2016 24

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:


    Erm, no. It affected us badly because we had a very large financial sector. Canada and Australia do not. Financial regulation had nothing to do with it, and despite the nostalgia on here, the Bank of England as sole regulator had been unable to prevent, to name but three, BCCI, Barings, or the secondary or fringe banking crisis. This is not to defend the FSA; merely to say its actions or inactions were largely irrelevant in the face of the global economic meltdown.

    The point about Brown's silly remarks is of course unfortunately unanswerable.
    Didn't stop Brown trying to re-write history:

    Brown has talked specifically about the end of Tory boom and bust, but to suggest, as he did in the Mail interview, that it was always the mantra seems faintly ludicrous to anyone with an internet connection and the inclination to trawl through his public statements and speeches.....

    But Brown's claim to the Mail just doesn't stand up. There have just been too many memorable references to the end of boom and bust - without any mention of Tory.


    http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck+no+more+boom+and+bust/2564157.html
    Anyone who claims to have abolished the business cycle is riding for a fall.
    The degree to which the business cycle had the slightest connection to the global financial meltdown has yet to be established.
    Brown's faulty belief encouraged him to overspend, resulting in a massive structural deficit when the boom-fuelled cyclical tax revenues evaporated
    Overspending by what criterion other than hindsight? Not by international comparison, historical comparison, or even by what the then-opposition was saying.
    Brown's criterion was spending whatever was required to win votes, hence PFI being kept off the balance sheet.

    PFI (as I've often said on pb) is the reason Brown should be put up against a wall, not the absurd charges around the global financial crisis.
    Never trust a man who goes to a party with a plastic bag with empty beer cans covering two half bricks.

    He was bonkers before he became PM.. Blair has a lot to answer for not chopping him off at the knees when he had the chance./
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842

    Labour are fecked

    THE comedian Eddie Izzard is being touted by Labour moderates as their secret weapon in the battle to wrest control of the party back from Jeremy Corbyn and his hard-left supporters.

    Izzard, 53, is a long-standing Labour activist and will be approached by senior MPs to stand for the ruling national executive committee (NEC) this year.

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/homeV2/article1659822.ece

    Labour are fucked until the membership - generally nicely off, it seems, and actually pretty well looked after by the Tories - start to look beyond posturing and self-congratulation to helping those that the Labour party is supposed to help. A coherent, moderate message that explains why it is in everyone's interests to protect the poorest and most vulnerable while encouraging aspiration, helping business and recognising the importance of national identity is where Labour needs to get to. But it is going to take a long, long time from here. The comfort zone - literally and metaphorically - is a lot more attractive to the members of the Stupid Party.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited 2016 24
    Roger said:

    "The Room" should also get a nomination at the Oscars

    Room is up for Best Picture and Best Director and a couple of others.
    http://oscar.go.com/news/home-featured-content-list/oscar-nominations-2016-the-complete-list-of-nominees
    I saw the Revenant this weekend. A fairly gruelling film, with great landscapes, but I don't think either the best film or actor of the year. Best Cinematography or supporting actor maybe. There wasn't much nuance in DiCaprio's performance.





    I always think the best judge of a film is how much of it stays with you after a week or so. It gets rid of the superficial. 'The Room' and 'The Big Short' are certainly up there. 'The Revenant' is mainly landscape and photography as you suggest
    What would you tip for the Oscars?

    Like anyone, I have my own ideas of what makes a great film, but the Academy voting process is a bit alien to me.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758


    Incidentally, a terrifying thought for several on here that are arguing for electoral reform, under PR I would almost certainly be an MP, be careful what you wish for.

    That's not terrifying.

    I think you're wrong on most things, but you seem like a thoughtful guy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,757
    Sunday Times: Labour in Scotland has never before dropped below the 23% it won when it first started fighting elections as an independent party in 1918
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood constituency, Panelbase): SNP 50%, Lab 21%, Con 17%, Lib Dem 6%.

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood, regional list): SNP 48%, Lab 19%, Con 17%, Lib Dems 7%, Greens 5%.

    Cons agonisingly close to being second in Scotland.

    Oh my word

    Corbyn is poison in Scotland too, it seems.

  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    edited 2016 24

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:


    Erm, no. It affected us badly because we had a very large financial sector. Canada and Australia do not. Financial regulation had nothing to do with it, and despite the nostalgia on here, the Bank of England as sole regulator had been unable to prevent, to name but three, BCCI, Barings, or the secondary or fringe banking crisis. This is not to defend the FSA; merely to say its actions or inactions were largely irrelevant in the face of the global economic meltdown.

    The point about Brown's silly remarks is of course unfortunately unanswerable.
    Didn't stop Brown trying to re-write history:

    Brown has talked specifically about the end of Tory boom and bust, but to suggest, as he did in the Mail interview, that it was always the mantra seems faintly ludicrous to anyone with an internet connection and the inclination to trawl through his public statements and speeches.....

    But Brown's claim to the Mail just doesn't stand up. There have just been too many memorable references to the end of boom and bust - without any mention of Tory.


    http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck+no+more+boom+and+bust/2564157.html
    Anyone who claims to have abolished the business cycle is riding for a fall.
    The degree to which the business cycle had the slightest connection to the global financial meltdown has yet to be established.
    Brown's faulty belief encouraged him to overspend, resulting in a massive structural deficit when the boom-fuelled cyclical tax revenues evaporated
    Overspending by what criterion other than hindsight? Not by international comparison, historical comparison, or even by what the then-opposition was saying.
    Brown's criterion was spending whatever was required to win votes, hence PFI being kept off the balance sheet.

    PFI (as I've often said on pb) is the reason Brown should be put up against a wall, not the absurd charges around the global financial crisis.
    Yes I agree, though his claims on ending boom and bust invited justifiable derision.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:


    Erm, no. It affected us badly because we had a very large financial sector. Canada and Australia do not. Financial regulation had nothing to do with it, and despite the nostalgia on here, the Bank of England as sole regulator had been unable to prevent, to name but three, BCCI, Barings, or the secondary or fringe banking crisis. This is not to defend the FSA; merely to say its actions or inactions were largely irrelevant in the face of the global economic meltdown.

    The point about Brown's silly remarks is of course unfortunately unanswerable.
    Didn't stop Brown trying to re-write history:

    Brown has talked specifically about the end of Tory boom and bust, but to suggest, as he did in the Mail interview, that it was always the mantra seems faintly ludicrous to anyone with an internet connection and the inclination to trawl through his public statements and speeches.....

    But Brown's claim to the Mail just doesn't stand up. There have just been too many memorable references to the end of boom and bust - without any mention of Tory.


    http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck+no+more+boom+and+bust/2564157.html
    Anyone who claims to have abolished the business cycle is riding for a fall.
    The degree to which the business cycle had the slightest connection to the global financial meltdown has yet to be established.
    Brown's faulty belief encouraged him to overspend, resulting in a massive structural deficit when the boom-fuelled cyclical tax revenues evaporated
    Overspending by what criterion other than hindsight? Not by international comparison, historical comparison, or even by what the then-opposition was saying.
    Brown's criterion was spending whatever was required to win votes, hence PFI being kept off the balance sheet.

    PFI (as I've often said on pb) is the reason Brown should be put up against a wall, not the absurd charges around the global financial crisis.
    Brown is not blamed for the global crisis. He is blamed rightly for how the crisis hit the UK and our absurd overspending before and after it etc
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    NEW @JeremyCorbyn tells @FaisalIslam @UKLabour too defensive on immigration record and refugees in Calais should allowed to come to Britain.

    Another astute announcement by Corbyn

    It's so easy for a clown politician to dispense charity with largesse when it's our, the taxpayers money, rather than their own.

    How many refugees did Yvette Cooper take in to the house we paid for?
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood constituency, Panelbase): SNP 50%, Lab 21%, Con 17%, Lib Dem 6%.

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood, regional list): SNP 48%, Lab 19%, Con 17%, Lib Dems 7%, Greens 5%.

    Cons agonisingly close to being second in Scotland.

    Oh my word
    That really is extraordinary

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says he's read "some but not all" of Margaret Beckett's 15-page report into why Labour lost last year https://t.co/GyjwaQiWku
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842

    Btw if watching Dele Ali play football doesn't warm your heart you have my sympathy.

    It was a good goal, but really salvaging a very poor Kane cross.

    Leicester City have been top of the league for 34 days since Nov 21, 2015. One more than Spurs have been since 1992.

    Are you entertained...?

    I have been pointing out for some time that Leicester have been underpriced. Most of the value has gone, but top 4 seems nailed on with 15 games to go, and a 10 point (and goal difference) gap to 5th place. Still 1.55 on Betfair and 12 to win the league.

    We'll know a lot more after Leicester's next three games. If they get through them with five points or more they will be seen as serious title challengers. As Spurs showed in the Cup match, though, the back-up is not that hot. Injuries could yet bite. But it would be brilliant of they could hold on and finish second to Spurs.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Observer, but is that because Corbyn's so terrible, or because he inherited an awful position north of the border?

    Mr. L, aye, doesn't tempt me now.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:


    Erm, no. It affected us badly because we had a very large financial sector. Canada and Australia do not. Financial regulation had nothing to do with it, and despite the nostalgia on here, the Bank of England as sole regulator had been unable to prevent, to name but three, BCCI, Barings, or the secondary or fringe banking crisis. This is not to defend the FSA; merely to say its actions or inactions were largely irrelevant in the face of the global economic meltdown.

    The point about Brown's silly remarks is of course unfortunately unanswerable.
    Didn't stop Brown trying to re-write history:

    Brown has talked specifically about the end of Tory boom and bust, but to suggest, as he did in the Mail interview, that it was always the mantra seems faintly ludicrous to anyone with an internet connection and the inclination to trawl through his public statements and speeches.....

    But Brown's claim to the Mail just doesn't stand up. There have just been too many memorable references to the end of boom and bust - without any mention of Tory.


    http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck+no+more+boom+and+bust/2564157.html
    Anyone who claims to have abolished the business cycle is riding for a fall.
    The degree to which the business cycle had the slightest connection to the global financial meltdown has yet to be established.
    Brown's faulty belief encouraged him to overspend, resulting in a massive structural deficit when the boom-fuelled cyclical tax revenues evaporated
    Overspending by what criterion other than hindsight? Not by international comparison, historical comparison, or even by what the then-opposition was saying.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3333125.stm
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2879143/IMF-implores-Brown-to-cut-his-borrowing.html
    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2005/apr/18/politics.ukgeneralelection20051
    Damn you and your facts.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    For those Conservatives that think that ignoring a referendum result would be a constitutional outrage, three words: Mayor of Manchester.

    Common misconception.

    The forthcoming Mayor is for Greater Manchester, not the local authority of City of Manchester.

    Whilst the local authority of City of Manchester voted against a mayor, Salford, also part of Greater Manchester voted in favour.

    The population of Greater Manchester have never been given a say on a Greater Manchester mayor - I personally think such an idea would actually be far more popular locally than one for a local authority given how random and underbounded the local authority boundaries are in Greater Manchester.

    So I am struggling to understand how a Greater Manchester mayor is a constitutional outrage, unless for some reason you equate a local authority with the Metropolitan County.
    There was a referendum for one form of the idea. It was rejected. A new form of the idea was put forward. Rather than subject the new idea to another referendum, it was imposed. If the new idea was that popular, why not get democratic consent for it?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,842

    Mr. Observer, but is that because Corbyn's so terrible, or because he inherited an awful position north of the border?

    Mr. L, aye, doesn't tempt me now.

    The theory was that Corbyn would win votes back. But Labour has continued to lose them. At the very least, he has done nothing to halt the decline. No surprise really. He is a joke.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    What cracks me p is plaid Cymru doing virtually no better under any system.

    I hope we get it at some point though.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Charles said:


    Incidentally, a terrifying thought for several on here that are arguing for electoral reform, under PR I would almost certainly be an MP, be careful what you wish for.

    That's not terrifying.

    I think you're wrong on most things, but you seem like a thoughtful guy.
    Thank you Charles. I'm happy to disagree with anybody, Nick Palmer gets more stick than anybody on here but he never resorts to abuse.

    I guess my point about electoral reform is when all is said and done few people actually want it because of vested interests.

  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    For those Conservatives that think that ignoring a referendum result would be a constitutional outrage, three words: Mayor of Manchester.

    Common misconception.

    The forthcoming Mayor is for Greater Manchester, not the local authority of City of Manchester.

    Whilst the local authority of City of Manchester voted against a mayor, Salford, also part of Greater Manchester voted in favour.

    The population of Greater Manchester have never been given a say on a Greater Manchester mayor - I personally think such an idea would actually be far more popular locally than one for a local authority given how random and underbounded the local authority boundaries are in Greater Manchester.

    So I am struggling to understand how a Greater Manchester mayor is a constitutional outrage, unless for some reason you equate a local authority with the Metropolitan County.
    There was a referendum for one form of the idea. It was rejected. A new form of the idea was put forward. Rather than subject the new idea to another referendum, it was imposed. If the new idea was that popular, why not get democratic consent for it?
    Personally I am not a fan of the over-use of referenda. For moments of massive (inter)national change, perhaps. But we have enough elected representatives and tiers of government for there to be ongoing oversight for the vast, vast, vast majority of issues.

    A referendum is no replacement for representative government. And at the end of the day, a necessary policy might not be 'popular' when first suggested, but the end result brings people around.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Observer, aye. Whilst his views are laughable, it's actually quite tragic not only for Labour, but politics in this country generally. The electorate need a genuine choice come polling day, not a choice between the Conservatives and a Labour Party that's gone mad.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,354
    Roger said:

    Re 'The Big Short' . Here's a short clip which typifies the film and explains the theory of the crash in three minutes. (It IS an entertaining film and probably better than Wolf of Wall Street)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hG4X5iTK8M


    Ok. You've convinced me. Going to see this today.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @politicshome: Jeremy Corbyn's conference speech to be moved to avoid being 'picked over' - https://t.co/bQLfMa7Kto https://t.co/geaepsyaWQ
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    Re 'The Big Short'

    As they say in Newcastle 'The boat has sailed'. At 10/1 it was a good bet at 3/1 it's not.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Roger said:

    "The Room" should also get a nomination at the Oscars

    Room is up for Best Picture and Best Director and a couple of others.
    http://oscar.go.com/news/home-featured-content-list/oscar-nominations-2016-the-complete-list-of-nominees
    I saw the Revenant this weekend. A fairly gruelling film, with great landscapes, but I don't think either the best film or actor of the year. Best Cinematography or supporting actor maybe. There wasn't much nuance in DiCaprio's performance.





    I always think the best judge of a film is how much of it stays with you after a week or so. It gets rid of the superficial. 'The Room' and 'The Big Short' are certainly up there. 'The Revenant' is mainly landscape and photography as you suggest
    What would you tip for the Oscars?

    Like anyone, I have my own ideas of what makes a great film, but the Academy voting process is a bit alien to me.
    The average Academy voter is a white, 60+ West Coast American male. You have to start from there when trying to understand how they'll vote, and bear in mind the herd instinct.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Corbyn's latest pitch to the British electorate:

    “The Falkland Islands should be handed back to Argentina as part of a “power-sharing” deal, Jeremy Corbyn has told South American diplomats.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/12117755/Jeremy-Corbyn-wants-a-Northern-Ireland-style-power-sharing-deal-for-the-Falklands.html
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says he's read "some but not all" of Margaret Beckett's 15-page report into why Labour lost last year https://t.co/GyjwaQiWku

    Why would he be interested in what Labour did before his rise to power? His focus is not on trying to defend the past - he rejects that utterly. Indeed he rebelled often enough for it to be clear that he had no confidence in what Labour has stood for in the past - it was just a label he used for personal gain when standing for election.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:


    Erm, no. It affected us badly because we had a very large financial sector. Canada and Australia do not. Financial regulation had nothing to do with it, and despite the nostalgia on here, the Bank of England as sole regulator had been unable to prevent, to name but three, BCCI, Barings, or the secondary or fringe banking crisis. This is not to defend the FSA; merely to say its actions or inactions were largely irrelevant in the face of the global economic meltdown.

    The point about Brown's silly remarks is of course unfortunately unanswerable.
    Didn't stop Brown trying to re-write history:

    Brown has talked specifically about the end of Tory boom and bust, but to suggest, as he did in the Mail interview, that it was always the mantra seems faintly ludicrous to anyone with an internet connection and the inclination to trawl through his public statements and speeches.....

    But Brown's claim to the Mail just doesn't stand up. There have just been too many memorable references to the end of boom and bust - without any mention of Tory.


    http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck+no+more+boom+and+bust/2564157.html
    Anyone who claims to have abolished the business cycle is riding for a fall.
    The degree to which the business cycle had the slightest connection to the global financial meltdown has yet to be established.
    Brown's faulty belief encouraged him to overspend, resulting in a massive structural deficit when the boom-fuelled cyclical tax revenues evaporated
    Overspending by what criterion other than hindsight? Not by international comparison, historical comparison, or even by what the then-opposition was saying.
    By analysing the structural deficit as a percentage of GDP.

    Economics always has an element of hindsight, but it's the Chancellor's job to steer the ship. And he got it spectacularly wrong.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited 2016 24

    Mr. Observer, but is that because Corbyn's so terrible, or because he inherited an awful position north of the border?

    Mr. L, aye, doesn't tempt me now.

    Ladbroke's 7/4 against is still the most generous offer [for The Big Short to win the Oscar] on Oddschecker. I fear we have missed the value Roger highlighted.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Mr. Observer, but is that because Corbyn's so terrible, or because he inherited an awful position north of the border?

    Mr. L, aye, doesn't tempt me now.

    The theory was that Corbyn would win votes back. But Labour has continued to lose them. At the very least, he has done nothing to halt the decline. No surprise really. He is a joke.

    I sympathise with your stance but where we part is your suggestion that Labour would do better under a different leader. Unfortunately for everybody the Labour Party is in terminal decline, it has allowed itself to be overrun by middle class intelligentsia that sneer at white vans and flags long before Corbyn became news.

    It's too simplistic to blame Corbyn I'm afraid, his opponents in the leadership contest were dire.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I guess the Tories have a better chance of coming second in terms of Scottish constituency votes rather than the list section because UKIP supporters are more likely to vote Tory in the former.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. L, aye, irksome when that happens, but it's the nature of things (still remember the 2012 Spanish Grand Prix. Was when I started checking Twitter a bit, and discovered Hamilton, then on pole, was disqualified. Quickly shoved money on 2nd Maldonado and 3rd Alonso (1st and 2nd after the disqualification) to lead lap 1 at about 6/1 or so. Was rather lovely).
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Btw if watching Dele Ali play football doesn't warm your heart you have my sympathy.

    It was a good goal, but really salvaging a very poor Kane cross.

    Leicester City have been top of the league for 34 days since Nov 21, 2015. One more than Spurs have been since 1992.

    Are you entertained...?

    I have been pointing out for some time that Leicester have been underpriced. Most of the value has gone, but top 4 seems nailed on with 15 games to go, and a 10 point (and goal difference) gap to 5th place. Still 1.55 on Betfair and 12 to win the league.

    We'll know a lot more after Leicester's next three games. If they get through them with five points or more they will be seen as serious title challengers. As Spurs showed in the Cup match, though, the back-up is not that hot. Injuries could yet bite. But it would be brilliant of they could hold on and finish second to Spurs.

    Our reserves were poor this week, but played very well at WHL before conceeding the penalty that led to the replay. Leicester have taken 4 points off Spurs in the League this season and will finish above them.

    Significantly both Vardy and Mahrez had great games yesterday. Sure the next 3 games (Liv H, ManC A, Ars A) will be interesting, but all of those teams (and Spurs) are in multiple competitions. Liverpool have a League Cup semi-final and a home FA cup tie against West Ham before they come to Leicester on the 2nd. Draws against each of the next 3 would keep Leicester right up there. We have a good run of fixtures in March/April too. There is a bit of betting value left.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    A couple of points.

    On the previous thread TSE made an excellent point about Conservative canvassing, how organised and professional the operation is, by comparison the UKIP approach is shambolic; no back data, no targeting, naive canvassers enthusiastically knocking door after door. This time last year I attended a campaign meeting with the UKIP hierarchy and was told to get out in our target areas, none of us knew what our target areas were. This remains the single biggest problem UKIP face, 4m voters but spread across the country and within constituencies, the Libs have worked out a way of ploughing limited resources into areas that are ripe for picking.

    Incidentally, a terrifying thought for several on here that are arguing for electoral reform, under PR I would almost certainly be an MP, be careful what you wish for.

    (Light blue touch paper and retreat safe distance)

    I disagree with you on a lot, but many people share your views, and so with no way to gauge if you would be good at the job, I would welcome seeing you as an MP. I also suspect it would be entetaiming.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    watford30 said:

    NEW @JeremyCorbyn tells @FaisalIslam @UKLabour too defensive on immigration record and refugees in Calais should allowed to come to Britain.

    Another astute announcement by Corbyn

    It's so easy for a clown politician to dispense charity with largesse when it's our, the taxpayers money, rather than their own.

    How many refugees did Yvette Cooper take in to the house we paid for?
    And if they are refugees, they are the responsibility of the country they first reached after leaving their homeland. If they didn't seek asylum at that stage, they are trying to play the system and thus have to be treated as migrants and thus cannot seek the status they are now claiming.

    We have well-established international rules for all of this. Let's stick to them.

    I am all for offering as much support to those seeking asylum as we can. But they must be genuine, they must be vetted and those who fail must be returned.

    Add into that a massive international effort to crack down on the gangs who are running people through Europe and we might finally start seeing an end to this mass exploitation - of both people and the system.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,022
    Cricket. Sadly, Cook’s out. Still 98 needed avoid the follow-on.

    Big Short on at out local cinema next week. Looks like Tuesday afternoon’s activity is decided upon!
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Btw if watching Dele Ali play football doesn't warm your heart you have my sympathy.

    It was a good goal, but really salvaging a very poor Kane cross.

    Leicester City have been top of the league for 34 days since Nov 21, 2015. One more than Spurs have been since 1992.

    Are you entertained...?

    I have been pointing out for some time that Leicester have been underpriced. Most of the value has gone, but top 4 seems nailed on with 15 games to go, and a 10 point (and goal difference) gap to 5th place. Still 1.55 on Betfair and 12 to win the league.

    We'll know a lot more after Leicester's next three games. If they get through them with five points or more they will be seen as serious title challengers. As Spurs showed in the Cup match, though, the back-up is not that hot. Injuries could yet bite. But it would be brilliant of they could hold on and finish second to Spurs.

    Our reserves were poor this week, but played very well at WHL before conceeding the penalty that led to the replay. Leicester have taken 4 points off Spurs in the League this season and will finish above them.

    Significantly both Vardy and Mahrez had great games yesterday. Sure the next 3 games (Liv H, ManC A, Ars A) will be interesting, but all of those teams (and Spurs) are in multiple competitions. Liverpool have a League Cup semi-final and a home FA cup tie against West Ham before they come to Leicester on the 2nd. Draws against each of the next 3 would keep Leicester right up there. We have a good run of fixtures in March/April too. There is a bit of betting value left.
    So what price will you offer Spurs finishing above Leicester?

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Cricket. Sadly, Cook’s out. Still 98 needed avoid the follow-on.

    Big Short on at out local cinema next week. Looks like Tuesday afternoon’s activity is decided upon!

    I was going to see it last night but didn't get round to it. Might go tonight.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Simon, sensible suggestions, but the crisis has a long way to go. The question is how bad it gets before the referendum, and whether things are worsening or improving at that stage.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    He couldn't manage 15 sides of A4?
    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says he's read "some but not all" of Margaret Beckett's 15-page report into why Labour lost last year https://t.co/GyjwaQiWku

  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's latest pitch to the British electorate:

    “The Falkland Islands should be handed back to Argentina as part of a “power-sharing” deal, Jeremy Corbyn has told South American diplomats.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/12117755/Jeremy-Corbyn-wants-a-Northern-Ireland-style-power-sharing-deal-for-the-Falklands.html

    It shows how little he understands the history. You can't hand something back to someone who never had it in the past. You are simply giving it away.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Faisal seems genuinely rather WTF when interviewing Corbyn this morning.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164

    AndyJS said:

    I always thought the Tories had a good chance of holding it, due to the demographics being in their favour. Virtually every small town Midlands constituency swung from Labour to Conservative for the same reasons.

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Somebody was asking about surprise wins for the conservatives. They had undoubtedly given up on Cannock Chase. We had one national mail shot, one 'insert name her' candidate shot, no canvassing by phone or door to door, and just two posters - one of Miliband in Salmond's pocket, and one saying 'vote Milling' on the wall of the local funeral parlour.

    Yet they still won with an average swing against a Labour campaign that was so hyperactive you would have sworn all its activists were on speed. Admittedly, I thought at the time it was a mistake to campaign on 'Save Stafford Hospital', but in the end I don't think it made any difference.

    This tells me 2 things:

    1) focus groups are a waste of money.

    2) in the end, it looks as if the campaigns made no difference - people voted on national issues, e.g. Miliband's hopelessness and Labour's track record, or tuition fees.

    That leads inexorably to a third conclusion;

    3) Labour are facing major losses in 2020.

    I have just spent a couple of days in the East Midlands, and was taken with how much the local economies seem to be moving forward. Places that were marginals no longer feel like places you would expect Labour to get much of a hearing, whichever wing of the party is talking to voters.
    This ties in very well with a point I've made a couple of times since May. There are far fewer of the usual winnable marginals for any of the opposition parties next time.

    As with Mid-Dorset and North Poole, the national demographics have turned overwhelmingly in the Tories favour since 97 and 01. With accelerated housebuilding, dramatically reduced public sector employment and increasing numbers of retirees, this is going trend is going to continue for at least a decade. With the addition of boundary changes and the Corbo electoral bonus next time, if the Tories have a vaguely charismatic and non-insider leader (I'm increasingly thinking Greg Clarke), 2020 could well be landslide territory.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    kle4 said:

    A couple of points.

    On the previous thread TSE made an excellent point about Conservative canvassing, how organised and professional the operation is, by comparison the UKIP approach is shambolic; no back data, no targeting, naive canvassers enthusiastically knocking door after door. This time last year I attended a campaign meeting with the UKIP hierarchy and was told to get out in our target areas, none of us knew what our target areas were. This remains the single biggest problem UKIP face, 4m voters but spread across the country and within constituencies, the Libs have worked out a way of ploughing limited resources into areas that are ripe for picking.

    Incidentally, a terrifying thought for several on here that are arguing for electoral reform, under PR I would almost certainly be an MP, be careful what you wish for.

    (Light blue touch paper and retreat safe distance)

    I disagree with you on a lot, but many people share your views, and so with no way to gauge if you would be good at the job, I would welcome seeing you as an MP. I also suspect it would be entetaiming.
    Thank you. I stood for parliament by sheer chance, I wouldn't do it again. But I'd recommend that a few on here gave it a go, it would certainly open your eyes to see what occurs close to the action, it's horrible, this place is like a children's party by comparison. I refer a lot to Nick Palmer, he is the antithesis of what I believe in but he does it with good grace and manners, he's a decent bloke.

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    He couldn't manage 15 sides of A4?

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says he's read "some but not all" of Margaret Beckett's 15-page report into why Labour lost last year https://t.co/GyjwaQiWku

    Corbyn's arrogant. He won't demean himself by reading something he considers to be beneath him.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Re Farron, what sort of suicide pact is he wishing for here?

    Is he hoping to be just far enough way to survive the blast?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCNormanS: A Corbyn Govt is "not a credible notion in any sense" - @NicolaSturgeon @MarrShow
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164
    edited 2016 24

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:


    Erm, no. It affected us badly because we had a very large financial sector. Canada and Australia do not. Financial regulation had nothing to do with it, and despite the nostalgia on here, the Bank of England as sole regulator had been unable to prevent, to name but three, BCCI, Barings, or the secondary or fringe banking crisis. This is not to defend the FSA; merely to say its actions or inactions were largely irrelevant in the face of the global economic meltdown.

    The point about Brown's silly remarks is of course unfortunately unanswerable.
    Didn't stop Brown trying to re-write history:

    Brown has talked specifically about the end of Tory boom and bust, but to suggest, as he did in the Mail interview, that it was always the mantra seems faintly ludicrous to anyone with an internet connection and the inclination to trawl through his public statements and speeches.....

    But Brown's claim to the Mail just doesn't stand up. There have just been too many memorable references to the end of boom and bust - without any mention of Tory.


    http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck+no+more+boom+and+bust/2564157.html
    Anyone who claims to have abolished the business cycle is riding for a fall.
    The degree to which the business cycle had the slightest connection to the global financial meltdown has yet to be established.
    But the degree to which it ignoring it created the British structural deficit is bleedin' obvious.

    As a Tory, one of my major worries about the 'Labour crashed the economy' is that it is a blunt tool - it only needs public perceptions to be changed (by, for example, a film - any ideas?) for the capital to be lost. 'Labour only know how to spend - and they crashed the economy' might have that added nuance. Luckily, electing an unreconstituted 70s public spender in the form of Corbo probably means the meme has legs for another 10 years.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCNormanS: Corbyn idea of "subs without nukes" is "ridiculous" says @NicolaSturgeon @MarrShow
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Or he's so convinced he's got the right suspect that he's refusing to look for the real culprit.
    watford30 said:

    He couldn't manage 15 sides of A4?

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says he's read "some but not all" of Margaret Beckett's 15-page report into why Labour lost last year https://t.co/GyjwaQiWku

    Corbyn's arrogant. He won't demean himself by reading something he considers to be beneath him.
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476

    He couldn't manage 15 sides of A4?

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says he's read "some but not all" of Margaret Beckett's 15-page report into why Labour lost last year https://t.co/GyjwaQiWku

    Why bother when he knows that it's a load of nonsense.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    Mr. Simon, sensible suggestions, but the crisis has a long way to go. The question is how bad it gets before the referendum, and whether things are worsening or improving at that stage.

    We need to change the language of the debate - and call it for what it is. But the media won't allow that.

    I have no doubt that a good percentage of those migrating into Europe are fleeing an awful situation. But I also have no doubt that not all of those are actually doing so because they are genuine asylum seekers. And there are far too many who are using the situation to seek the financial support of western nations - and then only certain ones based on their perception of the generosity of individual welfare systems.

    All this virtue-signally and hand-wringing is just giving a legitimacy to economic migrants that they don't deserve.

    Stop all the hugging, get on with finger-printing, background-checking and, where necessary, forced repatriation.

    Then we can identify and support those who have fled genuine persecution and have the right to claim asylum under international law and put an end to all of this.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    SPLITTER!!!!!

    HOW are we to use our two votes, one for a constituency MSP and one for a list candidate, at the Holyrood election in May?

    As an SNP member, I have been told by Nicola Sturgeon to use both for our party but I don’t intend to obey.

    As it seems certain the SNP will get back into power on constituency seats alone, I am not going to waste that second vote.

    I am not a nationalist, I am a socialist. I am also seeking a second referendum when the time is right.

    So, while going SNP with my constituency vote, I am looking for a socialist-independence home for my second one. I have found it in new Left organisation RISE – unambiguously socialist and committed to seeking a mandate for a second referendum.



    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/jim-sillars-believe-independence-believe-7232528#cScFJBdkq2ATiygS.99

    LOL, Tory grasping at straws from tax exile. ONE left winger giving second vote to some idiots, keep panicking.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: Ed Miliband would have done better in 2015 if he'd agreed to a "progressive alliance" with the SNP, says @NicolaSturgeon. Well, it's a view.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:


    Erm, no. It affected us badly because we had a very large financial sector. Canada and Australia do not. Financial regulation had nothing to do with it, and despite the nostalgia on here, the Bank of England as sole regulator had been unable to prevent, to name but three, BCCI, Barings, or the secondary or fringe banking crisis. This is not to defend the FSA; merely to say its actions or inactions were largely irrelevant in the face of the global economic meltdown.

    The point about Brown's silly remarks is of course unfortunately unanswerable.
    Didn't stop Brown trying to re-write history:

    Brown has talked specifically about the end of Tory boom and bust, but to suggest, as he did in the Mail interview, that it was always the mantra seems faintly ludicrous to anyone with an internet connection and the inclination to trawl through his public statements and speeches.....

    But Brown's claim to the Mail just doesn't stand up. There have just been too many memorable references to the end of boom and bust - without any mention of Tory.


    http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck+no+more+boom+and+bust/2564157.html
    Anyone who claims to have abolished the business cycle is riding for a fall.
    The degree to which the business cycle had the slightest connection to the global financial meltdown has yet to be established.
    But the degree to which it ignoring it created the British structural deficit is bleedin' obvious.

    As a Tory, one of my major worries about the 'Labour crashed the economy' is that it is a blunt tool - it only needs public perceptions to be changed (by, for example, a film - any ideas?) for the capital to be lost. 'Labour only know how to spend - and they crashed the economy' might have that added nuance. Luckily, electing an unreconstituted 70s public spender in the form of Corbo probably means the meme has legs for another 10 years.

    Mr Mortimer, rather than obsessing over whether or not labour trashed the conomy the Tories should concentrate on being a good government. Stop smearing and dredging up history and concentrate on what you were elected to do. As you correctly point out Corbyn is as bad, but that reflects very poorly on Osborne at the same time.



  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :wink:

    I'm genuinely perplexed at his position on Calais. It's France FFS.

    He couldn't manage 15 sides of A4?

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says he's read "some but not all" of Margaret Beckett's 15-page report into why Labour lost last year https://t.co/GyjwaQiWku

    Why bother when he knows that it's a load of nonsense.
  • CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    edited 2016 24

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's latest pitch to the British electorate:

    “The Falkland Islands should be handed back to Argentina as part of a “power-sharing” deal, Jeremy Corbyn has told South American diplomats.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/12117755/Jeremy-Corbyn-wants-a-Northern-Ireland-style-power-sharing-deal-for-the-Falklands.html

    It shows how little he understands the history. You can't hand something back to someone who never had it in the past. You are simply giving it away.
    The Left have their own history of the world, in which everything Britain did in the past was bad and everything bad in today's world is Britain's fault. In this history, Argentina has always existed and the evil British Empire came along one day and stole from Argentina the Falkland Islands (renaming them from Malvinas also). Of course in the real history Argentina didn't even exist when Britain annexed an uninhabited group of nameless islands which were otherwise claimed by that other great European empire of the time - Spain. And of course Argentina is nothing more than a colony of a that European empire, created by displacing/killing of the natives... this simply was not the case wrt Britain & the Falklands.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's latest pitch to the British electorate:

    “The Falkland Islands should be handed back to Argentina as part of a “power-sharing” deal, Jeremy Corbyn has told South American diplomats.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/12117755/Jeremy-Corbyn-wants-a-Northern-Ireland-style-power-sharing-deal-for-the-Falklands.html

    It shows how little he understands the history. You can't hand something back to someone who never had it in the past. You are simply giving it away.
    I suspect he just assumes their claim is based upon being nearest, when IIRC is based on being Spain's successor state in the region, which means even to them their claim is shakier than those hear who support them think (if a little stronger than the Spanish claim to Gibraltar). His comparison is also nonsense because the people of NI are divided on who should run the place, and the people of the Falklands are not. But with all the far left or right, it's people who are the problem, people who should recognise their should vote for things but never do.

    I asked yesterday, how many communist parties have been elected to government and not become oppressive or dictatorial? There are a few, I think.

  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    :wink:

    I'm genuinely perplexed at his position on Calais. It's France FFS.

    He couldn't manage 15 sides of A4?

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Jeremy Corbyn says he's read "some but not all" of Margaret Beckett's 15-page report into why Labour lost last year https://t.co/GyjwaQiWku

    Why bother when he knows that it's a load of nonsense.
    Errh, the ferry was heading for Dover.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Not better in Scotland :wink:
    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Ed Miliband would have done better in 2015 if he'd agreed to a "progressive alliance" with the SNP, says @NicolaSturgeon. Well, it's a view.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: Nicola Sturgeon refuses to back Alex Salmond's call for Donald Trump to be banned from the UK. #marr
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    Nice to know.....

    THE SNP's shadow leader of the House of Commons says he and most of the party's 115,000 members are “relatively relaxed” about not seeking a mandate for an independence referendum in May.

    Despite many activists wanting a swift second vote, Pete Wishart, one of the party's most senior MPs and chair of the Commons’ Scottish Affairs Select Committee, said the coming Holyrood election would be about good governance, not the constitution.

    The No vote in 2014 was “decisive” and should be respected, he told the Sunday Herald....

    “We’ve had that referendum, we got a decisive result, and we said that would be a once in a generation referendum.


    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14226379.Wishart__I_m__quot_relaxed_quot__about_no_manifesto_commitment_on_Indyref2/

    That's absolutely true, of course, but it's the first time I can remember an SNP MP saying it. Since they are forbidden to disagree with SNP policy, the assumption is that this line was sanctioned by the Leader herself.

    Which once more raises the question of why Unionists won't say they won decisively. Their refusal to do so over the last 15 months has been unhelpful.
    oooooooH we have an expert who knows what SNP MP's are and are not allowed to do.
    You cretinous halfwit he is giving his opinion , we are not talking about the Tory party here we are talking about real politicians, human beings not party robots whipped into shape. Stick to what you know about because it is certainly not the SNP or Scottish politics.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    I hope it provides some solutions to their problems at least.mall very to trash without offering solutions.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's latest pitch to the British electorate:

    “The Falkland Islands should be handed back to Argentina as part of a “power-sharing” deal, Jeremy Corbyn has told South American diplomats.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/12117755/Jeremy-Corbyn-wants-a-Northern-Ireland-style-power-sharing-deal-for-the-Falklands.html

    It shows how little he understands the history. You can't hand something back to someone who never had it in the past. You are simply giving it away.
    I believe they had it (not counting Falklands War) for all of about six months from memory.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,354
    edited 2016 24
    Looking tricky for England this. Cook gone and both Root and Taylor looking hyperactive and risky.

    Now a review. Yikes.

    Whew. Still needs to calm down though.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Btw if watching Dele Ali play football doesn't warm your heart you have my sympathy.

    It was a good goal, but really salvaging a very poor Kane cross.

    Leicester City have been top of the league for 34 days since Nov 21, 2015. One more than Spurs have been since 1992.

    Are you entertained...?

    I have been pointing out for some time that Leicester have been underpriced. Most of the value has gone, but top 4 seems nailed on with 15 games to go, and a 10 point (and goal difference) gap to 5th place. Still 1.55 on Betfair and 12 to win the league.

    We'll know a lot more after Leicester's next three games. If they get through them with five points or more they will be seen as serious title challengers. As Spurs showed in the Cup match, though, the back-up is not that hot. Injuries could yet bite. But it would be brilliant of they could hold on and finish second to Spurs.

    Our reserves were poor this week, but played very well at WHL before conceeding the penalty that led to the replay. Leicester have taken 4 points off Spurs in the League this season and will finish above them.

    Significantly both Vardy and Mahrez had great games yesterday. Sure the next 3 games (Liv H, ManC A, Ars A) will be interesting, but all of those teams (and Spurs) are in multiple competitions. Liverpool have a League Cup semi-final and a home FA cup tie against West Ham before they come to Leicester on the 2nd. Draws against each of the next 3 would keep Leicester right up there. We have a good run of fixtures in March/April too. There is a bit of betting value left.
    So what price will you offer Spurs finishing above Leicester?

    I think that I have enough on this and related markets. The Betfair exchange has better odds for each of winner, top 2, top 3 and top 4 for Spurs, who trail Leicester by 5 points with 15 games to go.

    I think that shows some value for Leicester.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    malcolmg said:

    Nice to know.....

    THE SNP's shadow leader of the House of Commons says he and most of the party's 115,000 members are “relatively relaxed” about not seeking a mandate for an independence referendum in May.

    Despite many activists wanting a swift second vote, Pete Wishart, one of the party's most senior MPs and chair of the Commons’ Scottish Affairs Select Committee, said the coming Holyrood election would be about good governance, not the constitution.

    The No vote in 2014 was “decisive” and should be respected, he told the Sunday Herald....

    “We’ve had that referendum, we got a decisive result, and we said that would be a once in a generation referendum.


    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14226379.Wishart__I_m__quot_relaxed_quot__about_no_manifesto_commitment_on_Indyref2/

    That's absolutely true, of course, but it's the first time I can remember an SNP MP saying it. Since they are forbidden to disagree with SNP policy, the assumption is that this line was sanctioned by the Leader herself.

    Which once more raises the question of why Unionists won't say they won decisively. Their refusal to do so over the last 15 months has been unhelpful.
    oooooooH we have an expert who knows what SNP MP's are and are not allowed to do.
    You cretinous halfwit he is giving his opinion , we are not talking about the Tory party here we are talking about real politicians, human beings not party robots whipped into shape. Stick to what you know about because it is certainly not the SNP or Scottish politics.
    Ah Malky, did you see the news reports yesterday regarding a troughing Westminster fat cat politician setting up an unlimited company for tax avoidance purposes?

    Alec Salmond is his name.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood constituency, Panelbase): SNP 50%, Lab 21%, Con 17%, Lib Dem 6%.

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood, regional list): SNP 48%, Lab 19%, Con 17%, Lib Dems 7%, Greens 5%.

    Cons agonisingly close to being second in Scotland.

    Oh my word
    Look a very distant third to me , their usual place just ahead of the odious Libdems.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:


    Erm, no. It affected us badly because we had a very large financial sector. Canada and A...

    The point about Brown's silly remarks is of course unfortunately unanswerable.
    Didn't stop Brown trying to re-write history:

    Brown has talked specifically about the end of Tory boom and bust, but to suggest, as he did in the Mail interview, that it was always the mantra seems faintly ludicrous to anyone with an internet connection and the inclination to trawl through his public statements and speeches.....

    But Brown's claim to the Mail just doesn't stand up. There have just been too many memorable references to the end of boom and bust - without any mention of Tory.


    http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck+no+more+boom+and+bust/2564157.html
    Anyone who claims to have abolished the business cycle is riding for a fall.
    The degree to which the business cycle had the slightest connection to the global financial meltdown has yet to be established.
    But the degree to which it ignoring it created the British structural deficit is bleedin' obvious.

    As a Tory, one of my major worries about the 'Labour crashed the economy' is that it is a blunt tool - it only needs public perceptions to be changed (by, for example, a film - any ideas?) for the capital to be lost. 'Labour only know how to spend - and they crashed the economy' might have that added nuance. Luckily, electing an unreconstituted 70s public spender in the form of Corbo probably means the meme has legs for another 10 years.

    Mr Mortimer, rather than obsessing over whether or not labour trashed the conomy the Tories should concentrate on being a good government. Stop smearing and dredging up history and concentrate on what you were elected to do. As you correctly point out Corbyn is as bad, but that reflects very poorly on Osborne at the same time.



    With all due respect, you have to base judgements on governments, and especially chancellors, on what they were given to start with.

    Brown was given a booming economy, and stuck to Ken Clarke's spending plans for a couple of years. As soon as he enacted his own policy, the structural deficit and public spending largesse went berserk.

    Has anyone been dealt a worse hand than Osborne? Perhaps Geoffrey Howe.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JohnRentoul: Leader's speech to Labour conference to be moved to last day: @MLeftly @IndyOnSunday https://t.co/RoqwvUC0CG https://t.co/1BSzNROMrs
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    malcolmg said:

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood constituency, Panelbase): SNP 50%, Lab 21%, Con 17%, Lib Dem 6%.

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood, regional list): SNP 48%, Lab 19%, Con 17%, Lib Dems 7%, Greens 5%.

    Cons agonisingly close to being second in Scotland.

    Oh my word
    Look a very distant third to me , their usual place just ahead of the odious Libdems.
    Those LDs seem like they poll better in Scotland than England, which doesn't seem right.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2016 24
    Ken's intv attempts to diminish Stalins horrors by equating them with Vietnam

    And claims he'd have won three elections like Tony if he'd been leader. http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/homeV2/article1659817.ece
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164
    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: Leader's speech to Labour conference to be moved to last day: @MLeftly @IndyOnSunday https://t.co/RoqwvUC0CG https://t.co/1BSzNROMrs

    Very astute.

    That is, if the point of the exercise is to cement his own authority and rule over the party. Prevents him being overshadowed by any other performer at Conference.

    From a vote winning perspective, it is a dud. Plus ca change.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Ed Miliband would have done better in 2015 if he'd agreed to a "progressive alliance" with the SNP, says @NicolaSturgeon. Well, it's a view.

    Would have played straight into Crosby's hands. It might have pushed Labour's vote share in NE England further down. Progressive alliance, nice meaningless turn of phrase, but perhaps too toxic to work.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Independent reporting that the Great opposition leaders speech to be moved to end of conference. This is to avoid it being picked over in the news cycle and media outlets picking up comments from their MPs. They hope all MPs would have left and the news cycle has moved on. It is likely to be approved by NEC however many are horrified at the move.

    It's bad when Even Labour know they have to hide their leader from any scrutiny.

    Before lefties start pointing out the others have their speeches at or towards the end it should be remembered they always have had and are not moving them to avoid the public and media

    Labour = frit
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:


    Erm, no. It affected us badly because we had a very large financial sector. Canada and A...

    The point about Brown's silly remarks is of course unfortunately unanswerable.
    Didn't stop Brown trying to re-write history:

    Brown has talked specifically about the end of Tory boom and bust, but to suggest, as he did in the Mail interview, that it was always the mantra seems faintly ludicrous to anyone with an internet connection and the inclination to trawl through his public statements and speeches.....

    But Brown's claim to the Mail just doesn't stand up. There have just been too many memorable references to the end of boom and bust - without any mention of Tory.


    http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/domestic_politics/factcheck+no+more+boom+and+bust/2564157.html
    Anyone who claims to have abolished the business cycle is riding for a fall.
    The degree to which the business cycle had the slightest connection to the global financial meltdown has yet to be established.
    But the degree to which it ignoring it created the British structural deficit is bleedin' obvious.

    As a Tory, one of my major worries about the 'Labour crashed the economy' is that it is a blunt tool - it only needs public perceptions to be changed (by, for example, a film - any ideas?) for the capital to be lost. 'Labour only know how to spend - and they crashed the economy' might have that added nuance. Luckily, electing an unreconstituted 70s public spender in the form of Corbo probably means the meme has legs for another 10 years.

    Mr Mortimer, rather than obsessing over whether or not labour trashed the conomy the Tories should concentrate on being a good government. Stop smearing and dredging up history and concentrate on what you were elected to do. As you correctly point out Corbyn is as bad, but that reflects very poorly on Osborne at the same time.



    With all due respect, you have to base judgements on governments, and especially chancellors, on what they were given to start with.

    Brown was given a booming economy, and stuck to Ken Clarke's spending plans for a couple of years. As soon as he enacted his own policy, the structural deficit and public spending largesse went berserk.

    Has anyone been dealt a worse hand than Osborne? Perhaps Geoffrey Howe.

    You make fair points, but by continually referring back to Brown you appear to be diverting attention from Osborne. He'll be judged on what he does not what Brown did.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood constituency, Panelbase): SNP 50%, Lab 21%, Con 17%, Lib Dem 6%.

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood, regional list): SNP 48%, Lab 19%, Con 17%, Lib Dems 7%, Greens 5%.

    Cons agonisingly close to being second in Scotland.

    Oh my word
    Look a very distant third to me , their usual place just ahead of the odious Libdems.
    Those LDs seem like they poll better in Scotland than England, which doesn't seem right.
    The Lib Dems are around 7% in England too.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,883
    Last time I looked, Northern Ireland was still part of the UK.

    Power-sharing with Pro-Argentines in the Falklands is impossible, because there aren't any.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,756
    watford30 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nice to know.....

    THE SNP's shadow leader of the House of Commons says he and most of the party's 115,000 members are “relatively relaxed” about not seeking a mandate for an independence referendum in May.

    Despite many activists wanting a swift second vote, Pete Wishart, one of the party's most senior MPs and chair of the Commons’ Scottish Affairs Select Committee, said the coming Holyrood election would be about good governance, not the constitution.

    The No vote in 2014 was “decisive” and should be respected, he told the Sunday Herald....

    “We’ve had that referendum, we got a decisive result, and we said that would be a once in a generation referendum.


    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14226379.Wishart__I_m__quot_relaxed_quot__about_no_manifesto_commitment_on_Indyref2/

    That's absolutely true, of course, but it's the first time I can remember an SNP MP saying it. Since they are forbidden to disagree with SNP policy, the assumption is that this line was sanctioned by the Leader herself.

    Which once more raises the question of why Unionists won't say they won decisively. Their refusal to do so over the last 15 months has been unhelpful.
    oooooooH we have an expert who knows what SNP MP's are and are not allowed to do.
    You cretinous halfwit he is giving his opinion , we are not talking about the Tory party here we are talking about real politicians, human beings not party robots whipped into shape. Stick to what you know about because it is certainly not the SNP or Scottish politics.
    Ah Malky, did you see the news reports yesterday regarding a troughing Westminster fat cat politician setting up an unlimited company for tax avoidance purposes?

    Alec Salmond is his name.
    Usual Tory lies from you , it is a limited company and pays tax you moron. Invest your JSA on some education.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,354
    malcolmg said:

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood constituency, Panelbase): SNP 50%, Lab 21%, Con 17%, Lib Dem 6%.

    @gsoh31 Scottish VI (Holyrood, regional list): SNP 48%, Lab 19%, Con 17%, Lib Dems 7%, Greens 5%.

    Cons agonisingly close to being second in Scotland.

    Oh my word
    Look a very distant third to me , their usual place just ahead of the odious Libdems.
    The Tories in Scotland are on the up Malcolm and SLAB are in meltdown. There was a very telling piece on R4 yesterday with buoyant SNP canvassers in Joanne Lamont's seat, Labour canvassers sounding depressed and Ruth Davidson sounding positive.

    Will it be enough for them to switch places? Still seems unlikely to me but some elements of the SNP are trying to promote RISE as a Labour alternative committed to independence. If they do bleed some more Labour supporters away it will get even closer. If Davidson can squeeze the Lib Dem and Labour unionist vote she just might do it. I think its at 3/1, maybe 4/1 bet. Any more than that and I am on.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Re Farron, what sort of suicide pact is he wishing for here?

    Is he hoping to be just far enough way to survive the blast?

    Farron is no Corbynista, but there is some common ground between LDs and Labour. In particular the LD vote goes up when the Labour vote goes up too. Their electoral fortunes have been coupled for some decades.

    Talks between the parties on some sort of pact are not going to get very far, but are a sign of relations thawing and an interesting development.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Mortimer said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: Leader's speech to Labour conference to be moved to last day: @MLeftly @IndyOnSunday https://t.co/RoqwvUC0CG https://t.co/1BSzNROMrs

    Very astute.

    That is, if the point of the exercise is to cement his own authority and rule over the party. Prevents him being overshadowed by any other performer at Conference.

    From a vote winning perspective, it is a dud. Plus ca change.
    Why is it a dud?

    Works well at Tory Conference to have the leaders speech the closing act. In the big picture it may be moot but I don't see it being a dud.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Labour are fecked

    THE comedian Eddie Izzard is being touted by Labour moderates as their secret weapon in the battle to wrest control of the party back from Jeremy Corbyn and his hard-left supporters.

    Izzard, 53, is a long-standing Labour activist and will be approached by senior MPs to stand for the ruling national executive committee (NEC) this year.

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/homeV2/article1659822.ece

    Labour are fucked until the membership - generally nicely off, it seems, and actually pretty well looked after by the Tories - start to look beyond posturing and self-congratulation to helping those that the Labour party is supposed to help. A coherent, moderate message that explains why it is in everyone's interests to protect the poorest and most vulnerable while encouraging aspiration, helping business and recognising the importance of national identity is where Labour needs to get to. But it is going to take a long, long time from here. The comfort zone - literally and metaphorically - is a lot more attractive to the members of the Stupid Party.

    Good morning all.

    Firstly, those messages are easily co-opted by the Conservatives. Some would say they already have been.

    Secondly, those of an ideologically zealous nature are not turned on by what are petite-bourgeois concerns. Where's the seizing of the means of production? Where's the bit where the banksters are put up against a wall and shot?

    Thirdly, for the all the talk about the lack of women at the top of the Labour party, it's inaccurate; Labour are desperately, tragically short of testicles. A party of eunuchs led by a cabal of idiots is not particularly attractive to the electorate.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: "The case for Scotland as a strong independent country was never based on oil," says Nicla Sturgeon. https://t.co/5usqU6BHRn
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: Leader's speech to Labour conference to be moved to last day: @MLeftly @IndyOnSunday https://t.co/RoqwvUC0CG https://t.co/1BSzNROMrs

    Is that quote from an NEC document correct? How needless! No need to explain it, make it seem like they're running scared of the speech being picked apart, just say it makes more sense to close the conference with the speech of the leader.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826


    You make fair points, but by continually referring back to Brown you appear to be diverting attention from Osborne. He'll be judged on what he does not what Brown did.

    What he has done is cut the deficit and improve the structural position year after year.

    How many other Chancellor's have done the same or as well as that?
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    malcolmg said:

    watford30 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nice to know.....

    THE SNP's shadow leader of the House of Commons says he and most of the party's 115,000 members are “relatively relaxed” about not seeking a mandate for an independence referendum in May.

    Despite many activists wanting a swift second vote, Pete Wishart, one of the party's most senior MPs and chair of the Commons’ Scottish Affairs Select Committee, said the coming Holyrood election would be about good governance, not the constitution.

    The No vote in 2014 was “decisive” and should be respected, he told the Sunday Herald....

    “We’ve had that referendum, we got a decisive result, and we said that would be a once in a generation referendum.


    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14226379.Wishart__I_m__quot_relaxed_quot__about_no_manifesto_commitment_on_Indyref2/

    That's absolutely true, of course, but it's the first time I can remember an SNP MP saying it. Since they are forbidden to disagree with SNP policy, the assumption is that this line was sanctioned by the Leader herself.

    Which once more raises the question of why Unionists won't say they won decisively. Their refusal to do so over the last 15 months has been unhelpful.
    oooooooH we have an expert who knows what SNP MP's are and are not allowed to do.
    You cretinous halfwit he is giving his opinion , we are not talking about the Tory party here we are talking about real politicians, human beings not party robots whipped into shape. Stick to what you know about because it is certainly not the SNP or Scottish politics.
    Ah Malky, did you see the news reports yesterday regarding a troughing Westminster fat cat politician setting up an unlimited company for tax avoidance purposes?

    Alec Salmond is his name.
    Usual Tory lies from you , it is a limited company and pays tax you moron. Invest your JSA on some education.
    Back in reality, it's an unlimited company, so doesn't have to publish accounts. And Eck can avoid higher rate income tax.

    http://www.scottishfinancialnews.com/4211/salmond-sets-up-private-firm-to-handle-publishing-cash/

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13211312.Alex_Salmond_refutes_lack_of_transparency_claim_as_he_launches_company_to_take_publishing_earnings/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755
    Sean_F said:

    Last time I looked, Northern Ireland was still part of the UK.

    Power-sharing with Pro-Argentines in the Falklands is impossible, because there aren't any.

    That could well be strictly true:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_referendum,_2013

    You'd have to ask the 3 "No" voters, but they might be in favour of true independence rather than flying the flag of Argentina.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    edited 2016 24
    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: "The case for Scotland as a strong independent country was never based on oil," says Nicla Sturgeon. https://t.co/5usqU6BHRn

    I believe the key words in the sentence are 'strong' and 'based', and the key omission is around timescale. Strong does not just mean economically strong, though it can, and of course Scotland could be strong in many senses when independent in ways which are not economic, and so not based on oil, and even if we do mean economically and many presumptions were based on the oil, without it they could no doubt come up with some new plan or re-balancing to be economically strong without it, in time.

    An excellent politician's statement. It will enrage opponents as a lie, but is crafted in such a way it can be defended because it is vague. She will no doubt claim the case was enhanced by oil, but not based on it. For one, even if Scotland were or is to be hit economically core nationalists would still say independence was the preferred option (though a trickier transition than they would like), as for them the case is not economic or based on oil.
This discussion has been closed.